oolala53

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

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middleager
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Post by middleager » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:54 pm

Thanks for all your support oolala!
Longest run so far: 22 days

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Post by Diligence » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:18 am

A belated Happy No S Anniversary to you, oolala! Thank you for the support you offer us here on the fora. You're a blessing to us. :D

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Post by oolala53 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:07 am

I'm very torn about the value of shame in adopting moderate eating. Is it possible to feel shame without its signifying a damaging loss in self-respect?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 200414.htm

I feel I used shame and "weightism" against myself for years without its prompting me to change my eating behaviors. And since then, results seem to show that feeling shame over one's eating often backfires. My own theory is that it is hard to cooperate in a meaningful way with someone whom you feel doesn't respect you. So if we don't respect ourselves in spite of our eating shortcomings, it will be very hard to endure the difficult feelings we will need to to reduce our eating.

Think of a child. A child wants to please her parent and feels bad if Mommy is disappointed in her. She believes most of the time that Mommy loves her and approves of her. When Mommy is disappointed in her, she tries to get Mommy's approval back. If that child starts getting the sense at some point that she will never get Mommy's approval, or that Mommy basically disapproves of her, she will likely stop cooperating at all with what Mommy wants. Plus, she won't be happy because it will be very hard for a child to get satisfaction approving of herself.

This is a crude and imperfect metaphoric story, but I'd bet it's central. I think a difference is that adults CAN get some satisfaction from approving of themselves.

So, what motivation can we use to change our behaviors? Is it possible to have just the right degree of shame that will spur us without destroying us? Of can we rationally choose to change a behavior such as overeating with no need of shaming disapproval?

It really seems that Reinhard's short discussion of shame in the book was actually an exception to how he handles most things in his program. Most of the time, he's rather matter-of-fact about it. We overeat. Here's a relatively simple way to reduce eating. Don't freak about it. Resolve to do it, keep track, reward yourself (with green) and just keep going when you fail. Do as little getting upset with yourself as possible.

I'm fond of saying to the members of Living Binge Free on Spark: be tough-not mean- on yourself BEFORE you binge and gentle afterwards.

I often feel these ideas on the edge of applying to other areas of my life as well, but it's almost always when I gotta go! True now, too.

Probably nothing new. Just the first time I'm thinking of it and ready to move forward with it.

Off to the laundromat to wash comforter and rug. Too late to dry outside today but it can wait overnight and sunny San Diego will do the rest. Don't hate me because it's warm here! Believe it or not, we pay a price.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:40 am

I'm sure I'll be the first of many that completely agrees with you on this one. Shame is not only NOT a motivator, it actually causes people to do the very thing they hate. There is a wealth of psychological evidence about this topic, and the evidence just keeps piling up: want self-sabotage? Use shame as a tool. One book I read not too long ago that goes over it in a quick and practical way is: The Willpower Instinct by Kelly McGonigal

I believe that really what Reinhard calls "shame" in his book is actually group peer pressure, which is different. We want to do what everybody else is doing, and so in front of others we'll comply. Just speculation here, but Reinhard seems quite free of shame, so he probably thinks those two things are similar. He must have had great parents!! :lol: The shamed person will be the likely one to then go home and binge in private, making sure no one sees him or her. I believe that perhaps the person that has the greatest shame is often the one that eats the most carefully in public. The book Hungry by Allen Zadoff (have you read that? It is super fast and super mind-boggling) completely reinforced this idea of mine.

There's another book I read a couple years ago, that was really beautiful and impactful for me at a cathartic time in my life. It is called Shame and Grace, by Lewis Smedes. He has a religious slant, but as I recall, it's not cloying, and I think could possibly be read by people of various beliefs. If that turns out to be wrong, I apologize in advance.

I remember there was a thread about this shame thing on the general board, and I didn't get around to posting on that, so I'm very glad you've brought it up again here on your own thread.
Last edited by automatedeating on Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:49 am

And on related shame topic, I wonder if journaling food could be the absolute most difficult if someone has a lot of shame associated with their eating. i'm sure there's lots of other reasons why someone wouldn't journal what they eat (avoiding diet head, just enjoying the simplicity of not counting, or not wanting to add another thing "to do", etc), but perhaps shame is a big one. I hesitated to bring up this idea, so if I'm way off here, I hope everyone goes easy on me. Just brain-storming right now.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
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Post by oolala53 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:06 am

I think you've got a point. People can have different reactions to the scale, so food records can be the same. I do my best, but I have never recorded what I've eaten during a binge. Perhaps that has delayed my recovery, but we'll never know now. I do see that trying to help someone keep records and let go of their self-criticism, but rather just try to regard the journal as data, would be useful, but I think it would be very difficult, esp, in this culture of such high expectations for appearance and the behaviors to support thinness. Plus dealing with the "morality" of being thin; if you aren't willing to adhere to to perfect eating to support being thin, you don't deserve to be forgiven, etc.

Dang, this can be a messy issue.

I'm sure it's one of the major reasons it seems intractable. If people could just be rational about it- hey, here is when I'm overeating, I'll make efforts to reduce it while not expecting t get it right for a year or two, in the meantime, I'll respect myself and try to have fun in my life- oh, how much more progress could be made!

I'd better wake up now.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:42 am

I feel like I should clarify something: I don't think that anyone ought to feel like they should journal their eating. I do think something can be learned by how we feel about the idea of writing it down. Hopefully that makes sense.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by oolala53 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:01 pm

I thought you were saying they probably SHOULDN'T journal, if it was going to just make them feel more ashamed.

It just doesn't fit my image of how I want to live my life. If it means I weigh more, so be it.

Besides, I can always change my mind.

I just know that when I was the thinnest of my adult life, I was mostly eating meals, and simply toughing out the time in between them, when needed. There were plenty of times it wasn't needed because I was either getting more involved in my interests and having fun, or it just wasn't that hard for a lot of the time. I wasn't overtly tracking things.

However, I know at the time that I believed that it should get and stay easy. I felt I shouldn't have to keep having to ignore urges, and that I should be able to forget about food in between eating events. I don't expect that anymore.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:42 pm

I thought you were saying they probably SHOULDN'T journal, if it was going to just make them feel more ashamed.
Yes, this is what I meant. Golly, I am unable to put a coherent sentence together sometimes. :)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:14 am

Just wanted to chime in on the shame issue real briefly. I think shame is a good tool when someone is in denial to kind of shock them into reality but I don't think it's a good long term motivator.

Joy is a much better long term motivator than shame IMO. Think about all the joyless diets we've given up. Yet many of us have been able to stick to NoS. Why? For me it's because it's so pleasurable to eat this way. I believe we're hard wired to seek out happiness and therefore shame has a very limited use.

Just my thoughts!

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by oolala53 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:42 am

Good distinction.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by chani8 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:34 pm

You're really getting into some deep stuff here.

I work very hard on myself to let go of shame, and now that you're discussing this, I feel I can celebrate a bit of a victory, in that, I do log my binges. I recall my first struggle with logging a binge day and how I decided that I just had to be honest despite how embarrassing it was. FTR, I log everything I eat on MyFitnessPal.com where there are people looking at my food diary daily.

