magicman's Check In

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

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magicman
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magicman's Check In

Post by magicman » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:47 am

Day T minus 4

Did my official weigh in.

437 pounds

This is the last time I'll likely be weighing myself until I reach some milestone. Ten months maybe? When you can lose an entire person and still be fat, the scale stops being meaningful. Meaningful will be not having difficulties wiping myself after going to the bathroom. :oops: Ah, the pains that only fat people know.

I'm trying not to worry too much about this diet. I'll be giving myself free reign to pile as much as I can on a plate. I'm not going to worry about binging on S-days. Because the way my life is right now, every day is an S-day, and every day I binge. No matter how much I try to rules-lawyer the system, I'll be creating a net decrease in the amount of calories I eat during the course of a week.

My only goal is to have a healthy and sustainable relationship with food. This is not something that can be measured in pounds or inches. Hopefully it can be measured in what will amount to my ongoing testimony here. Thank you for joining me on this journey.

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Post by magicman » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:15 pm

Day 1: Success

A hard day, but not for dietary reasons.

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Post by CrazyCatLady » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:01 am

Welcome, MagicMan. Congrats on the success. And kudos on realizing that a healthy relationship with food is the greatest success. You can do it. One day, one plate, one moment at a time. Build those healthy habits.

One of the best things about No S for me is that food tastes so good now that I am usually hungry for my next meal.

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Post by LoriLifts » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:49 am

Good for you!
:D Lori
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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:44 am

You will do great!!!
8) Debs
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Post by magicman » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:20 am

Day 2: S-Day

Treated myself to a very nice bar of white chocolate with coconut with a pomegranate/blueberry juice. Otherwise, ate more than I should on an N-day, but still pretty reasonable.

It was a long hard day again in non-dietary world. Tomorrow will be relaxing.
Last edited by magicman on Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by magicman » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:23 am

Day 3: S-Day

Went a bit overboard today, but it was a double S day, as I also felt sick. Felt like the quitter's flu I was having a couple weeks ago. Feeling better now. Looking forward to starting the week strong.

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Post by Anne » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:47 am

Hi Magicman. For me, N-days are usually easier that S-days. They are more structured and I know exactly what I should and shouldn't do. The freedom of S-days is sometimes hard to handle!
I wish you the best for this coming week.

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Post by magicman » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:36 pm

Day 4: SUCCESS

Tough day. Ate dinner at 6, and couldn't help but think about how far away breakfast was. But I made it.

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Post by RedChina » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:02 pm

Good luck Magicman! I look forward to following your progress and success!

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Post by blue » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:50 pm

WoW 4 days of Success Thats awsome!!!!! :lol:

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Post by magicman » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:29 pm

Day 5: Success

An easier day. To many eyes, today's plates would look like excess. To mine, though... There is still pizza in the fridge from a large bought Monday.

Only sore spot was going out to lunch with a workmate. I can't have my sweet tea! I live in the south, and sweet tea is God's own drink. It's served in every restaurant here including the Japanese restaurant, the Chinese restaurant, the Mexican restaurant, the Italian restaurant which is where we had lunch.

I'd gotten away so far with getting an orange juice at some other places, but my only options were city tap water and Diet Pepsi. I went with the Diet Pepsi, but it tasted terrible, and psychologically served to remind me I was on a diet. They let you BYOB of wine, and I'm almost tempted to do that, but I really don't know what my coworkers would think if I was drinking wine at lunch. Maybe I can try to say the French do it, and they are skinny?

Anyway, Day 5 was easier than Day 4.

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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:18 pm

Hi Magicman.
Well, not that you asked, but personally I am a rabid "anti diet soda" person..
I think diet soda is not only crap tasting, it's incredibly unhealthy and there's enough studies out in the last few years that point to it actually *hurting* us in terms of wreaking havoc on your appetite and making you even more hungry.. something one doesn't really want I'd suppose if they are trying to eat less.

As for the sweet tea, I know it's probably really hard to do this, but why don't you just try adding two or three teaspoons of sugar to regular unsweetened iced tea?
Even if you add four, it's probably one third of the sugar you would have in a pre sweetened tea..
Save those for S days.
I've finally managed to get from about four teaspoons total of added sugar in my coffee (a combination of sugar in the raw and a few teaspoons of hot cocoa mix) to one and a half teaspoons of hot cocoa..
It took me less than a week to get used to the taste being different, and now after a month or so, it's really not at *all* missed..
Your tastebuds will adapt quickly..


Good luck!

8) Debs
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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:20 pm

magicman wrote:Day 5: Success
They let you BYOB of wine, and I'm almost tempted to do that, but I really don't know what my coworkers would think if I was drinking wine at lunch. Maybe I can try to say the French do it, and they are skinny?

Anyway, Day 5 was easier than Day 4.
Haha funny :)
Why not share with them? :wink:

Glad to hear it's getting easier!
You're doing something really great for yourself so just stick to it! :D
There is no Wisdom greater than Kindness

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Post by magicman » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:07 pm

I like Tropicana and Minute Maid Lite Lemonade. And both Coke and Pepsi's Splenda versions taste fine to me. But these aren't the diet drinks you find on tap.

I tried putting sugar in non-sweetened iced tea when I was visiting California, and it really doesn't work with a cold drink like it does with a hot drink like coffee.

And I know a glass of wine with lunch wouldn't effect me much... but I'm afraid my workmates may be lightweights.

Today I just didn't drink anything and got a small bottle of 100% not from concentrate apple juice on my way back to the office.

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Post by Hopeful » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:32 pm

Thanks for the encouragement! Sounds like you are doing great! I hope I have the same will power!
In the picture found on Redchina's forum I weighed roughly 275 lbs.

Weight 07/27/09 = 268.0 lbs

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Post by magicman » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:47 am

Day 6: SUCCESS

I felt like I didn't enjoy dinner because I was eating more than I really wanted so as to tide my hunger until breakfast. Oh, well, it I suppose that will calibrate itself over time.

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Post by magicman » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:23 pm

Day 7: SUCCESS
Day 8: SUCCESS
Day 9: S-DAY
Day 10: S-DAY

Made it through my first five-day stretch. Enjoying the weekend.

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Post by RedChina » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:41 pm

magicman wrote:Made it through my first five-day stretch. Enjoying the weekend.
Congratulations Magicman! Keep up the great work!

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Post by magicman » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:20 pm

Day 11: SUCCESS

Got really hungry around 10PM. Didn't give in. So far it seems like Mondays are the hard days to get back on track from the weekend. The weekend I went overboard, really, and actually in a way looked forward to the sanity of N-days.

I'm not sure how to build a good S-day habit when they are so rare. But it's too early to worry about that I guess.

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Post by magicman » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:41 am

Day 12: SUCCESS

I seem to be getting more hungry, not less hungry, as the diet progresses.

At around 9PM-10PM I just get REALLY HUNGRY.

Even though I try to eat more than seems prudent for dinner, really big plates, it doesn't seem to help.

I'M SO HUNGRY.

And I'm trying to explain to myself why I can't eat an orange, which has roughage that would fill my stomach, but I can drink a glass of orange juice with the calories of three oranges, and I don't know if this is working.

Quitting smoking was so easy compared to this.

But, still, I'm not giving in. Please, someone tell me it gets easier.

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Yeah, it really does get easier. . .

