Kookie's Daily Check in

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

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Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:52 am

Oh ironchef, your post did make me laugh at the end! I will have to save that recipe for a toblerone cocktail for one of my S day treats!

Thanks for the vote of confidence and reassurance too. And I agree with you and Oolala that a happy life is primary. I want a body and mind that can support all that I want to do with my life, not as a perfectionist end in itself. It's such a relief to let go of that crazy, culture-born notion that thin is the be all and end all of life.

On the issue of one plateful, I am trying to do things a bit differently this time round as well, in keeping with a more relaxed attitude. I am tending to have either some fruit (1 piece or the equivalent) or a small portion of homemade fruit jelly (=fruit juice, gelatin, honey...so healthy, have been reading about the wonders of gelatin and therefore trying to fit it in) with every meal. I like the fruit or jelly after a meal to mark its conclusion!

But I am not obsessing about putting the fruit or jelly literally on my plate before I start eating. I have it in front of me beside the plate but not on it. This okay for me and feels a bit more normal and less perfectionistic! Otherwise I can get all obsessed about putting it all on a plate. The fruit can always fit on the plate in theory but I don't feel I have to put it on to prove it. Fruit was always an issue when I did NoS before and I would obsess about it! Now I just know that with each of my 3 meals, I can have a fruit or jelly for dessert. Even if I go out for lunch, I can eat my piece of fruit a bit later. It's a virtual plating thing, I guess.

Maybe this is a slippery slope but it is only the fruit or jelly which is not on the plate before I begin. And on N days, it is the only sweet thing I have so I like the simplicity of having it with every meal.

Why do I sound like I'm justifying myself?!

Anyway, happy to be here and happy to be giving myself permission to actual eat! Properly! Solid meals suit me. And I've read enough about metabolism to know that depriving myself of calories causes me to gain weight. It's stressful being underfed and it's common knowledge now that stress leads to raised insulin and cortisol which leads to impaired digestion and assimilation of nutrients and slower metabolism. Which is probably why I often lose weight when I'm on holiday despite eating more and exercising less - stress is such a key factor in this whole discussion.

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:39 pm

Wb Kookie!

I don't have a lot of advice as I'm struggling with different things in my life as well but do think letting go of the goal of weight loss is essential to healing & getting to a good place.

I think it's good to focus on health but not as a disguise for weight loss. Focusing on health is about adding gentle exercise and making sure you have a variety of food available that is both enjoyable and beneficial to your health. There should still be room on that plate for things are not necessarily packed with nutrients but that you enjoy. Health shouldn't feel punishing.

I agree about the drinks. Recently I've been trying to cut out my mochas and I think it lead to a bit of backlash. I'm allowing them again if I really want them.

Anyway it's good to see you back, your presence is definitely missed when you're not around.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:56 pm

Ah thanks so much Linda. I have missed you too! Big time. Thanks for sharing your experience and wisdom. Yes, there has to be room for food which is not 'nutrient dense'. I think that anything we eat which nourishes us because we relish it and love it and it feeds our souls (even if it's so called 'junk' food) its GOOD!

I so identify with the backlash from trying to wrench away milky drinks!!! That stuff goes deep!! It feels, for me anyway, so so punishing and the stress of not having them is much much worse for me than allowing myself to have them. And what is so wrong with milk anyway? I have been told at various points in my life that dairy is bad bad bad, that I am intolerant. It's total crap, I think. I never feel better when I am off dairy. In fact I feel worse because life - and certainly going out for coffee - is much less fun.

Sending love to you!

My Mum is coming round for supper tonight. I have got to the point where I am ready to own up to the fact that I feel stressed in her company and have to work very hard not to feel upset around her. I'm not sure I feel strong enough to do all the mental gymnastics necessary to make it a successful evening but I'm going to try to at least stay conscious of the fact that she is only human and of the fact that I am now an adult and don't need her to meet my unmet childhood needs. I can do that for myself now! If anything, I want to subvert (is that a word?) the energy and try and give her the mothering and unconditional love which I am so desperate for from her. Give to her what I want to receive. Maybe that's going a bit far but that's what I'm thinking at the moment.

Food today:

B: 2 boiled eggs, baked potatoe, portion of grapes
L: Chicken thigh, cottage cheese, quinoa, asparagus, 1 apple
S: will be...lamb mince, mashed potatoe, cooked spinach, jelly
Drinks: 2 milky coffees and 2 milky teas so far

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:12 pm

It makes me sad when I hear you talk about your mom. I just want to give you a big hug and hope you know how much you deserve the love you crave & missed out on.

I hope tonight goes okay. I think I've mentioned how I feel a lot of stress before I see or even talk to my sister. I've decided to stick to texting and sending cards on holidays for now.

Keeping your expectations realistic seems like a good idea.

*hugs* linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

clarinetgal
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Post by clarinetgal » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:46 am

Welcome back! :D it sounds like you are definitely in a good place with your eating plan. I understand about backlash, from depriving yourself of certain foods. I hope your dinner with your mother went okay.

Heather

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Post by Kookie » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:51 am

Thanks so much Heather and Linda.

Supper with my Mum went well. She loved it. I do love mince - it's really just a vehicle for lots of yummy spices and garlic and onion for me. She did comment that we ate a LOT of food and was very full afterwards even though she had about half what I had. I guess I am really eating well this time round and intend to continue!! I already feel like my body is starting to relax as it is being fed well and it feels like my weight will naturally go back to normal (I have gained about 7lbs over the summer through trying to eat less but ending up bingeing as a result).

I didn't have room for my fruit. I'd love to know how other people handle fruit, it's always a bit of a thing for me - to fruit or not to fruit after a meal, that is the question. Guess it doesn't matter if it fits on a plate. I've been having it on the side of my plate and then it feels optional whether I eat it or not, even though I usually do. Maybe I do need to put it on my plate. But even if I put it on my plate before I begin, I'll always move it off as I don't like salty, saucy fruit!!

Anyway....I need to relax as I can feel myself getting tense about this issue and perfectionism always leads to self-abuse!

It's good to be back. I feel safe and positive even though it is a bit of a dark period overall (moving home, still grieving the loss of my cat, operation next Wednesday which will be painful, morton's neuroma in my foot and on and on..)

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Post by osoniye » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:47 pm

Hi Kookie,
Thank you for your thoughtful and honest posts.
Regarding the fruit issue, I really enjoy having fruit on or next to my salads. Sometimes I make a fruit salad and have that as a part of the meal. What I like best is to have fruit as a large part of my breakfast. I've kind of gotten away from that, but I enjoy a couple of pieces of fruit with cottage cheese, cheddar cheese, sliced cold beef or fried tofu as my breakfast. Or sometimes mixed in with yogurt. Seems it can occupy a larger place at breakfast than other meals, and I don't enjoy a piece of fruit as much after lunch or dinner.
-Sonya
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".

clarinetgal
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Post by clarinetgal » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:30 pm

I'm glad the supper with your mom went well. I wouldn't worry too much about fruit. I'm glad you're trying to stay positive, in spite of some challenging circumstances.

