BrightAngel check-in

[BrightAngel]

Okay,
Today I'm ready to Again begin working toward establishing the no-snacking Habit.
Perhaps I can succeed at this if I keep making the Effort.
I've added three new calenders to my HabitCal, for:

• Snacking between Breakfast and Lunch;
  Snacking between Lunch and Dinner; and
  Snacking between Dinner and Bedtime.

Within those 3 calenders,
I've decided not to use Yellow to denote S days.
At least until I have a month of no snacking success,
Yellow....in those 3 HabitCals...will mean a tiny snack deviation,
a failure to be strict, but not an All-Out failure.
more of a..."Caution, this doesn't help establish Habit"....
with Green as total success; and Red as failure.

I need to focus on remembering Why the Habit is important, and
What the long-term benefit is to me.
I will call today Day 1,
and the following day I will report my results.

[OrganicGal]

I'm here rootin' for ya BrightAngel!! If you always keep trying, then you never truly fail.

[BrightAngel]

Day 1 was a Success
Starting no-snacking, Day 2.

Day 2 was a success ful S day.
But S events today involved snacking.
Starting with day one over and over is discouraging,
so I'm going to stop counting them.

[BrightAngel]

sunday was a successful s day.

[BrightAngel]

Monday was a failure
I snacked between every meal,
and had almost 700 calories above my 1400 calorie burn.

Today is Tuesday.
A new day.

Now it's Tuesday evening, and the day was another failure
This is depressing.

I'll check back in when I have better news to report.

[BrightAngel]

I've recorded all my food for more than 3 years
in my software program, Diet Power.
My records show that my overeating problem has become much worse
during the past 2 months while I've been trying No S.
My focus on trying to stop snacking is resulting in round-the-clock binging.
No S is a wonderful plan.
The IDEA of forming a Habit not to snack is a great one.
Maybe I'll attempt it again at a later time.
But right now, I've got to stop trying to eat the No S way,
and get my food back under control.
I AM doing great with Shovelglove.

[OrganicGal]

It looks like you might have discovered that No S is not for you BA. As wonderful as I and many others think it is, it still will not be for everyone. I think perhaps you should stick with what has been working for you before....maybe trying any tweaks that make your maintenance easier and more carefree....not the burden that No S seems to be creating for you. OR you could do No S...with the No Snacking part...not being done by you.

Only you will know what ends up being the right thing for you. I know you will work it all out.

[fkwan]

I've recorded all my food for more than 3 years
in my software program, Diet Power.
My records show that my overeating problem has become much worse
during the past 2 months while I've been trying No S.

I'm curious. What is it about No S that differs from your regular routine, since you weigh and count calories/exercise with both of them?

f

[BrightAngel]

I've recorded all my food for more than 3 years
in my software program, Diet Power.
My records show that my overeating problem has become much worse
during the past 2 months while I've been trying No S.

I'm curious. What is it about No S that differs from your regular routine,
since you weigh and count calories/exercise with both of them?

Both in my “regular routineâ€, and in any other kind of food plan,
I work to keep my calories down.
Some days are VeryLow calorie, and some days are Higher calorie,
But I work hard to keep the weekly, and monthly calorie average at 1400 or less.
Exercise is the same, no matter what food plan I use.

My “regular routine†is I can eat:
Whatever I want,
Whenever I want,
In the Amounts I want……within the calorie limitations set forth above.
(1400 calorie average or less)
As a results of this type of eating, cravings don’t build,
and most of the time I feel satisfied with 1 cookie or 1 small piece of candy.
But the continual and incessent monitering of so many daily eating choices is often mentally exhausting.

However, in doing No S,
In the attempt not to snack between meals; I eat larger meals.
Sweets are restricted except for S days; which is causing me to crave them
and to eat a larger amount of sweets when I do eat them;
And as I struggle unsuccessfully to avoid all types of snacking.
the calorie totals of the larger meals together with the unplanned snacking
are raising my calorie averages to an unacceptable level.

I’m finding that the current process of “Habit Building†in No S
which I’ve been working to do…
. . . in the HOPE that a no-snacking Habit would make conscious food monitering easier.. .
is making monitering my eating choices even MORE exhausting than normal.
I’ve been hoping this was a Temporary Problem.
But I’m losing Faith in my mind’s ability to acquire a no-snacking Habit
Within any kind of reasonable timeframe.

I’m also finding that most of the time that I’m working at No S,
I’m feeling unsuccessful and guilty,
Which is different than how I feel within my “regular routineâ€â€¦
I am finding these feelings Extremely Uncomfortable.. .
and think they may be “greasing the path†of my slide into more frequent emotional eating.

No S sounds like such a pleasant eating plan, so reasonable,
Just develop good Habits and let them take over.
Unfortunately, it is beginning to feel impossible for me to achieve,
And I fear that, for me, the Cost may Outweight the Benefit.

[fkwan]

In the attempt not to snack between meals; I eat larger meals.
And as I struggle unsuccessfully to avoid all types of snacking.
the calorie totals of the larger meals together with the unplanned snacking
are raising my calorie averages to an unacceptable level.

Hmm.

This would call for a sort of "legal fudging".

Say each meal is 300 calories.

I would divide each meal in half or thirds. Then I would eat half at the regular time, and save half for the "snack". The anal folks would insist you are breaking a No S rule, while the Bill Clintons of the world would know that it's really part of the original meal that you just didn't eat at its appropriate time.

But I’m losing Faith in my mind’s ability to acquire a no-snacking Habit
Within any kind of reasonable timeframe.

It appears that for some reason your mind just hates eating three times a day. Maybe you can gradually decrease the amount of serving you "save" for a snack, and eventually you may find yourself snacking less, but again, it's not REALLY snacking, it's parcelling out a meal.

Sweets are restricted except for S days; which is causing me to crave them
and to eat a larger amount of sweets when I do eat them;

What I do is to eat the sweet in terms of the overall calorie limit on the sweet days, and because I have the same problem, attempt to severely limit them because they don't leave me any opportunity to eat normally for the rest of the day.

I hope this makes some kind of sense.


f

[BrightAngel]

Fkwan and organic-gal
I am grateful for your attention and input.
Thanks.

Yes, Kwan, it does make sense....
but making those modifications brings my eating pretty much back to where I was BEFORE No S.
Which was okay......
....but I was really attracted to the Habit concept....
the idea of being in the Habit of not snacking seemed like such an advantage.

One of my problems is:
Give me a Rule and I feel compleled to break it.
Make it 3 meals and 2 snacks...then I want 3 snacks.
Make it 3 meals and 3 snacks....then I want to eat at Other times.
I know that this Truth about myself,
but I still keep hoping that .....maybe this time....it will be different.

Right now, I'm tired of the struggle,
so I'm going back to what usually works for me..
I'm continuing to do Shovelglove, and
I like the forum and you guys, so I'm still going to hang around.
After I've rested a while, and got my food back in line,
perhaps I'll try it again.

[JillyBean]

BA: I'm glad you are going to hang around. I like your input and would miss hearing from you.

[OrganicGal]

I 2nd what Jill said.

[BrightAngel]

Thanks, you guys.

[BrightAngel]

My HaibtCal shows that as of today,
I've had 6 perfect weeks of Shovelglove.

Although I haven't been at all successful with the Habits of No S,
I've done really well developing the Shovelglove exercise Habit.

[OrganicGal]

That's awesome BA!!!! I bought a sledge a few weeks ago and except for moving it to another room....I haven't touched it.

[JillyBean]

BA, I had to go look at my habitcal and see, and it's been 4 perfect weeks for me now. I have taken the weekends off as N days, but (and I hope you don't think I'm weird, but...) yesterday I just felt like doing it, so I did!

Try it, OG, you'll like it! Isn't that right, BA?

[sbay301]

You are a big part of the reason I began No S. I love reading your progress and it has been inspirational and motivational for me.

I too am counting my calories, albeit the old fashion way. I too think artificial sweeteners are “a gift from god.â€

Hang in there.

