jackn's daily

[jackn]

Starting on Tue 22.3.16.
Starting at 8:30.
Starting in a vicious, self-hating, generally full of loathing, mood.
Starting after an evening-to-evening binge.
Starting after stuffing myself with anything within reach, often foodstuffs I really don't care for.
In short, starting from the pits.

Have already had a week or so on the NoS, and went well, but then went into a binge over the weekend.
So, didn't 'go well'.

Will take it one day at a time.

Mean to check in early in the day for the day before.

Will appreciate any feedback.
Will appreciate partners.

Thanks to the forum.
Thanks to reinhard.

[lpearlmom]

Welcome and sorry you're at such a low point. We've all been there for sure. Nos is the only way out of it as far as I've been able to tell.

I know the weekend bingeing doesn't feel good but technically you're still within the NoS rules so it's okay. S days eventually sort themselves out for most of us. Try to just focus on N days for now. Once that's a strong habit you can see if you need to tweak S days or not. They may just naturally get less chaotic but one thing at a time.

You can do this and definitely post often if you can. So many wise and supportive people here!

Best of luck.

Linda

[jackn]

I hear you, Linda.
Thanx.

[jackn]

First, I felt like checking in now, the evening of my first day, just since I'm free and in order to consolidate the end of eating for the day by checking in.

It's also occurred to me that I might wish to scatter S-days throughout the week in the form of individual meals.
I had already thought I'd go for three meals on S-days as well, except that they'd be a lot looser in makeup and quantity. I thought it'd help in not turning the day into a binge. Meals are clear.
But, then, why not scatter the privileged meals? Even force myself to have them. I'm thinking six meals taken at any time during the week.
Don't know, but am tempted to give it a shot.
'Force myself' as I'm familiar with a saintly sort of streak of 'clean' eating, during which the urges probably grow unawares, only to raise their ugly head and wreak havoc when the breach occurs.

Anyway, so good to be able to share.
I'm grateful.

It never ceases to amaze me that I constantly for for poor, excessive and miserable eating, given how great I feel when I just eat with measure.

jackn

[lpearlmom]

I know it's tempting to spread your S events throughout the day but it can become a slippery slope. It's very important to have clear boundaries so I guess it could work as long as you didn't take your S meals in a spontaneous way. If you predetermined exactly when you took your S meals and stuck to it, that could work.

Anyway it's okay to experiment. Glad you're feeling good after a day of eating moderately. It really is such a good feeling.

Hope today goes well!

Linda

[oolala53]

If you had success with N days as is, I highly suggest you stay with them. There is a real advantage to not having sweets for multiple days in a row.

If you decide to experiment, I also highly suggest that you do it at least a week at time. Do not change stream midway through the week, and especially not on the spot.

Bingeing on weekends is not a sign of things not going well, as long as you can get back to N days. I had wild weekends for longer than most people would consider acceptable, but eventually, I got tired of them, and did what I needed.

I also went through a tough time after four years, though I gained only a small amount back. Now things are easier than ever, and I weigh almost the least of my entire adult life.

[jackn]

Linda, how nice to hear from you.

I get your point.
And perhaps so.
I do, however, feel that I need to see for myself, namely through trial, and, oh well, error.

I looked up Rachel Naomi Remen, but only in a cursory way. I'd like to learn more about her ideas. Lots of sources around, which I should get to before too long.

Will you say a word or two, or refer to another thread, if you prefer, about your experience with No-S so far?

[jackn]

So, second day complete, and, if I don't get steamrollered by a binge before I go to bed, it'll have been day 2.

Today, I told (high school) students of mine that wanting means action, paying the price, not merely wishing for.
And I felt all too aware of my recurrent bingeing even though I 'want' to stop it.
What price am I not willing to pay?

But I actually don't think it's about a moral failure, but about habits and finding out what works for me. At this point, I'm working, if that's the word, on both.

I feel on the stuffed side, ate too much, but not at all bingeing.
Can only look forward to the feeling tomorrow morning of waking up without a binge-hangover, clean, light and self-loving.

[lpearlmom]

Hi jackn

I'm the exact same way. I like to learn by trying for myself what works. I'm happy to share my NoS experience. If you want more detail, feel free to skim read my daily check-in thread. It's pretty much my entire life just put right out there. A lot of it isn't specifically about NoS but it's all about the same journey so it's there.

I started NoS out of desperation. My eating was out of control and all I thought about was eating and my weight. So much energy went into deciding whether or not I should eat, how much to eat, what to eat, etc.. NoS changed all that almost overnight. With clear boundaries, I was able to make peace with food.

I stuck with NoS for a year and really had a strong habit and a good relationship with food. This was huge for me but I didn't lose much weight and was still 50-60 lbs overweight. Then my husband had a heart attack and had to lose weight, change the way he ate, etc. I joined him and dropped 40 lbs in about 8 months. I still stuck to NoS but ate healthier/lighter food and started exercising. I've kept with the healthier food (I'm mostly vegan now) but stopped exercising so I'm planning to add some exercise again and try to get another 10-15 lbs off in order to reach my goal weight.

Anyway that's me. I agree that overeating is not a moral failure but it feels terrible and with NoS, it really is possible to feel like a "normal" eater. I never thought it'd be possible for me and I hope you can find that same peace too.

I look forward to following your journey.

Linda

Ps I'm glad you like my quotation. It reminds me to let go of the past.

[oolala53]

Jack, I'm a high school teacher and so often think about areas in my life- not food these days- in which I'm a hypocrite when I'm talking to students or even in the way I act sometimes. MUCH harder than eating to contend with!

[jackn]

Dear Oolala.
How nice of you to share this advice and experience.

I don't know where this is going.
I'm following my hunches and feelings. I think it's part of the path.
I think NoS is wise, but I think that to make it mine, I need to adapt it.
As anything.

Congrats on your story.
As to binges, yes, there's the weight, but I've been at it for years, I feel humiliated when I binge, and it undermines my confidence, self-esteem and self-love.
It's, I think, become more important to me than losing weight. I'm working on not bingeing more than I am on getting a decent waistline.

[jackn]

Hi Linda.
"I started NoS out of desperation. My eating was out of control and all I thought about was eating and my weight" is pretty much where I stand. I'd say more fear and fatigue than desperation, but the gist is the same.

And, indeed, 'peace with food' is the main thing I'd like to reach. Peace with myself, life, issues... Not that all will be well, but that I'll live with it and won't food-treat the distress.

Certainly don't mean to open any food-religion debates, but I'll just mention that I was vegetarian for twenty years or so, the last two-three of which I went vegan. Went back to animal food about four or so years ago, don't know, and never looked back.

As to Rachel Naomi Remen, it's a pleasing and promising discovery.
Thank you.
I listened to one interview with her, and was struck by the wisdom and force of her words.
I think it's no conincindence she's herself suffered with debilitating disease. Kind of allowed her to see the human condition with a magnifying glass.
I liked her emphasis on stories and the two 'uses' she found to suffering, namely growing compassionate and developing one's full identity.

I mean to listen around some more, and I may very well read sth by her.

[jackn]

Hi, oolala.
So funny you should be a high school teacher too.
Is bingeing an occupational hazard with us?

'Harder than eating'?!... Am hard put to imagine such a thing in my case...

Hats off that you recognize such a thing.
Yes, they're people and it's the nicest thing, perhaps, about the work.
Today, on the one hand, I had a class where several students act like victims, and, on the other hand, a student who got a perfect grade on a piece of writing tapped me on the shoulder, which was one of the most gratifying experiences I'd ever had. It wasn't about the grade, needless to say, but about the recognition.

I'm glad you're coming in on this conversation.

[jackn]

Ok, night of day three.

Posting to note that, but also some detail and an anecdote.

Of course, getting this invincible feeling - this is going to last forever, I beat it, etc.
Have been through it for way too long not to know better.

NoS I find wise and helpful, but here are some modifications I've made right off the bat.
As to meals, I'm influenced by Tim Ferris's The Four Hour Body. In particular, I go for small variety, repeating similar, well-liked meals. Also the content of two of the meals is borrowed from Ferris: protein and veg with beans. This could be eggs, fish or beef. I love it all. A third meal is a practically-raw meal I enjoy: nuts, French comte cheese, avocado and raw veg. The latter are usually kohlrabi, broccoli or red endive.
I'll have other carbs, as much, if I feel like it, but legumes work well for me. Lentils are a treat.

As to quantity, I don't go by plate. I go by the protein portion. The meal is over when it is over, which means altogether, give or take, a 100g of protein, a cup or less of legumes and, give or take, 500 grams of veg.

