The Blessings of Simplicity

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

Moderators: Soprano, automatedeating

nosnos
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:22 pm
Contact:

Am I missing something?

Post by nosnos » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:19 pm

Kathleen it's been a tweak-a-day the last week or 2.

Why exactly are you tweaking?! - You were losing weight with vanilla and enjoying it.

Get back on track before the customary weight gain starts.

I say this as I care, you may not realise it (or even agree with it) but from my position you look like you are starting to spiral.
:) nosnos

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:03 am

Hi Kathleen,
I really hope you can resist the urge to keep changing things.

One of the best things about No-S for me is the habit aspect. If you follow it long enough, it becomes automatic and you barely have to think about it. Your hunger becomes so used to the three meal schedule that you actually only really get hungry about 30 - 60 minutes before the next meal is due.

By changing the rules a lot, and by having some days of the week following No-S rules and others not, I don't see how this will ever become a habit for you. It will remain a conscious effort, which means it will remain harder than it can be.

I'd really, really encourage you to just stick with the very simple rules of No-S, and give them a chance to become habit. The peace is worth it!

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:42 am

nosnos and ironchef,
I look at my son, with a low B already in calculus, sitting on the computer looking at his notes while switching to Facebook, and ask myself, "When is that kid going to learn?" It must run in the family...

Habit is key. Habit what Aristotle identifies as the key to virtue. A person may work hard to develop a habit, but a habit once developed is relatively easy to maintain. No S can be a habit. I need to accept the weight that results from that habit, and leave the rest to God.
Kathleen

User avatar
~reneew
Posts: 2190
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:20 pm
Location: midwest US

Post by ~reneew » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:28 pm

It's working... give it time. Look at the big picture. Think long-term. :wink:
I guess this doesn't work unless you actually do it.
Please pray for me

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:39 am

Kathleen wrote:I need to accept the weight that results from that habit
This is a great insight. Also, I agree with reneew, it is working! 7 pounds in what, 2 months, might sounds slow, but that would mean 42 pounds in a year. You can do this Kathleen!

Gepetto
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:53 pm
Location: Michigan

Post by Gepetto » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:43 am

Hi Kathleen,

I'll add my words of support to ironchef, ~reneew and nosnos.

You have a great and powerful insight in choosing to let go of the weight, and focus on the habit - the results will follow naturally.
Start Date: 11/12/2012
Start Weight: 323 lbs.
Current Weight: 320 lbs.
Last Signature Update: 11/25/2012

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:34 am

Gepetto,
Have you just started with No S? Someone once said to me that you sometimes can have a clearer idea of what you should do if you imagine giving a child of yours advice. For some reason, I thought of that saying and wondered what would I say to someone just starting No S. What wisdom could I pass on after years of struggling? Would I suggest combining No S with watching your weight on the scale and then adjusting according to weight? No. My hope is I have finally learned that lesson.
Kathleen

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:59 pm

The Blessings of Simplicity: December, 2012

The No S Diet:
Many different modifications over almost four years, especially one which allowed everything in front of me at one meal instead of one plateful at one meal.
(Month 1) Day 1 - Monday, September 8, 2008: 215.0

The Sustainable Diet:
Unrestricted eating every Saturday and Sunday.
No snacks, sweets, or seconds on weekdays except for Planned S Days.
S Days must be planned at least two nights in advance.
Unlike with No S, I do not limit myself to one plateful. I do have everything in front of me before I take one bite.
If I go outside those guidelines, I mark it in red as an Unplanned S Day.
Focus on increasing exercise.

Weight Summary
(Month 1) Day 1 - Saturday, November 10, 2012: 215.0
(Month 2) Day 1 - Saturday, December 1, 2012: 214.2

S Days:
Day 22 – Saturday, December 1, 2012: 214.2
Day 23 – Sunday, December 2, 2012:
Day 24 – Monday, December 3, 2012:
Day 25 – Tuesday, December 4, 2012:
Day 26 – Wednesday, December 5, 2012:
Day 27 – Thursday, December 6, 2012:
Day 28 – Friday, December 7, 2012:
Day 29 – Saturday, December 8, 2012: 211.4
Day 30 – Sunday, December 9, 2012:
Day 31 – Monday, December 10, 2012: Unplanned S Day
Day 32 – Tuesday, December 11, 2012:Unplanned S Day
Day 33 – Wednesday, December 12, 2012: FAIL
Day 34 – Thursday, December 13, 2012:(2)
Day 35 – Friday, December 14, 2012: (1)
Day 36 – Saturday, December 15, 2012:
Day 37 – Sunday, December 16, 2012:
Day 38 – Monday, December 17, 2012:
Day 39 – Tuesday, December 18, 2012:
Day 40 – Wednesday, December 19, 2012:
Day 41 – Thursday, December 20, 2012:
Day 42 – Friday, December 21, 2012:
Day 43 – Saturday, December 22, 2012:
Day 44 – Sunday, December 23, 2012:
Day 45 – Monday, December 24, 2012:
Day 46 – Tuesday, December 25, 2012: S Day
Day 47 – Wednesday, December 26, 2012:
Day 48 – Thursday, December 27, 2012:
Day 49 – Friday, December 28, 2012:
Day 50 – Saturday, December 29, 2012:
Day 51 – Sunday, December 30, 2012:
Day 52 – Monday, December 31, 2012:

Journal:
Day 22 – Saturday, December 1, 2012: I was going to change my diet and started at the beginning of my journal here on September 8, 2008. I got to September 13 and decided to return to this diet. It was heartbreaking to read my journal and see that I was tweaking and tweaking more than four years ago and was saying, "I'm in a trap that few escape."

Day 23 – Sunday, December 2, 2012: Katie is playing Christmas songs, and so I hear "another year older..." as I type. Yesterday I read with alarm Tom's medical records which he has asked me to request because he wanted to go to the local doctor. In there the doctor recommends medication for control of something (long medical name) but Tom had insisted he will exercise, he will lose weight.... It scared me. Here it is Sunday morning, and he had to leave to make a 9 AM flight. He's gotten exercise when Katie and Ellie have been dogsitting (including this weekend) but that's about it.

I got up this morning, ran the bath, and then remembered I was supposed to exercise. I drained the bath and now am waiting for a 9 AM news show so I can be distracted while I'm on the exercise bike. I asked for headphones for Christmas so I can listen to something I downloaded to my iPod.... lectures on ancient Greece. That gives me flexibility to exercise whenever I want and to listen to something that requires more concentration than I can get when ironing (an iPod is there, too).

This is customization. Everyone is different. Everyone needs to exercise and to eat moderately, and there are different ways to get there. Not many would look forward to going on the exercise bike because they get to listen to lectures on Greek history. This is my way. What is sustainable is to find a way to make the exercise time enjoyable.

Day 24 – Monday, December 3, 2012: I raced through the day not feeling great at all. Tonight I bought a room humidifier and am feeling better. I did not eat that much. Was it because I wasn't feeling well or because I had settled on this approach? Time will tell. I think that the number one goal for my dieting has got to be no binges. I cannot get there by focusing on it. Instead, I have to get there by creating a feeling of security that I can eat soon and plentifully. "Portion control" leads to binge behavior: I'm convinced of that. There may be a few, a very few, who can feel like they are starving all the time and still keep to it. I am not one of those. I also wonder if it is good for them in the long run. Isn't there a lot of stress associated with feeling like you are starving all the time?

Day 25 – Tuesday, December 4, 2012:

Day 26 – Wednesday, December 5, 2012: Another busy day, and we had a staff meeting from noon to 1. I wasn't much hungry. I went down after the staff meeting to eat because I didn't want to eat before then, and as I was walking back I was struck by how many morbidly obese women were having meetings in some less formal areas near the dining area. It occurred to me that obese people may have some very positive traits. Actually, my project manager is a gem, and she is quite heavy. What are the traits of people who believe the doctors when they say you need to watch your weight and control your portions? They are traits that can be good: a willingness to defer to authority, a willingness to deny immediate pleasure because of a longer term goal... Now the sad fact is that the golden ring of being thin is not gained by portion control, so all the effort is of no avail. What is the trait of a morbidly obese person? The trait of someone who persists despite failure after failure after failure.

All good. I ought to harness my willingness to defer to authority, my willingness to deny immediate pleasure, and the willingness to persist and actually achieve weight loss by sticking to this plan, not weighing myself, and accepting that maybe, just maybe, I no longer am meant to have a 24 inch waist.

Day 27 – Thursday, December 6, 2012: Today I took as a vacation day so I could catch up at home. It's also a school holiday for Tom and Katie because there are conferences. Now I have to take Katie to recite prayers for confirmation (make up work) at 8:30 and take Tom to take a makeup test, so I'll drop Katie and a friend at the mall and Tom at school while I go back to work for an hour to complete something I did not have time to do because I had to leave early for Ellie's band concert.

How the heck, with my life, did I expect to be fighting starvation every minute of every day? How the heck can anyone, stressed or not, willingly feel like they are starving all the time? Diets are invitations for daily failure. It seems so obvious to me now, but it took a long time to get there.

Since deciding I'm sticking with this approach no matter what the weight, my appetite has fallen like the drop at the beginning of the Pirates ride at Disneyland This was not expected. I'm not hungry. When I eat, I don't eat much. I don't think about food at all except when it is mealtime and even then I might not. Yesterday I forgot to eat breakfast until I was already at work.

When I was single, I went backpacking a lot. Once in California we were backpacking and then went through this stunning meadow. It was completely unexpected and just wonderful. That's how I feel now. Suddenly, and I hope permanently, my thoughts are not dominated by thoughts about food.

10:15 PM: I'm in this weird limbo between two worlds, as I leave the world of the obese and enter the world of the thin. I wish I could explain it. Maybe I can explain it this way: A few days ago I called a progressive radio show, told the woman I really enjoyed her show, and told her the reason why is that I was trying to understand the progressive viewpoint. She was talking about taxing the rich. I then told her my favorite book this year was Frederick Douglass' autobiography, and I brought up two points from that book: that Frederick considered the slaveholder to be like a robber who took the fruit of his labor because he could. I explained that that is how the rich feel. They feel robbed. I then said that the other item from the book that really struck me was that Frederick had assumed the north would be poorer because there were no slaves. Instead, he found that they were richer, and he realized that people work harder when they work for themselves. The talk show host could not get me off the phone quickly enough! She sure did not want to explore my line of reasoning.

I think I've got a fairly good idea of the progressive outlook, but I really do not know yet how a thin person thinks. Why? They don't really talk about it. Why? They don't really think about what they eat or how much. It is the obese who are obsessed with food. Why? I think it is due to portion control. Overeating is really eating in anticipation of not having enough to eat in the future.

Busy day. Another day when I did not really think about food.

Day 29 – Saturday, December 8, 2012: I decided to weigh myself and was pleasantly surprised by how much weight loss was recorded on the scale. It may be OK if I just weigh myself once per week. Of course, it was also an exciting week at work. I ended up being dropped from the project effective 12/21. That is the life of a contractor. I suspected it was coming and even told my husband. The good news is that I am getting a good internal reference and the recruiting firm will start to remarket me. The hiring manager ran out of stuff for me to do. I need sign off on one more project which should be done this week. I asked for more to do and was given something that isn't really business analysis work. It was a terrific experience as far as what work I did, but I would be hesitant to return to that hiring manager. In the first six weeks, I tracked time against 10 different things. When the project manager came on board, she got me focused on three. What else I was doing wasn't really business analyst work, either.

As for the diet, can I really call it a diet? It's so easy because there is no concern about dealing with hunger that cannot be satisfied. This diet amounts to delays in eating until mealtime for five or fewer days per week plus a restriction on sweets on those same days. That is a fairly simple an easy diet to follow.

I am now experiencing what I think may be the life of a thin person. I just plain don't think about food except when preparing or eating it. Just think about all the wonderful thinks to think about! I can think about the first snow and my parents coming here for Christmas and the dog that the girls will start dogsitting in an hour and Tommy taking the ACT for the first time and Ellie finally being able to sled and climb ropes because her arm is healed after breaking it falling out of a tree. Life is beautiful. There is beauty in so much. I was telling my Katie that she has such a gift in finding in beauty in so many places. She wanted to swing by the house of the Scoutmaster who has Christmas lights timed to music. That's the stuff of life. That's what I want to occupy my thoughts!

Don't be surprised if I write less here. It may be best for me to write less going forward. A once per week check in might work best. I can celebrate now, but over time I think I will just not remember my preoccupation with food. Thinking about this reminds me of my desire to live in Denver. I loved the mountains! I loved hiking! I moved to Denver and within six weeks was offered a job. Did I take it? No. After a few weeks, I did not thrill at looking up and seeing the mountains in the distance. I got used to it. Sure it was positive, but there were many negatives about Denver. It's in a bowl so smog is a problem. It is dry, and I just hated that. Now, for me, I predict the thrill of no longer thinking about food will fade quickly. My thoughts will be occupied with my family, financing college, and working. My thoughts can also turn to just plain enjoying this moment of my life.

Day 31 – Monday, December 10, 2012: Writing may help me stay on track. I had a very busy day and had pretzels for lunch at about 5. I did not get home until after 7:30 and had a sandwich. I should have gone to bed but ended up eating two fruit and nut bars and an apple. Not bad for breaking the N Day rules. Now I'll go to bed.

Day 32 – Tuesday, December 11, 2012: I had so much fun today as I prepared for a requirements walkthrough tomorrow. Also, someone I met who works in a neighboring group sent out an email recommending me. That was so nice!

9 PM: When I broke the diet tonight, it was a little more serious: 1/2 peanut butter sandwich and three fruit and nut bars. Why? Because I could. You know what? The secret to this diet is you tune out food when it isn't mealtime unless you have a planned S Day. I'm not doing that. I've opened the door to eating outside mealtime. It's time to get serious. I'm listening to Boehner right now. It's time to get serious... Am I in or am I out? I'm in. I just need to decide I've been over 200 pounds for 10 years. It's time to eliminate the unplanned S Day.

Day 33 – Wednesday, December 12, 2012: Well, well, well... Have I learned my lesson yet? I think of that test that was done to four year olds regarding willpower. They were left alone with a marshmallow and were promised another marshmallow if they could just not eat that one for 15 minutes. Those who succeeded distracted themselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EjJsPylEOY

This is a valuable lesson for me. I need to learn to tune out hunger except at mealtime. Habit -- consistent habit -- is the key here. I have noticed on occasion that I have learned to tune out hunger. For example, last week, there was an open house at the Boy Scout troop for the younger Webelos considering joining the troop at the end of the year. Cookies were left out, and a mother was on guard to let the parents of the Boy Scouts know that the treats were for the Boy Scouts. I saw the treats. It did not occur to me to take a cookie. Now that was success!

I need to give up the unplanned S Day idea. I need to call it a failure fair and square. Whatever the circumstances that might arise, it is just not worth being fat so that I have to deal with being tempted by food all the time. I look at the torture experienced by those four year olds alone with a marshmallow and see myself in them. Don't I smell the food and touch it when I am tempted and trying to decide whether to eat something?

No. It is much saner to just dispense with the idea of Unplanned S Days and build a strong habit so that, consistently, I just plain am not tempted by a cookie. There is no need for portion control. I eat what I want at mealtimes except for sweets on S Days and eat whatever I want on the weekend and planned S Days. I am going to clarify that weekday S Days must be planned at least two nights in advance.

9 PM: Two fruit and nut bars, cottage cheese. Maybe another tactic? I think I'll try one year of no weighing myself and no fails.

Day 34 – Thursday, December 13, 2012: Another dismal day for dieting, all after I got home. I think I'm being let go because of a personality clash with my boss. I have a WYSIWYG face and would not do well at poker. That woman disturbs me. I came out of an hour long staff meeting wishing I could take a shower. She just slams person after person. Today it was about 10 people not in the room. Maybe it's because I'm the mother of teenagers, but I don't like nastiness. My work is in great shape: I should have everything wrapped up tomorrow and then I just am doing a lower priority task next week. I can be happy with the work I did.

As for my diet, who knows? I think I expected more of myself than I can deliver. The heart of the problem for me with this diet is the unplanned S Day. Losing weight by counting Exception Days was slow, and I lost patience. It's time to just accept that I am going to lose weight not at all or at the rate that my body wants. The Exception Day approach gives my body that chance to be comfortable.

Tomorrow is another day, only it's not. Now is the moment.

