oolala53

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:37 am

Maybe, but it won't let me go. A lot of my incentive for sticking with N days was the pleasure from eating when I was hungry. When that first started to go, I started overeating, paradoxically. Or maybe not paradoxically. I'd lost one of the major rewards of moderation, so what was the point? The concept of moderation alone hasn't been enough, but time will tell.

And I gained weight back. It wasn't as much a cosmetic thing as that I just haven't been feeling as free and springy. I'd like to get back to that. Adjusting the food may take care of it, but it may also be something else. In the meantime, I'm not miserable about it, but I am curious.

snapdragon · Post by **snapdragon** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:30 pm

I hope you figure this out. I like the freggie idea. A dish of cold watermelon with lime juice squeezed on it is scrumptious. I might add grated ginger next time, or minced fresh mint.
I started working out regularily. At first it did not change and sometimes reduced my appitite, but after a while I found myself STARVING all day. Then that regulated itself. I k now you struggled with getting regular exercise in the past. Perhaps that will help. I know there are so many other benefits to this. Good luck!

please excuse my spelling errors I keep trying to spell appitite and get the same squiggle line....I cant get it right. I know your an English teacher! My apologies!

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:18 pm

I love that you are remaining curious instead of anxious. I think that made a big difference for me, too. I consider No S a very good teacher when I'm not using it as a diet.

I wonder about your issue (can't spell dilemna). You are not hungry enough to enjoy eating meals, or to get the reward of appetite, sometimes. So this paradoxically leads to having "s"es, right?

So when you have the "s"es, do you have the enjoyment of eating at those times? In other words, does having slip-ups INCREASE your enjoyment? I'm wondering what the pay-off is. ?

I also like your notion about other cultures using meals, not hunger, to regulate food. Very true. No 18th century farmer paused before a meal and wondered "hmmmm, am I hungry?" They just ate because it was eating time. I think if you are at a healthy weight, maybe you can enjoy eating because it's eating time, for now? As everyone on this board must certainly agree, we are here because eating when not hungry is actually a highly appealing thing. So in that sense, you are not one bit unusual. I don't like to be stuffed to the point of distraction, but I have never lost the ability to eat just to enjoy eating, hungry or no.

(Hope I don't seem critical -- I am truly interested in your journey. I think we have alot in common).

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:51 pm

Finallyfull, I am looking at that issue of being able to enjoy the meal food even if I'm not hungry. It already had actually happened at times, mostly dinner, when I would just feel I couldn't wait another minute to eat even though I knew I'd be truly hungry an hour later, but I had already waited the number of hours I set for myself between meals.

I do feel some pleasure in the moment of overeating. Sometimes I feel worse later and sometimes not.

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:31 pm

oolala,

I always love reading your posts.

I have to ask, why do you eat at all if you are not hungry? Is it because you have a schedule at work, etc. where you might get hungry and not have the opportunity then?

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:01 pm

Because I still WANT to eat, even though I'm not hungry, and I am just not happy waiting 8, 10, or even more hours to get hungry to eat. I've experimented and that's how long it might take. One time, I went 36 hours with no hunger. But it's not a peaceful experience. (Sometimes it's a work thing; sometimes, it's not.) I WANT to have the experience of eating more often. In the early years, hungerless desire might last only a few hours, usually the first 2-3 hours right after a meal, paradoxically. Then I would get legitimately hungry and then be okay-sometimes even great- waiting until it would be time to eat anyway. Now the hungerless desire can go on and on. There is little contentment and it becomes a real trial to get or stay diverted.

This isn't all day or every day, but often enough that I don't want to just ignore it, almost in honor of No S. I want to be able to do my yearly testimonial having come out of the storm!

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:42 pm

How interesting.

Is there anything you really love, that really makes you anxious to eat?

I know that I don't think I am hungry but after I have piled everything on my plate for my "big" salad, I cannot wait to dig in.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:05 am

It's not that I can't find things I don't want to eat. I still want to eat all kinds of things! It's that there isn't the sense of satisfaction or contentment when there's no hunger, and I don't actually feel very good later. But I don't feel good NOT eating, either. I used to feel good physically so much of the time! Before, I felt that on N days I was eating in tune with my body and it allowed me to eat often enough to be pleased. Now, not as much. I miss it.

I've had to take meds occasionally that have taken any thoughts of food away all day. Even No S has never done that for me. But even that wasn't particularly pleasant, just convenient. It must be what it's like for naturally thin people. But I wouldn't take a pill just to get that.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:38 am

Yesterday, had the closest to an old S day as I've had in a long time. It worried me, but just a little. I don't really feel it's the beginning of a slide back, but these things can sneak up on you, too.

I had a midday meeting with a friend get cancelled last minute. I had been looking forward to getting a dessert while we were together, something mousse-y. Then I got invited out to a movie and there was possibly going to be dessert involved, but the dessert part fell through, too. I did do a little compensatory eating last night after arriving home, but not frantic. Today it doesn't seem important- so far. I'm still going to stick to not eating sweets alone, though. Eating sweets alone still smacks of trying to wring something out of the experience that just doesn't feel right.

I just realized something I think may be important. Eating for years was one of the few "sweet" experiences I could count on in life, from my perspective. Honestly, I still have a lot of thoughts of life not being "sweet" enough, and have worked for years to either increase the sweetness from the outside or just become more at peace with what it, which objectively is oftn quite fine. So this bout of not getting the sweetness of the momentary overeating nor the the "sweetness" of hunger + delicious reward has had me wavering. But I'm going to come through this.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:52 am

Boy, I've been thinking about food most of the afternoon. Partly it's because I'm trying to wean myself off doing too much stuff online after work. That used to occupy me quite well, but I'm starting to feel it is just an avoidance tactic. Yet I didn't feel I could concentrate enough to do productive tasks when I got home (after grocery shopping!) so I succumbed.. to this.

I think part of it is that I'm experimenting with eating even less starch, but I fret over what to replace it with at meals. I can't see myself eating much bigger portions of meat, and I already eat a fair amount of dairy and freggies. (In fact, I've been failing on fruit, esp. melons and cherries. ) That leaves fats. More cheese? More nuts? They're so much more compact for the wallop they pack.

