Food Journals.....

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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NoSnacker
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Food Journals.....

Post by NoSnacker » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:31 am

Hi everyone, I wanted to take a survey on how many of you use a food journal? Do you find it helpful? If you don't, why not?

I'm contemplating starting one on my daily check in but worried it might feel like I'm dieting again and rebellion might set in :)
Age 56: SBMI=30.6 (12/1/13) CBMI 28.9 (2/2/14) GBMI-24.8

Healthiermum
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Post by Healthiermum » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:02 am

I don't. The reason I don't is because of what you mentioned I don't want it to feel too diety plus I'm concerned that if I write down what I eat i will start calorie counting again

jw
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Post by jw » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:00 pm

No, I don't -- one of the things I like most about No S is you don't have to spend the whole time thinking about food and eating. I am not worried about the contents of my meals -- they are fresh, healthful foods most of the time, I already thought about them once when I cooked them and again when I ate them. Writing it all down is overkill for me.

But people who are doing well do record their meals here. If it helps you or motivates you, why not?
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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BrightAngel
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Post by BrightAngel » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:18 pm

I use a computer food journal every day,
and have done so consistently for the past 9 years
NO MATTER WHAT FOOD PLAN -- including No S --- that I'm on (or not on :oops: ).

This keeps me aware of the caloric density of the food I eat,
and helps me make appropriate choices from all varieties of foods.
Writing everything down --- EVEN on S days or days totally off ANY plan --
allows me to Acknowledge my behavior, Accept it and move on.

It helps me avoid Denial, which is a big issue for most people.
THIS is my most important tool and
it's the basic reason for my personal dieting and maintenance success.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

herbsgirl
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Post by herbsgirl » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:56 pm

I agree with bright angel. Writing down every single morsel we put in our mouth really helps to stay accountable

I went to a dietician before and this was usually one if the first things she would have me do.
SW 218.2 10-14-13
1 mo 193.4
2 mo 178.8
3 mo 162.8
4 mo 151.4
5 mo 146.2
72 lbs lost in 19 wks 5' 6.5" 31 years old BMI 23.1
counting bites go to: countyourbites . blogspot . com

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:33 am

No, I don't and haven't for all my four years here. But I have rather routine meals -similar portions of protein, starches, fats and freggies, and I tend to stick to my three meals a day, so that does the counting for me. That and trying to eat so that I'm actually hungry for my next meal.

Millions and millions of slim French and Italians don't record their food, nor how many calories are in them, nor do they know how much they weigh. They do eat mostly meals, and moderate portions.

Snacking is spreading there, and apparently, their weight is climbing. Hope they get the hint soon.

Why not browse through the check-in threads and see who has been tracking for two years or more, and see how they're doing? Because you don't really know if something has really worked and stuck until it's lasted that long. IMHO.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:24 am

Well, I feel obligated to answer, but I am sheepish about my journal. I truly like keeping track, so it's not a burden to me right now. And I know a lot of people don't like it, so I would never recommend or push it on others. Plus, l've only been at this habit for 4 and a half months, so my method is far from tried and true. I took heart with BrightAngel's reply about how long she has kept her journal.

But I like and it works for me right now. Nothing sacred about it, though. Whatever works. I think it's a lot like the weighing thing--some people like to weigh frequently; others find weighing counterproductive. Probably the same with journaling--some like it, others find it counterproductive.
Last edited by automatedeating on Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

osoniye
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Post by osoniye » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:29 am

Thanks for raising this question, NoSnacker.
I am not currently keeping a food journal, but I know that the times in which I am actually losing weight on NoS, are the times in which I have kept a journal. When I do, I use a spreadsheet in Excel which shows the meals going across and the days going down, 1 month per sheet. I think one of the advantages of NoS is seeing a whole meal on a plate. While theoretically one could eat a plate of salty snack foods on an N day and be fine, actually seeing it all there at once gives a person a chance to consider if that is really the best way to eat.
So then with the journal, I can also look at my day as a whole and see the balance or imbalance of the day. This also helps with the whole month, where I can see what I was doing on my S days and whose house I was at when I had too much of a wild S day, etc. It provides sort of a view from a lens that gradually pulls back and puts more and more into focus at a time and gives the bigger picture.
Because the one month per sheet gives it to me all at once, I don't think I would benefit as much from keeping it in a check-in thread, as that would give the information more in a straight line. YMMV.
-Sonya
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:03 am

That is a great idea!

I still lose a flip phone, but for smart phones, it sounds like there are some easy-to-use apps. Convenience might make a convert of me, but so far, so good.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

clarinetgal
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Post by clarinetgal » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:40 am

I go back and forth. I find that when I journal consistently, I lose weight more quickly. The key, for me, is not getting too obsessed with it. I would definitely like to get to the point where I eat moderately and don't feel like I have to journal my food intake.

Diligence
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Post by Diligence » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:47 pm

I don't keep a food journal because it is not a concept that appeals to me.