I only eat when eating, not watching or reading. I do allow music, however.
To help me end the meal, a big issue with me, I brush my teeth right away.
I've taken to deep squatting (crouching; behind at heels almost and chest kept open) when eating. It started as an alternative to sitting and as a form of mobility (?), and I'm growing more used to it. It's quite fun, but I mention it here mainly to say that it helps me end the meal, as, though I'm getting used to it, deep squatting is self-limiting in that it does get harder the longer I sit.

As to snacks, I always snack first thing in the morning. I borrowed this from Tim Ferris's The Four Hour Body - the practice of having 30g of protein within 30 minutes of getting up. I have beef and broccoli. It's small, doesn't weight me down, so I can do my morning workout, and, most of all, leaves me open to food, yet not overly eager.
Since this works so well, I allow myself to have such a snack in the evening as well, if the meal is not ready and I'm hungry. This has only happened twice, and I'd rather have the meal ready, but it's sth I mean to do freely if the need arises.

Finally, about S days, I still have no idea, but at this point, as mentioned in an earlier post, I mean to have meals, not graze all day long. While I mean to allow myself anything, I'll also aim to go for half-way decent stuff, which I can't define any better at this point, and which, anyway, is not all too clear to me, either. But the goal would be to allow leeway without going overboard.

[jackn]

End of day 4.
Went well.
Happy with it, as the weekend is often bingey.
Not over yet, though, as it's a long Easter weekend.

Had bread and chocolate cake for a planned extra about two hours after breakfast.
Yet, turned out to have served as lunch, as, when I next felt like eating, it was dinner time (which I have early, 5-5:30'ish.

Things are OK, but when will the devil strike...?

[jackn]

Morning of day 5.

Last night, felt like eating 'something'.
Peckish.

Struggled with it, not too hard, and went to bed without having anything.
I don't know whether I did right.
I'd have been ok with a light meal, if it were taken properly, sitting down and managing to call it a day.
Not having had anything is OK too.
I don't know whether I made too much of it, in the sense that, for sustainability, I think I need to feel free.
But then, especially at night, there's always the danger of going on mindlessly.

This morning, a whole pizza and a green salad from a whole head of lettuce.
It's a lot, but I feel OK with it.
It's a treat meal.

More interestingly, something I've come to realize more and more, is my relative indifference to carbs.
The pizza was pretty good, but I'm not particularly interested in repeating the experience.
I've been shifting over time to liking a protein-and-veg meal. I like them better for taste and satisfaction, and they make me feel satiated.
The chunk of beef is very nice, but I don't want to go grab another one.
Yet, I'll have carbs in the meal, often as part of the cooked veg, as it seems to help round up the meal, and allow me not to feel deprived or develop cravings.

Indeed, now, about an hour, but no more than two, later, I'm already hungry. Or is it the boredom of grading papers?
In any case, I'm inclined to believe I need protein in a meal.

Mean to check in tonite.

[jackn]

Evening of day 5, after dinner.

So far, so good.
Every time I've been 'good' for some time, I start worrying, and, indeed, the downfall isn't far behind.
We'll see.
In any case, it's already nice, I'm learning, and it's all, falls and new starts, part of the journey.

Tomorrow again a treat meal, which will have been the third day in a row.
Tomorrow, greasy spoon chunky fries, to be had with raw veg and a touch of mustard.

I guess I can see what 'S' I might be able to live with, both in terms of accepting it and in terms of hopefully sustaining it in the long run.
I'm thinking of treat meals.
They might be larger than usual, and, especially, with no boundaries placed on what I have, but they are meals, one sitting, not ongoing grazing.
I guess in No-S terms, treat meals would would keep up No-Snacks at all times. But I'd have them whenever, up to four a week, spread out whichever way I please over the week, I'm thinking.

Perhaps this will allow me to find a happy medium between freedom and control.

Anyway, life is right here and now.

Oh, yes, one last thing.
Mean to log exercise from now on, since the logging seems helpful.
So.
Today, morning routine and stair climbing before lunch.

[jackn]

Evening of day 6.

All's well, still.

Finally, dropped the fries idea, will do it some other time.
Would rather treat myself when I really feel like it, and, besides, it being an off-day, didn't feel like going out.

An unusual dinner, though, which I'll count as a treat meal, as I suddenly felt like oatmeal, and fixed myself a whole cup (dry), which is double what I usually have. Complete with nuts and an apple as trimmings.

Feel just fine, as it was a meal, and I'll take 'unusual' / treat meals anytime over a binge.

On top of it, I'm pleased that I've just been through a long weekend and didn't binge, just stuck to my only-meals rule, three of them, I believe, having been richer, treat ones.

With my limited 6-day 'experience', I'm wary of jumping into any conclusions, but here's what I'm beginning to believe.
For one, just like Reinhard emphasized in 'Episode 28: A 90% diet solution -- in 2 words', the no-Snacks rule is a big corner stone of the NoS diet.

To me, it seems very big. It helps me with small, constant, habit-induced naggings, such as 'why not stop at this store on the way...'.
No snacks.

Then, I've noticed another way in which no-snacks has been helpful.
I used to have tons and tons of carrots: at meals and between.
'Free food', right?!
Ah... not so fast.
I now think there's no 'free food'.
For one, it means that there are no boundaries on the eating, the same downside that low-carb or other restriction diets suffer from.
Moreover, very soon, the carrots are accompanied by 'something', and the rest is a familiar story.

It so happens that I started feeling uncomfortable about the quantities of carrots I was downing, and that this occurred at the same time as I started taking NoS seriously.
So I quit buying carrots.
I consider them a 'danger food' for me.
And this went very well with the no-snacks rule, as there are no 'free foods' anymore that would sneak under the no-snacks rule.

All of the above sounds highly suspicious, even worrisome, to me, as I'm waiting for the bubble to burst and for me to fall off the wagon, as I'm wont to do.
But it's all OK, and the road so far I'm very thankful for.
I feel like for a week now I've been eating both reasonably and relatively easily or casually.
Sounds like a recipe for longevity.

A related observation is my slow or limited loss of fat.
I never measure anything, so I don't have numbers.
I feel I've lost some, though, by looking at my body and face.
At the same time, I feel that it's very slow or stable.

And that, I think, is a good sign.
First, it's in keeping with other forum participant's experience.
And, then, I've known many times of losing fat rapidly that then ended up in going back to square one.

Enough chatter.

Exercise: morning routine, and afternoon yoga.

[oolala53]

Hope it's okay if I make a cautionary comment about Tim Ferris. Please remember that what he promotes may be the result of his own experiments-o-one and many of his followers, but that in no way holds a candle to the MILLIONS of people who have lived similarly for whole lifetimes the principles of moderation proposed in No S. Has there been a society or tribe that has lived eating those amounts he talks about that often? It seems he likes to talk about his excesses, too, like his descriptions of gargantuan meals on a Saturday night. I think that appeals to the adolescent in most of us. Be good so that I can be a glutton at other times. I have this sneaking suspicion that in a few years he'll be saying, oh, that's not sustainable, I'm eating less at meals these days, and not going overboard on weekends.

I guess I'm just suspicious of someone who has taken all of what I consider to be the false idols of societies- beauty, sex, money, even freedom- and made himself rich off them, and SEEMING like he has the answers. Of course it's easy to sell drugs! Those are all the drugs that people have sold out for over and over. It's only for the exceptions that they turn out to be really satisfying to. Sure, I respect that Ferris isn't doing it for the money, but I don't see that his strategies are likely to bring any more LONG TERM success for many. Though there will always be testimonials to make it seem so.

In other words, look with caution at those who are promoting something that hasn't taken many through old age. And any one who condones ingesting large amounts of food at a time. It might be sustainable if we had less access, and didn't have to fear we were just creating a new expectation. But sometime, somewhere, the primal desire to pack it away for the famine is likely to kick in.

Or maybe this is all just sour grapes.

[jackn]

Hey, oolala.
I hear you.
All input welcome.

Sorry, gotta run.
Will be sure to get back to you later.

[jackn]

Night of day 7.
I guess, day 7 is enough.
Still OK.

Ate my 3 meals, no snacks.
Pleased with it, as got back home in a foul, angry and frustrated mood. Lots of work and a conflict with a student.

Exercise: morning routine and very light evening yoga.

[oolala53]

I attended a Zen center for several years, doing many short and long weekends of meditation but it still took until last year for me to start seeing how much of the time I spend outside of class having difficult interactions go through my mind. It's a difficult habit to break for me. I think you're probably better at it.
To be honest, I don't do well interacting with the students. It was never my dream to be teacher, but by age 40, I decided to bite the bullet and join the middle class. I justify myself because I work in a program at our school that's actually pretty successful. I hope I'm part of the reason.

[jackn]

I appreciate the conversation and your openness.
I don't feel either great at relationships with students or at leaving work behind.
The latter, not at all.
But it's better tonite.

[jackn]

Day 8.