I really don't eat sweets very often, but I do think about them, and I guess I'm curious about people saying that when they go Paleo, they lose all desire for sweets, and claim they stop even thinking about them. I wonder if it's a mind set, too. The idea of not being able to eat more casually of foods available wherever is annoying to me, so I don't know if I could fully commit. I spend a fair amount of time during some months of the year with vegetarians and the foods available at events are pretty starchy.

Time for dinner!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:17 pm

Boy, I once again felt driven to eat dinner early and I ate hearty. I don't know if it was from a couple of stressful events or my starchless lunch. I doubled up on fat to replace it but I wasn't content.

But I've gotten in my morning exercise everyday this week and two evenings. I think it's an advantage to me that I don't do the same thing every day for the morning work. Not sure my shoulder joints and knee could take it otherwise. I'm happy enough so far and am curious to see what comes of my hodgepodge. I know I'll feel stronger, and I like that.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:34 pm

Hey, it sounds like maybe you've gotten back in touch with your appetite? I remember you were concerned about not being hungry, but you've been hungry lately.

Is this a positive thing?

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:51 pm

Oh, I wasn't actually hungry. Just had that antsy feeling.

It's true that I've become a little more peaceful with eating my meals for the sake of routine. And I do get legitimately hungry sometimes.

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:41 pm

yeah - afternoons are tougher for me - I am hoping that back to school stress won't result in stress eating

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:00 am

Have had a good week, even with exercise.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:00 pm

Had a fail this week on leftover marshmallows I thought I had thrown out. When I found them, I didn't throw them out, but put them away. I was hoping I might forget about them again, but it didn't happen. Marshmallows, for god's sake! But I thoroughly enjoyed them toasted!

Otherwise, doing fine. I put on a dress that used to be very tight and it was loose enough on top that I think I would have to take it in if I wanted to wear it often.

I've dropped a fair amount of starches in favor of summer fruits. I had thought of experimenting with some vegetarian days when the weather changes and the choices are different, so grains will be back. I'll be interested to see if it makes a difference in my satiety and in clothes fitting.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:01 pm

Experimented with my eating schedule yesterday and boy, did it backfire. I ended up permasnacking the night away. but it felt kind of good. I thought, if I"m going to eat it, I'm going to enjoy it. Happy to get back to basics today, and ready for the likely urge to repeat the missteps yesterday. That often happens to me, but I know what's going on, so I just ignore the urges.

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:38 am

You have a great attitude oolala and really seem to get that mistakes are just opportunities to learn. Btw, I read your testimonial today & found it very inspiring. Your journey with dieting & eating very much mirrors my own. I hope to be where you are now in 2 years!

Linda

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:39 pm

Had a good two days. Was happy to be able to take advantage of a free lunch provided by a 403b rep at work! Later just added an extra piece of fruit to my lunch to make dinner! Gawd, I love nectarines.

Has some time yesterday waiting for my car to be looked at and visited a couple of thrift stores. Bought two pairs of pants, one for now and one pair of black washable suede for winter. Both size 8. I guess I am really not a size 12 anymore ( or a 16/18, where I started). But sizes vary so much. I have bigger sizes of some clothes that I still wear because they fit right. It's just a manufacturer's number.

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:54 am

Yay oolala! Things sound like they're continuing to go smoothly. I know clothes run differently depending on the designer but I would be thrilled to fit in a size 8 of anything at this point!

I'm wearing the same size you did when you started so you are really an inspiration for me!

Have a great weekend!

Linda

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:04 pm

After my pants win, a little deflation.

Sometimes I get tired of feeling like I have to create my own culture to live this life. I'm not actually tempted to leave it by others' input, but I feel like a fish out of water in other ways, so this just adds to it. I went to a birthday dinner with 5 other people and one of them was a man about 30 who didn't eat anything! Previously, he started lifting weights and fell for the idea that he had to eat a lot, so he did put on muscle but also fat. So now he eats 5 times a day and "has to" very carefully control the macronutrients, yada yada. To his credit, he didn't talk about it until others pressed him. Later in the conversation, he said that he could really eat a lot, including FIVE of the personal pizzas served at this restaurant. (Not a chain.) BTW, three os us split two of the pizzas and we didn't finish them. But the two other men who split with me are pretty short. One of his friends reported that he had seen the dieter eat a 6-and-6= six hamburger patties and six slices of cheese on a burger bun at In-and-Out. I could be wrong, but I just saw continued years of careening between restriction and gorging for this young man. Once again, he was lauding his quick results from the most recent diet. Another man I knew at the table has evolved into a mostly vegan eater, but his approach has been closer to No S in that he never did anything drastic, but slowly changed this and that. He was several inches taller than the dieter, and I could tell he was surprised at how much the young man said he "could" eat. I've known thin men who truly weren't gorging when they ate large amounts. They really were hungry without that much food, at least some of the time.

I guess I might also have to quit reading the profiles of most maintainers on Sparkpeople,too. I'm on that team and get emails of the anniversary acknowledgements of maintainers there. Got one this morning of a woman who is 5'9" and maintains at 5 lbs. less than I do- at 5'6". YEARS after her initial efforts and some ups and downs, she still tracks all her food/exercise and weighs every day. I have to remind myself that if that's what it takes, forget it. She is in the 4%-ile of weight for her same age/height peers. It bothers the hell out of me that people of that low a weight are held up as models to aspire to. She's at a BMI of 20.7. Wasn't she thin enough at 22.7? Plus she runs and does this and that. Yes, I guess I'm a bit jealous, but I just have to rest on my own foundation. IF she likes doing all that for the fun of it, great for her. But I resent thinking that's how I have to live to be a maintainer. Aaargh! this body image crap!

But I'll feel differently in a few hours. Oh, the mind.

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:08 pm

Oh sorry! I think it's hard for us to let go of the perfect body dream. The one where the moment we step on the scale and see that magic number, everything else magically falls into place and our lives are wonderful & perfect just like all those skinny people on tv right?

Logically we know it doesn't work like that but certain people can trigger the urge to go after the dream again. It's so alluring at times but I know when I was a size 4, I was not any happier than I am now. In fact I was pretty much a mess. I remember my sister complimenting me on how good I looked. She'd always called me "fat" like it was a dirty word my whole life.

At that moment I realized how shallow she really was and stopped caring what she thought. Here I was a total mess (ill spare you the details) and all she could see was that I was skinny. That's all that mattered to her. Ugh!

