Diligence's check in

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

Moderators: Soprano, automatedeating

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Diligence
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Diligence's check in

Post by Diligence » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:49 pm

This is my first post on these fora, and I don't know how often I will check in. I am consciously restarting No S living. I've lived a No S life often in my life without realizing it -- probably well before Reinhard tried it himself. I've gotten away from healthy eating habits over time though, and I want to return to them. Admittedly, I'd like to lose some weight along with reestablishing healthy, moderated eating habits.

Yesterday was a success, and today has been so far as well. Since reading about Reinhard's methodology, when I've consciously applied No S principles, I've not tracked it. It's been life events that I've allowed to derail me. I've found it too easy to justify the unexpected stressors as excuses for how I've eaten not just on one or two days, but snowballing all too quickly into weeks and months of unhealthy eating habits. So, I probably do need apply at least some periodic tracking, especially around holidays and other stressful life events.

I am also hoping to reintroduce exercise. I've pretty much convinced myself I don't have the time for it. Somehow I have to find/make it. Right now, I'm fighting the mental tape recorder reminding me of some article I read this year about a study claiming that brief periods of regular exercise (10-15 min.) are essentially useless. I need to ignore that and forge ahead. It would probably help me to have a set number of days a week that I exercise. I need to revisit the exercise section to see if Reinhard's made frequency recommendations that may be helpful to me. I am not sure that I will get around to exercising or looking at the exercise material here today, especially considering I've already been interrupted many, many times just trying to type this up. We'll see; but, it's time to hit "submit" on this post and move on with dinner prep here.

Eating:
12/10 - Success
12/11 - Success (151.0 lb.)

Exercise:
TBD

automatedeating
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Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:16 pm

Post by automatedeating » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:58 am

Welcome!
That was pretty funny how you have said you'd been interrupted "many, many times". I so know that feeling. :)

Two things I'd like to say:
1. any movement of our bodies is good for our joints, hearts, minds and emotions. For every article/study saying that short exercise isn't great, I've found several (in fact, I was just reading one a couple days ago!) that claims that short bouts are the ONLY way to go, especially if you have a desk job. So hopefully I can break (or fix?!) that "broken record" in your head. The exercise you should do is the exercise that you'll DO! ;)
2. Just to put it out there (I'm starting to sound like a broken record on these boards myself): I had the EXACT same thoughts in my head about not having time for exercise. What has finally worked for me is walking to work every day. It's gentle, it's habit-forming, it's pleasant. Themes for me: avoiding intense exercise programs, because I don't tend to stick with them; and doing it every day, as part of a routine.

Good luck with NoS and with your research about exercise possibilities!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

Diligence
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:09 pm

Post by Diligence » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:09 pm

Thank you, automatedeating! I appreciate your welcome, support. and encouragement. :D

My S days last weekend were very sane, with just a very little nibbling on sweets as we completed most of the holiday baking that is sent out. I deliberately held off on it till the weekend so as to help me avoid the temptation to nibble on an N day.


Eating:
12/12 - Success
12/13 - Success
12/14 - S Day
12/15 - S Day
12/16 - Success
12/17 - Success
12/18 - Success
12/19 - Success (149.6 lb)


Exercise:
12/12 - >1hr. (probably about 90 min.)
Nothing since then due to illness and travel.

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NoSnacker
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Location: Buffalo, New York

Post by NoSnacker » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:29 am

Ya for me someday's when it comes to exercise I try to talk myself out of it, but once I get moving at times I go longer and other times I go only the amount I committed to.

Welcome!!! :mrgreen:
Age 56: SBMI=30.6 (12/1/13) CBMI 28.9 (2/2/14) GBMI-24.8

oolala53
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:47 pm

Hi!

Awhile back, a man wrote to Reinhard saying he had been following No S for several months and had incorporated exercise by starting with 4 minutes a day on weekdays. I'm not sure if he had worked up to 14 minutes or not, but he had lost about 40 lbs.! (Dang men!)

Do not underestimate the power of short bouts of consistent, vigorous exercise. Even if you don't lose much weight, your vitality will be a great reward. (I'm talking to myself, too.)