Sandy

[kccc]

BA,

We have really different approaches to eating. This plan works so well for me, and I'm sorry it doesn't for you... but as OG said, we are all different and you have to do what works for YOU. I am VERY glad you plan to stick around anyway.

One idea... it is VERY difficult to put more than one habit in place at a time. You're being tremendously successful with Shovelglove. That may be the "top habit" to focus on for now, and let other stuff go. And congrats on your success!

IF you decide to try No-S again (after Shovelglove is solid), perhaps it would help to phase it in more gently. No snacking just during the morning... wait until that's solid, branch out to afternoon. That kind of thing.

[Ignore this part if you just want to walk away for now... there are times I cannot HELP problem-solving, even when it may not be welcome!] I am wondering if the "mixed approach" is part of the reason WHY it doesn't work for you - if you've been reading the boards, other people DO eat bigger meals at the start, and accept it as part of the learning curve. You don't seem to feel comfortable doing that - which is TOTALLY understandable, given your background - but I'm wondering if not being able to let go of calorie-counting triggers some of those emotions as a result, which make success harder? [Again, please "assume good intent" on my part here, and ignore me if I'm out of line.]

Anyway, I'm glad you're sticking around, and finding your own path to success.

[funfuture]

FWIW, I'm glad you are sticking around too, BA.

[blueskighs]

Bright Angel

Congratulations on your SHOVEGLOVE success!

Blueskigh

[Nichole]

My HaibtCal shows that as of today,
I've had 6 perfect weeks of Shovelglove.

Although I haven't been at all successful with the Habits of No S,
I've done really well developing the Shovelglove exercise Habit.

I hear you on this. I am the same way. I am wonderful at exercising regularly (as you are, too!). I find it has SO many benefits... feels good, calms me down, gets me tired for bed, etc., while following eating rules is MUCH less pleasurable and much more difficult. Don't know what to do about that.

[BrightAngel]

I decided to copy this post here in my check-in.

The person that was horrified I might just go live my life and become 200 lbs *gasp*,
I think is a bit obsessive from the posts of read by her so that was in response to her.

I want to be healthy and happy and free.
I will love my body just the way it is today regardless of what society has to say about it.
Life is too short and too beautiful to be wasting energy on hating ourselves.

Anyone who has read very many of my prior posts should be aware that
I am a 5'0" medium to small boned woman
who spent most of my adult life over 200 lbs, with a high of 271 lbs.

I have gained and lost over 100 lbs three separate times in my life.
Each time this regain happened within about a 6 month time period,
simply by choosing to eat whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted.
Total freedom with food exacts a high price.

There are tall, large-boned women who can be attractive and in good physical health at 200 lbs or more.
However, I am not one of these women.
I learned to accept and love myself, (through many years of therapy)
even when I was extremely obese.
That does not mean that I liked being enormously fat.

It has taken a great deal of very hard work to arrive at my current size,
and it takes a great deal of hard work to stay here.
I am very aware . . .from my own history. . .
that if I decide to allow myself to simply eat what I want whenever I want,
that within 6 months to a year, I again will be 200, 270, or higher.
The only thing that would stop my body's weight ascent, would be a return to controlled eating.
Then, I would have to control what I eat. . . to diet. . .just to stay 200, 250, or 300 lbs.
I know for a fact that there is no limit to how many lbs I can gain.
Therefore, I remain viligent and committed.

Like everyone else, I also want to be happy, healthy and free.
But for me, freedom with food, exacts a price I no longer want to pay.
In order to stay happy and healthy, I have to be willing to limit and control my eating.

All diets, including No S, require limits and controls of food.
In a perfect world, I could eat whatever I want, whenever I want to
and my body would adapt to a reasonable size.
But this is not a perfect world.

[funfuture]

All diets, including No S, require limits and controls of food.
In a perfect world, I could eat whatever I want, whenever I want to
and my body would adapt to a reasonable size.
But this is not a perfect world

Too true, BA. I hear ya, girl...

[BrightAngel]

Okay, 4th of July holiday is over.
There are 8 weeks left in this Summer,
and today I feel ready for another concerted try at No S.

This time, I am going to work on Reinhard's suggestion to make most S Days, small s days...i.e. containing one or two s events.
Then save the big S days, for a few special yearly holiday occasions etc.

Another suggestion I liked from a successful forum member,
is to normally have only one s day on the weekend, and the other s day, sometime mid-week.
In general, I think this might work better for me.

I will, of course, continue to combine No S with what has been successful for me in the past,
which means:
I will continue to log all my food into my DietPower food journal program which counts my calories,
and when and if it seems advisable for me to do so,
I will combine the No S plan with ideas from other diets that have been successful for me in my past.

Here goes another DAY ONE.

[Jesseco]

This time, I am going to work on Reinhard's suggestion to make most S Days, small s days...i.e. containing one or two s events.
Then save the big S days, for a few special yearly holiday occasions etc.

Another suggestion I liked from a successful forum member,
is to normally have only one s day on the weekend, and the other s day, sometime mid-week.
In general, I think this might work better for me.


and when and if it seems advisable for me to do so,
I will combine the No S plan with ideas from other diets that have been successful for me in my past.

BA, it's been working very well for me to have small s days (saving big ones for special holiday occasions with others). I've been having them on Sundays, when I will allow myself a (large) treat after dinner. It's usually a large ice cream sundae, and I may need to make it smaller, as I really want to be a couple of pounds lighter!

Also, I decided to have only one regular s day a week (Sunday). That seems to be helping me keep the weight down. And there are usually a couple of times a month when I need a non-weekend s day for a birthday or other special occasion.

Also, when I went on a shopping trip with my mom (rare now) and we ate out, she wanted to get a treat. I didn't mind at all having a red habit-cal day for her! I considered making it an s day, but decided not to.

BA, I really enjoy reading your posts! They are helpful to me.

[BrightAngel]

BA, I really enjoy reading your posts! They are helpful to me.

Thank you Jesseco.

Day One was a Success.
Now going for Day Two.

[BrightAngel]

I'm keeping track of my No S 'failures' and 'successes' in a personal HabitCal,
but have decided, at present, not to post that information here.

I am now in my 9th week of Shovelglove success.

[BrightAngel]

I have now had 10 perfect weeks of Shovelglove.

[BrightAngel]

This post in General Discussion is something especially relevant for me personally,
so I've copied it here to my Check-in.

I found this recent news article interesting.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25464987/
It concerns the implimentation of the New York city law requiring chain restaurants to post calorie information.

Many people are not happy to learn that their food choices are extremely high-calorie.
DENIAL, "If I don't know it, it isn't true", is a big problem in weight-control,
and many people prefer ignorance, in order to avoid facing unpleasant facts.

‘Take off the labels’
“Some people actually tell us we should take off the labels, because it discourages them from ordering what they want,†he said,

Despite the eye-opening revelations, whether New Yorkers will switch to lower calorie meals remains to be seen. They may just switch menus.

That’s what Fowler, the woman who was dining recently with her friends at T.G.I. Friday's, decided to do.

“I’m so upset,†she said, noting some entrees — like the Jack Daniels ribs and shrimp dinner — contain almost 2,000 calories, and the desserts were more of the same (the brownie obsession is 1,500 calories). “I wish they wouldn’t have done this.â€

But then Fowler noticed that the waiter had handed her friend an old menu, which didn’t have calorie counts on it.

“You got a menu without anything on it?†she asked her friend. “Can I have yours?â€

The mentality of the woman mentioned above is a common one.
She would like to feel guilt-free while eating high-calorie foods.
It does feel great not to be responsible for our food choices.
and
It is difficult to be Accountable for the food choices we make.

Calories count,
whether one consciously chooses to control calorie intake
by counting them,
OR
whether one chooses to uncounsciously control them
by limiting the amount of food they eat, and the times they eat
- - such as is done within the No S Diet. (1 plate, 3 meals, no snacks)
This is an unpopular, rather unpleasant, Truth that many would like to forget,
and I sometimes experience hostility from people for the reminder.