Anyway, a lot of skinny people live a tortured existence secretly hating their bodies as much as any fat person. Happiness is an inside job and no amount of weight loss is going to fix everything. On the other hand, fixing all the angst that comes from disordered eating and reaching a comfortable healthy weight is huge and you should be so proud of your accomplishments. Those people have most likely not achieved peace with food & will continue the nightmare that comes with that struggle & probably have weight fluctuations as well.

I really avoid weight loss/diet discussions of any kind. When girlfriends bring it up, I always change the subject. It's too much of a trigger for me. I would definitely get of spark people & anything else that isn't supporting your new lifestyle.

Don't know if that helps at all but hope you're feeling better and having a nice weekend.

Linda

Kittykat150 · Post by **Kittykat150** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:03 pm

Oolala,
Size 8 is my dream size. Size 12 was my dream size when I was a size 16. Everything is relative. I felt okay when I got dressed in my size 10 white pants and left for the mall today. But then I saw my reflection in a store window and thought I looked middle aged and frumpy. It's ridiculous, this up and down mental torture about looks and weight and sizes. I was the same person all day, inside and out, the roller coaster was all in my head. It is self-torture.
I had to take a breath and just feel okay in my healthy body for a minute to snap out of it. You too, Oolala. Get it out of your head. Your thoughts are habits too. Strong habits. I, for one, need to change my thoughts as much, if not more than my eating habits.
Peace,
Kat

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:07 pm

Thank you, ladies! Those were exactly the words I needed to hear...er, read.

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:42 pm

Glad you're feeling better about things!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:57 am

Experimented with waiting until the nutrition break at 10:20 at school before having anything, even coffee. It was a little hard, but felt good to wait until I felt some hunger, which I don't always feel earlier. I ate the fruit and a little cottage cheese I would have had at lunch for that break, so my lunch was a little smaller, too. Because of some tentative plans, I ended up waiting longer for dinner, too, which had me disappointingly antsy, but I made it. I feel a little victorious. I don't plan to push this every day, but I think I need to experiment a little. I want to feel I can wait a bit if I need to.

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:03 pm

oolala, As said, it is all relative. There are miserable people at size two and size twenty-two.

I don't really have a problem with someone being overly attentive (obsessing is another word I suppose) about their food tracking, weighing, etc. if that is what keeps them going. I weigh twice a day, have since I was a teenager who certainly didn't have a weight problem - I weighed 98 pounds when I got married

It is just habit, like brushing my teeth. I also have graphed it for the past six years or so on another board, very interesting to see that the only time my weight plummetted (to 132), way too low for me was when my husband was critically ill AND I threw myself into this NO S plan for the first time.

Now, if those people are overly critical of others who choose to live differently, that is a problem.

I don't really go by BMI as I have a lot of muscle mass from decades of exercise.

Now I am happily settled at 145, have been for a long, long time. Varies by four or five pounds in a given day but that doesn't bother me because I know I have not eaten 3500 calories times four or five so it is just water weight, too much sodium, etc. and will be gone the next morning.

Way to go on the size eight pants, sounds perfect to me! I have always loved discussing health/fitness with you.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:06 pm

I'm not being 100% compliant, but feel rather okay about it. If I get pretty full, it's usually from veggies, though getting used to too much volume can be its own problem. (Competitive eaters train by drinking water to increase the volume of their stomach, not eating a lot. But they don't do it all the time, so their eating volume doesn't increase permanently.)

I just read this morning that part of the Mediterranean "diet" is "fostering a deep appreciation for the pleasures of healthy eating and delicious food." http://www.healthcentral.com/alzheimers ... easingly/2

I know bingers worry about how much they think about food, but healthy slim cultures often think about food a lot, too. It's just not junk food!

But I also read sometime that the places the lifestyle was based on has increased in weight and health problems now that they have access to manufactured foods and don't have to physically work as hard. So you don't have to be damaged emotionally to overeat. Proximity to highly palatable food is enough for most people.

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:31 pm

Sorry to jump in here but wanted to say I don't think there's anything wrong with weighing oneself or charting weight or thinking a lot about food as long as its enjoyable!

I don't weigh myself because I know it will completely emotionally derail me at this point. I do think about food a lot now in a positive way. I love to cook & read cookbooks and try interesting restaurants. I think our culture has too much shame regarding taking pleasure in eating. Most other cultures Japanese, Italian, French see enjoyment in food as a very important part of life.

The kind of obsessing over food that's not good IMO is all this worrying & angst over food avoidance & body hatred. This comes from traditional dieting more than any major overriding emotional issues again IMO.

The best thing about NoS for me is the safety from having regular , consistent meals. Before I never knew if my last meal would be my LAST meal so there was a lot of angst & motivation to overeat. Also having certain times when I eat or don't help makes it so I can stop constantly wonder if I should eat or not eat. Same with 2nds rule. I don't have to wonder if I should have more. So basically it takes away all the bad obsessing & leaves room for he good parts of food enjoyment.

I think that we forget in this culture of plenty that food is life. It's natural to have food as an important part of our life because without it nothing else literally would matter!

Sorry to hijack your thread oolala, but just felt I really needed to make this point!

Have a great weekend!!

Linda

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:51 pm

Best hijack ever!

The part about the security of knowing when I am going to eat is subtle but so important, I think. When I tried IE, I didn't have the patience to wait long enough because it seemed like I might have to wait way too long. With No S, I have actually been able on some occasions to wait much longer than I would have been able to make myself on IE. And was the better for it, especially because the one-plate rule helps limit overreacting to intense hunger. (And I've added the slow eating practice of most slim cultures.)

I support anyone who is charting body data and not having the whole day's mood determined by the results. I just think for most wannabe weight losers, especially ones who've tried many times unsuccessfully to reduce their eating, that's pretty hard to pull off because they start off with a deep belief that they as a person are unacceptable because of their weight. If the number isn't right, the whole self is judged. It's what one of my friends calls unnecessary and unproductive suffering!

I could have done without dinner last night. I ate light because I wasn't really hungry, but it would have been pretty easy to skip because I was busy. Weekends are more likely to be times I can have a 16-hour fast, as I've been experimenting with.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:17 pm

oolala53 wrote:
I just read this morning that part of the Mediterranean "diet" is "fostering a deep appreciation for the pleasures of healthy eating and delicious food." http://www.healthcentral.com/alzheimers ... easingly/2

I would argue that those in the Mediterranean traditionally haven't given a thought to whether or not what they eat is healthy, at least not in the way we think about it these days. People only think about their food being healthy when they are unhealthy. Delicious they think about all the time.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:24 pm

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:36 am

Thx oolala for not minding my rant.