The sanity of No S eating will be a great reward, too, I predict.

:)
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:40 am

I don't quite have the gumption to commit to much vigorous exercise, yet, but I did just make a commitment with my sister to do a 30-second plank every day until January 1st. I told her that I wouldn't do it on Saturday or Sunday, though, and she thought that was crazy (since 30-seconds is such a small commitment). I just loftily told her in my best Reinhard imitation, "Let the minimum be the maximum." Ha! :)

I guess I'm in good holiday spirits today. :)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

oolala53
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:17 am

priceless response to your sister.

I think there is actually more benefit to taking two days off from your plank than in doing it every day.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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lpearlmom
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Location: Arizona

Post by lpearlmom » Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:17 am

Welcome diligence! Sounds like you're doing great already.

I'm right there with automated. I've found the max amount I'm willing to exercise & the max amount I'm willing to do with my eating (vanilla nos or maybe mocha nos since I allow those) and that's just going to have to good enough. I'm just not willing to make myself miserable over my weight. Especially when most of weight loss rewards are more imagined than real.

Your comment to your sister made me laugh. If you only knew the things my size 2 sister has tried to get me to do in the name of weight loss.

Linda :)
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

Diligence
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:09 pm

Post by Diligence » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:40 pm

Eating:
12/20 - Success
12/21 - Success
12/22 - Success
12/23 - Success
12/24 - Success (149.6 lb)
12/25 - S Day
12/26 - Success
12/27 - Success
12/28 - S Day
12/29 - S Day
12/30 - Success
12/31 - Success

Things are going well on the eating front. The exercise isn't happening consistently yet due to a combination of busy-ness and illnesses. I haven't weighed myself since before Christmas, so I don't know if that's changed in the desired direction.

Thank you all for your support and encouragement. I try to read most posts on the S-related fora, but I don't have much time to respond. I want you all to know that each of you is an inspiration to me. Thank you!

eschano
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Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:20 pm

Post by eschano » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:37 am

Fantastic start Diligence! Welcome.
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again January 2021

Diligence
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:09 pm

Post by Diligence » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:35 pm

Eating:
1/1 - Success
1/2 - Success (146.8 lb)

The weight drop is appreciated, but I've eaten little in the past few days. I won't be surprised if it rises after I am well enough to eat normal meals again.

Still no exercise. I've been under the weather for so long, and today has included another twist to the symptoms. It doesn't help that I have a houseful of sick people with various illnesses, and another one has fallen to illness just this evening. Still, I am hoping to get 10 days or more of exercise in this month.

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:18 am

Oh, I hope you begin feeling better too (and everyone else in your house!). You probably know this, but Sick Days are S Days......
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

middleager
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Location: New Zealand

Post by middleager » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:14 am

i hope you and your household feel better. Very impressive chart you have there.
Longest run so far: 22 days

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NoSnacker
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Location: Buffalo, New York

Post by NoSnacker » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:31 am

Wow I remember when I was sick when my children were young and trying to take care of yourself. That sure has to be tough taking care of everyone and yourself...whoaa can't imagine!

Feel better soon!
Age 56: SBMI=30.6 (12/1/13) CBMI 28.9 (2/2/14) GBMI-24.8

eschano
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Post by eschano » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:56 am

Hi Diligence, Thank you for stopping by my thread.
Seems like we are in the same boat, although I weathered the worst now. I hope you feel better soon as well!
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again January 2021

oolala53
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:29 pm

I think posting here does as much for me as it does for others. This forum and Sparkpeople (where I write more about reducing bingeing rather than No S, though I have a "team" there- 5 people, I think) have allowed me to keep from eating at the wrong times and indulge this passion/obsession. And it's free!
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

herbsgirl
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:08 am

Post by herbsgirl » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:55 pm

Thanks for stopping by my thread! I also exercise, and I can tell a difference in how I feel, mentally, I am sleeping better, falling asleep faster, helps my PCOS, ect ect, and of course weight loss, but the other health reasons are a biggie for me to keep going with it!