Post by la_loser » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:09 am

It really does get easier, but meanwhile here are some thoughts. What time are your three meals each day? I remember you said something about going out to lunch with work colleagues? Is the time for that meal negotiable? And what time are you eating dinner? If you're eating lunch fairly early then having dinner as soon as you get home in the evening, perhaps bumping those meals each a little later might help. You wouldn't want to force your last meal of the day too late, but if you could eat it at 7 or 7:30, it might help you get to bedtime easier.

Also I know you are saying you are really HUNGRY now. . .but is it possible that it is the habit of eating something before bedtime rather than true actual hunger?

Another thought is that Reinhard has pointed out before that no where does it say you can only have THREE meals. Some people have actually added a fourth "mini-meal" that is planned and contains some healthy stuff-granted the healthy stuff is not a part of the rules, but if you're going to add a meal, it would be wise to not make it a "snack foods junky type meal." So maybe, that might work for you. . . before bed, a fruit and a piece of cheese and a glass of milk. (protein really help keep you satiated.)

Maybe some others will have some better ideas but maybe the time shift could help a bit. I'm guessing someone who has actually incorporated a fourth meal will chime in too.

Do hang in there--we're here for you!

And I forgot to say--my gosh--how awesome that you've had 12 success days and you've just gotten started. Very few people do that well in the beginning. A few false starts are pretty common-so way to go!
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by kccc » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:49 am

You're in one of the "tough spots" - after the "honeymoon phase" and before the habit is truly set.

Can I suggest listening to some of Reinhard's podcasts for inspiration? I particularly love the one on "Strictness," which explains why it helps to be a bit strict with the rules (like no orange), especially at first.

Hang in there! It does get better.

(To explain a bit more: you will always have some days that are easy, and some days that are tougher. But the easier days get more common, and you get stronger, and learn to manage the tough days.)

Best wishes!!

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Post by Thalia » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:04 pm

That soudns really hard. I know Reinhard (and others) say that a little hunger is a good thing, and before meals I agree -- it makes your dinner taste better and you appreciate it more. But going to bed hungry is miserable, and not sustainable.

Can you have larger dinners, or are you eating enough to be completely satisfied? More fiber and fat on the dinner plate (those have more staying power to keep you satisfied longer)? Or eat dinner later? If none of those work, I personally would add a "one piece of fruit in the evening" mod so you're not starving at bedtime.

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Post by magicman » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:41 pm

Day 13: SUCCESS

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm not going to consider adding any kind of mod until I pass the 21 day mark.

I feel that I'm already eating enough and as late in the day as I'm willing for dinner.

It's been a rough few days. But I know I can do anything for a month. I don't feel I'm in any danger of posting any red days. I'm not the sort to cheat, I'm the sort that recognizes he can't do it anymore, and flat out quits.

I'm not there yet. And I don't want to get there, because I think if I can't hack it on this diet, there is nothing left but surgery or accepting that I'll always be fat. I'd rather just succeed here. But it has to get easier.

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Post by magicman » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:36 pm

Day 14: SUCCESS

Woke up late and didn't have time for breakfast. Had my morning bowl of cereal at 9PM instead. I know changing meal times like that probably isn't ideal, but I'm calling it a success. And a much easier day for me.

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Post by Kathleen » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:48 pm

Magicman,

One day, I forgot to eat breakfast (that never happened before this diet!) and picked the kids up at 3 PM and said I wanted lunch. My 7 year old offered me her leftover snack and said I could call it breakfast.

Three meals a day. There is no restriction for time.

Yes, it gets easier. It was about three weeks of sheer torture. Now I feel hungry and grumpy on Thursday nights. By Friday, I know an S Day is in sight, and I handle it much better.

Kathleen

P.S. I wrote this on Day 10:

"Janie,
All I'm trying to do is have three platefuls at meals and that's it. My kids are teasing me about the pile-up on those plates. I do think that a dive-in approach (perfect compliance) will make it easier very quickly, but right now I'm just gripping the edge of the chair. Tomorrow morning, I think I'll feel better because it will be so few hours until an S Day, and it will be very encouraging to me that I got through an entire week of N Days with all successes. Thanks for caring -
Kathleen"

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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:54 pm

magicman wrote:Day 12: SUCCESS

And I'm trying to explain to myself why I can't eat an orange, which has roughage that would fill my stomach, but I can drink a glass of orange juice with the calories of three oranges, and I don't know if this is working.
Hi Magic..
My only official mod to NoS, that is actually officially sanctioned as well, is to allow a fourth small meal.
When we snack incessantly it's the problem.. that's the thinking behind allowing a glass of juice, rather than snacking on stuff throughout the day...
But I totally agree with you, that a whole orange, or a small salad or something very healthy, can only do good, as long as it's not just random snacking.
So my personal extra rule is that I allow myself a fourth meal, so long as it's small and healthy. Like a yogurt and fruit, or a salad or a bowl of non chunky style soup, etc.
I find often that I don't want to have a fruit with dinner, but an hour or two later, it makes the perfect dessert.
You really want to be strict, but you shouldn't be so hungry that you are miserable, because you are trying to create *livable* habits that will last.
Hope it gets easier with time.
Have a good weekend.
8) Debs
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Post by magicman » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:38 am

Day 15: SUCCESS
Day 16: S-DAY
Day 17: S-DAY

Friday was much easier because I knew I just had to get to midnight, instead of Saturday morning.

Today I went an saw The Watchmen at IMAX, and they had a scale outside the bathroom... Now I didn't expect to be checking a scale this soon, but...

414 pounds on day 16. That's 23 pounds so far! NOTE: FAULTY SCALE. SEE BELOW.

And really, I didn't go very crazy on this S-Day compared to last weekend. I'm feeling like I'm rounding some corner. Of course, this is me on an S-Day saying that. Let's see how I feel on Wednesday, hmm?
Last edited by magicman on Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by blue » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:53 pm

Congrads on your weight loss!!! How was the movie? I want to see it but I dont have extra $ for a bad movie.

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Post by magicman » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:01 pm

I'm a huge fan of the original comic book, so I expected to hate it. The comic is amazing, and important in the history of graphic novels. It is fundamentally a deconstruction of the superhero comic, and for that to work, it must be in the comic book medium.

So the movie loses points immediately. To effectively be a critique of superhero movies would require completely changing everything. Instead of doing that they kept very very close to the source material, which, to my mind, means they reduced by far the distance the movie falls from the heights of the comic.

So, I liked it. My friend I went with hadn't read the comic and he also liked it. It's 2 hours 43 minutes long, but it didn't feel like it. It's rated R and it definitely earns that R, just as it should have. It's not one for the kids.

Overall I enjoyed the movie, and I'm glad it wasn't bad because this will lead to more people reading the source work. And that's my real suggestion, to buy the graphic novel. It's better, and you'll have something to keep besides a memory.

I love both medium's, graphic novels and film, and this story is better served by the former. And all in all, I expected to be able to give a worse review than that.

It's not a bad movie, and if you already have some reason to want to see it, I wouldn't expect you would think it's bad. I saw it in IMAX, and it was packed. It's 2 hours 43 minutes, and I didn't see anyone fall asleep or walk out.

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Post by blue » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:03 pm

Thanks for the review. Whew thats a long movie. Maybe today isn't the day for it. I do no s on Sundays and thats too long to smell popcorn. I havn't read the book but it sounds interesting. The fact it still held up for you somewhat is a good sign. I'm going to to Barnes/ Noble so I'll take a look at it. Thanks again

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Post by magicman » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:08 pm

Day 18: SUCCESS

Weekend was light. Was on the same pattern of eating as N-days, but indulged in some very good ice cream.