I do agree with you about the weighing.

And Wosnes so true!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:19 pm

I think I finally faced a situation that could be one that derails people.

I asked a friend if he wanted to watch Monday night football at my house and when he was almost there, discovered that it is now on ESPN -you can tell how important this is to me, usually- which I, single woman, don't get in my cable package. We gabbed for a bit and then decided to go to a neighborhood sports bar. It was pretty much all appetizer bar food. I had an appetizer (pretty good one!) and was actually still hungry, but I didn't want anything else on the menu and didn't want to rush out of the game. So I ate some fruit when I got home, which I felt okay about, calling it virtual plating, but then I kept picking. I know I never would have done that if we had stayed in and I had made us a plate of all things I wanted!

This kind of thing doesn't come up for me much. I see now how easy it is to get thrown.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:08 pm

I posted this on the testimonial thread.

Did my quarterly weigh-in. I'm down from BMI 24.4 at my last weigh-in to 23.8. It's a small change in weight, but feels like more. My original thought on No S in 2010 was that I MIGHT get to a size 10, but bought size 8 pants a few weeks ago. And I'm turning 60 in 5 days. Not bad to weigh about what I weighed when I graduated from high school.

So, I've lost 22% of my weight, or about 42 lbs. in 44 months. A little over one more year to go before the relapse rate drops to 27%. Yee haw.

jw · Post by jw » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:38 pm

I can't even begin to say how impressive that is. Congratulations x 100, and thank you for the ongoing inspiration!

Tessytwinkle · Post by **Tessytwinkle** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:40 pm

Ooolala that is totally awesome. I am so impressed. It gives me so much hope. I am 59 at the start of my journey and did not think it was really possible to safely and steadily loose so much. I have read all of your testimonial posts and they have encouraged me so much. Enjoy those size 8 pants!! You are a very positive role model for me and everyone else. Wow!!!!!
Tessytwinkle

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:10 am

Yay oolala that's so amazing! Very inspiring & gives me hope that this can work for me too!

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:30 pm

Amazing indeed. Congrats

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:11 am

Ok, I'm a bit of a broken record these days, but I was looking up in the top of my closet for a lapa I was going to wear for a dance class party when I came across a kind of Indian dress (can't think of the name right now) that Punjabi women wear that I had bought on a trip to India in 1983. I've gotten rid of a lot of clothes in my life but I never gave this away despite the fact that I thought I could never wear it again. Not sure I will have a place to wear it TO, but it does fit. huh.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:26 am

My second week day off.

WEll, isn't it just amazing how much flexibility one can lose in 20 years. I went to my first yoga class in 20 years (might be my last; I went mostly to see a couple of old friends, and I don't usually have the time off). Wow, I was tighter than a beginner! Of course, it made me think I should be doing it. But I have to keep priorities in mind. There are other things I've thought I should be doing that have been on my mind for longer. I don't want to return to what's familiar just because it is familiar.

Also went to a West African dance party celebrating a fellow dancer's 50th. Man, did we sweat.

You sure can get a lot of exercise in when you don't have to go to work.

jw · Post by jw » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:28 am

Is your Punjabi outfit a salwar kameez? two piece kind of dress over balloony pants? I have some of those and wear them all summer long -- people don't even stare any more and this is small town America! Enjoy your time off work --

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:10 am

Sounds like a fantastic day! Yoga and dance. I shall plan a weekend like this.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:00 pm

Ah, me. Hunger. I had a very moderate lunch yesterday. Six o'clock rolled around and I wasn't one bit hungry, but I thought there would be cake only at the party and didn't want to arrive having had no "real" food. I was still debating whether I would declare a NWS day because I have no plan for cake tomorrow, MY birthday. I ate a carrot, a few tops of broccoli, some cottage cheese with TJ bruschetta mixed in and a small hunk of cheese. Not that we're counting, but it was very likely less than 200 calories. At the party, there was real food, so I took some for later (from the leftovers). I did eat a few spiced cashews because they were from a company that one of the dancers started about a year ago and I was curious, so that was a fail. I wasn't interested in the red velvet cupcakes. (Just don't get red velvet.)

Anyway, I just did eat the leftovers for breakfast at 7:30, but still wasn't hungry. How can I not be hungry after so little food and so many hours? And still be so interested in eating? I'm still perplexed that lack of hunger doesn't coincide with a lack of desire to eat.

BTW, after my meager dinner, I felt like I had binged. And I'm pretty full now from a chicken leg, a 1.5" stuffed mushroom and a small roll with tomato and a basil leaf, 15 grapes and 1/2 a small plum.

Going out of town for the day. I think I'll pack my lunch. Not sure what the dinner plans are, as I didn't make that clear with my host, but I can find something.

Gonna go get my 14 minutes in, full from breakfast or not.

Kittykat150 · Post by **Kittykat150** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:59 pm

Just wanted to say, Oolala, that it is very kind of you to reach out to NoSers in this forum who have not posted in a while. Your efforts are noticed and appreciated. Have a very happy birthday!
Peace,
Kat

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:17 pm

Happy Birthday oolala!! I hope you have a wonderful day & that you're hunger is back as well!!

Thanks for all your inspiring words of wisdom!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:49 pm

Going out to eat tonight for a day-after-my-birthday dinner. I wasn't particularly hungry for breakfast and was considering having only veggies- yes, weird, but that's my go-to choice when it's meal time and I'm not hungry, no matter what time of day it is. However, I threw in some defatted bacon scraps, too. Felt right. I'll have a mocha in a bit. I'm just going to be very sure to be hungry for dinner! I am considering declaring a NWS day, but I may not take it. Depends on the dessert offerings.

Gosh, it's a gorgeous day, yet I would feel fine just sitting around. Can't afford that, though.

Tessytwinkle · Post by **Tessytwinkle** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:17 pm

Oolala. Belated happy birthday. I hope you had a great night out tonight. Thank you for supporting me. It has meant such a lot.
Tessy

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:24 am

I also want to wish you a very happy birthday. This board would not be the same without you. Your advice is second to none.