To my surprise and wonderment.
Will it last?
Anyway, it's OK.

The q is perseverance and consistency, not body measures.
The latter will take care of themselves.
I just hope not to binge and to eat such that I enjoy it, and feel good in and about my body.

The feeling good in my body is achieved within a day or so of eating with measure, that is without excess.
Though I may be overweight then, there's a lightness which, I guess, comes from there being no overload on the digestive system.
And as the body loses fat, the lightness is like a purr that goes everywhere with me, and that makes everything nicer and easier.

First day this year of going to work with no jacket, just a shirt and undershirt.
Got tons of work, but a break is coming up, and not doing so shabbily.
Had an Indian-style greasy spoon meal for lunch.

Noticed a shift to greater attraction to raw veg, and lesser to cooked veg as it gets warmer.
Had exactly the opposite phenomenon when it was getting colder.
Pretty amazing.

Exercise: morning routine and yoga in the evening.
Have a harder time keeping it up.
Hope I don't end up having to go back to the gym, tail between legs.
Mean to take a walk during lunch break tomorrow.

Nuff talk.

[oolala53]

Just to say, I hope you will not judge yourself or No S too harshly if you do binge sometimes, even often enough that it really seems terrible. If you don't give up, they will either fade on their own or you will like N day feelings enough that you are wiling to tough it out when you still get the urge to overdo it.

The other thing that can affect that is learning of something about binges that interferes with something else besides weight loss or comfort.

I had both happen. Most people who had wild weekend like I did gave up on No S way earlier than I did. I don't know what happened to them, but I can guess. I finally instituted mods more than two years into it.

Recently, I had been having some backsliding. I'm older and researching about Alzheimer's, one f the few health issues that actually scares me, I found some motivation for putting a stop to the backsliding. Of course, I can't tell if this will hold, but it reminds me of the shift I felt when I committed to No S. But these health things cannot, I believe, be taken on just because they worked for someone else. I don't think I could have made myself take that issue seriously any sooner, though a tiny part of me wishes I could have. But it's too late for that now. Forward has to be good enough.

[jackn]

Yes, I judge myself and get depressed, etc, and it takes me more than a day to dig out of the hole...

I remind you that, at this point, I don't practice S days.
I just have special meals when I feel like it, and aim to never snack, whatever day it is.
It so happens, but not by design, that special meals occur more on weekends, but I haven't had enough experience to know.

I remember well what you've told me about your experience, in particular the gradual adjustment.
And I note the Alzheimer motivation.

Personally, I don't go for cerebral reasons and analysis.
I simply know how wonderful I feel when I don't binge, like these days, and how low I get when I do.
This is more than enough motivation, and, while I care about looks as much as the next guy, my concern about bingeing isn't with weight. It's mainly, I think, the humiliating, helpless experience and the disgusting feeling in my body.

Yes, I agree, there's so much that 'if only we had known'...

But I accept it, that much went wrong.
I think this is what life's about, namely learning, and it's inevitable that much damage will be wrought before we grow.
I don't think it's about always doing things right but about learning, growing and understanding - ourselves, the world, others.

I appreciate the sharing.

[jackn]

Day 9, what do you know.

Today, one meal out.
Hard to get anything decent.

The green beans side had sugar in it, I'm quite sure.
The salmon was murdered in an oven and dripping fat. I don't think it was the salmon's own great fat, but, rather, added (vegetable, sorcerer's) oil.
And I suspect that even it had a touch of sugar.

But portion size was OK, and I had a half-way decent, satisfying meal without going overboard, which is all I look at these days.

So far, three meals, no snacks, other than my 30g of protein upon getting up, has been maintained, which is what I keep score of here

And I can see and feel the effects on the body.

And, yes, I keep worrying about a collapse, though I'm not white knuckling it or anything, just being attentive.

Oh, well, here's hoping.

Exercise: none.

[oolala53]

I hate to be that person who frets about food when out, because it makes me think of eating disorders, but really, it does seem hard to get a reasonable meal for a reasonable price, a win-win for both. Yet that's really on the customers and what they'll pay for. But I do see the foodscape changing. When even Costco sells buckets of coconut oil, something's different. I'm not saying it's right, just that sellers want to sell.

[jackn]

I worry, as I regularly wake up after less than 5h of sleep.
Tonite, now it's 3:53am here, and I'd been lying in bed hoping to fall asleep again, I only slept 3.5 hours.

It has all the effects you'd imagine.
Not pleasant, but mostly I worry about my consistency, as this lack of sleep wreaks havoc on my guard.

We'll see.

Keep it up, one meal at a time.

[jackn]

Day 10.
Post-dinner, all's well.

A miracle, given it's the (tired) end of the week, that I only slept something like 3.5h last night, and have been regularly sleeping too little as I wake up in the middle of the night, and that the day at work was a series of mishaps.

The no-snacks rule has been very helpful to me.
I don't micromanage the constant temptations.
It's not mealtime, so it's a no - no debate, no 'reasons to make an exception', no 'just one'.
Will it last?

While been eating OK in the sense of three square meals with no snacks, suspect have been overeating.
Will see how it works out in the long run, and perhaps adjust.
Probably the usual mix of greed and fear of lack behind this.
But may be positive to reassure body that it won't go hungry.
Perhaps also adjustment period, learning to know all's safe and enough food assured before body allows having less.
Wait and see.
Could it be that it's not too much?

The sleep issues seem to do with this, as I sleep better, for what it's worth, when I overeat.

Exercise: 3 x bodyweight circuit in the morning.

[oolala53]

I have not slept well for nearly 20 years. I'm sure it has caused many problems, but it has not stopped my eating less over time. A friend just got evaluated and was diagnosed with sleep apnea. I'm going to ask for a referral on this. I think the medical community is really just starting to recognize how impactful it can be AND to have some relatively effective remedies. Do you have health insurance? Or live in a biggish city? My friend says there is even a free clinic here in San Diego.

You just started Mar. 22! Way to early to be able to tell much about how much is enough on ANY day of the week. So what if you're wrong about the amounts in the first weeks or even months? It is VERY unusual for someone to go straight to their lowest weight and just live there breezily forever. And it doesn't have to be a part time job, either. I know it's tempting, especially if you've been on diets on which you have to keep reminding yourself what you're supposed to eat and possibly why it's so good (to help offset how much it hurts). But you are in this FOR THE LONG RUN, right? What is on your plate now and in June and next October can all be different, even with only minor attention. (If you don't know, Reinhard did drop 20 pounds pretty quickly, but it took quite a long time for the other 20 to come off. He never targeted any certain weight. And he is rather proud not to know anything about calories nor most nutritional theories. Sure, there is some luck involved in his success, but no one can know if he needs more than luck until he gives it several months t least.)

I wish there was a way for people to be on No S for about three months without realizing it. Weight loss and eating is so pressurized in our society and by the time most people make an effort, they are so freaked about it that there is an inordinate amount of attention we put on it, analyzing every step. I did (and do) the same thing but it isn't actually necessary. It may even be in the way, like opening an oven to check the cake baking.

I hope it's okay for me to blab so much. I just know the board has slowed a bit over the years and I want new people to know others are on their side.

[jackn]

Day 11.
OK.
Fingers crossed. Concern and satisfaction.

I'm hoping this weekend will work out.
It'll have been the second weekend to work out.
This matters, as nights and weekends are the times I've most often binged.

Mainly, though, I'd like to say I'm pleased with two things I've been trying.
One I've mentioned, no-snacks, which makes the usual eat-something-chatter less powerful.
The other is not having S-days, but, rather, having treat meals when I feel like it.
I think it works exactly as I was hoping, namely, to downplay the release when having a treat, and, thereby, to diminish the expectation.
Together, these mean that I'm less likely to binge when, finally, an S-day rolls around, as the treats can be had anytime and occur often enough such that no craving is bottled up only to burst.

Today's treat lunch: my rich, moist chocolate cake (moelleux au chocolat for the French) with some einkorn bread.

Early days, but that's what I'm hoping and what it's looked like so far.

It is particularly encouraging as I've been dogged by lack of sleep, issues at work and the tail end of a work period with a big workload, all of which would usually do me in.

Fear, fear. When will the devil, monster, snake strike?

Exercise: morning routine and a walk before noon. Hoping to sleep relatively well and do the stairs tomorrow, Sunday.

[jackn]

day 12
All's well.

Is this going to vanish like a gambler's lucky streak?!

I measure nothing. I prefer direct contact with the body. One such contact occurred this morning, when I could feel lesser weight when doing my stair climbing exercise.
Couldn't feel lots of energy, though. Sleep?
Anyway, the issue is relationship with food, and weight is just a symptom.

