jackn's daily

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

Moderators: Soprano, automatedeating

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jackn
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day 36

Post by jackn » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:38 pm

day 36
All's well.
Sleep: 6.5 hours? rested.

No wake-up snack, not hungry. To do with large dinner? With relatively good sleep?

Don't at all feel like cake when contemplate food.
Not food-averse - savoury-inclined, rather. The thought of blowing a meal on cake and bread, my go-to treat, doesn't appeal at all: most of all, due to the loss of a real, square meal, but, on top of it, the appeal of cake has declined since I started freely allowing myself this treat.

Dinner preceded by surges of desire for cake or a richer savoury meal. Finally, though, settled to having regular, and going for a richer meal tomorrow morning. I believe that this was decided by my gut, not by cerebral considerations of prudence, and so, in keeping with alwats going for what most desire.
And... left some over.

Things are happening.
I'm also mindful of chewing more often. What's nice about this is that it happens very gradually, if indeed there's a trend. This gradual change feels natural and even effortless, as opposed to the obedient following of a rule.

The whole thing feels easy, for one thing, and, for another, pleasant. It's not a struggle. Rather, it feels like heeding some natural inclination.

Hope I'm not going making too much of it and getting my hopes too high.

Exercise: morning routine
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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jackn
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About Linda's comment on undistracted eating

Post by jackn » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:45 pm

It's a book with you, Linda?
At least something worthwhile...
It's surfing that's my downfall...
Give me a couch, a laptop and anything to keep my mouth stuffed and... I'm lost.
And I have started and drifted off many times. And I have no idea whether this trend will hold.

NoSurfing.

Your encouragement and attention help.
This is what works for me, at this point.

Good luck with your own path.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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jackn
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In answer to Joasia

Post by jackn » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:24 pm

Thank you kindly for your interest, Joasia.

I'm Israeli, born and raised.
Went to the U of Chicago in the USA, for seven years.
Have been living in France for family reasons for the last 21 years.

I've posted on France and overweight: https://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopi ... ance+obese
I went ahead and added a remark, in light of your post here.
Also, some observations on France in another thread, in response to Cedar: https://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopi ... ance+obese

Please feel free to pursue this further, though, you know, I'm just one guy.

I will say that I'm quite obssessed with what our food culture has been doing to us, and, so, am very sensitive to what's going on on this front here in France.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 37

Post by jackn » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:48 pm

day 37
All's well.
Sleep: ? so-so rested.

Exercise: morning yoga video.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Day 38

Post by jackn » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:31 pm

day 38
All's well.
Sleep: ?, so-so rested.

I do go on worrying that it's all a dream, and I'm gonna wake up wallowing in a morass of self-loathing, stuffed the gills.

I wonder whether I should go on posting daily.
At first, it felt helpful. Now, I wonder whether it's become a challenge, a goal I have to meet, a streak I must watch out for, whereas I'd like to develop a peaceful relationship with food and life: the flexible, playful tension between aspiration and limits. Not to force, but to aspire, while heeding the signs.
Will see.

Richer lunch than usual, as was peckish throughout morning. Is it need or is it stress?
Dinner, cake-n-bread treat at the cafe.

Exercise: morning yoga video.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

RAWCOOKIE
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Re: Day 38

Post by RAWCOOKIE » Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:48 am

jackn wrote: I do go on worrying that it's all a dream ....
I feel like that every Saturday when the No S rules are relaxed - I have niggling doubts about my ability to STOP come Monday!
I love Everyday Systems :3

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Post by jackn » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:20 am

Hey, Raw, thanx for sharing.
I appreciate knowing that concerns are not only my own.

Yes, I hope I've quit practicing the NoStopping diet.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 39

Post by jackn » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:09 pm

day 39
All's well. No! Fail...
This 'All's well' was posted yesterday. This morning, I think I cheated. Cheated myself and others.
At breakfast, I went beyong what I set myself as my 'meal'. That's how I decide whether it was a 'legit meal' or not. Namely, I set an amount, with essentially the protein limited and the veg free. In this case, it was 100g sausage and raw veg. At the 'end' of breakfast, I got out of the cafe and got avocados in order to go on.
This is typical of my overeating behaviour: quite on automatic pilot, and going beyond planned.
What I had is no issue, 2 avocados more. It's about going on, not fully aware, absorbed in my reading... (I only read when I eat out, treating myself) It's typical of behaviour that slips into binges.
No binge, thank God.
All of this no big deal. A fail, and I take it easily.
For one thing, isn't it 'normal' to overeat at times?
For another, yes, it might be nice one day not to go there at all, but, if at all it's desirable and may one day come, I can't get there, and should above all not drive myself, to get there any faster than it is in me to get there.
All of this is fine, and it's the journey.
Matter of fact, it's very positive, too, as the overeating was relatively innocusous.
Most of all, for quite long, no binges.


Sleep: woke up in the middle of the night, second night in a row. 4.5 hours?, not rested.

Middle-of-the-night snack, as woke up.
No morning workout, decided to put off till after a noontime nap.

Last night's 'treat' dinner is not at fault, I don't think. I think it's my current stressful spell. Or the dizzy spell I've put myself into by worrying about it.

I do wonder, though, I admit, about shunning processed altogether, and what it would do.

Amazing how I enjoy fizing food, mostly veg dishes, and very simple. Relaxes me and I find it enjoyable. And listening to podcasts while at it.

Hungry all morning, even after a copious, larger than usual, breakfast.
Tiredness?

By the time lunch rolled around, not hungry, and even stuffed.
But wanted to drown the tiredness and fall asleep, so had lunch, a pretty big one, and a glass of wine.
Couldn't fall asleep afterwards, and 'hungry' again within a short while.
Later, again, not hungry.

Both in the morning and in the afternoon, the 'hunger' went away while I was busy working, and quite interested in what I was doing, not drudge-work.

Spent most of the day in bed, doing mental work most of the time. Need to, and tomorrow too, as things at work are getting hectic.
But also need to keep my wits about me.
In this regard, food plays the usual crucial role: either I manage it, and then body feels nice, and the spirit copes handsomely, or I go wild and the body suffers and spirits droop.

Clearly overate today: in addition to usual fare, two extra avocados at breakfast and about 100g beans at lunch.
No big deal, but most of all, stuck to three meals.
Clearly used food as comfort, too, today. And last night.
May this always be the way a depleted day like today translates.

Exercise: None.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 40

Post by jackn » Sun May 01, 2016 5:09 pm

day 40
Fail, and the biggest, and most blatant since began 40 days ago.
Sleep: 6.5 hours, rested
Relief.

Went back and edited yesterday's post, as realized it was a fail day, and not ok, as I posted, cheating myself and the world.

This morning peckish, but won't snack, as no exercise will do.
And feel like cooking, a relaxing activity, as usual. How strange, and nice, to have this. Anything goes, as long as it's not grazing.

Delish breakfast.
Wanted more, but stopped. What do you know.
Strangely, was more attracted to the making of a salad which was to follow, and even considered putting off breakfast to do it...

Delish and copious lunch.

Taking yesterday's overeating episode, the second time I've done this, strikes me as essential - not in the sense of a directive, but a good pattern of growth to aspire to.
It seems to depend on not having a very strict framework, especially one whose source is exterior - in other words, a 'diet', especially the restrictive ones, which makes almost all of them. If you try to comply with such a rigid framework, it's bound to seem as the end of the world when you break, however slightly, one of the 'rules', and then you feel lost, with the well-known consequences.

About an hour before dinner, a snack turned into overeating. The snack was something I haven't had in 40 days, namely a snack between meals, and it was on a whim.
Then, even though I felt stuffed, I went on eating. Closer to a binge than to a snack.

Had been working and hating it, with little rest, and it's cold.

Of course, was tempted to go on since nlew it anyway, but stayed off food till bedtime.
Hope not wake up peckish in the middle of the night...

Exercise: morning yoga video
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Sun May 01, 2016 5:55 pm

well done for yanking on the brakes!
I love Everyday Systems :3

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Post by jackn » Mon May 02, 2016 2:46 am

This is very kind and helpful, Raw.
I'm grateful.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by lpearlmom » Mon May 02, 2016 4:58 am

Looks like you're continuing to do well with great insight to the one or two little blips you've had. It does seem easier to put on the brakes with NoS doesn't it? I think it's because there's a a structure in place for everything and mess ups are expected and considered normal not something forbidden.

Hope you have a great week!

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by jackn » Mon May 02, 2016 9:49 am

Yes, I'm surprised at having stopped mid-binge. And pleased.

On top of the built-in license in NoS you referred to, I think it helped to see RawCookie, and was it yourself, Linda, take it easy when a slip occurred.

Thanx for the input.
Fingers crossed.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 41

Post by jackn » Mon May 02, 2016 7:07 pm

day 41
All's well.
Sleep: 5 hours, quite rested.