NoSRocks · Post by **NoSRocks** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:55 am

Hear, hear!

MANY HAPPY RETURNS FROM ME, TOO!

Not posting on No S Board right now but still like to lurk around and read my fellow No S's posts!

Glad all is well with you

LoriLifts · Post by **LoriLifts** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:01 pm

Happy Belated B-day!
We both started No S in 2008 and are 50-something.
You're kind of like my bloggy twin!

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:39 pm

Let me add to the birthday wishes and second the comment that this board would not be the same without your insight.

jw · Post by jw » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:15 pm

Missed the party -- but Happy Birthday and welcome to the "I've earned it" decade! I second and third all the thanks for being a role model on these boards.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:27 pm

Happy Birthday Oolala! Seems like you're having the wonderful time you so thoroughly deserve. Many thanks for all your advice so far (and in advance)

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:24 pm

Thanks for all my birthday wishes. Foodwise, things are going well. As they say in Minnesota, can't complain.

I'm wishing now I hadn't signed up for a "realize your potential" workshop in Minn. this weekend, but I've paid for the airline ticket and it's not refundable. I wonder if I can go and not beat myself up for not being all excited about my life? I thought it would be good to help me get some thoughts clearer about retirement, but the prep materials are bringing up a lot of anxiety. It's hard when someone is telling you to write down your dreams, something you did many times before, and all your efforts weren't enough. Compared to those, controlling food is easy! At least for me.

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:59 pm

Oolala I totally understand your anxiety. That follow your dream stuff often ends up making me feel badly. Life doesn't always turn out how we think it should but it might still work out. I saw this quotation on Instagram today & thought of your struggle:

"Sometimes the best dreams that come true in life are the dreams you never even knew you wanted. Be ready to catch them. "

Hope your weekend turns out ok. Maybe you can skip the workshop & just take a mini vacation?

Tessytwinkle · Post by **Tessytwinkle** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:28 pm

Oolala. I read your post and smiled because you are so brilliant at helping us all to 'realise our potential' with noS!! I do hope your weekend is of some value to you. It must have struck a chord when you originally signed up. Sometimes prep materials are soooo off putting but when you get to the event it is very different. And the make up people who go to the event with you can make a real difference to the experience. So I really hope that is the case for you. I keep trying to get my thoughts clear about retirement. But it is very challenging. Hope it works for you
Tessy

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:35 pm

Funny you should say that. I've been thinking of canceling. It would mean losing the $100 deposit and possibly disappointing the woman I was going to share the hotel room and car with, but she had booked those without having anyone to share the costs with before me. I'd still go to Mnpls, though. Got a place to crash!

I've also thought to go and just work on using the workshop for my purposes, not the "seller's" POV on what should be important to me and how big my plans should be. Then let things take their course.

As Eleanor Roosevelt said, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Ah, to be 60 and still learning that one.

jw · Post by jw » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:12 pm

Well, you've bought the tickets -- go, and if the workshop is really awful, find a kindred spirit (sitting in the back of the room looking handsome and ill at ease) and play hooky, explore Minnesota!

But seriously -- you've mentioned not loving your job and you're going to retire one way or another. Maybe this is the chance to start to think of living on different terms. Some of the happiest people I know are teachers who have retired and have started creative businesses: jewelers, a stained glass artist, a yoga instructor . . . all things they did with passion over the years and then turned into second careers after they were done teaching.

Anyway, I hope the weekend turns out better than you think it will be --

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:17 pm

Ah, find another curmudgeon/malcontent! That's always a possibility.

I guess my big fear is that I will talk myself into retiring and then be sorry (financially) later after it would just be too hard to go back and after I hadn't been able to pull off all the grand schemes I left the workshop with.

And second is NOT quitting and pursuing something else in a timely way.

I think in Buddhism this might be called monkey mind.

jw · Post by jw » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Don't put yourself into a fearful state about it, oolala -- just be open. Use your No S "calm curiosity," as you like to describe it, applied to a different part of life! Things happen, opportunities appear that you only notice if you've been peeking over the edge of the current rut anyway. Play with ideas rather than hardcore planning or timelines at this point. And don't let too much agonizing over finances stall you. Dollars are in many ways like calories! I've been amazed over and over again at how things can fall into place if you just keep your focus and your energy on what you really love to do.

There's a (maybe slim) chance this workshop will prime the idea pump for you. And if not, there's always the curmudgeon!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:23 pm

Thanks for the reminders. I really do have to spend some time seeing the correlation between successful strategies on No S and other problems.

I spoke with the woman I'm going with and she calmed me down, too. She said the workshop leader often works with people who are not used to ANY accountability in their lives, so he can sound pretty hardcore. I just have to stay on my own foundation.

Tessytwinkle · Post by **Tessytwinkle** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:34 pm

Just be you Oolala, take what you need leave the rest. Many other things will enter the mix before you make any decision I am sure. Hope it goes well for you
Tessy ( May change my name to monkey mind! )

jw · Post by jw » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:28 pm

You have the best of transferable skills, oolala: zen and No S. Hope this weekend is fun!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:29 pm

You are all so sweet!

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:27 pm

So, fill us in. How was the workshop?

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:40 pm

Yes, I'm wondering too?

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:46 am

Me three - would love to hear more about it!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:15 pm

Oh, my, so long since I posted.

Well, the workshop was okay. It wasn't as difficult as I thought, but it also hasn't had much of an impact. I haven't even looked at the materials and exercises I did there again. Isn't this always the problem with workshops? They're like diets. A lot of excitement at first. Then the doing. Or not doing. Some of the ideas are percolating but I am giving no overt attention for now.

Went through a kind of relapse time of my No S habits, too. Went back to a vestige of what I consider my worst habit- eating cookie dough. And on N days, too! I felt a little bit of panic rising at times, but ironically, not while I was eating it. I actually enjoyed it. I was a bit purposeful about that. It happened a few times, and now it feels that the spell is broken. Still not back to strict N days, but things are staying steady and not escalating. They feel right now as if they are leaning towards de-escalating, although that may just be self-delusion. But the tiger is in the cage for now, even if I'm only convincing myself the door is latched.

I've moved on to trying to concentrate on my angry behaviors at work, though I can take only bits of looking at that at a time. I am so shaken by my years of failing to handle this that I read only a few pages of the present book I'm entertaining about it at a time. This doesn't just affect me, so it's harder to face.