Monday and Friday are the easy days for me, Monday because I got to eat whatever I want and Friday because I'm about to be able to eat whatever I want.

So it was an easy day. Had a late dinner because I had to fix my brother's computer and show up for play auditions, so it was late when I got home.

Wednesday's and Thursday's are difficult for me, and this week those are days 20 and 21. Already, I'm feeling like I've rounded a corner, but we'll see how I feel in a couple days.

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Re: magicman's Check In

Post by RedChina » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:18 pm

magicman wrote:This is the last time I'll likely be weighing myself until I reach some milestone. Ten months maybe? When you can lose an entire person and still be fat, the scale stops being meaningful.

...

Today I went an saw The Watchmen at IMAX, and they had a scale outside the bathroom... Now I didn't expect to be checking a scale this soon, but...

414 pounds on day 16. That's 23 pounds so far!
Magicman, I would suggest you check out FitDay. It's what I use for my charts/info (the web version is completely free). You can go and put in a goal and a goal date, and your current weight (you can backdate it from when you started, and that day's weight as well.

You said it won't have meaning to weigh yourself, but I think you're wrong! You are surely having issues changing ingrained habits, but when you watch those pounds melt off, the reward of that will make you that much more committed to the lifestyle change!

Definitely don't wait ten months between weigh-ins. I would suggest weighing once a week so you don't get discouraged. Also make sure the weigh-ins are at the same time of the day; I weigh right after waking up and using the restroom wearing only underwear, so that my weigh-ins are consistent. I'm OCD and I love numbers and measurements, so I try to weigh daily, knowing I'll have plateaus (I've done this before).

I think not only will weighing once a week and charting your weight loss help you, but it'll help others who will read your story and you will be their inspiration. I'm proud of you, good luck, and I look forward to reading about your progress, both mental and physical.

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Post by magicman » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:50 pm

Day 19: SUCCESS

I'll reconsider more regular weigh-ins, then. Maybe every two weeks or so.

But at the moment I feel better focusing on perfect compliance. I like looking at losing weight as a side effect, not a result. And I honestly don't have a goal in terms of weight and time.

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Post by RedChina » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:10 pm

magicman wrote:But at the moment I feel better focusing on perfect compliance. I like looking at losing weight as a side effect, not a result. And I honestly don't have a goal in terms of weight and time.
That's a really good attitude. Changing habits seems to be a good way to effect results, or at least that's my perception so far. I've started plateauing, so I may start weighing less frequently myself, so that I don't get discouraged.

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Post by magicman » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:06 am

Day 20: SUCCESS
Day 21: SUCCESS

It's getting easier all the time.

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Post by magicman » Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:22 pm

Day 22: S-DAY
Day 23: S-DAY
Day 24: S-DAY

Day 22 is a S-Day for Friday the 13th. Day 23 was Pi Day, but also Saturday. This coming week, Friday will also be an S-Day for the Vernal Equinox.

If I had decided to count Friday as an N-Day, it would be green, but I think Friday the 13th is a S-Day for me, so I mark it exempt instead of success even though it would have been a success. In the same way, I don't exactly plan on really behaving in S-Day fashion this coming Friday.

Still, psychologically, it feels important to mark the S-Days as S-days.

This was a really easy week. That's very encouraging. I'm thinking of scaling back portion sizes and seeing how I do.

And I'm eating far less than I would have on an S-Day before No S, but it's still more than N-Days, and it's strange how my body reacts.

I especially am finding it harder to go to bed when I've eaten so close to when I'm going to bed. And I love Waffle House third shift! This diet definitely helps me get to bed early. As soon as I wake up, I get breakfast.

And I feel like I've eaten to much at a level that would have just been normal pre No-S.

I will say this though. Neither quitting smoking nor No S have made me enjoy food more, or made food taste better.

And now that I'm over the 21 day hump, I can't really say I feel very hungry ever as I know hunger. And for most of my life I've felt like I was starving 24/7 and that every meal would be my last. I feel the stomach acid start flowing at lunch time if I'm half an hour late eating lunch, though. I wouldn't call that hunger though. Maybe that my body is used to breaking down fat for extra energy at the moment? That that is making not feel hungry? I dunno.

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Post by magicman » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:47 pm

NO S:
Day 25: SUCCESS

I couldn't finish my supper!

My breakfast is a very reasonable bowl of cereal, and my lunch is usually a chicken biscuit. Suppertime is when I really fill up a plate to get me through to the next morning's bowl of cereal.

And I couldn't finish my plate! Does the stomach's capacity expand and shrink over time? I thought that was a myth.

I haven't been having those 10 or 11 O'clock cravings though, so I guess it's time to scale down how much I'm adding onto my third plate of the day.

SHOVELGLOVE:
Starting Friday. Need to buy my sledge and timer. Need to decide on 8# or 10# sledge. Need to decide what behaviour change to implement on April 20. And I need to decide if I'm actually going to roll a couple of other behaviour changes into Shovelglove or if that's asking too much.

This is the main one: I have a tendency to wake up late and rush to work. I'm often late to work. Right now I'm planning on making Shovelglove be the first thing I do after getting out of bed, so I can pop into the shower right after. So I'm thinking of adding BED@MIDNIGHT to what I'm going to start this 20th. I think that would work better for me than UP@8.

I really need to find an Everyday System for time management that fits for me. I always feel like I have so much to do, and so little time for anything. I also need an Everyday System for budgeting, but that one definitley isn't getting rolled into this coming month.

Other ideas I have for monthly resolutions are practicing my mandolin and DAILYRITUAL. I think DAILYRITUAL will be added to my habitcal this month as well.

So this month's daily resolutions are SHOVELGLOVE, BED@MIDNIGHT, and DAILYRITUAL. Maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew, but then I've no red days yet. Nothing wrong with pushing a bit and seeing what my limits are.

Also, I've been feeling in a bit of a funk recently. Kinda sad at how slow change can be. It's going to be a long while until I get where I really want to be.

But I've been thinking a lot about the tipping point. That there is some level that, in dietary terms, if you're over, you gain weight, if you're under, you lose weight.

Like the caterpillar climbing up a wall that slides back two inches every day. The tipping point is two inches. Go more than two inches a day and you move on up. Go less and you slide on down.

What's important is trying to go at least two inches every day, it isn't important to go for five inches. Because as long as we are on the right side of the tipping point, time is our ally.

I don't know what my tipping points are. But I know I'm on the wrong side of a lot of them still. And some of them I still have no idea how I'm ever going to get on the right side of.

But the slow steady burn of the alchemists is what is going to create lasting change, is going to turn the lead that I am into gold.

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Post by magicman » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:02 am

Day 26: SUCCESS
Day 27: SUCCESS
Day 28: SUCCESS
Day 29: S-Day
Day 30: S-Day
Day 31: S-Day

Not much to say.

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You're doing great!

Post by la_loser » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:19 am

MM,
Enjoy these S days. . . and don't get in a funk about how long your journey may be. Remember that you're already ahead of where you were a month ago when you began No S. You've begun to take charge of your own destiny and that's the hardest part.

Now that some of the novelty has worn off, it's perfectly normal to get a little down when you consider what may be ahead, but look at it this way--it's one day at a time. . . It's like that in in new relationships with people so why wouldn't it be now.? You're building new habits and a new and healthy relationship with food.

You should be proud of yourself for your success so far--not just with No S but also in kicking the smoking habit. It seems to me you've accomplished a lot already!