I do 4 miles a day with Leslie sansone Dvds
SW 218.2 10-14-13
1 mo 193.4
2 mo 178.8
3 mo 162.8
4 mo 151.4
5 mo 146.2
72 lbs lost in 19 wks 5' 6.5" 31 years old BMI 23.1
counting bites go to: countyourbites . blogspot . com

Diligence
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Post by Diligence » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:13 am

Just popping in to say I'm still sticking with No S. I've not strayed during the weekdays from No S concepts at all and didn't even take the one midweek S day I expected this month, but that's because I was terribly sick and couldn't bring myself to eat at all. I've rarely had any S's on S days even--again, because I've been so sick.

I've not been able to eat much in the past couple weeks, and I now have a procedure scheduled for this Wednesday to take care of one of the causes of my being so sick. I am hoping my health is improved for a longer period of time after Wednesday. It's just been one thing after another.

Despite not eating much, my weight has varied wildly the few times I did weigh myself--ranging from 143.2 to 150.0, the 150 being after I'd had a couple bags of IV fluids + various meds at the hospital. With as much as my body's been through, I'm not putting a lot of stock in the numbers, any of them, for the time being.

I did exercise for 2 hrs. one day but then got even worse of health-wise--not from the exercise though. Then, when I felt I might be up for exercising one day last week, I didn't. I'm glad that I didn't because I ended up with symptoms that night that I probably would have ignored otherwise--that I would have chalked up to being related to the exercises. I really needed medical attention for the condition, and so I'm glad I skipped the exercising and was able to tell that it was something urgent and serious.

I'm so behind in everyone's threads and discussions, and I'm still pretty out of it and will continue to be so for another couple days or so at least, but I hope to jump back into the discussions soon. I've been thinking of you all. Hope you all have a great week!

jw
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Location: PA

Post by jw » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:34 am

Very sorry to hear what a rough time you are having, Diligence. Exercise and even meal compliance should probably go on the back burner for now -- Sick days are S days, too. Do what you need to do to feel better!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

automatedeating
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Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:16 pm

Post by automatedeating » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:57 am

Oh, Diligence, it all sounds super rough for you right now. Thanks for updating us, and please take good care of yourself!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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lpearlmom
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Location: Arizona

Post by lpearlmom » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:21 am

Glad your still around but sorry to hear about your health. Please take care of yourself & let us know how you're doing.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

middleager
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:13 pm
Location: New Zealand

Post by middleager » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:38 am

Look after yourself. I hope things improve.
Longest run so far: 22 days

Diligence
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:09 pm

Post by Diligence » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:07 am

I'm still here and keeping to No S principles without failures. I'm still struggling with a health issue but am trying to get back to a normal life. I actually went to the store for the first time in weeks a couple days ago. I was utterly wiped out afterwards and fell deeply asleep in the early evening. It wasn't even a big shopping trip. Baby steps back to normality, I suppose.

I am staying off the scale because the one time I weighed myself since I last posted, I was so frustrated by the number. I think it could be the enormous amounts of fluid I need to drink each day (or maybe a medication even?) to help me through this health issue. I don't know for sure, but for someone who's eaten so little and been able to hold down so little, it just doesn't make sense that my weight went up, and so much so at that. So, I'm just going to continue with No S and probably wait on weighing myself again till after I get a better idea from the doctor in a month as to whether the procedure was completely successful or whether further steps need to be taken.

Thanks for all the well wishes. I've tried to keep up reading here even though I've not felt up to posting. All here continue to inspire me, especially when you admit fails and keep at it anyway and when you're able to look back at the previous days, weeks, months, or years and see how No S has transformed you in ways you've never expected. Keep it up, everyone! :D

Diligence
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:09 pm

Post by Diligence » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:24 pm

Things continue be steady with No S--no fails. I think I might have been able to guess at what automatedeating's previous footer/tag line meant with being free from snacking when angry or sad (I'm paraphrasing and probably poorly so). I think I get it. At least my interpretation of it is that I've gotten so accustomed to not snacking that, even when I am upset in some form, I do not resort to snacking. I was tempted to give in yesterday when I was in a sour mood about something, but I didn't because "I don't snack between meals on N days."

