The perils of being fat, female and French

Too solid flesh · Post by **Too solid flesh** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:05 pm

Season's greetings to all.

There is an interesting piece about attitudes to female fatness in France on the BBC website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25215641

jw · Post by jw » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:28 pm

Very interesting, Too Solid Flesh -- so it's not just a moderate traditional way of eating but also a rigidly weight-conscious culture that leads to the slim French silhouette, according to this! I like the moderate traditional way of eating, which No S replicates -- not sure I like the other bit so much.

Over the holidays, I watched a film with Queen Latifah, Last Holiday. Not a great film, but she is a great attitude role model for all of us weight-troubled ladies: she owns every pound and she dresses up and charms everyone in sight, at whatever weight she is! My New Year's resolution is learn to be a little fabulous at the same time I am diligently building moderate habits . . . no need to LOOK moderate!

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:40 pm

I certainly can't speak much to French society, but I will comment on one question I had while reading the article:

What kind of "careers" are we talking about that you have to be skinny (and well-dressed) to get in France? Because the article seemed to be referring to business, if I read correctly. And that is the same EVERYWHERE in the world (for women), not just France. Perhaps France really is "worse" than other countries that way, but I'm skeptical. If I'm wrong, convince me.

jw · Post by jw » Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:02 pm

good point, automated -- we are all judged by our weight and appearance.

I thought it was interesting that the self-employed Parisian gallery owner found it freeing to be fat. Almost like tyrannical convention = slim, so unconventional free spirits get to be fat! If I am not careful, I could warm to that idea!

I have never lived in France either -- I lived for 8 years near the border on the German side of Alsace, though. Home of fabulous restaurants and vineyards and whipped cream in the coffee, in the gravy, on the desserts. . . No one was overweight. Neither was I. Those were the days!

maryashley · Post by **maryashley** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:57 pm

Thank you for sharing. I can't read that without sadly yearning for the ideal French waif body.. But it also makes me thankful for living in a country where there ARE other images slowly creeping into advertising and other media. How oppressive to think your worth is entirely tied to your image.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:22 pm

I have read that heavier people don't feel as free to appear in public in French cities, so even though they occur (to a much smaller degree than here), you don't see them as much.

I have also read that English women are actually happier with their bodies than French women, though their average weight is higher. They think French women worry way too much about being thin.

I have a friend who traveled to France with a French friend (who does not have a thin physique). Her impression was that the cities had a great number of slim women, but she remembers them being rather young. Older women and definitely less urban women were not svelte, though not obese, either.

I've read that the average weight in France is increasing, thought to be because of the new habit of snacking from non-French influences. I predict a lot of misery because I doubt the ideal will change, but the appeal of the freedom of eating, along with less emphasis the value on quality food and preparation, will prove hard to resist, much as the paradox exists here. In the end, eating JUST to be thin isn't a very effective motivation on its own. Most people are going to have to feel they are getting enough pleasure from their intake to remain consistent, and that often involves some molding of attitudes as well as changes in habit.

Interestingly, I don't remember the author of French Kids Eat Everything saying much about her husband's French family emphasizing the importance of its women being slim. There was much more talk of keeping eating meal-based, not ruining the appetite by snacking, and of savoring a variety of tastes and textures at meals. Pleasure was an important goal of eating, though it was not associated with excess.

The article was interesting, but all anecdotal, though that doesn't make it wrong. But I'd like to see some stats on women and weight in hiring practices in France.

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:59 pm

I have a normal BMI, my doctors are happy with my weight, I am still wearing the same size clothes I did 10 years ago, etc. etc. But no one would ever accuse me of being French thin. And quite frankly, at the age of 49 I really don't want to be that thin. Gravity is not the older woman's friend. Sometimes, a little (ahem) substance helps.

Over43 · Post by **Over43** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:46 am

Blithe Morning wrote:I have a normal BMI, my doctors are happy with my weight, I am still wearing the same size clothes I did 10 years ago, etc. etc. But no one would ever accuse me of being French thin. And quite frankly, at the age of 49 I really don't want to be that thin. Gravity is not the older woman's friend. Sometimes, a little (ahem) substance helps.[/quot

It's not a guy's friend. And being 49, for a bit longer, I understand the importance of maintaining muscle mass, but not overdoing it. For about the last 15 years I have tried to keep a happy medium between strength training and some type of "conditioning" work. So, I think, the need to be "slender" is good, just not Nichole Richie slender.

resident0063 · Post by **resident0063** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:49 pm

I think society has to enforce this. Being skinny unless you have a great metabolism can be miserable. Normal with good eating rules fine. Kate Moss miserable.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:21 pm

jw wrote:Very interesting, Too Solid Flesh -- so it's not just a moderate traditional way of eating but also a rigidly weight-conscious culture that leads to the slim French silhouette, according to this! I like the moderate traditional way of eating, which No S replicates -- not sure I like the other bit so much.

Over the holidays, I watched a film with Queen Latifah, Last Holiday. Not a great film, but she is a great attitude role model for all of us weight-troubled ladies: she owns every pound and she dresses up and charms everyone in sight, at whatever weight she is! My New Year's resolution is learn to be a little fabulous at the same time I am diligently building moderate habits . . . no need to LOOK moderate!

I love that movie! It's so positive, and, even though she's a larger lady, doesn't focus on her size.

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:36 pm

jw wrote: Queen Latifah... she is a great attitude role model for all of us weight-troubled ladies:
she owns every pound and she dresses up and charms everyone in sight, at whatever weight she is!

Very true .... however,
very few "fat" or "weight-troubled" ladies have bodies like Queen Latifah.

Look at her.

Although Queen Latifah is larger than the average actress,
with a genetically curvy body,
and MIGHT even have a BMI near the border of Obesity,
she's not really a "fat" woman, and her body is not truly obese.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:44 pm

I had to look up Queen Latifah after the last couple of posts. That woman is gorgeous! And curvy! And she looks fit and strong. Makes me wonder what her BMI actually is.

jw · Post by jw » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:47 pm

My point was more, wouldn't it be great if we could see ourselves as worth dressing up and strutting our stuff at whatever weight we are, instead of waiting until we hit some ideal number. And looks can be deceptive -- I am both big and tall and even though I am not round, I am certainly in the obese range. My guess is this actress is, too -- though she has definitely slimmed down some since that film was made. Watching her always makes me feel that fabulous is within reach now, not later!

Edit: I looked her up for you, auto -- she is 5 ft 9.6 inches and weighs 209 lbs, for a BMI of 30.3. No wonder I can identify with her -- I am 5' 9" and weigh 211 lbs!

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:50 pm

jw wrote:she is 5 ft 9.6 inches and weighs 209 lbs, for a BMI of 30.3.

EXACTLY what I thought myself.

She is a very curvy and muscular, large female,
with a BMI which barely reaches the BORDER of obesity.
NOT what most would term a truly "fat" person.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:44 am

jw wrote:My point was more, worth dressing up and strutting our stuff at whatever weight we are, instead of waiting until we hit some ideal number.

Watching her always makes me feel that fabulous is within reach now, not later!

That's beautiful, I'm delighted that there are people like her out there. Strut your stuff now