If you can't range, fidget

Urban ranger is an inspirational metaphor to get you walking. Warning: there is poetry involved. Discuss it here.
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reinhard
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If you can't range, fidget

Post by reinhard » Thu May 26, 2005 3:53 pm

I heard something about this before, but the data are stunning: non-exercise activities can lose people 30-40 pounds in a year. Forget the gym, start moving. Anything helps. Fidget, stand, shuffle. Walking is hard core by these standards.

From the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/24/healt ... 4wigg.html?

Some highlights:

"In January, the scientists [at the Mayo clinic] reported a striking difference in activity levels between lean people and overweight ones. Their study, published in Science, did not involve deliberate exercise, but it measured - with the help of the sensors - how much people moved about naturally and spontaneously."

"The heavier ones tended to sit, while the lean ones were more restless and spent two more hours a day on their feet - standing, pacing around and fidgeting. The difference translated into 350 calories a day, enough for the heavy people to take off 30 to 40 pounds a year, if they would get moving."

"Nonexercise activity can account for a significant portion of the calories burned in a day, anywhere from 15 percent in a sedentary person to 50 percent in someone who is very active. Standing takes more energy than sitting, and strolling along at just one mile an hour burns twice the calories of sitting."

"His team has even measured the energy burned in gum-chewing (11 calories an hour, if you chew six pieces at a time)."

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Justin
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Post by Justin » Thu May 26, 2005 11:58 pm

Interesting. I've always wondered about that. A few months ago, I tried to get in to the habit of getting up every half-hour or so and just walk around my office a bit. I was doing that 50% for my physical health and 50% for my sanity. I can't imagine humans are really physically designed to sit around all day.

J

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Post by reinhard » Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 pm

Think of something really specific and make a monthly resolution. It's hard to act on "you know, I should really move a bit more." Every half hour sounds a bit much to be sustainable... maybe you could set a timer for a bit longer? Or say, "once a day, in addition to lunch, I'm going to get out of the office and walk around the block." Sort of like a smokeless smoke break. It may not sound like a lot, but these little things help, and it's the foundation for more, if you can really stick with it (and if you can't, then more wouldn't work either). I think the "once a day" (or twice, or n times) will work better than the timer (and either will work better than "you know, I really should...")

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Post by Justin » Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:44 pm

The time to take to fidget is up to the individual. I find that I'm able to get the most done if I get up every 30-45 minutes and take a 1-2 minute stretch/fidget -- even if it's jsut to get a glass of water. My job allows that flexibility; however, I tend to not take long lunch breaks and just eat at my desk.

J

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Post by reinhard » Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:51 am

I guess we all work best at different granulaties of time. I need bigger chunks to get anything done. Start up costs are high, and therefore distractions are expensive. I'm like a monster c program run via cgi: slow to start, but then I get a lot done.

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Monster? CGI? Wha?....

Post by gratefuldeb67 » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:34 am

Oh you computer geeks! :wink:

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navin
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Post by navin » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:58 am

Wow, I write all my CGI programs in Perl.... of course I'm not a web designer so any CGI I ever do is usually ridiculously simple.

Okay, seriously.. I've read/heard the same thing about fidgeting. The only thing is, it's very hard to do conciously. So yeah, getting out of the office and walking around (or walking to the co-worker's office instead of sending an e-mail), taking the stairs, etc. can probably add up.

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Post by carolejo » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:34 pm

Hey! I bet I'd burn tons of energy off simply by never using internal mail.

Man, I'm *so* lazy!