I am realizing that No S is a bit frustrating for me though. During the N days, I occasionally find myself looking forward to the freedom of the S days to come on the weekend. BUT, then when the weekend comes, and I'm glad for the freedom, I actually dislike it and look forward to not feeling like I need to take advantage of the opportunity. I'm not talking over the top S days, just not craving what I'd been looking forward to all week long--ex., a sweet. Often, if I have it even though I'm not craving it, it just gives me a stomachache or otherwise makes me feel unwell. I guess I'm still struggling with the S really meaning *sometimes* rather than mandatory. It's a frustrating cycle of craving on N days and not having an appetite for/finding things disagreeable on S days. I just need to decide I don't have to force having an S just because it is an S day and remind myself that my cravings are deceptive.

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:57 pm

So true about cravings being deceptive. So often we are just looking for something to "fill" us and so we keep trying different snacks or sweets and then the end of the day comes and we realize we are just overfull and still unsatisfied. I think that is just part of the journey of NoS, and I'm grateful to be on that journey, despite some of the hard lessons.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

Diligence
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:09 pm

Post by Diligence » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:59 pm

I am still faithfully sticking with No S, but I am discouraged. I had lost weight, some of which might have been illness-induced, and gained it all back. My plates are typically sane, normal portions. I have "regular size" plates with a wide lip on the edge (2" probably), which drops the usable area--I don't plate on the lip. I often only eat two meals a day because I'm not a fan of traditional American breakfast foods, I'm often not hungry in the morning, and I often don't have time for eating till midday or later even. My weekends are tame, and I've only taken three non-weekend S days, none of which was overboard--two of which were No S days other than cake I had during a birthday celebration. No failures either.

I have been drinking some caloric beverages (I usually stick with water or unsweetened tea, but I've been avoiding tea because I probably won't be able to drink it again due to a medical thing) because I have to drink so much with one of the health issues I've been dealing with since last month, so that could be a factor for not losing, but gaining back? I don't know, but there's both the added calories and the increased volume.

I guess it could also be a medication I'm taking for the last medical thing that came up. I won't know till late next week if I need to keep taking it, but I couldn't find anything saying that a good number of the people taking this med gain weight. It wasn't 0, but it was a slight percentage. So, I'm not hopeful that getting off this med, whenever that is, will help me lose.

I'm also hoping I can lessen the amount of I need to take in by way of liquids, but it probably won't drop tremendously. At most, maybe I can spread it out more rather than having to drink a lot in a short period of time at least three times a day. For what it is worth, my drinks have been limited to water, diet lemonade, and gatorade. I've only gone with these non-waters because I know I will probably find out I ought not drink tea anymore, and drinking as much water in such a short time as I've had to has just grown so distasteful, and I'm one who likes water.

I've rarely been able to exercise. Partly because of daily life stuff, partly because of illness stuff. I wasn't exercising before No S, and when I've lost in the past, it's usually been from dietary modifications only.

I feel so discouraged and confused--like I ought to do something different. I am unhappy with the sustained gain back to where I started. On the one hand, I was "doing better" when I ate what I wanted, when I wanted. My weight was more within my control, at least that's how I felt. I snacked and regularly ate sweets. I sometimes had seconds. If I watched what I ate, I would lose weight--now, it's not the case. I realize the health issues of the past couple months could be impacting the loss, but I'm not going to put a lot of hope in that, not because I'm holding back in this post (I'm not), but because I need to be realistic about the stats on the med and doubt that going off medication (if that's even possible) or dropping the non-water drinks will make such a huge difference in light of the changes I already made to my lifestyle in going back to No S principles.

On the other hand, I don't want to abandon No S as principal for living and eating. While I feel constrained in that I can't partake of the cookies I've made for my children or the treat I picked up from the store, I also feel free in that I don't feel like I have to eat something because it is there. I used to feel like I had to eat all of some snack so it was gone and no longer a temptation. I don't feel like that anymore, and I'm so happy for that freedom. Freedom is one of the things I appreciate about No S. Freedom and self-discipline--I don't want to give those up. I just hoped, possibly too much, that weight loss would accompany these other positives and that, at the very least, the losses I had earlier on would have had staying power.