Day 35 – Friday, December 14, 2012: This is a hard time of year to stick to a diet. I do think, however, that there may be something to the periodic need to just let loose. The 12 days of Christmas used to be that time. So did the time between Easter and the second Sunday of Easter. I think I'll have exceptions every day for those days except that I won't this year because I just had my week of letting go.


Day 36 – Saturday, December 15, 2012:
Day 37 – Sunday, December 16, 2012:
Day 38 – Monday, December 17, 2012:
Day 39 – Tuesday, December 18, 2012:
Day 40 – Wednesday, December 19, 2012:
Day 41 – Thursday, December 20, 2012:
Day 42 – Friday, December 21, 2012:
Day 43 – Saturday, December 22, 2012:
Day 44 – Sunday, December 23, 2012:
Day 45 – Monday, December 24, 2012:
Day 46 – Tuesday, December 25, 2012:
Day 47 – Wednesday, December 26, 2012:
Day 48 – Thursday, December 27, 2012:
Day 49 – Friday, December 28, 2012:
Day 50 – Saturday, December 29, 2012:
Day 51 – Sunday, December 30, 2012:
Day 52 – Monday, December 31, 2012:
Last edited by Kathleen on Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:03 am, edited 17 times in total.

heatherhikes
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:57 pm
Location: uetliberg

Post by heatherhikes » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:00 am

Kathleen wrote: Not many would look forward to going on the exercise bike because they get to listen to lectures on Greek history. This is my way. What is sustainable is to find a way to make the exercise time enjoyable.
Kathleen,
just wanted to say hello and visit with you. You are an inspiration to me (and I believe many others) how you continue on, not giving up. This reminds me of myself.
I can understand that you enjoy listening to lectures on Greek history, how inspiring!
And you are right, the clincher is to find a way for ourselves...not for someone else...to keep exercise something to look forward to.
I, for example, enjoyed my hike in wind and rain a few days ago, up and down those Swiss hills where I live. Someone else probably looked outside her window and sayed, "nobody gets me outside today. I'll walk when the sun comes out." But I feel adventurous when it's stormy and wintry, strange, ha? To each its own; but we got to find IT and then keep doing it...I'm motivated just writing this :lol:
Well, I also like to hike when it's nice outside.
__________
Heddi

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:51 am

heddi55,
I'm inspired just thinking of the Swiss Alps! I live in a town right next to the city of Minneapolis. It is the headquarters of General Mills, the manufacturer of Cheerios and other foods. They gave land to the town, and so I am just a block from a walking path through some woods. It's not exactly the Swiss Alps, but it is so nice to be in something like nature! When I walk down the street and try to take our Pepper around the block instead of toward the walking path through the woods, she pulls and pulls because her favorite spot is that walking path!

Thanks for encouraging me. I have some excellent reasons to persist. It's not just for me... It's for my kids and husband.

Kathleen
Last edited by Kathleen on Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

clarinetgal
Posts: 1709
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:16 am
Location: Western Washington State

Post by clarinetgal » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:10 am

You are so right about finding a form of exercising that works for you! For me, it's a total body weights workout (or sometimes a cardio workout) choreographed to fun music, such as Body Pump, or my Firm dvds (the older ones from the 90s are the ones I like the best). I also like to combine short segments from several of my dvds, so that I don't have to spend too much time with one instructor or one routine. I've tried doing straight cardio or weights at my local gym, and I'll do it if I have to, but I get SO bored.

Kathleen, Like heddis said, you are doing really great to stay persistent, and not give up. I wish you the best.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:46 pm

clarinetgal,
I read a long time ago, where I don't know, that people who are successful at losing weight tend to focus on health rather than weight. That idea has been bouncing around in my head ever since I read it. Now I'm thinking staying off the scale is a key success factor for me. If I weigh myself only once per month, then my focus can shift to exercise. Now I need to figure out how to make it work for me!
Kathleen

milliem
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:30 pm

Post by milliem » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:16 pm

Kathleen wrote: "Portion control" leads to binge behavior: I'm convinced of that. There may be a few, a very few, who can feel like they are starving all the time and still keep to it. I am not one of those. I also wonder if it is good for them in the long run. Isn't there a lot of stress associated with feeling like you are starving all the time?
I just thought I'd share my experience - on N days and even some S days now, I quite often feel hungry. I'm hungry right now! I've never got into the habit of breakfast so I feel hungry in the morning before my midday meal, and if I don't plan a mid-afternoon mini meal, I can often feel hungry before dinner if it's later than 6pm. You know what? It's not so bad. I think I prefer feeling a bit hungry now to feeling overstuffed, and it tells me that I haven't overeaten! It definitely took some getting used to and a bit of re-training my brain, but I think I can tell the difference now between hunger in preparation for the next meal, and 'oh my god I'm STARVING I need to eat something or I'll feel ill'. Pretty sure the second one is rare!

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:54 pm

milliem,
Isn't it wonderful to go a whole day and the only time you thought about food was when it was at mealtime? I was busy today at work and did not get to lunch until after 1. Did I think about food? No. That's why I think this is the right path. There is no stress. I have time to stress out about getting Ellie to Invention Convention tonight!
Kathleen

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:13 am

milliem wrote:
Kathleen wrote: "Portion control" leads to binge behavior: I'm convinced of that. There may be a few, a very few, who can feel like they are starving all the time and still keep to it. I am not one of those. I also wonder if it is good for them in the long run. Isn't there a lot of stress associated with feeling like you are starving all the time?
I just thought I'd share my experience - on N days and even some S days now, I quite often feel hungry. I'm hungry right now! I've never got into the habit of breakfast so I feel hungry in the morning before my midday meal, and if I don't plan a mid-afternoon mini meal, I can often feel hungry before dinner if it's later than 6pm. You know what? It's not so bad. I think I prefer feeling a bit hungry now to feeling overstuffed, and it tells me that I haven't overeaten! It definitely took some getting used to and a bit of re-training my brain, but I think I can tell the difference now between hunger in preparation for the next meal, and 'oh my god I'm STARVING I need to eat something or I'll feel ill'. Pretty sure the second one is rare!
Can I ask what "portion control" means in the context of this discussion? In my head, my portions are controlled - only what I can fit on one (non-vertically stacked) plate.

Part of the reason I like No-S is that my day goes: hungry->good meal->satisfied->peckish->hungry->next good meal. Enjoying a meal for me means I need to arrive at that meal a little hungry, it tastes a lot better that way. The "lots of little meals" diets always made me feel unsatisfied: never really hungry, but never really full either.

The only time I've ever really felt "starving" was years ago when I did the 40 hour famine as a fund raiser (no eating for 40 hours, money raised sent to famine victims overseas). Although I wouldn't want to repeat that exercise, it was good to realize that the hunger I experience in my daily life is trivial.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:14 am

ironchef,

I don't follow the "portion control" portion of the diet. I let myself eat whatever is in front of me before I take one bite. Today at lunch, I had a salad and a muffin. Knowing I can have whatever I want dampened my appetite. Why eat now if I'm not hungry now and can be guaranteed to eat later?

Any recommendations of colleges for study abroad for a smart, Minnesota born and bred college sophomore who wants to study engineering or earth science? She wrote her country report on Australia and wants to go somewhere in Australia? I might be related to this young lady who was my inspiration to get my act together about eating.

Kathleen

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:20 am

Kathleen wrote:ironchef,I don't follow the "portion control" portion of the diet. I let myself eat whatever is in front of me before I take one bite. Today at lunch, I had a salad and a muffin. Knowing I can have whatever I want dampened my appetite. Why eat now if I'm not hungry now and can be guaranteed to eat later?
Ah, I missed where that changed.
I don't follow the hungry / not hungry cues so much as the clock - is it meal time or not. I've found that over time, my body "knows" to be hungry at meal time :)
Any recommendations of colleges for study abroad for a smart, Minnesota born and bred college sophomore who wants to study engineering or earth science? She wrote her country report on Australia and wants to go somewhere in Australia? I might be related to this young lady who was my inspiration to get my act together about eating.
I got my engineering degree from the University of Western Australia. I've heard good things about the University of Queensland, especially for engineering / resources. The biggest cities are Sydney and Melbourne, so if she is keen to be at the center of the action in a big city, perhaps look there.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:58 am

Thanks. She is going to be doing some research over winter break.

I have always struggled with the one plateful rule because I like apples and could just not see an apple on a plate next to meat. I went back to my monthly post and clarified that I just have everything in front of me before I take one bite.
Kathleen

Eurobabe2
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:31 pm

Post by Eurobabe2 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:56 pm

NO NO NO NO NO!!!! No new tactics. :( No new ideas. No new tweaks.
You've had many successful days and a few days of failure.
That's it, that's all.
Back on that horse, and try again.
You've tried many times not to weigh yourself, and every time you came to the conclusion that it was a way to fool yourself about how much you were eating.
You have, God willing, many, many days ahead of you. If MOST are successful in the NO-S department, you will lose weight.
If you start tweaking again, we know what will happen.

milliem
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:30 pm

Post by milliem » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:56 pm

I think I'll try one year of no weighing myself and no fails.
By demanding perfection of yourself you are setting yourself up to fail. No-one is perfect and failure is part of learning! Keep going, you've been doing really well at focusing on habits and vanilla NoS :)

P.s. be kind to yourself at this time of year, it's a struggle for anyone to keep to the regular structure in the festive season!

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:59 am

This is a hard time of year to stick to a diet. I do think, however, that there may be something to the periodic need to just let loose. The 12 days of Christmas used to be that time. So did the time between Easter and the second Sunday of Easter. I think I'll have exceptions every day for those days except that I won't this year because I just had my week of letting go.
I totally understand this is a hard time of year - parties all around, lots of special foods that people only make once a year. However, I think that 12 days of exceptions, or whatever, is a really bad idea. Maybe 100 years ago when food was scarce the rest of the winter or something. The whole point of No-S is that it becomes habit, second nature, and therefore takes less effort as time goes on. Taking a special day for a party or Christmas Day makes sense. Taking two weeks off means a big set back for habit.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:39 pm

The Blessings of Simplicity: December 16, 2012

The No S Diet:
Many different modifications over almost four years, especially one which allowed everything in front of me at one meal instead of one plateful at one meal.
(Month 1) Day 1 - Monday, September 8, 2008: 215.0

The Sustainable Diet:
Many different modifications over almost four years, especially one which allowed everything in front of me at one meal instead of one plateful at one meal.
(Month 1) Day 1 - Monday, September 8, 2008: 215.0

The Sustainable Diet:
Unrestricted eating every Saturday and Sunday. No snacks, sweets, or seconds on weekdays. At meals, I can have everything that is in front of me even it if does not fit on one plate. There is a rolling average of 2 Exception Days per month which are weekdays when I have unrestricted eating. I can take Exception Days for any reason I want and do not need to plan ahead to take an Exception Day.

Three Keys:
Key #1: No "portion control" ever.
Key #2: Habits that are followed with perfection.
Key #3: A strict accounting of "on" days (when rules are followed) and "off" days (when there are no rules).


Weight Summary
(Month 1) Day 0 - Saturday, December 15, 2012: 215.4

S Days:
Day 0 – Saturday, December 15, 2012:215.4
Day 1 – Sunday, December 16, 2012:
Day 2 – Monday, December 17, 2012: 216.6
Day 3 – Tuesday, December 18, 2012: 214.2
Day 4 – Wednesday, December 19, 2012: 213.4
Day 5 – Thursday, December 20, 2012: 213.0
Day 6 – Friday, December 21, 2012: 213.4
Day 7 – Saturday, December 22, 2012: 212.2
Day 8 – Sunday, December 23, 2012:
Day 9 – Monday, December 24, 2012:
Day 10 – Tuesday, December 25, 2012:
Day 11 – Wednesday, December 26, 2012:
Day 12 – Thursday, December 27, 2012:
Day 13 – Friday, December 28, 2012: 215.0
Day 14 – Saturday, December 29, 2012:
Day 15 – Sunday, December 30, 2012:
Day 16 – Monday, December 31, 2012:

Journal:
Day 0 – Saturday, December 15, 2012: This is a personality trait. I am a perfectionist. I want to have everything done perfectly. I tweak at work, too, but the way I get things done is by setting a deadline. Yesterday, for example, I was not going to leave until I had off my desk something I started working on in the morning.

Tom is trying to talk with my as I type, and I'm dressed in exercise clothes to go on the bike. What am I doing? I'm returning to the diet I followed the longest. Unplanned S Days are addressed with a rolling average of two Exception Days per month. There is no ambiguity, and I like that.

Maybe, maybe I'll consider blocks of time off, but if I do it won't be until the week after Easter. That is a tradition in Christianity, and it may have some merit. In the meantime, two Exception Days per month.

2:30 PM: I need to just dive in and follow this program. What is necessary and what is unnecessary? I need a way to track Exception Days. That's it. I can do this manually and report back here monthly.

Day 1 – Sunday, December 16, 2012: It is Guadette Sunday, the third Sunday in Advent, and I decided to make today my Day 1 even though I did not weigh myself this morning. This morning, Ellie was trying to negotiate to not shower but just wash her hair. I told her no because we have her on a schedule for showering. I don't need to figure out when she last showered. Instead, I just have her on a schedule which includes Sunday morning. It's easier. It occurred to me that having a kid on a shower schedule is easier the way it is easier to follow the diet of eating at mealtimes and tuning out hunger outside mealtimes.

We then went to Mass, and the priest had what I think may have been the best sermon of his that I've heard and we've been members since 1995. Guadette means joyful. The reading is from Phillippians 4 about the joy of being Christian. It must have been a challenge for him to give a sermon on joy just two days after some evil person shot to death kindergarteners and teachers at an elementary school in Newton, CT. How did he do it? He contrasted the path of evil with the path of good. He said people become evil when they persist in doing what is bad and people become good when they persist in doing what is good. He then talked about people losing their moral compass and not really knowing good from evil.

I did not sit there thinking about my diet. I thought about how true what he was saying for every action we take and from the decision to plan or not plan and create habits or not.

As specifically relates to dieting, however, you cannot create habits if you are changing what you do based on the weight on the scale today. Weight fluctuates! It's almost cruel that every day standing on the scale is like rolling the dice. No -- weight can be a general guideline only.

What is essential for me with my weight is not whether or not I journal or whether or not I weigh myself or even whether or not I exercise. The only essential thing is to follow the diet of eating at mealtimes on weekdays. Those unplanned S Days threw a monkey wrench in my diet. I cannot manage except by counting. I need total lack of ambiguity. I remember once taking an S Day because I had one Tic Tac. That is OK!!! That is my way. I need total lack of ambiguity.

Oh, the destructive impact of dieting on most of my life! I do think there is something evil behind it. I have worked hard to lose weight and have had the best of motivations (my health and the health of my children) and the willingness to work hard. Something was tripping me up. There it is: my desire to create habits was being destroyed by my worship of the scale.

The good Lord has been with me in times of trouble. I saw a picture in the paper from the Newton massacre of a man looking up as if he was looking up to heaven for comfort. Was he a father? Had he lost a child? I do not know, but God was with him. God is with me now to deal with a deeply entrenched bad habit. There is no comparison, none whatsoever, between the pain of a parent who may have lost a kindergartener to an evil man, and me facing my most entrenched bad habit. The only similarity is we both look to God for help. Now that I know what I need to do, I ask God's help to do it.

7 PM: I am stuffed. For some reason, I needed to go through the process of stuffing myself to let myself know I could do it. There is a lot of psychological consequence to years of dieting, and I just need to trust that my body needs to go through it. It's something like the five stages of grief only different stages. I've been in the stage of trying to speed the process along by tweaking and that approach backfired in a big way because my body just did not trust I would not careen into another Novena Diet or fast. Now I need to just put one foot in front of the other and follow the diet. Four more days of work left! I'm excited! I am taking Thursday off to go pick up Anne and then we are having lunch out with my Mom, sister in law and niece. We are picking up Ellie and everyone except my sister in law is going to the museum for a special exhibit. It should be fun! I want to keep my attention on this and just let the dieting fade into the background. I've got my plan and need to follow it.

Day 2 – Monday, December 17, 2012: I came home early from work because I'm done with my work and am just helping out now where I can. On the drive to work, I heard a discussion around whether the shooter in the Newtown, CT massacre was sick or evil. Maybe sick is not the appropriate thing to say. Maybe we have lost the definition of evil.

