Kookie's Daily Check in

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

Moderators: Soprano, automatedeating

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:10 pm

Thanks jw! I know, it felt pretty interesting. I thought I was triggered by eating a not-great meal but actually I think the trigger may well have been underlying feelings. I never really get a chance to release them if I turn to food before they come into consciousness...

Just wanted to post again because my plans have changed tonight and I'm feeling a teensy bit apprehensive. I now have 2 girlfriends coming over to my house for supper and it's always nice to offer dessert and make a bit of a big deal of having friends over. I can't remember the last time I had friends over, I usually go out to restaurants if I'm meeting friends because we all live so far apart.

One of the girls is on a special diet and can't eat complex carbs (yawn!) so I'll probably just make a nice big salad with toasted pine nuts, grilled halloumi cheese, chicken thighs and some roasted veggies. But I will also make something carby for me and the other girl...not sure what. Maybe some butternut squash. I really don't want to take another S event because that'd be one 's' event last week and another this week and that feels too much and not really very safe.

So, just putting it out there....Gonna do my usual thing and keep it an N day and screw how it looks! Shouldn't look weird anyway as it's just a relaxed evening, I don't need to provide a 3-course meal!

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:51 pm

Hi Kookie

So great you're branching out socially--pub quizzes (had to google that!) and now having friends over for dinner! I agree you should probably keep it an N day. Everyone has such different eating habits that nobody will really notice if you keep to NoS. After all it's much more normal than the no carb thing.

As for dessert could you put out cookies and fruit (for low carb girl) and make coffee or tea? You could just say you're too full and stick to a beverage. Or would that be too tempting for you?

Just a thought but I know you'll figure it out & do great.

Linda :)
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:58 pm

Thanks so much Linda!! I know, I am really opening up to life - who'd have thought?!

Thanks so much for the suggestion - it's a good one. That's what I'll do, lay out some fruit and maybe even chocolate and just have a tea. I'll be fine, I'm pretty sure. If I feel a bit wobbly, I'll .... well, I'll just put them away quickly!

Glad you agree it's just an N... definitely. I have to maintain my integrity with the whole special occasions thing otherwise I fear a slippery slope! And a last minute supper with friends unless it's really special because I haven't seen them for 20 years or something is not 'special'.

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Post by automatedeating » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:36 pm

Good luck tonight, Kookie!
Someone once told me that saying things like, "No thanks, I'm pretty stuffed", instead of saying "I can't eat dessert tonight" is a much easier way of getting people to leave us alone about why we're not indulging. I have had good success with saying, "No thanks, I'm not really a snacker" or "I've just eaten, thanks anyway" rather than saying, "No thanks, I can't snack".

Let us know how it goes!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:00 am

Day 24 (yesterday): SUCCESS
B/ porridge with tahini
L/ nutty, quinoa, bean salad with greens and lots of dressing, 1 apple
S/ one (full) plateful of: chicken, chorizo, grilled halloumi, salad with pine nuts, green beans with sesame oil and sesame seeds, roasted veg, homous and 1.5 glasses of red wine
In between/ 1 latte, 4 milky teas, 1 miso soup (hot water with T of miso paste)

Last night my friends were delayed so they only got to me at 8:30pm!! I panicked at first because I was pretty hungry but just spoke to my Mum on the phone and had a milky tea and stayed calm. We ate at around 9:15pm. It was absolutely fine! I brought out some amazing cake for them afterwards to have with a cup of tea. I didn't have any and didn't feel deprived at all because I know the weekend is around the corner.

jw - thanks for the tips! Yeah, I learnt those tricks when I was in all those crazy 12-step fellowships and was on the most ridiculously awful food plans {shudder}. Thank god those days are over. I was so ashamed back then of what I was doing with food even though I was 'in recovery' because it was so weird and strict and excluded me from every social event imaginable. Now with NoS I don't feel that shame at all and am very quick to tell people about it if I sense they would be benefitted/interested (my friend last night is going to try it for a week - not the low carb friend, the other one!) and a colleague of mine is so into now too. I don't feel any shame with NoS like I used to with all the other things I've ever tried. A good sign, I think!

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Post by clarebear » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:04 am

very proud Kookie!! to get cake for your friends then not eat any is amazing!
:D
Finally found a lifestyle change, not a diet!
Starting weight 167 lbs
Goal is to lose 20lbs in time for my wedding!

jw
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Location: PA

Post by jw » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:20 am

Awesome commitment, Kookie -- I hope you saved yourself a piece for the upcoming S days!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:23 am

aw thanks Clarebear and jw!! I didn't find it difficult because I had such a delicious (and quite large) plateful of some of my favourite foods. And yes jw, I plan to have a delicious piece of carrot cake at some point over the weekend (my friends ate it all so I'll have to find some more :wink: ) hehe.

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:43 pm

Yay Kookie I so happy for you! You are doing so great on so many levels. Delayed gratification is the good kind of discipline and very doable. It's the banishment of treats forever that set us up for failure. Low-carb eating cake last night for example!

Have a great weekend and enjoy your experiment with structured S days.

Linda :)
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:52 pm

Hey Linda! I know, I felt a bit bad for my friend...I'd gone to all the trouble of preparing a low carb meal for her but then she ate a lot of cake and felt really terrible. I wasn't going to bring out the cake but when I mentioned it after supper they were both keen so I did. I was going to freeze it for myself for the weekend.

I must admit, I am looking forward to a treat or two now...

Reinhard is a very interesting man, he could've made a killing with this 'diet' if he'd marketed it slightly differently...I don't know what I'd have done if I hadn't found it one desperate night through a google search.

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Post by automatedeating » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:26 pm

Go kookie! Congrats on all aspects of last night, which presented several challenges!!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

jw
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Post by jw » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:22 pm

"Reinhard is a very interesting man, he could've made a killing with this 'diet' if he'd marketed it slightly differently..."

Agreed! We're all benefiting from that early computer geek ethos of generosity: if you create something beneficial, share it and make it available to as many people as possible. (Not so much of that in the IT world these days -- lots of monetizing going on). Anyway, I share your gratitude!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

Kittykat150
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Post by Kittykat150 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:32 pm

Here, here! This is a kind and generous place all around! It's not like any other weight loss plan. I think the spirit of its founder may be the reason I was attracted to it also. No self-serving agenda. Just common sense and care for the common good.
Thank God.
Kat :wink:
"Never give up, for that is just the place and time that the tide will turn." -Harriet Beecher Stowe

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Post by clarebear » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:24 am

Kookie! Experiment worked really well on Saturday so that's good! Sunday I snacked a little but no bingeing! I had more chocolate than I had planned to have put it wasn't a massive bar in one sitting :D

Hope it went well for you :D
Finally found a lifestyle change, not a diet!
Starting weight 167 lbs
Goal is to lose 20lbs in time for my wedding!

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:57 am

Hey Clarebear! I'm so so pleased it worked well for you! Yay :lol:

It worked well for me too even though I went back for more sweets on both Saturday night and last night after plating up. And I had a snack (a LARGE brownie) mid morning on Saturday and a snack yesterday afternoon too. Part of the process is, I'm sure, realising that it's okay and that I won't be punished for being 'imperfect'. And suffering the consequences of feeling like crap from overeating is probably all feeding into a future in which I no longer do this to myself.