Still, I just don't know how to channel this discouragement and how to lose weight. I don't want to take on a diet mentality, but I'm just so, so down. Is there hope for me in the losing department)? Will I just continue to gain? Thanks for any encouragement, well wishes, and prayers you might offer.

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:30 pm

Hi diligence, I'm so sorry you're feeling discouraged. I don't think you can really judge the effectiveness with just a couple a months of nos under your belt. NoS is a very slow process for most of us. I don't know how tall you are but at 150 lbs I doubt you have a whole lot to lose?

So expect very slow almost imperceptible results for awhile and with the rebound weight after your illness, you may be thrown off a bit as well. So I know it's hard--patience, patience, patience.

On a side note, I tried NoS a few years ago and gave up because I didn't lose weight. I went off of it, gained more weight and then a couple years later came crawling back. It's been six months, I think I've lost about 15-20 lbs and have a healthy relationship with food for the first time in well forever.

Hang in there & good luck!


Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

oolala53
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:23 pm

Sorry to hear of your disappointment regarding weight loss. I don't know what I would have done if I had lost nothing, though I actually came into No S determined to do it even if I didn't lose weight. I did believe I would eventually, but it was only about 10 lbs. a year and I weighed 35 lbs. more than you do when I started. I've stayed steady for about a year, but my BMI is just inside the normal range. (I've shrunk an inch since I started No S.) I could get very unhappy about not being smaller, but I won't let myself. It's not realistic because I know I am not willing to consistently eat less than I am, at least for now. I also know that women in our culture are very influenced by the media, such that most of them desire to be a weight that puts them in the thinnest 5% for there age/height peers. That's a lot to ask, and statistically isn't likely. Nor necessary for health, certainly.

But I can't decide for someone else.

Would you be willing to tell us how old you are and how tall?
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Diligence
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:09 pm

Post by Diligence » Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:21 pm

It has been a good while since I posted and since I've been able to keep up with the board. I decided to just dive in with a new post today rather than trying to make specific time to catch up and then post.

I've still been sticking with No S faithfully. Because of health issues, I've started to try eating differently. I have no idea whether it will help, but I'm giving it a try because I'm tired of feeling terrible most of the time. I've done the doctor and testing route numerous times in years past and didn't get much of anywhere. Most tests come out normal, and those that are "off" don't explain away all of my symptoms.

As for weight loss, not much happening there. I did lose a couple pounds after I dropped the gatorade and diet lemonade I was drinking to help me get through a time when I had to really up my fluids, but that was it. I still need to drink a good bit, but not as much as before. I've lost a couple other pounds in the last week, which was a surprise considering that I've been stuck. Who knows if it is a result of having just started to change some foods in my diet.

I'm still not happy with my weight. I saw a thread on the general No S board asking what would you tell your younger self, or something along those lines. I probably would say that if you don't take care of yourself and consistently eat moderately, you will end up wishing the weight you're discontent with now (back then, that is) will be a goal today. I used to be so uncomfortable in my skin at 133, physically uncomfortable--that my body didn't like the extra weight, that it didn't feel right (I'm not referring to outward appearances, but I'm not sure how else to describe this physical sensation). I would have preferred to be 125 or less back then.

125 would be fine with me now too, but I'd be "happy" to be "stuck" at 133, for a good while at least--I don't know whether I'd decide I was dissatisfied at that weight eventually. It doesn't help that I've noticed, now that I'm getting "old," that my trunk is thickening with this weight in way it hadn't in times past when I've been at this weight. I'm guessing this is a sign that it's going to be a long road to lose the weight, that I'm at that age where weight doesn't come off easily.

Still, I'm not giving up the moderate lifestyle of No S in the name of a number. If there's a health reason to change out of moderation, so be it. For now, the health concerns are just affecting my choices of the actual food I eat rather than the moderation of No Sweets, No Snacks, and No Seconds except Sometimes on days that start with S. Here's to hoping that the dietary adjustments will bring relief, and if they don't that it will be abundantly clear how I am to proceed.

Yet again, I've been interrupted so many, many times trying to type this post up. I'm just going to stop here and hit submit as it doesn't seem there will be uninterrupted time today to finish my thoughts.