Lunch: had oats with nuts and apple - a treat, esp given the full cup of dry oats used (150g), twice the usual. Yet, a meal, so both license and measure.
This is one reason why S-meals, as opposed to S-days, works for me. I can whatever I please at the moment, but it must be a choice, in the sense that whatever I eat will make up the meal.
I don't get to have my cake and eat my meal, too, so to speak.
The balance of licence and measure seems to work well.
For the time being...

Rested in bed from noon to night on Sat, and slipped into half of Sunday.
This is something I'm pleased with.
Since tiredness and boredom account for so much of bingeing, not depth psychology or other psycho babble, I've come to dedicate Saturday to rest, trying toget the real thing - rest, rather than smothering the need with food.
Also undemanding entertainment is helpful, such as cursory reading on the net, movies...

How wonderful to wake up clean this Sunday, not full of ill-digested excess.

Posting here has been very helpful, I think.
You often hear about journaling and accountability.
I didn't set much store by private journaling, as while past experience showed it to provide some relief, it didn't seem to help me be consistent.
I don't have anybody I could turn to for accountability.
This forum, however, in particular the daily check-in, seems to provide both: like-minded people on the same journey and the public nature of the posting.
Yes, I'm largely talking to myself... But. It works.
Ah... it's worked so far.
Wary and worry.

Slept sth like 7h, a rare exception.
Yet, while feeling better, not really full of energy.
Wonder.

Exercise: morning routine and stairs before noon.

[oolala53]

It will be acknowledging those delightful benefits (waking up feeling good) that will help seal the habit. And from eating delicious meals!

[jackn]

Yes, I see what you mean.

Posted prematurely there.
From now on, will post at end of day, when all is said and done.

Perhaps you might share some things that helped you seal your approach to food?

[RAWCOOKIE]

I have never been a real binger-eater, so I'm not qualified to give you any advice on that. I hear you say you are afraid of the 'monster' rearing it's ugly head - and I hope that you will ride the storm if it does. Just mark it down as a RED day - and move on. I love the HabitCal for this - the ability to just mark it down, then let go of it.

I feel you are going to be OK..........

In the evenings I SOMETIMES have hot cocoa with chilli and nutmeg in it - I don't know if that would help you in the evenings or not, but something to consider maybe, some kind of hot drink that has some calories in might help you sleep.

[jackn]

Hey Raw, how nice of you to respond.
And provide input.

Reminds me that I haven't looked at other people's check-ins.

Where are you at in your journey?

Went over your daily.
Stopped in August 2015, about half a year ago, that is
You found you didn't need it, didn't feel like it?!


Did you quit the daily snack finally, or did you keep it up?
I found it to be a good idea.

Was interesting that you were about approaching eating well, not weight loss.

From what I've seen around, S-days are an issue to many people.
What is it like for you these days, with lots of experience?

You seem to really like sweets...

Excess, rather than sweets, is my downfall.

[RAWCOOKIE]

I discovered No S in June 2015 and have been doing it consistently since then (10 months no breaks). I'm doing really well on it - my brain accepts it. You are right that I am not drawn to over-eating, but I do quite like sweet things. Being sweet-free Monday-Friday has reduced the impact that has on my diet - and that's good. More likely to turn to something a little sweet as my comfort-blanket rather than eating to feel 'full'.

[jackn]

Congrats, and thanx for sharing.
Interesting.
The shift of sweets to occasional comfort food as opposed to staple, for example.

[jackn]

Day 13
All's well.

Slept 5.5 perhaps. Should feel good, yet not energetic.
Will try having dinner later, in the spirit of Rawcookie's suggestion to have a snack before bedtime.
Usually have dinner at 5-5:30.
Go to bed around ten.
What if I shift dinner to sevenish?
Tonite, had dinner at 7:30 or so.

Second weekend ok, no binges or other craziness...
And, did no work over the weekend. A little guilty, but mainly OK, as rest helps not seek relief elsewhere...

Though take no measurements, I'm clearly losing weight, which is surprising. Wouldn't have said so given the large meals. But the snacks and the binges, for some time now gone (fingers crossed), must have really piled it on.

Slow loss of weight without very thin features at this point. In the past, would be pleased with thin features, but then backsliding occurred.

Exercise: morning routine, walk at noon.

[RAWCOOKIE]

You're making great progress!

[jackn]

I'm so grateful, Raw, for this attention and encouragement.

I often feel this way these days, only right away to recoil in fear of past episodes.
lol.

Crossing fingers.
See pic!
And trying to stay focused.

[jackn]

Day 14
All's well.

3h of sleep...

And ate two hours later than usual last night...
So that didn't help, at least not right away...
Also, rather than discipline myself to have dinner at some prescribed time, 'd rather follow desire and convenience.

Tonite, obviously, dead tired.
Came back home late and hungry.
Also, was looking forward to dinner which was going to make.
But it would be a while.
So, resorted to a snack.
Had usual snack: a bit of home-make organic hamburger and raw veg.

I think these snacks help in two ways.
For one thing, obviously, the snack itself. It helps me not to white knuckle it till I can have the meal and then pounce on it, with all measure, balance and restraint left behind.
For another, it's specifically the beef-raw-veg makeup that works well. Other things could do, no doubt, but apples, for example, only make me want more.
The beef-veg snack both tides me over and allows me to stop calmly when it's done.

Dinner: Spinach, pasta and sunny-side-up eggs.

Hope to get a decent night's sleep.

Exercise: morning routine

[Merry]

Day 14--2 weeks down! Good for you! keep up the good work. New habits don't come easily, but they do come.

[jackn]

How nice of you, Merry.
A pleasure to see this first thing in the morning.

Where are you at in your journey?

[Merry]

How nice of you, Merry.
A pleasure to see this first thing in the morning.

Where are you at in your journey?

4 months and counting (I started right after Thanksgiving--said enough is enough!). I tried NoS a number of years ago, got away from it, gained more weight...I only wish I had just stuck with it back then! So far I'm down 13 lbs., but I'm finding NoS very livable and sustainable, and I like the new habits I've established.

[jackn]

4 months and counting (I started right after Thanksgiving--said enough is enough!). I tried NoS a number of years ago, got away from it, gained more weight...I only wish I had just stuck with it back then!

Interesting.
And big congrats.
Yes, why couldn't we have done it all right to begin with.
I tell myself it's about the road and growing, not about doing it right.
And that finally getting it and doing it right is really appreciated only because of the trudge.

I'm finding NoS very livable and sustainable, and I like the new habits I've established.

Exactly how I feel.
Matter-of-fact, I think sustainability, feasibility and habits are the essence thereof, rather than goals and targets.
In particular, the weight and the fat and what not are all symptoms, and, when I'm in peace with food, they just settle down like well-bred toddlers.

Same thing with exercise.
Started off carried away by the gung-ho mindset of some YTube sources. Learnt a lot, but mostly to try and balance what I do in light of a cardinal question: will I be able to sustain it?

A pleasure to talk, and I hope it's as helpful to you and others as talking to you is to me.

[jackn]

day 15
All's well.

6 hours of sleep.
No wonder after 3 hours the night before, yet it don't always work like that... so great.

Lunch out with colleague.
The usual, hopeless main street fare: Italian-style bread and grilled veg. swimming in oil.
By the taste, I'm quite sure, and it's only to be expected, not olive oil, but some omega-6-goop.
Was no better than edible, and not very, at that. Amazing that I should be willing to pay for this, and a relatively handsome sum, rather than have my own food at home. But it's the get-together that counts.
Boy. how hard to share a nice lunch out these days.

As knew would only be able to have it at 1:30, brought a snack to work, and had it at 11.
Not that I couldn't have done without it.
I just would rather keep my hunger on an even keel, rather than get into costly heroics which can end up badly.

I often think I eat too much.
Not in the sense of figure concerns, but simply feel stuffed at times, and often feel that I overeat at meals.
Greed, for one, and, perhaps, adjustment to lower weight.
Will follow.

Interesting: a two-week break is coming up starting Friday, the day after tomorrow.
Left to my own devices, with no dictated daily schedule as when I'm at work, I tend to get more restless and to get more attracted to the kitchen. Clearly, not about hunger but boredom and such.
How will I fare, I don't know. I'm glad I'm aware of the issue, and hope to manage.

Exercise: 3 rounds of bodyweight circuit in the morning.

[jackn]

Day 16
All's well.

6h sleep.

Nice how exercise affects hunger.
In the morning, after my protein-raw-veg snack, I work out, and then have breakfast.
While before the workout I may wish to have breakfast right away, after the workout I'm much calmer. I want to have breakfast then because it would be nice, not because I need to pounce on it.
Calls into question the desire before the workout, doesn't it. All those false reasons to eat, amazing.

Lovely dinner: pasta salad with parsley and onion, raw veg on the side but generous, sunny side up.

Exercise: morning routine.

[lpearlmom]

Looks like things are going well. I hope your break goes well. I'm a stay at home and no snacking for me so it can be done.