Overall, feeling positive about yesterday's binge.
It did look like a binge: shifting to being unaware at some point, eating whatever, including an almost frozen burger, going on in spite of clear pain in the stomach... sad and shocking that I can do that.
But what dominates now is a positive feeling about having stopped it early on.
This is very rare.
The pattern is still there: misery breeds urges.
Surprise surprise.
Anyway, wipe slate clean .

No hunger this morning, but mean to have breakfast after exercise.
No bloat, either, thank God, just kind of fuller than usual. In short, I'll be going through the one-day post-binge recovery cycle, but on a much diminished scale.

The biggest takehomes from yesterday:
a. it all started with a 'snack', the first one I'd taken in 40 days other than my legit wake-up snacks; and
b. it's possible, and highly salutary, to stop a binge in its tracks.
Causes (not excuses, observations on pitfalls is all): weekend tiredness and letting go and comfort seeking and being idle, having to get drudge work done over the weekend, anxiety built into a frenzy about the upcoming intense month...

Anyway. Onwards and forwards.

Later in the day, noticed irritability.
Yes, lots of pressure at work, but also overeating.
It always means lack of lightness, in body and mind.
To me, this is the biggest downside to overweight or overeating, more than looking good.
It's such help, such a delight and a joy not to have overeaten.
The effect is immediate, regardless of weight.
Losing fat boosts it yet, but it's instant.
So, today, sour face.
Sorry to self and others.

Tomorrow will be lots nicer, as, despite the same pressures, will have eaten ok, so should feel lighter...

Exercise: morning yoga video, light evening routine
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

RAWCOOKIE
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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Mon May 02, 2016 8:45 pm

Yes, tomorrow you will feel lighter..........
8)

I want to share this small story with you about my recent experience: I am not usually an evening eater - I mean, I am fortunate in that I've not had to overcome a desire to eat in the evening (or night). But on Saturday, I'd eaten snack foods in the afternoon, then not eaten a 'proper' dinner - so by about 9pm I felt a bit hungry. I ate two handfuls of peanuts (the roasted, salted kind!) - and I just couldn't sleep that night - I felt so sort of 'full' and slightly nauseated - I ended up getting up at 2am and making a herb tea. But, the feeling of having that extra food in my stomach was SO unpleasant, it helped reinforce the idea that eating late evening is not worth it!
I love Everyday Systems :3

13.6.15 124.25lbs
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Post by LoriLifts » Mon May 02, 2016 10:29 pm

Stopping by to say hi!
Good for you for stopping mid-binge. You seem very self aware of your behaviors and triggers.
You're going to have a terrific week!
Habits are at first cobwebs, then cables.

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Post by jackn » Tue May 03, 2016 2:15 am

RAWCOOKIE wrote:the feeling of having that extra food in my stomach was SO unpleasant, it helped reinforce the idea that eating late evening is not worth it!
Delish story.
Thanx.

To the point that I wonder about whether it'd be advisable to purposely eat very moderately at dinner, something like 'just enough'.
It would run counter to my trying not to be deprived at a meal - a condition for no-snacking, in my opinion - and, also, I personally find the sleep-food complex complicated (though promising to explore).

I tend to have carbs at night, believing it helps me sleep, but it definitely means a relatively fuller feel at night.

Anyway, yes, roasted, salty peanuts can be enticing, but that instant 'hangover', yes, definitely a no-no.
And, come to think of it, the roasted, salty peanuts I'm familiar with, and that do entice me at times? Just a pack of food corporation nastiness designed to give the 'more' and 'need something sweet' urges.
Lucifer-laced.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by jackn » Tue May 03, 2016 2:16 am

Thanx, Walker.
You're off to a good start yourself, by the looks of it.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue May 03, 2016 5:47 am

Yep, the saying around here is "mark it and move on". Take what insights you can from it but no need to dwell. The stark contrast from a normal nos day to those days when I stray are usually enough to get me back on track. It just feels so much better to eat in a balanced way.

Have a great week and thank you for the encouragement to continue on my thread. Means a lot.

Linda :)
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by jackn » Tue May 03, 2016 2:10 pm

lpearlmom wrote:"mark it and move on".
Like that.
Will keep it up my sleeve for a rainy day.

Good luck to all.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 42

Post by jackn » Tue May 03, 2016 5:55 pm

day 42
All's well.
Sleep: 4.5 hours. So-so rested.

Not hungry 'in the morning' (3:30am).
Not feeling the lightness I felt before the recent binge yet. Or seeing sane eating on my face. It shows as tonus in my facial skin, as opposed to flab. Observation or mindgame?

It occurs to me that the 'blips' or 'slips' I've had during these 42 (!...) days have all had to do with the two basic meal-mechanics issues: snacking once and not ending the meal on time twice. In other words, salutary reminder, two keys: no-snacking, the big-beautiful-all-powerful one, and push-the-table. Reminder.

Indeed, as in the usual cycle, felt lighter and calmer today, and more welcoming and easy with people.

Hey, day 42, time to post on the 21-day thread...

Exercise: morning yoga video.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Wed May 04, 2016 7:55 am

One of the great benefits of having followed No S for 42 days (how time flies!!) is the time (between eating) it gives us to have realisations like the ones you've just had - those two key points will now be in your mind as habits that need strengthening - and you will strengthen them, no doubt of that!
I love Everyday Systems :3

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Post by jackn » Wed May 04, 2016 8:57 am

Hey, Raw, thanx.

This has gone on long enough that I'm actually beginning to believe it.

Cool.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 43

Post by jackn » Wed May 04, 2016 7:50 pm

day 43
All's well.
Sleep: ?, middle of the night, so-so rested.

Peckish, but OK.

Feel good.
Please let this go on.
Please no more overeating and binges.
Boy, it's like night and day between eating sanely and pigging out.
Fingers crossed.

What's funny and great is that what I regard as sane eating feels like princely eating. I eat lots and I enjoy the food.
Might scale down in time, but at this point work on steady course. And any changes will have to come from body, and naturally, rather than by bowing down to mind rules.

Lunch change this picture: it was heavy. Yet, I ate as usual. In other words, as I've been realizing, what I allow myself is too much.
I felt stuffed and disinclined to move.
And I felt disinclined to eat some seven hours later, still, which is unusual.

This may be abrupt, but a plan hatched.
For one thing, curtail two meals: take away the cheese from my almost-daily raw meal and take away the occasional carbs from breakfast.
A second measure: chew. It's something I know from experience to be shockingly powerful, but also very demanding. So I mean to do less of it than I used to, but stop the hurried eating I've been doing for a while.
This might go together with leaving over some, at least a token.
In any case, I promise myself to follow any changes carefully, and not force myself into some sort of constant struggle that I can't sustain.
I don't know, but my bet is not only won't it be a struggle, but it'll actually be easier and will feel better.

Wait and see.

Quite pleased with afternoon walk and with eating ok today, as was hurt at work, and carried the wound all day long.

Exercise: morning yoga video, afternoon walk in town
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 44

Post by jackn » Thu May 05, 2016 3:47 pm

day 44
All's well.
Sleep: 5.5 hours, quite rested.

Nice. Sleep...
A raw, delish breakfast - very fresh kholrabi - gotten yesterday, at the farmers' market.

I'm also thinking that much of yesterday spent in bed, and some walking in town, was a very good sign, as they were reactions to tiredness and despondency, and no emotional eating went on.

May this go on.

Had a treat- or S-meal for lunch: my usual chocolate cake and bread gig, but with an exception.
Cake was home-made. My main reason was to avoid the butter of of industrial farming which I get when I go to the cafe.
But making the cake at home had another consequence. Something that always happens to me with cakes. I don't know about others. Seeing the ingredients of the cake, and making the batter has a similar effect to Bismarck's remark about laws and sausages: 'Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made'. The sight of all this sugar and butter, knowing that this is what the final, dark treat is really made of, gives me pause. Needless to say, I consumed the cake just as I usually would, but perhaps making it at home made me more mindful when chewing it, and perhaps also in the long run.
Anyway, my rule is that I go along whenever the desire arises, and this tends to occur about once a week or less.

Nicest thing about the cake episode, by far: when making the cake, what with chocolate covered dishes, crumbs left over on plates and silverware... the usual scene - I avoided licking any of it. Only had the slice and the bread. The rest got nicely washed and went down the sink.
Thank you Reinhard and no-Snacks.

And, eh, icing on the cake - the cake was actually an experiment with a novel recipe. As I expected from the ingredients, it came out overly, even sickly, sweet. This left an overly sugary aftertaste which lasted a few hours.
And, in the evening, I realized that... I was going to throw it away. I did not want to have any more of this fancy sugar. Not for any health or weight management reasons, but purely out of heeding my desire. No, I was not going to enjoy this a second time more than I did the first time around. On the contrary, I'd put up with it, kinda, in the name of some mindless habit of 'wanting' chocolate cake.
No, into the garbage can it goes.
This is by no means a shunning of the chocolate cake in general, though I might sober up somewhat.
But even throwing out one big cake is nice. True desire, not mind mindless following of mind habits.