I don't know about you all, but I'd never shame anyone else for overeating, so why would I shame myself? And why, really, is there shame about it. Rather, the feeling should be frustration that the pleasure center (addict part) of our brains won over our self-control, that's all. Some foods (namely sweets) have been shown to create a real neuro chemical reaction. I think that sometimes just the act of eating elicits enough pleasure to make it hard to stop. So sometimes we're determined enough to have self-control, and other times, well, it's just.so.hard.

When I exercise enough, I feel tough, and that gives me more determination and strength to overcome overeating.
`Chani8
I'm a 44yo, married, Jewish, mother, and foster mom, living in Israel. I eat low carb, count calories, eat 'clean', love kosher, and live primal. I workout impulsively. I'm new to the No S Diet and I love it!

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:18 pm

Totally agree chani. Also, when I have those little feeling fat attacks, the first thing I feel like doing is eating because it's so comforting. So on a practical level it's problematic as well.

Okay sorry oolala you can have your thread back now! :)
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
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Post by jw » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:53 pm

"Joy is a much better long term motivator than shame IMO"

Yes! Well-said, Linda! We can defer pleasure -- that's part of being a grown up -- but we can't leave it out of the equation permanently, or what kind of life are we giving ourselves? Telling ourselves we are "bad" for doing something that feels good just breeds resentment and rebellion in the end.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by oolala53 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:06 pm

I'm VERY glad for the discussion!

I brought it up because Reinhard does say in his book that shame IS a possible good motivator. Because I'm considering starting a local real-time support group for No S, I'm trying to figure out how to help counteract that, as I can't promote the program and not have people read the book! I brought up to him a few years ago the possibiliy of his teaming with a specialist in eating disorders/emotional eating for for a sequel to No S specifically for emotional eating, as he admitted before that he knows nothing about it and tells people NOT to use No S to solve their problems. He says sugar and emotional eating just didn't seem to be his problem.

One thing I"m pretty sure of: if emotional eating is an eater's problem, she is probably using a ton of shame to try to control herself, with terrible results. But No S is SO perfect as an eating plan for such people! It gives them an eating foundation to use AS they deal with the emotional side of things.

I don't start a thread on it on the main board because I don't want to seem as if I'm criticizing Reinhard. I've even had people seem a bit peeved at some of my anti-shame statements because they cite how Reinhard himself says in the book that shame is underrated. The paradox is that I have never ever read his shaming any individual on this board, even people whom others might say, Good God, are you kidding? Get real! And he is very much in favor of being very matter-of-fact about failure. That's a sign right there that the guy doesn't have an emotional eater's angst, at least about eating.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:22 pm

jw, our posts must have crossed in cyberspace.

I think you'll see (if you are even interested at looking at my previous too-copious posts) that I have often used what I called vitality as the motivator for moderate eating. And alternatively, I've advocated using the French reason for eating: good ol' pleasure! Joy has definitely been part of the mix! I felt a lot of joy around No S for several years. There has been a breakdown in that this last year or so, but I think it is all part of the process. It may seem like a contradiction but I am seeing how joy can be a backdrop in my life even when I feel absolutely crappy in any present moment! No S let me see it.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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Post by jw » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:35 pm

"I am seeing how joy can be a backdrop in my life even when I feel absolutely crappy in any present moment."

That is an amazing achievement, oolala! If you can pass on that secret, the people in your support group will be lucky indeed! Re: shame -- I am leaning toward automated's idea, that when Reinhard uses the word shame, he may be talking about something related that is more social and not quite so intense -- embarrassment, maybe, or the inner reflex that says, don't grab ten cookies when there are only a dozen on the plate. Shame is that internalized, self-berating voice that operates in solitude and makes you want to hide what you've done. Your statement that Reinhard doesn't really understand emotional eating (by his own admission) confirms that.
Since you do understand emotional eating and since the need exists, wouldn't it be great if you could bring together a variety of resources -- No S to provide a structure plus some of the work on emotional eating to provide insight into the whys of an eating disorder -- in other words, not just one text as a bible, but the salient parts of several different approaches. You seem to have a considerable library of research you could bring to bear. Maybe you could even work with a like-minded doc or a holistic practice -- or market it through continuing ed somewhere? It would provide a real service!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by automatedeating » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:12 am

oolala, I think you should type up your own materials as well for the group. Make a workbook that your participants complete a little of each week, or even at points during the meetings.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by oolala53 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:26 am

So kind!

I feel I need some credibility before I try to find someone to work with. I'm loosely modeling myself on Geneen Roth's beginnings. I don't know all the details of how she started- she may have changed $ from the very beginning. But I do know in the beginning she had a weekly support group in Santa Cruz, apparently in the years not long after I graduated from the UC there. If I tell the truth, I wouldn't mind writing a book and having her success, but I don't know if I have it in me to be organized and persistent enough for that. I'm not sure it's the best use of my time, as I have other pursuits as well.

One problem I'm getting more comfortable with is combatting the "everyone's different" pronouncement that can be used to turn the discussion towards what I call the minutaie- carbs and organics and plate size, etc. All fine for some, but not what I can help with because I see them as almost inconsequential. I am not going to offer this as a way to lose weight at all. In fact, that discussion will be banned! Weight loss will not be the crucial evidence, even though I'll probably be listened to by some ONLY because I've lost weight. I'm not even sure what the criterion for success will be. I guess, as Gov. Jerry Brown said when asked during his first campaign what his platform was, it will emerge. But I think I can help people implement No S.

The value of No S to me is that its mix of structure and freedom have been a context for me to put emotional eating in its place. It has not been about eliminitating it completely. Very few eating disorder therapists aim for that; the real ones are too realistic for that, just as most obesity experts don't ask their patients to get to a normal, or even an overweight, BMI range. The don't shoot for the stars. They're content with the stratosphere.

No S has allowed me to continue to get more permissive in "eating for the wrong reasons" and finding out it doesn't necessarily lead me to do more of it. I just don't think I could have gotten here without the structure on N days, though.

I think it's true that if someone can get really dispassionate about her efforts, she could even follow just about any reasonable "diet" and even some semi- nonreasonable ones, have them "work" and be sustainable. But it's too late for me to be a specialist in any of them because I just can't muster the interest!

No S I think solves many more problems than it creates! I just realized that. It's just amazing to me that it has not been taken up and examined by some university for a long term study. They spend their time and money looking at what might be "healthier" but will not ultimately be sustainable.

I'm just talking to myself now.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:35 am

auto, our posts crossed, too.