Keep up the good work!

Linda

[jackn]

This is encouraging and helpful, Linda.

Also, the two weekends in a row which with no snacking or bingeing bode well.

Thanx.

[jackn]

Day 17
All's well.

5.5-6 hours of sleep.

I'm amazed.
It's the last day before the break.
Dead tired, as usual on the eve of a break.
Yet, didn't feel any binge urges.
Is it hiding?!

Anyway, one day at a time.

Quite nice dinner: raw veg, chickpeas, avocado, scrambled eggs.

Tomorrow, farmers' organic market and then the coffee shop, the most beautiful morning of every week.
And a lovely breakfast.
But about that tomorrow.

Hope to benefit from this break calmly and joyfully.

Exercise: bodyweight video in the morning.

[jackn]

day 18

5.5hours of sleep.

Breakfast: yumm. At the cafe, chatting with the usual acquaintance, slices of pork sausage with some raw veg.
I like it a great deal, but am wary of having it more than once a week. A probably groundless concern, but I worry about wanting it too much, and then having it too often, and, mostly, not stopping at the portion (about 100g, which means what? About 150 or more of fresh meat?) assigned to this breakfast. Also, it's supposed to be the worst meat, as it probably uses leftover waste and as it is processed. This is mitigated, though, by its being organic and local, so no nitrate etc. I don't know.
In any case, I believe that eating excessively is the most detrimental thing, and if you eat less wholesome things with measure, you're better off. This well-liked breakfast helps me not overeat.
In the long run, things will surely change, but I have ways to go before I feel I can trust myself with food and allow myself more leeway without fearing going overboard.

One thing that's helped me greatly recently is the growing realization of how tiredness causes excessive eating and eating of unwholesome food. When such awareness goes beyond the mere intellectual realization and gives rise to different responses, eating patterns improve.
By 'tiredness' I mean plain old overwork, but also being worn down by emotional pressure and lack of sleep.
At some point, I started lying down sometimes when getting back home in the evening. Likewise, spending a whole day in bed on weekends, or two days in bed at the beginning of school breaks.
And I do enjoyable, undemanding things then, such as surfing the net or watching movies. I learnt that it helped me not look for a food fix. I also needed to make a point of adhering to 'no-snacks', but I think that each of these behaviours improves consistency with the other.

Felt eager to eat shortly after lunch, which, yet, was a big meal. Didn't, with the help of my trusty no-snacks rule.
What's interesting is how the desire subsided, and, at dinner, was not ravenous at all.
Only not eating and mindfulness allow me to really see up close
these comings and goings, and how desire to eat and hunger are two different things.
As I said, not ravenous in the least at dinner time, yet ate copiously.
I wonder whether this 'eat while you can' mindset will give way to greater peace and ease one day.
In any case, the whole pattern means progress, and perfection is for the gods.

Finally, noticed that while it's Saturday night, and the beginning of a two-week break to boot, I haven't at all been thinking about treats and special foods and meals.
18 days are not enough to tell, but my feeling now is that this has to do with my having S-meals whenever I feel like it, rather than S-days. If this is so, then, while I'm aware of the holiday and the rest before me, and am settling into it, my mind doesn't default to making a food frenzy part of it.
This is promising.
But.
Time will tell...

Exercise: morning routine.

[RAWCOOKIE]

I feel I can trust myself with food and allow myself more leeway without fearing going overboard.

One thing that's helped me greatly recently is the growing realization of how tiredness causes excessive eating and eating of unwholesome food.

Finally, noticed that while it's Saturday night, and the beginning of a two-week break to boot, I haven't at all been thinking about treats and special foods and meals.

These are very positive signs I think. I also had that realization about a similar kind of 'tiredness' and the urge to eat. I tend to have a trigger-thought to 'eat' at the end of a period of work, before a day off etc. It's like a 'celebration' feeling - or just a release of tension. I can see it for what it is now though, and over-ride the desire to eat to meet this feeling!

Your enjoyment of Saturday breakfast sounds perfect - that's exactly what No S is about! I hope your Sunday goes just as well.

[jackn]

Raw, you got it.

Thank you kindly for the input and for the encouragement.

[oolala53]

Hope it's not discouraging to know that food can call at unhelpful times even years in. I'm positive it has to do with stuff not related to No S, meaning for me, at least, this would be an issue almost no matter what I ate, though some of the LCHF people claim otherwise. Yet, stats show most low carb dieters aren't still eating that way two years later, and the Blue Zones eating is so different from that! Aack! Time to stop thinking about it and just say I'm so glad you're feeling some momentum in this journey. Things have slowed down on the site, but I've found it doesn't take much more than a few interested individuals to share their thoughts on such an effort to keep things going even when the going gets tough. I participate with a small group on binge issues and here. They've been my foundation, maybe too much!, for years. Only a very different life would have changed that, I think.

I also have to admit that when I'm on break from teaching, I SOMETIMES feel I am just filling time between meals, but that's also a personal problem, and not No S. I think it's also a cultural problem, but that's another conversation altogether.

Enjoy the rest of Sunday. I've got about 25 student papers to read...

[jackn]

day 19
All's well.

5+ hours of sleep.

Realize focused on how and what eat, not on fat loss, or on the path and the means, not on the result. This is in the spirit of a shift of attention that began a while ago.
But what I notice is that focusing on the path rather on the result is becoming a habit, in the sense of being an unconscious default.
This probably wouldn't work if I didn't see and feel that my body was doing better, too. Yet, I think that the conscious shift in focus, and the refusal to measure anything play a crucial part.

Also, noticed how great it feels to never feel like a clogged machine, at least not for long.
I do overeat at meals, I'm aware, but soon enough I don't feel heavy and this is sweet especially in the morning, a time when I sometimes woke up with the hangover of a binge, a terrible feeling.
These days, even though I sleep poorly, I feel lighter and more energetic.

Today being Sunday, I'm hoping to clinch another weekend, the third in a row, of proper eating.

This morning, I caught myself twice thinking about food. Not that it's wrong, and it's even right, in that it's about desire and managing it.
So, once I decided what I'd have for lunch, after the morning walk: Greasy spoon chunky fries with raw veg (Finally, went for a falafel with my own raw veg on the side).
And, then, the thought of the chocolate cake I like sneaked in at some point, and since I felt desire, even though I remember the so-so post-meal feel from last time, I decided I'd go for it tomorrow.
The chocolate cake goes with a cafe I love for its view, and the restful experience of not making my own meal that having a lunch at a cafe affords, so I think it's the package. In any case, 'd rather recognize the desire rather than analyse and 'understand'.
And I'm pleased with going for the chocolate cake, however I feel about animal food of industrial origin, because I think the 'clean eating' temptation, the haunting ideal of absolute purity, is wrong, certainly for me, at this point, and for many.
I'd rather not be 'perfect' and maintain, then be 'perfect' for some time and end up falling flat on my face eventually.
Because 'perfect' is not absolutely 'clean' eating, but that minimum that works, and works for good.

It occurred to me today that one reason I might feel I overeat and feel bloat at times is the carbs I've been adding to my meals. Still under Tim Ferris influence, I've made a point of complementing all my meals, which are essentially veg and some protein, with carbs, namely whole, natural foodstuffs, such as beans, grains and roots. This, however, I've done because I followed an idea, not by observing my own, first-hand experience, which I think is always a mistake.
Given that I have copious amounts of veg, while the carbs are necessary to complete the day's food, they're not necessary at every meal, and might be behind the feeling, and reality, of excess.
Indeed, tonite, I had no carbs with my dinner, and even added a small whole avocado, and, though I had a whole cauliflower, a bunch of parsley and half an onion, I feel OK, probably more than satisfied, but no bloat.

Exercise: morning routine. A long morning walk in town.

[jackn]

Hi, Oolala.

I also have to admit that when I'm on break from teaching, I SOMETIMES feel I am just filling time between meals

Same here...
And, precisely, one thing I hope to improve, though, if it ever works out, I think it's for the very long run - for food to play a smaller role, to stop taking up so much thought and energy...

And thank you kindly for the warm, encouraging words.

Frankly, I don't know what to think.
On the one hand, I feel positive, appealing improvements in my mindset as I go on, and, on the other, I don't feel it's been a long enough to think I'm out of the woods, if the woods ever come to an end at all, by any stretch.
"All human wisdom is contained in these two words - Wait and Hope." ― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

Good luck with the papers.

[oolala53]

Statistically, it takes two years or more for most serious weight losers to truly work out the kinks in eating regimes. This doesn't mean it's a grind every day. They often go through long periods of ease. I chalk it up to the fact that we just live in a situation that few humans have had to deal with: unparalleled societal access to not only food, but food that is designed to override the natural appestat; the belief that free speech means advertisers have the right to buy public space and spread their message; and a culture that loves the concept of freedom without really understanding what they are up against.