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:49 pm

I'm so glad things went well with your mum!

As far as the fruit, I'd do whatever makes you feel less anxious. A couple pieces of fruit a day won't effect your overall success with NoS so either way, on the plate or off, is fine.

I often like to have a piece of fruit at the end of my lunch but don't usually put it on the plate. When I start eating I usually just do a quick visual check on my plate to make sure there'd be room for fruit. Sometimes I want it sometimes I don't but I like to have the option.

So maybe try to do whats most comfortable & sustainable.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:04 pm

I used to be a lot stricter when I was learning the ropes, but now I often have fruit off my plate if it makes sense that way, for example last night I had a bowl of barley soup, a slice of buttered toast and some watermelon slices. Of course, these were not all in the soup bowl! What I try to follow is Reinhard's idea of preventing "sneaky excess" by making sure I can see all of my meal at once, before I start.

One of the long term successful posters (I think wosnes?) didn't realise there was a one plate rule when she started. For a long time, she just went with "one serve" of each thing at meal times. By the time she realised, she decided not to bother, since the meal-based eating with "one serve" was working anyway.

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Post by eschano » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:31 am

Yes, I don't take the one plate rule too seriously either. It's one meal. Then, seconds has never been my problem - I'm full quite quickly. My bigger offenders were sweets and snacks and usually it was sweet snacks. So depending of what you biggest offender is, therein lies your solution. I have fruit off the plate nearly every meal. After all, who likes an apple lying in a curry?
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

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Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:45 pm

Soniya - great to hear from you and thanks for sharing your fruity tendencies ;-) I've enjoyed reading your page about all your adventures.

Clarinetgal - thanks and you're right, worrying about fruit is so small-fry..especially in the face of other more challenging issues. Perfectionism is a hard habit to break.

Linda - always lovely to hear from you...I like the visual check idea to see if the fruit would fit.

ironchef - what a great tip...a bit like Linda's of making sure that I can see all of my meal at once before I start. That's the key, I think (apart from chilling out!).

Eschano - thanks, good to know that I'm not the only one abides by the spirit not the letter of the law on the one plate rule. Fresh apple with curry sauce is not my favourite dish ;-)

I had a good weekend in terms of food. Some thoughts and reflections:

1. I don't think it's going to work for me starting my weekend on Friday nights....it just doesn't feel clear for various reasons. Besides, I can still have a delicious meal at a restaurant on Friday nights with some alcohol if I want so it's not as though my weekend can't start on Friday night anyway.

Question about restaurants: do people tend to just order a main course on N days if they eat out in order to follow NoS and abide by the one plate (or at least the visual cue of all of your food in front of you before eating) rule? I think the reason I wanted to make my weekend start on Friday night was that I often go out for dinner with a friend on a Friday evening and sometimes if my friend is having a starter, I also tend to want one. My usual N day meals are about the same size as a starter and a main in most restaurants so I think that would be okay in terms of quantity but is it a bit risky and/or stretching NoS too far to have a starter and a main course? Just wondering how others handle this?! It could be another fruit issue scenario in that I am being too literal. I'd rather be able to have starter and main (although usually I just have a main course but it's nice to have the option if it is socially more acceptable to have a starter plus main) and still call it an N day meal but am prepared to do what it takes this time to make NoS work by getting clear about certain issues which have been fuzzy for me.

2. I noticed on Saturday when I woke up (after eating a lot of pizza and drinking wine on Friday night) that I was very thirsty and not in the mood for eating anything. And, as I am trying to use my S days as opportunities to listen more to my body and let that be my guide, I only had a nice big creamy coffee (with sugar) when I woke up. Then at 11am I thought I'd better eat something as I wanted to go to the gym. I think there is a fear of leaving the house and getting hungry straight away. So what I really wanted to eat was some grapes which I had but instead I had toast with cheese. This was too filling and too much for my body especially after gorging on pizza the night before. It made my workout at the gym much harder as I was heavy and full. Okay, so I made a mistake but what I noticed was how angry (actually FURIOUS) I was with myself for this innocuous misjudgement. I'm not sure why I ate the cheese on toast - probably because I wanted to make the most of the S day as I don't often have this on N days - but that choice did not warrant the self-recrimination that followed.

I think it was just a reminder that I am a bit opportunistic and let the S day override my body's messages. Ideally, I would prioritise my body's needs over being allowed to eat whatever I want. BUT hey I'm not perfect and that was no excuse to beat myself up.

I think the lesson is that the tail can so easily end up wagging the dog for me if I'm not careful. So I need to be conscious of the fact that even on N days I can eat toast and cheese (for instance) because it is not intrinsically an S food. I need to broaden my food on N days lest I feel trapped. The more different my N days are from my S days, the less sustainable NoS is for me. NoS is not about 'dieting' (or eating only what I deem to be 'diet' food) in the week and bingeing on weekends. It is about helping me to be free to enjoy food and have a portable plan that enables me to partake of life in all its glory. For me, eating S foods (or those 'highly palatable' foods that are generally processed and/or contain a lot of sugar) is good for me because it demystifies them and proves that I can have them without a) getting fat or b) losing control and bingeing. Becuase for me, these highly palatable foods have never been my staple diet. They have been foods to fear and avoid...and then binge on. So making my N day meals less 'diety' is good and part of the process of normalising all foods (and therefore taking the power back) and it means that the S foods are less 'special'. If my N days are too reminscent of dieting then I start to strain towards my S days and it is hard for me to then prioritise my body over my feeling of deprivation.


3. I was in the grip of indecision last night as I was aware that the window was closing on the weekend and even though I'd had an ice-cream in the afternoon, I wanted another treat to eat after supper in front of the X Factor (!). I couldn't decide what treat to have though and there was a bit of a tug of war within. I ended up making my own treat at home (blended banana, double cream, coconut sugar, cashew nut butter and cacoa nibs) which was delicious and a good compromise for me. Again, a bit of an indication that NoS can feed into the 'last supper' mentality along the same lines as point no.2. Foods I need to start including in order to bring N and S days more into the middle: kettle crisps, toast, mayo, pasta, muesli, paninis, baguettes, sandwiches, chips....

But overall I was pleased that I didn't binge this weekend. I did listen to my body for the most part and I am proud of that!

This morning I had a very light breakfast (2 big milky coffees and a big bunch of grapes) and then an early lunch. I am just reminded that this doesn't really work for me if I can't snack in the afternoon (always find the afternoons very long and very hungry if I dont' have a 'proper' breakfast).

That's all for now!

Just to say, I have surgery on Wednesday. It's very minor although it does involve general anaesthetic. Although my BMI is within the normal range, and always has been, I have always snored so I am having radiofrequency ablation to my tongue base and soft palate (the cause of my snoring). It'll be sore but only for a few days. Eeek! But I think my health with improve as a result and I feel as calm as I can be!