Right. As from tomorrow, the internal mail system is BANNED from my desk.
C.
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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:24 pm

Hey Carole Jo...
Hope your family and all are okay today, in light of the horrible attacks in London.. I know you're in Leeds, but hey maybe you know people down there too...
Good luck not internet mailing at your company...
Does that mean you will be walking over to the next meeting room? LOL...
Anyway,
Peace and Best Wishes!
Love,
8) Deb

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If you can't range fidget

Post by Big Phil » Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:35 am

Hi,
I read the paper this was taken from, it's quite convincing. So what I decided is that sitting is bad for you! Especially if you use a computer -EVERYONE that uses a computer for long periods sitting down gets a sore back and neck (it isn't just you).
My solution is - get a standing desk. High enough to read and type at while standing. I have instituted this in my lab (I am a scientist if you haven't guesse :roll: d). You tend to fidget around a lot more, swapping weight from side to side, your back and neck doesn't get sore and you don't get as tired and jaded in front of the computer as quick!
I have since found out that Winston Churchill and Thomas Jefferson eventually had standing desks made as they felt they were much more productive standing and were feeling unhealthy sitting all day.
Also in the 1800's most clerks, accountants and teachers that did bookwork all day had standing desks with nicely sloped tops to allow easy writing. For some reason it has gone by the wayside - but I am bringing it back. Your legs and back will thank you for it!
Phil. :D

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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:07 pm

Hi Big Phil!
Wow, standing instead of sitting sounds much better, as long as the monitors are at eye level not two feet below!
What kind of research are you involved in?
I'm a massage therapist and I can tell you that more than fifty percent of the people I treat all slouch at the computer...
The chest caves in, and then the whole spine goes out of allignment...
Most people don't realize that our heads are like Bowling Balls on top of a Flexi Straw.... They are pretty heavy, and get heavier, exponentially, with every inch forward away from the midline....
You should look at Reinhards "Everyday Systems Lab"..
He actually came up with a hilarious solution (*though I'm not sure if the name would inspire people unless they were masochists by nature!)
The Torquemada Posture Guard....
A pointy arial type antenna clamped to the desk at chest level...
Lean forward too much and you get a poking with the pointy tip!!!!
LOL!!!
Have a good one in the lab!
Peace,
8) Deb

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Post by reinhard » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:40 pm

Phil, do keep us posted about the standing desk. I'm very interested in this. I think Rilke, too, composed all his verses at a standing desk.

My desk at home is sort of a hybrid -- it's a little too high to sit but should really be a little higher for standing (it's not actually a desk). At work, I often find myself kneeling on the floor just to take a break.

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If you can't range - fidget

Post by Big Phil » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:50 pm

Hi Deb & Reinhard,
I work on recombinant protein production for experimental pharmaceuticals - sounds a lot more special than it is! :wink:
I think the chairs that are supposed to be good for posture and things like the Torquemada Posture Guard are difficult solutions to a simple problem - there is no good way to bend your lumbar vertebrae to almost 90 degrees, that isn't the way they are made! (when you sit your hips can only bend to about 60 degrees relative to the pelvis, the rest of the bend to sit in a seat is made up by the vertebrae - I have seen X-rays and an interesting discussion on this somewhere). Just don't sit in the first place, we aren't designed for it, we are designed for walking, squatting, lying down and shovelgloving. :D So just raise up your desk to a bit above navel height (and put your monitor up there as well).
I really want one of those old drafting desks, they could be raised very high and tilted at different angles - very useful for reading the newspaper, especially broadsheets.
I actually do think you are more productive standing as well. If anyone out there plays computer games alot, try raising your monitor and desk up so you stand and do it, I bet you go a lot better.
Man I could use a massage!
Phil.

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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:09 am

Hi Phil!
My outcall fee to Australia is 2100 dollars....
Let me know when you want a session :wink:
Have fun combining rna...
Peace,
Deb

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Post by happygilx » Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:02 pm

http://www.versatables.com/pages/sittos ... ding+desks

I have looked at these standing desks for a while and would love to purchase one for the home.....

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Post by carolejo » Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:10 am

Hi folks,

for some reason I missed this thread for a very long time!!

On standing desks - I fell down the stairs and broke my Coccyx (the residual tailbone all humans have at the base of the spine) about 5 years ago now. This was a terrible thing to do, cos I couldn't sit down for 3 months! (Hell, for the first 3 weeks, I couldn't lie on my back either, so I would keep rolling over in my sleep and waking myself up). I was working my my Ph.D then so had to be in the labs and in my office. I ended up moving an old lectern into my office so that I could stand up and write. When I had to use a computer, I took a cushion and knelt on the floor in front of it.