Have taken to leaving over some at the end of the meal, as planned on yesterday.
So far, only token bits. Early days. Putting away in bag in the freezer, as cannot bring myself to throw away and cannot keep long enough in fridge. Mean to accumulate till it makes sort of a meal.

Final

Exercise: a late morning walk in town.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

RAWCOOKIE
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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Thu May 05, 2016 5:59 pm

WOWEE!

That is amazing! Congratulations!

I also now prepare food of all kind without licking spoons :wink: it seems like such a small thing, but it's a habit-behaviour, and not doing it really does make a difference to how I relate to my food. I enjoy licking spoons on S days :lol:
I love Everyday Systems :3

13.6.15 124.25lbs
11.11.21 101.00lbs

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jackn
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Post by jackn » Thu May 05, 2016 6:31 pm

Hearty thanx.

The S-day licking of spoons put a smile on my face.
No-Spoon-licking, ekSept Sometimes.

Good luck to us all.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Fri May 06, 2016 6:08 am

Love the cake story and all the insights that go with it. I really enjoy reading your writing in general. So glad you found our little community here.

Oh how I wish I could spend a day lounging in bed. Much better than eating all day--great job!



Linda :)
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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jackn
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Post by jackn » Fri May 06, 2016 8:29 am

Thanx a bunch, Linda.

Not offering a slice of the cake as it is, really, way too sweet.
Next time around.
Possibly, tonite.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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jackn
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day 45

Post by jackn » Fri May 06, 2016 5:21 pm

day 45

Sleep: ?, ok rested

Peckish.

Planning food day when woke up in the middle of the night. Is that pathetic or what?
Decided on treat-meal for lunch, a very modest one, though, just not my home-cooked whole food: falafel with my own raw veg brought along.
And, for dinner, savoury oatmeal, that is with scallions, parsley and butter, and eggs on the side.

Need to spend every day grading, for three days in a row. Deadening. And, of course, food urges rise. But it's like an old, familiar false alarm that I have to say 'Oh, you're here again' to, and move on.

Lunch carbs-y, given the falafel. OK quantity, but feel a touch too full. Due to carbs, no doubt.

Dinner left over some.

Exercise: none
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

RAWCOOKIE
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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Fri May 06, 2016 6:27 pm

Planning food - I love it! I always need to know what I'm going to eat for my next meal (at least!). I sometimes go to bed with my cookery books :roll:

Here's something to distract you from marking papers for a minute or two! :shock:
I read this today, and thought you might enjoy it; it was about music - but I think it applies to food - you'll see what I mean I think:

"To understand why music pleases us, we must ask why we feel pleasure at all. What we perceive as "pleasure" may be just the thrill of shooting the rapids on our body's "river of reward", as chemist James Olds nicknamed it. It was Olds who, when he was conducting experiments with rats, first located the brain's pleasure centre. Like the rest of the body, the river of reward is a strange alloy of electricity and chemicals, and there are various ways to trigger or quiet it artificially, using electrodes or drugs. From the outset we've evolved through a thick tapestry of rewards, so it shouldn't surprise us that quiz shows, contests, medals, and award-donating programs of every conceivable kind dominate our culture, or that addictions are to hard to break. Reward, one of the central players in our brain, wears many masks." from A Natural History of the Senses, by Diane Ackerman

That phrase "river of reward" just really jumped out at me. Planning our meals, looking forward to our next meal - this is part of our "thick tapestry of rewards" - we're wired for it!
I love Everyday Systems :3

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jackn
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Post by jackn » Fri May 06, 2016 7:56 pm

RAWCOOKIE wrote:Planning food - I love it! I always need to know what I'm going to eat for my next meal (at least!). I sometimes go to bed with my cookery books :roll:
You indulge yourself freely.
Good for you.

If I could improve my enjoyment of other things in my life, though, food wouldn't always be such a go-to.
You seem to meet friends a lot, which I can't say for myself and which would be very helpful.
Conversation makes me feel good, and I notice I eat less and less avidly when in conversation.

The quotation snack was very enjoyable.
How kind.
So much fun to drop those papers.

I like "river of reward" and "A Natural History of the Senses".
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Sat May 07, 2016 6:50 am

I'm glad you enjoyed the quote. It's a funny thing, but I don't feel I actually have really close friends - they are mostly what I would call 'activity mates' - we share the same interests. I guess that is a level of friendship.

I hope you have a good weekend - I'm wondering if you'll be off to the cafe today? It's raining here.
I love Everyday Systems :3

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Post by jackn » Sat May 07, 2016 9:18 am

Oh, yes, cafe as usual, right after the farmers' market.
Balmy day over here. It's not the UK.
Or am I wrong?! Don't know where I got the impression you lived across the Channel.
Cae mornin was particularly good, as we were five around the table, and a very rich conversation was held.
Also, treated myself to mange-tout peas together with my sausage and other usual suspect raw veg.

And.
Made another chocolate cake this morning, different recipe, and am about to try it with my usual choc-cake-bread combo.

Interesting about the 'activity mates' thing.
Yes, I see.

This being the weekend, I guess you'll be enjoying an S-Day.
Hope it works out to your liking.

Raw, I appreciate the attention and the conversattion.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 46

Post by jackn » Sat May 07, 2016 6:01 pm

day 46
All's well.
Sleep: ?, very so-so rested

Slight hunger, delayed breakfast as, on Saturday, have it after farmers' market, at a cafe, so around 8, instead of 5-5:30.
After workout, no hunger.
Also, amazing how it happens, almost a certainty born as to what would like to have today: nettle with pasta, (alongside eggs or cheese).

Cake-bread treat-lunch. This time with carrots.
Good. This time OK cake. I can see how I might modify the recipe, but ok.
Also, i believe I'm getting used to the moist, rich taste of choc fudge cake, so 'tolerance' has set in...
Perhaps doing better with chewing and mindfulness. Needless to say, no leftover from this meal.

Feels so interesting.
Still grading papers, still soul-deadening.
Fleeting thoughts of food. Obviously, seeking respite, not food.
When I take a break and lie down to surf - lie down, not eat - it feels like I want to stay on the couch till the cows come home, rather than get up to eat, though 'it's time'.
And I've already had this experience of getting up to eats vying with lingering on the sofa...

I think the daily check-in, which has really become more akin to journaling for me, has been extremely helpful.
There's almost nothing new in what I realize, but somehow it's turned into action, whereas it didn't use to.
I mean, lying down to rest, instead of 'comforting' (=poisoning) myself with mindless eating.
Finally, for the first time ever, one particular thing that has always been a mere idea, actually drives action. It's usually pointed out that by overeating we only aggravate the despondency that started it to begin with.
The flip side of the coin also holds and perhaps even more profitably: by eating sanely in spite of despondency, we feel better and can deal with the causes from a position of greater self-love, self-esteem and quiet confidence.
And that's exactly what I've noticed several times. It's as if I rally when the thing hits the fan, and then little by little feel better merely through having gone on eating sanely.
In other words, the weakness becomes a way to pull myself up by my own bootstraps.
Little wonder I like this bonus real well.

Exercise: morning yoga video
Last edited by jackn on Sun May 08, 2016 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by cedar » Sun May 08, 2016 11:26 am

You have a lovely way of writing Jackn..like poetry :D

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Post by jackn » Sun May 08, 2016 12:35 pm

Hey, Cedar, how kind of you to pay attention.
I'm flattered.

Many happy returns of your 3x GREEN.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 47

Post by jackn » Sun May 08, 2016 4:48 pm

day 47
All's well.
Sleep: 3.5 hours. So-so rested.
Peckish.

These few days of regular eating show.
Nice relatively empty belly feel much of the time, facial tonus...

Feel like roasted peanuts as my carbs at some point today.
And for my meat meal, have crockpot stew finishing overnight. The aroma is in the air. Yumm.
And all of these delights aren't even treat-meals. Nature is such an on-going feast.

I can't say for myself what Rawcookie said yesterday, that she woke up without thinking about the food she was going to have... And that, on an S-Day of hers...

At the end of the morning workout, felt gratitude: to the forum, and for life.

My raw meal, which I had for breakfast is raw veg and some fat and sweetness, all whole food. For a while, easily a month, I'd have it with four of the latter 'sides'. I knew all along it was very rich. Then, when I finally accepted taking away one of them, and keeping to three, it's become clearer yet how right that is. It's still rich, and enough.
To quote Mary Poppins again: "Enough is as good as a feast." (https://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopi ... ough+feast).

Ate too much at lunch, feel stuffed.
And, of course, very reluctant to pick up grading again.
Oh, well.
Nose to the grindstone.

Left some over at dinner.

Exercise: morning yoga video
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Re: day 47

Post by lpearlmom » Mon May 09, 2016 5:15 am

jackn wrote: Sleep: 3.5 hours. So-so rested.


