How long till you know if it's "working"?

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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alice2002
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How long till you know if it's "working"?

Post by alice2002 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:19 pm

Since No S is a rather slow losing diet, how much time do you give it before perhaps making more changes? In other words...how long do you do Vanilla S before thinking you need to add more rules, or whatever? Right now I'm only focussing on getting through my N days correctly...so I'm not heavily focussing on what is on my plate...just that it's only ONE plate. So I'm just wondering, if I go a certain period of time, and do not see any loss (or very little), when should I start looking more at the content of what I'm eating? Like adding in more veggies, or cutting back on my portions. A matter of weeks? Months? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Oh, and I have about 20-25 lbs to lose. Thanks!

MJ7910
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Post by MJ7910 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:14 pm

i am feeling comfortable with it now but i wouldnt' recommend changes for a while until you feel like you are really getting it. it took me a while to get past wild S days. there were definite periods of overeating, that is for sure. but it did get more moderate about 6 months in. it is a gradual process of realizing you really don't need snacks, sweets, and seconds and that it's so much better to be actually hungry when you eat. but in our society, we are encouraged to eat constantly. that can be a big change in our minds. also with this diet mindset of eating 6 small meals every 2-3 hours or whatever they try to tell us... eat our 100 calorie protein bar 6 times a day, etc, etc... it takes a while to get these voices of diethead away and accept a normal way of eating meals. the s days were definitely crazy for me and it took some time to settle in. i still do indulge on s days but the best part now is there is no beating myself up over it. and no "counting" stuff... except no sweets, no snacks, no seconds... pretty easy to count!
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

MJ7910
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Post by MJ7910 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:16 pm

oh as far as weight loss i actually gained because i was going through diet deprivation mode . i went from 132 to 140 from feb to april. but then i went back down to 135 and have been at 135-140 pretty steadily for almost a year. i didn't really need to lose weight so i'm not the best person to ask! but if your habits are bad to start out with and your'e not experience diet deprivation rebound you may not have this happen to you. i'd say still just give it time because it is a much saner way to live.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

alice2002
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Post by alice2002 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:05 pm

I believe in No S 100% and don't plan on quitting. :) I just wondered about some kind of rule of thumb about seeing progress in weight loss. I want to know if I'm indulging too much in one area or another. For example, I will still have muffins and homemade coffee cake for breakfast, and occasionally pancakes. I don't want to cut them out, till I'm certain that I need to to lose the weight. So that's why I wondered just how long to give it before experimenting with maybe cutting out certain foods that I'm currently eating. Not sure if that makes sense.

I do see some good habits forming, though! Last Saturday I was baking cupcakes for my son's birthday, and I didn't lick the bowl. I reminded myself that it was an S day, so I could if I wanted (which I did), but my first response was to refrain from doing so. I big thing for me, since I always lick the bowl or spoon! I was very happy to see my efforts are paying off!

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Post by automatedeating » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:08 am

I think many of us have your question when we start NoSing, alice. It's a really common concern.

I know that I posted a similar question and experienced NoSers recommended I wait a while. I decided to commit to 12 weeks at first. Then after that I recommitted for 12 more weeks. I'm nearing the end of the second 12 weeks. I'm still not losing a lot of weight (but I am now in the normal BMI range), so I wondered if I should switch things up. I have decided not to....I will just stay Vanilla until August 25th and then reevaluate.

I would suggest you peruse the testimonials: NoS is filled with gradual year after year losers. It's pretty cool. Off the top of my head I can think of vicki from MNE; Oolala; joasia (milzcar) and eschano that have all lost weight year after year of just good ole' NoS.

What I firmly believe is so good about the steady and slow weight loss is that it allows our bodies to change their "set point" and not fight hard to return to the old weight. The body adapts to the new, ever so slightly less weight day after day.

Good luck! NoS requires persistence in habits, and patience with results.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

alice2002
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Post by alice2002 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:17 am

Thanks! I am trying not to worry too much about it. I never thought of committing to a certain amount of time. I mean, I figured I'll be doing this forever! :)

Does anyone else eat muffins and other typical breakfast foods that could possibly be seen as sweets on N days? I won't touch doughnuts, but like I said, I have a coffee cake that I really love. I hate to think I'm sabotaging myself by eating it...and yet I don't want to give it up, if I can still eat it on N days and lose. lol!

osoniye
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Post by osoniye » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:15 am