Regarding having some materials for the group, I know that's one of the reasons I've been hanging back. I do think it will be necessary to have some extra guidelines. I've actually been trying to come up with a list of statements similar to the list that is always read at the beginning of AA meetings. It's a good idea to possibly have other materials to offer as well. I hope I don't take another 4 years to get those done!
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:13 am

On a (kind of) side note, I think I made a reference to a book I was reading recently that was helping me with some of my work issues and someone asked me the name of it. I can't find the question or my answer if I made one, so I'll just tell anyone who's interested that the book is called The Happiness Trap and it's based on what's called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. Interestingly, ACT arose from the field of linguistics, but it certainly dovetails some of the tactics alluded to by Zen practioners and masters of some other forms of Eastern meditative practices. For those who don't know of these things, in some Eastern traditions, there can a lot of purposeful manipulation of the attention and the thoughts, some dwelling on present moment phenomena, some on particular supposed beneficial images, and others contemplating spiritual ideals, such as the Heart Sutra, to name a few. A minority, lesser known in the West, advocate trying to align with a wider sense of awareness that is not malleable in the same sense that what is often called "attention" is. This latter type is the kind I have become interested in and which ACT dovetails, ironically. I don't want to claim that I'm a poster child for any of this because from the outside, I look like a failure! I'm not kidding when I say that plenty of people I interact with think that I'm rather difficult, and wouldn't take my word on anything that has to do with alleviating anxiety! I just know from inside that some things are better since I've been incorporating these things in my life.

Anyway, on to the project I've been avoiding all afternoon.
Last edited by oolala53 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

jw
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Post by jw » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:28 am

You have tons of cred here, oolala -- get testimonials from some of us when you're ready to take the next step! I love automated's idea of generating your own materials, too.

The Happiness Trap sounds interesting. I will look for it.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by jw » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:26 pm

It occurs to me also -- you will get the cred by doing, just as you have here. If you start your support group now, you won't need to make an income at it, and you will build the cred to write the book. Then when you do need to make an income, you will have laid the groundwork. You can't decide whether you will be a big success like Geneen Roth -- but you can decide to write the book!

There was a guy named Abravamel (sp?) who wrote a really quite interesting diet book based on body types back in the 90's. It took off -- he did all the things diet gurus do, set up a webpage and forum, got featured in the tabloids, made some moves toward franchising, success! Then at some point he got fed up and disappeared (to a tropical island, if I remember correctly!) Years later, his devotees were still writing to each other online, fretting about minutiae and trying to find answers. If he had started with the people, as you are doing, he might not have gone off the rails (if that's what he did -- I don't really know). A little footnote in the annals of weight loss support!

Anyway -- if you write a journal of learning moderation, you already have the basics right here in your pages on the forum. Can't wait to see where you take this!

*edit -- I just googled AbraveNel -- I guess he ran a wildly successful so-called Skinny School in the 70's and 80's, wrote the book then, reissued it in the 90's -- I became aware of it in the 00's, at which point he had already retired, leaving behind followers who still wanted more and more details. So he didn't go off the rails -- he just completed a successful career arc!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by oolala53 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:30 pm

I was very influenced by Aravanel back when! I thought at first that I was a G-type, but later I realized that I have the shoulders at least of a T-type. It is partly what has kept me from ever seriously going vegetarian, though I appreciate it and actually wish it came a little more naturally to me. (He didn't think either of those types should be vegetarian. Only the A-type, who are rather stocky, peasant types or football players. Ironic, no?)

I didn't know he had a website. Lord, I was doing his stuff long before I ever even considered buying a computer.

And his system gave me plenty to obsess over! I think sometimes we have to be ready to let go of the complexity! I remember once after a few diets concluding that it was basically like having a part-time job because I had to spend so much time rereading the stuff to indoctrinate myself. But t some degree, we might need that a bit anyway because moderate, sane eating is not the cultural norm, and it is like creating our own culture in our minds and daily tasks to adopt it.

Then again, I never used habitcal. perhaps if I had just marked my reds and greens and tried to NOT think about it the rest of time, it all would have happened anyway.

But I just couldn't figure out what other world problem I was going to solve instead. :shock:
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1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
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Post by jw » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:39 am

I can't for the life of me figure out from that post what my point was -- but going for simplicity and getting away from all the hairsplitting was the gist of it!

So Abravanel was pretty well known in his day! I was a T, too. The body type stuff was interesting -- all the Type books (blood type, body type) typed me for the same kind of food, meat and veg, which is fortunate, because I like those things and feel good when I eat that way. And there was a time when I loved the intricacies and the self-brainwashing! Now, I've had enough, I just quote El Fug and get to eat bread now and then!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by oolala53 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:48 am

Gawd, yes, the hairsplitting! How many angels on the head of a pin!

Put the food on a plate and eat it, for pity's sake!

On my other board, because of how it's set up, links to other members' blogs scroll my automatically. One woman who is as much of a zealot of paleo type, 70% fat diet as I am of No S, actually wrote a long blog about the dangers of vegetables and fruit! I can't refute her experience, in that she says she experiences NO desire for her former binge foods now that she has sworn off sugar, flour, legumes, yada yada yada. But now she lives her life according to her blood tests! and doesn't see one bit what an elitist approach that is.

I love the democracy of No S! People at the poverty level could follow it, if they chose. You can follow it taking a trip in a truck on a dirt road in India!

I try NOT to look at her blogs, but sometimes, well, it's like sugar used to work on me.
Last edited by oolala53 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by NoSnacker » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:51 am

Did I hear book :) ?? Put me on the waiting list for the first copy.....

When I read these posts it is like reading stuff from scholars!
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Post by jw » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:17 pm

I had not thought of that aspect, oolala -- but yes, No S is very democratic! And paleo is really a pretty expensive lifestyle if you do it right -- have you priced grass-fed beef lately?! :lol:
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by oolala53 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:15 pm

We're fringe scholars here. Just couldn't quite convince ourselves it was worth it to get the Ph.D.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by oolala53 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:47 pm

Speaking of lofty/hufalutin' thinking, I started to post this on the main board on the food journals thread, but changed my mind. The original poster had already decided that they were a bad idea for her for now, so why do I have to keep the question going? But for my own purposes, I submit:

I guess I believe bottom line is that if takes writing down what I eat to keep me at a certain weight, can that really be the right weight for me? Especially when it's so hard to tell what the motivation is. Some people are not bothered by thinking that they are doing this to meet a cultural expectation, but it galls the heck out of me to think I've spent so much of my adult life concerned with this just because I was raised here at this time in history. I am so aware that if I had been born in a Middle Eastern country or certain places in Africa, I would have been happy to be zaftig! I might have had other neuroses, but not this one. Of course, those women aren't any freer from their cultural imperatives than I am, but I like to think that if I can see through a cultural veil, I can more pick and choose which values I agree to adopt and make efforts for. It bothers me to think I can't!

In a somewhat related vein I think of a young woman who has her own website on her transformation from being quite obese to pretty darn slim (and because a cook in the meantime! Now, that's sumpin'!). She reports that at one point she was all stressed out working on a deadline and doing this and that and forcing herself to run for exercise and was feeling so obligated to lead this strict life that she sat in her car and cried thinking it is NOT worth it! That if that was how she was going to have to live to stay slim, that she possibly wasn't going to stay slim. But she also wasn't going to go back to the way she lived before. She realized she liked eating well and she liked running sometimes and walking others, and without much more than that, her weight stabilized. (MInd you, early in her efforts, she lived in Italy for five months and was profoundly impressed with the value of delicious food for three meals a day and a lot of walking. And also, she fears no food but often says on her site, "You deserve a cookie.) But the fact that she reached a point at which she was willing to buck the social pressure that implies that down deep, you're really weak if you aren't willing to "do what it takes," was impressive to me. I've felt that way a long time. I wish I could say I had come to terms with it as early as she did, but here we are. Even now, I am letting the vestiges of that need to be willing to do more as a badge of worthiness go. I still wonder, am I just giving up on myself? Am I just letting myself off the hook? So far, the answer is no.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
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1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
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Post by middleager » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:29 pm

Zaftig! What a great word. i had to look it up. Yiddish. i will have to drop it into conversation.