I'm at a retreat, but have the rumblings of a cold. Dang! The hours of the events are actually quite short and I had hoped to get out in the mornings getting some exercise and also preparing a little dance for a talent show that is traditionally held on Thursday night of retreat week. But I've been holding back because I do not want to endanger my ability to participate in the "real" events. I thought last night I was almost out of danger, but this morning I woke with the start of coughing. I'm not in pain and there's no fever, but my chest feels heavy. So I sit. But this has given me more time to catch up on some of my No S and Spark interacting, which I enjoy so much.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:40 pm

That's a bummer -- colds are so intrusive, darn it. I hope it's a very mild one.

I wonder what the tiger in the cage wants? Love, I bet. Well, sending some love your way.

Have a nice Thanksgiving! I'm thankful for your inspiration and wisdom on these boards.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:09 pm

Thanks for the love!

I've said before when I accepted that I just wasn't often going to get what I wanted in the moment- that I didn't have to be able to solve the problem at hand, such as frustration with work or lack of companionship- it became much less of a reason to eat, and less important to pin down the stimulus. Plus, I think after awhile, eating out of those feelings in all kinds of contexts makes the context bring on the urge to eat even if the feelings aren't there. In other words, it's just a habit, and the vestiges are likely always there.

A minor problem, in the scheme of things. The US preoccupation with thinness can sure inspire individuals to blow this out of proportion.

Still having a lack of hunger, esp. with these mild cold symptoms. Had some soup broth, plus cottage cheese and banana anyway. Will be eating at around 1 pm at the retreat.

Aprilsparrow · Post by **Aprilsparrow** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:02 am

Colds are terrible. Getting over one myself. I was able to do the No S Diet today with a cold and feel rather proud of myself. Had a nice bowl of chicken noodle soup for lunch. Hope you feel better soon.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:49 pm

Hi Oolala,
1. I am one of those people that never seems to lose my appetite, no matter how sick! Ha!
2. Tackling your anger and other ugly emotions inside of us completely explains why you might be fighting some cookie dough demons, et al.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:18 pm

Thanks, ae. There probably is a connection, though I've been trying to handle my work anger for 17 years. Come to think of it, though, I had been doing a bit more of just sitting down and refusing to teach while I boiled inside recently, rather than yelling. And because I always have another teacher in the room, this month, I have also recently left the room and walked around the building a couple of times. I don't feel okay about using that one much. My colleague shouldn't have to shoulder the burden because I have a temper. Though I considered these better options, I realize now I am ashamed of having to use them. (I know that's not ideal, but it's the truth. I'll work on unraveling that today.) That may subtly be stimulating old patterns. But the remedy is still the same. Cookie dough solves only the "problem" of desiring a pleasurable experience. And yes, it is still a very pleasurable experience in the moment for me to eat cookie dough.

Honestly, I have found no experiences in life that are as reliable and convenient as overeating is for momentary pleasure. But I don't have to kid myself into being very sure that it still doesn't make it worth the repercussions. And it's just not that much of a sacrifice anymore.

herbsgirl · Post by **herbsgirl** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:49 pm

I have found intermittent fasting in combination with no s, to take my desire to eat cookie dough down about 80-90% . I would used to love the momentary pleasure of eating 1/3 batch of cookie dough, and like you said its so easy ect, but for some reason, the intermittent fasting has taken my sugar cravings and cravings to binge down a lot!

I do a 5-8 hour eating window every day usually

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:00 pm

I think I've realized why I've been having some wavering lately.

1) For a long time, part of what motivated me besides simple habit was liking the image of a person who had these habits. However, in the past few months, it started to feel annoying, and I let THAT feeling grow. But I'm ready to go back to admiring the habit.

There's another one but I just looked at the clock. Gotta go!

NoSnacker · Post by **NoSnacker** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:36 am

Hello..looking forward to seeing the other one!

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:45 pm

That's funny, NoSnacker, I almost posted the same thing as you.

And oolala, I'm sorry to say, I need more explanation for the first one. Do you mean a routined, disciplined persona started to seem annoying to you? Like you wanted to be more of a free spirit?

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:16 pm

Auto, it's weird. I wasn't thinking of myself as disciplined, but more as... civilized and discerning. It wasn't that I wanted to be the opposite. It was just that that persona wasn't as important anymore. Similar to when I was younger and convinced myself that I wanted to be "athletic." But it was just because I wanted to lose weight. When I got honest with myself, I didn't really want to be an athlete, and I didn't go to the opposite. I don't want to be a slug; I'd just like to be more active. And with eating... well, I'm not sure. In a way, I'd like to just have something else be as or more interesting in my life! But I may be kidding myself. I keep thinking that because I don't have a big social circle and am not married or in a significant relationship, eating or not eating takes on a bigger role, but there are people here who seem to have those things and yet eating stays in the forefront.

I went a little crazy with cookies yesterday. I had a friend over and took advantage of "because I could." It had been such a long time since I had had sweets around a really familiar person. I had also promised her dinner. I probably wouldn't have had any if I had been alone. I didn't have a lot, but I felt rather full, but mostly sipped a drink the rest of the evening, so I felt okay by bedtime. Planning on eating lightly today, but ate a bigger breakfast than I expected. Hmm.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:27 pm

Someone asked if I would say more about what I had read about French eating.

Here are rules from a pdf of The French Don't Diet Plan by Dr. William Clower. I also read his first book, The Fat Fallacy, years ago, but it didn't click until No S. And I still opt for some low-fat dairy and add walnuts or such.

