Everyday Systems

Bear in mind: This is just a small nitpick, I do not have the intention of being arrogant at all. If I come across this way, I apologize in advance.

To the subject-mobile!
Right. I've seen a lot of people on this forum mention having been vegan for a while, then reverted back to vegetarianism/eating meat, et-cetera. No problem there, I'm not preaching against that.
However, this seeming shift between omnivorism (my spell-checker doesn't like that word, but I'm not sure what to use instead) and veganism implies that the meaning is entirely dietary. "Vegan" means someone who abstains from using all animal products, including honey, leather, silk and furs. One may argue that people who brand themselves "vegans" without knowledge of the other side of the term are really "dietary vegans", but that's quite redundant. The correct term is simply vegetarian.
Lacto-ovo vegetarians are people called simply "vegetarian", which I do not believe is false. However, the word vegetarian is quite sufficient for "dietary vegans".

Apologies again! As a vegan myself, this matters a lot to me. It is not because I have this arrogant notion of being in a special, limited club, but for sake of clarity, and correct terminology. Just as someone who drives a car cannot call himself a pilot (the assumption being that he does not operate planes), I feel that people that don't fit the description of a vegan can not call themselves that.

This was all written with the assumption in mind that all who had called themselves vegan here meant it in a dietary way, this is not directed to those that did indeed abstain from all animal derivative products while "vegan".
I hope my message went through without offending anyone, and without anyone thinking I am some kind of elitist.

Thank you for reading.

(edit: removed an automatically added BBCode tag)

Good for you Neptunus
My Son is a Vegetarian and eats fish so he calls himself a pescetarian LOL...
I started the whole thing with him a couple of years ago, but then I reverted to eating meat.. I just didn't feel right.. I'm proud to say that my Son stuck to it even after I quit. He has not eaten meat or poultry for two years now and he's 12 years old.
He has absolutely no desire to go back to meat.
How long have you been Vegan?
Peace
Debs

That's excellent, about your son! The ideals of the young can be fiercely strong, I have noticed.
I have been vegan since I was thirteen.
Up until that time, I followed the same lifestyle as your son, eating fish, but no other meats.
I realize that the lifestyle isn't for everyone, but for me, it just clicked perfectly when I found out about it.

Yeah, I have a niece who became a vegan/vegetarian on her own when she was like 4 or 5 and is now almost 18 and that is just the way she is! Her sister is definitely not a vegetarian...

Some people do need to be a vegetarian. Their body chemistry just doesn't need or like the meat. It is usually blood type A people who are most likely to be that way.

Luckily I'm a blood type B and can eat just about anything, but in the last few months have cut way back on meat and will go a week or more at a time now without eating any.

Hi Dai, just curious why you say it's the blood type that has to do with their natural inclination to eat or not eat meat? Where did you learn this?
Have a nice weekend.
Peace,
Debs

From reading the blood type diet books and from several personal experiences with people with various blood types.

I'm sure it isn't 100%, but every one I've met with type A blood would do better on a vegan type diet. Just and observation...

Okay thanks Dai
Hahah that's funny, because back in 2005 when a person suggested to check out the blood type diet to me, I went online and looked it up on google, I saw Reinhard's little google ad for NoS saying "If you were thinking of the blood type diet...." don't bother or something to that effect!
And that's how I found NoS!
Thank God
Have a nice weekend.
Debs

There are a few doctors here in the U.S. who advocate a vegan diet for health and I'm one of a few people here who followed one of their programs for a while. Hence "vegan for a while." I understand that being vegan is more than a way of eating, but "vegan" gives people an understanding of how and what you're eating (or not eating).

dai479 wrote:Yeah, I have a niece who became a vegan/vegetarian on her own when she was like 4 or 5 and is now almost 18 and that is just the way she is! Her sister is definitely not a vegetarian...

Some people do need to be a vegetarian. Their body chemistry just doesn't need or like the meat. It is usually blood type A people who are most likely to be that way.