At the end of the morning workout, felt gratitude: to the forum, and for life.
I would be a wreck with so little sleep!

Those moments of gratitude are so important, aren't they? I need to focus more on all I have and less on what I don't. Thanks for the reminder.

Tomorrow is a crock pot meal for us. Gotta love those days!

Hope you get some rest soon! What is it that makes grading papers so awful? The sameness of it all or the fact that there's never any end in sight?
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Re: day 47

Post by jackn » Mon May 09, 2016 11:17 am

Gratitude is often counseled, indeed.
What struck me about that morning was how it emerged spontaneously.
lpearlmom wrote:I would be a wreck with so little sleep!
Tell me about it.
lpearlmom wrote:What is it that makes grading papers so awful? The sameness of it all or the fact that there's never any end in sight?
Take your pick.
Not to mention that many of the kids don't bother to take advantage of the learning opportunity.

Yea, did lots of kvetsching, but the devil isn't that bad, and there are good sides, too, such as being in touch with the students and some learning and conversation that take place sometimes.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 48

Post by jackn » Tue May 10, 2016 1:17 am

day 48
All's well.
Sleep: 5.5? hours, so-so rested

Long weekend over with no overeating. Given that started pooped out, happy with it.
Also, still and more so, lots of treats and temptations lying aound in the kitchen, but they seem safe. Something as basic as apples, not to mention chocolate, I could never keep around without gobbling it down sooner or later.

The mindful eating is growing spontaneously, now that it's begun.

Come to think of it, it's a good thing that so few restaurants in town appeal to me. I almost always prefer my own, home-cooked.

More and more note how an urge to eat is really a need for rest. This is true both of a need to rest the body and of a need to take a break due to a hectic pace or just 'doing' a lot.

Left over some at lunch.

Exercise: morning yoga video,
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by LoriLifts » Tue May 10, 2016 2:38 am

Belated congrats for completing the 21 day challenge.
I read your post on the 21 day thread.
Hip Hip Hooray!
Habits are at first cobwebs, then cables.

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Post by jackn » Tue May 10, 2016 5:45 am

Thanx, Walker.
I'll take congrats anytime.

I mean to go on following the 21-day term, but by now I feel the habit is quite ingrained, and I'm looking more long range.

What a relief, what relative ease.

I appreciate the feedback.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Re: day 48

Post by RAWCOOKIE » Tue May 10, 2016 6:01 pm

Great realisation!
jackn wrote: More and more note how an urge to eat is really a need for rest. This is true both of a need to rest the body and of a need to take a break due to a hectic pace or just 'doing' a lot.
There are still some things I can't keep in the house, sometimes! Last week I took the risk of buying two 100g packs of shortbread (as there was a money-saving offer) and one packet it still in the cupboard - for next weekend. Sometimes I can do it; sometimes I can't! I suspect you might find the same! The times I can are getting more frequent.
I love Everyday Systems :3

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Post by jackn » Tue May 10, 2016 8:11 pm

Yes, Raw, I do wonder whether it's just a phase and will go away.
Won't have been the first time, either.

I will say, however, that this has gone on for long, that during this time I faced the usual stresses, and, yet, the sane eating and keeping danger foods at home have hung around.

I'll stick my neck out and say that it's starting to look like a habit has been acquired.
And I do also get sweaty hands as I say so.

Great that you have kept the shortbread packet unopened.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 49

Post by jackn » Tue May 10, 2016 8:12 pm

day 49
All's well.
Sleep: 5.5 hours, so-so rested.

For lunch contemplated treats, but ended up realizing was full anyway, and would feel bad if stuffed myself. So, regular lunch. Furthermore, less was enough. Meals seem to be growing smaller. Other than no-snacking for some time, and the resulting adjustment, it's all got to do with mindful eating, in particular smaller bites. Satiety hits, and it takes violence to go on, so I quit.

Boy, this lack of sleep is deadly.
Got back home and lay down right away.
Yes, more work than usual, but mainly the sleep thing.

Took a nap. More like, it took me as soon as I lay down.
Feels better.
Yet, while I could have a bite, and dinner is ready, prefer staying on the couch... I'm thinking of the time I'd address this exhaustion with food. And I'm sad, but I know it can't be otherwise.
And how wondrful that I lie down instead of hovering around the kitchen, oblivious to my full belly.

As a result of this lying in bed, late dinner.
No leftover.

Exercise: morning yoga video
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 50

Post by jackn » Wed May 11, 2016 5:45 pm

day 50
Boy, how beautifully 'day 50' rings.
All's well.
Sleep: 4 hours. Not rested.

Not really hungry.

After breakfast, a treat-lunch planned: homemade choc cake and bread.
What's striking is the mental grin that's spread on my face,
like the cat that got the cream. And that I'll remember from time to time, as I go through the morning.
I feel self-conscious about it. Should I take it as natural and even wholesome? Or am I right to wonder about this joy and what it says of how little elese makes me feel this way?
I have no compunctions whatsoever about the treat itself or figure and fat, etc. On the contrary, I feel I'm doing right by myself.
The eager, held-breath posture, on the other hand, I wonder about.

The treat-lunch was delish. Apparently, as it seems is by no means rare, the choc cake improved in the freezer (overnight in the fridge for today).

As I was having lunch, noticed at one point I contemplated dinner and was deciding what I'd have.
Is there a better definiton of gluttony?
Or am I needlessly beating myself up?

I notice attraction to food, in a healthy, love-of-life way, whereas on recent days I was wondering whether my interest diminished.

I'm going through my busiest week in this three-four week stretch that I dreaded, and things are not half as bad as I'd imagined.

In any case, everything is easier and smoother these days, as I eat with measure.
Man, what a treasure.
And crossing my fingers.

Already thinking of a treat-meal for tomorrow, and a walk in the afternoon if I feel up to it. No decisions about the treat-meal, though I have ideas, as I, eh, go with my gut, in the very last minute, whether and what.

Exercise: morning yoga video
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by cedar » Wed May 11, 2016 9:19 pm

50 days Jackn! Fantastic.
Sorry if you've mentioned but with your yoga video..is that off youtube or a site or a personal video? I woke up this morning and felt the need to do yoga instead of Shovel Glove then went for a walk..it felt really good doing yoga and i was thinking i would like to do more regularly.
Have a great day/ night.

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Post by jackn » Thu May 12, 2016 2:00 am

Hey, Cedar, I appreciate the encouragement.

I've been thinking of posting a list of my favorite yoga video channels on the forum. Your post encouraged me to go ahead and do so, so this is where you can find my answer to you: https://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopi ... 710#169710.
Hope you don't mind.
At meals only eat.
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Re: day 50

Post by lpearlmom » Thu May 12, 2016 3:50 am

jackn wrote:
As I was having lunch, noticed at one point I contemplated dinner and was deciding what I'd have.
Is there a better definiton of gluttony?
Or am I needlessly beating myself up?
I vote for "needlessly beating yourself up". In our family we often quote my husbands grandfather who often said "the best time to plan your next meal is at the end of your last meal". We are big foodies in our family and we get a lot of joy out of cooking, trying new restaurants, exploring foods from different cultures etc. I don't think it's a bad thing. Food is life. Literally without it, there is no life. So a love for food is a love for life in my eyes.

Things get out of whack in my opinion when we go on extreme diets, then we may become obsessed with food in an unhealthy way. Meals put food back in its rightful place. We can relax knowing that food will be available on a regular basis and for me the unhealthy obsessing disappeared. Now I think of food much less but I still really enjoying planning meals and restaurant explorations.

I guess you have to decide if your interest in food is a joyful thing or something that is somehow diminishing your quality of life but above all lose the guilt. I don't think it's going to help with anything.

Okay sorry for soapbox and apologize if I'm way off but you're doing great and I don't think there's anything wrong with an enjoyment of food!

Linda :)
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Re: day 50

Post by jackn » Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 am

lpearlmom wrote: Things get out of whack in my opinion when we go on extreme diets, then we may become obsessed with food in an unhealthy way. Meals put food back in its rightful place. We can relax knowing that food will be available on a regular basis and for me the unhealthy obsessing disappeared. Now I think of food much less but I still really enjoying planning meals and restaurant explorations.
Yes, I see, Linda.
And I appreciate your attention, help and advice.
Can't say that enough, how 'meals put food back in its rightful place'.
lpearlmom wrote: I guess you have to decide if your interest in food is a joyful thing or something that is somehow diminishing your quality of life.
Linda :)
Joyful, for sure.
But really, freely and honestly only since I put an absolute end to snacking.

I'll call your attention to the fact that I wasn't worrying about food, figure, body fat and all that horror show.
I was wondering about my thoughts drifting to the next meal while I was eating, for one thing. For another, looking forward to my lunch-treat through my morning at work I was also dubious about.

Yes, food is great, when, like any passion, it's pursued within reason.