I definitely feel like too much of my brain space has been taken up by weight and nutrition issues all through my life when I could have been out saving the world. It is really difficult to change a lifetime of thought patterns. And i suspect it applies to most women in the western world for the last 40 to 50 years. My mother is 84 and she is STILL constantly talking about her weight and her eating. It is a tragedy really.
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:58 pm

I ate very light yesterday because I didn't really have much hunger (but I still wanted to eat!). It was kind of hard, but I had done it the other way, eating more because I actually felt like eating more even though I wasn't hungry, and hadn't been happy with that. I had to push to give myself the contrast. I have a feeling I'm still going to have to play it by ear. I struggle with having time but not being willing to do many tasks I need to be doing. I still want to eat at those times. It's an ongoing issue which I don't think No S can fix. I can't expect it to show me how to spend the time I'm not eating!
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
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1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
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Post by NoSnacker » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:10 am

I have plenty to do around my house to keep me occupied but I find I'd rather not for some reason....hmmmm lazy I guess. Habits are sure hard to break but I know can be done with some time and patience. Have a great Monday!
Age 56: SBMI=30.6 (12/1/13) CBMI 28.9 (2/2/14) GBMI-24.8

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Post by oolala53 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:13 pm

I'd venture that this is exactly the issue. I wouldn't call it lazy, or at least I hope not because this is my issue, too. But something is off, and grappling with that discontent is key. Is it about inner action or outer action? Or a combination? ONe thing is for sure: eating too much isn't going to fix it.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by chani8 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:39 pm

I love your comment, oolala, about not knowing what to do with your spare time.

I read a book on personality differences (the Myers-Briggs system) and they discuss that some people are more thinkers than doers. That consoles me. I'm not lazy, and if you could see all that's happening in my head, you'd agree! Too bad all that thinking doesn't get the chores done. ;)
`Chani8
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Post by oolala53 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:43 pm

Yes, I'm a thinker, although I'm kind of on the cusp of a couple of those areas. And on the slight side of introversion, although I'm not the quiet one in the corner.

I've probably written a book between my posts here and on Spark, though it's rather repetitive. I think it's really satisfied some parts of my personality and not just been more of the obsession. I hope.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by chani8 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:48 pm

I just want to say that your comments on auto's thread about anxiety are really interesting.

You've got me pondering about what is coming up for me now that I have more spare time between meals.
`Chani8
I'm a 44yo, married, Jewish, mother, and foster mom, living in Israel. I eat low carb, count calories, eat 'clean', love kosher, and live primal. I workout impulsively. I'm new to the No S Diet and I love it!

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Post by chani8 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:50 pm

Since you have it mentioned in your siggy line, could you please explain what it means to be vanilla? I've never heard that phrase (except on this forum) and can't quite guess what it means.
`Chani8
I'm a 44yo, married, Jewish, mother, and foster mom, living in Israel. I eat low carb, count calories, eat 'clean', love kosher, and live primal. I workout impulsively. I'm new to the No S Diet and I love it!

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Post by oolala53 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:49 am

I took an S day today. I had been wanting pancakes and went for brunch with a friend with whom the plan was to share two meals. Other food looked better to us, so I saved room for a big pancake for dessert at home! I also decided to have some leftover Christmas candy and cookies. They tasted wonderful and it felt good to get a bit full; however, I didn't have that stuffed feeling at all. I can feel that I probably won't be hungry for dinner, but I don't care. I wanted to eat and if life can't afford me a day like this once in awhile, I just don't know what to think. I even took a nap and then got some yard work done, which I had been procrastinating on.

I also got in about 30 minutes of walking to and from the restaurant. It's so nice to have a reason to walk somewhere.

I am a teacher who moves from room to room, so I am always wheeling materials around, or I'd consider parking several blocks from work and walking the rest of the way. I guess if I'd allow the extra time to walk from my car, I should be willing to park at work and take a walk before school and after I get done. Hmmm.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
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1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by automatedeating » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:46 am

Glad to hear about your fun day, oolala!
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5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
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3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
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Post by chani8 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:59 am

Melt in your mouth real pancakes sound awesome!

You've got my vote for that extra walking! :)

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Post by eschano » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:01 pm

What a great description - would have loved to be there too! I agree, as long as they are kept moderately few, those days are worth taking an extra S day :)
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Post by NoSnacker » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:42 pm

Oolala, I was thinking if you start your group sessions/classes, perhaps you could record them as soundtracks and people can buy them? I know the link I have been sharing around, Dr Amy Johnson has the 23 page book and 3 mp3 tracks that I bought...

She held her classes via conference call as well.......and had Q & A sessions.

Just a thought?
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:56 pm

I WILL think about that. Though she IS a doctor...

It's interesting that Kathryn doesn't do any counseling. I know she has children but I have teaching colleagues with children. They work pretty long hours! Maybe she will when all her kids are in school. She would make a BUNDLE!

It's amazing to me that Reinhard hasn't tried to cash in more on this.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by oolala53 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:56 am

I"ve been experimenting with eating just what I have in the fridge at home. Good golly, I have a lot of food in there! I think I've spent only a few dollars on fruit in the past ten days. And I did eat out a couple of times. I also broke down today for some freggies, but I'm going to keep going. I think I spend too much time shopping and buying food when I don't really need it. I'm pretty sure I still have a good ten meals' worth of starch and protein. I like the idea that I could make do.

If I feel like it's making me shaky in my program, I'll abandon the experiment.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by NoSnacker » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:52 am

As long as deprivation mind doesn't set in..or rebellion :). I know if I make myself eat something I really am not feeling just because I planned it..makes for a terrible evening of feeling deprived in some way.

Kathryn isn't a doctor and wrote a book, so I think you could as well :)

Amy seems to have taken her source of information from 3 different authors. Did you read her book yet?
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Post by eschano » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:42 pm

I'm going to move at the end of the month, so eating everything I have at home is something I'll have to do too! Hope it's more fun than it sounds like to me :)
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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:53 pm

I do that too every several weeks or so when my pantry starts to pile up too much!
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Post by jw » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:16 pm

Me three on the book!
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Post by Sweetness » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:59 pm

Oolala, I'm delighted to see you are still here. I've been away from the forum for several months, so I'm starting a new check in. Any encouraging words you can offer me are welcome. :?
Patty

Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. (Proverbs 12:25 NET)
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Post by oolala53 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:42 am

OH, I also include any food that is in the larder, and if you saw it all, I think you would not worry that I might feel deprived. :lol:
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by osoniye » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:13 pm

Hi, Oolala,
Using everything up in the fridge is a great exercise, if it doesn't derail your program. I travel for work for a couple of weeks, several times a year, and try to clean the fridge and freezer out so I can unplug it before I go. Some meals at the end are a little strange, I'll admit, but I LOVE coming home and starting with all fresh stuff. I really wish I could get control of pantry foods, but I seem to have too many ingredients that would make the perfect meal if matched with something I don't have on hand. That would be a big project to try to buy only things that would match with something I have, but I don't seem to have enough motivation for that yet!
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:40 pm

I bought some lettuce, grape tomatoes, little red peppers, and snap peas the other day. And half and half! Gotta have coffee. But other than that, I'm still chipping away at turkey, shrimp, chicken, chicken livers, stewed beef, English muffins, wheat bread, potatoes, cooked white beans, cooked pasta, nuts, cheese, and I have two winter squashes plus more dried beans and pasta to cook, and a few canned items. I have packaged sauces, too. Not sure I'll make myself go through all those, though that was also an intent. I've got to remember to use them!