Sometimes my coccyx still gives me trouble if I'm sitting around too long, so it's like an automatic timer to get up and move about for a little while. I wouldn't recommend breaking yours it as a way to get you moving though! :lol:

C.
CaroleJo

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Post by Azathoth » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:03 pm

Reinhard, I know you're very anti-treadmill (and I am too, I think it's a ridiculous concept to stand inside and walk while there's a whole world waiting outside for you to explore), but...

Has anyone heard of these treadmill/desk office spaces that people are starting to talk about? I read an article awhile back (wish I still had a link to it) about people who work in offices or cubicles all day having the afore mentioned elevated desks combined with treadmills so they could walk at a steady pace throughout the day as they worked on their computers.

Being a programmer (even one that spends most/all of his lunch hour out walking instead of sitting around, per the urban ranger way of life) I think this would be kind of neat to have. I mean lets face it, I'm stuck in front of this machine for so many hours every day, the least I could do is get a little exercise while I'm at it.

Treadmills will never replace the real world for my preferred method of walking, but in addition to my other walks I bet I could get myself in better shape by walking at my desk all day also (but my boss will NEVER shell out the cash for one of these for me). On the other side of the coin though, I would never, ever want my brain to associate the joy of walking with the hell of being at work, so maybe this is a bad idea after all...

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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:45 pm

Hi Azathoth..
Did you ever see Woody Allen's movie "Bananas"??
It starts out with a scene where Woody is working as a new products tester and he's giving a demo of the newest exercise machine,,
The Execu-ciser (I think? LOL...)
It's got a draw that is attached to a Nautilus machine and a stationary bike under the desk and a basketball hoop attached above the desk...

As he's using it, it starts to get too fast and everything goes kablooie...
He winds up with the spring loaded weight cables hitting him in the head and the basketballs shooting out at him, etc..
It's hilarious!

Even if you don't watch the rest of the movie, you have to rent this just to see this scene...
Maybe you'll have second thoughts about getting an
"Execu-ciser" at your job!
LOL..
Why not just take a lunch walk for fifteen minutes, if that's a possibility?
Peace,
8) Deb

(Oh, btw, you look so cuddly and cute in your avatar! LOL...)

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Azathoth
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Post by Azathoth » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:53 pm

Deb,

Heh... I do vaguely remember that movie, but it's been a long time since I saw it... I'll add it to my Netflix queue to refresh my memory. Glad you like the avatar, I was just poking around images.google.com today in the interest of avoiding work (it's really what I'm best at).

I do walk during my lunch breaks (which are an hour). I either pack a lunch now and carry it wherever I'm going and eat half way, or I walk to subway (about a mile away) and eat something small there and then walk back (detouring as much as necessary to stay out for an hour). I just thought if I could combine my lunch walking with constant walking at my desk I'd be burning calories like a madman! ;)

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I think that I don't want to ruin my love for walking by associating it with my job. I'll continue to use walking as my escape from the wasted time at work, and hopefully take on even more of the urban ranger lifestyle and use walking as a replacement for driving in as many situations as possible.

(P.S. I'd be more productive at work if I could, don't think I'm just another lazy engineer, but it seems my company insists on showing as little productivity as possible, oh well, as long as they pay my bills)

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Post by sibyl » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:58 pm

I don't know about the standing desk idea...

I worked retail and stood around all day long and by the end of the day my knees just quit on me. Of course, I often worked 12-13 hour days, too. Maybe standing for just 8 isn't so bad. Or if I had something to lean on or rest on, like a stool or something just below waist high.

My home computer chair is an armchair I can 'curl up' in, tuck my legs underneath me, sit cross-legged, etc. Sometimes I take the keyboard and balance it on my lap (if one of the cats isn't already sitting there!!)

Its way more comfy than a 'proper posture' office chair. At the office, I'm always tucking up one leg and then the other to give my back a break. I'm just not capable of 'sitting properly' with both feet flat on the floor. That's torture! :roll:
"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on its head".

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