â€¢ Forget Faux Foods â€“ Learn how to discern healthy, real food from processed, chemical-based fare filled with hydrogenated
oils, artificial sweeteners, preservatives, and supplements your body cannot process (I am NOT a purist on this.)
â€¢ Choose Fabulous Foods â€“ Find out how to welcome the rich, nutrient-filled foods youâ€™ve sworn off back into your regular routine â€“ including such forbidden favorites as cheese, breads, butter, and wine â€“ all of which actually help you selfregulate portions.
â€¢ Lose Your Sweet Tooth (While eating real chocolate!) â€“ by taking the Sweet Tooth Test to undo your dependency on sugar and use sensual eating to enhance weight control
â€¢ Spend More Time Enjoying Your Meal â€“ Controlling your pace is a far more effective tool than dieting for controlling your portions. Mastering this basic habit permanently controls your weight.
â€¢ Plan on Seconds â€“ Really love your food and take the time to savor the taste. Learn ways to manage portion control without constant carb-counting or stringent rules about the â€œrightâ€ amount of food (My note: he says to take a portion thinking that you could always take seconds later, but eat what you take very slowly, and then see if you really need more.)
â€¢ Donâ€™t Eat and Drink at the Same Time â€“ Sipping all drinks in smaller sizes (no Super Big Gulps here) form new drinking habits that free your body up for natural weight loss. (He reminds the reader that competitive eaters- the ones who eat 50+ hot dogs at a sitting, e.g.- train by drinking a lot of water at a time. He thinks the emphasis on drinking a lot of water is misguided.)
â€¢ Eat All You Want (Youâ€™ll Just Want Less) â€“ Learn how to measure your appetite thermometer so you can practice guiltfree incorporation of sumptuous â€œendersâ€ like cheese, chocolate, or nuts into your meals and manage between-meal hunger bouts (Enders mean a little nugget of something rich to end the meal. He doesn't say much about the ritual/habit element of that, but I think it's likely integral.)
â€¢ Return to the Family Table â€“ Eating is not just about swallowing and ingestion! Itâ€™s about sharing food with family and friends. Find out why a return to the family table is the first step toward lower weight, a healthier heart, and a better relationship with your food (not to mention your family). (Not such great news for us singles- me)
â€¢ Find Your Peace â€“ Chronic stress introduces sugar instabilities and weight gain, among other health issues. Learn techniques to get rid of mental, bodily, and emotional tension, manage stress and be at peace with the life you choose (My own readings on combatting anxiety and spiritual pursuits have been integral, or at least it seems to me.)
â€¢ You Donâ€™t Have to Go to the Gym â€“ Learn the difference between being active and exercising. Do what you love and free yourself from the confines of the gym.

Of course, I guess since Clower is a doctor, he figured out how to market a plan at his site on Mediterranean eating to the tune of about $200/year for an individual, but lower for more employees.

https://www.willclower.com/

Makes Reinhard look like a saint for not cashing in on No S any more than he has. He really deserves to be rich for it. But I think he thinks his life IS rich.

Here is a link to a list from "French Kids Eat Everything."
http://karenlebillon.com/wp-content/upl ... o-isbn.jpg

I also read years ago a series by Anne Barone, but she is more conversational and too weight-focused for me. Plus a little mean and shaming regarding being fat and eating "tasteless" American processed foods. But certain good ideas of hers pop into my head at opportune times, and she can also be fun.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:58 am

Oolala, how do you always find what percentage of same-aged peers we are lighter than? What is mine? (see my stats in signature line)

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:10 pm

When you put in your age in the box below the one for BMI alone and then calculate, in the box below that, it shows the percentile. The average (50%) for women of your age and height is 144 lbs. (I played with the weights until I got it.) Yours right now is in the 42 %ile, so you are lighter than 58% of women in your peer group. The %iles vary by age. For instance, when I started, I was lighter than only 37% of my peers, and my BMI was 30+. At your age, a BMI of only 28 would put you in the same percentile. If I had been your age when I started, I would have been heavier than 75% of women of my height instead of 68%.

But you have to be careful with this metric. It measures a whole population. Even if most people were in the normal BMI range, some would be in the heavier percentiles than others. SOMEONE has to be at the high and low ends in a group. Even if you get your BMI to the highest "normal" number, 41% of women at your age and height would be lighter than you rather than the 58% now. At my age, that same BMI makes me heavier than only 26% because people tend to gain as they age, and I lost. (I was never really slim in my teen years. I weighed the same at age 18 as now. In today's population, I'd be heavier than 53% of the other girls, so more than half of the other girls would be lighter than I was. Since the average weight has gone up, I was heavier than even more. And I wasn't overweight by BMI standards Of course models were even slimmer. Aaagh! These comparisons can drive you crazy. No wonder hardly any women in America are happy with their body. And what a ridiculous focus! Too much time on our hands.

I still think Reinhard has it right: eat moderate meals, work out consistently and moderately in a way that works with your life, and assume the body you get is the healthiest one for you even if you're heavier than others.

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:39 pm

oolala53 wrote: I still think Reinhard has it right: eat moderate meals, work out consistently and moderately in a way that works with your life, and assume the body you get is the healthiest one for you even if you're heavier than others.

I agree with that completely. I think anything else will make one a little crazy and obsessive.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:08 pm

That's a great reminder!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:24 pm

Oh, I also wanted to say I am not a purist at all about faux foods or the rest of it. I eat fast food Mexican all the time, and go to those cheap Chinese food buffets. But I don't prefer most fried foods. Nor do I prefer manufactured snack foods, so I actually don't eat them often. I find a good bread/tortilla, whole grain, or potato much more satisfying overall than Triscuits, Cheezits, or the like, even though I do like the latter. I think I eat a greater volume of vegetables than the average French person.

These are all just guidelines.

What I have observed about the French and Italians is that they eat small, grain-based breakfasts (I don't limit myself to that, but it helped me worry less about eating quite light most mornings) and have rather set ideas about what lunch and dinner are made up of, as well as the smaller portion sizes than Americans have become used to. Even though there is a vastness to their cuisine, the elements of meals are rather fixed and balanced. They don't eat a huge steak for lunch and a few bites of something else, or a huge plate of pasta alone. This ends up "controlling" calories.

NoSnacker · Post by **NoSnacker** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:37 am

Mmmmmm I'll have to check out this French/Italian eating thing...once I have my habit in place and my binging to a minimal

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:26 pm

I like this blonde! I'm not a mom and won't be perusing her site all the time, but I applaud her. http://bodyimagemovement.com.au/

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:27 am

Love it--thanks SO much for sharing!!

NoSnacker · Post by **NoSnacker** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:02 am

Yes really great to see what 99% of women that have children look like afterwards..not Fit Mom.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:03 am

I had a green day. I wasn't very hungry for any of the meals, but I felt I ate very reasonably, and I'm not willing to wait much longer between my meals or eat even less at them for now. I just have to accept this as being as good as it gets right now.

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:10 am

I always eat at mealtime whether I'm hungry or not and I eat a good amount too. Nothing wrong with it IMO.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:02 am

I see the logic in both of these approaches: wanting to wait for hunger to have a meal; but also wanting to rest in the ritual of daily mealtimes and types of food.