Day 3 – Tuesday, December 18, 2012: Last night, I watched a youtube interview of a couple that lost their little girl in the shootings last week. This morning, I read how the shooter tried to destroy his computer which indicates premeditation. I go back to the debate of whether it was evil or sickness. My thoughts on the gun debate are that the greatest fear is no guns with civilians only with the government. It's not that I'm a conspiracy-theory Republican. It's that the Nazi atrocities are too close to home. My best friend in high school was German, and her father was forced to serve in the German army. I went to a college which was 1/3 Jewish, and many lost aunts and uncles in the Holocaust. I remember their saying that they grew up being warned it could happen in America. It struck me as crazy talk at the time, but human nature does not change. What is allowed in a society is due to the laws and the cultural conversation about human activity.

I am so moved, I am sure, mostly because we have four children and it is not so many years ago they were in first grade. We were reminiscing last night about how, Katie, in kindergarten, was front and center during the Christmas concert. When the kindergarten through third grade kids were singing (about 200 children), she kept lifting up her dress and the teacher kept using her hand to tell her put your dress down! It was a cute little girl dress and she had tights underneath, so probably not many people noticed except us. Kids are so cute at that age. How could it be anything but evil that would result in a child being gunned down?

I turn now to my own struggle with weight. Is it evil? It is sickness? What is it? I just don't think it is sickness. If it is sickness, then there is nothing that can be done about it except some sort of medication or surgery. No, I think it is evil. Evil comes from persistently making bad choices. Have I? Well, yes. For years, I tried the "portion control" approach to dieting. I was certainly of a normal weight, but the cost was enormous. Since then, I've tried many approaches, and No S seems to provide the most normalcy. I can get into a habit with No S.

Why am I still so heavy? I think I was trying to manage to a weight, and that approach doesn't work. I need instead to establish habits and stick to them.

Does anyone deliberately choose evil? I doubt they do at first. Some might. There was a teenager in Minnesota who was a problem since pre-school who shot two people to death and laughed and asked what was the big deal because they were going to die someday anyway. Maybe not everyone can be reached, but I think there is this large number of people in the middle who excuse their own behavior by calling it a sickness.

Have I with my weight? I don't know that I have. What I've been doing is trying to figure out the path out of obesity, knowing "portion control" is a path to a normal weight but not to normalcy. Where am I now? I think I've figured out what works.

Clarity. What I needed was clarity. This diet with my tweak of Exception Days is very very clear. I eat at mealtime and not outside mealtimes except on weekends or Exception Days.

I have this book on medieval eating which says that gluttony was described as eating before the proscribed time. This is wisdom in that. There is wisdom in No S.

Day 4 – Wednesday, December 19, 2012: Last night, I resisted eating after dinner by telling myself it was evil to eat. It was easier to resist.

9:20 PM: I got after Katie for eating constantly. It seems so obvious to me that she is constantly hungry because she is constantly eating so her body needs a break. What have I done to my precious girl? I need to teach her that she is responsible for her eating, but I'm starting with "Kitchen Closed!" after dinner!

Day 5 – Thursday, December 20, 2012: Today I have off to bring Anne home.

Day 6 – Friday, December 21, 2012: Weight does give me an opportunity to consider the interpretation of the No S rules. For example, is egg nog a sweet or not? We only have it just before Christmas, and I had two small cups last night. My weight was up today. I quickly thought about yesterday's eating and thought of the egg nog. Maybe egg nog should be a sweet.

5 PM: The hiring manager was so gracious today in bringing in treats as a send off for me. I was surprised! I think it may have been hard for her to terminate a contractor just before Christmas.

Day 7 – Saturday, December 22, 2012: I didn't have any of those treats yesterday (and no one noticed) but I sure will today! I left cookies for the guards at the front desk but brought home the coffee cake. My weight is much lower today but I also got up at 8.

Day 8 – Sunday, December 23, 2012: I ate like a pig yesterday and today and now I have no desire to continue eating this way. What is it in human nature that so likes to rebel? I do not like that the kids put their feet up on the kneelers in church, so of course what do they do? Do they do it to irritate me? No. I don't think so. They do it because they want to do what they want to do. This is just like me in wanting to rebel by overeating on the weekend, only the process of pigging out week after week is getting a bit tiresome. At some point, I'll stop. I can eat as much as I want -- yeah. It gets old.

Day 9 – Monday, December 24, 2012: I spent the weekend eating everything in sight. Last night, we had my parents over for dinner, and Tom kindly took care of all the cooking so I could spend time with them. They are staying with my brother 5 miles away. Tom put out cookies, and I ate one and then another and then took a third. As I took the third, I wondered to myself why I was eating this. Was it because there would be no more cookies until Christmas? I don't know, but this morning I was happy to have an N Day in front of me.

This type of dieting creates a weekly contrast between N Days and S Days. Maybe I am going into a different stage with this diet, but maximizing what I am eating on an S Day is starting not to be the goal. With dieting, there was always a deficit. "Portion control" is evil, I think, because I always felt like I was starving. Now I certainly cannot complain about that! Now I think I may move to more moderate eating on S Days not because it is a decision I made or because I am using willpower but because it is more pleasurable to me to eat less.

Day 10 – Tuesday, December 25, 2012: Last night, I did not put enough on my plate for Christmas Eve dinner and ended up feeling like I have felt countless times when on a diet: I felt like I was starving. It was Christmas Eve, my family was home, and I withdrew from the family and went to bed. I got up today, it was an S Day, and I ate. Did it really matter that I did not eat last night? Yes. It did. I won't eat as much because I did not eat yesterday.

With a portion control approach to dieting, there is no end in sight for not eating. Relentlessly, day after day until you break, you are eating less than you want. It's a terrible way to live.

Day 11 – Wednesday, December 26, 2012: All this talk about mental health of the Newtown killer is making me think that the word "evil" is not used widely enough. I'm now going to label a "portion control" approach to dieting as "evil", well-meaning but "evil". I've had my turn with "portion control" diets like my self-created Novena Diet and Weight Watchers and even the early versions of carb-limited diets like The Scarsdale Medical Diet. There is a line from the Bible about how "by their fruits you will know them." Look at the fruits of a "portion control" approach to dieting: Most people who follow them regain their weight. While following this approach, they are obsessed. I remember one person I worked with many years ago was on Weight Watchers for the third time losing the same 40 pounds. No. A "portion control" approach to dieting is evil.

Yesterday, I ate a lot. Was that evil? No. Most would say yes. By the fruits of this diet it will be determined if it is evil or not. I think I'm going to lose weight and not be obsessed. I need to be realistic. A 24" waist is not in my future, and that's OK. I will lose weight. I will lose a lot of it. I will not return to age 24 with a 24" waist and that is also OK.

Day 13 – Friday, December 28, 2012: I have just endured a period of time when I have felt ravenous, and I have stuck to the rules. I have allowed myself pop and not defined it as a sweet, but I think I will start the New Year with defining it as a sweet. We usually don't have it in our house, but Tom bought two 12 packs, and I've had several. Other than that, I'm just happy that that feeling of being ravenous is gone.

Day 14 – Saturday, December 29, 2012:
Day 15 – Sunday, December 30, 2012:
Day 16 – Monday, December 31, 2012:
Last edited by Kathleen on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:53 pm, edited 15 times in total.

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:06 am

Kathleen, I don't know if it is your inner perfectionist talking, but it is worrying to read you characterize eating as "evil". This is the time of year when I gather with my family to eat special meals (often with seconds and sweets!), and believe me, there is nothing further from evil.

I know you are trying to motivate yourself, but I wonder if thinking in terms of "evil" will increase feelings of guilt when you do go off plan. We're humans after all, so we do go off plan now and again. What about saying to yourself that snacking after dinner is a bad habit you are breaking, or snacking after dinner is something you don't do anymore, or as you put it "Kitchen Closed!"? I'm not saying don't be strict and "black and white" with yourself (I certainly am), just don't set yourself up for guilt later with a mindset of being "perfect" and failures being "evil". To err is human after all!

Wishing you a peaceful and joyful holiday!

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:50 am

ironchef,
I appreciate your concern. Calling going off plan "evil" means I am making the choice to go off plan. I know I'm bringing in the Newtown killings when I discuss evil, but there is evil in degrees. This is not an equivalent evil to that, but I do think it is evil. What an impact my weight has had on my life! At any rate, if I went off plan, I'd dock an Exception Day. A Friday night party is no time for sticking to a plan, but this Friday night we are home. I should be fine and do plan an Exception Day for Christmas.
Kathleen

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:31 pm

A Friday night party is the exact time to stick to a plan. S days are S days. Exception days are planned. You may have many chances on Friday nights to go off plan. If I eat my dinner on a Friday night and then eat more because it's a party, I deprive myself of the pleasure of moderation, of feeling content when I go to bed, of waking up feeling the right amount of lightness. I can always have beverages. I rarely drink alcohol, but lemon water or a cola can be a party for me now. The party is the people, the environment, etc.

This may be down the line.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

heatherhikes
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:57 pm
Location: uetliberg

Post by heatherhikes » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:33 pm

Exquisite, Oolala, if I may say so :!: Thank you much for your post. I suspect it's wisdom saved me tonight. (Kathleen, I hope you don't mind)

Focusing on and learning to appreciate more the pleasures of moderation - that's my/our goal, I believe.
___________
H

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:03 pm

I restarted with 2 Exception Days on a Friday when I was going to a Christmas party. That just got me off on the wrong foot. It has been surprising to me how little other people care what you are putting in your mouth. Maybe it's from dieting and being focused so much on it for so many years that I thought others would care, but they don't. Parties are about people, not food. I don't mind. I appreciate different perspectives.
Kathleen

User avatar
BrightAngel
Posts: 2093
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: Central California
Contact:

Post by BrightAngel » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:34 pm

"Portion Control is Evil"
I challenge this offensive, incorrect, and illogical statement. Image
Just because we dislike something doesn't mean we get to redefine it.

Since I have read every entry in your journal...many of them more than once...,
I know that for years you've struggled to deny your need for Portion Control,
and that you continually dream, and wish, and pray for some magic
that will keep you from having to use your brain to control your food intake.

Portion Control is simply using the brain that God has given you,
to work toward eating the correct amount of food for the body he has given you.
Portion Control simply means = eating less food.
How Much Less? That depends on WHAT you are choosing to eat.
The goal is to take in the same amount of energy as your body, at it's healthiest, uses.

If we are talking in terms of Good vs. Evil,
Portion Control must be Good,
BECAUSE
it is the opposite of the "evil" behavior: "Gluttony",
which is defined as sinful.
If Gluttony equals bad; then Portion Control equals good.
Therefore, Portion Control is Godly Behavior.

Avoiding obesity requires limiting your food intake...
no matter what method you use to do this will always involve some form of portion control.
The concept of "free will" means that we can choose NOT to use our brain
to help us eat less food,
However, an attempt to redefine "good" as "evil" is Foolishness.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:24 pm

BrightAngel,

I have come to the conclusion that "portion control" is evil after much soul-searching, and you have seen some of the dead ends I went down. One of the definitions of evil, as given in Webster's online dictionary, is "pernicious" or "causing harm." "Pernicious" is defined as "highly injurious or destructive." A example of "pernicious" used in a sentence is this: "More pernicious still has been the acceptance of the author's controversial ideas by the general public."

Gluttony used to mean eating before the time to eat, according to a book on medieval eating that I bought. Webster's online dictionary now says "an excess in eating or drinking." Why, then, would there be a Shrove Tuesday or a Twelve Days of Christmas when people were expected to and encouraged to eat more than they required? I think our society may have changed the meaning of the word, with disasterous results.

Think about this: What if portion control really is a new concept and really is the cause of the obesity epidemic?

Here is a verse from Ecclesiastes 10:16: "Woe to you, O land, when your king is a child and your princes feast in the morning. Happy are you, O land, when your king is the son of free men, and your princes feast at the proper time." Feasting implies overindulgence. The focus is on when a person eats and not on how much that person eats.

I agree that this line of argument does seem like foolishness, but maybe it isn't.

Kathleen

TexArk
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:50 am
Location: Foothills of the Ozarks

Post by TexArk » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:37 pm

I don't want to get into a theological battle with you, but perhaps you and I are not defining "portion control" in the same way. I certainly do not define it as evil. I think of it as self control. In no way is eating 3 meals a day starvation. Not being able to eat all I want of any and everything I want may be a restriction, but it is not evil.

I also have read all your journals for years and it seems to me that you have a strong aversion to applying brakes or building any boundaries of protection. I don't see how eating huge quantities of food without any control every weekend as well as "restart" feedings during the week can be equated to a few Christian feast days a year. What about all the scripture that calls for man to be self controlled?

an example:
Proverbs 25:28 (RSV)
28 A man without self-control
is like a city broken into and left without walls.

This can apply to speech, anger, food, etc.

There are many others. See Galatians. The fruit of the Spirit is ....includes self control.

I didn't have good control over Christmas. I accept this as a special time. However, I now have the city walls rebuilt and hope to use my mind and some restraint and self control.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:16 pm

TexArk,

I've heard somewhere that the way to guarantee to be unhappy is to seek unhappiness. That's somewhat how I think about self control. Moderation is a result of habit, not willpower. I believe that moderation comes from building habits and not from exercise of willpower. Of course, it take willpower to build habit, but then habits become self-perpetuating.

Yes, I still eat a lot on the weekend, BUT I am no longer getting up at midnight to eat Haagen Dazs ice cream bars. Overeating has lost much of its allure, to the point that eating a third cookie on Sunday night resulted in my feeling mildly disgusted.

What I am doing is pursuing a theory, a theory that seeking moderation through "portion control" is counterproductive. The goal is the same as yours: I seek moderation through meal timing and not "portion control."

Kathleen

TexArk
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:50 am
Location: Foothills of the Ozarks

Post by TexArk » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:45 pm

"Of course, it take willpower to build habit, but then habits become self-perpetuating."

I agree that the goal is to build habit and it is going to take willpower to build the habit. I am sure the habit gets easier, but I think you will always have to be vigilant.

"Yes, I still eat a lot on the weekend, BUT I am no longer getting up at midnight to eat Haagen Dazs ice cream bars. Overeating has lost much of its allure, to the point that eating a third cookie on Sunday night resulted in my feeling mildly disgusted."

This is a victory for you.

""What I am doing is pursuing a theory, a theory that seeking moderation through "portion control" is counterproductive. The goal is the same as yours: I seek moderation through meal timing and not "portion control."


If it helps you to call it "meal timing" rather than "portion control," OK. But you are still limiting how much you eat by meal timing and are still having to exercise willpower to keep from eating between meals. Otherwise the habit you want to establish will never arrive.

Your theory will be proven correct when you are able to put day after day together without tweaking or starting over as you build the habit of meal timing. Otherwise I think you are fooling yourself. If you look at your journal, you will see that for each new list of dates for whatever the latest experiment is, you will find a "Last Supper preceding the new diet.

I wish you well and I will keep following you as we begin a new year.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:17 pm

TexArk,

I agree with you about the tweaking. I've concluded that I need a baseline (what never changes) and then maybe I can tweak around the edges. For example, I may decide to classify egg nog as a sweet. That would be a tweak/clarification that would not alter the general idea of meal timing. Weighing myself can give me insight into how I might define sweets, but it's not going to affect my commitment to meal timing.

Maybe I'm just playing with words to distinguish between meal timing and portion control, but I think it's an entirely different approach to weigh management.

To the New Year --

Kathleen

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:30 am

How do you determine how much you eat at a meal or how long a meal is?
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:46 pm

I'm a bit confused. A few posts back, I was concerned that you had defined overeating as "evil", but now it seems you've defined controlling your portions (so, not overeating) as "evil". Is this just semantics or have I missed something?

I don't think society has redefined gluttony. I think that until the recent past most people (except the very rich) would have observed traditional feast days without anything like the excess our society enjoys. A feast day a few hundred years ago probably meant that you killed your last chicken so you didn't have to feed it for the winter, or used up your eggs before Lent, or got to have some clementines or something as a treat.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:48 pm

ironchef,

http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Feast-Food-M ... +and+feast

Those feasts were feasts, especially in the High Middle Ages when there was a lot of wealth. This is from the book Fast and Feast by Bridget Ann Henisch, page 53: "The accounts of Bishop Swinefield's household expenses in 1289/90 show the dramatic swing from the somber austerity of Good Friday to the unbuttoned ease of Easter Sunday. Only bread, wine, and fish appeared in the steward's notes for Good Friday, and of these some of the fish went untouched; on Easter Sunday, a party of eighty munched its way through the following; 1 1/2 carcasses of salt beef, 1 bacon, 1 3/4 carcasses of fresh beef, 2 boars, 5 pigs, 4 1/2 calves, 22 kids, 3 fat deer, 12 capons, 88 pigeons, 1400 eggs, bread, cheese, unlimited beer, and 66 gallons of wine."