There are some people whose bodies allow them to control their calorie input by the implementation of a few rules.
Within those simple rules or guidelines, their bodies show them what to eat.
This is commonly known as "intuitive eating".
Some pople think everyone is born with that ability, however,
there are a great many adults whose bodies lack that capability.
Those people need to exercise more conscious control of their food intake.

There are many ways to limit calories without counting them,
and some of those ways can bring great success.
I personally have found a way to make calorie counting an enjoyable Habit.
I keep a food journal in my computer.
Every day I click a few buttons to enter all my food, and my software program tells me my calories and other nutritional values.
In this way I become aware of my eating Truth.

I am Accountable for all my food choices.
I've been on many different "diets" or "food plans". .including No S,
but for the past 3 1/2 years, I have detailed records of what I've done, and the choices I've made.
This is what I've done to be successful.

To be Accountable is a difficult, adult thing.
But whether we count calories, or limit the calories of our food intake in some other way,
Calorie Accountability is necessary for successful weight-control.

[BrightAngel]

I'm still here.
Developing a good Shovelgloving habit.
Maintaining within my weight range.
But, despite many efforts, I have still found it impossible to form a "no snacking" Habit,
and...right at this moment...I'm even minus the desire to do so.

[kccc]

BA, I'm glad to see you. It's been a while, and I was afraid you'd left.

As far as snacking... what you're doing is working for you... well, why change?

Congrats on the SG. I have just started it (this week), but don't plan to do it every day.

Cheers,

KCCC

[connorcream]

BA I am glad you are still posting too. I have read your thughts for some time and enjoy their clarity.

[BrightAngel]

Thanks KCCC and Connorcream.
I like you guys too, and my plan is to continue hanging around,
despite my inability...at this time... to comply with the NoS snacking rules.
I am very interested in Reinhard's Habit formation theories.

[CrazyCatLady]

I was reading one of your posts on the main board, and noticed that your weight is down! Kudos to you! It really put a smile on my face to see your success.

[navi]

BA, if you are staying in your goal weight, why do you even CARE if you snack or not? Just because noS doesn't allow for snacking, it does not mean that snacks are evil. NoS is just one of many diet plans, lifestlye plans (whatever you want to call it), not THE answer or THE law. It seems that you have a method that works for you, why deny yourself snacks that you clearly enjoy. Snacking or not snacking is not a moral issue! So snack away, and be happy that you are maintaining your impressive weight loss. At this point stopping snacking seems like it would be a random, pointless rule for you.....
just my humble opinion, of course!

[BrightAngel]

Thanks CrazyCatLady and gionta
I very much appreciate your support.

[Nichole]

BA, if you are staying in your goal weight, why do you even CARE if you snack or not? Just because noS doesn't allow for snacking, it does not mean that snacks are evil. NoS is just one of many diet plans, lifestlye plans (whatever you want to call it), not THE answer or THE law. It seems that you have a method that works for you, why deny yourself snacks that you clearly enjoy. Snacking or not snacking is not a moral issue! So snack away, and be happy that you are maintaining your impressive weight loss. At this point stopping snacking seems like it would be a random, pointless rule for you.....
just my humble opinion, of course!

I second that!! You're doing incredibly well.

[BrightAngel]

Thanks, Nichole.

[BrightAngel]

Status Report:

Another successful month of Shovelgloving.

Not working to follow No S rules at present.

I continue to enter all my food into my DietPower food journal every day,
and carefully moniter my nutrition and calorie intake.
I'm still finding it an enjoyable Habit after 1450 consecutive days of doing so.

For another month I have successfully maintained my weight loss.

[kccc]

Good for you!

Maintenance is the hard part, IMHO. Congrats on doing so well.

[BrightAngel]

This is a duplicate post that I am making a part of my personal History Thread.

Prior to my gastric bypass surgery 15 years ago,
my surgeon's advice for diet post-surgery was:

"Eat 3 meals a day, one-half of each meal is to be protein, and eat nothing in between those meals."

I told my friends about it, and they also said

"Well, then just eat that way now, and you'll get thin without any surgery."

Here's the issue.
I could not make myself eat like that Before the surgery,
and, to date, I still can not make myself eat like that After the surgery.

The surgery physically changed my body so that it will not tolerate large amounts of food at one time.
In the 6 months immediately after surgery,
my maximum tolerance was about 300 - 700 calories in a 24 hour period.

Now, 15 years later, if I have a tremendous binge,
my maximum tolerance is about 3000 calories.
Pre-surgery I could eat 10,000 to 15,000 calories in a 24 hour binge.
I have never purged.

My personal long-term history was that before my surgery,
I would do very well for 5 to 10 days, eating about 1200 or so calories a day,
and then I would have a day or two of a massive binge and an enormous calorie intake.
This would make my average calorie intake much higher than my average calorie burn,
and I continually gained weight.

20 years of professional therapy has not not resolved my Binge Eating problem.
However, the physical change to my body, through surgery, has allowed me,
together with diligent effort,
to achieve a healthy normal weight and to maintain it.

My gastric bypass surgery was a wonderful thing,
even with all of the risk, pain, and expense.
I know far more about the difficulties now, than I did then,
but I would do it again without hesitation.

Every person I know who has had the surgery
(and I personally know many)
also has told me they, too,
...even knowing the difficulties they would experience....
would do it again without hesitation.

During the past 6 months or so that I've been experimenting with No S,
I've begun to notice that many people, who seem to be good at 3 meals and no snacks,
state that they experienced this as normal behavior in childhood,
and they feel they are returning to normal.
I'm now wondering if some of my difficulty in following through with this concept
might be that even my earliest childhood always included frequent snacking,
and 3 meals a day with limited or no snacking was never a normal part of my life.

[Joelle]

Hi BrightAngel,
I hope I didn't offend you with my comment. I know that for many people, bariatric surgery is a way to achieve what had previously been impossible. Your hard work shows in the great results you've had. I don't think there is one right answer. People are too different for that to be possible. I was just surprised to hear the Dr. saying so many of the same things that Reinhard says. I wish you continued success and good health.
Joelle

[becca]

Bright, I was reading your posts. I think that you should stick with what works for you. Plus remember too that it doesn't have to be 3 meals if you can do with smaller meals you can... I mean why mess with success? I especially think if you have binge eating issues that perhaps S days could be quite tough.

[BrightAngel]

Thanks for the positive feedback.

I think No S is such a positive and terrific way to eat,
that I've been frustrated with my inability to succeed at implementing it into my life.

However, my current eating patterns have been very successful,
and I've been accepting that I need to stick with what works for me.

To update anyone who is interested, on Oct 3, I became very ill due to a bowel blockage in my small intestine.
I've been told that this was probably due to old scar tissue from one of my abdominal surgeries
that took place between 1979 and 1994 which were:
Hysterectomy; Bladder repair; gall bladder removal; Gastric Bypass; Hernia repair.
Anyway my blocked blowel was a life-treatening illness which resulted in surgery and a 10 day hospital stay.
I am now home and recovering quite well, although (of course) I am a bit tired and weak.

At present my only exercise is 10 minute treadmill sessions at 1.5 mph, level incline.
I do between two and five of these daily, as walking is excellent for my recovery.
This is also operating at my peak ability right now,
although before my illness, I did two or three 30 min sessions every day of intermittently varying between 2.8-3.5 mph at 0 to 16 incline.

I've had to give up shovelglove at present, but intend to return to my daily 15 minutes with my long-handled 4 lb sledgehammer,
after my incision heals and my doctor releases me for that activity.

I've been told repeatedly that being in good shape
due to my healthy diet and exercise and maintenance of normal weight during the past 3 years
was a large factor in helping me get through this illness and achieve a fast recovery.
So I'm feeling very grateful right now, and I'm looking forward to soon recovering my full strength.
The first part of the month, my only food was by iv,
but now, while recovering at home I'm having about 1200 calories a day,
broken up into 3 meals and 3 snacks, which still works well for me.