Lucky us! But very few have had this human thing easy.

[jackn]

day 20
All's well.

5h of sleep.

Hey, 20 days, and... third weekend in a row.

I actually think of myself as no different from drug addicts, and, therefore, forever a drug addict, always at risk, whether I inject or not.

Breakfast: one of the rare occasions on which I left over some... Feels good.

Chocolate cake at my favorite cafe for lunch.
Felt borderline stodgy afterwards, but was a good choice, both for being a pretty good experience, and for allowing desire, yet within bounds.

Not really hungry in the evening, but had dinner as
a. afraid of hunger later;
b. the no-snack rule means no catching up... yet, I allow myself snacks if really hungry, which has only happened once or twice in three weeks (back home late); and
c. find I enjoy the meal once I get going.
So, had dinner, less than usual. Satisfied, perhaps a touch on the overeating side, but fine.

Amazing the old-dieter-bugaboo, never goes away - I may miss food later! And the vicious corrolary: let's chow while the sun shines.

A familiar experience these days: a phase of not at all relating to processed food on the streets, wondering how anyone might possibly go for it, and feeling sure that I'd never fall for it again.
Fat chance.
Been there, done that, and, like night follows day, the cravings are sure to rear their ugly head.
Hope the no-snack rule and this solid period of some length behind me may help.

Seems like all participants I've seen on this forum are women.
Am I the only guy? Oh, yes, Reinhard, too...
Stiil, so rare and far between?

During the day, thought that for tomorrow's lunch, I'd go for my greasy spoon veg tandoori, a sort of Indian falafel - copious and enjoyably junkfoody.

Like it when a choice suddenly rises with a sort of calm confidence that this is it, that's what I want. Then I follow it.
Dinner tonite, for example, had to wait. Not only was I not hungry, I also didn't know what to go for.

Exercise: morning routine, late morning yoga video.

[jackn]

day 21
All's well.
5h of sleep, or less.
Definitely tired and lacking sleep.

Woke up thinking of breakfast.
I think it's got to do with the relatively small dinner last night, but could be food obsession.

Exercise helps get closer to the body.
One thing I notice during morning workouts is the change in my body as I stay longer with NoS.

Lunch: While planned on an S-meal, or a treat meal, an idea occurred to me that displaced this plan. Tomorrow?...
I had 'unmashed potatoes' (with eggs and raw veg).
I don't go for blended or mashed food, but it suddenly occurred to me that I didn't need to mash the potatoes to have 'mashed potatoes'. Indeed, just steamed them, and then tossed them with some butter and a pinch of salt. As the potatoes were hot, the butter melted with the tossing and ended up nicely coating the potato chunks.
Like it better than oven potatoes as gentler, the fat doesn't see heat and I like butter better than oil.

Again, pasing food urges, good to be aware of.
Was hungry(?) some hour or two after breakfast.
Then, after doing some two hours of housework, was tired and felt no hunger at all, only a desire to lie down...

Long leisure hours at home during the break means having to face food urges from time to time. During work periods, too busy for this to occur.

Exercise: morning routine.

[RAWCOOKIE]

Those 'long leisure hours' can be tricky - this afternoon I had to make a mug of coffee and actually go to another room in the house to just lay down on my tummy and read for half-an-hour; because I had to get away from the kitchen and thoughts of food!

[jackn]

Yes, Raw.
Sounds like you made it.
And coffee-wise, by the way.
A few weeks ago, someone said they were sleeping a lot better since they quit coffee.
So.
I, who never meant to quit coffee, started going without coffee or tea, drinking only herbal tea, in the hope of improving my sleep.

The effect was clear and immediate.
I started eating more...
No change in my sleep...
In the two weeks or so I was off coffee, I was thinking about food more, having more at every meal, and I definitely gained some weight.
Didn't take long to get back to coffee.

Never imagined what a crucial role coffee played.

[RAWCOOKIE]

Interesting result from your coffee experiment.

I took 18 months to wean myself off all tea and coffee a few years' ago - but it crept back again. I do find that caffeine in the evening makes it harder for me to fall asleep - so I try to avoid that.

[jackn]

Day 22

sleep: 6.5 hours, but don't feel refreshed

Posting late, as have had site connection issues.

Not very hungry in morning, perhaps to do with large dinner.

Lunch: an S-meal, a treat, that is. An Indian veg tandoori, a falafel-like dish: copious and works well with my veg.

Amazing how not hungry at lunch"time".
And a stuffed feeling after.
My hunch: out of habit and greed, I eat like I used to, but the body needs less.
Last night's big dinner, this morning's buttery breakfast, and the fast-food lunch.
Not to mention the usual wake-up snack.
Will look into not having the wake-up snack by default, only if desire.
And certainly keep up the carbless dinner that I started, when, yesterday?
Hope to be able to better listen.

On top of that, kind of listless.
Unrefreshing sleep? Excess food?

Afternoon nap brought quite a bit of relief.
Obviously, not enough sleep, if proof was needed.

Late dinner, as wasn't hungry.

Also posted in the 21-day thread, but wish to repeat here: I feel thnakful to Reinhard and to the members of the forum.
I'm grateful to Reinhard for the advice and for the forum.

Morning after remark: what's most striking to me looking back is that yesterday was a lousy day, physically and otherwise: tired, unmotivated, bad news, no fun.... and, yet, no-snacking was a mattter-of-course, and never called into question.
I'm sure there'll be other days, but this is good.

Exercise: morning routine.

[jackn]

Day 23

sleep: 5.5 hours, but feel more refreshed than yesterday.

Hungry in the morning, so went for snack without a second thought.
I must say the 'snack' has grown, though only in terms of raw veg. It's raw veg and a bit of beef.
But it's all OK, as long as I feel balanced between desire and excess, which I do.
And I find beef nourishing in a profound way, not the fleeting pleasure you get off of a candy bar or some such poison.

Also, note that in the morning I tend to plan out the eating for the day, and contemplate with pleasure what I'll make or have. I also like to start the day with fixing some food, now that I'm off work.
Clearly, that's a food-obssessed mindset...
So, I'm happy when I can eat sanely, but it'd be lovely and light to be less food-oriented.
Oh, well.

Not at all hungry before lunch.
I ate, quite enjoyably although way too fast, and, then, what do you know.
Caught myself heading zombie-like to the kitchen for more.
It's that split second at the end, where I'd pile up more food just because "parting" with the food is hard.
Luckily, remembered to brush my teeth right away.
And that was the end of it.
In other words, going for the brush as soon as the meal (pre-determined) is over is crucial, indeed.

Dinner: delicious: nuts, avocado, hard French cheese (comte), apple and raw veg, today lettuce, carrot and kholrabi.

It just occurred to me. A miracle: It's several days into my break, and I haven't binged.
The usual pattern would have been to collapse into the break bingeing, and then to pick up the pieces in the remaining days.

I'm afraid to let myself flow with these hopeful signs.

Exercise: morning routine. afternoon yoga video

[lpearlmom]

Wow a several day binge-free streak is awesome! Also good job on stopping the urge to continue to eat more than your plateful. Brushing teeth is a great technique. I'd forgotten about that.

Btw, I think we should all stop feeling guilty for being food focused. I mean it literally is the key to our survival. It's no small deal. It makes perfect sense that we'd be highly interested in food. I think the problem is when we continue to overeat it no longer becomes enjoyable nor healthy. And our attempts to rein this in (traditional dieting) can lead to unhealthy behaviors like food/body obsession and bingeing.

Where traditional dieting is too extreme, NoS is just the right amount of restriction. It keeps a check on overeating without being too restrictive. Meals usually become more pleasurable not less and obsessive thinking often becomes minimized due to the availability of regular meals. Also, weight tends to stabilize over time.

Anyway that's just my two cents. You are doing great. Keep it up!

Linda

[jackn]

Btw, I think we should all stop feeling guilty for being food focused. I mean it literally is the key to our survival. It's no small deal. It makes perfect sense that we'd be highly interested in food.

I see, and thanx for this insight.
Helpful to me, as it puts things in proportion and makes me feel less of an oddball.

And our attempts to rein this in (traditional dieting) can lead to unhealthy behaviors like food/body obsession and bingeing.

Where traditional dieting is too extreme, NoS is just the right amount of restriction. It keeps a check on overeating without being too restrictive.

Amen.

Hearty thanx for the encouragement.
Let's all keep it up.

[jackn]

day 24
A slip-up.
I count it as failure.

sleep: 6h, not refreshed

Monring snack.
Brkfst: tomato-bean soup, eggs and raw veg. A lot, not bad.

Lunch, very unusual: left some over. Was mediocre and big brkfst, yet unusual not to lick the plate clean.