I hope you find some really good S day goodies that will be worthy of calling them treats!
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:30 pm

Congratulations on your 25 days of Success Magicman!!
Don't let yourself linger on depressing thoughts.
They are really self defeating.
Look at yourself!! You are doing this!!
Way to go!!!
Stay positive and hope you have a great weekend!!!
I am rooting for you!!!
8) Debs x
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Post by magicman » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:58 pm

Just weighed in.

446.5

Well, I've done three weigh-ins, and on three different scales. This is the scale that I'm going to be using from here on in.

I don't think I've gained weight. I guess both the other scales just weren't accurate, even though they claimed to be accurate up to 500 pounds.

This scale is a garage scale that race cars are weighed on, and race car rules require very precise weights, so I'm sure these scales are accurate.

You know, I thought 23 pounds seemed questionable. But it was a drastic reduction of calories for me. I think maybe I eat 1/4 the calories I did before. And I figured my rate of loss would be fasted up front.

But I don't know if really am finding it easier to get into my car, or my pants looser.

I'm trying not to let this get me down. I'm telling myself that I have lost weight, I just don't really know what my starting point was now.

And progress over a month doesn't matter anyway, especially with how much I have to lose.

In no way did I lose a month's of progress, I have better eating habits, and a better relationship with food.

And I really really need to keep repeating that to myself over and over.

I'm glad it's an S-day.

Because at the moment I feel like I have no evidence that this last month has done any good at all.

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Scale readings

Post by la_loser » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:36 pm

I know that my scales at home don't give the same weight as the one at my doctor's office--but I'm pretty confident that the loss of pounds is pretty similar. In other words, if beginning weight on doc's scales said 150 then the next time said 145, then my scales at home would have started with 145 then would reflect 140. (Just made up those numbers--how I wish those were mine!) So it would still be a five pound difference. So the total pounds isn't really the issue, but the difference between readings on one scale would be more accurate. . . or at least that's my take on it. And now you've found a scale to stick with, you'll have something to compare to.

I also found with my regular bathroom scales that they tend to not really "reset" themselves accurately between weighings. I have learned to "trick" them into resetting by putting one foot on the scale until it finds a reading--significantly less than a real weight--usually about 40 or so pounds. Then let it turn off then weigh myself. (and these were not cheap scales!) Otherwise it rarely registered a difference. Strange.

I know it's frustrating; I've been there-but with time (it definitely took more than a month for me!) you will see some change and certainly as you said, you're viewing food in a whole new way and that's got to be a step in the right direction! You KNOW you're eating less and it WILL start to show. Patience is such a virtue! And remember that "watched pot" that never boils.--gee I sound like my grandmother!

ENJOY your S days!
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by Freedom » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:07 pm

I am sorry about the discouragement of the varying scales. This has been a successful month, just saying no on the N days is a success and I think the weight will come. It seems that at the beginning we are still just getting used to the system. After that we can require more of ourselves. I am sure you will find a loss next month if you continue on and use the same scales. :wink:
Wife of 14 years and homeschooling Mama to 4 blessings. DD 9, DS 7, and DBT (dear boy twins) 5.

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Post by magicman » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:58 am

Day 32: SUCCESS
Day 1: SUCCESS

Okay, then. It's Day 1 of Shovelglove, since the last three days were S-Days. I had a great Equinox celebration, which helped me decide that I'm going to put off Daily Ritual to next month. And Bed@12 also is going to be a guideline and not a rule for now. Also, from here on, I'll be negative tracking No S. I'll keep posting about the diet, but the Day at the top of the post will be for the current monthly resolution.

So, today, for ten minutes, I swung around a ten pounds sledgehammer. I couldn't get myself to 14, but I figured that's okay. I just improvised movements and numbers from what felt right. And it really did feel like a good workout. My heartrate was up when I sat back down, I noticed. My arms were feeling quite sore. I wonder how they'll feel in the morning.

Diet is still going just fine.

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Post by Finnigan » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:04 pm

Hello Magicman.

"Meaningful will be not having difficulties wiping myself after going to the bathroom."

This was my wakeup call some time back as well. I started SG and No-S and Urban Ranger at around 290-295lbs. I lost ~20lbs, then gained it back over the holidays. I'm now getting started with the three habits again as I had fallen off the wagon.

The interresting thing is that even though there hasn't been a huge loss in weight for me (yet?) I have noticed the above problem has gone away, along with problems soaping up in the shower, AND I have noticed I have gone down notches in my belt. I have gone down more than I can account for by the fact that leather stretches.

Another thing I was noticing was there were changes in my legs, upper body and arms from the exercise.

I guess my point is don't just use weight as your benchmark. Look for other changes. You will likely see them before a great deal of change on the scale. At least that is what I found.

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Post by guadopt1997 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:58 pm

I think you're doing great but 'm curious why the equinox, Pi Day (whatever that is), and Friday the 13th count as S days for you.
Liz
Weight goal: less than I weigh now
Basic goal: doing no-S for life

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Post by magicman » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:36 am

guadopt1997, we get to determine our own S-days. Those days are special to me.

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Post by VintageGeek » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:38 pm

Pi Day is held on March 14 of every year, and at 1:59 pm you consume a piece of pie. It's not like an all day celebration or anything, it's just a piece of pie.

Why is it called Pi day instead of Pie day?

Pi = 3.14159. Do you see it? 3.14 = March 14. 159 = 1:59 pm.
8-bit is still awesome.

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Post by magicman » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:49 pm

Day 2: S-Day

Yesterday was a crazy day. I had to be out the door four hours earlier than usual and I didn't get home until midnight. I had no control over my schedule or where I was going, what I was doing. I literally did not have 14 minutes to spare to Shovelglove, so it's an exempt day.

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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:28 pm

Haha!!! The things only geeks know! :wink:
There is no Wisdom greater than Kindness

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Post by magicman » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:12 am

Day 3: SUCCESS?

I only made it five minutes today. Maybe I should have got an 8# sledge. And I'm not having fun. It's hard, and I find it boring and repetitive. I guess I call it a success though, because I did actually pick up my sledge.

Five minutes is a much longer time than I imagined. I turned and looked at my timer thinking ten minutes must have passed, and three had. This is not fun. I kinda hate it.

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Post by magicman » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:38 am

Day 4: SUCCESS

7 minutes. Two minutes better than yesterday. I really dread picking up the sledge. Maybe I should have gotten the 8#.

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Post by magicman » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:16 am

Friday: FAIL

No good excuse, but I didn't pick up my sledge. I haven't fit it into the time before leaving in the morning, and I get home and don't feel like doing anything.

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Post by magicman » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:51 am

Monday: FAIL

*sigh*

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Post by VintageGeek » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:39 pm

It's cool! You're cool! Everything's cool! No-S is a benevolent master. It has already forgiven you. :)
8-bit is still awesome.

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Post by magicman » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:27 pm

VintageGeek,

I'm still doing fine with No-S. I'm now working on Shovelglove.

Apparently I've discovered how to get myself to stop doing things (smoking, snacking, etc) but getting myself to do something, well, still need to work out that part of the puzzle.

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Post by magicman » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:40 am

Tuesday: FAIL

Almost took a sick day, but then found out I couldn't really. Ended up putting in a very long day.

Home at about 10PM and picking up a sledgehammer just wasn't going to happen.

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Post by magicman » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:56 pm

Monthly Resolution Shovelglove: FAIL

Giving up Shovelglove. Will reschedule it for a try, try again some other month. Next two months are already penciled in. Maybe June 20.

I weighed Saturday. 455 WTF?