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:58 am

Kookie wrote:Question about restaurants: do people tend to just order a main course on N days if they eat out in order to follow NoS and abide by the one plate (or at least the visual cue of all of your food in front of you before eating) rule?
Yes, I mainly try to just have a single plate, unless I am somewhere like a tapas restaurant.
My usual N day meals are about the same size as a starter and a main in most restaurants so I think that would be okay in terms of quantity but is it a bit risky and/or stretching NoS too far to have a starter and a main course? Just wondering how others handle this?!
If you want to have a normal sized meal, just served in 2 courses I don't think that's a drama. There are certainly thin cultures (traditional Italian springs to mind) who enjoy lunches or dinners in small courses. If it isn't every single week, I'd say don't worry too much about it. Just be honest with yourself - if you go to a restaurant that happens to have big portions, you know this is a larger than normal meal. If this turns into a weekly thing, and you want to revisit it after a few months of green N days, sure thing.
I'm not sure why I ate the cheese on toast - probably because I wanted to make the most of the S day as I don't often have this on N days
I eat cheese and salad sandwiches or cheese on toast on at least half my N days. Why not have them on N days if you enjoy them? Hell, eat them every day (you'll probably get sick of them after a while).
So making my N day meals less 'diety' is good
Absolutely! This is spot on.
Foods I need to start including in order to bring N and S days more into the middle: kettle crisps, toast, mayo, pasta, muesli, paninis, baguettes, sandwiches, chips....
None of those are sweets. All of those foods, with the exception of crisps (because I don't much like them) are just about daily inclusions in my N days. I would only avoid them on an N day if you personally don't find them tasty. We're following No S, not No Fun :)

Good luck for your surgery!

eschano
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Post by eschano » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:27 pm

I agree with ironchef completely.
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

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Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:53 pm

Haha ironchef, your post was so helpful/validating and also made me laugh! No S is certainly not no 'F'!! Bring on the FUN! I had bircher muesli with yogurt and fruit for breakky this morning which was absolutely delicious. I used to binge on muesli so it's great to incorporate it. I also remembered when reading your post that NoS is about having integrity when it comes to the 'grey areas' ie eating out.

I'm a bit distracted today as I've got a lot to do at work and I am anxious about the surgery tomorrow so I will sign off for now but I am really pleased to be on the boards. NoS doesn't cure me of my food issues but it definitely helps me to feel safer and freer than I feel without it.

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:55 am

Kookie, good luck tomorrow. I know it'll be fine but still nerve racking I know.

Thank you for stopping by your thread with your encouragement & good advice!

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

clarinetgal
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Post by clarinetgal » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:01 am

Good luck with your surgery!

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Post by Kookie » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:00 pm

Surgery was successful yesterday but it's been really, REALLY tough. Nausea and headaches from the general anaesthetic and it's been very hard to breathe. I have to consciously open my throat when I breathe in. Bit better today but I will say that this has been a crash course in staying calm. This evening I am not having to consciously as much so but when I sleep, it's for 5 minutes at a time because when I relax, the airway closes. Hopefully it'll be a bit better tonight...

I'm over the worst though - thank GOD!! I am so grateful.

Somehow have managed to stick to NoS. Even yesterday, I had 3 meals (such as they were) post surgery. I don't see the point in adding to my stress by feeling out of control with my food! It helps that my appetite has really gone away somewhat ;-)

I've ordered some delicious luxury ice-cream for my up coming S days - yay!

Thanks for all the support and good wishes. I was very scared and they really helped. I knew this surgery was going to be tough so at least I was forewarned.

:lol: :lol:

As soon as I heal, I'll be wanting to test drive my newfound ability to sleep quietly on unsuspecting souls

:oops:

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Post by aspencer27 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:33 pm

So glad to hear that the surgery went well, and the worst is over! Hope you get some sleep soon, and that you are feeling much better, too.

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:08 pm

Great news that surgery went well and hope the recovery improves tonight!

It's interesting isn't it, we're so conditioned to believe that reaching for food will help us feel better, when in fact No S can feel like an island of calm in the middle of a stressful time.

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:38 am

So happy the surgery went well and hope you're feeling much better soon!

DH snores really loudly and now I have trouble sleeping without the noise. 😀
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by Kookie » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:04 pm

Hello friends...

I just thought I'd check in before I turn in for the night to try to steady myself as I'm feeling a bit ungrounded.

I have a very big belly tonight. It's probably largely to do with the antibiotics and pain medication I am on but also I ate far too much ice-cream this afternoon. Then I wasn't hungry for dinner and figured it was okay to skip dinner on account of having eaten more than enough in terms of calories from the ice-cream but felt psychologically dissatisfied with no proper dinner so just now ate some proper food (rice, cheese, stir-fried veg). Now very very full and grumpy.

It happened yesterday as well. I've noticed that my S treats really throw off my meals. Friday didn't set me up great for the weekend either as I had a carrot between lunch and dinner. It's the principle isn't it?

Anyway, I then weighed myself on Saturday morning and I weigh more than I have ever weighed in my entire life. I am my heaviest EVER. Ever. It's very dispiriting although I know I need to focus on getting over my surgery as a priority and not worry about the weight.

Anyway, rightly or wrongly I think i am going to stay home another day tomorrow and not go into work. I don't know if this is because I feel fat and grumpy or because I genuinely need another day of rest. The consultant seemed to think I'd be fine by tomorrow to go back to work but he doesn't know the context of 'me', as it were. I have found this procedure quite traumatic and haven't really slept for the past few nights. On the other hand, I do get a bit cab feverish spending so much time alone at time.

I guess I'm just having a wobble and trying not to panic. I hate feeling so heavy and having none of my clothes fit and it does feel like it might be hormonal because I don't think I've been eating that much more than usual. I do believe I have a low thyroid (been reading about it) and have some tests in a couple of weeks to check it out. Until then I have to just stick it out and be patient.

Probably not making sense here because I am not fully going into the whys and wherefores of my health issues which are quite complicated but suffice to say that I seem to get easily thrown and start to question NoS when I'm feeling like this. I start to want a quick fix which of course I know is a fallacy.

I just need to keep things simple and remember that actually it's not about the food. I am recovering from a horrible procedure so I am bound to be feeling a bit out of sorts. And the weight is not in my control, I think hormones are playing a big part in it all. I don't want to get all food and body obsessed because who am i doing it for? I just want peace with my food and in my life and I know that for me, having clarity around my food really helps. The boundaries of NoS really suit me as long as I am not to rigid in terms of what I eat for my meals. I definitely do better on N days!!

As a result of the surgery, I have a lot of phlegm and am finding that milky drinks are not helping. It's tough because I do take enormous comfort from them. I think I'll see how I go tomorrow.

Really need to try and stop myself falling into a pit of self-pity as I have done so well these past few days staying positive post surgery.

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:31 pm

Sorry you're feeling so off balance. Remember that sick days are S days too! Focus on taking the best possible care of yourself while you recover from your surgery. Who cares if someone else thought you'd be up to working or not by which day?