And this is after 2 weeks! And for just one person. You'd think I lived in the outback of the Yukon.

If I hadn't forced myself to do this, I'd still be grocery shopping a few times a week. I wish I could say I'd filled the extra time with something really useful, but that hasn't happened yet. :roll:
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

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Post by Sweetness » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:34 pm

I'm going to take your concept and change it up a bit. I do shop almost every day while I'm in Mexico, because my fridge is tiny, I have two small cupboard shelves for a pantry, and the open air market is 3 blocks away and fresh foods are there. My fridge gets really full though and I still end up tossing things. So I need to work on using something I already have in the fridge or pantry shelf with EVERY MEAL.
Patty

Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. (Proverbs 12:25 NET)
I'm a glutton for encouragement.

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Post by automatedeating » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:52 pm

I love this idea, Oolala!
I have found that by limiting my shopping to one day, I am making actual effective lists (!) to make sure I don't buy too much extra. But your idea is even more challenging, and I like the sound of it.
Waste not, want not! :)
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5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
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Post by jw » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:01 pm

This is a fun project, oolala -- when you first posted about this, I thought, Oh, she'd do well here in blizzard country! I overstock the pantry every fall for the days when it's just not worth it to drive. It'll be mostly gone by spring and what's left will go to the letter carriers' food drive for the local food banks in May.
Last edited by jw on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by chani8 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:39 am

I'm really confused by the 'empty the pantry' thing as I look around and there isn't much here, and I go shopping two times a week. Having teen boys seems to create a disappearing effect on the food.

When I had control of my kitchen, when the kids were younger, I shopped once every other week, with lists, and only had to stop and buy fresh bread and milk.

There are some things that I'm sitting on that I just can't throw out, even though we'll likely never eat it. It's hard to throw stuff out, but it's opened so I can't give it away. Truth is, there may be some dumpster divers willing to take it, if I could time my putting stuff out when they're coming by.

Anyway, I think it's awesome to go through your food. But if it feels like a downer, I also support you to give it away and start fresh. No need to feel trapped by it.

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Post by Sweetness » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:18 pm

chani8 wrote:I'm really confused by the 'empty the pantry' thing as I look around and there isn't much here, and I go shopping two times a week. Having teen boys seems to create a disappearing effect on the it.
Some people, like me have hoarding tendencies, and some don't. My hoarding tendencies are definitely connected to fear of going hungry... So my motivation is to free myself from that. If I were to tell you what's in my pantry in the states! there I have 2 young adult sons, but I fill it because I have the space and I don't want to run out of food. It's a disorganized overflowing mess, and could easily feed us all for weeks! The fridge was similar, and I have trouble throwing anything out. :?
Patty

Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. (Proverbs 12:25 NET)
I'm a glutton for encouragement.

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Post by automatedeating » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:00 pm

This conversation is getting me all fired up to empty out my pantry, freezer and fridge!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:07 pm

I have a compost bin which makes it a little easier to justify throwing out some food, though it's really mostly rotted stuff or vegetable ends that go in it.

I live in 500 sq. ft. It's still amazing how much I fit in. My sister has a pantry as big as a third of my kitchen, for just her husband and her, though they do do some entertaining.

Well, I had a rather old-fashioned, over-the-top permasnacking day yesterday. I don't blame it on the fridge issue, though. It has a lot more to do with not planning much and having unpleasant tasks hanging over me, which has been a life-long issue. I think it will remain so.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:45 pm

Well, I had a colossal fail last night. Pretty much an old style binge. It was for something I had been longing for, had tried substitutes for a few days, and finally found the version I wanted. Okay, I think I'm over it. This time, I'm going to eat a little MORE at my meals afterwards than I might, as an experiment. And we have a 4-day weekend coming up on which I'd like to get some extra exercise. I hope to have tapered down to normal by the end of that.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

automatedeating
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Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:16 pm

Post by automatedeating » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:47 pm

do you mean you are going to load up your plates a little more to make sure you are full?
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

Sweetness
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Post by Sweetness » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:41 pm

oolala53 wrote:Well, I had a colossal fail last night. Pretty much an old style binge. It was for something I had been longing for, had tried substitutes for a few days, and finally found the version I wanted. Okay, I think I'm over it. This time, I'm going to eat a little MORE at my meals afterwards than I might, as an experiment. And we have a 4-day weekend coming up on which I'd like to get some extra exercise. I hope to have tapered down to normal by the end of that.
Looks like a plan... you started my curiousity going... what was the something?
Patty

Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. (Proverbs 12:25 NET)
I'm a glutton for encouragement.

oolala53
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:20 am

Hard to admit: cookie dough. Not even home made.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Tessytwinkle
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Post by Tessytwinkle » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:01 am

Dear Oolala. Thank you for your wise welcoming words on my thread. I am now off to peer in my fridge. You always make me think so much :)
I love cookie dough, or cake mix as I call it here. Cooks perks I always think as I help myself when baking. Yummy, very hard to resist!! But your central habits are so strong you will be ok. And of course to err is human :)

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Post by Sweetness » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:42 pm

Thanks for fessing up! In a strange way it helps me to know you are human after all! :wink:
Patty

Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. (Proverbs 12:25 NET)
I'm a glutton for encouragement.

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NoSnacker
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Post by NoSnacker » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:52 am

Hi Oolala, do you think this was brought on by making yourself clean all the food from your home when you may not have wanted to eat what you prepared or fooled yourself into it?? Sometimes our ideas backfire. Just a thought. I know for me, eating things I did not desire just because caused me to binge. This could come from the lower part of the brain rebelling....
Age 56: SBMI=30.6 (12/1/13) CBMI 28.9 (2/2/14) GBMI-24.8

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:54 pm

I don't think it's because of the fridge issue, which is still continuing, though who knows. If anything, I think it has to do with chronic problems outside of eating that I really hoped would be solved by now or at least have improved more than they have. Sometimes it just gets to me how much things stay the same despite my efforts. Then again, things could be much worse, I know. There is a woman on Spark who has a chronic pain problem so bad she finally gave up her job and spends most of her time going to clinics to see if they can help her. Yet she has a husband who schleps around with her!

I am paying my bills. My physical health is good. No one is suing me. Besides mortgages, I am debt free. Got to keep things in perspective.