Can you imagine defining gluttony as overeating if this is how the bishop's household ate on Easter Sunday? The average number of eggs alone was 17 per person. It must be that more than 80 people were present for that feast!

Having myself experimented with fasting, I found that it leads to an excess of concern with food. The medievals did concern themselves a lot with gluttony.

I took a medieval history course in my senior year of college, and had I taken it earlier, I might have been a history major. It is fascinating to realize that your culture has assumptions that may not be universal. My favorite type of book to read is a first-person autobiography, which is part of the reason why I so loved Frederick Douglass' autobiography. Having skipped a grade in middle school, I never studied the Civil War and never before had exposure to Frederick Douglass.

Kathleen
Last edited by Kathleen on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
BrightAngel
Posts: 2093
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: Central California
Contact:

Post by BrightAngel » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:56 pm

Kathleen wrote:Gluttony used to mean eating before the time to eat,
according to a book on medieval eating that I bought.
Webster's online dictionary now says "an excess in eating or drinking."
Why, then, would there be a Shrove Tuesday or a Twelve Days of Christmas
when people were expected to and encouraged to eat more than they required?
I think our society may have changed the meaning of the word, with disasterous results.

Think about this:
What if portion control really is a new concept
and really is the cause of the obesity epidemic?
Image
The term "Portion Control" is merely a modern term for an ancient concept.
The term is commonly used to indicate "eating less".


..........Question: What is a "portion" of food?
..........Answer: It is an amount of food.

..........Question: What is "control"?
..........Answer: It is to exercise restraint or direction over, to command,
.........................to hold in check, to regulate, to curb.

I, personally, choose not to think of eating in terms of “good†and “evilâ€.
However, in support of my above-post, it is easy to see
that the definition of Gluttony has been fairly consistent for thousands of years.

Regarding the past definition of “Gluttonyâ€, even a brief review of the Bible
makes it clear that in ancient, biblical times, “gluttony†meant overeating to excess,
and a “glutton†was often equated with a “drunkard …
which shows that they were considered to be similar behaviors.

The English word, "Gluttony", was derived from the Latin gluttire meaning to gulp down or swallow,
It means over-indulgence and over-consumption of food, drink, or wealth items
to the point of extravagance or waste.

In some Christian denominations, Gluttony is considered one of the seven deadly sins
and it is specifically defined as - a misplaced desire of food…
... eating more than needed, eating more than one’s share.

The word "Greed" is defined as a selfish and excessive desire
for more of something (like food or money) than is needed,
A "Glutton" is "Greedy", and both of these words are often used to define similar behavior.

Deuteronomy 21:20 says:

â€And they shall say unto the elders of his city,
This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice;
he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
â€

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns,
“Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat,
for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags
.â€

Proverbs 28:7 declares,
“He who keeps the law is a discerning son,
but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father.
â€

Proverbs 23:2 proclaims,
“Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.â€

Biblical Scripture tells Christian believers
that they are not to let their appetites control them,
but they are to have control over their appetites.

(See Deuteronomy 21:20, Proverbs 23:2, 2 Peter 1:5-7,
2 Timothy 3:1-9, and 2 Corinthians 10:5.)


The ability to say “no†to anything in excess—self-control—
- is one of the fruits of the Spirit common to all believers

(Galatians 5:22).

Image
It seems clear that IF one chooses to think of eating in terms of “good†and “evilâ€,
that eating less = i.e. portion control is “goodâ€, and overeating is “evilâ€.


The establishment of various historical customs which appear to encourage overeating, don't change the definition of Gluttony.Image
The Origins of Shrove Tuesday
Shrove Tuesday originated during the Middle Ages. As in contemporary times, food items like meats, fats, eggs, milk, and fish were regarded as restricted during Lent. To keep such food from being wasted, many families would have big feasts on Shrove Tuesday in order to consume those items that would inevitably become spoiled during the next forty days. The English tradition of eating pancakes on Shrove Tuesday came about as a way to use as much milk, fats, and eggs as possible before Ash Wednesday began. In France, the consumption of all fats and fatty foods on this day coined the name "Fat Tuesday" or Mardi Gras.
The origin of the Twelve Days of Christmas is complicated,
which is related to differences in church traditions, and different cultures observe this tradition in a variety of ways. By the 16th century, European and Scandinavian cultures had combined the Twelve Days of Christmas with (sometimes pagan) festivals celebrating the changing of the year. These were usually associated with driving away evil spirits for the start of the new year. Over the centuries, differing Christian denominations have had different customs involving the Twelve Days of Christmas, which are currently celebrated in widely differing ways.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:27 pm

BrightAngel,
I do spout on, don't I? It might be helpful for me to go through a Biblical concordance. I am thinking that meal timing leads to moderate eating. We are in agreement that moderate eating is the goal. I just think portion control is a counterproductive and evil (as in pernicious) way to achieve that goal.
Kathleen

User avatar
BrightAngel
Posts: 2093
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: Central California
Contact:

Post by BrightAngel » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:19 pm

Kathleen wrote:BrightAngel,
I am thinking that meal timing leads to moderate eating.
We are in agreement that moderate eating is the goal.
Kathleen,
One of the most important considerations in the No S Diet
is to eat only moderate amounts, three times a day.
To be moderate is to avoid excess, which requires eating less.
The modern term commonly used for "eating less" is "portion control".

For young, active men like Reinhard, limiting food to one plate each meal is portion control enough.
Many older, sedentary females, have to further limit the amounts
and/or kinds of food which is contained on that one plate per meal.

Meal timing, with an avoidance of snacking is a helpful tool,
and a good way to start building a No S habit,
but stuffing your body at each meal will not result in weight-loss, maintenance, OR moderation.
Sumo wrestlers ... weighing between 400 and 600 lb ....,
eat only two, carefully timed meals each day.
However, they stuff themselves full at each meal.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:49 pm

BrightAngel,
It's quite possible -- actually quite probable -- that you are right. I will try this approach for a full year and see what results. If I am down 20 pounds before January 1, 2014, I'll continue the approach. If not, I'll accept that "portion control" is necessary.

The Blessings of Simplicity: December 28, 2012

The No S Diet:
Many different modifications over almost four years, especially one which allowed everything in front of me at one meal instead of one plateful at one meal.
(Month 1) Day 1 - Monday, September 8, 2008: 215.0

The Sustainable Diet:
Unrestricted eating every Saturday and Sunday. No snacks, sweets, or seconds on weekdays. At meals, I can have everything that is in front of me even it if does not fit on one plate. There is a rolling average of 2 Exception Days per month which are weekdays when I have unrestricted eating. I can take Exception Days for any reason I want and do not need to plan ahead to take an Exception Day.

Three Keys:
Key #1: No "portion control" ever.
Key #2: Habits that are followed with perfection.
Key #3: A strict accounting of "on" days (when rules are followed) and "off" days (when there are no rules).


Weight Summary
(Month 1) Day 1 - Friday, December 28, 2012: 215.0

Weight:
Day 1 – Friday, December 28, 2012:
Day 2 – Saturday, December 29, 2012:
Day 3 – Sunday, December 30, 2012:
Day 4 – Monday, December 31, 2012:
Day 5 – Tuesday, January 1, 2013:
Day 6 – Wednesday, January 2, 2013:
Day 7 – Thursday, January 3, 2013:
Day 8 – Friday, January 4, 2013:
Day 9 – Saturday, January 5, 2013:
Day 10 – Sunday, January 6, 2013:
Day 11 – Monday, January 7, 2013:
Day 12 – Tuesday, January 8, 2013:
Day – Wednesday, January 9, 2013:
Day – Thursday, January 10, 2013:
Day – Friday, January 11, 2013:
Day – Saturday, January 12, 2013:
Day – Sunday, January 13, 2013:
Day – Monday, January 14, 2013:
Day – Tuesday, January 15, 2013:
Day – Wednesday, January 16, 2013:
Day – Thursday, January 17, 2013:
Day – Friday, January 18, 2013:
Day – Saturday, January 19, 2013:
Day – Sunday, January 20, 2013:
Day – Monday, January 21, 2013:
Day – Tuesday, January 22, 2013:
Day – Wednesday, January 23, 2013:
Day – Thursday, January 24, 2013:
Day – Friday, January 25, 2013:
Day – Saturday, January 26, 2013:
Day – Sunday, January 27, 2013:
Day – Monday, January 28, 2013:
Day – Tuesday, January 29, 2013:
Day – Wednesday, January 30, 2013:
Day – Thursday, January 31, 2013:

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:55 pm

I'm still trying to understand what "everything in front of me" means. If the serving dish is in front of you, do you get to eat what's in it? And who puts the food on your plate, you or someone else? Whether you want to admit it or not, you are controlling your portions every time you eat. No S depends on a person's being willing to be relatively rational and, remember, moderate. An irrational person could easily eat an immoderate amount of food at three meals a day.

Of course, you are entitled to your interpretations, but remember that they are often very much a matter of perspective, and malleable.

On the other hand, I don't want to discount your willingness to be committed. Eating what's in front of you three times a day for a year is a big improvement in SIMPLICITY, and for that, I acknowledge you, and I look forward to congratulating you at quarterly intervals for keeping it up in 2013.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:36 am

Yes, if the serving dish is in front of me, I get to eat what is in it. There are forces operating with this approach that are the same forces operating with the one plateful approach of Reinhard: shame and guilt, shame from your husband and children opening their eyes wide to see what you are eating and guilt from seeing for yourself just how much you eat. That doesn't mean I limit what I eat. That means I see what I am eating and cannot deceive myself into thinking I have a slow metabolism.
Kathleen

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:13 pm

Reinhard has a great series of podcasts about tweaking / mods, I found them really helpful and I would highly recommend listening to them when deciding if / how to modify. One thing that jumps out at me is that Reinhard recommends a month as a good timeframe to commit to a modification, and then evaluate whether it has helped or hindered.
Kathleen wrote:I will try this approach for a full year and see what results.
I really hate to be a killjoy, and I love a good "new year's resolution", but I think a year is too long, both in terms of evaluating a mod and because I think you are unlikely to stick with it that long. For myself, a year is a daunting amount of time, whereas a month seems doable. Perhaps think about whether a year is the right "granularity", to quote Reinhard?

nosnos
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:22 pm
Contact:

Post by nosnos » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:25 am

Hi Iron chef, I disagree. A huge part of Kathleens problem is over-tweaking the rules. I think keeping it nice and simple for a whole year would do her a world of good and would restult in eating less- therefore weightloss. I would say that sticking to the 3 plate rule would speed up weightloss and thus make compliance.much easier... Just my 2p here!
Happy New Year Kathleen- let this be your year!

User avatar
BrightAngel
Posts: 2093
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: Central California
Contact:

Post by BrightAngel » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:30 pm

nosnos wrote:A huge part of Kathleens problem is over-tweaking the rules.
I would say that sticking to the 3 plate rule would speed up weightloss
and thus make compliance.much easier.
Happy New Year Kathleen- let this be your year!
:wink: I agree.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:18 pm

nosnos wrote:Hi Iron chef, I disagree. A huge part of Kathleens problem is over-tweaking the rules. I think keeping it nice and simple for a whole year would do her a world of good and would restult in eating less- therefore weightloss.
I agree in part, as I think a year of Vanilla would have been wonderful. However, I saw that it was a year of Vanilla in August, then a year of "no weighing and no fails" in mid Dec, then a new commitment to a year of no one plate rule (?) in late Dec. This lead me to wonder if all these year long ideas (which are not stuck with) were counterproductive or unlikely to happen.

I still think the podcasts on mods are worth a listen, in large part because they discourage mods that aren't needed. That is, if you follow Vanilla, enjoy it and lose weight, no need to change anything.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:45 pm

The Blessings of Simplicity: January 2, 2013

The No S Diet:
Many different modifications over more than four years, especially one which allowed everything in front of me at one meal instead of one plateful at one meal.
(Month 1) Day 1 - Monday, September 8, 2008: 215.0

The Sustainable Diet:
Unrestricted eating every Saturday and Sunday. No snacks, sweets, or seconds on weekdays. At meals, I can have everything that is in front of me even it if does not fit on one plate. There is a rolling average of 2 Exception Days per month which are weekdays when I have unrestricted eating. I can take Exception Days for any reason I want and do not need to plan ahead to take an Exception Day.

Three Keys:
Key #1: No "portion control" ever.
Key #2: Habits that are followed with perfection.
Key #3: A strict accounting of "on" days (when rules are followed) and "off" days (when there are no rules).


Weight Summary
(Month 1) Day 1 - Wednesday, January 2: 215.4

Weight:
Day 1 – Wednesday, January 2, 2013: 215.4
Day 2 – Thursday, January 3, 2013:
Day 3 – Friday, January 4, 2013:
Day 4 – Saturday, January 5, 2013:
Day 5 – Sunday, January 6, 2013:
Day 6 – Monday, January 7, 2013:
Day 7 – Tuesday, January 8, 2013:
Day – Wednesday, January 9, 2013:
Day – Thursday, January 10, 2013:
Day – Friday, January 11, 2013:
Day – Saturday, January 12, 2013:
Day – Sunday, January 13, 2013:
Day – Monday, January 14, 2013:
Day – Tuesday, January 15, 2013:
Day – Wednesday, January 16, 2013:
Day – Thursday, January 17, 2013:
Day – Friday, January 18, 2013:
Day – Saturday, January 19, 2013:
Day – Sunday, January 20, 2013:
Day – Monday, January 21, 2013:
Day – Tuesday, January 22, 2013:
Day – Wednesday, January 23, 2013:
Day – Thursday, January 24, 2013:
Day – Friday, January 25, 2013:
Day – Saturday, January 26, 2013:
Day – Sunday, January 27, 2013:
Day – Monday, January 28, 2013:
Day – Tuesday, January 29, 2013:
Day – Wednesday, January 30, 2013:
Day – Thursday, January 31, 2013:

Day 1 – Wednesday, January 2, 2013: 215.4 I am back, having decided to write down everything I eat and then to follow The Novena Diet and now to accept that my best approach is this diet with my two Exception Days per month tweak and a focus on exercise. Thanks for the encouragement, BrightAngel. I feel foolish.

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:20 am

I gently and seriously suggest you forget the Novena Diet, and perform a real novena to ask either for the strength to implement Vanilla No S for three months or for the compulsion to overeat to be lifted from you. Even those who ask for and get the compulsion lifted still often follow a plan.

Pray for strength or grace.
God bless you.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:43 pm

oolala53,
I agree with you. Today I weighed 215.6. I'm going to take a break and pray.
Kathleen

milliem
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:30 pm

Post by milliem » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:28 pm

You know the 'key' that worries me the most?

Key #2: Habits that are followed with perfection.

It seems every time you don't follow this key (which lets face it is quite often, as absolutely naturally you make mistakes and aren't perfect - who is?!! You're human!) you are tempted to change, modify or adapt your plan. Perhaps find a way of motivating yourself to follow the habits without the all or nothing thinking? New habits are something you work towards and build up over time, not something you can be perfect at immediately. I hope you find a way to move past this.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:07 pm

milleum,
That is the problem. I agree with you 100%. I came up with an idea of 2 Exception Days per month which really is a way to not be perfect twice in a month, but the weight loss was too slow. Now fatter and wiser, I think I'll return to that approach.
Kathleen

The Blessings of Simplicity: January 16, 2013

The No S Diet:
Many different modifications over more than four years, especially one which allowed everything in front of me at one meal instead of one plateful at one meal.
(Month 1) Day 1 - Monday, September 8, 2008: 215.0

The Sustainable Diet:
Unrestricted eating every Saturday and Sunday. No snacks, sweets, or seconds on weekdays. At meals, I can have everything that is in front of me even it if does not fit on one plate. There is a rolling average of 2 Exception Days per month which are weekdays when I have unrestricted eating. I can take Exception Days for any reason I want and do not need to plan ahead to take an Exception Day.

Three Keys:
Key #1: No "portion control" ever.
Key #2: Habits that are followed with perfection.
Key #3: A strict accounting of "on" days (when rules are followed) and "off" days (when there are no rules).