One thing I find on S days is that I usually feel better if I have my sweets in the context of a meal (e.g. dessert after a nice dinner). Snacks has always been the thing that makes me feel odd. Just a thought.

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Post by lpearlmom » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:57 am

Kookie it's late so I can't give the nice long reply that I'd like but just want to give you *hugs* and tell you things will get better. Just a rough patch. I Had one myself this weekend & it's hard not to feel desperate for a drastic solution sometimes but I need to think sane & long-term so let's both give it a day or two and hopefully things won't seem so bad.

hang in there.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by clarinetgal » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:50 am

Sorry you're feeling off from your surgery. Tough as it is, try to focus on just getting better for now, and don't worry about your weight.
I definitely understand about needing the boundaries of No S! While I can't call myself a perfect No Ser, I always feel better when I follow the 3 meal structure.

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Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:20 pm

You guys are just the best...so kind, wise and supportive. Heather, I literally just posted on your wall - must've been at the same time you posted here.

So...the latest: after one of the most frightening weeks of my life I feel I have (tentatively) turned a corner today. I went for an emergency appointment with my consultant this morning who looked at my soft palate, tongue and throat and reassured me that apart from a small ulceration on my tongue, I am at least structurally fine. So, feeling like I can't breathe must be in part anxiety. His bedside manner is not the greatest but I did feel a bit reassured. And then this afternoon I managed to stay calm through the rising panic which I was having with every out breathe at rest. So I think I sort of reset myself. It's just that the sensations at the back of my throat are so different, my brain probably just had to catch up and trust that the in breathe would come. Because of the procedure and things feeling differently, and also a lot of phlegm, it felt like the in breathe needed conscious help. Frightening experience! Can admit it now that I feel so much calmer and more trusting that I am going to live to see another day! No more unnecessary procedures in future for me, please!!

Other things on my mind are: my living situation and plans for the future. I have chosen this awful time to have an involuntary life assessment. Not the best time but have been so dark and low that I guess it was inevitable. Have decided that I do in fact want this life of mine and need to start making it work for me...

But cryptic, more anon but just with my mother and we need to go. Regarding food, had a fail this afternoon in the form of a big bunch of grapes. Obviously it is probably an S for sick day but now musing on a fourth meal option as I do always end up finding the period between lunch and dinner very long.

More anon x

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:51 pm

Ps/ iron, you're right...it's the snacks that I find throw me off kilter more than anything...well, specifically snacks that are sweets and eaten alone. Much better to have my sweet treat after a meal. Good spot!

Linda...yes ok it's a deal. No drastic solutions! Xx

mitchelll
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Post by mitchelll » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:11 am

Glad you are feeling better. that span between lunch and dinner is definitely my danger time, too. From breakfast to lunch is never a problem. And I, luckily, never developed a late night snacking habit. However, come 4 pm, I often start craving a snack. before NoS, with a handful of nuts here, a cracker or two with cheese there, a bit of the supper I was cooking, etc., I regularly consumed the caloric equivalent of fourth meal between lunch and dinner. I do find a hot tea, or cafe au lait does make a major difference, but this is also definitely my danger time, and the source of most of my failed days.

good enough
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Post by good enough » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:12 pm

Hi Kookie, I just wanted to say thanks again for stopping by my check-in thread. It sounds like we have a lot in common in terms of previous relationships with food and perfectionist tendencies...

I hope you recover quickly and it's great to read you've turned a corner in how you feel.

Definitely for me feeling full/bloated and seeing a high number on the scale are both strong triggers for bingeing, so well done for staying strong! I think I will stay off the scale for a while as I'm scared to see a gain.

Anyway, keep up the great work!

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Post by clarinetgal » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:05 am

I'm glad you're starting to feel a little better! It might not hurt to experiment with a 4th meal, to see if it helps.

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:02 pm

Heather and Mitchelll, thanks for feedback on the fourth meal idea and Good enough, thanks for the vote of confidence!

I'm back at work today. Feeling a heck of a lot calmer and stronger. Sleeping much improved although still only sleeping in one hour increments and waking up with a start and the sensation of being unable to get enough air. My Mum - who stayed with me last night and the night before - said I am snoring VERY loudly. I guess it gets worse before it gets better. The consultant said it'll take 3 weeks before the tissue starts to shrink following the procedure. Maybe it's the snoring that's waking me up rather than, as I have been fearing, being unable to breathe. Not sure.

Just musing on my weight gain and I think a lot of it is stress-related. Which has actually resulted in my feeling a new ease and acceptance of the gain. I'm going to leave my body alone and take my eyes off the weight as I learn to relax and see that the body responds downstream from the soul. As such, I commit to not weighing myself until...let's see...Friday 5th December. I like weighing on a Friday after (hopefully) 5 N days. It's a long way off but I don't see the point in weighing myself when I know that my body is in flux and also when I know that no matter what the scale reads it won't change what I choose to eat! And when I know it will just depress the sh1t out of me. Okay, it's a deal.

Just to remind myself, my body is in flux for several reasons, all pretty major. For a start, I have just had a traumatic surgical procedure from which I will need at least a couple of months to recover. I need to work on normalising my breathing in the mean time because whether it's the result of the surgery or a result of my anxiety following the surgery or both, my breathing is chaotic. Anyone heard of Buteyko breathing? I'm looking into it and finding it fascinating. Also, I am off all medication having formerly been on the contraceptive pill to manage my endometriosis and an anti-depressant for my...being-ness! I am off both in order to see what my baseline is, both in terms of hormone levels and also just in terms of disposition. I want to see a clear picture before I treat what I suspect is a low thyroid. So my hormones are a bit out of whack which can also affect weight But I need to remember it's temporary (I hope!). Blood tests next week. I've had to wait to get the blood tests on account of a cortisone injection in my morton's neuroma on my foot which would've skewed the results. Also the general anaesthetic would've skewed the results. I really think all of my hormone, gut and other issues are thyroid related. Maybe wishful thinking!

So physically I have a lot going on but it's all good (ultimately). While I am waiting to sort out these issues, I need to be kind to my body BIG TIME. Which means not stressing about a few extra kilos.

On my mind foodwise: milky drinks (these are definitely mucous forming for me which, given my current breathing problems since surgery, is all the more noticeable) and a fourth meal. I think I rely on milky drinks a lot between meals so maybe with the addition of a fourth meal will help me to reduce/eliminate the milky drinks for now. I'm still reluctant to committ to the change even though I am doing myself no favours with milk. I do love cream in my coffee (hate black coffee). I don't mind black tea so maybe I should have cream in my coffee but no milk in my tea as a compromise...If I were to have a fourth meal, I would make it a fruit snack as fruit is often a bit of an issue at meal times (to have it or not to have it). If it were a separate snack, I wouldn't have to worry about the virtual plating issues that arise when I contemplate fruit with meals.

Sometimes I think I just like to pick apart - or focus on - my food and food plan to somehow make it more exciting instead of focusing on making my life more exciting!!