Hi, Alice,
I think it's good if you can follow Vanilla NoS for a while (6 months?) and see how it goes before making any changes. However, from my point of view, eating muffins, homemade coffee cake and pancakes on N days is not Vanilla NoS. So, rather than seeing your question as being about how long it takes to work before adding mods, I think it is more about the definition of "What is a sweet?".
While I don't think early mods are necessarily helpful (I speak from experience with too many mods, too early) I think it's worth giving Vanilla NoS a real chance with no sweets on N days. Would you consider having those sweet-ish items as special S day breakfasts instead?
Just something to think about.
-Sonya
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".

alice2002
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Post by alice2002 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:56 am

Sonya,

Yes, I guess that was my real question! Deciding if muffins and the like are ok on N days. I think I need to cut those out. Now to figure out more breakfast ideas besides eggs. :) I was kind of on a low carb diet a few months ago, and I'm sick of eggs all the time, and was really enjoying more variety.
Thanks for the input!

vmsurbat
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Post by vmsurbat » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:54 am

alice2002 wrote:Thanks! I am trying not to worry too much about it. I never thought of committing to a certain amount of time. I mean, I figured I'll be doing this forever! :)

Does anyone else eat muffins and other typical breakfast foods that could possibly be seen as sweets on N days? I won't touch doughnuts, but like I said, I have a coffee cake that I really love. I hate to think I'm sabotaging myself by eating it...and yet I don't want to give it up, if I can still eat it on N days and lose. lol!
We do! I've always had muffins and pancakes as part of our breakfast routine and don't consider my homemade ones to be S-day only treats.

I do think the actual recipe makes a difference. In older books (Joy of Cooking, for example) a dozen muffins is made with 1/4 cup of sugar. My older BH&G cookbook (the red and white plaid one) uses 1/3 c. sugar for 12 muffins. Most modern day recipes (Fine Cooking, EatingWell, CookingLight) use a cup or more of sugar for a dozen muffins--the healthy websites tend to add whole grains and fruit, not actually cut much sugar.

We prefer the old-fashion proportions, so I very, very rarely make a recipe with more than 1/3 c. of sugar and find modern recipes too dessert-like (unless, of course, I *am* serving it as a dessert!). I just cut the amount of sugar in recipes that otherwise look good to me...

Another factor is to serve proper proportions. A modest muffin (from the recipes of yesteryear) was only meant to be part of the meal (akin to a slice of toast), not the whole meal. So, I usually serve muffins with a simple egg, or maybe a sausage patty, or small glass of milk/cup of yogurt and a piece of fruit. Ditto with pancakes: a couple of pancakes and fried egg=yummo breakfast.

Since you also asked for breakfast suggestions, here are a few we have regularly:

Baked Oatmeal with fruit, Greek Yogurt, and sprinkling of toasted nuts. We had this for breakfast today. :-) In summer, fresh fruit; in winter, warm fruit compote or quick sauteed apples (slice several apples, saute in a bit of butter, sprinkle with a bit of cinnamon and sugar, serve over oatmeal.

Breakfast Burritos: scrambled egg, cheese, any leftover veggies, salsa in tortilla. Can skip the egg, too, and just use more veggies and/or beans.

Muffins and pancakes (explained above).

Eggs with veggies and toast: In a small frying pan (or microwaveable ramekin), I cook some veggies til done/hot (if I'm really on top of things I have leftover roasted/cooked veggies), crack an egg in there, cook until done to my liking. Serve with lightly buttered toast and small glass of juice. I always feel so civilized when I have this for breakfast!

Toast with PB and fruit: Classic--PB and banana. In winter, I mix the Pb with a bit of honey (ours in not pre-sweetened), spread it on toast, sprinkle with sesame seeds, and broil for a minute or two. Good and warm.

Oatmeal with add-ins: I never liked oatmeal until I learned to take the few extra minutes to boost up flavor and nutrition. I make with half milk/half water. The internet is full of flavor combos, but the general gist is to add fruit (fresh or dried) and spice(s), top with milk/cream/yogurt and nuts.

When I'm feeling ambitious, I hard-boil some eggs or make "egg Muffins" as found on low-carb websites to have on hand. But I always have those with toast or pancakes or potatoes or something..... I'm not a low-carber, but do believe it is very easy to overeat carbs...hence why we don't have ONLY muffins or pancakes or toast for breakfast....

And, FWIW, I found that my plates got better nutritionally over time without mods. Not that they were bad before, but I like to eat a plateful of food and the only way I can do that enjoyably is to have a well-balanced plate of food most of the time--not too heavy, not too rich, full of good flavors. Real life example: at the beginning of NoS, I would make a family favorite N-day meal: Homemade tacos. I would eat three accompanied with refried beans, some salad, and lots of salsa. Now, with no extra rules, I eat two tacos, salad, veggie side, and lots of salsa because that's what satisfies me best.