Some questions you might ask yourself (no need to reply here):

What are you hoping to achieve by using a food journal? Do you think the diet mentality and rebellion against it would likely derail your success with No S? Do your goals outweigh your concerns? Is a trial period an option? If so, what would be the parameters of the trial? Would you end the trial early if it seemed that negative effects were creeping in before the end of the trial period?

MJ7910
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Post by MJ7910 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:34 am

Helenaz123 wrote:I don't. The reason I don't is because of what you mentioned I don't want it to feel too diety plus I'm concerned that if I write down what I eat i will start calorie counting again
this exactly for me! calorie counting was a prison for me and something i hope to never do again. it seems to have it's appeal for someone else and maybe they don't get obsessed with it. the problem is that i do and i know myself so i don't keep a food journal.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

osoniye
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Post by osoniye » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:55 am

oolala53 wrote: I do see that trying to help someone keep records and let go of their self-criticism, but rather just try to regard the journal as data, would be useful ... If people could just be rational about it- hey, here is when I'm overeating, I'll make efforts to reduce it while not expecting to get it right for a year or two, in the meantime, I'll respect myself and try to have fun in my life- oh, how much more progress could be made!
(That is a much conflated quote from oolala's check in page.)
That just kind of sums up how I think keeping a food journal worked for me. The journal provided real life data that I could work with, in seeing how I was eating, and then thinking how I might want things to be different.
Last edited by osoniye on Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
-Sonya
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".

Imogen Morley
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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:09 am

Ditto. I don't always post my meals here, but I do keep an Evernote food journal, and I record everything I eat, even on red days, even binges, purely as a means of collecting data. I find it empowering - it clearly shows that it is me and only me who is responsible for my eating habits.

germanherman
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Post by germanherman » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:32 am

My first run of No S i failed. I failed for two reasons:

1. I didn't knew how to eat right for me.
2. I felt the need to account everything i ate.

After i changed this two things it became easy.

One of the greatest successes of this diet is the freedom of my mind. I'm no longer thinking about what i eat, about it's calories or if the things are healthy. I made my peace with food, so there is no need to count it anymore.

The reason i had a journal were doubts. I had doubts regarding myself (will i succeed?) and also regarding this diet (can it work?). So my journal was my net, my parachute. Even if i would fail, or the diet wouldn't work, i had data to tweak ("eat less of X" or "eating around 500 kcals per meal for 1500 kcals a day" etc. ) It was just another rule, not only not necessary, but foremost another burden to carry.
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

Spend 15 Bucks for a Shovelglove + NoS-Diet= ;)

German by nature

Dale
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Post by Dale » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:33 pm

I keep a food journal on and off. It's on at the moment :) . I've heard good arguments for and against keeping a journal, but I'm just trying to do what works for me. (I'm not advocating it for anybody else).

One of my problems with dieting has been accepting just how LITTLE food I need, and calorie counting helps me keep track my intake. I could easily overeat, even on three meals a day, and especially on S days. (I don't mean overeat massively, but just a little more - enough to stop me losing when I'm trying to :) ).

I have to admit that I don't do purely No S, though. I've done a mixture of No S and calorie counting all along (with a flirtation with IF along the way too!) - if one system is getting difficult for me, I switch to the other, and I'm often doing both at once. When I'm calorie counting I only have a small deficit, as that seems to work best for me (it's easier for me to stick to, and it avoids me getting "diet-brain", or whatever you call the unhealthy thinking one can get with dieting).

If I feel rebellious about the journal, I can just stop and keep an eye on my portion size instead.

Zoid
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Post by Zoid » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:57 pm

I did track my calories last week using an app on my iPhone. I didn't alter my eating habits based on the calories consumed. I was mostly curious where I was naturally falling in the calorie range when eating only 3 plates a day.

I've been worried about whether I would really get the calorie deficit needed while no sing to lose weight. Guess what? I am actually eating less than I thought. It was good reassurance for me that this style of eating will help me lose the weight in the long run.
Don't let perfect get in the way of better
SAHM to 2 beautiful girls: S (4yo) & E (8m)

5'3" female, 34
SW: 196.0 - BMI: 34.7 - 2/15/21
CW: 191.5 - BMI: 33.9 - 3/31/21

Nicest of the Damned
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Post by Nicest of the Damned » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:03 pm

I don't, and one of the things that attracted me to No S was the fact that I wouldn't have to. I suck at keeping logs of things I do, and I hate doing it. I'm not an organized person. If I have to fight my lack of organization and my food cravings both at the same time, I'm not going to win.

For years, I thought my inability to keep a food journal would keep me from losing weight. I'm thrilled that I have found a diet where I don't have to force myself to try to food journal.

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NoSnacker
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Post by NoSnacker » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:35 am

Thanks everyone...

When I think of journalling I can feel the rebellion rise up in me so I better put it off for now.