Forgive this stream of conscious drivel!


:shock:

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:20 pm

Ps/
Have decided to make some minor - but significant - changes:
1. Add an afternoon snack/4th meal of fruit (2 pieces if I want) and/or raw carrot (1 fruit, 1 carrot)...this solves my fruit issues as there is no debate about whether to have them with my meals (I wont) AND my between lunch and dinner anxiety/genuine hunger issues. Also, as I want to start dance classes one day soon after work and before dinner, this 4th meal will free me up to do that rather than rushing home to eat because I'm starving...
2. Daily morning coffee with cream and honey (LOVE this but usually deny myself it except on weekends for some reason). No milky drinks after this coffee in order to attempt to reduce my dairy intake and therefore mucous issues. This is the best of all worlds because I am actually letting myself have my favourite milky drink but reducing unnecessary milk in the form of milky teas which I usually drink throughout the day willy nilly. And I don't mind black tea so it's a worthy trade for creamy honey-fied coffee. The coffee is in addition to my 3 meals. Honey is ok on N days, right??

Yay! I will try this until 5th December which is also my next weigh day.

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Post by clarinetgal » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:51 am

I think your mods sound good. I also think having honey once a day in your coffee should be fine! That's great that you are trying to be kind to yourself.

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:22 am

Honey is totally ok. Also, coffee with sugar is totally Vanilla, so I don't see why coffee with honey would be any different.

Good luck working out your medication situation. My partner has a chronic illness managed with meds and working all this out with a doctor you can trust is invaluable in the long term. It won't necessarily all be fixed at once, but keep chipping away and you'll find the right mix.

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:04 pm

Thanks Heather and ironchef...This mod worked really well on Friday and so far it is going well today. Either way, I want to try and stick to this iteration of NoS until 5th December as I think part of my problem is being impulsive and changing the plan too often before I've had a chance to see if it works for me.

My weekend was pretty good. I took ironchef's suggestion of keeping snacks out of the picture as much as possible for no reason other than they mess up my meals (because I am not hungry enough) and in any case I much prefer having my sweet treat after dinner. It really helped. For instance yesterday afternoon I had some pineapple (as per my N day mod) instead of fudge and saved the fudge for after dinner. I know that had I eaten it in the afternoon, I would've wanted something else for a sweet anyway after dinner and it would've probably mucked up my dinner itself.

So the sweet treats I had this weekend were after dinner on both Saturday (1 pint of good quality toffee/caramel ice-cream..) and after dinner last night (150g chocolate fudge). I guess my sweet treats are pretty MASSIVE so I shouldn't really be surprised if I'm not losing weight ;-) What I realise is that the other 'S' s - snacks and seconds - are very easy for me to pass on. Sweets are really what I 'live for' on weekends. Having said that, I like the flexibility on weekends of, for instance, just having a coffee in the morning then meeting a friend for brunch at 12noon.

I've been researching a lot and am concerned that I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis. But rather than jumping on an autoimmune diet protocol (=no grains, no dairy, no nightshades, no corn, NO FUN) I am going to wait until after my blood test on Wednesday and then after my appointment with the consultant endocrinologist next Monday. I'm going to do things differently and refrain from self-diagnosis!! Especially self-diagnosis which results in dietary restrictions.

This morning I had my delicious coffee with cream, honey (and a tablespoon of collagen - so good for health) at 6:30am, then 2 boiled eggs when I got to work at 9am. I was STARVING by 12noon so I think I need more than 2 boiled eggs for breakfast even if I am having a deliciously calorific coffee. Tomorrow I am going to try this yummy raw banana bread with nut butter. That should do the trick (for body and soul!).

Last night was the first night since my horrible operation that I slept for longer than one hour at a time! Small mercies and all that. Very grateful. I slept for 2.5hours at one point. If I'd know that this procedure would be so frightening and cause this (albeit temporary) period of sleep apnoea I would never had gone ahead with it. The tissue must be shrinking at last because I have woken myself up unable to breathe far less these past two nights. What a traumatic experience. Horrible. I was definitely NOT warned about the after effects, unless my reaction to it was particularly anomalous. Having to stay on guard against relaxing/falling asleep because it meant a closed airway and therefore unable to breathe is not cool. Not at all.

Still, I'm alive to tell the tale. I did some EFT tapping last night which I think helped to reduce my pre-bedtime anxiety.

That's all for now! Very conscious that I am heavier than normal and I am keen to get back to exercising once I am fully recovered.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:13 pm

Sorry to hear about your frightening symptoms. Just reading about it gave me the chills - any problems with breathing cause panic attacks for me. Yuck!!! Also kudos to you for keeping your cool about possible health issues. As for the S-days... as someone who lives for sweet treats on weekends, I want to assure you that your portions don't seem massive to me at all - six pieces of cake in one sitting in addition to several candy bars/ice cream cones/entire sleeve of biscuits between meals, that's how we like it here... :oops:

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Post by ironchef » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:25 pm

So glad you are starting to improve after your op.

If I only ate 2 eggs for a meal I'd be eating the furniture. Your coffee mod was about being kind to yourself and enjoying a drink you like. Don't take away that kindness by "punishing" yourself for your coffee with a skimpy breakfast. That's diet head talking.

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Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:40 pm

Imogen Morley - haha,you made me laugh...that's how I like it too, I was actually boasting about how little I'd eaten rather than bemoaning how much I'd eaten! But when I tell 'normal' people, they marvel that I ate a WHOLE pint of ice-cream. That's usually just for starters!! But at the same time, I am not losing weight like I usually do or usually would (probably health issues) and wondering whether I was just lucky before when I would lose weight despite monstrous S days!!

Ironchef - how did you know I was punishing myself with the measly mean egg-only breakfast?! You are spot on. I didn't even realise it consciously!! I was definitely sneakily punishing myself by trying to compensate for my delicious morning coffee with a mean breakfast. I guess I haven't really let go of weight loss as a goal. Also, while we're on the subject, my stipulation that I wouldn't eat fruit now at my meals because I was having it as an afternoon snack is also a bit punishing. - I only mention it because I had grapes and yogurt for breakfast this morning (also not enough food) and remembered that I'd said no fruit at meals.

I'm struggling today a bit. I've got an incredibly sore throat and feel very achey and have a horrible feeling that my throat (or tongue? or soft palate? hard to tell) has become infected. I may need another course of antibiotics. So annoying.

I also want to drink a milky tea right now and might just have one - to heck with it! Why can't I stick to anything?!

So bored of myself now...

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:40 pm

Imogen Morley - haha,you made me laugh...that's how I like it too, I was actually boasting about how little I'd eaten rather than bemoaning how much I'd eaten! But when I tell 'normal' people, they marvel that I ate a WHOLE pint of ice-cream. That's usually just for starters!! But at the same time, I am not losing weight like I usually do or usually would (probably health issues) and wondering whether I was just lucky before when I would lose weight despite monstrous S days!!