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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:01 pm

Hi Magicman.
I really wouldn't give that readout too much credence.
I think that most scales are probably only accurate to a certain point, and you said you were using a scale for cars or something.. Anyway..
It's a little hard to follow your progress on this thread as you have been tracking NoS and then you switched to negative tracking and used this for Shovelglove... *but* if you have been keeping on track with the three rules of NoS, I'm sure you will lose weight.
I would strongly recommend, especially in your case where the numbers may really be inaccurate due to the kind of scale you have, to just go by your habits, and how your clothing feels, as well as getting a tape measure and once in a while, measuring your waistline. I wouldn't even bother with weighing yourself for a few months to be honest. When Reinhard started doing this, before it became an official diet, he stayed off the scale for about two months and only focused on his habits.
In that time, he ended up losing 20 lbs.
Don't get psyched out.
I also agree with your decision to forget about Shovelglove.
From what you said, it sounded like torture!!
You will do exercise if you find something you enjoy.
How about walking?
Stay positive and good luck!
8) Debs
There is no Wisdom greater than Kindness

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Post by Kathleen » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:58 am

magicman,

Does it really matter if you weigh 437 pounds or 414 pounds or 455 pounds?

The reality is that you are going to be morbidly obese for a long time.

Try focusing on No S as a cure for disordered eating. This is about eating in the present, not about weight in the present. If you focus on eating in the present, then you can be successful TODAY. If you focus on weight, you'll be disappointed by ups and downs on the scale. Also, you aren't going to be a normal weight TODAY no matter what you do.

If you cure the disordered eating by developing habits that are normal eating habits. the weight will come off -- yes, slowly; yes, inconsisently; and yes, with certainty.

I know it's hard. I've followed my version of this diet perfectly for 7 months, and today my husband saw me in a swimsuit for the first time since last summer. All he could say was, "Wow." The "Wow" was not complimentary. It was more a tease. He knows it's hard for me. I wish I could be thin this summer, but the reality is that it will take perhaps three years for me to get off 60 pounds.

The weight will be gone for good, though. That's the real draw of this diet. If you focus on the weight on the scale, you are focusing on a symptom of disordered eating. If you focus on the disordered eating, you are focusing on the cause of your obesity.

Kathleen

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Post by magicman » Tue May 26, 2009 3:21 am

I've still been No-Sing, but I haven't weighed since the last time I mentioned. I don't think I've lost any weight at all, judging from clothing, though I've stuck with it.

Last Wednesday (a 20th) I started weightlifting with a friend of mine who is out of college for the summer. Next 20th... I'm going to go on low-carb again. Twice before it has worked for me, I just couldn't keep it off. At the moment, I'm in a place where I just need some off so that I can exercise more effectively. I need better range of movement, more mobility. I need the weight to come off.

And when I do come off Adkin's, I won't be coming off No-S, so I hope I won't yo-yo back again. And I'm not going to stop exercising, I'm hoping to expand my workout routines at the gym once some of this weight is no longer stressing joints and getting in the way of certain movements.

And I still haven't had a smoke since the Bush administration.

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awesome

Post by la_loser » Tue May 26, 2009 4:52 am

MM,I was wondering about you recently too & figured you were quietly doing your own thing. Kudos for taking on the exercise program &oat impressively, cutting out the smoking. What great steps toward taking charge of your own life!!!
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by magicman » Wed May 27, 2009 6:06 am

I actually had a chat with a friend of mine and I'm not as certain I'm going to go low carb.

I had mentioned to him that No-S wasn't really working for me for weight loss, though it had worked to get my eating habits more under control.

And he asked me questions like what my body fat % is, what my current weight is, how many calories I burn a day, how many calories I eat a day. And I explained about the problems I had with scales, and that I'm not an accountant, etc.

He pointed out to me that I have no idea where I am since I don't have any statistics. His argument was that the reason I was fat was a lack of information. He made me promise to buy a scale that was rated over 500 lbs and a body fat percentage device before I got away from him.

He also asked me if I had read The Hacker's Diet ( http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html ), and when I said no, he made me promise to read it.

Well, I really really liked what I read in The Hacker's Diet. I had a lot of AH-HA moments. So I think I'm going to start charting my daily weight and body fat % on http://www.physicsdiet.com/ and really paying attention to calorie counts for a bit to get a handle over time on how many calories my body is burning per day, and how many calories I'm putting in.

I think that at some point I may be able to stop tracking calories, but I think one of the reasons I've not been a big success on No-S is that I really do not have any idea on what a reasonable portion looks like. My plates haven't been getting smaller over time.

So I consider this No-S phase two. I'm going to stick still to no sweets, no snacks, no seconds. I'm no longer going to restrict the amount of meals I have, though, except as a natural extension of when I'm hungry and how many calories I've budgeted for a day.

My friend teaching me weight lifting will probably insist that I get so much protein every day, as well.

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Post by Kathleen » Wed May 27, 2009 10:54 am

"Twice before it has worked for me, I just couldn't keep it off. "

You know what made me realize that lack of willpower is not the reason why people fail at dieting? A former coworker who was on her third attempt at Weight Watchers after losing 40 pounds the prior two times.

I know it is hard to see past the numbers on the scale today, but this diet works by curing disordered eating first. Then you lose weight, and the weight loss is permanent.

My 15 year old daughter has gained 20 pounds in the last year and has been on No S since October. My husband was blaming me for that. Well, yes, I am to blame, but I see past the scale. When she was 9, I remember my husband remarking on her weight. I told him that I wasn't so much concerned about the weight as I was by the eating habits.

I feel the same way now. Sure, she's big. She's in the 93rd percentile for weight for her age. What I also see, however, is that her eating is becoming calmer and more orderly. I think weight loss will follow. Even if it doesn't, I think she's better off at a higher weight without a food obsession.

Think about it. You are being enticed by the promise of quicker weight loss that is not sustainable with the diet you have chosen, as your own experience proves. Stick with vanilla No S.

Kathleen

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Post by Thalia » Wed May 27, 2009 4:38 pm

Even if it doesn't, I think she's better off at a higher weight without a food obsession.
I think that's incredibly wise. I really believe that being heavy is much less of a risk than disordered eating is -- I wish so much that I hadn't tried so many wacky diets and felt so bad about my body as a teenager and young woman, that's how I become a binge eater. And I wasn't even fat!

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Post by magicman » Wed May 27, 2009 10:48 pm

Kathleen,

I find your posts to be aggressive and non supportive. I'm acutely aware that text only mediums lack a lot of the nuance that face to face communication has, so it's certainly possible that is not your intent, but I would ask you to not post in my thread if you are going to try to tear me down or criticize me unconstructively. Your previous post hurt and I felt it demonstrated a lack of compassion and understanding of my case and the attitudes that I am bringing to my attempt to transform myself. It was not a small factor in me not posting here for so long.

To get this off my chest I'm going to respond aggressively to both of your posts now.
Does it really matter if you weigh 437 pounds or 414 pounds or 455 pounds?
Yes, it does. It is a metric of whether I am moving in the direction I want to be moving.
The reality is that you are going to be morbidly obese for a long time.
Believe me, I'm quite aware of how long this is going to take, but I'd much rather it take two years than ten years. And I hate the term "morbidly obese" Let's look at morbid.

Synonyms:
2. unwholesome, diseased, unhealthy, sick, sickly; tainted, corrupted, vitiated.

Antonyms:
1. cheerful. 2. healthy.