I'm pleased that there is room here for all kinds of individual differences here on the No S forum,
and I'm enjoying watching the progress of other forum members here.
Good luck to all of us.

[JillyBean]

Hey, BA!

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, but very glad that you checked in and are recovering well. You are an inspiration!

[kccc]

BA,

Sorry that you've had health issues - sounds pretty serious.

Though, as you point out, it was probably MUCH less so because of your general good health. Those good habits really pay off - good for you!

Best wishes for continued progress toward recovery. May it be smooth and rapid!

Very best wishes,

KCCC

[funfuture]

Best wishes from me too, BrightAngel. That sounds like an awful illness. Take it easy in the recovery and I hope you are back to full health soon.

[connorcream]

BA hope you get well soon.

[gratefuldeb67]

Wow Bright Angel, you have been through a lot!!
You will be all recovered in no time and back in action.
Hope you have a nice week!
Bless
Debs

[BrightAngel]

Thanks for your kind words.

I've been watching everyone's progress on No S with interest and appreciation,
and am so pleased to see that it is working well for many forum members.
I greatly admire the Plan and Reinhard for creating it,
and sometimes feel quite wistful when wishing for the personal ability to follow it.

Sometimes I'm sort of the "canary in the coal mine",
as I speak out about my own experience, both as a warning
and as encouragement, to those whose struggles are similiar to mine.
I have never intended any of my statements to be a criticism of those for whom "vanilla" No S is working.

I'm expect it to only be another couple of weeks before my doctor gives me permission to return to ShovelGlove.
I'm looking forward to that, as I enjoy it a great deal.
I know the time away from strength training has weakened me a bit,
but I'm hoping that I can pick up the daily Shovelgloving Habit again quickly.

[BrightAngel]

Since I first heard of No S, I've been attracted to its Habit concept,
and the possibility that, over time,
establishing specific and limited eating Habits could help reduce
food cravings that tend to result in overeating.

However, my many attempts to limit my food to 3 meals-no snacks have all been unsuccessful.

Today I decided to again attempt to establish a No S Habit
by using modifications that might work for me.
I will, of course, continue to enter all my food into my DietPower food journal,
which counts calories and gives me nutritional values,
and I will continue to work to keep my daily calories at or under my daily energy burn.

Essentially my No S attempt will be to establish a regular Habit of:
On N Days:
No S inside a framework of 6 small meals,
i.e.:
3 small meals, Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner,
and 3 small 'snack' type meals, limited to
one at Midmorning, one at Midafternoon, and one in the Evening.

I started 6 new HabitCals, one for each of these 6 daily eating times.
I'm hoping to establish Habits in these areas,
but even if my efforts are unsuccessful,
Perhaps these HabitCals might help keep me out of Denial,
by helping me accurately pinpoint my problem areas.

[gratefuldeb67]

I love HabitCal Bright Angel.
It's very clear, and simple and yes, keeps you honest.
Good luck!
Mine isn't gonna have too much Green on it this month cos I've been very sick for a few weeks and exercise has gone down the tubes, and I've opted to call most of the days sick days.
Have a nice weekend.
Debs

[connorcream]

Your kind remarks to blueskighs shows what a classy lady you are. So glad you post when possible. Hope you are feeling better.

[funfuture]

And a little cheer from me too, BA. That was a generous thing to do.

[BrightAngel]

During the past few weeks I've been mostly successful at No S,
with the variation of 3 small meals with 3 small snacks in-between.
This has helped me to keep my calories at maintenance level and ...in general...avoid grazing.
I would like to improve this, but for now it seems to be the best I can do.

Last week I did a day of Shovelgloving, but I had difficulty with it,
even though I only use a 4 lb long-handled sledgehammer.
I think it might have still been a bit too soon after my surgery.
I plan to try again today, but only for 5 minutes per day during this first week.

[gratefuldeb67]

Hi Bright Angel!
I hope you experience complete Health soon!
I'd say you are still using the NoS principles here by having regular meals, and at least, regular snacks.
The whole idea behind "no snacking" is the *unplanned* and opportunistic snacking (aka "grazing") which is fairly mindless and unaccountable.

Good for you on making the mod's you need to maintain your healthy weight.
Really hope you feel your full strength return soon, and good idea to slowly build up to your usual workout.
Love
Debs

[blueskighs]

Hey BrightAngel,

just want to add my 2 cents if you don't mind ...

This has helped me to keep my calories at maintenance level and ...in general...avoid grazing.
I would like to improve this, but for now it seems to be the best I can do.

first of all, I think this is great! this seems like this has been a big part of your goal for investigating NO S in the first place, so savor this success,

the only other thing is, I have to be very careful of rushing myself beyond where I am ready to go ... maybe just let this settle and get very solid and THEN see if you want to take it further or stabilize here,
either way, you are a success!!!!!!!

Blueskighs

[connorcream]

By all means, take it slow. Your complete healing is most important.

Have a Blessed Thanksgiving.

[BrightAngel]

Thanks guys, I very much appreciate your support here.

Today is the day after Thanksgiving,
which traditionally for me, kicks off a month of non-stop Holiday excess,
most of it between meal grazing.
This year we will also have a two-week vacation during the Christmas season.
This period is the most difficult time of year for me in Maintenance.
Last year at this time I gained 5 lbs
and it took me 10 months of hard work to get those pounds back off.

My goal is to have no Holiday gain this year.
The only way that will happen is if I eat differently than I did last year.
I think it unreasonable to assume that I will be able to end snacking now in this difficult time period,
since I've been so unsuccessful during my efforts to do so during the past 8 months during much less difficult times.

I'm also finding it almost impossible to limit myself to one between-meal snack during each time period.
Instead of structured meals or snacks I just want to graze all the time.
Fortunately, I still enjoy using my DietPower food Journal,
and I still continue my Habit of entering all my food every day
(which results in DietPower giving me all nutritional information, including calories).
This is my primary tool
and it greatly helps me to choose to eat small amounts of healthy foods in order to maintain my weight.

Later I might again use HabitCal to differentiate between snacks and grazing,
but for this month I've decided to reset my HabitCals into 6 daily-eating-time-periods
and change my use of HabitCal to reflect my compliance with or deviation from No S
in order to better visualize my problem areas immediately.

I expect that this will result in red boxes
for most of the mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and after-dinner time periods,
but that will be okay for the present.
I'm hoping that a closer observation of the timing of my food-intake
will help me to follow through with more structured eating during the Holiday season,
and that this may help me limit my calories.
My personal choice is to continue counting calories (by using DietPower).
I'm good at doing this, and it has helped me maintain my current weight for the past 3 years.

[3aday]

Hi BrightAngel, the holidays are a tough time for me too and I have been doing this for a while.
I knew with the holiday season starting I needed a game plan so I started a new check in for myself for the holidays.
Holiday season eating for me usually starts the day before Thanksgiving.
I try not to journal my foods/exercise anymore but I have decided to this year because I need to keep on my toes!
You know, the actual holiday days are OK for me but what gets me is all the goodies they bring to work during the week and our work Christmas party.
We have some fabulous cooks/bakers where I work and the break room is always filled with the most amazing treats. And, sadly, I still want them all!
So this year, I decided to be more accountable with myself.
Hopefully by posting what I eat, I'll think twice about eating the walnut pound cakes that are my favorite.

Your game plan sounds good too. You are doing what you need to do and what works for you to get through this season. I have hope that we both will get through this season!

[BrightAngel]

Thanks Guys, for your kind and generous comments.

I'm a bit embarrased to post that I'm AGAIN changing my Plan and HabitCal for December.

It soon became apparent to me that my prior HabitCal plan was designed to become merely a major recording of my Failures,
So in order to encourage myself through the Holidays,
I changed my HabitCal for December to give me a better chance of recording Successes.