Already contemplating the treat-dinner. It's a lot about desire, not necessarily hunger.
Anyway, it's OK as long as eating stops at the end of the meal, as Linda said.


Dinner: an S-meal, a treat, that is: chocolate cake. But, didn't stop at my portion and had some more.
I count this as a slip, as I aim for only having the allotted meal, be it a treat or plain fare.

Feels a touch stodgy, and some regret.
But.
Nothing like a binge. I mean, not by any means.
More importantly, it comes as a bit of relief, too. This streak of clean eating was becoming a sort of pressure in its own sake. And I'd like to learn to take slips in my stride, the way I saw Anra and Rawcookie do.

And no restrictive measures tomorrow, of course.
Just back to cruising as the goal.

Exercise: morning routine.

[jackn]

day 25
All's well.
sleep: 5.5 hours, quite refreshed

No morning snack as didn't feel like it, which is how I'm going to roll from now on.

Looking forward to two meals, my Sat morning farmers' market breakfast, sliced pork sausage and raw veg at the cafe, and the lunch special.

Lunch: Delish.
A big parsley salad - only parsley and green onion for greens, sunny side up eggs and bread with butter and hard French cheese (comté).
Probably overate some, but pre-decided lunch.

Might post parsley recipe.

Was eager to eat before dinner, but first did a yoga video. Noticed once more how exercise dampens these urges. Once done, eating was not urgent, though it was later. I even fixed dinner after the workout, which took some time.

Happy that today went well, in the spirit of the wish to get back on track following a slip. Yet, I'm dramatizing a bit, I suspect, since these weeks have been surprisingly calm and devoid of drama foodwise, even though there was the usual tension, stress and pressure all around.

Exercise: morning routine, afternoon yoga video

[RAWCOOKIE]

Well done! I think one of the most helpful long-term things I have learned from the No S system is the 'mark it as FAIL, then move on!' I'm glad that posting about my RED days helped you with how you dealt with yours.

I have never been a binge-eater (I think I told you that before) but I certainly enjoy planning what I'm going to eat. Today - Saturday - I've enjoyed some gorgeous sour-dough bread toasted, with butter & Marmite. I've baked some molasses cookies, a vegetable chilli, and a berry crumble. I also enjoyed a bar of Lindt Lindor this morning - with my coffee (that was 'lunch' really!). I haven't really planned Sunday's food - but Monday (work day and an N day) sure is! I love food!

[jackn]

Yes, this 'acknowledge and move on' attitude is certainly something I'd like to cultivate.

Helps to know you plan food, as I'm self-conscious about my doing so.

I do think, though, that while loving food may be just that, it might also mean some working out of other issues... And I don't think anyone needs a list here.

I notice, for instance, that if I really get involved in a given conversation with people, I'll both relish my food more, and, especially, be satisfied with less.

Also, overeating could be compared to addiction in general, quite a useful comparison in my opinion.
If so, then Bruce Alexander's famous 'rat park' experiment suggests that addiction does not result from exposure to the drug. Rather, if other needs are not met, the drug is used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park, or this short, informative animation video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1srQ5Mi-rzU.

Finally, I note your cooking is quite elaborate. Would you agree?
I enjoy cooking, but I never go for anything that requires lots of ingredients and complex manipulation.
It's KISS all the way here...

[RAWCOOKIE]

No, I don't think my cooking is elaborate -but I suppose it depends who/what you are comparing it to!

Thanks for the links to Rat Park - interesting. The book 'The End of Overeating' by David Kessler is one that covers the topics you raise. Eating for reason other than hunger, as you say, don't need listing, but it's helpful to learn that there are biological reasons for our pull towards substances either because their addictive, or because they meet another, emotional, need.

This morning I have a choice between many different breakfasts - I could have porridge (my usual weekday breakfast), or a green smoothie, or toast and marmalade. I choose toast - it's an S day, and I can. It's also a refined carbohydrate which I will layer with a fat and a sugar - ta da! yes, it's an emotional decision I'm making - I'm seeking the 'effect' it will have on my brain (for a short while!)

[jackn]

Yes, fat and sweet, made in heaven.
They often call it ice cream.

Other than the escapades, I'll often have legit fat and sweet/carbs accompanying the veg, as in avocado and fruit, nuts and fruit, eggs and pasta...
By legit I mean whole food.

Not to mention that I find fat very satisfying, and I'll use butter freely, by which I don't mean excessively, just being in peace with it.

It's delish and nourishing, I mean the feel, and, personally, I'd trust this feeling of mine any time over the latest 'study'.

A pleasure to chat and get input.

[RAWCOOKIE]

I choose to buy unsalted butter, because I know, from experience, that salted butter is irresistible to me!

I love ice-cream; I have just put two ripe bananas in the freezer to make an ice-cream later today - frozen banana whizzed in the processor. (I may elaborate it with vanilla and/or cocoa powder)

[jackn]

day 26
All's well.
Sleep: 6h, ok refreshed

Wake up snack

After morning routine, not yet hungry, so lay down and read with some wine and tea

Interesting how not hungry.
Yes, it's pleasant to eat, but it's never a frenzy.
It's OK as is, but also makes me wonder about eating less.
Wait and see.

Also, have been shifting for a while now to raw, not as an ideology, and I still have cooked veg, but it's that the body prefers raw.
Clearly, a season thing, just like shifted to cooked as it got colder. It's nice that it's not cerebral, but body-led and largely unconscious.

Lunch: amazing, again size of meal seems to be changing. It was a somewhat late lunch, I served somewhat less than usual, and, at the end, felt stuffed.
Yes, I could have stopped, and I'm not good at that.
One thing to do is adjust the served meal size to the felt hunger. Best, though, obviously, would be to learn to stop before I lick everything off the plates.

An hour later, hangry.
Boy, how shifting this urge is, and, eh, shifty.
Good to bear in mind.

Before dinner was hungry.
Hungry? It so happens that I was doing drudge work.
And I get restless, and, I'm pretty sure, 'hungry' when this takes place. Matter of fact, I once took to doing this work at cafes, just to escape the fridge.
And feel somewhat stuffed after dinner.

But three square meals today, all's well.

Exercise: morning routine, stairs before noon.

[LoriLifts]

Just stopping by to say welcome to the family.

You're doing terrific!

[lpearlmom]

Still after a couple years of doing NoS, I do not leave anything on my plate or rarely at least. Of course my plates were huge & piled at first and are now much smaller and with lighter types of food but still anything on that plate is fair game!

I'm okay with it but I agree it would be able to stop for internal reasons (fullness) rather than external ones. At this point though I guess I'm just happy to be able to stop at all.

Great job on going to the cafe to stop the urges in their tracks!

Linda

[jackn]

Just stopping by to say welcome to the family.

This hits right home, Walker.
Tank you kindly for dropping by and those words.

And I think some people here are wishing you well on the Saturday event...

[jackn]

my plates were huge & piled at first and are now much smaller and with lighter types of food

Good to know.
And good for you.

And, in your daily check-in, you also often refer to a more laid-back attitude about what you eat.

[jackn]

day 27
All's well.
Sleep: ?, but quite refreshed.

Wake-up snack.

Again, urges come and go before lunch. Upshot: some time after my usual lunch'time', I still didn't feel like having lunch. Instead, I relaxed, surfing on the couch.

Two very encouraging observations:
* Notice can keep 'treat foods' at home.
Avoided that as would pounce on them and gobble up the lot.
Don't know that I could, at this point, start a package and leave some over for another occasion, though...
Not that I feel the need.

* And, the ease with which this streak of 27 days has gone by. While I do think about food (all too?) often, it's never with anguish or striving.
I don't need to fight any desires for 'forbidden' foods, or hunger pangs. This is contrary to all previous experiences I've had, and we're talking many years and many different approaches.
It feels like freedom with measure, meaning I don't end up with, ah, a morning-after hangover, yet I'm free to have whatever I like. Matter-of-fact, I make a point of doing so. And I eat to satisfaction, not to mention overshooting that mark.
And it cocurs to me that the relative ease is actually exactly what's to be expected of any sustainable approach.
What's too demanding won't last long.
I feel free, yet I don't indulge in frenzied eating bouts, or feel a desire to do so. A sustainable approach must feature that balance, too, it seems.

Exercise: morning routine, afternoon walk in town.

[jackn]

day 28
All's well.

Sleep: somewhat longer than 3h. Yes...

Listless.
Worry about exercise today, one of first thoughts, in addition to a swirl of tempting meals I imagine for the day.
At this point, a little before 4am, I'm inclined to spend most of the day in bed.
No physical exercise, something I haven't done in a long time, just grading papers and reading for pleasure.
But who knows, I might still do sth.
Or is it better to yield?!
Allow myself to rest.
Wait and see.