HTH,
Vicki in MNE
7! Yrs. with Vanilla NoS, down 55+lb, happily maintaining and still loving it!

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NoSnacker
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Post by NoSnacker » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:09 am

Hi, I do make homemade muffins and have them for breakfast with fruit..I don't consider my whole wheat banana muffins a dessert.

I have been back on No S vanilla for a couple months now and have not tweaked anything..my last 2 attempts last up to 5 months and then I started tweaking only to fall flat on my face.

No S vanilla seems to work better for me without mods..but like automated I'll revisit perhaps in May once I get past my 5 month trend.

Good luck!
Age 56: SBMI=30.6 (12/1/13) CBMI 28.9 (2/2/14) GBMI-24.8

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:33 pm

It is hard to predict weight since it depends on how overweight a person is and how much he/she has been overeating. I was a binger in the low obese range. I stuck to Vanilla 100% (but with WILD weekends) for three months and lost ten pounds. Then I wobbled. The loss has been in fits and starts over four years, but I reached my normal BMI range two years ago and have dropped another ten pounds since then. I've had to keep adjusting my intake downward and my hunger levels have dropped.

BTW, weight loss was not my goal, though I would have been surprised if it hadn't happened.

And I don't exercise regularly. :cry:

There is a lot of variation. I've seen people who I thought would take a long time to lose (because they really didn't "need" to lose) swoosh down 10 or 15 lbs. in a few months, and others inch their way down but not necessarily get thin- and everything in between.

After all that, I think the moral of the story is to try to be sensitive to and honest about your real hunger and satiety levels rather than the scale. The less hungry you are, the less dense food you eat.

And slow down to really enjoy your meals. You can start that now. :)
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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BrightAngel
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Post by BrightAngel » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

oolala53 wrote: I've had to keep adjusting my intake downward and my hunger levels have dropped.

There is a lot of variation.

I think the moral of the story is to try to be sensitive to and honest about your real hunger and satiety levels rather than the scale.
The less hungry you are, the less dense food you eat.
In general, people with a BMI in the "overweight" or borderline "obese" category
can more easily achieve weight-loss & maintenance success through No S diet princples.

Most people who have gone high up into the "obese" range
and stayed there for about 3 years or more, have raised their Set Points.
This permanently alters the body's physiological responses .. including their hunger and satiety levels,
which makes weight-loss, and maintenance of that weight-loss, far more difficult.

The evidence indicates that once a body's Set Point is raised, it never drops again.
This survival mechanism of the body is a one-way-street.

See:

http://www.diethobby.com/blog.php?ax=v&nid=730
http://www.diethobby.com/blog.php?ax=v&nid=875
http://www.diethobby.com/blog.php?ax=v&nid=732
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:10 pm

I've never used No S for weight loss and, though I love it to death, don't think weight loss is its true value. If I can't get there with No S or a close version of it, I am not willing to try to get there. I'm pretty sure I eat quite a bit less than a woman of my age and height would eat to maintain the same weight if she had never been overweight, but at this level, it's not a struggle. I actually wish I had more hunger these days, as my interest in food is not quite as small as my true hunger. But it's not torture. It's certainly oodles better than the life of overeating was.

If a person has serious health issues to start, or is very sure that our society's version of thinness is what they don't want to live without, honestly, Vanilla No S is no guarantee. The three-meal structure may be very useful, but those people will be much more likely to need mindful mods. People can love No S and think it's going to do stuff, but reality always wins.

I think people who can be completely carefree about being slim are the exception in the world and probably here, too. And I'm not convinced it's necessary. I'm very glad I am where I am now with food and eating, and it is nice to look slimmer than I was. I don't actually think I look really slim, but I think I look better than okay and I'm not really willing to eat a lot less or exercise more to look different, so ... here I stay.

And I do use a mod for weekends, instituted after 2.5 years.

I also stay here because there are enough people for whom just moderation, and its various results, is the goal, and that is so hard to find. It's very easy to find internet sites to manage thinness, if that is the goal. My experience is that there is an incredible amount of misery there, with sprinklings of peace. And there are places where people gather to try to let go of dieting, but a lot of them still struggle so much with overeating. This seems to be a place for balance. But nothing is automatic for everyone.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:28 pm

Amen, Sister!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

Dale
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Post by Dale » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:53 am

BrightAngel wrote: The evidence indicates that once a body's Set Point is raised, it never drops again.
This survival mechanism of the body is a one-way-street.
No! If this is true, it's very scary :(. I've been hoping that eventually (I'm talking years) I could somehow reset my set point to what it was before I gained the weight - or at least somewhere near.