Now, my HabitCal now has listings for daily success or failure in the following categories:

• Shovelglove
  MadeEatingPlan
  FollowedEatingPlan
  AcceptableCalories
  AdditionalExercise

[gratefuldeb67]

That's a great idea Bright Angel!
Do you mind me suggesting that maybe you make one out of two of those by renaming it "Made and followed eating plan"???
Less habit cals but the same goal?

Don't feel embarrassed to do *anything* that will help you take care of yourself! This is all a learning process for us *all* here!

When I think of how far you have come, you are really an inspiration!
The most weight I have ever lost at any time was about 30 lbs...
You have lost like about 80 lbs??
That's amazing!
NoS is a wonderful maintenance plan and your own personal goal to maintain during the holidays is totally admirable!
Do it any way you can, and try to make your habits ones which will stand the test of time
Love
Debs

[BrightAngel]

Thanks GratefulDeb

I lost a net 81 lbs due to my Gastric Bypass 16 years ago
From my High of 271 to down 160 but then gained back up to 190.
In September 2004, I discovered DietPower while surfing the internet.
I found it an enjoyable way to keep track of my eating and my calories.
I started using it daily working toward an average of 1200 calories per day,
and about 16 months later I reached my goal of 115 for an additional 75 lb loss.

Since then, I have been working to maintain my weight in that area.
In less than 2 months, I will have maintained at my goal weight for 3 years.
I find Maintaining as difficult as Losing,
and it takes a great deal of Effort and Focus.

I've used many different diets and food plans,
and I keep what works for me, while trying out other things that I think might work.
Right now I'm very interested in the Habit concept of No S.
Although I've not been successful at implementing much of the No S plan,
I'm still working to establish helpful Habits.
I very much enjoy watching everyone and participating here on the Forum.

I can see the value of your suggestion,
however, since Reinhard included the Table view,
I find it easy to have lots of HabitCals.
Making a Plan for the day is a separate step from Following that Plan,
and I've decided to give myself credit for taking that first step,
even when I don't succeed at the next step.

[gratefuldeb67]

I see what you're saying! Good for you. Yes give yourself credit for making a plan for yourself!
Thanks for sharing your story!
Love,
Debs

[BrightAngel]

This post in General Discussion is something especially relevant for me personally,
so I've copied it here to my Check-in.

I am tracking calories though because I've read many posts
that say in the beginning weight gain is fairly common place with "No S",
and I was also curious about the initial over eating associated with limiting oneself to 3 meals daily.

It turns out I'm eating an average of 1904 calories on my "N" days.
Including my two "S" days, I average 2189 calories -
just a few more calories each day than what I burn.

The majority seem to say "vanilla" "No S" is the way to go,
and let the gradual process of organically shrinking your portions happen over time.
For me, this inital tracking is proof positive that I just simply eat too much for my body
and time is not going to tell me anything differently.

starflower,
Your point is well taken.

To maintain one's current weight, energy input neets to match energy output.
To lose weight, energy input needs to be less than energy output.
Despite occasional contradictory statements of a few health food gurus,
the established scientific principle is still: Calories in, Calories out.

Each of us burns a different amount of energy (calories),
This is based on our heights, our weights, our sex, and our ages.
A smaller part of this is also based on our activity level.
Due to each of these factors most of our individual metabolisms differ.

I am a short, small, older female.
This past week at a Hospital Facility I took a medical Resting Metabolism Rate (RMR) computerized breathing test.
It showed that my metabolism is NORMAL or AVERAGE for my height, weight, age, and sex:
My "normal" "average" RMR is around 1000 daily calories.
Adding an 1 hr or more, for 7 days a week, of intense low-impact exercise
(plus strength training) can bring me up to a High of 1400 calories.

My calculation of the calories in 3 normal sized dinner plates
of whatever food I might like to eat is around 2000 calories daily.

2000 Plus calories is probably what Reinhard needs to maintain his weight.
and it also may be what some taller, heavier, younger women also need for maintenance.

However, 2000 minus 1400 calories equals a 600 daily calorie excess.
3500 calories = 1 fat lb.
Therefore every six days of eating in that manner
would cause me to have a fat gain of 1 lb.
365 days a year divided by 6 equals 60,
so I could gain around 60 lbs in one year by eating in this manner.
(It would acutally be a bit less
as this simple calculation ignores the slight MR increase
that would occur to weight gain.)

No S uses the 3 plate limitation along with it's other rules
as a substitute for calorie counting.
The intention is that eating in this manner will cause a "natural limitation"
of the food we eat.
Eating less food is good.

However, I frequently caution people who are doing "vanilla" No S,
of this simple Truth.
We are NOT all the same.
We cannot all eat the exact same amounts of food
and expect to maintain our weight or to lose weight.
It simply is not physically possible.

[starflower]

Hi Brightangel,

Thanks for quoting me above. (Look Ma, I've been published':D').

Brightangel wrote:

However, I frequently caution people who are doing "vanilla" No S,
of this simple Truth.
We are NOT all the same.
We cannot all eat the exact same amounts of food
and expect to maintain our weight or to lose weight.
It simply is not physically possible.

Well put. My weight is now coming back down from 147.5 to 144.5 after gaining 2 pounds from my first eight days of No S. Not too surprising - since in my first week, I averaged around 2300 calories per day.

Over the last three N days, thanks to using smaller 8.5" plates and having two 1500 and one 1800 calorie days - I have lost a 1/2 pound from my start weight of 145.

I'm 47, 5'9, small boned, and weighed 123 to 125 all through my 20's. In my mid 30's, I started over eating, snacking, and drinking somewhat more; I shot up to 167 lbs. I have battled numerous times back, through various diets, to 126 - 130 1bs. It took me a year each time to achieve my goal weight range, and then maintenance of my goal never lasted longer than 6 months for me.

My expectations now are to adopt a No S life long plan of 3 meals an "N day"/2 "S days" a week, exercise, and treat computer calorie monitoring as a hobby, (or at least think of it as a necessary self-care routine like brushing my teeth.) The toughest part is being sensible on "S days"...for me it's a fine line(s) between ingesting a workable amount of calories, having treats/snacks/or seconds, and not feeling deprived to the point where my calorie modification backfires.

Thank you, Brightangel, for sharing your model of maintaining your goal weight, year in and year out. Also, thanks for being patient with my ramblings on your thread!

[BrightAngel]

Starflower,
Thanks for your post.
I wish you Great Success in your No S Efforts.

[BrightAngel]

My HabitCal Statistics for December show:

• Made Eating Plan and Eating Acceptable Calories - 100%
  Followed Eating Plan - 93.3%
  Shovelglove - 81.8%
  Additional Exercise - 82.5%

This makes December a successful Maintenance month for me.
I did Excellent with calories and exercise.
I entered all of my food intake into my computer food log (DietPower)
December's average daily calories was 1120 calories,
and December's average daily exercise time was 30 min.

In fact, my Behavior was better than in any past December,
but my weight still climbed 4 lbs, from 111 to 115.
I'm hoping that this is simply due to salt/water/waste issues,
and that sometime this month my weight will drop.
However. . . I am still inside my Maintenance Weight Range.
So, it's all good.

[gratefuldeb67]

Good for you!!
Debs x

[BrightAngel]

I'm choosing to copy this post to my Thread.

The basic philosophy is to have two days per week that are set for no rules about eating (Saturday and Sunday),
and then you have some weekdays that have no rules about eating (Special Days)
and then you have rules that you follow (limited number of times for eating so no snacks, and then no sweets, and then no seconds).
It seems as though people do make modifications to this diet to suit their needs.
The guy who just posted his pictures on the success story category said he followed no starches on N Days.

What I see is that following rules on N Days dampens down your consumption of food on S Days,
and you don't feel like you are starving all the time as people do who go on diets that have constant food restrictions (Atkins -- constant restriction of certain types of foods; WW - constant restriction of amounts of foods).

I think this is a good interpetation of No S principals.