Ironchef - how did you know I was punishing myself with the measly mean egg-only breakfast?! You are spot on. I didn't even realise it consciously!! I guess I haven't really let go of weight loss as a goal. Also, while we're on the subject, my stipulation that I wouldn't eat fruit now at my meals because I was having it as an afternoon snack is also a bit punishing. - I only mention it because I had grapes and yogurt for breakfast this morning (also not enough food) and remembered that I'd said no fruit at meals.

I'm struggling today a bit. I've got an incredibly sore throat and feel very achey and have a horrible feeling that my throat (or tongue? or soft palate? hard to tell) has become infected. I may need another course of antibiotics. So annoying.

I also want to drink a milky tea right now and might just have one - to heck with it! Why can't I stick to anything?! It may be that my breakfast wasn't big enough so I am craving the extra calories from milk. Maybe I can hang on for 30 minutes when I will have my fruit snack.

I think I need to define what is failure for me. If I have a milky drink, it seems a bit harsh to call it a fail day. But then it felt like I allowed myself the creamy honey-ified coffee and fruit snack in exchange for milky drinks. God, talk about complicating matters!!

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:49 pm

Is there any specific reason you're against milky beverages between meals? I thought Reinhard personally didn't have any issues with them *typing this while enjoying a cup of cafe au lait with some instant chai powder and brown sugar*

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:08 pm

Imogen - I think it's the phlegm issue (sorry if TMI!). Ater surgery when my breathing was very tricky, I noticed more than usual that milk caused phlegm and made matters a heck of a lot worse. Plus I guess I have a bit of paleo diethead bullsh1t going on about dairy too.... As a very small baby/kid, I did not do well on cow's milk and exclusively drank goat's milk. Urgh, not sure I like goat's milk though anymore...

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Post by Kookie » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:09 pm

ps/ YUM to your cafe au lait with chai and sugar!! :P

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Post by clarinetgal » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:57 am

I hope you don't have an infection. Yikes! As for your breakfasts, I agree with ironchef. Don't be mean to yourself. As for fruit, I actually like having fruit with breakfast. I find it gives me that much more energy. As for milky drinks, that's a tough one. When I have dairy, my throat gets very phlegmy, which is why I mostly avoid dairy -- but that's my choice. Have you found any non dairy milks you like? To be honest, I haven't really found one. The one I like the best is hemp milk.
Take care!

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Post by Kookie » Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:56 am

Thanks Heather.

Yesterday was a big fat FAIL. Last night after supper I thought to myself 'I must prepare a more delcious, substantial breakfast'. So I was preparing nut butter on special dense bread and then thought 'WTH' and ate it then and there along with some honey on top. And then, just to drive the fail home, I had a massive bowl of yogurt with muesli and honey.

I know that this mini binge (because for me, this is definitely mini compared to my binges of old) was the result of not acknowledging something to myself, of trying to run away from something I was feeling, namely my lack of attraction for an old friend. Said friend and I have known each other since we were 11 (boarding school) and we've been to dinner a couple of times. Nothing has ever happened but he has just invited me for dinner again - in Paris no less! Bit extravagant. And he's started making very lewd remarks. It took a mini binge for me to stop and acknowledge that it's bothering me.

So...if my binges (or even deviations from Nos) are to do with emotional isues then why bother having a food plan in the first place?? It's like putting on a life vest just in case I get thrown into icy water but the irony is that the life vest doesn't prevent or help with the icy water scenario. Okay, bad example but I'm just musing out loud.

My next bandwagon - on account of feeling very fat and also feeling unwell (back on antibiotics this morning so must've picked up an infection or virus since my operation) - is trying the ketogenic diet. Apparently it's a panacea for all ills ;-) I say that with my tongue in my cheek and very much aware that I am contradicting myself but I'm feeling a bit desperate. And I think it might help me to crank up my fat and protein intake and lower my carb intake to reset my body a bit. I feel very unwell!! It's been touted as curing cancer and all manner of health conditions so maybe it'll help my endometriosis, possible hashiimiotos', digestive issues and general low level chronic fatigue to say nothing of my eating disorder.

I know this probably reads like insanity but if I don't get it out there, it just festers and gets even more extreme inside my very busy brain!!

:roll:

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Post by ironchef » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:38 am

Kookie wrote:Yesterday was a big fat FAIL. Last night after supper I thought to myself 'I must prepare a more delcious, substantial breakfast'. So I was preparing nut butter on special dense bread and then thought 'WTH' and ate it then and there along with some honey on top. And then, just to drive the fail home, I had a massive bowl of yogurt with muesli and honey.
Actually, this sounds like a relatively contained fail. Only two items, only after dinner. As you say, this is actually a lot less than you would previously have had, so remember to pat yourself on the back for that.
So...if my binges (or even deviations from Nos) are to do with emotional isues then why bother having a food plan in the first place?? It's like putting on a life vest just in case I get thrown into icy water but the irony is that the life vest doesn't prevent or help with the icy water scenario. Okay, bad example but I'm just musing out loud.
Why not use the No S structure, and in parallel, work on feeling, being with and dealing with emotions that make you uncomfortable in ways that don't need food? Why does it have to be one or the other? To use a less dramatic analogy rather than "dying in icy water": If your roof was leaking, you'd put a bucket under the drip, right? You wouldn't say "I need to fix the roof, what's the point of this stupid bucket".

I have no idea what a ketogenic diet is (turns out this isn't one of the many I've tried pre-No S), so I don't have any advice on that one. Whatever you decide, be kind to yourself, you are still healing and you are changing meds, you've got a lot going on emotionally and physically right now.

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Post by Kookie » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:30 pm

Thanks so much Ironchef. Your feedback is totally spot on - thanks for reminding me to be positive and keep the big picture in mind because that fail was indeed a tiny blip compared to what I am capable of! So so true. Perfectionism and perspective/positivity are not compatible bedfellows. I really want to work on my thinking because it does stink sometimes and is so mean!

As for your analogy of the bucket and the roof - I think it is better than my icy water/life vest one BY FAR! I was in all-or-nothing thinking and actually the beauty of NoS is that it throws into relief those moments when I want to eat for non-hungry reasons. So, I will have a bucket and fix the roof!

Speaking of the bucket, I am going back to NoS vanilla. It just didn't actually feel right having the afternoon snack and far from helping me feel more secure, actually made me feel less. I am going to try to follow a very high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet on N days as an experiment but if I don't stick to it, it will not constitute a fail. It's a guideline rather than a rule.

These boards are a real touchstone and source of wisdom and sanity so massive thank you to everyone on here! 8)

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Post by MerryKat » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:48 am

Hi Kookie

(((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))

Sadly so many of us are experts at mean talking to ourselves. We say things to us we would never dream of saying to someone else. It is very hard to change but we need to learn to talk to ourselves as we talk to friends.

It sounds like you have come to a good plan - No S as your back bone with some additional guidelines (definitely not rules or punishable) to guide you meal times.