The eating failures have not ended. I had a doozy on Friday after I took most of the day off as a sick day, though I was only mentally worn out. Had a terrible blow up with a student that morning, but I had already decided to take the rest of the day off. I have at least three or four students in 4 of 5 classes every day that are especially problematic. I feel anxious, disappointed, and often disgusted- though I really try to fight that one- for much of the time. I think. It just occurred to me that I should try to gauge more how much of the time I actually feel distressed and when I don't, and possibly try to do more of what isn't distressing.
and I certainly don't want to use work as a reason to eat. It has been this problematic for my whole career and I had what I considered three and a half successful years on No S without work being the problem. Things are no worse now than they were then. I've got to get my priorities straight again.

And I am still dealing with the fact that I have much less hunger these days but not less of a desire to eat nor less of a desire to get pleasure from food. Sticking to my three meals isn't quite as fun as before, so it's not as much of a balance to my other difficulties as it was. So, I haven't really lost my dependence on pleasant experiences of food to support my life, even though I'm eating much less than I was 4 years ago, and it feels like I am basically maintaining my losses, except for about a 3-lb. differential.

I feel I am doing the best I can to find a relationship. I spend a lot of time looking for ways to either make my work less stressful or to get out of my work, but at the end of the day, none of them are doable right now. Those are my sticking points. Ah, well. Many in the world would be happy to have my problems.
Last edited by oolala53 on Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Tessytwinkle
Posts: 610
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:14 pm

Post by Tessytwinkle » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:24 pm

Hi Oolala I too spend a lot of my time thinking how can I make my job less stressful and how can I leave it. But like you it does not seem doable at the moment. Sometimes it just goes round and round in my head. So I empathise greatly with your post. I feel it is my age, I want to stop, to live my next part of life well. But at the moment I can't. So for me the trick is how to live this bit well I suppose. Let me know if you have any insights!! In my experience from reading your thread over time. You can be a very insightful woman :) :?

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:28 pm

Aren't you sweet?! Thank you.

What's your job, BTW?

This weekend I've been reading back and forth between a book and blog written by Jacob Lund Fiskar, who was able to retire in his early 30's through aggressive budgeting, saving, and eventually investing. But he was willing and able to give up a lot. For one thing, he started in grad school, and was able to live in a dorm for quite cheap. Plus, he could walk to his office and a good grocery store so he gave up his car. I don't know what city it was in, but likely one with decent public transport. Amazingly, in the ensuing years, he met his wife, who married him without much traditional dating.

I haven't read it all, of course. He does a lot of making fun of people for their material needs, but I wonder if his investments are in companies that make frivolous products so that he is making money off items he scoffs at. Or the equivalent. One of his detractors said he is just chasing the drivers of the economy and has not really achieved any real freedom. But he doesn't have a boss. And he doesn't have to try to teach reluctant teenagers to prepare themselves for a 4 year college most of them are not actually interested in attending. Fiskar has a lot to say about that. He eventually got his Ph.D in a science, and he says if he had it to do over again, he would have gone to a trade school! He does a lot of chiding the fact that so many people don't know how to do things or fix things. I had a boyfriend who felt the same way. I wonder if these people understand that they have an ability to see in 3 dimensions, which only about 25% of the population can do and is the basis for much of that kind of work?

I've sometimes thought of renting out my place and moving close enough to my work work to walk but I'm not sure it would actually save me that much. I would be willing to share a house with compatible adults, but how do I find them? I'm not a very mainstream person. And rents aren't much lower than my share of the mortgage, though I would have a few hundred $ a month in cash flow from my duplex if I moved. And I would still want to do some things for fun, which would involve more driving and more gas.

I do have some cash and am considering buying another rental property about an hour away in the vicinity of a spiritual teacher I go see several weekends a month when he is in the US. I wouldn't plan to use the place and I don't know if I would ever live there, but the area is projected to go up by about 13% next year and I'd like to be able to catch that wave, since I lost a ton in the downturn. At least I know some people there and am likely to visit. I'm selling a place in AZ, taking the loss, in an area that is projected to go up only 6% to free up my credit. It might go up more later, but it actually costs me money to keep it, and I think I could at least break even in the new property. But all this is unlikely to help me out soon, which is when I could use it!

If you had told me fifteen years ago that I would be spending my time thinking about all this, I would have thought you were crazy. Maybe it was better when I didn't think I had a chance to accumulate anything.

I don't actually want to quit working, though I can't think of any job I could go get and be happy in. If I could, I swear, I would go do it and supplement my little retirement. I'm talking about a wage job where someone else has the business. I would dearly love to think I could keep working at least part time at something I liked and not have to tap into any reserves until I'm 70, but for teaching, the projected date is June, 2016, unless I can figure out a way to quit earlier. Or if I find someone to run away with. He doesn't have to be rich. Just solvent and good company. :lol:

My goodness, I am just letting it all hang out.

Like you, this goes around and around in my head. It to some degree keeps me from socializing because I don't have other things to talk about except my disappointments in love and work... and I don't like the idea of being that person...
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:05 pm

2 years until retirement? That is coming up fast! And maybe you could cash in all your unused sick leave and be done by January of 2016?
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:06 pm

Or you could rent out your duplex, and go teach abroad. France or Italy, my dear Oolala.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

Tessytwinkle
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Post by Tessytwinkle » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:38 pm

Hi Oolala
I am a teacher too, I think it is in the nature of the job to be stressful these days. There seem to be so many demands on us.. It can be brilliant. But also demanding and unrewarding at times. We must be near the same age. I am 60 in a month or two. Today, like many others lately, I spent ages trying to work out how I can leave work, I have thought about taking a different job, a part time job, just leaving and trying to mend some of my health etc etc. but in reality I have to keep going for about another three years and try to cut right down and try to save as much as I can in that time. So I am learning to live below my current wage ready for the big drop that will come. I have had very little in the past and I know I can make money stretch. I think dear Oolala that we need to live our lives well now, think bold thoughts, make plans, sadly I have already lost a dear friend this year. Not much older than me. So I feel the need to grab life and enjoy it, i feel some of the everyday answers lie in the LAM, if I have to work, then I need to look after myself better, care for myself more. So I am trying this now. I hope you can find the right path for you. But please remember you are certainly not alone in your questing , and there are many people on these boards who are wishing you well :)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:34 am

Thank you all, for your concern!

I was talking to my accountant today and she told me she has many clients who are teachers and she hears all the time from them how hard the job has gotten. Yes, I'm not alone.

I think I'm going to work part time next year, if the district allows me. They do allow teachers who have fewer than 5 years to work a shorter day without losing time towards retirement, though I have a feeling it's not automatic for them to give permission because it does cost them. PLus, I can cover classes for teachers who are absent without a sub, but not have to prep, grade papers, or put up with the same students every day, so I can supplement the salary loss. But it will leave me with some extra time and I hope the energy to pursue some other things, perhaps even some things I can make money at later. I just hope not to have to put them off any longer. I still want another career.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

eschano
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Post by eschano » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:15 pm

Oolala,

I can't even begin to imagine how annoying teaching can be. I'm not a big kids-person. However, you do have a massive plus over that young millionaire: you actually contribute to society every day in the most important way, being a role-model, and allowing some pupils who have a less-than-nice home to have an adult they can look up to. They might be a nightmare to you but they also might come back in 20 years saying that you changed their lives. (that might be a small consolation now but in the long run your job has made much more of a difference to the world).