I did receive a great spreadsheet to use when the desire to keep one is stronger than the desire not to.

Everyone's success is contingent on each of our own path that we feeling comfortable living with.

Have a great one!!!

p.s. I think keeping my habitcal on here is pretty much "just enough" for me.
Age 56: SBMI=30.6 (12/1/13) CBMI 28.9 (2/2/14) GBMI-24.8

Nicest of the Damned
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Post by Nicest of the Damned » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:40 pm

If you're feeling rebellion rise up in you at the thought of food journaling, definitely don't do it. Save your willpower for actually eating less.

Food journaling is a tool. Some people find it helpful for losing weight. Others find it too difficult or annoying to use. Some people love cast-iron skillets. Other people (like me) find their weight and the care they require makes them not worth it. If the tools you're using make the job more difficult and less pleasant, you should use different tools, no matter what other people think of the tools in question. You don't have to use cast iron pans to cook, and you don't have to food journal to eat a sensible diet.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:21 pm

Food journaling CAN help people automatically enlist their willpower more automatically, but it isn't a guarantee.

I think what is also even more important is to save extra measures for later. People shouldn't use them until they're sure what they're doing isn't working. Reinhard terms it from the computer program world: premature optimization. It comes from diet head's insistence that this about getting to the ideal weight as fast as possible and then trying to figure out how to stay there. How many times has "just getting the weight off first" failed? It does work for some people when all systems are go, but that isn't the situation for most people. I believe even people here who have instituted mods such as monitoring food intake would admit that the mod probably not have worked if they had tried to impose it from the beginning. The foundation had already been laid.

It's similar one of the reasons jumping to low food intake and having weight loss be the goal can backfire. When it stops working or becomes cumbersome or unsatisfying, as it often does, what do you do? rock and a hard place.

If you start journaling now and it turns out not to have the effect that you want, then what?

Just in case you need more reinforcement for staying with things as is in this, week 5 of your reboot. (To emphasize how early it is!)
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Nicest of the Damned
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Post by Nicest of the Damned » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:54 am

oolala53 wrote:Food journaling CAN help people automatically enlist their willpower more automatically, but it isn't a guarantee.
For some people. If you have to grit your teeth to make yourself keep a food journal, you probably aren't one of them. Or if you're like me and would keep forgetting to do it, you probably aren't one of them.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:46 am

Agreed! Never say never, but I can't really envision what would move me to do it. More weight loss is just not important enough to me, and wasn't when I started No S.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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Blithe Morning
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Post by Blithe Morning » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:41 pm

I was one of those who lost weight when I was keeping a check in thread (a de facto food journal). I was trying to collect data to see if Doable Fitness worked (my special concoction of No S, No S guidelines*, and exercise). It did. I think having the discipline of the daily check in really gave it some gas as I hit my lowest weight.

But even that got to be too much. I may start up a daily check in just for the winter as this seems to be the time of year when I am most non-compliant. However, the idea of having to take on a food journal as part of the systems makes me feel tired and dreary. It's much more palatable if I know that it's only for a few weeks to get me through a vulnerable patch.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:09 pm

Lots of things "work" to take weight off- if people continue to do them. The question to me is not whether it helps people lose but is it likely they'll be doing it two years later? Just about all traditional diets take weight off people; they just don't teach them to make it a habit of eating less permanently. (and statistically, they lead to greater weight gain, so it becomes a way to lose ground, not weight.) And if it's going to be permanent, it's got to be enjoyable enough to counterbalance the difficulty. Sometimes people are so determined that they make it work no matter how onerous. But those are the exceptions! That is not just my opinion.

When I see stats on stuff, I always think, "Well, yeah, but how many people attempted that and quit way before they could be included in the study?" They usually ignore the dropout rate. But the dropout rate become significant when you realize that those dropouts probably ended up gaining.

Then again, research shows that all strategies people use to try to lose weight fail in the long run for the majority.

That fact actually helped me commit to No S. I knew traditional diets were out, and I knew I didn't want to keep overeating and feeling too full most of the time was out. This was the "good enough" as is, and it's been better than that.

My observations may be biased, but it seems the people who do best with mods such as this are ones who gave No S a good long try, as much as a year or more, and actually learned to be compliant to Vanilla first. They had already instituted discipline. I doubt many of them could have started with the mod. OF COURSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS, but having the exceptions stand out doesn't make them NOT be exceptions.

Aack, I have too much time on my hands. And too little will to declutter! Thus I surf the boards. Lucky you!
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Dale
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:27 am

Post by Dale » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:32 pm

oolala53 wrote: When I see stats on stuff, I always think, "Well, yeah, but how many people attempted that and quit way before they could be included in the study?" They usually ignore the dropout rate. But the dropout rate become significant when you realize that those dropouts probably ended up gaining.

Then again, research shows that all strategies people use to try to lose weight fail in the long run for the majority.
You are so right!

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