Weight Summary
(Month 1) Day 1 - Wednesday, January 16, 2013: 219.0

Weight:

Day 1 – Friday, January 11, 2013: 218.0 2 Exception Days left
Day 2 – Saturday, January 12, 2013:
Day 3 – Sunday, January 13, 2013:
Day 4 – Monday, January 14, 2013: 1 Exception Day left
Day 5 – Tuesday, January 15, 2013:


Day 1 – Wednesday, January 16, 2013: 219.0
Day 2 – Thursday, January 17, 2013:
Day 3 – Friday, January 18, 2013:
Day 4 – Saturday, January 19, 2013:
Day 5 – Sunday, January 20, 2013:
Day 6 – Monday, January 21, 2013:
Day 7 – Tuesday, January 22, 2013:
Day 8 – Wednesday, January 23, 2013:
Day 9 – Thursday, January 24, 2013:
Day 10 – Friday, January 25, 2013:
Day 11 – Saturday, January 26, 2013:
Day 12 – Sunday, January 27, 2013:
Day 13 – Monday, January 28, 2013:
Day 14 – Tuesday, January 29, 2013:
Day 15 – Wednesday, January 30, 2013:
Day 16 – Thursday, January 31, 2013:

Journal:
Day 4 – Monday, January 14, 2013: I decided last week just to write down what I eat during the week and let that habit remove the unconscious eating. Last night, when I sat down to write down what I ate, I could not remember much of it and realized that unstructured eating was going to propel me to a much higher weight very quickly. I was wearing a ring that is now too small to wear. I no longer can wear my one pair of jeans that I could squeeze into. I decided just to start at my weight from Saturday, take an Exception Day for yesterday, and return to what I did for almost a year: follow the No S Diet with the changes noted above. I did not weigh myself because I did not want to go into shock about what could be the result of three days of heavy eating after weighing in at 218 pounds. Today is a new day. Am I cured of tweaking? I sure hope so!


Day 1 – Wednesday, January 16, 2013: After four consecutive days of heavy eating, I realized that the Intuitive Eating book was right about the idea of "diet backlash". Dieting is not temporary. Any rules you put in place need to be for the rest of your life because when you stop the diet you revert. That's what happened to me. I decided to give myself a fighting chance by restarting, this time with 2 Exception Days and a commitment to weigh myself. Why weigh myself? It keeps me from self-deception.

Day 5 – Sunday, January 20, 2013: I am not committed to this. I am going to step back for a time and try something else. I'll be back to give a report but it might be a month or two before I am back.
Last edited by Kathleen on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nosnos
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:22 pm
Contact:

Post by nosnos » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:49 pm

Kathleen I disagree. You weren't backlashing with No S (which is a set of diet rules)- When you stuck to it. You were losing weight, feeling content. Contentment soon turned to boredom and boredom lead to tweaking. Tweaking lead to overeating and BOOM you wake up heavier then you have been in months.
Get back to vanilla, do moderate regular exercise and enjoy your life in the mean time... How can that NOT lead to weight loss?!
Good luck this time!
X Nosnos

TexArk
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:50 am
Location: Foothills of the Ozarks

Post by TexArk » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:32 pm

Bright Angel has used this quote in the past and it is so true.

Losing weight is hard,

Maintaining weight is hard,

Staying fat is hard;

CHOOSE YOUR HARD.


I had to face up to the fact that I was going to be hungry at whatever weight I was; I was going to desire to eat more than I should no matter my weight. Either I learned to say NO to myself or my weight was going to go up and up. It will not stabilize on its own. And learning to say NO means there will be failures... lots of them. There is no learning without failures. And...There is no instant cure. If we have been fooling ourselves that we have to eat, and we cannot stand waiting until the next meal, then it is going to take lots of practice telling our inner child NO. I am sorry but waiting for the next meal is not the same as having your head held under water. We must also accept what we tell our children, "Life is not fair!" I may have to work harder at weight control than someone else, but I also have skills and talents that others might envy.

Yes, waiting to eat is HARD, but it is not like I am fighting cancer!

You can do this. As everyone keeps telling you...just keep on keeping on and quit looking for an answer. You already have the answer. Just do it. Eat your three plates a day and live life in between.

Edited to add: The process actually does get easier after you have stayed with it for the long haul. And I have learned as you have mentioned before that the feeling of "lightness" and hunger at meal times is a good thing that we desire. And...I know there are many sides to the weigh or not to weigh argument. I, like you, have found that daily weigh ins keep me honest. I am totally aware that the scale can go up and down without explanation depending on many factors. BUT if I do not weigh daily, I KNOW the weight will gradually increase and when I do face up to it, the number is not good! Sometimes I use the Hacker's Diet website to enter daily weight on the spreadsheet that automatically calculates the trend. That takes care of the normal ups and downs.

nosnos
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:22 pm
Contact:

How's it going kathleen?

Post by nosnos » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:24 am

It's been radio silence for a while now- are you OK? Sending you my best wishes.
X nosnos

heatherhikes
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:57 pm
Location: uetliberg

Post by heatherhikes » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:04 pm

Kathleen,
I've been reading your posts for some time now and would like to *gently* point out something that I've noticed.
You have been on various diets, so have I, but, although you are now on the NoS plan it seems you still like to "mix and match," also still bringing philosophies from other diets into the NoS way of eating. For example, you sometimes mention principles from the Intuitive Eating diet...I believe this can be very counterproductive and confusing to our diethead thinking, as it is.
I know myself, I need straight forward principles that do not change from week to week, month to month; only this way can the deeply entrenched diet conditioning and thoughts be healed.
Having been on many, many diets since I was 18 (I'm now 60), I made up my mind that I would put away all my old diet books, as smart/helpful as they seem to be, not buy any more new ones, and concentrate on pure Vanilla NoS.
One can do so much with the structure/template of NoS (as I see it); but first establishing the habit...and exercising regularly. I, also, have a lot of weight to lose.
I believe, when we mix other diets and their philosophies with NoS, we water down and so weaken the effects of NoS, and are in danger of accomplishing nothing. I don't mean to be harsh, that's just what I've experienced with myself, especially during the habit-forming stage.
Concerning eating, the books I read/re-read and study through are NoS, Diet Alternative by Diane Hampton (similar to Nos; with God's power), FaithfullyFit (devotional for dieters), and another devotional.
By the way, I don't consider the Diet Alternative another diet. I don't fast, per se, but like the author's Biblical standpoint on not eating between meals, etc.

Knowing that you are a person who attends a Christian church I thought you wouldn't be offended if I mention Christian books, ect.
I hope the above doesn't come across critical; it wasn't meant that way :wink:

After all the diets I've done during my 40+ year diet career, I am convinced that NoS is a stroke of genius; the simplest is often the best.
Wishing you a great weekend
____________
Love and peace
H.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:02 pm

I am OK. I don't feel right posting here when I am questioning the efficacy of this diet. What I've done is return to a diet book that is now out of print. I had thrown out the book so I had to get a copy off Amazon. It is called The 7 Secrets of Slim People, and it is basically training for intuitive eating.

Why would I return to it when it failed previously? Well, I think I learned a lot from No S. I learned that you can change your approach to eating by establishing habits. That was certainly the case with me. This diet taught me to eat at mealtimes instead of whenever I was allowed, which -- in the case of Intuitive Eating -- was literally all the time.

Where am I today? Well, I'm trying to follow the program in this 7 Secrets book. You start off recording what you eat, when, what your body is telling you, and what your mind is telling you. The idea behind this is to try to distinguish between internal physical signals to eat and all others. Surprisingly to me, though it should not have been, is that my mind was telling me, "Eat. It is mealtime" (the result of following No S) as well as "I'm free! I can eat anything!" (the result of dropping No S and also the result of Intuitive Eating.) My weight got to 222.2, a PR (personal record) and now at 221.2.

Today I start the training. I am to do several things when I eat and record whether or not I'm doing them: sit down, eat without distractions, put my fork down while I'm eating, eat without judgement, and eat in front of others.

I am the mother of three teenagers. In another year, I'll be the mother of four teenagers. What I am starting to think is that dieting is a lot like parenting teens. You cannot tell them what to do. You cannot give them rules that they must follow. Instead, you can advise them, you can guide them, you can tell them they are in charge, and you can tell them, "I cannot force you to do anything." All I can do as a parent is change my own behavior.

This may sound like giving up on my children, but I am not giving them caret blanche to do what they want. As an example, my son is 16 1/2 and all his friends are driving. He wanted to be able to drive to school this year, and I told him I'd be willing to have him drive if he had a driver's license but I wouldn't let him drive unless he proved to me he was a decent driver. He complained about that: it was not specific. Fine, I told him he needed to drive 200 segments (an example of a segment being to drive to church, approximately 3 miles). To also help him with his planning skills, I told him he needed to write down the segments and have me sign off on them.

He is up to 85 segments. I let him drive when we are going somewhere, but he has to ask. He has to show some initiative. He did complain to my brother about these silly rules keeping him from having a driver's license, but I told him it's up to him. He did finally put the notebook in the car so he could more easily remember to have me sign off.

I have here clearly deliniated my responsibilities vs. his. He is responsible for asking to drive when we are going somewhere, for writing down the segment, and for having me sign off. I am responsible for letting him apply for a license once he is done.

Personally, I think the problem with dieting is that there is not a clear delination between what the body should be controlling and what the mind should be controlling. The mind needs to be in control of eating but also be respectful of the body, like a mother making sure a son is ready to drive. I am treating my body like a separate human being here.

So what is my responsibility as mother (mind)? My responsibility is to figure out how to have my body eat sufficiently well enough to be satisfied and not worry about weight. My responsibility as mother is to be respectful of the child (body) while setting up guidelines that promote good behavior.

The analogy here doesn't work terribly well, but that's how I'm looking at it. With No S, there was some success in guiding my body. Usually eating at mealtimes led to a more normalized eating pattern and better eating. It, however, had some problems. When the guidelines were lifted on S Days, all h*ll broke loose. Also, I did stay on this diet for nine months with no additional weight loss.

I do think portion control is evil. I think it is controlling the body in a way that is disrespectful. I think it leads to rebellious behavior. Trust me. I know about rebellious behavior. I know about kids who want to understand if they are in charge or not. A perfect example is Katie and confirmation. She quit. She had reasons to quit. I sent a long email to the principal about what happened, and he got another teacher involved to address the problem. Katie got to decide whether or not to be confirmed. I told her that is a personal decision not to be taken lightly. Another mother from Ellie's grade told me her husband told her that their daughter must be confirmed, and I told her my story about Katie.

So -- here I am, floundering but thinking No S promotes some bad behavior (eat whatever you want at mealtime!) without sufficient respect to the body. I don't think I should post here.

Reinhard's program calmed me down. It got me off the 10 pound per year weight gain. It got me to realize that long term changes in behavior are possible through the decision to have a habit. I'm moving on, however. It's possible I could post an update here on occasion, but I don't want to detract from the focus on this diet. Reinhard has, to his credit, provided a terrific forum for the discussion of a very difficult problem, and he has been open to people coming and posting their non No S diets. He clearly cares about the people here and not just about his diet. That's why I'm leaving. I could go elsewhere but right now just want to focus on building some good eating habits.

Kathleen

User avatar
BrightAngel
Posts: 2093
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: Central California
Contact:

Post by BrightAngel » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:27 pm

Kathleen wrote: With No S, there was some success in guiding my body.
Usually eating at mealtimes led to a more normalized eating pattern and better eating.
It, however, had some problems.
When the guidelines were lifted on S Days, all h*ll broke loose.
Also, I did stay on this diet for nine months with no additional weight loss.
No S is a plan of moderation,
and provides some general guildeines, that WHEN FOLLOWED,
can lead to moderate eating.
However, the goal of Moderate Eating must apply - at LEAST - on N Days,
before it will filter over onto S Days.

I cannot resist pointing out that anyone who has read your journal
can see that since 2008, you have only had at most a two-week record
of actually working toward moderate eating on N days
as defined by the No S's No-Seconds-moderate-amount-one-plate rule.

Your denial of the need of SOME type of consistent portion control, with
your own rule of allowing yourself to eat everything in front of you at mealtime -
and putting immense amounts of whatever you like on your table
is one practice that has greatly interfered with the principles of N day moderation.


Your journal shows that the past few years, you have spent far more time
failing at Intuitive Eating, than you have at trying to work at No S.
In fact, your journal indicates that your continual returns to the wishful thinking of Intitive Eating
is actually what has brought you to your current record high weight.

It is difficult to resist the magical lure of Intutive Eating,
with the idea that an obese person can eat whatever they want, whenever they want.
However, the idea that an obese body will tell one to eat only the amount
that a body of normal size needs is a pipedream,
which goes against all available scientific research.
as well as all of your past several years of previous personal experience.

However, IF ACTUALLY FOLLOWED, Intuitive Eating can stop your current weight from climbing higher,
and IF you can come to Acceptance of your body's current size, and Embrace it,
Intuitive Eating might help you achieve peace with food.
Since you seem unable to break free of your desire to follow Intuitive Eating,
you might find it helpful to read a recent PRO-Intuitive Eating book,
"Health at Every Size" by Linda Bacon to learn more about current
science and how it applies to IE.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

jasper
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:33 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by jasper » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:02 am

brightangel and heddi have pointed out some truths, with wisdom and kindness.
Kathleen, I wish you peace

jasper
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:33 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by jasper » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:03 am

and it's lack of portion control that has got us all into this fix in the first place

heatherhikes
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:57 pm
Location: uetliberg

Post by heatherhikes » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:54 am

Kathleen,
I don't know when you read this, but would like to ask you:
Why do you think portion control is evil? I am quite interested to find out how you came to this conclusion, whether it's from
a Christian viewpoint or any other...This info would help me personally, maybe others.
Send me a personal message, if you like. THANK YOU for taking the time, I know you're busy.
Wishing you peace and much success :!: :!:

PS: I'm guessing...many here have gained some weight during the holidays. It's like a *temporary blimp in the scenery* that will even itself out again. I know, personally, I'll do better Dec13, NoS habits much more ingrained. I hope this temporary blimp hasn't distorted your vision of NoS' effectiveness - slightly. Just a thought...
___________
H

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:22 pm

Why have I concluded that "portion control" is evil? The Catholic Church calls Satan "the Father of Lies." Deception and the appearance of good is what defines evil. What is the deception and what is the appearance of good in "portion control"?
- Deception: The deception is that "portion control" works. In nearly all cases, the law "every action has an equal and opposite action". The opposite of "portion control" is "binge". There is nothing pleasurable about a binge. It almost seems like the body's desperate attempt to stay alive.
- Appearance of good: It appears to be good to lose weight, but is it? I know someone who lost weight by running and now has an irregular heartbeat (afib). Most people who lose weight regain it and then some.
Look at "portion control". What happens when a person practices it? A person becomes obsessed with food in order to control portions and, in nearly all cases, eventually "fails" with a binge. Those who do manage to control portions for life feel like they are starving all the time.
Kathleen

heatherhikes
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:57 pm
Location: uetliberg

Post by heatherhikes » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:58 pm

Thank you, Kathleen, for answering so quickly.
I appreciate that you took the time to explain, although I fervently disagree.
Believing that neither of us wants to start a theological discussion on this forum I just leave it at that.

One thing I know, though, as someone thinks or believes (evil/good) in his heart/mind so it will eventually become/materialize in that person's life - good or bad, at least the tendency is there, depending on other things. That's right out of the Bible.
(I've been involved in Christian Ministry)
By the way, I have the book you mentioned; I also participated in Thin Within and WeighDown Workshop.

I wish you all the best and great peace of mind :!: :!:
______________
H.

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:33 am

You do realize that Intuitive Eating does recommend portion control, in the sense that it is recommended that you stop eating before you're full. And you are supposed to wait until you get to a certain level of hunger before eating. There is not eating everything on your plate just because it's there, or eating just because you feel a twinge of hunger.

Here is a link to the intuitive eating forum. I think you're going to need more expert practitioners to guide you, if you're open to it.

http://intuitiveeatingcommunity.org/mai ... rg%2Fforum
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:14 am

oolala53,
I signed up and realized quickly I don't belong there either. You saved me a lot of grief. I forgot the problems of IE - rating hunger and sticking by not eating even though you are at a nephew's graduation luncheon or other social gathering. It was absurd. My life became focused on my stomach and I had as much awareness of my hunger as I have of reading tea leaves.