So, overall, I'm not as depressed today as I was last Monday but still feeling porky and less well than usual as I did have a lot of sugar. I really do feel fat and keen to lose weight but am able to resist all the thoughts telling me to cut carbs/relinquish S days etc. And I know I'll feel better tomorrow.

So I'm not quite a :D but also not a :( ....more like a :roll:

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Post by clarebear » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:02 am

well that's an improvement from last weeks Monday feeling!
Although it went well, I do still feel I bit bleugh this morning but like you not as bad as last week, we will get there! :wink:
Finally found a lifestyle change, not a diet!
Starting weight 167 lbs
Goal is to lose 20lbs in time for my wedding!

Kookie
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:51 pm

Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:11 am

Day 28 (yesterday): SUCCESS
B: natural yogurt, muesli, 1 banana
L: 3 pieces bread, asparagus dip, salad, dressing
S: sheperd's pie with roasted vegetables and pine nuts
In between: 4 milky teas, 1 milky coffee


I'm glad it's Tuesday. As usual, I feel better on Tuesdays. My meals yesterday - particularly supper - was a little too large and I felt stuffed afterwards. Something to watch because it really doesn't feel good to be beyond full.

I've been thinking about my S days and I love the plan that me and Clarebear have but I want to take it a step further and say that I can have 2 normal-sized treats, one with lunch and one with supper. Or I can have the treat in between meals (but then forfeit it at the meal). I think this feels better. And I'll plan what treats I have. This will be my stop-gap plan until I feel safe enough that I won't stuff my face and feel like crap! This is my guideline for S days, it's not a 'rule'. At the moment, I am eating emotionally on S days and engaging in that deprivation mentality that I have to eat as much junk as I can until the iron curtain comes crashing down on Monday. And eating MORE junk detracts from the enjoyment of the deliciousness of the special treats.

Other than that, I'm still very happy with how things are going. I definitely think I've gained weight but that's okay.

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Post by clarebear » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:32 pm

This sounds like a good plan to me!
And good idea not calling it a rule, goodbye diet head :-D

:)
Finally found a lifestyle change, not a diet!
Starting weight 167 lbs
Goal is to lose 20lbs in time for my wedding!

Kookie
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:51 pm

Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:11 pm

Thanks so much Clarebear. That really means a lot to have your support and validation. ðŸ˜

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:55 pm

Good for you Kookie! You've got N days down and now you can keep tweaking with S days till you that feels right to you too.
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:46 pm

Thanks Linda! Amazing how vulnerable I feel deciding to introduce structure to my S days, keep feeling someone is going to scold me!!

Are you back from your trip? :)

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:02 am

Hi Kookie

Nah lots of people do mods and try to make S days more manageable. I pretty much take them as they come and reserve the right to change my game plan for S days as I go.

Yes I'm back! Very short trip because DH had to get back to work on Monday. Looks like we're going to Miami in a couple weeks though.

Linda :)
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:18 am

Day 29 (yesterday): SUCCESS
B/ kefir (home-made), oats, berries, seeds
L/ pomegranate, butternut, chickpeas, seeds salad
S/ salmon, roast potatoes, courgette and spinach, celery, bean dip
In between/ 1 large milky coffee, 4 milky teas

Nothing untoward yesterday except felt quite 'munchy' in the afternoon. I think I was anxious about a social thing happening tonight - nothing to be anxious about but that doesn't stop me!

Almost a full NoS month down! My whole life to go... :wink:

Tessytwinkle
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Post by Tessytwinkle » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:34 pm

Hi Kookie

You eat yummy food, very like what I eat :) I love butternut squash and chick peas mmmmm. Nearly a month gone and you are clearly doing brilliantly, well done. I think structuring your S days a bit if you feel you need to is ok. The proof will be if you feel steadier and enjoy your weekends more, I can see why you would want to and I certainly have been thinking about having a little structure myself because it feels like I am back in the old me every weekend and I do not like that feeling. So thoughtful treats but not an all out free-for-all is what i am now aiming for, good luck with your plans
Tessy

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:23 pm

Hi Kookie! Wow, almost a month down. That is cool.
I have been feeling munchie, too..... and I am sure it is anxiety. But munching never helps me feel less anxious for long....so let's hold out!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:07 am

Day 30 (yesterday): SUCCESS
B/ kefir, oats, seeds, berries, banana all mixed together
L/ chicken wrap with salad
S/ chicken pesto, brown rice, greens, lots of butter (YUM)
In between: lots of milky tea and a milky coffee, 1 glass red wine

Thanks automated! Annoyingly I'm not getting notifications so I've logged on today and see that a lot of people's check-ins (including mine) have been added to but I haven't received an alert. Irritating. So thanks automated! It would've helped to know that we were resisting munching together! But we made it anyway :lol:

I'm in a massive quandary...yesterday, I went to a doctor to get some results of extensive tests I've had because of lots of bowel trouble my whole life and endometriosis and fatigue and blah blah blah. Finally found a doctor who I think can help me. Anyway, the results indicate quite a lot of dysfunction in my gut - parasites, yeast, low digestive enzymes amongst other things - and very very low adrenal function (adrenal exhaustion). He knows about my eating disorder history but nevertheless has prescribed all sorts of supplements AND told me to try to cut out sugar, dairy, gluten and a lot of other things according to a candida/yeast diet. He said I only have to do it for 2 months while I'm taking the supplements. I told him that when I was in those very strict 12-step programmes, I cut all of that stuff out to no avail. He thinks that it'll be different this time because of the supplements as well as cutting those things out.

I don't know whether to listen to him and implement those dietary changes. If there's one thing I've learnt it's that I have to prioritise my eating disorder recovery. Argh! No sugar?! No dairy!!?? No gluten! And lots of other stuff too. I've done this sort of thing so many times both in the name of health and vanity that I don't know if I can do it again. It's depressing!

Anyway, I'm not going to rush into anything. Just need to absorb the information about the state of my health and about his suggestions and see where I come to.

jw
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Post by jw » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:55 am

What a dilemma! I am curious about what the supplements are that your doc is recommending. Celiac disease runs in my family and I thought I was having reactions to wheat some years ago. I haven't had any bad reactions in reintroducing bread, though -- and my recent colonoscopy had normal results, just like you.

Medicine has been so busy experimenting with semi-toxic remedies, it just hasn't learned much about nutrition, IMO. It might be worth working with a doc who is skilled in that area -- even if it meant limiting some foods for a bit. And I notice your menu yesterday would have passed the no-dairy, no-gluten, no sugar test!

I know you'll make the right decision, Kookie -- and No S will accommodate whatever you decide to do.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by clarebear » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:50 pm

this is a dilemma Kookie :(
There's pros and cons to both, like you though I couldn't bear to restrict things again :(
Finally found a lifestyle change, not a diet!
Starting weight 167 lbs
Goal is to lose 20lbs in time for my wedding!

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:11 pm

Sounds really frustrating especially when you're finally getting to a good place with food. I agree that needs to be your priority right now. If it's not urgent & dire, I would probably try to wait. Maybe in several months when you are more completely at peace with your food issues & your habits are fully set. Maybe then you can reconsider it?

In the meantime, I would research alternative solutions and get a 2nd opinion if possible. Is this doctor an md btw? The bottom line is though if you don't think you will be able to stick to it, is it going to be worth it to even start? Will it cause too much anxiety, and bad feelings if you are "failing" yet another diet?