Enjoy returning to the freedom of Vanilla No S.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:23 pm

Thanks for your sweet message MerryKat! Yes, NoS Vanilla is the way to go for me....and important to remember the distinction between 'rules' and 'guidellines'.

I'm just checking in to share yesterday and the day before were GREEEN and I intend to make sure today is too. I need to just committ my dinner as it's a bit different, shall we say...

I will be having : roasted macadamia nuts and gouda cheese for dinner.

Bit strange but I will be eating on the hoof as I finish work at 6pm and I'm going to a cultural event (Caitlin Moran interviewing Lena Dunham! yay!) which starts at 7pm and it will take me about 45 mins to get there. I know I will be too hungry to wait to heat afterwards. But I am scared that I won't feel as though I've really eaten with this meal. However, calorie-wise (not that I want to be a calorie counter for life) it is more than I'd eat ordinarily. I just need to really savour it even if I am in transit and then know that I can have a lovely milky drink with double cream when I get home and go straight to bed. That'll be the key for me, not slumping in front of TV. I've started to notice that WHENEVER I watch The X Factor, I binge. So I am going to ban it except on Sunday mornings when I am much less likely to binge. We'll see how that goes this weekend. I am out on Saturday night for a curry.

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Post by ironchef » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Good work on the GREEN days :)

I hope your dinner works out ok. I also don't like "dinner of nibbles" situations.

Just on the "rules vs guidelines", I wanted to add that nothing should be "punishable" (neither rules nor guidelines). I highly recommend Reinhard's podcast #13 on Strictness, where he talks about how punishment (apart from being a negative in our lives) is actually a barrier to developing habit. Strict with yourself before a slip up, honest and compassionate after one, is actually the fastest way to move forward.

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Post by LoriLifts » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:48 pm

Just stopping by to say hi.

I recently wrote about how my thoughts run in a circle. I start with Vanilla S, then add a mod, then add a "new" food plan, then, eventually return to Vanilla S.

It took me 6 years to see the pattern! It seems like you do something similar. The good news is we don't give up!

You're doing great!
Habits are at first cobwebs, then cables.

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Post by Kookie » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:58 am

Ironchef - thanks so much for that reminder. It's so true, punishing myself paradoxically does not lead to change. I love that podcast and will revisit it. Also, suffice to say, the 'nibbley' supper did NOT work. How are you doing? I hope the sickness has passed or at least isn't so intense!

Walkerlori - thanks for the encouragement! I can't believe that you nailed my pattern in one. I'm definitely in the 'add a new food plan' phase although it is within the parameters of Vanilla NoS. I'm shooting for very low carb but very high fat. Just for a short while to reset my blood sugar...and hopefully lose weight too I can't deny it!

So, Friday was a FAIL. I had ordered some yummy low-ish carb coconut S day treats which arrived on Friday and which I devoured on Friday night after the show I went to. The justifying thought was 'well, I'm just going to make my S days run from Friday through to Sunday lunch time so this is okay'.

The weekend was okay though, I didn't' go too crazy and managed to stay quite low carb but I've been having a LOT of cream, butter, nuts, oil in everything...my digestion does love it and my tummy feels good but I know it's not sustainable so I need to just watch it as I don't want a rebound carb binge! But the food is delicious and I love fat. It's hard to see whether it's making me lose weight or not but I'm definitely in ketosis - a little bit obsessed with ketostix.

Sometimes I reflect on the fact that I am still pretty obsessed with food after all these years and it makes me sad even though I perpetuate the obsession with these crazy phases. But I do hope and believe this ketogenic phase is doing me some good and it is very sumptuous and delicious. I don't feel deprived but I also know in my heart that it is not true freedom. I guess I still haven't found what truly works for me - in food and in life. They often mirror each other.

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Post by MerryKat » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:45 am

WalkerLori & Kookie - I do exactly the same with No S with the same results everytime!! I am obviously a slow learner!!!!
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

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Post by ironchef » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:03 pm

Yum, your food sounds nice. No S is the first way of eating that let me rediscover butter, whole milk and a whole host of other yummy things. I've been eating my morning porridge recently with a dollop of sour cream - yum!

I sympathise, I never feel satisfied with a meal of "nibbles", even if objectively the total energy consumed is as much or more than a normal meal.

I'm ok, still sick and very tired, likely to remain that way for about 3 or 4 more weeks. I'll probably go back to updating my thread in a month or so.

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:28 am

Hi Kookie--

I relate to your obsession with food and your need to always make a new food plan. I've found journals from when I was about 10 years old that have my daily food intake written in them. I can also remember how soothing it was to curl up on the couch with the latest diet book and come up with a new plan. It was such a great distraction from the chaos & uncertainties of my life growing up.

At some point, I realized that there was no single food plan that was going to transform my life so I slowly let go of that dream (more or less). Now I still love thinking about food as a distraction but try to do it in healthier ways through menu planning for my family or a party or just learning about cooking or the cultural aspect of food is fun for me.

Not sure where I'm going with this but hope you can find some peace with food & your body which is ultimately what I'm searching for too.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

clarinetgal
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Post by clarinetgal » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:18 am

Hi! I hope you do find a way of eating that works for you.

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Post by Kookie » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:11 am

Last night, I had another binge making yesterday a FAIL. No beating myself up though (thanks Iron!). Instead, I'm just going to try to take a dispassionate/compassionate look at what was going on for me...skip to the bottom to avoid gory details!

Firstly, I'd had an appointment with the endocrinologist yesterday morning and weirdly enough I was disappointed (but denying that to myself) that he didn't confirm what I'd be holding out hope for: a diagnosis of hypothyroidism! I had convinced myself that my thyroid was the root of all my troubles and that, therefore, a nice little pill would fix me. The consultant said that my hormones were low across the board (including thyroid) and that I have respiratory alkalosis - basically, he said I was in a permanent stress response state akin to people who are critically ill. And that this state resulted in suppressed hormone production altogether. But, as all the markers for my organs were normal, he says my issue is 'functional' rather than disease related. Good news on the one hand but very confusing on the other. So I have been referred to a respiratory physiotherapist. He says that this condition is easily reversible and once I am breathing properly, we will be able to see more clearly whether or not there is an underlying pathology. Right now, everything is suppressed (in a stress response - or flight or fight response - reproduction, and therefore hormone production, is the last thing on the body's mind).

The strange thing is that I had already been researching the Buteyko breathing method so the blood tests and consultation validated my research. This is good news in that my instincts had already lead me to the solution but I just wasn't aware of how much I needed it. So I am going to learn how to stop hyperventilating (had no idea that I was doing this) and it should have a knock-on positive effect on all my symptoms. Weird! All afternoon I was sort of in shock and last night I was just trying to assimilate this new 'diagnosis' and perhaps felt shame for being disappointed that I don't have thyroid issues. I guess it was just a shock to the system to be told I am in a permanent stress response because it is just evidence of what I already know: that my life to date has been extremely hard and a lot of struggle.

Anyway...