[BrightAngel]

I am a small, light, non-atheletic, 64 year old female.
I've been doing 15 minutes of daily Shovelglove with a 4 lb sledgehammer for more than 6 months,
and Today was my first day of using a 6 lb sledgehammer.
It was harder, but so far, seems okay.
It's still too soon for me to know how sore my muscles will be due to the change.

Today I am also beginning a modified version of No S...again.
I continue, of course, to log all my food into DietPower, which counts my calories.
My basic changes to No S are including a small afternoon "4th meal" on "N" days,
and setting a daily calorie limit which applies on all 7 days of the week.

[BrightAngel]

So far, my January eating and exercise, overall has been excellent.
I've done very well at staying within my calorie limits, and at managing my food portions.

Four days ago I thought I would begin a modified version of No S...again.
continuing, of course, to log all my food into DietPower, which counts my calories.
My basic changes to No S included a small afternoon "4th meal" on "N" days,
and setting a daily calorie limit which applies on all 7 days of the week.

Seconds and sweets on "N" days are still no problem for me.
However, again, time shows me that:
I am happy with small portions and very small meals,
and I am unable to force myself to eat larger amounts at mealtime.
I have a very strong snacking Habit,
although I am quite good at snacking on healthy items in very small amounts.
At present, I still find it impossible to motivate myself or follow through with an eliminating of snacking.
Even setting myself 3 meals, 3 snacks and calling them 6 small meals,
seems impossible for me right now.
My desire to take a bite here and there as long as it fits in my calorie limits, seems impossible to subdue.

My only motivation to change is my Interest in the Habit Concept,
and how establishing specific eating Habits could simplify my Weight Maintenance.
Unfortunately, that Interest doesn't seem to be enough motivation for me to follow through with changing my snacking Habits.

So, again, I officially stopped this new No S, no-snacking attempt.
I didn't even succeed in motivating myself to use it as a Plan for one day.
I am stilll allowing myself to snack - within my calorie limits.
I must do this now because I need Success. It motivates me to do well.
I, personally need to form food Plans in which I have an excellent chance at Success,
because Failure is not a viable option for me.

I think the "vanilla" No S Plan is great, and I enjoy watching people work at it and succeed.
Perhaps someday, I'll be able to incorporate the "no snacking" rule,
but apparently that day is not yet here.

The Positives are:
I am doing well at staying inside my Maintenance Weight Range,
and I'm also doing well with Shovelglove.

[gratefuldeb67]

Good for you Bright Angel!
You are maintaining and not gaining, and not resentful of having to account for calories and stuff.. The reason people usually come to NoS is because that method gets tiresome and eventually ineffective for many people.
If you are having success that way, and actually enjoying that, then no reason to change.
The old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" might apply well to you and your circumstances!
I'm very glad to hear you had an excellent January so far and that Shovelglove is going well!
Love
Debs

[BrightAngel]

Good for you Bright Angel!
The old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" might apply well to you and your circumstances!
Debs

Thanks, Debs
I greatly appreciate your support,
and I'm watching your progress with interest.

[gratefuldeb67]

Thanks Bright Angel!
By the way, I just came over here from the other thread to find your pictures and couldn't see where they are.
Have a nice day
Debs

[BrightAngel]

Thanks Bright Angel!
I came over here from the other thread to find your pictures and couldn't see where they are.
Debs

My pictures are in a post I made on April 25, which is in the middle of page one of this thread.
For convenience, here is a copy of those pictures.

As an introduction to those who might be interested in my progress,
below are links to some pictures and graphs of my History.

• 115 lbs 1/2006 http://pcollins.com/upload/DP-Goal/DP-Jeans.gif
  115 lbs 1/2006 http://pcollins.com/upload/DP-Goal/DP-Gaucho.gif
  105 lbs 7/2007 http://www.pcollins.com/upload/DP-Goal2 ... 7-3-07.gif
  105 lbs 8/2007 http://www.pcollins.com/upload/DP-Goal2/DP-Goal2/pc.gif
  Weight Loss History Graph http://pcollins.com/upload/DP-Goal/1-weightGraph-1.gif
  Weight Loss Calorie History Graph http://pcollins.com/upload/DP-Goal/1-calorieGraph-1.gif
  Weight Maintenance-1 year http://www.pcollins.com/upload/DP-Goal/ ... intain.gif
  Maintenance Calories-1 year http://www.pcollins.com/upload/DP-Goal/ ... intain.gif
  Weight Maintenance-2 years http://www.pcollins.com/upload/DP-Goal/ ... in-Lrg.gif
  Maintenance Calories-2 years http://www.pcollins.com/upload/DP-Goal/ ... in-Lrg.gif

[Nichole]

Hi Bright Angel,

I just wanted to share with you that you are not alone! Though I've never been very overweight (maybe just about 5 lbs overweight), I haven't found No-S to be very helpful long term. I get hungry between meals and I know that everybody tries to ignore it and say that it's "all in the mind", but when it's TRUE hunger (though what is 'fake' hunger??) and it makes you grumpy and a cup of milk just doesn't cut it, then it makes one think. So now I am calorie counting and find it much more enjoyable. It's not hard at all. You can have some low fat ice cream/frozen yogurt at the end of the day w/o feeling guilty or like a failure and still lose weight. It encourages consistency, so there is no crazy weekends that makes weight spike back up. I haven't made very many changes to my diet, but illiminating some calories has really helped. I use acaloriecounter.com and I love the articles there. I did learn a lot from no-S, that excess such as seconds and sweets are unneeded. But starving myself in between meals wasn't pleasurable at all. Just wanted to share that you're not alone in your calorie counting and in the fact that No-S is not for you.

[BrightAngel]

Just wanted to share that you're not alone in your calorie counting
and in the fact that No-S is not for you.

Thanks Nichole,
I like a great deal about No-S, and much of the diet.
It is the "vanilla No-S --re 3 meals no snacks" area that I personally have found impossible to follow.
Using my software program, Calorie counting isn't difficult for me.
and I have learned to enjoy the process.
Glad to have some company here.

[Nichole]

No problem! I also don't mind the process too much. I like the site that I found. I've tried many different calorie counting sites and I like acaloriecounter.com the best so far. I've been doing it 3 weeks and have lost about 1.5 lbs a week. I am growing to accept that you simply can't eat high fat foods that are bad for you on a regular basis without gaining unwanted pounds. It's a sad but true part of life, lol.

[BrightAngel]

I am growing to accept that
you simply can't eat high fat foods that are bad for you on a regular basis
without gaining unwanted pounds.

Nichole,
So very true.

The NoS Diet is a food plan that is intended to be a way to restrict calories
without counting them.
A calorie is simply a way that Science defines a unit of energy.
If one eats more calories during the five N days and two S days
than one's body burns over that week's time,
the same thing happens as in any other food plan or diet.
Calorie intake matters, whether calories are counted or not.

This is an inescapable fact, whether the restricting device is
plates, meals, points, carbs, or calories.

[BrightAngel]

I have not (yet) been able to establish a no-snacking Habit.
However, during the past 90 days
I have been quite successful with my daily food and exercise plans,
as detailed above.
Below is a screenshot of my HabitCal statistics for the past 90 days.

[gratefuldeb67]

Hi Bright Angel
It's great to see how successful you have been in sticking to the habits and goals you are setting for yourself.
I would just forget the whole need to change or even mention snacking anymore, because in your case, you are keeping the calories in check by sticking to a food plan and to a calories log. Though most people who come to NoS don't really want to have to count calories, you don't mind.
The whole reason that there is a "No Snacking" rule, is simply to avoid unaccountable eating and calories, but in a way that makes it less mental work.
You are doing great!!!
I see no need for you to qualify your posts and preface them with "Although I haven't been able to establish no snacking.." really.. You have come a long way in your weight loss journey, and maintained your weight for a long time and you are doing great!!

That's the ultimate goal of NoS anyway.
Have a good day and weekend!
Love,
Debs x

[BrightAngel]

You have come a long way in your weight loss journey, and
maintained your weight for a long time and
you are doing great!!