For my part, I feel like oolala, though. I am surprised sometimes at what a small amount of food actually fills me up for many many hours (when I'm not dealing with emotional eating issues). I think waiting to eat until we're hungry is the ultimate goal, but like so much with NoS, it may be years until someone is ready to tackle that part of our cultural eating problems.

I have contemplated the eating habits of one of my Grandmothers (one of my Grandmothers was thin)..... she always ate like a bird. I have always thought I eat like a horse.....but NoS is starting to make me question that. Maybe I would be quite thin if I didn't think I should eat so much at each meal. But, in any case, the question is moot for now. I don't want to add that kind of pressure to myself. Down the road, as I age and my metabolism slows down, I can see myself "eating like a bird". Not tonight, though! Bring on the wine and chips and dip!

Whoop Whoop!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:03 am

automatedeating said something on another thread that prompted me to write this:

I've tried telling myself that about no yelling at work. I haven't kept to it, but I have decreased it.

I'm reading a book on anger that says we can't necessarily control the thoughts and feelings of anger but we can control our actions with our mouths and our hands. So I guess that's the bright line. I'm still working through the book but that has helped. (I don't use my hands much, though I have been known to bang on a desk...) I've been able to change what I say, how I say it, or even just to stay quiet more in the last few weeks than I have in years. But it is not fun. It's all I can do sometimes not to burst into tears instead. And I can tell you for sure that getting angry in front of teenagers is easier for them to handle than to see a teacher cry.

I also saw finally that I was perseverating on the problems between classes, too. I would walk out of a room furious with the last thing that had happened or a bad interaction and it would go through my mind over and over. This after 7 years of Zen! Lately I've been practicing acknowledging the disturbing thoughts but also allowing myself to pay attention to just walking, the air temperature, the trees, the grass, the ground. I also sometimes purposely think other thoughts, but I'm careful with that, as it can backfire later.

There are some things these techniques will not be able to change all that's uncomfortable about the job, but I'm not ready to quit, so I don't give up trying to make it more livable.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:13 am

auto, our postings must have crossed.

For years on No S, all I had to do on N days to feel hunger was wait for my meals. Then the hunger started to go away. As I said, hunger was a real motivator and reward for a long time. It made me feel I was in touch. So I'm trying to learn how to live without it. I miss feeling in touch, but I'm honestly not willing to change much more to regain that right now. Oh, well.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:26 am

I remember you mentioning you have generalized anxiety. Do you take any medications for that? I am so not normally a proponent of them, but I know you work your tail off for moderation and balance, all that good stuff, so perhaps a nice anti-anxiety medication would be perfect until you can retire!!! I am sure it would help you deal with all those teenagers with less angst.

And the not-getting-hungry thing. That is me too! Weirdly, I also have times when I truly am super hungry, but I HATE that feeling of not being hungry for meals. It seems the best solution will eventually be to eat tiny amounts of delicious food (sounds very French, right?!): that's what my thin Grandma did. She was very picky about her food, right up to the end.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:42 pm

Thanks for the ideas!

Maybe I'll get very picky at some point. With all due respect to your grandmother, if she was eating very little and always longing to eat more, it's not something I aspire to. When I was bingeing, I had to come to term with the fact that I had the desire to eat even when I wasn't hungry, and I had to accept it and get past it. Truth was, though it was more unpleasant to binge, I was still giving up some -in-the-moment pleasure, but it was worth the trade off. In fact, my overall pleasure increased. Now I've lost some of it again, and I haven't found the tradeoff. I guess year 5 will be a year of new discoveries. Maybe it will just reach a point of acceptance that this is as good as it gets for now.

I resisted "mental health" meds for nearly 20 years, but finally saw that my other tactics left me worse off than ever. I was on them for 4 years, off for a few, and back on them for years now. I will at times forget to take them and then experience a couple of particularly tough days- then realize, oh, I haven't take my meds.

However, I originally started taking them because of poor sleep, which I suffered from for about 15 years up until this last year. The prescription I take helps to balance serotonin. But something else must have shifted because I have many nights I get 6 straight hours, which is like a miracle to me. Yet, that hasn't been enough to keep other things balanced. I like to think some day I won't need them, but I have to be realistic now.

I'm going to be trying a "booster" pill when I go back to work, but I don't know what will happen after that because I changed insurance companies and won't be able to use my previous doctor. Once I get the official paperwork, I'll petition to have my records sent. Then I'll have to see someone new and I'll report to him/her on the new regime.

I'm also always working on the problem from other angles. To some degree, just being tired of the reaction has helped me accept some shifts, just as being tired of the effects of overeating contributed to my being able to push through to implement No S. Nothing like synergy.

It's helped in a way that California is so committed to what is called the Common Core. They are asking for so much from students that I am finally throwing up my hands. I used to believe that if I could just be the kind of teacher to get the kids to cooperate, that the kids could meet the old standards reasonably well. Now, I don't believe that at all. When the state starts testing kids, they are either going to find out that an awful lot of them can't meet the standards by a long shot, or the state will lower the standard so far when they see the results that it will just be a huge joke. I see it even now. We'll be given a rubric or set of elements to evaluate an essay by that either forces us to give a decent score to what is actually a pretty shoddy piece of work, or a rather poor score to what actually shows some better thinking skills.

But I don't know what all the right answers are. I don't think we can even agree what the difference is between realism and defeatism.

I guess people without anxiety disorder don't even worry about such things! But I'm not sure that makes them right...

middleager · Post by **middleager** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:52 pm

I know a decent amount of regular exercise has helped my mood and my sleep quite a bit.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:22 pm

On behalf of all parents THANK you for all your hard work, even though it seems much too hard on you. Teachers have it so hard, I could never do it. And with all the extra pressures you mention with testing, etc., it sounds like so much of the potential reward and fun is taken out of the profession.

I wish you sanity until you can do something you love. You are a very helpful teacher here on these boards!!

LoriLifts · Post by **LoriLifts** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:05 pm

Your posts are so eloquent, I should have guessed you're a teacher!

Here's wishing you a Happy, Healthy, No S 2014!

jw · Post by jw » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:53 pm

Just wandered over to wish you a Happy New Year, oolala -- I hope 2014 is a great year for you! Thanks for all your amazing insights and support here on the boards.