I do feel the place food takes up in my life suggests too little joy elsewher...

lpearlmom wrote: Okay sorry for soapbox.
Linda :)
I feel helped and supported.
Thanx and please tell me whenever you think I can benefit...
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Thu May 12, 2016 6:29 am

Now that you've started to be able to maintain your balance on this No S surfboard whilst riding the waves of emotional eating........ do you think you might, sometime in the future, consider shifting those 'treat meals' to the weekend?

The reason I say this is because my attention was kind of drawn to the fact that you were thinking about your next treat meal, just after you'd had a treat meal. Extending the time between treat meals might be your next challenge - if you choose to accept that challenge.

I realise it's your journey, and you've figured out a system that works for you at the moment, but I just felt I needed to ask the question.
I love Everyday Systems :3

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Post by jackn » Thu May 12, 2016 4:38 pm

Thanx for bringing this up, Raw.
All input welcome, and I'm sure it's well-meaning and often helpful.

Yes, I was thinking of the next treat-meal right after one.

The key, though, is that I can only have a treat-meal, namely the treat makes up a meal, like my bread-choc-cake combo. Or, it can be an ordinary junk food savoury meal.
A treat cannot, however, come on top of a meal.

As a result, most of the time the treat thought gets the thumbs down, as I'd much rather have satisfying real food than go for the fleeting titillation of the treat.
That 'drather is gut-level, not some cerebral consideration.
It's what I want, not what I should.
Bottom line, I'll typically have about two treat-meals a week. Three tops.

And, I go along with the treat whenever I really want it, not dodging it with 'reasons'.
I enjoy it freely then.

As a result, it always feels like I'm doing exactly what I want.
What 'I want' and won't ever do if I can help it, is follow every food whim with no limit.
And that feels both doable and right.
No different than my one glass of beer/wine daily limit.

The S-weekends seem way harder to me.
And less helpful in managing desire, as there's that bottling-up towards the glorious weekend.
I feel that every day with me can be a feast, and, often, knowing that is enough.

I think what accounts for the differences between different people here is, of course, the usual personal bents, but, also, the fact that I'd been quite regularly binge eating prior to the last 50 days. I'd binge about once a week, and this lasted years.

Since I stopped snacking and started allowing any treat desired, no binges whatsoever.
Having gone so long without a binge is a miracle I keep forgetting, as by now I've come to take it for granted.
How ungrateful, and careless of me.

Beyond the tricks and tacks, I think there's also readiness.
I think the very same people can be successful in many different paths than the one they're on. I think their success depends as much on being ready as it does on finding a path that works.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Re: day 50

Post by lpearlmom » Thu May 12, 2016 5:52 pm

jackn wrote:
I do feel the place food takes up in my life suggests too little joy elsewhere...
..

Okay that I understand. I bet now that food is becoming normalized for you, you will find other sources of joy in your life. Just give it time. It's a process.
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
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day 51

Post by jackn » Thu May 12, 2016 7:10 pm

day 51
All's well.
Sleep: 4h, so-so rested:

A recurrent observation: coming back home from work, I was thinking about what I'd have for dinner and looking forward to it.
But I knew I was pooped out, so I lay down on the couch.
And now, of course, I'd rather stay on the couch than get up. Yes, I'm hoping for a dinner later, and I don't mean to deprive myself, but it feels like I'll have to be good and make an effort to stand up and drag myself to the kitchen.

Left some over at dinner. First time ever of leaving over some beef. And noticed, belatedly, that I was forcing myself to eat. I like beef, and I guess it hadn't occurred to me that I could have had enough before the portion served was gone.

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At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by jackn » Thu May 12, 2016 7:13 pm

I hear you, Linda.

Thank you.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 52

Post by jackn » Fri May 13, 2016 7:09 pm

day 52
All's well.
Sleep: ?, so-so rested

Nothing tastes as good as peace with food feels

At breakfast, cleared the plate, though could perfectly well stop earlier.

Exercise: morning yoga video
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Fri May 13, 2016 7:52 pm

jackn wrote:Since I stopped snacking and started allowing any treat desired, no binges whatsoever.
This is proof that your system is working for you - I've never been a binge-eater, so I have no understanding of how it feels. I respect you for carving out your own path. Keep going!
I love Everyday Systems :3

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Post by jackn » Sat May 14, 2016 2:01 am

How kind and encouraging, Raw.
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day 53

Post by jackn » Sat May 14, 2016 6:00 pm

day 53
All's well.
Sleep: 5 hours?, not rested

Lack of sleep weighing on me.
The morning yoga was hard to get through, though it was a very moderate workout.

I like my Saturday breakfast and lunch.
Breakfast of sausage and raw veg at the cafe. Yes, cafes in my Lyon neighbourhood allow you to bring in your own food.
Glass of white wine at the cafe in between.
Lunch herb salad: parsley, scallions, hyssop and lovage. Alongside 3 sunny-side-up eggs and einkorn bread and butter.

I feel good body fat-wise, though my belt shows that, in spite of waistline progress, I'm still, say, 1/2 an inch away from the waistline at other periods.
My point here isn't that I absolutely have to nail that notch.
On the contrary.
Again and again, I tell myself that the ultimate test for doing well with food and the body is whether I'd accept my current body and eating as my body and eating for the rest of my life.
There is no doubt in my mind as to my answer: it's a ringing 'yes'.
Whether I lose further fat or not, I'll sign up right away to keep going as is, eating reasonably and not having met some 'ideal', that ever-receding 'ideal'.
At the same time, I think the situation is likely to keep evolving in many ways and on different levels.

Left some over at dinner.
Realized wasn't secure about the end of a meal.
Whenever wish to stop before clearing the plate, not sure. Only stomach protesting against more intake is clear and obeyed confidently, but really,
by then it's some eating past the right measure. Tonight, stopped before was uncomfortable, just because didn't seem eager to go on, and the only reason to go on was
because the food was there.
I think I'm not used to doing it, but, most of all, still not trusting that I won't be hungry or, at worst, that I will be, but that's no big deal.
This is interesting. Promising.

Exercise: morning yoga video
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by jackn » Sat May 14, 2016 6:19 pm

RAWCOOKIE wrote: This is proof that your system is working for you -
I was thinking about the little conversation above.

It occurs to me that not bingeing has come about only in part thanx to this way of eating.
Yes, a firm no-snacking rule and a more formal end-of-meal ritual made for mechanical obstacles on the path to bingeing. In addition, the saner eating patterns, and the loss of some body fat made me feel good, and, thus, more up to life in general.
Important.

I think, though, that at least two more things helped:
  • *The daily check-in - made for a conversation with myself and - when lucky, with others - that was somehow different from the conversation with self in private. I don't know how, I only know it felt good, and necessary.
    *Simply lying down when I'm tired, as opposed to ending up at the table or fridge.
At meals only eat.
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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Sat May 14, 2016 10:38 pm

Great reflection - it's amazing isn't it!

Checking in every day - and using the HabitCal - helps me stay accountable too.

We learn things all the time ....... this evening, I felt a bit hungry when I came home after helping out at the music event I went to. However, I remembered that last time I ate something late in the evening, it made me feel terrible and prevented me from sleeping well. So I was able to stay with the slight feeling of hunger and avoid eating. I had a cup of tea! Now I'm off to bed :) See you tomorrow!
I love Everyday Systems :3

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jackn
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Post by jackn » Sun May 15, 2016 2:26 am

Good for you.

Sleep tight.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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jackn
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day 54

Post by jackn » Sun May 15, 2016 5:08 pm

day 54
All's well.
Sleep: 5.5 hours, so-so rested.

Hungry after breakfast.
But also grading papers... the usual.
Thank God I don't buy these comfort calls anymore.

Delish treat-lunch, bread and choc cake.
Though the portion is generous, it always leaves me empty.
I think it's in the nature of processed, sugar-loaded food.
The upside is that I really need to want it to have it, as I'm forgoing a satisfying, real food meal...
That trade-off rule has been really helpful.
If it's just 'do I go for more' at the end of a meal, it becomes some sort of moral and willpower question.
As a trade-off, it's about what I want more. All about desire. Works, er... a treat.

Hope on the sleep front, if slim.
Read that cruciferous vegetables contain goitrogen, which inhibits production of the thyroid hormone, thereby leading, among other possibilities,
to waking up at 3-4am.
Bingo.
Had seen this before, but didn't register.
Sure hope this is it, as, for one thing, it'll help, but also will mean that it's not due to stress and pressures at work.
The remedy recommended: cook them. Indeed, I've been having tons of broccoli and kohlrabi raw.
In addition, raw parsley contains oxalic acid, which inhibits iron uptake.
Article: http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/sarah/
The whole thing is controversial, and, really, not sufficiently studied.
No matter, I only need to do the easy experiment.