Funny, I'm generally quite cheerful, and I'm certainly not diseased. And of course tainted and corrupted gets to that whole value judgment that I find is wrapped up in the word. I'm not a bad person, I'm just fat.

If you think I'm a tainted or corrupt person for being fat, please never post in this thread, and I'd prefer you take that attitude far away from anyone struggling with issues such as mine.
Try focusing on No S as a cure for disordered eating. This is about eating in the present, not about weight in the present. If you focus on eating in the present, then you can be successful TODAY. If you focus on weight, you'll be disappointed by ups and downs on the scale. Also, you aren't going to be a normal weight TODAY no matter what you do.
I WAS focusing on No S as a cure for disordered eating. And it helped. But not enough. I do not accept that I'll be disappointed by the ups and downs on the scale, because from here on, I'm going to focusing on the trend line which will not jerk up and down erratically.

I also hate the conflation with normalcy and weight. I AM at a normal weight right now. It's quite normal for me, and I don't accept you suggesting that I'm abnormal.
If you cure the disordered eating by developing habits that are normal eating habits. the weight will come off -- yes, slowly; yes, inconsistently; and yes, with certainty.

I know it's hard. I've followed my version of this diet perfectly for 7 months, and today my husband saw me in a swimsuit for the first time since last summer. All he could say was, "Wow." The "Wow" was not complimentary. It was more a tease. He knows it's hard for me. I wish I could be thin this summer, but the reality is that it will take perhaps three years for me to get off 60 pounds.

The weight will be gone for good, though. That's the real draw of this diet. If you focus on the weight on the scale, you are focusing on a symptom of disordered eating. If you focus on the disordered eating, you are focusing on the cause of your obesity.
The weight has not certainly came off, slowly or not. And I don't think inconsistency is a hallmark of a working diet. The fundamental fact is that to lose weight we must eat less calories than we burn to lose weight.

No S has certainly helped me reduce the amount of calories I put in, but I don't think it has gotten me below the magic number, or if it has, not by much. And considering my weight, that magic number should still be very high.

Let's looks at 60 pounds in three years. That would mean 210,000 calories less over those three years eaten than burned. That's 191.78 per day, not taking S days into account. A 200 calorie per day deficit isn't that great. Double it to a 400 calorie a day deficit, and that 60 pounds will be gone instead in a year and a half.

As for disordered eating, my eating must still be disordered no matter what the reasons are. No S has been one piece of the puzzle. I'm grateful for it. For most people, like those with under 30 pounds to lose, cutting out the three S's should create a calorie deficit sufficient for their needs.

But I need to learn more than that. My eyes don't know what excess looks like yet, to use No S terms. The suggestions that plate sizes will get smaller over time on their own didn't happen for me.

I do not agree that focusing on the scale is focusing on a symptom of disordered eating. I see it at this point as information gathering which is needed for me to create an artificial feedback system for myself to replace the internal one that doesn't work. If you want to continue back to root causes, one can then push back to what is the cause for disordered eating, and I found that answer in The Hacker's Diet. It's a broken feedback system, that works well in skinny people, slightly off in overweight people, and completely busted in people like me. You can read the chapter here: http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/chapter1_2_3.html

The scale and the body fat percentage analyzer is going to help me create an artificial feedback system to replace the broken one.
You know what made me realize that lack of willpower is not the reason why people fail at dieting? A former coworker who was on her third attempt at Weight Watchers after losing 40 pounds the prior two times.
I believe people fail because we never address the root cause, a broken feedback system.
I know it is hard to see past the numbers on the scale today, but this diet works by curing disordered eating first. Then you lose weight, and the weight loss is permanent.
Again, obviously it didn't cure it for me. Partially effective treatment, yes. Cure, no. Weight loss is not guaranteed, as you can certainly eat more than enough calories in three plates a day.
My 15 year old daughter has gained 20 pounds in the last year and has been on No S since October. My husband was blaming me for that. Well, yes, I am to blame, but I see past the scale. When she was 9, I remember my husband remarking on her weight. I told him that I wasn't so much concerned about the weight as I was by the eating habits.
20 pounds in a year is again 191.78 extra calories per day. That's really not a lot, and it's really easy to put that extra amount on a plate. And that is STILL DISORDERED EATING. That is still evidence that the feedback system isn't turning on and telling the person to stop eating at the right time. You should be concerned about the weight, because if she's gaining weight, the habit she has is not a good one.
I think weight loss will follow. Even if it doesn't, I think she's better off at a higher weight without a food obsession.
This isn't either/or. You don't have to have a "food obsession" to lose weight.
Think about it. You are being enticed by the promise of quicker weight loss that is not sustainable with the diet you have chosen, as your own experience proves. Stick with vanilla No S.
What isn't sustainable about it, huh? You seem to no nothing about what my own experience proves or you wouldn't be feeding me this tripe. Vanilla No S is only one piece of the picture that is going to create in me the transformation I desire, sticking only to the incomplete picture is failure. If you want to fail, I don't mind, but I'm not going to!

-----

Now, Kathleen, I imagine you didn't like reading me telling you how wrong you are about the decisions you are making. I don't like it either. There is nothing to be gained by people arguing over their diets. So please keep it out of my thread, just as I had the courtesy not to find yours and past this there. I'd prefer this thread be for encouragement, feedback, advice, and sure, critique, as long as it is compassionate and constructive.

Please keep that in mind if you choose to continue posting in this thread.

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Over twenty positives. . .

Post by la_loser » Thu May 28, 2009 1:35 am

Well, for the record, I count over twenty positive and supportive replies on your thread since you began. . . I do know that it's easy to let the pain of harsh words cancel out all the kind ones you've received, but please believe that you have many folks out here who are pulling for you to succeed however YOU choose to do it.

Just as others have made their own modifications to No S, hopefully after giving it a real fair shot, it seems to me that you are making these choices and changes willy nilly and perhaps this is your "mod' that may work for you.

So concentrate on the positive and do your best to let this go. You have to take care of you in a way that will work for you. I, for one, am saddened that you have been reluctant to post because you were concerned about what seemed to be insensitive comments. I, too, flinched when I read those posts. I can't imagine that the comments were truly intentionally mean although they certainly came across that way.

So do continue to post and often and you will find a lot of readers who will rise up in support I think. Although many of us have had our own issues for whatever reason, I hope that none of us would support hurtful posts. One of the awesome elements of No S is the positive and supportive tone of these boards.

You have a big group of people, cheering you on. . . hang in there! :lol:
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by magicman » Thu May 28, 2009 4:31 am

LA_Loser, those comments were directed to one person only. I'm grateful that her posts were the exceptions and not the rule.

Another reason of course that I've not been posting was I had nothing really to report until now. No S became so natural that I felt like I wasn't on a diet. But it's time to go on one now.

I've bought a scale that is rated up to 550 pounds, and it will be my default scale from now on. I'll have my official starting weight When the UPS truck brings it, and I'll update the thread.

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Post by Kathleen » Thu May 28, 2009 11:41 am

magicman,
I appreciate the feedback. You see, I have a sister in law who is very overweight and who is also one of the kindest and most generous people I know. She tried combining No S with low carb, and it didn't work. I saw her in May and said not a thing. Guess what? I'm not going to say anything. I'll stick with telling my story when asked and not advising anyone. Weight loss is a very sensitive topic, and I never learned how to give advise without giving offense so I stick to not giving advice unless asked.
Kathleen

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Post by Kodama » Thu May 28, 2009 7:14 pm

magicman,

It's so cool to find someone else who found the hacker's diet! I've been using the hacker's diet online site for keeping my stats, but the Physics Diet site you posted about looks great too! I think I'll set up an account there as well... :)

I find that the Hacker's Diet and No S Diet seem to go hand in hand. I'm a big numbers and stats guy, so I love watching my stats.