On the other hand, if you can separate it from weight loss diets in the past & just see it as a big science experience, maybe it can work for you. Either way, I'm glad you're not going to rush into any decisions. You're doing so well mentally & emotionally and I hate to see you get derailed at this points.

Hugs & good luck.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:50 pm

You guys are so awesome. I can't tell you how much it means to me to have your support and acknowledgement and good advice.

jw - he's prescribed a bunch of supplements: pomegranate plus, pimpinella plus, wild endive plus, pancreatin and mycopryl 680...all stuff to get rid of yeast and parasites and the pancreatin is for digestive enzymes. He is a really experienced functional medicine trained MD. But I don't like his clinic, he charges more than any other consultant in London (I used to be a medical PA). He himself is quite a nice man though and takes a very holistic approach. Used to be an endocrinologist mainstream but has gone awol into functional medicine. As you say, whatever I decide feels right, NoS will accommodate it....it's weird isn't it that we both tolerate wheat/gluten now. I was strictly gluten free for ages and am very reluctant to give it up!! I didn't feel any better off of it. ARgh.

clarebear - thanks lovely! Yes, it's so hard to restrict again - even thinking about it makes me want to cry. I feel quite threatened at the moment, very tearful and grumpy. I'm so pleased that I am old enough and wise enough to know that there is no rush and I'm not going to restrict anything if it leads to feelings of deprivation.

linda - thanks for talking this through...I really like your suggestion of waiting a few months to get really embedded in my new habits...there is no rush and I have lived with these gastro problems and adrenal fatigue for YEARS, probably my whole life, so I think it makes sense. Not sure if I can separate it from diets of old. But I'm going to take some time this weekend to really talk it through with my therapist and also with my Mum who is really clued up on these things as well (and clued up on me;-)).

In the mean time, I'm going to shrug off this dark cloud and get happy again. I don't have to do anything that doesn't feel right to me! Yay!

I'm so grateful for NoS and for this forum. I feel so lucky! How did I live before??! :wink:

:D

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Post by Kookie » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:29 pm

Day 31 (yesterday): SUCCESS! October was a totally successful month, woo hoo!

B/ Kefir, oats, berries, banana, linseeds, chia seeds
L/ rice noodes, mushrooms, salad, dressing, 1 apple
S/ risotto with broccoli and butter and salad
In between: lots of milky tea and coffee

Had a very tearful and upset night thinking about this stupid doctor's advice. I sent him an email today with all of my concerns and frustrations (including the fact that he kept getting calls in our consultations). But in any case, I've decided to postpone any dietary changes until mid-January. I've lived with these problems for so long, a few more months is not going to kill me - relapsing with my eating disorder on the other hand just might!

I'm so glad I decided not to do it for a few months. Phew!

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:10 pm

Yay for a green October! Im glad you came to a decision and I think it's a very smart one. You can revisit this later but in the meantime just concentrate on your amazing new habits.

Linda :)
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:03 pm

Thanks Linda!!! I think it's a smart decision too and you guys really helped me with it. Thank God! I've got enough on my plate (so to speak!!) without making any more changes!!

:P

clarebear
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Post by clarebear » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:49 pm

Glad you have come to a decision and you feel good about it :D
Finally found a lifestyle change, not a diet!
Starting weight 167 lbs
Goal is to lose 20lbs in time for my wedding!

jw
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Location: PA

Post by jw » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:13 pm

Yay you! if you don't feel good about the experiment aspect of it, then you shouldn't do it -- and doesn't he have a receptionist? the busiest, most expensive practice in London can surely afford someone to screen calls.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:19 am

Thanks jw and clarebear.

I've had an awful weekend. I overate on Saturday night BIG TIME and then on Sunday I binged...TWICE. Last night I ate a whole pint of cookie dough ice-cream and a massive bag of kettle chips. And that was ontop of a lot of food during the day.

I think the prospect of having to make dietary changes is really getting to me. Even though I decided to wait until January before I implemented the changes, I keep thinking I should start making incremental changes now and then became obsessed with what I should start cutting down on etc etc.

Argh!

Now I'm just plain confused.

But I'm still sticking with NoS through all of this so that's something at least. But bingeing never feels good. :cry:

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:48 pm

Okay, I've got an idea.....I could implement all of the changes this doctor wants me to make on N days and keep my S days as they are?

That would mean no dairy, no gluten, no sugar and following the yeast diet on N days. I think that feels okay.

The reason I am thinking this is because I have just had a reply from the doctor to my distressed email on Friday. He said that the supplements would still be effective without drastic dietary changes and that the most important one is gluten.

That got me to thinking that I don't have to stick to the diet he proposed in a strict way so a good compromise could be to do it on N days and let go a little on S days..

jw
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Post by jw » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:02 pm

If you are suffering from bad symptoms, it's worth a try, Kookie -- I think the no sugar, no gluten, no dairy 5 days a week sounds doable on No S, especially since you seem to feel comfortable with that idea. What you are proposing sounds like a kind of rotation diet for food intolerances (if you don't ingest the suspect food more than every four days, it won't affect you, or something like that!) So a little splurge on the weekend with normal food would be allowed.

Check with your doc on the days off aspect of it, though -- anti-yeast syndrome diets tend to be quite strict, on the theory that the sugar/gluten feeds the yeast. And what's the point of restricting like that on N days if taking two days off a week will undo all the good you've done?

No S is about building solid habits. The diet your doc is recommending is about eliminating certain foods that are leading to unwanted symptoms. I think they are compatible, in the same way that No S is compatible with veganism or paleo, but the restrictions complicate matters and it sounds like the combination is triggering for you. It's a hard decision -- take it slowly and get as much information as you can before January. We'll back you here, whatever you decide!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:09 pm

I speculate that the no-dairy part of the diet is the least important for controlling Candida, assuming it's whole-fat dairy. And regarding celiacs, once the gut is healed (and yours didn't show current damage), dairy can usually be introduced.

Oh, BTW, along with what jw said, I was pondering that NoS helps the gut heal because it gives it only 3 meals a day (thus 4+ hours between potential onslaughts of irritiating foods to the gut lining). Pretty cool, actually.

And yes, we're here to support whatever you decide.
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8/13-26.3
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5/15-26.2
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3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
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Post by Kookie » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:01 pm

Thanks for your input jw....I didn't know about the rotation diet, thanks for the info. I think the only thing that I would really miss on N days if I do decide to implement these changes is milky drinks! I love milk in my tea and coffee and find it so comforting. I have emailed the doc in reply to his email asking about eliminating the culprits Monday - Friday but allowing them on weekends. We shall see what he says although I'm sure he'll be in agreement. I've told him the full story (years of struggle and how amazing NoS is and how I'd want to stick with it in terms of retaining 'S' days).

Automated - that's interesting that you think the no dairy is the least important....according to the doc's protocol, dairy is a big offender but he is also tackling yeast and parasites, not just candida so maybe that's why. I have read that raw milk is excellent for the health and even for people who are lactose intolerant. Not sure how that works but I have found a supplier and am trying to stick exclusively to raw milk. Seems like that might have to go though if I'm going to follow the doc's advice. You're right though, I'm sure having a nice long gap between eating is hugely beneficial.

As ever, I am so grateful for all of your support. My Mum told me that when I was a baby for the first 2 years of life I had to be starved a couple of times in order for the doctors to do investigations into my bowel problems (they started early!). She reckons that is why I am so traumatised whenever I am faced with the prospect of deprivation.