Thanks Debs

I am doing well,
however, I have not completely given up the notion
of establishing a no-snacking Habit,
simply because I suspect that if I could ever get such a Habit in place,
it would make maintenance far easier for me.
The snacking issue, for me, is separate from the calorie counting issue,
since I already have a strongly established calorie counting Habit
which I enjoy and intend to keep forever.

[BrightAngel]

Recently, I became willing to give the 3 meal/no snacks another try.
Here are my "Strictly Speaking No S" Results to date:
9/3: SUCCESS
9/4: SUCCESS
9/5: Exempt (S-day)
9/6: Exempt (S-day)
9/7: Exempt (S-day)
9/8: SUCCESS
9/9: SUCCESS
9/10: SUCCESS
9/11: SUCCESS
9/12: Exempt (S-day)
9/13: Exempt (S-day)

[connorcream]

Howdy,
I am considering giving Diet Power a try. How would you rate your success with it? How would you see your melding of it and NoS working out?
Thanks,
Connorcream

[BrightAngel]

Howdy,
I am considering giving Diet Power a try. How would you rate your success with it? How would you see your melding of it and NoS working out?
Thanks,
Connorcream

I have been using DietPower for the past 5 years, and I have logged in all of my food every day during that period...ie. 1842 days. I intend to continue using it for the rest of my life. During my first 16 months of DietPower use, I lost from 190 lbs down to my goal of 115. I have been working to maintain that weight during the almost 4 years since then. During that time I've used a great many different diets and food plans, but always continuing logging all my food into DietPower every day no matter what that food plan was.. Even all my VERY HIGH-CALORIE were always logged. I consider myself a 100% success with DietPower.

I started NoS about 1 1/2 years ago, and like the philosophy and the forum members here very much. I do not have a childhood Foundation of 3 meals no snacks, limited sweets like many members do, and I do not consider myself very successful at NoS ...certainly not "vanilla" NoS.

I see no reason why DietPower cannot meld with NoS or any other food intake plan. While the calorie counting it automatically does may not be for some, it is still good information to have. The National Weight Loss Registry lists record keeping as one of the primary factors of success for people who keep off their weight-loss. This is certainly the case for me.

[connorcream]

Howdy,
A generous and well articulated response, exactly what I have come to expect from your posts:-)

After a very rigorous go of NoS my weight higher than ever, I realized I am not sure of the caloric content food. I am 47 yrs, 7 children, 5'8" and don't know what a typical caloric day should be for ME at my age. It doesn't matter if it is one plate, if that is more than I should be eating, I will gain weight and how would I know what this value is if I don't take the time to learn.

I am very grateful for NoS for breaking me of snacks plus visible meals and the idea that maintenance needs to be as doable as the weight loss. I like Shovel Glove and 14 minute as a metric. But enough is enough with the gain. I have done WW, successful 2 times, life time member, SB, successful the one time I did that. NoS I did follow the rules but gained. I thus appreciate the maintenance being harder than the "diet". I am hoping, and perhaps it is wishful, that by looking at the caloric cost of food, I will put better choices on my plate. I am not sure if I could track forever and this is where NoS appeals. However, being large and not fitting into clothes must stop.

I travel a lot. I would find keeping a log difficult then. How did you handle this, assuming you needed to? What about weighing and measuring? Estimating these values is also a tricky prospect at times, especially in a restaurant.

[BrightAngel]

I travel a lot. I would find keeping a log difficult then. How did you handle this, assuming you needed to? What about weighing and measuring? Estimating these values is also a tricky prospect at times, especially in a restaurant.

Some people estimate the amounts of food they eat making notes about it in a small notebook, then input that data into their software program when they return to their computer. I do that if I'm just going to be away from my computer for a meal or two.

However, personally, when I travel I always take my Laptop which has a 2nd copy of DietPower loaded. Prior to leaving home I update my LapTop copy of DietPower using the DP "travel bag". Then while I'm away I put all of my food into my laptop just the way I do at home. When I return home, I use my DP "travelbag" to update my home computer.

When I eat in restaurants, I either use those standard portion sizes (like deck of cards, tennis ball, pair of dice etc.) OR I use my small travel food scale that I carry in my purse. I am also careful in what I choose when I eat out. I stick with "safe" simple foods. It is usually safe to eat 1/4 to 1/2 a turkey sandwich in most restaurants, or to order broiled steak and baked potato, etc. ..understanding that one can eat only 3 or 4 oz of the steak (about a deck of cards of the palm of one's hand), and 3 to 4 oz of potato. If one measures one's food at home all the time, it's pretty easy to eyeball and judge how much is 1/4 cup or 1/2 cup of rice, pasta, potatoes etc. One needs to understand that a restaurant portion of pasta is almost always 2 to 3 cups. I also ALWAYS insist that my server bring me a "to go" box AT THE SAME TIME as my meal, and I put the portion of my meal that is to be leftover into that box BEFORE I eat anything. When travelling, I usually throw the box and it's contents away after my meal.

http://www.caloriesperhour.com/index_burn.php
The above link will give you the standard chart calorie burn numbers for the average person of your height/age/weight/sex, (BMI-RMR) but understand that YOUR burn could be higher or even a whole lot lower.

[connorcream]

Howdy-
You are correct the number can vary but at least this a place to start which is 1600. I would think over the course of a few weeks a better target number would emerge.

I use Linux and Macs so having a small issue tech speaking. DP will soon be on the web then it won't matter the computer used. DH is also looking up emulators to solve this issue. While this goes on I can start to get a feel of what 600 cal is like, which frankly seems paltry at this point.

However, I keep thinking of this as I do my budgeting/money management of which I am very good. We have taught others in this area. So I am hoping to have similar success here. The part that has helped us win with money is a cash envelope. Having a fixed amount, pull from it, easy to see what is left to spend. When it is gone, it is gone. I had hopes the plate would be like that. But it isn't. KWIM.

I also rarely eat processed foods. Most meals are whipped together with items on hand. Will DP be able to work with that?

I have an iTouch and see apps for cal counting. I could use that until above tech issues are solved. Didn't think about a small scale. I am heading to Cracker Barrel tonight and couldn't find their cal for menus items. This will be a challenge.

BA have a blessed day! I have followed your posts for quite some time and am always enlightened by them.

[BrightAngel]

DP will soon be on the web then it won't matter the computer used.

I also rarely eat processed foods. Most meals are whipped together with items on hand. Will DP be able to work with that?

I have followed your posts for quite some time and am always enlightened by them.

Thanks connorcream for your kind comment.

One of the things I like best about DietPower is that it is a stand alone software program, and I don't have to be online to use it. If it changed to an online program, I would not purchase the online program, but continue using the one I have. DietPower works with windows, but not with macintosh.

There is a similiar online food journeling program called "fitday" which is totally free. You might want to see how you like that. I am used to DietPower, and find fitday a bit cumbersome. Plus, it is important to me to have my data available off line.

There is also an online software food journaling program at "thedailyplate.com" that has a monthly fee for use. I haven't used that one, but I've heard good things about it from others. Putting all your daily food into any of these programs will accomplish a great deal foryou.

DietPower works with any kind of food. It has a large data base of its own, and gives me the ability to add any extra foods (using label information) and also input recipes of my choice. Every time I make a homemade food, I add the recipe to my DietPower dictionary, and almost all of my all time favorites are now in it.

Good luck with whatever you do.

[connorcream]

Howdy,
What an eye opening past 5 days. I found an app for my iTouch that is independent of the internet, has numerous entries for calorie counting foods and started logging, while at the hotel and on the go seeing exhibits. When needed, later I would connect with a Wifi and find whatever foods not accounted for in the app. Much to my relief, and with the technology available, this was quick process.

I also dusted off my scale, and was shocked at how much I had gained over the past 1 1/2 yr on NoS. So weekly weighing of myself, and when needed food, is back.