Really? I've got type A blood and I cannot, physically, function on a vegetarian diet. Last time I tried, I lost my short-term memory for text, which was really weird and disturbing. The doctor could not find any vitamin or nutrient deficiencies, or in fact, anything wrong at all - but I certainly felt like there was something wrong. A few days after I went back to eating meat, my memory came back.

That's crazy!!! Glad you figured it out!!

Do you eat lots of red meat or more chicken and fish type??

Hi Neptunus!

Thanks for clearing that up. I must admit I've been an offender in that respect! I was dietarily 99% vegan for 10 years (I ate honey very very occasionally) until recently. I do still avoid use of leather, wool, silk, furs etc. though.

It's a shame there isn't a more suitable concise word to use, I used to say vegan to people just to avoid having to go into a long winded explanation (and so that in restaurants or at friend's houses I wouldn't be given food loaded with cheese, eggs and butter).

Anyway, due to some serious nutritional deficiencies (B12, Iron, Vitamin K2, and possible others) I've had to abandon the "mostly vegan" diet I was subsisting on. It wasn't an easy decision to make, and I'm sure many true vegans would not be happy with me! But I basically had to make a decision between my mind (believing in vegan ethics) and my body (which has given clear signals that a vegan diet, even with supplements, just isn't enough for me).

I'm not sure what to call myself these days, as I now eat mostly plant based with occasional eggs, and I plan to include some fish occasionally too. I guess that is something like macrobiotic or pescatarian. I still avoid dairy though due to lactose intolerance.

I guess I just wanted to relay my experience as a cautionary tale so you don't end up with similar health issues. It sounds like you're committed to veganism, so I'd seriously recommend that you get the best quality B12, iron and vitamin K2 sources you can find and doing some research into the importance of these. I know that Reinhard, along with other writers like Michael Pollan aren't keen on the emphasis on nutrients, but when you fully exclude some foods I think focusing on particular nutrients becomes a salient issue.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, I admire you for sticking to fully vegan principles!

p.s. another tip - use pure coconut oil as an alternative to butter, it's natural and very healthy IMO. It's solid at room temperature, less rich tasting than butter and less greasy than margarine. Nice on english muffins

p.p.s. just in case you're wondering how B12, iron & K2 deficiencies manifests, think chronic fatigue, recurrent infections, depression/lack of motivation, receeding gums/tooth enamel deterioration & general lack of vitality. It's very unpleasant and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It took me by surprise because I was dillegent about taking supplements, but it seems my system just isn't good at assimilating supplements.

Marmite is a great source of B vitamins Bonnie.. I'm not too keen on the taste in large amounts, but a little goes a long way.
Also, I think i read something that said that all orange foods, like carrots, cantaloupe, and sweet potatoes are all high in beta carotene. Bananas have a lot too, I think??
Most supplements are hard to actually digest, especially if they are in tablet form.. the compressing together to make the tablet keeps them from breaking down and getting digested.

Good health to you
Debs

hello all,
This seems to be an ongoing debate, but you know I am not sure I get your point. Do you object to being called "vegan", as in the word itself?

I always thought the word was a poor description of what the sub text of vegetarianism is, but English is strange. Yes, there are many good sources for protein other than meat or poultry.


take time out....oolong tea

I don't object to it at all, it is when non-vegans call themselves vegans that I get annoyed. The definition for the word "vegan" is very clear, and is not purely a dietary choice.

So my nit-pick is when people who use wool/leather/silk/other animal-derived product call themselves vegan (or are called vegan by others).

I didn't realize that Vegan referred more than just dietary choices. I appreciate the clarification though because I am nit-picky when it comes to language. Clearly we need some new terminology.

*Takes a big chunk out of his juicy steak and watches the conversation*

Oh, don't mind me, carnivore passing through.

^ +1

I have seen the term "pure vegetarian" used for those who do not consume dairy or eggs.