Anyway, all is well fundamentally and I must remember that as I can get a bit lost in the despair which is not necessary.. :P

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Post by jw » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:53 pm

Here's a link to one description of the rotation I mentioned: http://www.glutenfreegigi.com/rotation- ... olerances/

I think one reason No S is great for food sensitivities is because most of my sugar/gluten (baked goods, crackers, snacks), and even dairy intake (ice cream!) is limited to weekends -- a built in rotation that you don't really even have to track.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by Kookie » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:25 am

Day 35 (yesterday): SUCCESS
B/ 2 boiled eggs and homous
L/ brown rice, cashews, avocado, spring greens, olive oil, 1 apple
S/ roasted butternut squash, broad beans in oil, salad with dressing
In between: 4 milky teas, 1 milky decaff coffee

Thanks jw - very interesting indeed....

I feel much more settled today - cheerful, even. I've thought it through and even if it is all a big crock of sh1t, I do know that I have had serious problems with dairy, gluten and sugar so it is no bad thing to limit these items to S days for me. At least for now. I don't feel deprived (yet) and if I do I will address it then. Right now, I feel excited again. I've been listening to all of Reinhard's podcasts in order and am loving them. I'm becoming more of an Urban Ranger and found the podcast on Shovelglove quite interesting too. Am increasingly drawn to yoga rather than my usual aggressive workouts.

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Post by clarebear » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:32 am

good stuff Kookie, I am pleased you are feeling better! I felt horrible yesterday but today is a better day for me too, reading your post saying you are excited again has made me feel better even more. Love the effect this forum has!

I've been reading some info on binge eating this morning, just because I am intrigued and I know that when I do binge it's not normal. It is very common for people like us to suffer with bingeing after an eating disorder so that made me feel a little better. I just want to enjoy the things I like without having to go overboard. It will all come in time :D

I am glad you are making headway with your food sensitivities plan too :)
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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:59 pm

Ok I'm glad you're feeling better! I wrote a long reply yesterday but decided it was too opinionated and harsh sounding so deleted it. Just wanting you to consider all possibilities but I know you're being very thoughtful about it anyway.


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Post by jw » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:05 pm

Cheerful and excited are good, Kookie! glad to see you so upbeat!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by Kookie » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:05 pm

Linda - I can't imagine you ever sounding harsh! But if you felt it was right to take it down then I respect that!! Yes, I am being very thoughtful and need to just take it gently and watch myself. No doubt I'll bore you all ad infinitum along the way ;-)

jw - yeah! It's amazing how having clear boundaries and a clear plan can lift my spirits. Finding clarity with these stupid dietary suggestions means I am no longer subject to them. I was SO anxious and triggered by them and now I realise that the MAIN thing was milky drinks. I'm still having them, just trying to be conscious of the amount. I've cut down by one mug of tea and so far not feeling any difference. If anything, I enjoy my tea more if it's not 'unlimited'. I am a bit nervous about gluten though as although I only have a wrap or something once a week, I loved having them. Hmmm, to be continued..thanks for so much support, it really is so much appreciated.

Clarebear! Ooh what did your reading say? I'm eternally fascinated by all things food/eating disorder related because I am determined to get totally free. Good to remember that it's 'normal' to have binges as part of eating disorder recovery so thanks for sharing that! It's definitely been a gradual journey out of that hell hole! Have a lovely evening and enjoy your 'tea'. :P :lol:

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:43 pm

I was being harsh with the doctors recommendations not you!:) Being married to a doctor gives me a certain perspective right or wrong. But I know you have to figure out whats right for you so decided to keep my opinions to myself (well kind of).


Linda :)
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Post by clarebear » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:55 am

it was basically that people who have suffered with an eating disorder where food is restricted this can lead to bingeing during/after recovery.

We WILL be free, it won't be long :D
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Post by Kookie » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:50 pm

Day 36 (yesterday): SUCCESS
Breakfast/ 2 eggs, lots of homous
Lunch/ rice, almonds, avocado, greens, sesame seed oil, apple
Supper/ chicken thighs, roast butternut, green salad
In between: milky coffee, 2x milky teas

I'm slowly reducing my milky drinks and increasing my green teas. Finding it okay...

Linda - Ah, married to a doctor! I am also no stranger to the medical profession. I worked as a Medical PA and Practice Manager for some of the top consultants in London for 14 years so I also have a certain perspective. This doc I went to is not a quack although he is practicing functional medicine having left endocrinology. Nevertheless, I do really appreciate your concern but don't worry, I'm pretty savvy! And I want to feel well! I have suffered for so many years. So I really want to trust him and see where it takes me...

Clarebear - we WILL be free! We are getting free as we speak :lol:

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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:04 pm

Oh I'm glad Kookie. Doctors can be clueless about dieting/disordered eating issues and just didn't want to see you losing ground on all your great progress!

You're clearly being really thoughtful & careful about your decisions though so I know you will come to a good solution.

Keep up the good work!!

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:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by Kookie » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:30 pm

Day 37 (yesterday): SUCCESS
B/ kefir, oats, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, linseeds
L/ chicken thighs, lentils, wilted spinach in butter
S/ brown rice, green beans, spring greens, broad beans, oil
In between: milky coffee, 2 milky teas

I'm feeling SO angry at the moment. :? Work is really annoying me, I do an excellent job and keep getting loaded up with more and more and it's significantly beyond my pay grade. Last year I was promised a pay rise and job title change and they didn't give it to me. Yet they still want me to do more more more. A woman cannot live on praise alone!! :wink:

I guess resentful is a better word. And hard done by. Not very attractive feelings but that's where I'm at! With NoS, I can't eat to numb them and have to feel them and find a way through.

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Post by Kookie » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:08 pm

Today is the first day I've 'virtual plated'. I forgot to take my apple with me when I went to a lunch place. So I had it when I got back to my desk. That was okay. Tonight I am out for drinks (am going to adhere to Reinhard's glass ceiling) and so I will probably eat a very late supper. So there was tomato juice in the kitchen which I decided to drink on the 'just in case I get hungry' basis. Stupid thing is that I feel hungry now on account of the tomatoe juice - I wasn't hungry before I drank it! Doh! It's not a big deal, just wanted to note on here that I'm a bit nervous because I have colleagues who will try very hard to get me to stay later than I will want to and then supper will be VERY late. As it is, if I go for 2 drinks after work I will only eat at 9:30pm!! YIkes!! Unless I can persuade my colleagues to go for a meal somewhere. Such teensy embarrassing high class problems but they cause stress in my world!

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Post by clarebear » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:58 pm

Sorry your job is stressing you out kookie. I hear about so many people like you who are expected to do more and not get paid for it, what would they do if you didn't do it! But then of course that would be seen as being awkward. It's so unfair :(

Also dont worry about tonight, you'll be fine. Enjoy yourself and remember hunger isn't an emergency, if you get something to eat with friends I suppose that would be better then you eat sooner but if not at least you have something to distract you from your hunger until you do eat
Let us know how it goes
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Post by lpearlmom » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:07 am

I hope it went well tonight Kookie! Sounds like a tricky situation. Also sorry Bout the work thing that stinks. :/

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Post by Kookie » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:41 am

Day 38 (yesterday): SUCCESS
B/ 2 boiled eggs, loads of homous (really good combo!)
L/ brown rice, chicken, avo, salad, oil, lemon juice
S/ black bean spagetthi, broccoli and pesto sauce
In between: 1 milky coffee, 2 milky teas and 2 gin and slimline tonic

Yay! I made it! I left the pub at 9pm and got home at about 9:40pm and ate my supper at 10pm! BUT....it was fine! I was absolutely fine. It was hard to leave because I was met with a lot of resistance but it was a good time to leave. I had one drink, then a fizzy water (which everyone thought was another gin and tonic) and then my second gin and tonic. The only thing is I smoked 3 cigarettes. But I'm not going to worry about that just now and I've been listening to Reinhard's podcast called 'Extreme Moderation' and I'm pretty sure he said that he has moderate tobacco!! Probably just wishful hearing!