As to your up and down scale readings, I think that will minimize once you start your new scale, AND ONLY that scale. Also, everybody is different, but I have found that large salt intake really does cause my body to hold on to more water weight. It then takes a few days to get that excess salt and water out my body.

Anyway, keep at it dude!

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Post by magicman » Fri May 29, 2009 5:12 am

Scale came. 442 pounds. Hacker's Diet begins Monday. Starting out I'm going to allow myself 1500 calories on N-days, 2000 calories on S-days. Body fat percentage monitor will be here tomorrow.

My friend who is teaching me weightlifting tells me I should be eating 150 grams of protein a day, which seems like a lot. I could fit 150 grams of protein in fine, but fitting them inside my 1500 calories? Looks like I'm going to have some fun with math.

I've been looking at calorie counts on things the last couple of things, and I think I'm going to be able to do this. It's going to be a big reduction, but one that I think I can manage.

sgstarling, I haven't looked closely at the Hacker's Diet online tool set, but I know that once your data is in PhysicsDiet.com, you can export it to load into other tools. So it's just a thought, but check and see if you can export and load data. As I said, I'm only starting the stats on Monday officially, but I'll be posting a link here to my public profile once it goes live.

PhysicsDiet has it's own boards, but I think I like this community better overall, and I'm going to keep up this thread. Especially the first 21 days starting Monday.

As for salt, I'm not worried about water weight. I'm looking forward to comparing body fat % to weight over time, especially as I'm beginning weight lifting at the same time.

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Post by Kodama » Fri May 29, 2009 12:13 pm

The Hacker's Diet online does allow data export as CSV or XML, as an option under Utilities.

I put in a month's data at physicsdiet.com, and I don't like the charts as much. I prefer the charting options and trend summaries at HD online. But you said you want to track Body Fat %, and HD online doesn't do that. Aw heck, if you're not sure, try both for a month since both are free.

Confession time: I'm tracking my weight loss using Hacker's Diet Online, AND my own version of it using Google Docs, AND a separate Google Doc Spreadsheet that compares my current weight to my goal weight. Somehow, keeping the stats motivates me.

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Post by reinhard » Fri May 29, 2009 3:14 pm

magicman,

Good luck combining hackers + no-s!

I'm not a huge fan of results stats for this kind of thing, but it certainly is compatible with no-s. And if you're going to weigh at all, you might as well be scientific about it.

I do like compliance stats, of course. And I would like to add something that could overlay habitcal compliance stats with results stats... I'll check out the weight (etc.) trackers on these sites. I'm just wrapping up my next podcast episode. This might be a good project after.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

Reinhard

P.S. Not to revive this whole thing, but I really don't think Kathleen meant any harm...

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Post by magicman » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:23 pm

Hacker's Diet Day 1: SUCCESS

And we're off! Welcome to June!

Official starting stats:

443.8 Pounds
47.2% Body Fat


I actually think that percentage is probably low, but the device I'm using to measure it seems to be consistent, so at any rate, I should be able to observe changes over time.

So far today I've had 1055 calories and 136 grams of protein, and I feel fine.

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Post by Kodama » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:51 pm

I've had poor results with the couple body fat % devices I've tried. One was built into a scale, the other was a handheld device. Readings were erratic over time. For me, belt notch adjustments seemed to be a better fat level indicator... :lol:

Perhaps they've improved them...
--- Stephen ---
My No S Diet Progress
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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Post by magicman » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:28 am

I'm using the Omron HBF-306C. I can't vouch for it, but I'm going to use it daily and see. Can always ditch the stats if I decide they are bad data.

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Post by magicman » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:41 am

Hacker's Diet:
Day 2: Success
Day 3: Success
Day 4: Success
Day 5: Success

I went over 1500 calories a few days, but I didn't break 2000, so I'm calling this week a success.

Weight is going down. Body fat % is really uneven, and I think my body fat % is too high for this device to really work properly. But I'm going to continue recording it's measurements for now.

Now come my first Hacker's S days. 2000 calories seems like so much now!

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Post by magicman » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:42 pm

Everything is going really well.428.6 pounds, 46.3% body fat, as of this morning's measurements. If you'd like to see trend lines, hit the link in my signature.

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Post by mimi » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:54 pm

That's quite impressive magicman - keep up the great work!

Mimi :D
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Wow!

Post by la_loser » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:21 pm

Terrific progress-proud of you!
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by Kodama » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:55 pm

Nice work...

Keep this up and in a few months, you will freak out looking at the chart history. :)
--- Stephen ---
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Post by magicman » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:14 am

Still on track.

Best purchase I've made in such a long time: water bottle. I hate going out to eat with my office mates because they don't have anything I want to drink. They only have diet coke or tap water most places, and I can't stand either. But in our office we have English Mountain Spring Water in the water cooler which I LOVE. So I've been taking my own water with me to lunch. Cuts down on cost, and not a single restaurant has taken offense.

I realized today that I'm not out of breath when I get to the office! The combination of quitting smoking, weightlifting three hours a week, and dropping 15 pounds!

Five months since I quit smoking, and I'm still noticing increases in lung capacity, and I'm finally without a wheeze.

I'm noticing in general I'm stronger, too.

Great stuff.

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Post by mimi » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:02 am

What a feat to quit smoking - NOT an easy thing to do from what I understand. Congratulations on that and also being down 15 pounds! Excellent!

Mimi :D
Discovered NoS: April 16, 2007
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Quitting is not an option...
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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:11 pm

Way to go!!!! :D
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Post by magicman » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:41 am

This is Day 21 of Hacker's + No S, and at 9:30 PM I'm only at 1300 calories on the day. I don't know why it's 21 days, but there really is some sort of finality about the feeling I get on the 21st day... That feeling that this must be how I've always done things, it's so natural.

The weight is really coming off. I can really feel the difference in my clothes, in getting in and out of my car, and in other areas.

This also marks one month since I started going to the gym. At the 21 day point for that, I changed my workout from the generic body building style weight lifting my friend had been doing to a powerlifting style from the book Starting Strength since I am more concerned with functional strength than staring at myself in the mirror.

I feel like I have this on lock, that the habits that are now feeling natural will carry me a lower body fat percentage and greater strength.

I still have more changes in the future. One of these days I know I'm going to have to take nutrition more seriously than I do now. And in the exercise world, I'm not doing much for stamina. But those issues get to wait until what I'm already doing creates some amazing changes.

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Post by magicman » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:57 am

A new month, a new modification.

First, today is the first day the scale has read under 420 pounds. 418.4 according to the scale today. This morning the body fat % monitor said 46.1%.

This is also day two of my newest modification.

After dutifully recording my calorie intake for a month, I decided to give the practice up. I feel I gained greatly from the practice. I'm still keeping a running total in my head, but I'm not writing everything down.

I am now incorporating elements of the Protein Sparing Modified Fast into my diet. Honestly, I already had. The concept in essence is get 1 gram of protein every day per pound of lean muscle mass. And otherwise eat as few calories as possible. My current fat free weight is, according to my PhysicsDiet.com calculations, 226.6 pounds. The idea is as long as you're eating that much protein, weight lost will be fat lost, and not muscle lost. For more information see The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook.

As I'm also lifting heavy weights in the gym, it's also important to eat enough protein for muscle repair.