OK breakfast. Sad lunch...
Delish dinner: eggs, avocado, raw veg.

Considering lack of sleep and long time on my hands, and sould-deadening grading, day went well, that is no overeating.
Please let this go on.

Exercise: morning routine.

[lpearlmom]

Hope you sleep better tonight! Grading papers is the bane of a teacher's existence isn't it? My father was a teacher and I can remember him paying me to help him grade the straight forward stuff.

No overeating--yay! You are building a strong foundation of habits!

Linda

[jackn]

Hey, Linda.

Yes, did sleep better.
Will include in daily check-in.

Definitely eating better, as you've noticed.
It's wonderful in its own sake and for how long it's lasted.

I'm thankful.
And hope it lasts and am keeping a wary eye.

Thanx a bunch for the attention and encouragement.

[jackn]

My father was a teacher and I can remember him paying me to help him grade the straight forward stuff.

OK, Linda.
Let's not beat around the bush.
How much do you charge?

[lpearlmom]

OK, Linda.
Let's not beat around the bush.
How much do you charge?

Lmao! A ticket to France should about cover it!

[jackn]

day 29
All's well.
Sleep: 7h? Refreshed.

Little energy and no hunger.
Late breakfast, no wake-up snack.
Don't feel like eating.
OK or a problem?

Later in the day, hunger OK.

Exercise: NO morning routine, long walk in town.

[jackn]

day 30
All's well.
Sleep: 5h? quite refreshed

Definitely hungry.
Rich, delish breakfast.

Urges in the afternoon, but OK.
Feeling like something sweet, following rich, savoury, earlier meals.
Or just depsondent.

Finally, too lazy to get out for a chocolate cake, had a pretty good raw meal at home.
Had to have it relatively late, as didn't feel ready to have any of the savoury stuff at home.

Exercise: morning routine

[jackn]

day 31
All's well.
Sleep:5.5hours?, not rested

Hunger in morning, even after breakfast, so mood hunger, not need - lack of sleep, anxiety with the end of the break approaching...

For a while now, a week or so?, no loss in fat felt. Since I don't measure anything, I go by face, etc.
In parentheses, if I sleep well, the morning exercise routine does suggest a lighter body, sth exercise is good at picking up.
I come down on stagnation of body composition, though.
I think it may have to do with more lavish meals during the break than when I work.
Or, that's all I can get with my big meals, even sticking to no-snacks, as I have. In other words, with this kind of eating, this is as much as the body will respond.

My take: first and foremost, it's fine, as my goal really is no-snacking and no-bingeing, which has been the case so far, and which I'm very happy about.
I think, though, that further fat loss will occur, either upon picking up work, and/or because, in time, the meals will adjust.
Wait and see.

Exercise: none

[RAWCOOKIE]

... my goal really is no-snacking and no-bingeing, which has been the case so far, and which I'm very happy about. I think, though, that further fat loss will occur, either upon picking up work, and/or because, in time, the meals will adjust.
Wait and see.

Right on! You're doing really well, working out how to use this system best for your own needs. I'm enjoying your contributions to the discussion threads too. Have a great weekend - it's Saturday, so I'm guessing it's time for that chocolate cake & company at the cafe?

[jackn]

day 32
All's well.
sleep: ?, but half-rested

wake-up snack

Lunch was an S-lunch, cake and bread. Since the bread was different, got more than usual by mistake, and, though meaning to leave some ovrer, ate it all up.
Yes, fail, but I'm inclined to say no, not really.
More and more, it seems to be about re-learning a normal eating style. It seems perfectly normal to me that sometimes I should eat more than enough, and, in particular, more than meant to.
It's about the big picture. Are meals by and large reasonable, am I hungry, am I cruising comfortably... And, bottomline, is it sustainable, becaue I'm happy with it and I can do it.

Having said that, it would be nice to learn to leave some over when I've had enough. At this point, it's rare, and basically inexistent when it comes to treats.

In the evening, didn't feel like dinner.
Ended up having it late, and it was good: eggs and oven cabbage
Briefly considered skipping dinner, as not hungry, but ended up preferring three square meals to heroics. Glad I did, certainly don't feel stuffed or anything.

Exercise: morning routine, post-lunch walk in town.

[lpearlmom]

. And, bottomline, is it sustainable, becaue I'm happy with it and I can do it.

That's the key right there isn't it?

I would have gone for the 3rd meal too. Something so comforting about regular meals. I'm convinced it's the cure for disordered eating.

Keep up the good work!

Linda

[jackn]

Something so comforting about regular meals. I'm convinced it's the cure for disordered eating.

Yes, Linda.
We see eye to eye on this.

For a while now, I feel like my body is in the driver's seat, or at least much more a partner to the conversation, than me calling the shots. Not to mention that it wouldn't be me, really, but some Truth gleaned off of some guru.
It's not a war. It's a hand-in-hand walk and conversation.

And, I think, it's got to do with the rate of fat loss.
In other words, letting the body have its way also sets the pace, as opposed to goals and dials.

Well, anyway, fingers crossed, the fears are still there.

Thanx a bunch for the feed(he he)back.
And enjoy the journey.

[jackn]

day 33
All's well.
Sleep: ?, not rested.

Wake-up snack.

Morning spent fixing food. Amazing pleasure taken in doing so.
Really basic dishes, hardly worthy of the title, but the tearing, chopping, sauteing... I like to think that I'm very much present to the moment, then, as with exercise.
Yet, not so, come to think of it - I invariably listen to stuff online at the same time...

This morning, feeling food urges.
As soon as done with breakfast, wanted more, though didn't act on it.
And went on thinking of food.
I think it's not hunger, but the load of work today and going back to work tomorrow.
Thank God for the no-snacks rule.
How helpful it is in doing away with all the casual, self-deceiving snacking: 'Oh, just...,' and 'while waiting...'. You know the drill.

All day long attracted to food, clearly escapist.
Oh, well.
Will this ever go away? This identification of food with cure-all and comfort? Hard to undo years and years...
Perhaps the clear awareness that it's not hunger but comfort-seeking is a sign of progress.

Exercise: morning routine

[jackn]

day 34
All's well.
Sleep: 7 hours? rested.

A fascinating morning.
No wake-up snack, as didn't feel very hungry.
And have been thinking that I could seek ways of not going overboard.
During the morning workout, at the end felt less able to go through with it, a sort of weakness. To do with no snack?
Don't know.
Most interesting: breakfast.
Left some veg over... rare.
More importtantly, left some over as noticed at the end that I was forcing myself. And that's not the first time, though it's rare for me to pick up on it or to act on it.
It's never right to force myself. 'Veg are good for you', and 'might be hungry later' and all that.
No. Nothing is good for me if it's not had with pleasure.
The story might be different with other veg, as this one was just OK, not great...

Anyway, feel good this morning. Feel like eating is right and fat loss is going OK.
It's great to wake up in the morning with this relative peace with eating and food.

Dinner interesting, too: had dinner ready, but suddenly felt like something else. Made it, which took time, easily an hour, but there was no question of snacking.

Exercise: morning routine. afternoon yoga video.

[RAWCOOKIE]

Wow! Things are happening........... interesting, eh?!

[jackn]

Yes, Raw.
Hope it lasts.

Thanx for the feedback.

[jackn]

day 35
All's well.
Sleep: 5 hours, so-so rested.

Wake-up snack.
Was ravenous.
As usual, between the snack (?) and the morning workout, the hunger subsided, and I could have breakfast calmly.

Hungry in the early afternoon, in spite of full square meal lunch.
Figured had to with tiredness. Was easy to notice this and to lie down, as opposed to the past search for comfort, mainly in the form of food.
Took a nap.
Somewhat hungry when woke up, dinner time.
Remained lying on the sofa, to rest some more, not rushing to dinner.
I mainly need rest, what with the work stress and lack of sleep. And when I rest, I'm less open to false comfort soliciting from food.

I'm thinking one reason for having been consistent at eating reasonably for longer than 30 days, perhaps for the longest in many years, must be the undistracted eating. I often tried that, and always dropped it after several days at most.
It's necessary.
It's not all fun and games, but it's alright and very helpful. It helps sober up the eating experience - less of a letting-go party and more of a friendly get-together.

Amazing: lying on the couch and surfing/reading was apparently so much fun that I had a hard time getting up to have dinner.

Bigger dinner than usual, but one meal, no grazing.

Exercise: morning routine,

[joasia]

I was just curious. If you care to share. Are you an American living in France? We always here the French are so much better with their eating habits (although I know this isn't a universal rule, I know there are over weight French people too). What are your thoughts on that? Being that you live in France.

[lpearlmom]

I've never been able to stick with the undistracted eating. I'm horrible at it. I need at least a book in hand when I'm eating alone.

So glad things are continuing to go well!

Linda