Diligence
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Post by Diligence » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:02 pm

Linda, I'm pasting in what you posted in auto's thread in response what I posted there:
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:24 am
Hope I'm not out of line here but wanted to respond to what Diligence brought up re: kids & amounts. Ellyn Satter who is a child dietician recommends allowing children to eat as much as they want at meal & snack time but as soon as meal time is over, kitchens closed till next meal or snack.

She recommends parents say when & what when it comes to food, but children should be allowed to say how much so they don't lose touch with their natural internal regulation. Limiting amounts can backfire in big ways.

For more info:

http://ellynsatterinstitute.org/htf/chi ... dtoeat.php

Don't mean to offend. Just my two cents!

(Sorry auto--back to YOU!)

Linda
I am not offended at all and glad for you to share a differing perspective. :)

As a general rule, I agree. But... you sensed that was coming, right? :wink:

The "but" is three-fold:

1.) These particular children of mine I'm referring to (most of them) do seem to be eating excessive amounts. My children are mostly older than yours and are all boys. I know how much boys eat, and this is a lot for them even at their ages. I had expressed concern to my husband before, but it wasn't till it came up in conversation that more than one of my boys under the age of 12 who had gone out to eat with my parents ordered two full adult meals a piece. The place where they ate has humongous portions to begin with. Most adults have trouble finishing the smallest burger they offer there. I was so mortified to learn this -- both from the apparent excess but also the expectation that cost was not an concern--a sort of lack of gratitude for a single meal vs. two whole adult-sized meals. That's when my husband started thinking about their dinner eating habits more seriously. For what it is worth, they do eat three meals a day with a larger lunch than traditionally eaten by school-aged children in my experience (We homeschool, so I'm basing it on what I remember as well as what I see from time to time of traditionally-schooled children's lunches), and often snack in the morning, afternoon, or both. So, it is not as if they should theoretically be starving by the dinner to account for such full plates and multiple trips back for more.

2.) They often opt for carbohydrate dense foods, which many here personally have noticed leads them to eat more than they would have otherwise. I would like them to not rely so much on carbs, but I am also trying to balance that with my husband's and their tastes as well as a budget. I cannot eat much of what they eat because it upsets my stomach so much, but it took me years to figure that out. Back to my intended point though, I think the carbs may be triggering them to eat more than their appetites would otherwise tell them. This is something I still need to figure how to address.

3.) I don't know about you, but when I'm more careful about what I eat, whether it's ingredients (often it's the ingredients/preparation for me), quantities, # of times eating in a given day, etc., my appetite lessens with time. When I go back to lousy eating habits (for ex., fast food, sweets, salty foods, food heavy on the carbs--this can even happen on an S weekend for me if I eat even a little bit of something sweet or salty), my appetite expands. It might rebel short-term and signal that I'm full, but it quickly adjusts to the larger portions, more frequent consumption of food, or what-have-you, and, voila!, I have a new, expanded fullness level. Maybe it's not as scientific as the Satter method, but it takes more for me to be full. Similarly, I suspect that these precious children of mine -- even though they're very slim and very much on the low side of weight for their ages --- may have also been deceived into a different fullness level by their over-consumption of food. I'd like them to have a healthier relationship with food in which they can actually taste their food rather than scarfing it down so fast that they could barely appreciate it on their palates.

I think we're on the same page about letting them eat to satiety, but I strongly suspect their satiety signals are mixed up right now based on what I've been witnessing and my experiences as a mom of boys. I think it is a matter of time before their natural internal regulation normalizes. Having read the above, you and others may still disagree with me, and I'm okay with that; I'm just not willing to debate it (& I'm not saying you are debating) as it's something we're trying out with the hope that they will be able to recognize when they are truly full/satisfied. Although I don't know how it will turn out, we're hoping will improve their relationship with food (nourishing vs. never-enough/never-ending). I expect developing a healthy relationship with food is something no one here would argue against (other than the occasional forum troll, of course... :lol:). :D

I appreciate your concern and for sharing what you've learned, Linda. I really, really do. Thank you for taking the time to express concern and back it up with what you have learned. :D

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:02 am

Hi Diligence!