Clarebear, you are such a honey - thanks for reminding me that hunger is not an emergency. I need to always remind myself of that and also the other one I love is 'If hunger is not the problem then eating is not the solution.

LInda - thanks so much! It was tricky but the clarity of my boundaries worked like magic. Honestly, I feel so lucky to have found NoS and to have found you guys.

:lol:

Also, I decided a few days ago that this evening I am taking an S event because an old family friend who is a very renowed artist over here is doing a thing in a theatre and it's a sit-down 3 course meal and although I probably will want to save my dessert for something that I choose over the weekend, I am giving myself full permission to enjoy the evening and to eat whatever I fancy at the meal. My 2 drink glass ceiling will still be in place though as I think it's a good rule every day! Reinhard uses it every day I think so I will too... :lol:

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Post by automatedeating » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:45 am

Hi Kookie! Lots of thoughtful stuff going on in your head these days. Sounds a lot like what's in my head too! I am definitely dealing with more emotional stuff since I don't snack anymore. I get sick to my stomach almost every day...... much of my stress is the interpersonal challenges of my job combined with too much work to do!

I try to stick to 2 glasses of wine when I drink. I don't ever go out (how boring, I know) and it's easy to just ..... pour a little more and not think about how much I've had. i finally had to measure out ounces in my favorite wine glass to keep myself to 10 oz. (technically 2 drinks). I drew a line on the glass with a sharpie!!!

And yes, Reinhard uses the glass ceiling..... but it's the habit he fails the most at!! :)

Oh, and BTW, that was so smart of you to order a fizzy water. i've been in more than my fair share of situations where others want me to drink more than I know I can handle, and I think your strategy was brilliant!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
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Post by jw » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:09 pm

Kookie, that's what real moderation is -- knowing when the right thing to do is to celebrate with others! Hope your theater do with your old friend is great -- it's certainly S-worthy!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by Kookie » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:00 am

Thanks jw and automated...last night I had the most delicious meal so I'm very glad I took an s event..the food was stunning, especially the dessert. I failed at my glass ceiling though by quite a long way but I'm still just experimenting with the other everyday systems at the moment and NoS is my priority. Good to know it's the one Reinhard fails at most, ha!. But even so, with adrenal exhaustion I don't think drinking shots of tequila is very wise :wink:

Tired this morning and just wanted to connect on here to commit to having a lovely day but no bingeing. I'm meeting a friend at 12noon for brunch and definitely don't need anything before then except a milky tea which I'm having now. I'll probably have a piece of fruit this afternoon as I don't like having too early of a supper on weekends as that leaves too much time for sweets and snacks afterwards. I'll make something delicious for myself for supper followed by a treat/dessert if I fancy it in front of TV.

Here's to enjoying and savouring my food on an S day and not eating crap just because I can!!!

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Post by automatedeating » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:35 pm

Amen, sister!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by Kookie » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:45 pm

It was a better weekend than last weekend and consequently not feeling as low as usual. But my stomach is not happy at all - probably all the bread I ate. I think I need to have a mod of no gluten at least while sorting out my tummy troubles. Luckily there are plenty of restaurants these days which do gluten-free pizza! Had one on Friday last week and they're not too bad at all.

So....(turn away if you find this triggering)...I am working towards N days which look like this:
No gluten (no exemption for S days)
No sugar
No caffeine
No dairy
No yeasty things as per my food sheet from the doctor
1 portion beans/pulses
1 portion grain
Max. 2 fruit servings a day

God, this looks an awful lot like a diet. Need to remember what I CAN have (plenty of nuts and seeds and avocado and protein..) and also remember that it is a SHORT TERM thing.

S days are still causing me trouble and so I have decided that I need more structure on S days for now. So S days will look like this:
3 Normal meals (of whatever I want and no need to comply with that awful list above apart from gluten)
Milky, caffeinated drinks if I want them
1 generous treat per day (either in the afternoon or evenings).
No snacks

That just about covers it!

Also, I'm thinking of getting a sledgehammer and starting shovelglove and giving up my gym membership!! (although not 100% sure because I've read that saunas and yoga are good for adrenal fatigue).

Also, been listening to Reinhard speak about 'personal punchcards'. Man, he is a total genius! If he had just come up with the NoS plan I would be forever in his debt but all of his systems are so amazingly clear and useful and doable. I'm also thinking of getting a Dictaphone to do 'audiodidact'. His ideas are so totally right up my street. I'm so excited about my life right now and all the things I can achieve with his organisational tips!!

:lol:

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Post by clarebear » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:56 pm

glad you're feeling positive Kookie
The S day plan is a good one. That's what I did Saturday. you then know you've got a lovely pudding to look forward to and will hopefully stop us eating other things :)
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Post by Kookie » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:25 pm

Day 42 (yesterday): SUCCESS
B/ 2 eggs, homous, roasted courgette and broccoli
L/ chicken thighs, butternut squash, stir-fried kale, toasted pine nuts
S/ lentils, spinach, halloumi cheese, butter
In between/ milky decaf coffee, 2 milky teas

Thanks Clarebear! Yeah, that is the S day mod which Reinhard recommends. He says his favourite mod is 1 'S' per 's' day (small 's' to denote weekends) and no rules on 'S' days (big 'S' to denote holidays). That's what I'm going to do.

Feel good today but had a very dodgy tummy yesterday and still today too which is a bummer. Nothing awful, just crampy and bloated. I think it was the bread on Sunday night.

Anyone of you out there do shovelglove?

8)

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:15 pm

Glad to see things are going well for you Kookie! I hope this experiment goes well & that you feel better soon.

I was thinking of trying shove glove as I'm committed to adding 14 mins of exercise to my S days. I'm pretty sure DH has a sledge hammer somewhere. Today I did ballet exercise while watching tv. I do best with something I can do at home so let me know if you start shoveglove. Curious how you like it!

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CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by Kookie » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:33 am

Day 43 (yesterday): SUCCESS
B/ 2 eggs, roast butternut squash
L/ chicken, pine nuts, salad, olive oil, lemon juice, 1 apple
S/ black bean spaghetti with pine nuts and coconut oil, spinach cooked in butter

Thanks Linda! Tummy feeling much better today :D Great that you are going to committ to 14 mins of exercise a day. I saw the physio this morning who is also a pilates teacher so I think I might make my 14 mins a mix of pilates and shovelglove. Not sure. Still finding it hard to let go of the gym.

Have any of your tried his punchcard system? I really want to get started but was just wondering if he'd updated it/tweaked it since his last podcast about it..