I'm going to go through a trial, reducing, then eliminating any cabbage_family veg, and cooking them while they're around. Cooking lowers the amount of goitrogen.
Also, have Brazil nuts and algae, to boost iodine, as the direct effect of goitrogens,
through which they affect the thyroid gland, is the messing up of iodine uptake by the thyroid.
Crossing fingers...
Anyway, hope is good, and I'll be fine with it not panning out.
At least a lead.

These days, I now see, always start off with some, but limited, energy. Then, by the afternoon, very little is left, and I'm irritable and weak already at the end
the day's work. At home, I basically want to lie down, and then I go to bed early. I end up waking up after little, unrestorative sleep, and it starts all over.
A few years ago, I went through a period of similarly little sleep. I'd gotten to a stage where I'd shuffle through the day, fighting just to keep on,
as even mere walking wasn't a given. At the time, I put it down to pressures at work, which may or may not have been the case, I don't know. I don't know what
I'd eat back then, either. I underwent a battery of medical tests, and consulted several doctors. None of them thought of food as a source.
None of them found anything helpful.
Yesterday morning, fatigue was such that, for the first time in years. I shuffled my way up the hill to the market place.
The thought that this may very well have a physical basis relaxes me, makes me feel stronger, regardless of what the upshot is.
Will see.

Exercise: morning yoga video.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by lpearlmom » Sun May 15, 2016 6:05 pm

jackn wrote: I think, though, that at least two more things helped:
  • *The daily check-in - made for a conversation with myself and - when lucky, with others - that was somehow different from the conversation with self in private. I don't know how, I only know it felt good, and necessary.
    *Simply lying down when I'm tired, as opposed to ending up at the table or fridge.
Writing is such a powerful tool isn't it? And there's something different about knowing other people are "listening" (at least sometimes) and the feedback that comes with it. A bit more comforting than writing into the empty void although sometimes that's necessary too.

So sorry about lack of sleep/energy. That sounds tough. So important to give yourself permission to rest when we needed. Do you have trouble falling asleep or do you just keep waking up at night/early morning?

Anyway hopefully the dietary changes will help. Those changes can make a big difference which is something I'm realizing more and more as I age.

Best of luck!

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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jackn
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Post by jackn » Mon May 16, 2016 1:43 am

lpearlmom wrote:Do you have trouble falling asleep or do you just keep waking up at night/early morning?
Fall asleep as soon as head hits pillow.
And wake up in the middle of the night, after about, give or take, five hours.

It is about how long a sleep, in part.
Mainly, though, it's about that feeling of waking up without energy, lacking that 'batteries charged' morning hum, that feeling that as children we take for granted, never even noticing it.

I'm trying to go on on an even keel, while waiting for things to improve.
I definitely notice irritation and idleness these days.

Helpful and encouraging to be sharing here.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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kaalii
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Post by kaalii » Mon May 16, 2016 8:56 am

hey, jackn...
the sleeping sounds like a real struggle... do you feel like yoga is helpfull?

when reading your thread i kept remembering couple of articles i read about some research of how our ancestors seem to had been sleeping... in 2 times...
do you think going back to sleep after a period of being awake could work for you, too?

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jackn
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Post by jackn » Mon May 16, 2016 10:16 am

kaalii wrote:do you feel like yoga is helpfull?
Don't know.
I do think it's helpful in general, much like exercise. To me, personally, it also feels like a sort of meditation, so perhaps more/differently than other exercise.

Yes, I do think exercise/yoga helps me with sleep, specifically, too, but not these days, it looks.
I went through a similar phase s few years ago. It then improved, and, among other things, I started exercising. So, for what it's worth, this is what makes me think it helps.
But these days, the sleep issue is either stable or getting worse.

Wait and see, at this point.
kaalii wrote:do you think going back to sleep after a period of being awake could work for you, too?
[/url]
It does, or, used to.
I've had this happen quite a number of times, though I had no faith in it.
And I might be wrong sometimes to give up and get up without really testing whether I might not fall asleep again after a while.
Lately, though, it seemed like I was so wide awake when I woke up in the middle of the night, that I usually didn't try, or gave up soon after starting...
I guess I ought to have more faith in this, esp since it's worked quite a few times.

There's also some napping early in the afternoon, when I get a chance and am totally zonked out. Unrelated to your point, though, is it.

I am hopeful about

How nice of you, Kaali, to pay attention to this and make specific suggestions.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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kaalii
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Post by kaalii » Mon May 16, 2016 5:14 pm

jackn wrote:
There's also some napping early in the afternoon, when I get a chance and am totally zonked out. Unrelated to your point, though, is it.

I am hopeful about

.
no, actually, it is really the point... whatever works... i am a practicing naps and siesta also all my life... whenever i can and need, of course... but yes, if i have a night that i wake up in the middle of (usually because of some worry or even positive excitement about the following day) - i just go back to bed - reassuring myself that even if i dont fall asleep a deep relaxation will do me much good, too... and then i fall asleep... :D
i did swear to avoid sleep medications, though... luckily it has never come to that point...
oh, and i think you are lucky to have the ability to take naps - some people i know who have troubles with sleeping also have trouble to have a daytime nap... it must be such a torture... :(
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day 55 - odd

Post by jackn » Mon May 16, 2016 7:56 pm

day 55
Odd day, doesn't feel right, don't know what to say
Sleep: 5.5 hours. Rested.

Odd day, as
lunch was somewhat too rich, as planned it as such
dinner left over some, but also too much served
In short, three meals, no snacks, but meals a little excessive.
No big deal.
Even on the contrary, as, again, long weekend, even with tons of work, and not snacking, just three square meals.

Wow. Haven't woken up like that in eons.
Engines humming. Feel thankful like a baby.x

As go on with having peace with food, recongnizing a new positive force for change.
All along, there have been well-balanced rules or guidelines, balanced between desire and reason.
With time, habit keeps building up, adding to the ability to stay on course.
Now, there seems to be a third ally: the mere accumulation of experience builds a store of positive feelings issuing
from the state of peace with food.
When the usual brain chatter suggests snacking or overeating, this store of positive feeling helps nipping it in the bud.
It's different from reasoning and debating with the urges, which is often doomed in advance.
It's a feeling that pouts and stamps its feet just as well as the spoiled brat inside clamouring for more.
The store of good feelings wants to hang around.
There's fear of losing that.
And that's a force for good.

Left a bite over at breakfast.
Caught myself eating as 'a task' - 'must put away these veg and beef'.
Hope to improve this. A promising lead.


Exercise: morning yoga video
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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jackn
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Post by jackn » Mon May 16, 2016 8:03 pm

Oh, boy, Kaali.
No meds, doesn't even remotely occur to me.

I only see doctors for test, etc.

Have no faith in those pill-pushers whatsoever.

But let me stop here before I get on my high horse.
Or, I guess I should comme off it already.

Thanx, Kaali.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue May 17, 2016 3:13 am

jackn wrote:
Have no faith in those pill-pushers whatsoever.

Sorry you've had some bad experiences but trust me they're not all bad. Most doctors care very much about their patients. My husband is very conscientious about prescribing medicine . He only does what's absolutely necessary and when the pros outweigh the cons.
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jackn
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Post by jackn » Tue May 17, 2016 10:59 am

O oh, there's a doctor in the house...

Guess I put my foot in it.
Sorry, Linda, and I'm sure your husband is as caring and conscientious, as you say.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 56

Post by jackn » Tue May 17, 2016 3:56 pm

day 56
All's well.
Sleep: 6 hours. Quite rested.

Dinner, ate a lot.
How to handle this?

Exercise: morning yoga video
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue May 17, 2016 4:42 pm

Okay no worries!
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

cedar
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Post by cedar » Wed May 18, 2016 10:36 am

Hi Jackn..I'm sure you've heard it all and had people give lots of advice (so take this or leave this) but I've just recently discovered podcasts or audio books to help me sleep. I go through periods of having trouble sleeping and I just found listening to audio books puts me right to sleep! It's good because unlike relaxation CDs, there is no pressure- I actually want to listen to the story or interview and next thing I know I've fallen asleep and I have to re listen to them on a walk or in the car the next day. Anyway..I'm excited to discover this so thought I'd pass it on...and the times I don't fall asleep it doesn't matter because it prevents me from lying there worrying about not being able to sleep!

All the best.

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Post by jackn » Wed May 18, 2016 11:21 am

cedar wrote:I'm sure you've heard it all
No, haven't ever heard this one, and I'm glad you chose to share.
I'm here to learn and share, Cedar.
Advice thus is always welcome, all the more so when it's from personal experience and original.

Yes, having said that, especially regarding sleep, the advice often given fall exasperatingly short of the mark.
cedar wrote:I've just recently discovered podcasts or audio books to help me sleep. I go through periods of having trouble sleeping and I just found listening to audio books puts me right to sleep!... I actually want to listen to the story or interview and next thing I know I've fallen asleep. ...I'm excited to discover this...
I find it to be a pearl, Cedar.
I mean, who knows, but very promising.
And I do listen to podcasts a great deal, so...
I already know, for what it's worth, that I'll sometimes manage to nap in midday by surfing, reading text, that is, and then my eyes get heavy.