What do I believe in? I'm not sure. I think The 7 Secrets of Slim People, a book that went out of print years ago, has suggestions for habits. I like that idea. Here are the ones I'd like to follow:
S: Sit down to eat.
E: Eat without distraction
C: Chew each bite ten times
T: Take hand or utensil away from food while eating.

These are habits to be developed and maintained with the regularity of brushing my teeth or my hair. The answer, I believe, is in habits that are followed with eating.

I'll give an occasional update here, but I don't belong on the IE Website either.

Kathleen

The Blessings of Simplicity: January 30, 2013


Weight Summary
(Month 1) Day 1 - Wednesday, January 30, 2013: 222.0

Weight for month
Day 3 - Friday, February 1, 2013: 218.2
Day 4 – Saturday, February 2, 2013:
Day 5 – Sunday, February 3, 2013: 219.0



Journal:
Day 1 - Tuesday, January 29, 2013: 220.8
Day 1 – Wednesday, January 30, 2013: My weight went up, but I don't think it will today. I tried this diet back in February, 2007 when I was 200 pounds. It lasted a couple of weeks and I did not stick to it even during those two weeks. There was something which was positive yesterday. I actually tasted my food -- twice. All those diet books that talk about savoring your food are actually talking about the consequence of good eating habits. I mixed up cause and effect. The cause of savoring your food is having good eating habits. I remember once, a long time ago, Katie saying as we passed a McDonald's, "People who eat at McDonald's are fat, but people who eat McDonald's in the car are really fat." As for my view that portion control is evil, I saw a picture of the swim team yesterday online. The coach lost a ton of weight on Weight Watchers last year. This year, it is all back and then some.

Should I be posting here? Maybe. Maybe not. I have to judge for myself if Reinhard has set up a board to promote his book or have people help each other. He's encouraged people to stay on even if they combine No S with another diet. Reinhard, this is my call out to you. I'll stay on unless you tell me it is inappropriate for me to do so.

2:07 PM: There is a famous story of Helen Keller finally understanding that the teacher was conveying the word for water while running water over her hand. Is this what happens when the body finally figures out it will not be starved? I only hope so. I only hope there is a sudden switch.

5:33 PM: I realized that this only works if you do not control portion size. Do I understand this? Not really. I don't enjoy food. I wolf it down. Why? The scale tomorrow morning could convince me to do something else. I'm checking back in once per month. March 1.

6:04 PM: Start. I don't need to eat just because it is mealtime. Food is tasty only if you need food. I rarely have any hunger whatsoever. Sad. Very sad. I am obese and don't even enjoy food. I eat as a reaction to dieting. It's time to be done with dieting. Portion control is evil.

Day 3 - Friday, February 1, 2013: 218.2 Following those eating habits made a difference in how much I ate, but I also did not feel all that great, in part because I have a job possibility and having a phone screening interview this morning. Time will tell if I can lose weight doing this.

Day 4 – Saturday, February 2, 2013: The premise of the book is that you need to trust your body to tell you what to eat, not rely on rules that you or someone else creates. Those habits listed above help me to tune in to my body's needs. Yesterday, however, I realized I was eating simply to take a break, so following those eating habits is not enough. I need to be aware of what I am doing and why. To help me in taking care of my physical self, I am working on exercising and looking better. I got makeup. I am getting my hair cut. If I get this job, I'll have to buy some clothes, which is great because it is winter clearance time. There is an overarching theme of self respect to this diet.

Day 5 – Sunday, February 3, 2013: 219.0 This diet is teaching me humility. I'm not in control of everything, just like I'm not in control of my children's choices. There is a healthy dose of respect as well, respect for the body I did not create. I have free will, it is true, but my body follows the laws of physics which I didn't create. My father preaches, "You cannot deny the second law of thermodynamics" regarding my weight problem, which essentially means "calories count" in this context. I'm looking at a deeper problem. I also cannot overcome my body's drive to avoid starvation, and portion control triggers some sort of internal drive to eat when there is an external restriction on food. Sure, both perspectives are important. It's like the climate change debate: is it caused by man or not? Well, certainly, all the industry of man has an effect of some sort, but what about the sun? The sun is a variable star: it, too, changes. With climate change, man's impact on the planet may be a factor, but the really scary factor is the sun which is outside man's control. With weight management, a personal commitment to control calorie intake will have an impact, but there is this greater issue of being able to continue and that requires -- what? -- what does it require? -- respect for your body. This book is about a humble respect for my own body which was created by God and not by me.

11:30 AM: I haven't eaten yet today because I haven't been hungry but we are leaving at 12:30 to go to Katie's Confirmation Mass, and I won't be able to eat until about 5 or 6 PM after we leave at 12:30. I debated about eating but realized that my fear of hunger was what was driving my desire to eat. I think that it is OK not to eat and to reassure myself that hunger is not sudden. I've realized over the years that true hunger comes and goes. If I ate now, cereal would taste like cardboard. Why eat? I eat to prevent hunger and need to break myself of that habit. There is no time like the present!

7:30 PM: I had nothing except black coffee until 5 PM and then we had dinner out. I wasn't even hungry then! It was very odd to realize that I am very far from hunger because I'm always eating in anticipation of hunger. I ate most of the meal plus some bread and wine. Right now, I feel close to stuffed but not absolutely stuffed. It seems to me that all those rules about placing your fork down while chewing are actually means to an end and the end is to pay attention to how your body feels.

Day 6 – Monday, February 4, 2013: I thought of another analogy for portion control: Huck Finn. Huck "stole" Jim (helped him to escape slavery) and for that he decided he was condemned to h*ll for doing what was wrong. Is it possible that our societal view of "portion control" is every bit as wrong as the view that some men are destined by God to be slaves?

At any rate, I was excited to see my weight this morning, and it was above 221. I don't remember the exact amount. How could this be? Well, I got up at my normal time of about 5:30 but this weekend was busy and I got up at 8 or 9 on both days. Maybe that was an impact. I am exercising so maybe I'm building muscle. Who knows? I was reading that book at about 5 this morning and decided to just go through the simple exercises week by week (7 weeks for 7 habits) and then see where I am. 'll take Sundays off. There's something about a day of rest (and S Days) that really appeals to me. I think it makes it easier to follow whatever you are doing if you know you will have a rest.

Day 7 – Tuesday, February 5, 2013:
Day 8 – Wednesday, February 6, 2013:
Day 9 – Thursday, February 7, 2013:
Day 10 – Friday, February 8, 2013:
Day 11 – Saturday, February 9, 2013:
Day 12 – Sunday, February 10, 2013:
Day 13 – Monday, February 11, 2013:
Day 14 – Tuesday, February 12, 2013:
Day 15 – Wednesday, February 13, 2013:
Day 16 – Thursday, February 14, 2013:
Day 17 – Friday, February 15, 2013:
Day 18 – Saturday, February 16, 2013:
Day 19 – Sunday, February 17, 2013:
Day 20 – Monday, February 18, 2013:
Day 21 – Tuesday, February 19, 2013:
Day 22 – Wednesday, February 20, 2013:
Day 23 – Thursday, February 21, 2013:
Day 24 – Friday, February 22, 2013:
Day 25 – Saturday, February 23, 2013:
Day 26 – Sunday, February 24, 2013:
Day 27 – Monday, February 25, 2013:
Day 28 – Tuesday, February 26, 2013:
Day 29 – Wednesday, February 27, 2013:
Day 30 – Thursday, February 28, 2013:
Day – Friday, February 29, 2013:
Last edited by Kathleen on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:41 pm, edited 19 times in total.

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:19 am

good call.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

heatherhikes
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:57 pm
Location: uetliberg

Post by heatherhikes » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:57 pm

:)
________________
Love and Peace
H.

User avatar
BrightAngel
Posts: 2093
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: Central California
Contact:

Post by BrightAngel » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:58 pm

Kathleen wrote: Should I be posting here? Maybe. Maybe not.
I have to judge for myself if Reinhard has set up a board to promote his book
or have people help each other.
He's encouraged people to stay on even if they combine No S with another diet.
Reinhard, this is my call out to you.
I'll stay on unless you tell me it is inappropriate for me to do so.
Image Kathleen,
The fact that you have written a lengthy journal about your History with No S
certainly qualifies you to continue posting here in your Thread.
Unless it is pointed out to him, it's unlikely that Reinhard will see your post,
but I feel CERTAIN that he is supportive to your continued posting here.
Your posts actually benefit members who consistently work to follow the No S guidelines.

Your Journal is an excellent example of how powerful the state of Denial can be,
and watching your years of repeated failures as you struggle against all forms of Portion Control,
... even including the minimal and moderate amount required for No S...
has made the necessity FOR Portion Control crystal clear for me and for others.

Watching your Behavior and Results has helped me to avoid similar forms of Denial in my own life,
as it has made me even more willing to put in the effort it takes
to work TOWARD using continual, consistent, Portion Control
in order to continue, here in my 8th year of maintaining, the large weight-loss
that was achieved by my own personal-ongoing-struggle to successfuly control my food portions.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:28 am

I think it's fine for you to post here, as no one is forcing anyone to read your posts, and you certainly use civility at all times, but for your own sake, I think you might also avail yourself of a community more in tune with the strategies you propose to use. People there might have the pivotal issue (portion control is evil) you do. It seems that all the years of bumping up against everybody else's opinions here has actually made you cling even more tightly to yours. Sometimes happens.

I do think it goes beyond portion control, though. Otherwise, you could use one of the programs that propose that you don't have to limit your portions at all, if you limit the foods you eat. But it seems all limitations scare the bejesus out of you. Scylla and Charybdis.

I think there may be a yahoo group associated with Vikki Hansen's work, though I don't know how to find it. Could be a good addition for you. You might consider writing your thoughts in Word documents and then copying them to both sites.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:39 am

Kathleen wrote: Should I be posting here? Maybe. Maybe not.
I have to judge for myself if Reinhard has set up a board to promote his book
or have people help each other.
He's encouraged people to stay on even if they combine No S with another diet.
Reinhard, this is my call out to you.
I'll stay on unless you tell me it is inappropriate for me to do so.
I've been reading the archives. Twice before you have posed this same question directly to Reinhard, and both times he has come back to say you are unequivocally welcome. I'm very sure he won't have changed his mind :)

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:45 am

I'll stay. As the Good Book says, "The truth shall set you free." BrightAngel, you are right that my example can be a warning to others if I do fail. oolala53, I don't feel uncomfortable here. There isn't really a promotional site. ironchef, I had remembered he said I could post for combination diets, but I've moved from No S altogether. In any event, I think you're right: he'd be fine with it, and BrightAngel could be right, too, that it's win win: If I lose weight, there is insight for others; if I gain weight, there is insight for others.
Kathleen

User avatar
NoSRocks
Posts: 1137
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:51 am

Post by NoSRocks » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:58 am

Dearest Kathleen! would miss you if you left. Truly glad you have decided to stay. All the Very Best to you ((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))
No S-er since December 2009
Streamlined S Days: 6/25/12
SW: 170 /CW: 127
Weight loss to date: 43 lbs

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:41 pm

Thanks, NoSRocks. It is good for me to write out what I'm thinking and hear out what others think. I've had to step back some with my children's choices and respect that they have free will and they have to sort out things for themselves. I also need to be patient with myself. Maybe portion control will turn out to be essential, but I won't know unless I give this a good try.
Kathleen

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:51 pm

The Blessings of Simplicity: February 9, 2013

I act thin. To help me in acting thin, I:
- sit down when eating, if possible
- avoid distractions, if possible
- place utensil down or place hand away from mouth, if possible, while chewing food


Weight Summary
(Month 1) Day 1 - Tuesday, February 9, 2013: 220.0

Weight for month
Day 1 - Tuesday, February 5, 2013: 220.6
Day 2 – Wednesday, February 6, 2013: 220.8
Day 3 – Thursday, February 7, 2013: 220.6

Day 1 – Friday, February 8, 2013: 221.0

Day 1 – Saturday, February 9, 2013: 220.0
Day 2 – Sunday, February 10, 2013:
Day 3 – Monday, February 11, 2013:
Day 4 – Tuesday, February 12, 2013: 219.0
Day 5 – Wednesday, February 13, 2013:
Day 6 – Thursday, February 14, 2013:
Day 7 – Friday, February 15, 2013:
Day 8 – Saturday, February 16, 2013: 222.0
Day 9 – Sunday, February 17, 2013:
Day 10 – Monday, February 18, 2013:
Day 11 – Tuesday, February 19, 2013:
Day 12 – Wednesday, February 20, 2013:
Day 13 – Thursday, February 21, 2013:
Day 14 – Friday, February 22, 2013:
Day 15 – Saturday, February 23, 2013:
Day 16 – Sunday, February 24, 2013:
Day 17 – Monday, February 25, 2013:
Day 18 – Tuesday, February 26, 2013:
Day 19 – Wednesday, February 27, 2013:
Day 20 – Thursday, February 28, 2013:

Journal
Day 1 – Tuesday, February 5, 2013: I weighed in at 220.6 this morning, which is absolutely incredible because I ate and ate and ate yesterday. Why? I think I faced up to the fact that I need to look at what I am willing to do for the rest of my life to lose and maintain a lower weight and what is effective of what I am willing to do. That turns out to be very little.

This is my plan for losing my excess weight:
Sit down when eating.
Avoid distractions while eating.
Place hand or utensil down while eating and take up utensil or lift up my hand to my mouth only after the bite in my mouth has been swallowed.

It's funny. I have a word of the day calendar by the computer, and today's word is "waterloo" meaning "a decisive or final defeat or setback." That, perhaps is what I needed. I needed to give up.

I do think that trying too hard is what got me into trouble. I have needed to work with my body, not try to control it. I can now eat as much as I want whenever I want. It is only how I am eating that I am changing. Will this make a big difference? Well, I do think it will make a difference.

It's funny... The kids are now complaining about how the food is being changed at food. Maybe it's good. Maybe it's not so good. Maybe it's not the problem. Maybe this society is too much of an on-the-go society and there is too little focus on manners. Meals used to start with grace and end with grace. There was a graciousness to living that is lost in this rush-rush world. How are you supposed to have a family dinner when, as happened last night, Tom was traveling, Tommy got home from swim team at 7, and Katie had flute lessons starting at 7?

Day 2 – Wednesday, February 6, 2013: 220.8 Yesterday was a busy day because I'm trying to paint the foyer and had two volunteer commitments at the elementary school. I ended up going to the elementary school three times and the high school twice. By 5, when we were coming home from Costco, I ended up eating bars on the drive home and then just eating without regard to my new rules. Before I was into the bars, I realized I actually felt a little hungry. This was encouraging to me. What these rules do is create a disincentive to eat because there are more important priorities. This may actually work. How easy it would be to just stick to following good eating habits and let go of all the rest, including two of those 7 Habits of Slim People (starting to eat when hungry and stopping eating when satisfied.) I don't have to worry about waiting until my hunger level = 2 or stopping eating when my hunger level = 5. All I have to do is allow myself to eat whatever I want whenever I want. There is an opportunity cost to eating now: I have to give up other activities to eat. I cannot combine driving or listening to the radio or reading the paper with eating. If I want to eat now, the desire to eat has to be greater than the desire to read The Wall Street Journal. That's a high bar! Placing the utensil down while eating slows down my eating. This is only opportunity cost. No binge eating will be triggered if I know I can always eat whatever I want whenever I want. I also don't need to follow these rules perfectly. I need to follow them if I am able to eat right then without awkwardness. I can stop driving to eat in the car. I cannot sit down at a grocery store to have a taste test.

It seems too good to be true that I can lose weight doing this. It may well be too good to be true. Time will tell. Over time, I am guessing, I'll eat less and less because the food has to be worth the time to eat it and there is so much else that is interesting to do. I have to laugh at myself here. Had I spent more time eating rather than thinking about eating or writing about eating, maybe I'd be thin today!

3:20 PM: I did fine until about noon and then did not. Maybe I need to follow these rules perfectly. I'll have to limit the rules to solid foods only, since there are too many social occasions where you can get by without eating but not without drinking.

Day 3 – Thursday, February 7, 2013: 220.6 The only time I think I could not follow these rules is if I am at a lunch and learn so something like that can be an exception. Now we will see what happens.

Day 1 – Friday, February 8, 2013: 221.0 It's time to give up. I think it's what I need to do. The 7 Secrets of Slim People has a great line in it about how dieters have a mantra of "Just tell me the rules." That is me to a T. I want some rules to follow. What I really need is to cooperate with my body, to be aware that this is a body not made by me. I can focus on enjoying food and try to avoid eating just to procrastinate.