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Post by clarebear » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:42 am

ooh I'm thinking of trying pilates too, think it would do me good
glad your tummy is feeling better :D
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Post by Kookie » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:58 pm

Day 44 (yesterday): SUCCESS
B/ 2 eggs, homous
L/ halloumi, sunflower seeds, salad, olive oil
S/ 2 apples and 100g biltong
In between: milky decaf coffee, green tea, 2 milky teas, 3 gin 'n slimline tonic

Today is the first day I almost forgot to check in! It's been a weird day... Very wired and full of naughty beans at work and very bored too -weird combo!

But I'm amazed at how easy it's becoming to eat this NoS way.. I have to admit that I'm not enjoying my meals as much lately and want to turn this around because it's dangerous for me to sacrifice too much pleasure in the name of health...smacks of the old diet head.

But all in all, very pleased. Still haven't weighed but think I may have lost half a pound - hardly anything but noticeable to my critical eyes :shock:

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Post by automatedeating » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:07 am

I'm thinking about pilates or yoga or something like that too. I know it's a far cry from shovelglove, but my joints seem to be crying out for some stretching! :)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by Kookie » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:56 am

Hi everyone! Just listened to Reinhard's most recent (but hopefully not final!) podcast about the 'what the hell' effect and negative qualification. He suggests only checking-in with a negative qualification which should help with the 'what the hell' effect (listen to the podcast for a full explanation!!).

He also said that he thinks green and yellow day qualifications (unless yellow days are causing trouble) can actually be counter-productive because they can be 'expensive' in terms of effort and can also detract/distract from the qualifications for red days. If you only write negative qualifications, it is much easier to see the pitfalls and figure out good solutions. Makes sense to me and coincides with me finding it a bit uncomfortable and inconvenient checking in every day now that I feel the habit is well-established.

So, I think I'm going to start only checking in if:
1. I have had a 'fail' and need to do a negative qualification
2. I want to share a struggle even if it's not a 'fail'
3. I want to share something amazing that is working for me
4. I am introducing a new habit in my life

I love being in close touch with all of you lovely people on the forum and getting all your awesome feedback/encouragement/suggestions but I know you're not going anywhere if I stop posting every single day!

And I'll still be around too - I'm not going anywhere either! Finally found something that really really works for me :lol:

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Post by lpearlmom » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:19 am

Ok Kookie, not needing to check in everyday is probably a good sign that your nos habit is becoming deeply imbedded.

I think I'm still too afraid to stray far from the path I'm on since it's been working so well for me. At some point I'll need to relax a bit though!

Have a great weekend!

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:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by jw » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:45 pm

Go, Kookie! Just a few weeks ago when I talked about this, you found it really scary, and now you're there! Good for you!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by Kookie » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:55 am

Thanks jw, you're right. But it stuck in my mind and I knew that it would change - just didn't realise how soon!! And Linda, no point changing it if it's working for you! It was so fun checking in daily but it started to feel burdensome and that's the only reason I changed. Still going to come on here often especially to share after weekends because they were causing me grief....BUT this weekend was amazing! I had one treat per S day! A miracle. Apart from my treats which I had in the afternoon on both days (at the cinema on SAturday and on the sofa at home on Sunday) I ate my usual 3 meals without any other snacking apart from the treats. I had seconds last night but not much. Boy what a difference! I think listening to all of Reinhard's podcasts really helped. I didn't feel in any way deprived and definitely enjoyed my snacks more knowing that they were not infinite! And to not feel like death warmed up today is a vast improvement!!

Reinhard's 'low smoking system' however isn't going to work for me though unfortunately! Damn! Cigarettes make me feel like crap and I can't stop thinking about them if I know I'm allowed them on S days (only 3 per S day was the plan). Oh well, they're so bad for health that I guess it's no bad thing to aim for complete abstinence in this regard at least!

In other news (!) I have suspended my gym membership and am going to be trying shovelglove for the month of December. Excited!

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Post by clarebear » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:10 pm

Brilliant Kookie!
So pleased for you :D
Finally found a lifestyle change, not a diet!
Starting weight 167 lbs
Goal is to lose 20lbs in time for my wedding!

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Post by Kookie » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:56 am

Just coming on here this morning to give an update...

On Friday night, I had a bit of a grey area situation. Am prepared to call it a fail although it's not officially a fail but it will be if it happens again..basically, I was out on Friday night and stuck to the plan (although had one drink over my glass ceiling) and when I got home, I had a horrible time because my poor old cat had vomited and pooed EVERYWHERE. It was very distressing. So I had to spend an hour cleaning up and trying to comfort him.

I kept getting compulsive urges to eat while I was cleaning up (no doubt triggered by a desire for a different reality than the one I was faced with) and eventually when it was all over and done, I succumbed and had a couple of delicious big wraps which I heated up and melted massive pats of butter in. They were really delicious but would've been more delicious if I wasn't eating them with a sense of it not being quite right because I knew I was really following the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law in that it was officially Saturday (1am) but not really totally in keeping with the plan as I see it. So in future, Saturday starts when I wake up after my Friday night sleep.

Saturday and Sunday were quite emotional days for me and on both days I ate a big bag of wine gums (225g!) and a small little fudge bar. So, my treats were: 2x225g of wine gums and 2x fudge. It was too much but not a train smash. I'm amazed at how much better my S days are in general. When I reflect on it, there were only a few really bad weekends. What is being revealed now is that I don't really know what to do with my time if I'm not bingeing and obsessing about diet and food. I was a bit depressed about it this weekend and felt quite lonely and sad. Time to get a bit more involved in life, I think! And get some hobbies which I enjoy as much as eating and watching TV! That's a tall order!

But overall, it's all good. I'm still a bit tearful this morning and slightly tempted to go down the grain-free route because my tummy is unhappy and I'm feeling fat. Have had a very paleo breakfast (black tea with coconut oil in it - yeah, I know, weird but actually delicious - and 2 boiled eggs) and will have chicken, homous and a massive salad with olive oil for lunch but will actually probably have rice or sweet potatoe or pasta for dinner. The great thing about NoS is that I can do a very low carb day but still feel 'safe' within the plan because it's not a rule, it's just a choice (usually a bad choice) for that day.

:)

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Post by jw » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:55 am

"What is being revealed now is that I don't really know what to do with my time if I'm not bingeing and obsessing about diet and food."

This is when the simplicity of No-S is revealed as well -- so many intricate counting diets keep you so busy/obsessive, there's no time for anything else! I think this is the moment when people turn it into a diet and make rules and rituals for themselves -- or, like you, have the insight to start developing new interests and reawakening old ones!

Always love to read your posts, Kookie!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by clarebear » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:58 pm

I agree with JW, and I too have had this issue Kookie, I'm sorry you're feeling teary :(
Like you say, you just need to keep yourself busy so you're making it less likely that your thoughts will get taken up by food

Keep plugging away :)
Finally found a lifestyle change, not a diet!
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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:48 pm

Kookie somehow I missed this post. So sorry you hit a rough patch. I've come home to something like that after my dog got into the butter! Why do these things always happen late at night?

1am is definitely legal even if it's not ideal. In the beginning when I'd be feeling desperate for my S days, I'd tell myself I could get up at 12:01 and snack if I wanted. Of course I was always too tired to bother but helped to know I could! It sounds like your S days are much better overall so I doubt this will be coming up as an issue much anyway so don't sweat it too much.

I know what you mean about feeling a little empty now that our favorite hobby has been removed. I spent so much time planning & scheming how I was going to lose weight and then the best part was always imagining how my life would be magically transformed once I reached my dream weight. My planning & scheming eventually turned into unhealthy obsession that I came to loathe but still it's hard not to notice the empty space that it once took up.