I'll add one last caveat: with me, it's almost never falling asleep that's the issue, but, rather, waking up some four hours later.
I guess I can still try then.
And, again, I do know that at times, I'll stay in bed, reading, and manage to fall asleep again within an hour or less. Those nights are good, as I think two sleep periods allow me to feel more rested than one continuous one of the same length as the two added up.
Logistics issues, too: I'd have to get up to the laptop, etc, for one thing, and, then, won't the sound, however soft, prematurely wake me up again later on?
What do you do, by the way? I gathered you just allowed yourself to drift into sleep, but I wonder, do you first turn off the sound?
And perhaps you've got a more convenient set-up, such that it's by your bedside and handy.
An mp3 player will work, but my speakers are hooked up to the computer.

Sorry, TMI, isn't it?!
The idea is promising, and I'm quite sure I'll try it.

Very kind and helpful.
Thanx for the help and attention, Cedar.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 57

Post by jackn » Thu May 19, 2016 5:49 am

day 57
All's well.
Sleep: 7 hours. So-so rested.

Something happened with sleep.
Early days, though.
If this change is for real, that is for the long run, I doubt it's due to the cabbage family iodine-inhibition-low-thyroid story.
Too rapid a change (overnight).
Could perhaps be the shift from raw to cooked per se, rather than the particular details of cruciferous veg.
Anyway, miracle.
And I have clearly turned against raw in my mind.

Treat-lunch: bread-choc-cake.
As has repeatedly occured recently, at least with this, admittedly, sugar-loaded, bake, I enjoy it while having it, and then feel
somewhat put off by the sickly sweet after-taste.
On the other hand, no hunger.
Though the meal makes for a very generous serving, I feel the lasting satiety mainly stems from the buttery make-up of this recipe, and in spite of its high sugar.
To be followed.

Had late dinner, as not particularly hungry earlier, and evening meeting.
Since had work to do still, and needed to turn in not too late, allowed myself to work and eat at same time.
Noted how chewing habit, though moderate, still held even through the working.

It's been a few nights now that I've felt like I had too much at dinner.
Yet, it's not due to eating more than usual.
Rather, it seems like the usual is becoming too much.
I think.
Will see, and may act upon it.

Exercise: morning yoga video
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 58

Post by jackn » Thu May 19, 2016 5:57 pm

day 58

Sleep: 5.5 hours, 1 hour's pause, so-so rested

Feel good.
Feel grateful.
Going on two months.
Learnt a lot, about myself and my eating.
Wish to pursue this path. Calmly and consistently.

The shift to cooked veg seems like a boon.
Never would have guessed.

Left over some at lunch.
Heeded that lovely 'waist belt' that forms once satiated.
Usually, I'd push through.
And little freezer tray that I keep for leftovers is full.
Will have it tomorrow night.

A very intensive work day.
Reward myself at the end of the day with a treat-meal.
A vegetarian tandoori wrap that's made by a next-door greasy spoon, accompanied by some lettuce, onion, carrots.

Exercise: morning yoga video
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by kaalii » Thu May 19, 2016 6:35 pm

looks good!
2 months yay!!!
nice to have you here, jackn! :)
keep going!!
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Post by lpearlmom » Fri May 20, 2016 12:03 am

I agree--so glad you found your way here. You have such a lovely way with words and tremendous insight.

Keep up the great work!

Linda &#128526;
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
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jackn
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Post by jackn » Fri May 20, 2016 5:00 am

Hey, Kaali, it means a lot to me.
Thank you.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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jackn
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Post by jackn » Fri May 20, 2016 5:01 am

Hey, Linda, you've paid me a visit.

I'm flattered.

Good luck to us all.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

cedar
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Post by cedar » Fri May 20, 2016 7:10 am

Sorry Jackn, I've had technical difficulties logging on for some reason..a message comes up about cookies too large or something? Then I logged in with my phone and wrote you a long reply to your question about the audio and I can see now it didn't come through.. So I'll try again :oops:

I listen to the audio /podcasts with my phone or ipad and i use ear phones. That way it doesn't disturb my husband, and if I wake during the night it's easy to just put them in press play without up.. I usually fall asleep with them in..sometimes I half wake up and pull them out and set them on the bedside table or I've woken up in the morning and they are out but can't remember me doing so. Different things work for different people.

I can see that you've had some success with sleep though..cooked vegies..very interesting. I know the Chinese recommend cooked vegies over raw as it's more grounding and kind in the digestion.
And 2 months! How fantastic..that's awesome.

I agree with Kaalii and linda..great to have your wise words on here.

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Post by jackn » Fri May 20, 2016 11:44 am

OK, Cedar.
Got the earbuds thing.
Thanx.

I've had connection issues myself at times.
For what it's worth, in my case deleting the site's cookie helped. It then gets refreeshed, of course, once I log on.

I'm on a 'wait-and-see' basis with sleep, but the cooked veg suddenly struck me as very convincing, mainly for the anti-nutrient plant-defense thing.
I'd never listen to it in the past.
I do keep up with quite a bit of raw, though, just conservative, traditional choices, such as lettuce.
And no raw cruciferous veg.
I'm not saying it's 'the right way' - it's where I'm at.

I appreciate the visit and the enccouragement.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 59

Post by jackn » Fri May 20, 2016 5:08 pm

day 59

Sleep: 5 hours. So-so rested.

Boy, am I uninterested in food once the morning workout is over.
I desire it some when I wake up, and once or twice during the workout will think
of it.
But when done, it feels like work to eat.
Of course, once I start and the taste comes in, it's more or less as usual, I think.

Raw meal for breakfast. Delish: mixed nuts, apple and goat cheese to accompany raw veg.
The making of this farmers' market goat cheese uses no heat throughout the fermentation, curdling and whatever stages I don't know about.
It's very good.
This particular cheese was about twice as big as the usual one.
I was glad to stop at about half.
I do still have raw veg, but shifted away from cruciferous to traditional stuff like lettuce and carrot.

Treat-dinner - choc-cake-bread.

Exercise: morning yoga video.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 60

Post by jackn » Sun May 22, 2016 5:28 am

day 60

Sleep: 3.5 hours. Weak.

Was tempted to pass on the morning workout, but went for a very light yoga flow finally.
A bit of the martinet at work here, undoubtedly, but mostly knew needed movement and how much better everything would feel.
Indeed, as always, feel grateful and alive at end of workout.
I work out to hang on to life.

Put down short sleep to last night's chocolate cake.
More and more wary of both how rich it is and the portion.
At this point feel like will go for other treats, but these things fade.
At least, a modified recipe and smaller portion.
Time will tell.
Also good, in that this jolt to the body isn't the first one, and I might be getting the message, however slowly.

A sunny day, with a market morning and an afternoon street festival where a friend will be singing in a choir.

Exercise: morning yoga video.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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day 61

Post by jackn » Sun May 22, 2016 5:00 pm

day 61
All's well.
Sleep: 6 hours. Quite rested.

Again and again, and amazingly, forced to realize how I use food as respite.
Was somewhat hungry through the morning. To do with me doing school work this morning?
Then, lay down for a little break before lunch.
And, now, it wouldn't take wild horses, true, but I'd have to make an effort to rise and eat...

Found yestreday's lunch interesting.
Had a greasy spoon tub of chunky fries along with raw endives and carrots.
The cook likes me and served me a heaping portion, say 150% of the standard one.
Right away, I discarded whatever exceeded the edges of the tub.
By no means sth I'm in the habit of doing.
Then, as was getting close to bottom of tub, was starting to wonder about enough.
Ended up discarding the last five fries.
Not only was OK, but ten minutes later, of course, felt very satisfied, even a touch beyond.
Hope to improve this business of calling an end to the meal at the right point.

Also, varying exercise diet.
Thinking that variety needed to keep things fresh and for comprehensiveness,
but also not to run the risk of repetitive stress injury.
RawCookie and Linda have reported exercise accidents, and I've had my share.
The yoga videos, though different each day, do take up similar poses by and large.
So, went back to bodyweight routine.
Ideally, would like a daily practice of which a third would be yoga, a third bodyweight and a third cardio.
But should be sustainable and friendly to self, not grim determination.

Yesterday's dinner, too, interesting to me.
Being put off by a recent overly-rich cake brought that about - looking for real food treats.
And, that's one of the things that attracted my attention on the site Cedar pointed to, Eat like a Normal Person:
the occasional rich, real food meals.
Went for a richer, bigger meal than usual. Was very nice, and I'm pleased with it.
Just in case: Israeli salad - tomato, cuke, onion, which I garnished with fava beans;
bread, butter and hard cheese;
and sunny side up eggs.

Exercise: morning bodyweight routine
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Sun May 22, 2016 6:16 pm

Interesting to read about your experience with the chips - that's a big deal!