Thank you for the detailed response. Clearly you have thought through this whole thing from every angle and only you have all the facts so only you can make the best decision for your kids!

I never would have even said anything but feel so strongly about this subject when it comes to children. My well meaning parents really messed with my ability to have a healthy relationship with food so I decided to take a risk and say something just in case it struck a cord with you.

Thanks for being open minded and great to see how thoughtful you're being! It's so hard to be a parent and I believe there's many ways to raise great kids. In the end we just have to do what works best for our families.

Linda :)
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:03 pm

So interesting to see the differing sides of the eating issue.

I live it in my house:
- My eldest (16) will eat anything and everything and will not stop till he has cleared the serving dishes most meals.

- My youngest (9) is lazy and needs constant chivvying to finish a meal.

I dish them appropriate plates for their ages and activity for the day (and past history) and my eldest can have seconds once he has waited for everyone else to finish (lets the messages reach the brain). My youngest has to eat 90% of what is on his plate (I do not give him a lot).

I don't want to control them but like Diligence there comes a point where my eldest is just eating for the sake of eating and to create a stir! With my youngest I don't want to force feed him but he needs a certain amount to be healthy and functional.

My kitchen is also not open indefinitely!!

So interesting to read of other peoples experiences and solutions with their children.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:53 pm

Diligence, just want to mention that Scatter says parents choose what to offer and when, so it's valid not to offer as many processed carbs, if that is an area of concern. Tough stuff, though. I hear adults who have bad memories almost no matter what parents do. Some complain that their parents never taught them to eat moderately; others that the parents watched and limited their eating too much. To some degree, they are on their own, but you are not required to provide them with all they CAN eat.

Do they get an allowance? Perhaps you can institute a processed food budget. Everyone gets a minimum, but after that, they pay for it. I dunno. It sounds crazy but it might make an impression.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Diligence
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Post by Diligence » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:27 pm

MerryKat wrote:I don't want to control them but like Diligence there comes a point where my eldest is just eating for the sake of eating and to create a stir! With my youngest I don't want to force feed him but he needs a certain amount to be healthy and functional.
I definitely know what you're talking about MerryKat. :D I've had both types of eaters.

oolala, lot of our food is from scratch, but it seems like the flour-based and other carb-heavy items have a tendency to trigger the endless eating. Traditional, store-bought junk food traditionally is served by means of well-intended extended family members. I've thrown out candy before and will do so again (ice cream is harder to deal with, but I've had to beg off before citing that I literally had no room for it). Thankfully the Easter loot that came home wasn't nearly as candy-laden as usual, and I had enough presence of mind to skip buying any candy in light of the overload we normally receive. I do express my concern to these family members and ask for no junk, but we're fighting other "battles" -- like the too many toys/other presents -- and I think we're making some limited headway there, so I'll keep at it but also realize that I can figure creative ways to deal with the junk food if need be (sent into work with my husband, thrown out, rationed over an extended time, etc.). Frankly, there are plenty of times that candy just sits here because we don't think about it regularly. Meal time food is another issue though; a couple of them just gobble it up and then some.

So, like you've suggested, oolala, I've thought at different times about changing the meal offerings so as to avoid possible overeating triggers. I've been really busy lately with other things, so I've only been remembering that I need to think more concretely about what this would look like, whether it's economically feasible, different/altered logistics of menu planning and grocery shopping, etc.

For now, the one plate at dinner is working out with hardly a complaint these days. As for my own No S journey, I've been sticking with it still. Weight loss is very, very slow but happening. I'm still very happy with the moderation, sensibility, and structure it's helped me achieve. I wish I'd stuck with the concept when I used years ago (pre-Reinhard).

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:12 pm

I call flour-based foods "particle" foods. I think of them as having skipped a digestive step, so there's reason to be judicious with them. I don't shun them completely, but I probably eat a lot less of them than the average American bear. French and Italian bears don't seem to have a problem, but the bears there don't encourage over consumption of anything! I think you are doing a great job trying to balance freedom and responsibility. :)
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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