So an extra, post supper binge of: 100g macadamia nuts, c. 100g brie cheese, c. 100g cream with dates dipped into it, a massive bowl of cereal with whole cream milk and cream and sugar was my solution to the problem! I am an intelligent person (apparently) so it still baffles me that I respond to distress in this way. But I have hope as a) my binges are nowhere near as bad as they used to be b) I no longer purge (coming up to 2 years) and c) I am going to get help with a global issue (breathing) which should really help to calm everything down.

The second thing which predisposed me to binge last night was this stupid ketogenic diet. I simply can't do this sort of thing without rebound bingeing. Not yet anyway. If I had 5 years of good habit behind me, maybe experimenting with different therapeutic diets would be a good idea but not at the moment with things so much in flux.

To add insult to injury, I called my Mum after the binge and we had a fight and then my brother texted me and I chose to see that in a negative light. I cried for hours afterwards.

Bring on the new breathing technique! I think all of my emotional sensitivity may reduce once my nervous system calms down.

Linda - it's so so good to hear from you. Thanks so much for what you say and sharing your history. I totally identify with curling up with the new diet that would save me. I love that you are channeling that obsession into healthy areas ie planning for the family and cooking for others. Great idea, I am going to remember that. I'm sorry to hear that your DH's father passed away...but also pleased that it afforded you the opportunity to see how strong you can be. I will write more on your page later.

Ironchef - thanks so much too for your feedback. I love hearing from you! And I hope to be eating all this luscious food without the 'permission' of also being zero carb. Porridge with sour cream - YUMMMMM indeed. I appreciate you sticking around even though you are feeling sick and tired.

Heather - thanks. Me too! I'll pop over to your thread today when I get the time:-)

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:23 am

Whew!! You really have a lot going on health wise but so glad that the solution fairly pleasant. Interesting to hear that your breathing is affecting your entire body!

Mmm, not sure if this will help but I have hypothyroidism and sadly the 1 little pill helps contain the symptoms but definitely does not fix things, so be glad that it is something else that is fixable. Even on the 1 little pill it takes huge effort and compliance to lose even a few grams of weight. ((((((Hugs))))))

Emotionally you had a lot going on yesterday and well done on still being able to acknowledge that even though you binged it was not on the usual scale.

Good luck with finding a plan that works with No S and with you.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

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Post by Kookie » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:31 am

Ah thanks so much MerryKat! I'm sorry that the 1 little pill doesn't fix everything for you. But great that it controls symptoms!! What were your symptoms? Yeah, I mean I do have low thyroid but also low everything else so I have the symptoms: tired a lot, cold alot, weight gain, bowels. I was reading a lot of Dr Ray Peat's work and even ordered his tablets from Mexico :shock: because he said people need T4 as well as T3. Anyway....he also said hypothyroidism can cause hyperventilation so that was also a bit confusing.

Oh well, important to stay positive and try and live in the now. I think I put so much on the future when I find the 'cure' for what ails me.

Have a great day MerryKat and thanks for the encouragement. :lol:

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:34 am

Hi Kookie

My major symptom with my thyroid was emotionally. I was like living with the Wicked Witch from the West - Not even I liked me!!!! Permanent exhaustion also a battle and if I over do it I definitely get worn out sooner than in the past and before others. And then weight gain.

The tablet helps emotionally but the weight is still a huge battle. I do have other health issues which also make weight loss challenging but I am determined to not use that as an excuse. I lose very very slowly but gain very quickly if I don't control my eating.

I really have found No S to be my sane place and when I follow it, the weight comes off (slowly but it comes off). I also find that when following No S everything else seems more stable and sane.

I think we all do that to a degree - If I could just do / have / be whatever then life would be perfect. I agree we need to live in the here and now and love ourselves where we are before we can make any effective changes.

Love & Hugs
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

Kookie
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Post by Kookie » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:40 pm

Check-in: All green so far this week.

Food today-
Breakfast: big bowl of muesli (gluten-free) with coconut yogurt and raspberries...yum. A bit too big though as felt very bloated and tired afterwards.
Lunch: Pork sausage, brown rice, stir-fried cabbage in coconut cream, bunch of grapes...delicious.
Supper: out with 2 girlfriends...will have a main and possibly a vegetable side dish...will also have a starter if my friends are having one.

My weekend once again started on Friday night...I think I need to resign myself to Friday night being the start of my weekend. I'd rather work with what IS otherwise it's just fail after fail. So, Friday night is the start of my weekend until Sunday lunch times. I prefer to eat 'clean' on Sundays anyway so that I don't wake up feeling like death on Monday mornings. And there is no reason for me not to start on Friday nights as I never do anything on Sunday evenings anyway. So that's that. It's still vanilla, it just runs from Friday night (from 6pm) through till Sunday lunch time (1pm). Effectively, it's from dinner on Friday until lunch on Sunday.

This week I am experimenting with cutting out my milky drinks. Black tea and black coffee for a while. Nice and simple and a proper fast between meals. Ever since my surgery, I have had terrible post-nasal drip and sinus congestion and it is so obviously exacerbated by milk. So, for now it's bye bye milk. But it's hello more carbs and more substantial meals!

Bleurgh, NoS is so great but it's still a job refraining from food obsession and weight obsession!

What else? Nothing really. Oh, I did a 20 hour fast from Sunday lunch time last weekend until Monday morning. It ran from 1:30pm on Sunday until 9:30am on Monday morning. I quite liked it and found it a walk in the park after a very wild Friday night and Saturday day and night. I might see if I can do it again this week.

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Post by clarinetgal » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:59 am

I don't think there is anything wrong with you having your S Days from Friday night through Sunday afternoon. As for dairy, I try to avoid it, because one of my symptoms after I consume it is nasal congestion. The fasting idea sounds intriguing.

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Post by Kookie » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:17 pm

Somebody shoot me but I am going on another 'experiment'. I'm too embarrassed to talk about it though as I fear disapproval - not only from you but from my own Inner Wise Woman!!

I'm incorrigible but I guess a part of me does think I need to do this for 30 days...I am struggling a lot with fatigue, digestive issues and unexplained weight gain. I'll keep the NoS structure though but with 4 meals. I will be posting my food here just to stay accountable. You might not notice anything as it'll still be lots of delicious sumptuous food.

Also, I will be meditating for the 30 days too. Stress levels need to be brought down as a matter of urgency!

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:54 am

*hugs* I know how you feel. I'm thinking of trying something more drastic as it's becoming clearer to me that my weight is the main cause of my back pain. I Think keeping it within the framework of NoS will definitely help to keep it sane at least.

Good luck with the meditating. I think that's an awesome goal.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by eschano » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:55 am

I also start my S days on Friday night and keep them until bed time on Sunday. Hasn't actually kept me from getting a normal BMI so don't worry about it.
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again January 2021

LoriLifts
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Post by LoriLifts » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:00 am

HAPPY THANKSGIVING KOOKIE!
Habits are at first cobwebs, then cables.

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