This morning was a big rush, too much of a rush for me to floss my teeth. I almost always floss my teeth but this morning I did not. Does it really matter if I always sit down to eat or always avoid distractions or always place my fork down between bites? No. It does not. I can work on developing habits but that is all there is. What I really need to do is to pay attention to how food affects my body today, not how food eaten today will impact weight tomorrow and the day after that, etc. All that dieting made me distrust my body.

5:26 PM: There is one thing I think I can do perfectly and that is to write down everything I eat. I think I will do that Monday through Saturday giving myself Sunday off.

Day 1 – Saturday, February 9, 2013: 220.0 This is my first full day of writing down everything I eat. Since I weighed an even 220, I decided just to mark today as Day 1. The day 1 selection is really arbitrary. I've been getting to this point for a long time. There is something called an examen that you are supposed to practice as a Catholic which is more or less a daily review, at the end of the day, of how you did that day. That idea fits very nicely with writing down everything you eat. At the end of the day, you can look at what you ate and ask: "Was it really necessary for me to have three bowls of ice cream or an entire bowl of popcorn or 1/2 bag of caramels or whatever?" The time of eating will be past, but at least there is a time of evaluation. This morning's Wall Street Journal has an article on using agile methodology for managing the family, and one defining characteristic of agile is the retrospective. What that means is you have a time after implementation for "lessons learned". I couldn't get simpler than just having "Write down what you eat on every day except Sunday." I think you need a day off. What this will do is have me tend to push off overeating to Sunday. The girls are dogsitting this weekend which means Tootsie needs a walk...

10:23 PM: It's a good thing tomorrow is Sunday because I'm disgusted by how much I ate today. I wonder if that is a normal amount of food for me. I honestly don't know. I've focused on how I eat and why I eat and when I eat but not on what and how much, so I have no idea. If this is a normal amount, there is no doubt I do not have a metabolism problem.

Day 2 – Sunday, February 10, 2013: It was quite shocking to see how much I ate yesterday. Having to write things down made me aware of how often I am eating and how much I am eating. I was too much of a coward to weigh myself.

Day 3 – Monday, February 11, 2013: I've got the No S Diet idea of time off, with my deciding not to write down what I eat on Sundays. There was a practical inspiration to this as well in that I wanted to use a calendar which had 1/2 the space for Saturday and Sunday that it had for other days of the week. I can use that space for Saturday eating. Yesterday, I enjoyed not writing down what I eat but I was aware of eating a lot. As a result, I was once again not willing to weigh myself. I'm not sure when I will weigh myself next.

Our parish gave out books called The Dynamic Catholic and it is there are listed four attributes of an engaged Catholic. The first attribute is the routine practice of prayer, starting with a daily examination of conscience called an examen. I read that and thought -- huh -- in a way, writing down what you eat forces you to be aware of what you are eating.

Writing this, I think back to when we took the kids to Disneyland perhaps 8 or so years ago and I tried this approach. When I got home, I had gained weight. Maybe daily weighing of myself would help. The problem with daily weighing is that weigh can fluctuate. That fact was just reinforced when I spent the day eating everything in sight and my weight actually went down the next day. Still, there is a trend and weighing myself helps me to not fool myself. I think I should return to daily weighing. Knowing I am going to weigh myself also may allow me to consider if I really want to be eating so much right now.

12:21 PM: With no restraint on my eating, I have eaten what I want which is a lot. It may be that a critical component of being thin is acting thin before you are. That's what I'm adding to my approach.

7:30 PM: Okay. I made another change. Why not try at least to follow those rules for focusing on food while eating? I may not be perfect in execution, but so what! These are a "fake it till you make it" way to acting thin, only I think I'm going to count on needing to fake it for life. So what! It's a list of five very easy daily ways to live my life.

8:25 PM: I decided no Sundays off. I'll use a different calendar.

Day 4 – Tuesday, February 12, 2013: 219.0 This morning, when I stepped on the scale, I speculated that my weight could be as high as 225. Instead, my weight was lower. Apparently, I do eat as much as I have been recording these last few days. That is an eye-opener to be sure. How disgusting! To me, acting thin is no longer about becoming naturally thin. I have to give up that goal. Instead, I'm mimicking the behavior of thin people to a sufficient enough degree that I can lose weight. Thin people do not practice portion control. I know. I get to observe my almost 12 year old who yesterday took one bite of her breakfast but had two helpings at dinner. Following these rules will help me to tune into my own hunger. The cost of eating is now to slow down (since you cannot eat fast by following these rules) and to remember what I ate so that I can write down what I ate. This could work!

9:23 PM: I deleted the objective of weighing myself every day. I'm not so sure about that. Everything else is fine. Tomorrow is Ash Wednesday. Maybe my Lenten resolution should be to follow these four rules as well as I can.

Day 5 – Wednesday, February 13, 2013: I want this approach to be simply part of my life, not a focus in my life. That's been an objective all along. Weighing myself daily would continue to make it a focus in my life and would lead to daily questioning of "Am I on the right track?" Writing down everything I eat would also require daily attention, but it's something I could end up doing at the end of the day just as a way to reflect on how I am doing in managing what clearly is my biggest fault, my overeating. The great Aristotle is correct in saying, "We are what we repeatedly do." What I am repeatedly doing? Thrashing around. It's time to stop. The big step is to say "I've done what I can, I've spent a lot of time trying different approaches, and this is the best approach I can think will work for the long haul." That's it. The biggest commitment is this: "I accept the weight that results from following this approach."

1:30 PM: The habit of taking my hand or utensil away from my mouth while chewing is a much more effective way of slowing down my eating than is chewing each bite ten times. The habit is easy to develop and I am not forced to count the number of times I chew which distracts from the enjoyment of my food.

9 PM: I think I'm just going to write down what I eat at the end of the day.

Day 6 – Thursday, February 14, 2013: Oh, I think I can write down what I eat during the day. My biggest problem is actually following the rules. It's very much ingrained in me to read and eat. Heck, I read in the bathtub, I read when I'm blow drying my hair, I read a lot and combine it with many activities. It may take time, and I'm not expecting perfection of myself, but I'll be this same weight if I don't do anything.

1:36 PM: I had chocolate covered almonds and milk for lunch. Why? It was quick. I did not eat without distraction, but I did place my hand away from the food while chewing. How do I feel now? Somewhat sick. What have I learned from this? I am going to lose weight if I follow these rules because they will force me to choose between eating and doing something else, and there will be times when doing something else will be a more attractive choice. In addition, I cannot live on chocolate covered almonds alone. I'm going to have to carve out time to eat. Good. Here I am fat as can be, so fat I fit in the XXL size sweater I just bought at Costco, BUT I can be confident my weight will be lower if I just follow these rules. That is encouraging. I can be done with tweaking. Now what I need is self-discipline.

Day 7 – Friday, February 15, 2013: Writing down what I eat is a total pain. I'm not going to continue with that. That now leaves me with three habits to develop and follow. I'm not doing too well following them but do see potential for following them to naturally lead to eating less. This may take some time and that's OK. Will I ever be thin? Probably not. At least, however, I'll have a life.
Last edited by Kathleen on Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:26 pm, edited 11 times in total.

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:21 am

Hi Kathleen,
I'm really glad you decided to stay!
Okay. I made another change.
I know you are aware of this, since you can read your last few journal entries, but you've changed your approach just about daily in the past week or so. No diet / eating philosophy will work after just a day (or a few hours) of compliance, especially when interspersed with overeating. Even very restrictive diets take time to work, and gentle / slow approaches like IE or No-S take even longer.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:33 am

ironchef,
I know. This approach is to mimic behavior of thin people. I am eternally optimistic despite my obesity but there is something very encouraging about this approach. It is about time I stopped tweaking, however.
Kathleen

MJ7910
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:17 am

Post by MJ7910 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:57 pm

what set me back was tweaking too much. I gave up last time on NoS after about 1.5 months because I was impatient and didn't give it a chance to work. This time I hope to make it at least 6 months. I think in time the bad habits will work their way out.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:10 pm

The Blessings of Simplicity: February 19, 2013


Weight Summary
(Month 1) Day 1 - Sunday, February 17, 2013: 220.6


Exception Time Blocks Summary
Starting Balance on February 17, 2013: 2


Weight for month
Day 1 – Sunday, February 17, 2013: 220.6
Day 2 – Monday, February 18, 2013: 220.8

Day 1 – Tuesday, February 19, 2013: 222.0
Day 2 – Wednesday, February 20, 2013:
Day 3 – Thursday, February 21, 2013:
Day 4 – Friday, February 22, 2013:
Day 5 – Saturday, February 23, 2013:
Day 6 – Sunday, February 24, 2013:
Day 7 – Monday, February 25, 2013:
Day 8 – Tuesday, February 26, 2013:
Day 9 – Wednesday, February 27, 2013:
Day 10 – Thursday, February 28, 2013:


Journal for month
Day 2 – Monday, February 18, 2013: 220.8 For reasons that I do not understand, I binge eat. Why? I do not know. It may be that those years of dieting created a driving need to eat, but I really don't know. I remember years before learning about No S that I considered the possibility of "controlled binges", and this is what No S has become for me. I can only follow the rules if I know that there will be a free time in the near future. What I have done now is craft a diet that is what I believe is the maximum I can do, and then I need to live with the weight that results. The eating habits having to do with how I eat -- sitting down, avoiding distractions, and placing my utensil down -- are mere wishes with no consequences if I do not follow them. The consequence of eating outside of meal time is using an Exception Day. I am tired, very tired, of all of this.


Day 1 – Tuesday, February 19, 2013: 222.0

1. Sit down when eating, if possible.
2. Avoid distractions, if possible.
3. Place utensil down or place hand away from mouth, if possible, while chewing food.
4. Eat only at meals, if possible.
5. Allow exceptions every Sunday from 6 - 9 PM and a rolling average of two additional three hour periods per month.


The diet above does not work for me. I am experiencing with No S what I have experienced with other diets: "diet collapse". It is time for me to step back and think what I am going to do.

Maybe I'll try the "training" in The Seven Secrets of Slim People.

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:32 pm

Kathleen wrote:The diet above does not work for me. I am experiencing with No S what I have experienced with other diets: "diet collapse". It is time for me to step back and think what I am going to do.
The diet you list in bold above is not No-S, in fact it bears almost no resemblance to No-S, apart from a little bit of Rule 4. I know you said you are "stepping back" so I don't know if you'll read this, but I hope you will recognise that what you've been doing for the past few weeks was your own plan, based on "The 7 Secrets of Slim People", not No-S. Perhaps reading the past few pages of your journal entries would help you put things in perspective?
Best of luck with whatever you decide!

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:00 pm

Agreed. I am not following No S. If it doesn't work, people reading my journal can think 195 is better than 222. I now have trouble crossing my legs.
Kahtleen

MJ7910
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:17 am

Post by MJ7910 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:06 pm

i think if you practiced it for a while and didn't see much result, modifying a little is ok. as long as it doesn't have the opposite effect where you are too strict and then when you dont' comply it doesn't get too wild . that was the problem i had, as soon as i would make rules i would try to rebel from them and i'd make it even harder for myself.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:13 pm

The Blessings of Simplicity: February 24, 2013

Days Off:
No rules. These days are a rolling average of two Exception Days per month. This diet requires "perfect compliance" so I am never ever to go negative on number of Exception Days. This is how I make the diet into a habit which is easy to follow but does require some effort.

Days On:
I eat three meals per day, defining a meal as everything in front of me before I take one bite. All liquids are allowed anytime except sugared pop.


Weight Summary
(Month 1) Day 1 - Sunday, February 24, 2013: 223.2
(Month 2) Day 6 - Friday, March 1, 2013: 222.2

Exception Days
Starting Balance on February 24, 2013: 2
Balance as of March 1, 2013: 4
Exception Day: March 1, 2013 (now down to 3)

Weight for month
Day 1 – Sunday, February 24, 2013: 223.2
Day 2 – Monday, February 25, 2013: 222.6
Day 3 – Tuesday, February 26, 2013: 221.4
Day 4 – Wednesday, February 27, 2013: 222.4
Day 5 – Thursday, February 28, 2013: 223.4
Day 6 - Friday, March 1, 2013: 222.2
Day 7 – Saturday, March 2, 2013: 222.8
Day 8 – Sunday, March 3, 2013: 222.6
Day 9 – Monday, March 4, 2013:
Day 10 – Tuesday, March 5, 2013:
Day 11 – Wednesday, March 6, 2013:
Day 12 – Thursday, March 7, 2013:
Day 13 – Friday, March 8, 2013:
Day 14 – Saturday, March 9, 2013:
Day 15 – Sunday, March 10, 2013:
Day 16 – Monday, March 11, 2013:
Day 17 – Tuesday, March 12, 2013:
Day 18 – Wednesday, March 13, 2013:
Day 19 – Thursday, March 14, 2013:
Day 20 – Friday, March 15, 2013:
Day 21 – Saturday, March 16, 2013:
Day 22 – Sunday, March 17, 2013:
Day 23 – Monday, March 18, 2013:
Day 24 – Tuesday, March 19, 2013:
Day 25 – Wednesday, March 20, 2013:
Day 26 – Thursday, March 21, 2013:
Day 27 – Friday, March 22, 2013:
Day 28 – Saturday, March 23, 2013:
Day 29 – Sunday, March 24, 2013:
Day 30 – Monday, March 25, 2013:
Day 31 – Tuesday, March 26, 2013:
Day 32 – Wednesday, March 27, 2013:
Day 33 – Thursday, March 28, 2013:
Day 34 – Friday, March 29, 2013:
Day 35 – Saturday, March 30, 2013:
Day 36 – Sunday, March 31, 2013:

Day 1 – Sunday, February 24, 2013: I am back, fatter and wiser. You have to accept the weight that results if you are going to follow this diet. Do you want a reasonable weight and sanity? I'm taking Ellie and three friends to the Mall of America this morning, so I don't have time to convey anything except disgust.

Day 2 – Monday, February 25, 2013: 222.6 It doesn't matter if I weigh myself or not. That has always been a big consideration for me. What matters is that I accept the weight that results from following the diet. I may have been dissatisfied with 196 but 223 is downright disgusting. I have trouble crossing my legs. I have to change how I put on shoes. I had to put bra extenders in my bras. My jacket pulls when I zipper it up. It's no longer worth it to tweak.

What have I learned? I have learned that I eat everything available when I have no rules. It may be that this is the result of years of dieting when I ate everything I was allowed on the diet. Does it really matter why I eat like this? No.

No S is good for me because it puts boundaries around eating that are easy enough to follow, but I don't think they can become effortless. This was another delusional goal I had: I wanted the diet to be effortless. I have to have this diet as part of my life, a simple part, one that requires some effort but not so much it becomes the focus in my life. My weight has already been a big focus in my life. I'd rather be a higher weight than have my weight take so much attention.

Day 3 – Tuesday, February 26, 2013: 221.4 It was easier yesterday to follow No S than it has been to not follow No S. My only difficulty was having enough time for dinner, and that is a matter of planning.

8 PM: I bought a gallon of full fat milk today and have had about 1/2 of it -- a full quart! Why? It will help me adjust to my new normal.

Day 4 – Wednesday, February 27, 2013: 222.4 My weight probably went up at least in part due to all the full fat milk I drank, and that's OK. I need to plunge in to get this habit down right away, and the milk will ease the transition for me.

Day 5 – Thursday, February 28, 2013: 223.4 I woke up this morning and there was a change in me that reminded me of the wind suddenly dying: I just don't feel hungry at all. It's been my theory for a long time that dieting triggers the body's survival mechanisms against starvation which leads to out of control binge eating. I kept to the rules by downing almost an entire gallon of whole milk in two days, and now that driving need to eat is simply not present. I am now at my highest weight, and my hope is I'm headed down in a calm manner. I've been through this before, many times, so I know it will occur again. Whole milk could be the answer. Will I buy more? Yes, when that drive to eat everything in sight recurs. As for this morning, I think the rest of the milk will go down the sink. There's only perhaps 2 cups left, and no one else in the house will drink it.