I think when I was feeling weary recently this is kind of what I was feeling but unable to put into words. Nos is wonderfully sane, consistent and healthy but it doesn't take a whole lot of time or energy. There's also no big promise of a magical life in the end.

In fact, it reveals real life and true feelings. This can be difficult but don't feel like you have to tackle all this at once. Just being aware of the fact that you'd like to find other interest right now can be enough. Feeling like you have to do do something about all these feelings at once can be too overwhelming. For now it's ok to do something simple with your time. Reading a book or watching movies is fine. Baby steps and when you're ready and maybe gotten a few more months of nos under your belt, you can try taking up something some more serious pursuits and facing your deeper issues.

At least that's my advice, someone else might believe in facing things head on and all at once but I think it's important to give yourself permission to take things slowly.

Sorry for going on so long as usual but hope you're feeling better!

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by Kookie » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:39 pm

Okay, it's my first RED day :evil: :evil:

It's okay, it's a learning experience...I made a silly decision today to try and only have a 'bulletproof coffee' for breakfast (coffee blended with butter and coconut oil). It's a total gimmick which my Mum is doing (she doesn't have eating issues). It's 100% diet head under the guise of optimum health and it backfired. Not too badly, I only had an apple and a few tablespoons of almond nut butter 'extra' at around 3pm but as we all know, even 'healthy' snacks are not okay for me because they sustain the constant thought of eating between meals rather than the peace of clear boundaries.

So, this is the lesson: do NOT try to skip meals (maybe a bulletproof coffee would be okay on a weekend when I wake up late and have lunch in an hour or something) and do not try to be too restrictive within meals. I have started subtly cutting carbs and it doesn't work for me! I have felt more like bingeing in the last week than I have since starting NoS. Being tired doesn't help but that alone does not make me feel bingey. I must watch this orthorexia (=an unhealthy obsession with healthy eating).

As Reinhard says, I am coming on here to do this 'negative qualification' as a way of marking it and moving on, hopefully a little wiser (how many times do I have to learn the same lessons over and over and over again??? many MANY times it seems!).

Also, I had started slipping into smoking and gave up AGAIN (again) properly (again) last night and I know that withdrawals from nicotine can feel like a sort of emptiness and hunger.

All in all, I'm amazed I didn't' eat more this afternoon. I'm still feeling bingey though so must have a delicious and large supper and start eating proper, substantial, non-diet meals tomorrow.

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:21 pm

Kookie good to "see" you here. Sorry about the red day but great you're handling it with your usual insightfulness.

Like you said it's really not about the extra calories so much ( in this case rather small) but about the necessity for firm boundaries. Some people can handle snacking and seconds but for others it just leads to all kinds of problems.

Anyway sounds like you pinpointed the problem. Just as important as not snacking between meals is to eat well at each meal. No skipping, no attempt at shortcuts.

Looking forward to hearing about shoveglove at some point.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by eschano » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:25 am

I agree with Linda and want to add: good on you for stopping the smoking!
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

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Post by jw » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:13 pm

Kookie, glad you came back when things got chance-y -- restricting just doesn't work for you, it sounds like. And great work on cutting out the smoking -- I finally did it, too, after smoking for 25 years and it was the hardest habit to break. Make sure you're getting what you need at every meal and be kind to yourself!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by Kookie » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:14 pm

Linda - thanks so much for the support. Yeah, I can't cheat myself anymore it seems!!

Eschano - thanks for the encouragement!! Day 3 off the smokes but my food has been dicey..

JW - thanks as always for your great feedback and well done to you too for cutting out the cigs after 25 years!

So today I woke up feeling terrible...I've had a headache for two days solid and this morning I had the headache again PlUS nausea. I called in sick. But I felt anxious all day because work is so busy and there are some real snakes in the company. It's a real mess - someone got fired who I really like and it was totally unfair. But fighting other peoples battles makes my food go crazy, so today I didn't feel like eating until about 11:30am when I had 2 boiled eggs and some milky tea. Then at around 3pm I had more tea and an apple. Then something inside me went 'to heck with it' and I ate 3 HUGE bowls of muesli. Felt full and crap afterwards and still do.

By my reckoning I've had about 2,500 calories. And for sitting on the sofa all day.

Another lesson learnt: try to stick to NoS even when I'm sick because the minute I think I've eaten too light I get opportunistic and think of weight loss. I could've easily had a proper lunch instead of the apple and then wouldn't have needed to compulsively eat the muesli.

That and I needed to reframe the situation at work and wind my neck in!! I wasn't the one who was mistreated so I don't need to hate all those involved on her behalf. Certainly not when it affects my health/food.

Ok, am marking it and moving on. Won't need anything else to eat today/tonight.

I guess I've had a rocky time lately with the food. First a fail on Tuesday and another one today (although today is an 's' for sick day but in my heart I know it's a fail). Still it's all good learning and I feel more committed than ever.

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Post by automatedeating » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:20 am

Hi Kookie,
Good job for trying to "reframe" the tough work situation. True story: when I was in college, I got fired from a job because I confronted the boss for mistreating other employees. I look back on it and have to laugh..... I so love to defend the defenseless. Anyway, we all have to learn to fight our own battles. That takes enough energy! Now I pick my battles very carefully.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
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Post by Kookie » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:49 pm

Hi all!

Firstly, thanks for all your amazing wisdom! automated, you're so right - I've got enough on my hands fighting my own battles!

Just a quick check-in to say everything is awesome and I'm going really well BUT I must just bust myself on getting a little obsessive with this bulletproof exec shit. I'm not putting it into practice but listening to all of his podcasts. I think it's okay but I just have to watch for deprivation/diet head mentality. I have reduced grain in my diet to an extent since I saw that function MD who diagnosed adrenal fatigue and yeast/parasites and I think I may have lost a tiny bit of weight.

Still haven't weighed myself though but it's not much it any but I definitely haven't gained and my weekend S days are so sensible now!! Didn't really need any mods although I think they did temper my attitude towards treats.

Anyway I'm checking in (in a rush) because I'm taking an 'S' day tonight and one on Friday night (work xmas party tonight and book club on Friday night). BUT they're my only NWS days until xmas day. I'm only taking xmas day as a NWS day as I'm having a quiet xmas with my Mum so I think it's okay to just roll with two NWS days in one month.

Just wanted to put my plan out there for some reason - to feel safe I guess!

Thanks for all being there and sorry this is so uneloquent.


:lol:

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Post by Imogen Morley » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:56 pm

Just popping in to say hello and good luck! I've read ALL the posts in your thread this afternoon, as almost everything you write is true for me, too - "sister from another mister". I also get weird reactions when I eat sugary stuff on empty stomach! I've been struggling with binge eating since I was 13, and in spite of my 4th anniversary of NoS fast approaching, I still tend to have excessive (or downright binge-ish) S-days. But my NoS record has been known to be flaky, so perhaps I didn't give myself enough time to nail down moderate habits in the past. I'm going to follow your thread with great interest, please keep us posted!

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Post by lpearlmom » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:07 am

Great to "hear" from you Kookie & so glad you're doing well. Good for you for taking S events as needed instead of putting yourself in impossible situations.

As far as the magic bullet stuff, I know it's hard not to get sucked in but it's most likely just another fad. Remember if there ever really is a " magic bullet" discovered it would spread like wildfire and we'd all be thin within a couple months. Anyway just try to keep things into perspective.


Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by lpearlmom » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:48 am

Just checking on you Kookie. Hope all is well!

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by clarebear » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:53 pm

Hello Kookie!
Happy new year and I hope you're well :)
Finally found a lifestyle change, not a diet!
Starting weight 167 lbs
Goal is to lose 20lbs in time for my wedding!

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:50 pm

Thanks Linda and Clarebear!! I've literally just logged on here for the first time since 11th December!!! Shocking how much time has gone by since my last post. And before I even got to my own page, I checked out yours! Will be posting there too once I've checked in ;-) Very glad you're both still here though!

So.....I guess a lot feels like it's happened but also nothing has happened. I had a really good time over xmas with my Mum but was really very 'good' in the sense that I didn't over-indulge that much. I definitely enjoyed my food and ate everything I wanted to but it was all very moderate...

That was BEFORE xmas. As soon as it was all over and I was back at home again, I started having mini binges - and some not so mini binges - a lot. That period between xmas and new year's eve was tricky for me. But since then it's been fine, back to vanilla no-s with a lot of sugar free chewing gum and milky drinks in between.

I've had a traumatic time because my beloved siamese cat died on Saturday and was very sick for the past month or so. I wasn't sure he'd make it to xmas actually. Then I went off the pill and onto these progesterone losenges which just made my bowel pain so bad that I've gone back on them but my skin is a MESS - red, raw, flakey, itchey and awful. So I'm grieving my cat and look like shit but my food is okay.

It feels good to check in.

More anon.

:)

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Post by automatedeating » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:53 pm

Hi Kookie!
Sorry to hear about the loss of your pet. That is so hard.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
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3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
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Post by lpearlmom » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:26 am

So glad to hear from you, but really sorry about your cat. So heartbreaking. :cry:

It seems like a lot of us had a little rough patch over the holidays, but glad you're back on track along as well.

Hope your skin clears up--ugh!

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by jw » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:51 am

Kookie, so nice to see you back! Sorry the hear about the health problems -- and the loss of your kitty is very sad :( . This has been a trying time for you. Hope No S and your friends here can help!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by Kookie » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:16 pm

Thanks so much everyone. I am sad this afternoon, having a little cry at my desk. He really was the best cat in the world. He was more like a dog actually. He loved being brushed, would greet me at the dog, would come when I called him, was VERY dependent and demanding....I really miss him so much. He saw me through the worst years of my eating disorder and I know that his departure signals my recovery as well.

Having said that, yesterday was a RED day! I decided to go out with some friends for dinner and couldn't resist when everyone tucked into dessert. So annoying but just need to mark it and move on. Today I have been feeling cravings for chocolate and almost gave in, largely because I had a lunch which I did not enjoy.

I've decided to start making a note of all the things I learn about myself where food is concerned. For instance, today my lesson is (although I've learnt these lessons a zillion times before):

* SASHIMI: I do not like sashimi...if I eat Japanese food, I need to eat sushi as I like sushi
*CARBS: I need carbs at every meal together with protein and fat otherwise I do not feel satisfied (even if I'm full - I can be full without being satisfied). And by carbs I include fruit, potatoes, root vegetables, rice, beans, lentils...sometimes nuts can be a carb substitute). The point is, protein and green veg alone will never work for me - it never has and never will and sets me up to fail later on in the day.
* GUM: I cannot handle chewing gum...I literally cannot be moderate about it. I chew it until it's all gone so if I buy 3 packets, I will eat 3 packets in one day. Best not to buy it in the first place.
* COFFEE: not sure that I even like it!!

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Post by Kookie » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:19 pm

Oh shoot. Another red day. Just had a chocolate binge. Yes, a whole box (minus a few which I generously gave away ;-))

Feel sick. Oh God.

I think I just need to acknowledge that I'm having a tough time with grief over my cat and my skin is really bothering me. It's not an excuse, just an explanation. Finding it hard to process all of my feelings, I think.

I threw away my scales a few months ago and now think I need to buy some more...

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Post by lpearlmom » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:37 pm

Don't panic Kookie. When my dog died I could barely get off the couch for two weeks. It's tough so cut yourself some slack.

Take a few S days because NoS is suppose to be about realistic expectations. It's not going to be throw your weight off that much so don't rush out and buy new scales just yet. Once you get back in the groove your weight will stabilize.

Hang in there, big hugs and remember the pain won't last forever.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by eschano » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:51 pm

I'm totally with Linda on that one. At the moment what you need most is kindness with yourself. You'll get on the wagon again shortly.

I'm very sorry to hear about your cat!
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

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Post by jw » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:43 pm

Kookie, listen to your friends, don't feel you have to tough it out -- you've lost a dear companion and it's right to say good-bye. This is not the time to be hard on yourself or thinking about self-discipline. There's lots of time for that later.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Intelligent Dietary Defaults

Post by Kookie » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:41 am

I'm so touched by your kindness. Okay, I will cut myself some slack.

I think it would be helpful to think about intelligent dietary defaults which incorporate everything I know works for me. For instance:

Breakfast default:
Apple slices with almond butter (2oz)
Quinoa porridge with nuts & seeds
2 eggs with homous

Lunch default:
Portion of biltong, piece of fruit and some soup
Homemade coconut flour bun and some soup

Supper:
Baked potatoe with cheese and veg/salad

I think I will try to give up milk next week (or maybe that is too hard on myself? But I just feel so sluggish and terrible and my skin is awful).

It feels like I want to forfeit my S days this weekend in view of my two red days yesterday and on WEdnesday but I know that's not kind so I won't do that.

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Re: Intelligent Dietary Defaults

Post by eschano » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:46 am

Kookie wrote:It feels like I want to forfeit my S days this weekend in view of my two red days yesterday and on WEdnesday but I know that's not kind so I won't do that.
Yeah, definitely don't do that! Enjoy the Ss and maybe review Reinhard's podcast on strictness. If you start skipping S days soon you'll haggle every day: "If I have Ss today I can skip one S day on the weekend..."

As for the milk: how about limiting it instead of giving it up?

I think you're doing so well everything considered! Be proud of yourself!
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again January 2021

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Post by Kookie » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:01 pm

This week (N days) I am going to try to:
* limit milky drinks to 3 per day
* no chewing gum (very bad for my tummy)

I'm feeling okay today. The weekend was sad but okay. I didn't go totally overboard with food but did eat about 200g chocolate over the course of the weekend and a big blob of fudge and some gummy sweeties. Not a train smash.

I've just inadvertantly been reading my old posts from November and it's sort of consolidating an idea that I'm forming to hand in my notice and go travelling for a few months (or years!?!). I just need to break free. LIfe here seems to have lost all meaning since my cat died and I can see now that he was giving my life meaning - nothing else really is.

I'm signed up for a course from October until March next year so I had thought I'd stay in my current (boring) job until after the course - it's an online course so I can do it from anywhere. But now I'm not so sure.

It's probably not wise to make big decisions right now but that's where my imagination is taking me.

HOpe everyone is well.

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Post by jw » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:47 pm

Oh Kookie, they say not to make life-changing decisions when you are mourning a new loss -- but I so understand your wish to just get away! Do you have an idea of where you would want to go? Could you do some long weekends? March is not far away at all, and maybe your completed course will open some doors for you.

Whatever you decide, my best wishes go with you!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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