I have been prepared for the fact that maintenance may mean constant vigilance, for life. (I have a fairly low TDEE, so No S alone isn't quite enough - I do have to be careful about the amount I eat).

About breakfast - I usually have porridge/oatmeal. Personally, I find it a bit bland without some salt. I usually put in a bit of seeds or nuts as well, for texture and health, and sometimes something sweeter, like berries, raisins or chocolate chips. I also like toast and peanut/nut butter.

Healthiermum
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Post by Healthiermum » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:54 am

I read a book called the don't go hungry diet and it's written by a scientist and she says your set point can be reset by staying at the lower weight for a certain amount of time it will reset your set point.

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BrightAngel
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Post by BrightAngel » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:52 pm

Helenaz123 wrote:I read a book called the don't go hungry diet and it's written by a scientist
and she says your set point can be reset by staying at the lower weight for a certain amount of time it will reset your set point.

People... including scientists... have different personal beliefs.
Many of them state different PERSONAL OPINIONS based on their own unsubstantiated beliefs
...as well as their personal desire for Success in Marketing their weight-loss products and ideas.

Re: Weight-loss Marketing
(It's Hard to Accept the TRUTH when Lies are Exactly what people Want to Hear).

I am now in my 9th year of maintaining my weight at a "normal" BMI.
My own personal experience provides me with proof that
MY body's Set Point is still back in the morbid obesity range at my highest weight.
(Also - my own experience appears to match that of the tiny percentage of people
who have had similar successes with large weight-loss and long-term maintenance
.)

Bottom line, an Opinion is not Evidence.
While there is a Great Deal of evidence that SET POINTS go UP,
(usually requiring a very Large weight gain which is retained for several years),
there is ZERO evidence that ... once raised... a Set Point ever comes down.

See my above-post for links of explanantion.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:26 pm

I agree with BrightAngel, though it's just my opinion as well. But it does seem to be supported by a lot of experience out there. A person is not going to be able to go back to eating the same way she did as a heavier person and probably not much more than what she did to get to a certain weight. That's why it seems so important to me that a person not attempt lifestyles that could not be permanent, meaning eating very small amounts of food for long periods of time to get to a certain weight on the assumption that she will be able to increase the amount appreciably once she's there. That strategy has very few successes, though they can seem higher because of high visibility.

Exceptions aside, and there always seem to be some, people who reduce their eating will most likely have to keep it reduced in some way to stay at a lower weight, unless they increase their movement appreciably, consistently, and permanently. Bottom line, if there is not an perceived increase in overall satisfaction, if the changes continue to seem like a sacrifice and the results NOT adequately reward-like, then the new habits will not continue.

For the heck of it, I looked up the book mentioned (by Dr. Amanda Sainsbery- Salis). Seemed based on intuitive eating. Eat when you're hungry. Stop when you're full. With a few extras. SO much harder than it sounds! It implies that you will not WANT to eat more than that, but as many of us have discovered, there is a big difference between feeling empty-stomach hunger and just a desire for food. So many members here talk about discovering that they were used to permasnacking without being hungry. Some really struggle with that on S days for quite awhile. Some give up and leave. Some return. It all has to come together and that statistically takes a few years, no matter what approach is taken.

This weight management stuff can sure be tricky. I say you're still on an excellent path here.

I know we can seem cult-like, but it's so hard to find support for plain old moderation and encouraging the long view without a lot of premature mods. I hardly ever get involved in discussions of this other places because of the number of contradictory claims the same people will spout. They caution about eating everything! I remember I used to spout a lot of the same stuff, forgo eating foods like nuts or fruit, and come home and eat a half a cake.


My knowledge of nutrition didn't help me understand how to deal with desire. And I still agree with Reinhard that on the Bell curve, the majority needs A LOT less about nutrition and lot more support for real meals and moderation. We could reserve the details for the far ends of the curve.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

Healthiermum
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:58 pm

Post by Healthiermum » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:54 pm

The book is based on intuitive eating which I agree with you is hard for a lot of people including myself. Everytime I tried it I would always gain weight I was more just mentioning the book to show that there might be some evidence that set points can go down. Of course in this weight loss game you can find arguments/ research showing both ways which is why this weight loss game is so difficult. That's why I love no s because it takes all that stuff out of the equation

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