I think you are awesome and nothing should get you down.

As for flatmates: just respond to ads online and check them out. Might take a while before you find one you hit it off with but living with people is fun.

I love auto's idea: why don't you take a 1-year trip somewhere? Do a little Julia Child vacation and enjoy while teaching English to adults who actually want to learn? and write your book in the meantime?

Hope you'll feel better soon!
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again January 2021

Sweetness
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Post by Sweetness » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:07 pm

Ooolala,
I can't imagine a tougher job than teaching teenagers who don't want to learn. I was stressing a bit about just 2 hours of teaching at the home for street boys, which I did on Saturday. We had a team of 5 for 49 former street kids all boys. In the morning I did some praying about why I was so stressed, and some other experiences came to mind. Once I prayed through those, I was no longer anxious. Wow, those boys really won my heart. After watching a video, we divided them up into 3 groups. My hubby took the 13-16 year olds, the other couple took the youngest ones, and another lady who has never worked with kids and I took the 10 to 12 year olds. They were very disorderly, but needing affection and attention and their questions about God really touched me.

I agree with eschano, you are making a difference in the world. Your life has more purpose than just to make yourself happy.
Patty

Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. (Proverbs 12:25 NET)
I'm a glutton for encouragement.

jw
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Location: PA

Post by jw » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:12 pm

It sounds like ideas are starting to percolate, oolala! I love auto's idea, too -- just have a busman's holiday abroad for a while! There was a program in Kerala where you lived, learned Indian traditional arts, and taught English for a minimal monthly cost. It's a little trend, being an ex-pat in a country with a much lower cost of living. There are (or were) even government incentive programs to entice retired Americans to relocate -- in Bali, in Costa Rica . . .

Anyway, I hope planning the future takes the edge off the present.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:09 pm

Well, these are not out of the question. Problem is, I actually don't want to plan or read student papers anymore! But I don't want to teach beginning conversation. I'd like to sit around reading and talking with intelligent people about interesting texts and get paid for that. I know! Doing that and $1.95 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

But overseas might be the least of the evils. Yet I reserve the right to whine even if I don't use the solutions.

Now, the future I have to finish planning for is the class I have at 9:20 am. :lol:

Love ya!
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

mestahl
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Post by mestahl » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:40 pm

oolala53 wrote: I'd like to sit around reading and talking with intelligent people about interesting texts and get paid for that.
I totally understand that one! I work in a library in a jail - often not rewarding but sometimes someone tells me thank you for that book - I got to escape for a while and it all becomes totally satisfying.

But yeah - how I'd long to go back to my bookish/chatty academic days

Tessytwinkle
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Post by Tessytwinkle » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:56 pm

Oolala. I totally uphold your right to whine :) except you are not much of a whiner more an inspirer and supporter :-). And you not so much whining as trying to find a way out and at our age that is challenging. Hang in there I think if you are looking for a change a door will open, but it takes time to know what is right for you.
Hope your class went ok? :)
Last edited by Tessytwinkle on Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

r.jean
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Post by r.jean » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:26 pm

Thanks for stopping by my thread. The fact that we are struggling after 3 years of No S just shows that it takes work to maintain good habits. There are a lot of things to blame... I think for me it was the sheer volume of life stresses over the last 7 months together with the worst winter in many years. However, the bottom line is I stopped taking care of myself while trying too much to support those around me through these times. The mother syndrome ...

I am getting back on track and hope the same for you!

PS: I was able to retire from the child welfare field last year earlier than I thought I would. Our fields are linked, and I fully understand and sympathize with how challenging your job can be!
The journey is the reward.
Maintenance is progress.

Sweetness
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Post by Sweetness » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:20 pm

Oolala,
I think going part time is a good plan, your time off will be worth lots more than money. 8)
Patty

Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. (Proverbs 12:25 NET)
I'm a glutton for encouragement.

eschano
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Post by eschano » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:35 am

Hi Oolala, I hope you're having a great start into the week!

I read what you wrote on Tessytwinkle's thread and it struck me so hard: woman aren't happy until they are thinner than 94% of their peers. That is absolutely mental and just shows how many people connect thinness to success.

Also, I was really angry reading about the doctor telling your mum you had to lose weight when you had a perfectly healthy body. That is horrible! Reallly sorry that happened to you. What an unprofesisonal doctor.
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again January 2021

Sweetness
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Post by Sweetness » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:19 pm

Oolala,
I was checking out your thread and happened on the discussion of shame as a possible motivator you started in January. I just wanted to put my two cents worth in. Shame is something that makes a person want to hide in the darkness. It causes you to withdraw. I had a wonderful mother, but one thing she did wrong that was common when I was a child 50 years ago, and that was to use the words "Shame on you." Better to spank me than to say those words. It devalues you and sticks to you. I have been learning about and helping people with inner healing for the past year, and shame is one of the things people need to be freed from. When you do the right thing and someone applauds you for it, it does so much for a person's motivation. I just recently got over some shaming that my Mom did to me, and I feel lighter and more joyful. What I like about these boards is the mutual encouragement, we are catching each other doing something right and applauding each other for it. Thanks for starting that discussion on shame.
Patty

Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. (Proverbs 12:25 NET)
I'm a glutton for encouragement.

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:42 pm

Patty, glad you liked it.

MOgosh, I"ve been failing every day. Last night it felt like the old days of ridiculous overeating. Not sure what else to do.

HATE the time change. I need to be getting ready for work but it is still so dark out and I want to do this while it's dark! Tough life, huh?

Speaking of shame, I realize I've been feeling some over an incident at work yesterday. I was torn, feeling shame on the one hand because I thought I overreacted, and sad and hurt on the other hand because I did think I was chastised from someone who NEVER thinks she does anything wrong. It wouldn't even occur to her that she was accusatory to me or had anything to apologize for. I KNOW I do, and have admitted it, and apologized. I'm tired of being the only one.
Last edited by oolala53 on Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:42 pm

MOgosh, I"ve been failing every day. Last night it felt like the old days of ridiculous overeating. Not sure what else to do.

HATE the time change. I need to be getting ready for work but it is still so dark out and I want to do this while it's dark! Tough life, huh?
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

User avatar
lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:53 pm

I'm SO sorry to hear you're having difficulties Oolala. It must be pretty unnerving to be having such a hard time after all these years of NoS.

You are an inspiration to a lot of us on here and I know you'll find your way out of this. Do you think going back to the basics would help? Maybe a 21 day, challenge? Do you still mark your habitcal everyday?

Not sure what will help but wanted to offer my support.

Linda

Btw, I do think daylight savings can be v challenging. You're not just being whiny! Maybe you should move to arizona--we're too stubborn here to change our clocks!
Last edited by lpearlmom on Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

osoniye
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Location: Horn of Africa

Post by osoniye » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:03 pm

Hi Oolala,
Sorry to hear you're struggling a bit just now. You've been a great support on these boards, I wish I could say something truly profound and helpful.
Assuming your BMI is still around that in your signature, you are at a healthy weight. It seems that fat cells never forget, and it may be just a time when all hormones are "go" as far as making you hungry and not letting you feel really satisfied-?
Could it also be emotional, like work stress or dissatisfaction with other areas of life? I am confident you will figure out what is at the bottom of this streak of failed N days and be able to rise up and fight again. Wishing you the best.
-Sonya
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".

mestahl
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Location: North Carolina

Post by mestahl » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:57 pm

Hang in there - I find everything (including my general dislike for my job) comes in cycles. You're a pro at this and have given so many people on this board so much encouragement and support.