7:40 AM: I had Ellie take my picture, since I'm at this incredibly high weight and I continue to feel as though I'm just not that interested in eating. Some of the most insightful words I've read about people who lose weight and maintain that loss is that they have the "psychological profile of people who are starving." Exactly. That's how I've felt even though I'm obese! There is an absence of something this morning that I cannot quite describe, but it simply is this: I do not want to eat even though there is every reason why I would eat. After all, it's breakfast time. Not only do I not want to eat, the thought actually repulses me like the thought of drinking milk which seems like cream. Oh, if this would last, how heavenly that would be! Meanwhile, my dog is really begging for a walk. She's facing me, with her head down on her paws on the floor, what we call a "Tommy extreme." It's time to enjoy a little warmer weather with a walk!

Day 6 - Friday, March 1, 2013: 222.2 I made it to today, which is significant because I am adding 2 Exception Days to my allowable limit of Exception Days. There is less danger now that I will go negative. Last night, I was awake because I felt hungry, having taken less than I needed for dinner. I got up and read but did not get up and eat. There is a certain determination in me now to stick with this diet no matter how I feel and no matter how much weight I lose (or gain). Why? The main benefit of this diet is sanity: You are not thinking about food all the time.

11:30 AM: I visited someone I know who is recovering from her third round of chemo. She had wanted company and said she would put on some coffee. Bless her heart -- she also made cinnamon rolls for me, her visitor. Did I expect it? Not at all. Was I going to refuse the cinnamon roll? No. This is a perfect example of why I need Exception Days if I am going to have "perfect compliance" with a diet.

Day 7 – Saturday, March 2, 2013: 222.8 I woke up and thought I do not need weekend Exception Days. Those days just confuse me as to the purpose of Exception Days which are for social reasons and for celebrations. When I first started No S, I would count the hours until I could eat everything in sight. The kids would steer clear of me on Thursday nights because I'd start to get grumpy with a whole extra day left until I could eat. No longer... What seems normal now is eating only at mealtime. I also don't seem to have a fear of starvation when I follow this approach. This morning, I had my standard breakfast of Cheerios with craisins. Knowing I can eat again at lunch made me comfortable having no more than that. When I first started No S, I woudl pile on so much that it was absurd: peanut butter sandwiches on top of entire serving bowls of popcorn. No more. Those days are past.

12:30 PM: Simplicity. I'm not going to worry about taking one bite at a time. I'm just going to focus on eating at meals and having no sweets except a rolling average of two Exception Days per month.

Day 8 – Sunday, March 3, 2013: 222.6 I got through the week with one very appropriate Exception Day. This morning, it occurred to me that, being older, I may not need as much food. I tried having my favorite breakfast of Cheerios and craisins in a smaller bowl. It was fine, just fine. This wasn't portion control. I could have had the cereal in a larger bowl. My first thought was I could save some money eating a more appropriate amount of food. My hope is that, with the fear of starvation abating, I may find all sorts of ways that I can reduce my intake of food without any negativity at all.
Last edited by Kathleen on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm, edited 15 times in total.

TexArk
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:50 am
Location: Foothills of the Ozarks

A Pattern

Post by TexArk » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:37 pm

Kathleen, I am sure you are aware of this pattern which you have been following for years. Here is what the last month looks like:

Day 1 Jan 29
Day 1 Jan 30
Day 1 Feb 5
Day 1 Feb 8
Day 1 Feb 9
Day 1 Feb 17
Day 1 Feb 19
Day 1 Feb 24

My humble suggestion would be to stay with NoS or one of your plans for one month before changing or tweaking. Every time you change plans, you seem to have a pre start over binge (Last Supper).

It is my opinion that there are really no such things as start overs. This isn't a game where we get to start with a new score each time. This is life. Every bite counts and each day counts whether we count it or not. The consistency and persistence is more important than the "perfect" diet.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:45 pm

TexArk,
I do recognize the pattern. My level of self-disgust is very high. Thanks for caring.
Kathleen

MJ7910
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:17 am

Post by MJ7910 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:52 pm

i agree too. i know i didn't want to gain weight but i felt like i had to stick with no s for a while to see if i could get the structure down. i think i did gain a bit of weight but it's ok because it helped me to have a good trial run of this and feel like i was doing something different before i made any mods or changes. i know you can get on track, but it may take a few false starts. my plan is to tentatively put slight mods on sdays. nothing too rash, but just so i'm not eating all day. i will see how that works and if i find i'm having problems maybe go back to the original structure.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:00 pm

MJ7910,
I went months and months of doing things like getting up at midnight on Friday to eat Haagen Dazs bars. That stopped eventually. My S Days did get more moderate, in part because I started to think S stood for stomach ache. My problem with the diet, and the reason for my constant tweaking, was I was not satisfied with a plateau that got me to 196. It backfired for me to attempt tweaking S Days, starting with going from two down to one.
Kathleen

leafy_greens
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:18 pm

Post by leafy_greens » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:02 pm

Hi Kathleen,

One plate of food is not "portion control." There is no weighing of the one plate. There is no measuring other than making sure it fits within a pretty large border. I see eating whatever is in front of you, beyond one plate, as binging (which is not in the No S OR Intuitive Eating principles.)

I have not read your entire thread but from this last page it seems like you are obsessing over counting/measuring under the guise of NOT counting/measuring. Apparently, you have turned "no counting and measuring" into a different system of obsession, involving rituals and behaviors, which to me is just as bad.

I think you are afraid to commit to one plate of food, so you claim that a plate is "portion control that will lead to obsessing" in order to eat more than one plate of food. But the result is that you are still obsessed, only about tweaking and mod-ing into something that does not have any resemblance to No S.

I have not counted or measured anything while on No S, other than fitting it on a plate or loosely virtual plating (such as a bowl of soup next to the plate).

Reinhard has successfully made the case that No S works on people with food issues because there is no counting or measuring, only very obvious goalposts. These obvious goalposts don't require the focus and obsession of the counting and measuring diets, which leads to overcoming food issues. I wish you could give it a try long enough to find out, and resist the urge to mod or tweak.

Hope this helps - not trying to judge.

MJ7910
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:17 am

Post by MJ7910 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:43 pm

i agree with both of you somehow... i know that sounds funny but i'll try and explain.

the only mods i set for myself were reasonable ones because i can't get the idea of "dont' be an idiot" down. sdays are nonstop eating right now. and yes, i can relate to you kathleen about s=stomach-ache! so anyway, the mods for me are now that my sdays are 10p friday to 10p sunday. i can have one small thing i've been wanting friday night. not a crazy binge spree, but just something nice i've been wanting. i'm trying to keep the basic nday meal structure when i can do that for sdays. i know that sometimes i won't be able to (like if i'm traveling, if it's a birthday party at 2pm and there is cake) but i will still try for about 3 s-events each day and make sure i'm not overstuffing myself. very simple and doable mods. no measuring during ndays, just using a plate as a guide. i have some ideas about what i want on that plate, but no official rules.

so i see what you are saying about needing some guidelines due to out of control eating/plateauing... but at the same time just try and be careful about placing a bunch of rules on yourself. it does take practice to get a system in place that works for you. but like leafygreens said, the idea behind NoS was also No stress diet! which is what is should be. no having to remember the rules all the time... just 3 simple rules.

however i totally understand trying to curb out of control eating and stomach aches. my belief is for me personally it will get there in time but i do want to help myself out a bit.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:02 pm

leafy-greens and M17910,
Before I was married, I moved to Denver because I thought I would like it there. I ended up getting a job but did not like the dry weather, so I got myself back to Minnesota. At any rate, while there, I was told a story by someone who lived there of why he thinks Denver exists where it does, not near any waterways unlike every other major American city. He said he thought the pioneers who were headed to California took one look at the mountains and said, "I'm not going over those." That's how I feel right now. I'm done tweaking. Maybe what I've got is not optimal, but I'm not going over those mountains. What I've got is good enough for me. I always appreciate feedback. It's good to get other perspectives, but at this piont I've shut down. I'm sick to death of all the effort I put into getting to be over 220.
Kathleen

MJ7910
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:17 am

Post by MJ7910 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:14 pm

all you can do is try something out for a while and see if it's successful. i wish you luck! we all have to find what works for us.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:25 am

This is where I land.

Eurobabe2
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:31 pm

Post by Eurobabe2 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:29 pm

Happy to see you back with us. Check in often, and we'll give you all the support you need to stay on track.
One suggestion to help with cravings: I started drinking tea, all kinds of teas (black, white, Roobios, green etc) because Prevention magazine always talks about the benefits of tea. There always seemed to be a different tea that was good for you, so I just decided to drink 4 or 5 cups a day of different ones and figured I'd get the benefits from all of them eventually.
One happy side effect of all this tea drinking is that it helps to curb cravings. I hadn't expected it, but I'm really happy about it.
Why not give it a try? At worst, it'll be healthy. :)

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:39 am

I'm glad to see you back with us as well. You can do this!

I agree with Eurobabe on the tea. I save the caloric drinks (whole milk, 100% juice) for when I'm really hungry - e.g. misjudged a meal. If I'm just craving or need "something to do" I try to grab an unsweetened tea, coffee, sparkling water with lemon, etc.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:28 pm

Eurobabe2 and ironchef,
Tea is good. I sometimes have it when I am not feeling well. I have tried it to curb hunger, and it doesn't work too well for me. There's something very strange about my drive to overeat. I don't think it necessarily is about satisfying hunger. It's more about calming the fear of hunger from dieting.
Kathleen

ironchef
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 am
Location: Australia

Post by ironchef » Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:32 pm

Kathleen wrote:This diet requires "perfect compliance" so I am never ever to go negative on number of Exception Days.
I would challenge the statement that No-S requires perfection. To my knowledge, Reinhard has never promoted the idea that you must have 100% compliance. We're all human, even the most successful No-Ser is going to fail now and again.
11:30 AM: I visited someone I know who is recovering from her third round of chemo. She had wanted company and said she would put on some coffee. Bless her heart -- she also made cinnamon rolls for me, her visitor. Did I expect it? Not at all. Was I going to refuse the cinnamon roll? No. This is a perfect example of why I need Exception Days if I am going to have "perfect compliance" with a diet.
I would have had a roll too. I had a recent fail for a similar reason - I visited a friend to meet her twin baby girls and she had baked a cake. When a mother of new twins finds time to bake, I eat a slice! You don't need to make exceptions and worry about perfection. Just say "This was a fail" and move on to the next meal. As long as you don't have red days every week, it's all good.

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:49 pm

ironchef,
That, in a nutshell, is my problem with the diet. How can these two examples be called failures? I think I do need perfect compliance because I eat whatever is allowed. If I've learned something by giving up No S, it's that the structure of eating at meals is maintained through a decision to do it and not through habit. Silly me -- I thought I'd revert to eating at meals only because the habit was sufficiently well maintained while I was on No S. I thought I could go to effortless eating. Dream on.... I was only fooling myself.
Kathleen

User avatar
No BS
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:06 am
Location: Canada

Post by No BS » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:24 pm

I quit smoking many times before I quit for good.

All that practice helped me figure out how to finally quit "right" for me.

During the process, I learned lots about making a habit, breaking a habit, and exactly where my desire for change ranked on the continuum.

And entropy. Learned more than I ever wanted to know about entropy.

I suspect all the theatrics (wringing my hands & railing over the "predicament" compelling my need for change & the "uniqueness" of my extremely banal situation) were simply a noisy precursor to actually dealing with the problem. Like vocal exercises before a concert.

It still amazes me how easy it is to move a mountain when I actually believe I have the personal power to do so. And understand that no one can move it for me. :roll:

Good luck, Kathleen. I imagine the people on this BB will always support you in your endeavours.
If you are not living life on the edge you are taking up too much room!!

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:34 pm

No BS,
Your post brought tears to my eyes. What an eloquent description of the struggle to break a bad habit! How cheering it is to have you say you were able to stop smoking! Thanks for such an encouraging post!
Kathleen


Day 1 – Tuesday, March 12, 2013: 224.2 By process of elimination, I have concluded that the path to being fit and happy is narrow, and I have narrowed it down to a core principle of only managing how you eat, not what you eat or when you eat or how much you eat or where you eat. The books I Can Make You Thin and The 7 Habits of Slim People share in common a focus on managing eating by 1. Slowing down your eating to enjoy it, and 2. Rating your hunger and only eating when you are hungry. I simply cannot manage my eating by rating my hunger. Any attempt triggers a binge. That leaves me with managing how I eat. Here is my core idea: When I eat, I try to eat without distraction and place utensils or food down until after I have swallowed the bite in my mouth. This approach means I can eat without restriction. If fear of starvation is the main trigger for binges, then I should relax. I will report back at the start of next month.

I'm not real keen on going against the No S Diet in any way because it helped me to calm down about eating. The problem with it is it did not help me to overcome those weekend binges. I had to disassemble the artificial limits on eating during the week in order to focus on how I eat. In addition to this one core principle of savoring my food, I am going to try to be more active. While I have been overweight since I had my last baby 12 years ago, I have not experienced much limitation due to my weight -- until now. These last 10 pounds have really affected me. My thighs are too fat for me to comfortably cross my legs. I can no longer lift my leg up to fully bend my knees so I can put my socks on but instead have to cross my legs to put on my socks. It's really disgusting. Despite that, I'm not returning to No S.
Last edited by Kathleen on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Eurobabe2
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:31 pm

Post by Eurobabe2 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:52 am

Well, glad to hear from you no matter what system you are following. Post more often, okay? Because of you, I'm now conscious of how fast I'm eating (it was WAY too fast) and I've modified it. So thanks.

What are you doing for exercise these days?

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:55 pm

Eurobabe2,
Not much for exercise. I picked up a book on core exercises and about died after doing the very simple exercises. That was on Monday. I'll repeat them this afternoon. I am thinking what I need to do is look at following one habit at a time and build from there. With all my years of floundering around, I think that the most important habit to build is also fairly easy and will not trigger a binge: place fork or food down after each bite until the food is swallowed. This approach is way different from N S which is why I hesitate to write here, and yet my higher weight may be the motivation for other to follow No S.
Kathleen

Kathleen
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by Kathleen » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:37 pm

The Blessings of Simplicity: March 14, 2013

Days Off:
No rules. These days are a rolling average of two Exception Days per month. This diet requires "perfect compliance" so I am never ever to go negative on number of Exception Days. This is how I make the diet into a habit which is easy to follow but does require some effort.

Days On:
I eat three meals per day, defining a meal as everything in front of me before I take one bite. All liquids are allowed anytime except sugared pop.

Add Ons:
There are other steps I am taking to lose weight, but there are no hard and fast rules for any of them. These steps are:
1. Sit down to eat.
2. Eat without distraction.
3. While chewing and swallowing, place utensils or food down.
4. Go on the exercise bike five days per week for 1/2 hour per time.
5. Do strengthening exercises and core exercises three days per week.


Weight Summary
(Month 1) Day 1 - Thursday, March 14, 2013: 224.0

Exception Days
Starting Balance on March 14, 2013: 2



Weight for month
Day 1 – Thursday, March 14, 2013: 224.0
Day 2 – Friday, March 15, 2013:
Day 3 – Saturday, March 16, 2013:
Day 4 – Sunday, March 17, 2013:
Day 5 – Monday, March 18, 2013:
Day 6 – Tuesday, March 19, 2013:
Day 7 – Wednesday, March 20, 2013:
Day 8 – Thursday, March 21, 2013:
Day 9 – Friday, March 22, 2013:
Day 10 – Saturday, March 23, 2013:
Day 11 – Sunday, March 24, 2013:
Day 12 – Monday, March 25, 2013:
Day 13 – Tuesday, March 26, 2013:
Day 14 – Wednesday, March 27, 2013:
Day 15 – Thursday, March 28, 2013:
Day 16 – Friday, March 29, 2013:
Day 17 – Saturday, March 30, 2013:
Day 18 – Sunday, March 31, 2013:

Journal for month
Day 1 – Thursday, March 14, 2013: 224.0 I made a mistake. The modification of the No S Diet that I followed was a framework for me to lose weight. It is the anti-intuitive eating approach. It is not compatible with rating your hunger, but -- for me -- that is not a problem. It can be compatible with developing and following habits of exercise and manners which slow eating.

Something came over me this morning as I read about the new pope. He takes a personal approach to holiness. He leads by example. I shake my head thinking of what a role model I have been. This morning, I lectured Katie on prioritizing homework over personal reading, and then Tommy and Katie missed the bus because I was focused on reading about the new pope. I had to drive them to school. I told them I wasn't angry at them and why -- because I was not focused on getting them to the bus stop. Then I got home and had to take Ellie to school. When I got home, I saw her lunch on the table. I'll drop it off on the way to Costco later this morning.

There is no time like the present. I cannot go back even one minute in time.

Post Reply