I found the sites you suggested, they gave me a starting point for my resting calorie use and suggested deficit to lose 30 pounds over a 6-7 month time frame with a 1300 cal daily consumption. I expect to adjust this as loss occurs, but I do now expect a reasonable amount of loss over a realistic time frame as to the vague, it is a slow process.

I never had wild S days, and I quit keeping up with my calendar because it was green. However, it does matter what that something is and at my age those small calorie shifts really do add up.

I now see why WW, SB, or NoS works, the positives to each and the pitfalls too.

Habits that I am keeping:
1. Realizing yet again maintenance is harder than weight loss. So within my calorie consumption, if I choose to eat Apple Fritters on the weekend with the kids as an S, I need to account for that somewhere else.
2. Appreciate fruit as a dessert. Keeping no sweets.
3. Shovel Glove
4. Daily walking bumping up 14 min to 20 min over time
5. If I have a calorie loaded day, such as going to Oriental Buffet I won't try carrying over a balance
6. I like no snacks. I would rather have larger nicer meals than smaller skimpier meals.
7. I have never been one to get a second helping, except at buffet places, which I keep to a very minimum throughout the year.

BA thank you for being willing to post honestly of your walk. I will also copy this experience into my daily check in. It remains to be seen if daily journalling will be a habit, but with the internet and iTouch, it really is an easy process and more rewarding than checking off points with WW.

[BrightAngel]

connorcream, You are welcome.
I know that I, personally, would not be successful without daily food journaling.
DENIAL is a big issue for me,
and it is easy for me to believe lies I tell myself about my calorie density.
I need to be Accountable to myself every day for all of the foods I eat.

Bottom line,
The body does not reset itself every 24 hours,
similiar to the way we reset our minds or our computers.
If, over time, I take in more calories than I burn,
then it doesn't matter WHEN I eat those calories...
....whether during an N day,
OR whether as special treats during an S day.
In fact it is very, very easy to gain a great deal of weight
from the combination of low-calorie N days and out-of-control S days.

I think the caution "Don't Be An Idiot" is accurate, but isn't really helpful to many people,
because "Idot" is subjective, and
many of us can easily lie to ourselves about the calories in the specific foods and portion sizes we are eating.
In fact, Denial is a common symptom that most of us share.

[connorcream]

Howdy,
BA so true, so true. Denial and ignorance, at times, leads to bad choices. Gratis, gratis for willing to say these things.

Nos isn't wrong as much as it is incomplete for some, me in particular.

Butter, craisins, brown sugar,almonds aren't bad but added up the calories are substantial. This is one meal twice a week not realizing the consequences. Same with olive oil with bread as a dipping sauce or mayo on sandwiches. I have caught myself in numerous situations, making these small choices adding up to large consequences. Or 2 drinks at night- 300 cal minimum for white wine more when it was a margarita.

I regret not being in control of these facts sooner. I understand why SB, WW, or any other program succeeds. They limited calories in a seemingly easy manner. But in the end it doesn't work because the truth of the process isn't learned. SB brings to the table the aspect of fiber being filling and the glycemic index. NoS brings to the table sweets, snacks, sustainability. WW brings weekly accountability. All necessary but not sufficient in and of themselves.

Time of course will be the measure of success. I still need to figure out the calorie shifting needs over time but that will come.

We have a very special event to celebrate Sat. night. Return of SIL from Iraq permanently. I will plan for that over the next few days. Just like finances, saving up to buy something. This is akin to WW points but with more accuracy.

[connorcream]

Howdy,
Do you have a guess of how many calories Shovel Glove burns?

[BrightAngel]

Do you have a guess of how many calories Shovel Glove burns?

No...I find the issue unimportant.
Calories expended in exercise are very difficult to determine.
Most estimates by charts and individuals are gross overestimates.
Even the slightest difference in intensity of exertion changes the calorie burn of any exercise.

In fact, I agree with the school of thought that:
Exercise is for Fitness; (not weight-loss)
Nutrition is for health; (not weight-loss)
Lower-Calorie Food Intake is the key for weight-loss.

At the beginning of this year I purchased a BodyBugg
which is the most accurate scientfic measurement of individual energy on the market today.
Biggest Loser Contestants wear it.
I wore it continually for 6 months.

As a result I learned a great deal about my own exercise energy expenditure,
...in that according to the "charts" etc. my personal exercise calorie burn is quite high.
According to those charts I should have lost about 20 lbs during the 6 months ...
..combining my exercise with my food intake calories...

It simply did not happen.
My food intake records were extremely accurate,
My activity records were based on BodyBugg calculations,
but in actuality my weight stayed the same.
Those "extra earned exercise calories" did absolutely nothing to make me lose weight.

By the way, during that time I did daily 15 minutes of shovelglove with a 6 lb sledgehammer...
which is quite a workout for a small 60+ year old woman,
and BodyBugg showed extremely little energy expenditure for that activity.

[connorcream]

Howdy,

BodyBugg showed extremely little energy expenditure for that activity.

Fascinating discussion. From what I could gather, FitDay adjusts calorie burn for change in weight loss. I also have been quite careful this week, observing, recording, measuring and so have quite a few calories saved up for Sat. while still maintaining a weight loss.

I am finding I don't want to spend them, yet I think there needs to be a balance in doing so for the sake of making the process sustainable.

What do you think of the arguments about the time of day affecting weight loss? Is it just another way of calorie restriction or does the slower metabolism of the evening have some bearing?

And again, thank you so very much for your generous responses.

[BrightAngel]

What do you think of the arguments about the time of day affecting weight loss? Is it just another way of calorie restriction or does the slower metabolism of the evening have some bearing?

I don't think the metabolism is much different while one is awake.
If you are asking about the time of day one exercises, I don't think it matters.
If you are asking about the time of day one eats, I also think it matters very little.
I think it is mostly simply another kind of calorie restriction.

However, if eating before bedtime causes one to lose a bit of a weight-loss "edge"
it would be due to the fact that eating after dinner causes digestion to continue
during the first part of one's sleeptime which delays the night time "fasting" phase.
This is because during the absorptive phase, insulin is high and glucagon is low,
while duing the fasting phase, insulin is low and glucagon is high.
High levels of glucagon are said to promote the release of fat from fat cells.
However, if...for example... those "night eaters", don't eat until lunch,
they would have the same amount of time in the "fasting" phase,
so actually I don't see how the eating time of day would matter.

[Kevin]

That's great!

There are days when I just have to put something in my stomach after I arrive home, before dinner, otherwise I get a little nasty with my family. But on those days I usually just eat the apple I could easily have had with lunch. I figure that it's really deferred lunch, but I'm still wary of it.

Way to go!

I've had 11 successful no-snacking days.
Interestingly enough,
I've also had 11 successful no s days.
For me, it appears that once the no-snacking gets in line,
it's easy for me to follow the rest of no s.

11 days ago, I planned to allow myself "authorized" snacks,
but it hasn't been necessary for me to do so.
I've made it through with no snacks at all.
And I've actually been following the basic no s.
No one could be more surprised than I am.

So, I'm feeling hopeful as I begin Day 12 of no-snacking.

[connorcream]

Howdy,
No...I find the issue unimportant.
Calories expended in exercise are very difficult to determine.
Most estimates by charts and individuals are gross overestimates.
Even the slightest difference in intensity of exertion changes the calorie burn of any exercise.

The above is well taken however from the perspective of judging which calorie burn setting with the various calculators one needs to pick something. I chose sedentary, as I didn't think I burned many calories per se walking or shovel glove but then I started second guessing myself. I figured if I am more active, shown by too rapid of weight loss, I could bump it up. But with pre menopause and 47, I erred on the side of a low burning calorie metabolism.

We usually eat around 6 PM but I remember some gurus making a point of not eating after 5 PM because of slower metabolism issues. I rarely eat after 7 PM, unless it is a party. Same for exercise. Sometimes I walk after dinner latest 8 PM. Other times morning or late afternoon again rarely at night unless it is paddling around in a pool.

Thank you for the time it takes answering.