You are definitely not the only person who is thrown for a loop with this time change nonsense. I don't think I've had a really good night's sleep since Saturday. It will get better - the days will get longer and we'll all be complaining about the heat by July.

I hate to quote Scarlett O'Hara from Gone with the Wind here but:

"After all tomorrow is another day"

automatedeating
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Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:16 pm

Post by automatedeating » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:06 am

Thinking of you, Oolala. We're all here to tell you, Mark it and Move on! and all those wonderful encouragements you give to us. :)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

jw
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Location: PA

Post by jw » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:35 am

HATE the spring time change -- pamper yourself a little, even with food, then get your balance back. I know you will.

Re: the work incident afterburn -- if you overreacted and realized it and apologized, you've done all you can do. Let it go. If the other party can't match you in honesty and graciousness, that's no skin off your nose . . . I can see it might irk you that she can do no wrong in her own eyes, but think of it this way: she can't let herself apologize for anything, ever, so she carries all her mistakes with her and on some level, she knows it. That's a lot of baggage!

Hope you turn the corner soon --
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

Sweetness
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Post by Sweetness » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:22 am

I think the work/ people frustration plus the time change could be the reason. I really dislike the time change too.

You are such a winner though, you won't be down for long. Have you heard this saying, "Hurting people hurt people; healed people heal people." Your coworker is probably hurting in some way. Work on the LAMS and you will feel better and be able to help others like you always do.
Patty

Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. (Proverbs 12:25 NET)
I'm a glutton for encouragement.

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:53 am

(((((((Big Hugs))))))))
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:28 am

You all rock! Thank you so much for your kind words.

I did have a small fail yesterday, but feel okay because it didn't deteriorate into WTH. Had a normal dinner and was tired enough to go to bed early. 'Course, now I'm up at 1;45 a.m., but I'll get some more rest in awhile. One more day of work this week!

I voted today on whether to strike or not. I feel very torn because our situation is not actually dire, but the district seems to be tempting fate with contract violations and refusals to offer any alternatives, yet also refusing to admit impasse. Who knows what they'll do next if we don't take a stand? If we walk out for even 4 days, I have little enough time left in my career to ever make up for the loss in pay, and I doubt we'll get the kind of concessions that would really feel like a win. Yet I would not cross a picket line, and I do hope to support the future negotiations of younger teachers. I've seen what it's like to work for non-union schools, and it wasn't pretty.

Going to a jazz performance tonight and a St. Patrick's party Saturday. I haven't had two planned events on a weekend in a long time!

Oh, I got a cash offer on a house I just put on the market Monday. However, I'm wishing I had asked more now as the selling price will not cover both the agency's fee and the money I still owe, so I'll have to make up the difference of several thousand dollars.. BUT, having this loan costs me money AND other opportunities, so I"m hoping I'll be able to make up the difference in the next year. Once again, I"m aware many people would love to have my problems. Yet I'm starting to wonder if the body and mind knows the difference. Would I actually feel more of a burden if my financial situation were worse, or would I just find a way to compensate under the pressure? I mean, people with bigger problems than mine still keep waking up every day and living through their situations.

But to show you where I'm at, I'm not through seriously considering living out of a nice RV in my driveway and renting out my half of my duplex. When I think about how I spend a lot of my free time, I really don't need much more than that. I have a lot fewer possessions than many and I still don't use a LOT of them. (I've been reading the blog of a guy who lives on 7,000 bucks a year, all of it from investments. And I'm going to a lecture by two guys who have around 2 million readers of their blog about how they've given "it" all up and moved to Montana. Ironic, no? They purposely drop out and 4 years later are on a 100-city tour. Millions of people are eking out a living and they get famous for doing it on purpose. Rather because they write about it eloquently. Ah, what the public won't do for the right fantasy! I finally realized that that is what all writers, no matter how true their words feel to themselves or others, offer. The written word can NEVER be the experience. I'm not criticizing. Just seeing.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

eschano
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Post by eschano » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:29 am

Glad you got an offer! You don't have to accept it if it's too little.

As for the RV - I strongly recommend a short-term trial. Rent out your duplex for 2-3 months and see how it goes. The times goes by fast enough to wing it if you hate it and is long enough to get a feeling for it. If you are central enough you can also rent it to tourists during major holidays. Some of my friends do that and they just stay with friends or family for a couple of days/a week during peak times. It also means you can charge a lot more for one week than you would usually.

Just a thought.
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again January 2021

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MerryKat
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Location: Sunny South Africa

Post by MerryKat » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:28 am

Oolala - Yes, people have different problems to you and but you have your problems and no-one can minimise how they affect you and influence you on a day to day basis. Don't try to sweep your problems away because to you they look smaller than other peoples! To you their problems seem much bigger than yours but they might say the same of yours.

I am glad you got an offer - Hope all works out!

I agree with Eschano - I would trial the RV before you committed to that full time. You may love it but you may also hate it!

Have a blessed Friday.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

mestahl
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Location: North Carolina

Post by mestahl » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:15 pm

I read a book called Walden On Wheels by Ken Ilgunas and while he didn't live out of an RV - he lived out of a van - it was a really great read. He also has a blog.

I've always been intrigued by people who can downsize. It is amazing what one can adapt to - given any situation.

oolala53
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:03 pm

A trial is a good idea.I wouldn't likely move on this until summer break--- if ever. I've got lots of ideas that have been floating around for years...

My singing teacher souped up a studio behind her house and put it up for nightly rent a few weeks ago. She's got takers already. I'm going to watch what happens.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Sweetness
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:54 pm
Location: Fall and winters in Cuernavaca, Morelos Mexico and summers in St Paul, Minnesota

Post by Sweetness » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:34 pm

I love reading stories about people who have downsized, but could I do it? Maybe if I was single and I had to. I have a single friend who lived for 3 plus years in the little house on the property here. It was the Father-in-law's house of our landlords. It is just a good sized bedroom and bathroom with a little open porch accross the front. She bought a small fridge and a hot plate. She had driven down with all her possessions in her little car. I gave her 2 of everything for table setting; all plasticware and castoffs that I had in my house (to tide her over till she bought here own, I thought). A couple years later after we had moved to the states, we stayed in her little house when we came for a visit and she was out of the country. I was so surprised to see only the same plastic cups, plates, 2 each of forks knives and spoons etc I had given her. She had never felt the need for more. All her kitchenware was in one little dresser drawer. Two pots hung frome the wall. It amazed me.

It would be fun to try maybe....
Patty

Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. (Proverbs 12:25 NET)
I'm a glutton for encouragement.

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:05 pm

Althernately, and certainly not as cheaply, here are some tiny houses.
http://tinyhousetalk.com/rustic-micro-c ... -diego-ca/
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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