I'm currently getting 62G of Protein from a Protein Shake (milk + powder from TrueProtein.com; I'm currently trying all 41 of their flavors).

And 144G from the 4 chicken breasts the goes into the grilled chicken breast salad I have for dinner every day (today was day 2 of this).

That gets me to 208G. That leaves 18.6 grams accounted which I will get from lunch or maybe add some extra dairy in.

I'm eating a lot of baby spinach to get some good carbs, and a tiny amount of extra virgin olive oil for good fats. No other dressing goes into the salad than the small amount of olive oil. I'll also add some cheese or cucumbers or tomatoes or broccoli depending on mood and if I had lunch (which I'm now only doing if it is a social outing with work mates).

I'm also taking a whole food organic multivitamin (New Chapter Organics) and fish oil.

In the spirit of No S I'm allowing myself two S meals a week. These can be whatever I want, and it's probably going to end up being bread and pasta. Which is good, because I'm going to want to get at least 100 carbs in each of these meals.

The interesting thing to me is that both today and yesterday I'm feeling more full on less calories. Long live the grilled chicken salad!

I'm feeling better all the time. More energy, more mobility. The heavy weightlifting is really helping me feel good, even if it has a much smaller impact on weight loss than diet does. I almost feel like I feel better than 1 418 pound man has any right too!

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Good for you

Post by la_loser » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:46 am

Congrats on the weight loss so far and more importantly the gains you seem to have made in terms of feeling better and stronger and in control of your habits. Thanks for sharing!
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by Bushranger » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:12 am

Your fat free weight would be 226lb?! You must be a big fellow. Well done on the weight loss so far. :)

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Post by magicman » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:57 pm

It's not just another way of saying I'm fat, I do in fact have a wide frame. I'm also strong as an ox for an untrained guy. I jumped into the gym doing the same weight as my friend who has been bodybuilding for two years.

I've often thought that if people who looked fit would add the 300 pounds they have on me to a backpack, I'd be able to outperform them. ;)

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Post by mimi » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:47 pm

I almost feel like I feel better than 1 418 pound man has any right too!
That's awesome magicman! You go for it! And you're so smart to keep yourself fit...and we can do that at any size.

Mimi :D
Discovered NoS: April 16, 2007
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If you start to slip, tie a knot and hang on!
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Post by Bushranger » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:13 am

magicman wrote:It's not just another way of saying I'm fat, I do in fact have a wide frame. I'm also strong as an ox for an untrained guy. I jumped into the gym doing the same weight as my friend who has been bodybuilding for two years.
That's what I was thinking, about the large frame and musculature. 226lb lean is a big boy! :shock: My brother in law is like that and he's just muscles on muscles. Forgive me if it came across otherwise. :)

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Post by Bushranger » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:16 am

Hi again Magicman. I've noticed a few times through your thread here that hunger is a big issue. I myself get these hunger pangs on occasion and have found guzzling a large glass of water to be helpful.

Also, something to remember. The habit of eating all the time primes your body to be hungry often. When I first gave up morning tea and afternoon tea I was VERY hungry around the times they were supposed to be. See the body was expecting them and primed itself to eat. After about 2 weeks that stopped and now I only get the hunger when it's time for my 3 meals.

For example, I have been hungry for the last 30mins since its 1:15pm here and I should have eaten about 12:30pm. The body knows when it is going to eat and what it's used to. Retraining it is a big step in the process and also one of the hardest. And on that note, I'm off for lunch.

You can do it mate. Stay strong. :)

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Post by magicman » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:42 am

Hunger has actually been less of an issue as time has went on. Part of it has been body adjusting to new routines, but I've also started drinking more water, and the food I do eat is much more filling per calorie.

Ultimately I think a big reason I got fat was that I could eat 5000 calories of the food I liked and be less full than by eating 1000 calories of what I'm eating these days.

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Post by Kodama » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:53 am

Wow, magicman! I've really been impressed by both your progress and your positive attitude! :D
--- Stephen ---
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Post by Bushranger » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:51 pm

magicman wrote:Ultimately I think a big reason I got fat was that I could eat 5000 calories of the food I liked and be less full than by eating 1000 calories of what I'm eating these days.
Indeed. I notice this also and it's because the junk food is so calorie dense by volume but at the same time they are mostly empty calories so they don't leave you feeling full. I can put away a half dozen "fully loaded" doughnuts before I feel full (and soon after sick) and that is way more calories than a healthy meal to the same level of fullness. Actually those 6 doughnuts are probably more calories than I would eat in an entire day on average.

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Post by magicman » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:02 am

So... I've had a couple of nightmares... about loose skin.

One of them I feel like I'm trapped in a collapsed tent. Another I barely remembered, but remembered a mental picture of myself with lots of loose skin.

I need to get it off my chest, so I'm doing so here.

Okay, first off, the good news. Despite what some people may say, surgery is not the only option.

The bad news, from the research I've done, is that there will be a substantial period of time when I will have what appears to be lose skin.

From what I've read, people will reach their ideal body weight according to some chart, and wrongly assume that they are done, yet the skin remains. In fact, in these situations, they still have 20 pounds to go, while they have lost 20 pounds of lean mass that they need to get back.

In other words, once again, weight doesn't give the whole picture, and body fat % is a key. Until you are in single digit body fat %, what you have isn't lose skin, it's still pockets of fat. Largely deflated at that point, but not empty.

So how does this make me feel like I don't need to have any more nightmares?

Well, I'm getting my protein, and I'm lifting very heavy weights. And I'm progressively loading. Saturday I squatted 200 pounds 3 sets for five reps. When I started, I was only putting 95 pounds on my back. So I've doubled the amount of weight I'm adding for my squat. And I'm adding more every time I go into the gym. That's 200 pounds plus the 400+ I weigh! My friend who I'm going to the gym with is skinny, and he can't squat 200.

This minimizes the amount of lean body mass I will lose. Which doesn't mean none. A fair amount of total lean body mass, in my case 226 pounds, is not muscle, it is connective tissue that my body created to support this amount of fat. And it's perfectly fine for it to go away in time.

But maintaining and building muscle is half the battle in fighting "loose skin." I may never get down to my "ideal" body weight at all, but then those charts aren't written in stone. I do track my body fat %, and I know now that my goal is single digit.

So though the time in between may be ugly, I feel confident that someday I'll be "loose skin" free, and without surgery.

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Post by mimi » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:33 am

This is so interesting magicman. I truly hope that all of your research and hard work puts an end to your nightmares about loose skin. I'm rooting for you! Please keep us posted on your continued progress - single digit...here comes magicman!!

Mimi :D
Discovered NoS: April 16, 2007
Restarted once again: July 14, 2011
Quitting is not an option...
If you start to slip, tie a knot and hang on!
Remember that good enough is... good enough.
Strive for progress, not perfection!

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Post by magicman » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:50 am

Figured I should check in.

Um, not much to report. Still losing weight, still lifting weights. Weight on the body is going down, weight on the bar is going up. Both have slowed down a bit, but still going. Looking forward to getting below 400. It's coming.

My work out partner went back to college. So now I'm alone in the gym. Still going, though.

I don't think my job position will remain funded until 2010. That has me a bit worried. Job market isn't good around here.

Newest monthly resolution is to use Mnemosyne to help me memorize a bunch of information. I'm much better with concepts and analysis than memorization. Explain an idea, and I'll remember it forever, give me a list of figures and it's in one ear, out the other. I think this program is a real help.

Been a bit sad and lonely.

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