We've had a lovely sunny Sunday here in the UK - hope yours has been equally fine.
I love Everyday Systems :3

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Re: day 61

Post by kaalii » Mon May 23, 2016 7:52 am

jackn wrote:day 61

Ideally, would like a daily practice of which a third would be yoga, a third bodyweight and a third cardio.
But should be sustainable and friendly to self, not grim determination.
the days of rest from exercise are also important, no?

i also agree with reinhard when he says (about shovelglove, but in my mind it works also for other types of activities):
These are the movements we were made for, after all, the movements that enabled us to survive. They might not target specific muscles quite as efficiently as the contrived motions of the gym, but that seemed to me a vastly less important consideration; what you won't do -- because it is painfully boring -- won't help you.
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Post by jackn » Mon May 23, 2016 4:31 pm

RAWCOOKIE wrote:Interesting to read about your experience with the chips - that's a big deal!
I thought so, Raw.
I shudder to think of the numerous occasions when I ended up eating stuff just because it was 'given' to me or was lying around.

I don't know what would have happened had I kept all the fries and, then, tried to have, say, 2/3 of the fries.
Discarding a third to begin with was safe, and I don't need tests. Will cross that bridge when I come across it.

Leaving over some, be it five fries, felt really good.

Can this turn into the default, automatic pilot, behaviour, rather than eating whatever happens to be at hand?
Time will tell.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Re: day 61

Post by jackn » Mon May 23, 2016 4:56 pm

Kaali, you talked about rest and about preferring functional movement.

Though the temptation to lie about doing nothing forever lurks in the background, my workouts feel like the fulfillment of a need to me, not like a chore.

I do them first thing in the morning, and they feel like a launching of the day to a good start.
I actually do feel how the body changes as I go through them, and it feels way better once they're done.
Lots of warm-up and cool-down, and the more strenuous stuff stays doable. All in all, 50-60 minutes on the average.

I aim to make an effort, yet not such that I'd dread it next time and shirk it.
Doesn't feel like I'm battered.

I only feel bored when I get into a rut and repeat the same workout.
But, usually, it's rather the beauty and the richness of the experience that I notice - mainly in yoga, but more generally, too.
The body changes daily, the aspects of the exercise that are noted or understood change, too.
And, often, it's videos. Since the offer is mind-boggling, it's different from one day to the next.

I'm not out to build muscle or whatever.
It's about feeling good and keeping in shape.
It's guided by a balance between pleasure and challenge.
If mastery occurs or gains in strength, great, but they happen, they're not set as a goal which dictates everything else.

And it's ongoing learning, like any field you get into, I guess.
It's a conversation with my body.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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jackn
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day 62

Post by jackn » Mon May 23, 2016 7:20 pm

day 62
All's well.
Sleep: 3.5 hours.

Leaving over some more and more often, I think.
It feels good. Yes, because I know I eat too much, but also simply on an immediate body sensation level.
Has to do with general awareness to the question, and, specifically, with awareness during the meal - chewing, paying attention to the experience...
Don't know if such occasions are flukes or something that's here to stay.

Exercise: morning yoga video.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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jackn
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day 63

Post by jackn » Tue May 24, 2016 7:21 pm

day 63
All's well.
Sleep: 5 hours. So-so rested. Afternoon nap.

Both at lunch and dinner, could very clearly feel the 'belly belt' I get once I've had enough to eat.
Yet, went on to polish plate.
This is something I'd like to improve.
Both fear of not eating enough, and finding it hard to part with the food are involved. More so the latter, if I had to call it. The hard-to-part-with-the-food thing, in turn, has to do with two things. One is obviously the pleasure food procures. Another, though, is the rest afforded by the meal - time-out, no work, no pressure, just to self and gratification.
Could perhaps deal with that by allowing some rest time following meal, instead of going back to duties right away.
Will see.

And, if polishing the plate is so ingrained, I could serve less...?
In the long run, though, I'd like to be able to say, OK, enough, see you later.

Exercise: morning bodyweight video.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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lpearlmom
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Re: day 63

Post by lpearlmom » Wed May 25, 2016 5:18 am

jackn wrote:Another, though, is the rest afforded by the meal - time-out, no work, no pressure, just to self and gratification.
Could perhaps deal with that by allowing some rest time following meal, instead of going back to duties right away.
I think you hit on a key issue here. Ellyn Satter talks about how you should never say to a child things like "when you're done eating, you need to start your homework or clean your room or whatever". It's as if eating is the only legitimate excuse for not being constantly busy. It's better to say in an hour you need to do *blank* so kids can know they don't have to keep eating just to gain down time.

So yes I think giving yourself permission to just be lazy for a bit might be helpful. Sometimes when I find myself reaching for food in between meals, I'll think what is it that I really need. More often than not it's a few minutes lying down.

As far as stopping before you get too full. That's a tough one. If it's on my plate, I can pretty much guarantee you that I'll eat it. So yeah I try to put not too much, not too little. Would be better if I could stop for internal reasons.

Again I'll reference Ellyn Satter. She has a whole section in her book about finding your natural stopping place. I was able to find mine but I had to eat A LoT of food! Here it is if you're interested: http://ellynsatterinstitute.org/cms-ass ... secch4.pdf

Anyway you're continuing to do lots of good work and making strides. I hope you're feeling positive about the process overall?

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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jackn
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Re: day 63

Post by jackn » Wed May 25, 2016 6:16 am

lpearlmom wrote:Ellyn Satter talks about how you should never say to a child things like "when you're done eating, you need to start your homework or clean your room or whatever". It's as if eating is the only legitimate excuse for not being constantly busy. It's better to say in an hour you need to do *blank* so kids can know they don't have to keep eating just to gain down time.
This is golden, Linda, and, again, you crack me up.

On top of it, it's interesting that, just like you, I found lying down between and before meals very helpful - in itself, and in how it exposed the false attraction to food.
This was the first time, however, I realized it held as well as far as the end-point, and I'm glad others have found this to be the case.

I appreciate the link, and will study it. Also Ellyn Satter more generally.
lpearlmom wrote: I hope you're feeling positive about the process overall?
The short answer is yes, very much.
Detail in today's post, next.

Appreciate the input and attention.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

RAWCOOKIE
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Re: day 63

Post by RAWCOOKIE » Wed May 25, 2016 6:31 am

jackn wrote:it's interesting that, just like you, I found lying down between and before meals very helpful
:lol: This conjured up for me an image of a Roman laying down eating - perhaps you were a Roman in a past life :lol: (only joking - your exchange with Linda tickled me!) I'm going to read that interesting link now too - love this sharing ;)
I love Everyday Systems :3

13.6.15 124.25lbs
11.11.21 101.00lbs

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jackn
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Re: day 63

Post by jackn » Wed May 25, 2016 4:56 pm

RAWCOOKIE wrote:an image of a Roman laying down eating
Sorry, Raw, didn't get this image: 'Laying down eating'?!
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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jackn
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day 64

Post by jackn » Wed May 25, 2016 4:59 pm

day 64
All's well.
Sleep: 6 hours. Quite rested.

Amazing how sleep affects the way I see my body.
Obviously, feel more up to life when rested,
but then there's also something about the body that I see time and again.
It feels lighter.
Obviously, it must feel heavier, less wieldy, after sleepless nights.

For breakfast, a twist on my raw meal.
Usually the garnishes are apple, nuts and avocado, namely sugar and fat.
This time, I tried butter, olives and raw go at cheese.
In other words, savoury-fat instead of sweet-fat.
Was very good.
Good to have another colour in my palette.
And perhaps two raw meals some days?
Above all not in the sense of restriction and the skinny wild goose chase - just when and if it feels like it.

I love the workout-breakfast-shower morning sequence.
Feels right. Feels nourishing in more ways than one.
I guess lots of self-care.

I love the well-paced road so far.
Observe and adjust. Stay in comfort zone.
Don't clench teeth and restrict according to some guru's absolute truth.
Properly-fed bodies should be a no-brainer, should be something we do with ease.
We're made to, after all.

Over time, no-snacking works two miracles on top of habit formation.
For one thing, the prolonged experience becomes such a positive experience that
it's an asset I don't want to lose when a snack-whim sneaks in.
Come to think of it, though, I'm not aware of any snack thoughts any more.
A second bonus is the effect on the meal experience.
Since the meal is all there is, I come relatively hungry to the meal.
As a result, I'm much more sensitive to the experience of eating -
the taste, the gradual blunting of appetite...

At dinner, left over a bit.
For sure, could have stopped earlier - belly belt was there, talking to me, but overrode it.

Please let this go on.

Exercise: morning bodyweight routine, afternoon walk in town.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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kaalii
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Post by kaalii » Wed May 25, 2016 5:52 pm

sounds great, jackn! relaxing into so many insights... awesome!
Age:40
BMI: 18.8
Body Fat %: 17.6
in it for maintenance and, more importantly, sanity!!

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