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oolala53
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3120
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well my average posts per year is like 1,000 whereas yours is about 845 (yep I did the math).

But seriously it wouldn't be the same without you. You know how painful dealing with these eating issues can be so I don't think you should ever feel badly about trying to help others find peace with that. 👍

Linda 💖
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, LInda! Don't know how I missed this. In fact, I'm posting something here now that has nothing to do with food because I saw comments on YOUR thread about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsKbHXWxNeY

prolly old news to everyone here.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

haven't been here for awhile and was reading through some posts.

I wanted to say I know I can adopt a new cuisine, but what I'd really like is to live in the whole culture that it occurs in. However, those cultures depend a lot on long friendships and relationships. The Blue Zone authors admit that is a non-food item that is likely a big part of their longevity. That's a little--no, probably a lot--harder to recreate or join in on. What's in it for them to enfold newcomers in? And could I ever completely relate to and feel at home with people who had had such different concerns for their whole lives? I dunno. But it doesn't really occupy a lot of my time. I'm more concerned with trying to that here at home, and it's work even where I know the language and was raised amongst 'em!

Also want to briefly say I feel like some of my experimentation has continued and gotten more comfortable. I feel that a greater variety of meals are now satisfying and I can surf my hunger and lack of it a little better. Which is not to say I haven't eaten a bit more today than I intended since I"m due to leave for a potluck pretty soon. (And the dance class I was going to go to before got cancelled. I was looking forward to a good sweat before food.) But I feel now that I can more easily go back to being moderate.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Dandelion



Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Posts: 643

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reading some old posts and you mentioned this:

"There is talk on the web of plate size growing over the years, but I have my parents' china and the plates are as big as my modern ones'

I have my husband's grandmothers old china - the dinner plates are as large as our dinner plates - and I always use one of the smaller salad plates and have for years, otherwise my small portions look so forlorn.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a wild day after Valentine's on discount candy. Boy it was delicious, but my body hasn't recovered. Actually, it hasn't recovered from the ensuing eating I did in an attempt not to restrict. In fact, I was ultra generous in non-sweet eating to make sure I didn't seem to be punishing myself. I haven't felt hungry for a second, but I ate breakfast in and a lunch out (day off from school.) It's non-canoncial but I am skipping dinner because I am still way too full from two slices of bread, a cup of minestrone, and half a portion of lasagna.

I asked Reinhard about how often weather has stopped him from walking to work and he said it hadn't. In Cambridge! Here in SoCal today, rain was predicted, but it was mostly just windy until about an hour ago. So, by golly, I put on a scarf and a coat, hung my umbrella on my arm, and walked to a local restaurant for lunch. (Day off for long weekend.) It's still only 58 deg. here at 7:15 p.m., and by only I mean not cold. So it was actually warmer when I went walking, but it was so overcast and windy I had assumed it was colder out. (And I have concrete floors, which also connote cold. )

But anyway, I did it. A measly 3,000-ish steps, but more than if I hadn't gone. Not sure I would do it in the rain. But despite our higher rainfall this year, it really is not an issue enough to be a good excuse.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Bluebell



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 231
Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome! Very Happy I think the hardest part of exercising is just getting up and doing it. You gave yourself a reason to walk and got on with it. I need to do the same!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once a week whether I need it or not!
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Bluebell



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 231
Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that's my type of exercise regime! Laughing
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noni



Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a place to go while walking is so nice. I hate walking if there is no-where to go. I do have a bank, about a two mile round trip, but I need warm weather for that.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually often like walking in my neighborhood, but it still helps to have a destination.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3120
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy weather! Great job still walking in the rain!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I never had any rain while I was walking for exercise.

Though it's not true to No S, I have continued to experiment with having at least a couple of days a week on which I eat quite a bit less. There is just so much evidence for the value of temporary decreases in energy intake (and for periodic large gaps between meals). I think eventually it will l work into some kind of routine habit. The biggest issue is not allowing relatively inevitable subtle influences to drive up eating on the other days. I don't tend to push to stay low if I am actually feeling real hunger. But it tneds to work out that some days my appetite is so light that it makes perfect sense not to eat much. It's giving me an excuse to cooperate with that. And I do find that I enjoy more of my meals again.

I'm just finishing what I consider to be a successful 2-day cycle of light and moderate eating. I feel very content after my supper two hours ago!
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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RAWCOOKIE



Joined: 18 Jun 2015
Posts: 1229
Location: Cornwall, UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent - that sounds like a very positive result.

I read someone's Secret of Success on Spark People yesterday about carb-cycling - it was a helpful blog about the principles of it. I'm considering making some changes in March - mostly around having a carb-free meal at least once a day (that is, the major carbs like bread, potatoes, pasta, rice). I know that's not what you're doing, but it's kind of a similar route to eating slightly less at some meals (snack size!)
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm doing some "low" eating this week, something I plan to do close to the turn of each season. I did it twice last year. Hope to get in at least three cycles and maybe all four.

I feel like it's a bit of an early Lent activity. It's coming naturally today- I proabably would have done something similar on my own, and I think it will continue. I'm not really worried about it. No social events this week, and certainly no pressure to indulge before Wednesday. Thank you, No S!
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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bunsofaluminum



Joined: 15 May 2016
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh that's right...Lent. Pancakes tomorrow!

I'm interested in your "low eating"...just a low calorie day? Smaller meals, only one meal?
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never knew of the pancake-Fat Tuesday connection. Just had a big one on Sunday. Doesn't sound appealing now. Glad! There's always next weekend...
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since this is not really No S, I'd rather tell you more details privately.

Feeling a bit empty tonight but I know from many experiences that I will often wake up with no hunger after feeling like this, so I'm looking forward to the body tapping into its stores.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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RAWCOOKIE



Joined: 18 Jun 2015
Posts: 1229
Location: Cornwall, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The junk-food free island sounds very desirable! I wonder if we'd crave those things if we didn't see them all around us? Probably not!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd bet that the cravings for junk would fade over time, especially if we were getting adequate food consistently.

I'll be honest and say that my temporary routine is a little difficult tonight. I"m so glad I don't believe I have to live like this for weeks and years. But I think I'm getting used to the idea of having some rather light days more consistently. (Have I said this a bunch of times before and don't realize it?) I wish it happened without my thinking about it much, but my S days didn't die down on their own, either. Maybe it's something I'm doing wrong, but I don't want to analyze it much. Better to find something else to think about or do.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3120
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My S days still haven't really got into a comfortable groove. I think I'm just not capable of having an unstructured day. Well unless I'm super busy or something.

Anyway I don't know if you said before but how did you finally reign in your S days (if you don't mind saying)?

Linda
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure they are completely reined in, but adequate.

My two biggest issues were cookie dough and basically way overdoing sweets when alone. So, no cookie dough ever. (That's still hard to say. I still have fond memories!) And no sweets alone. Since I'm alone a lot, it cuts down on what I can have.

I have had slips, but this made a big difference. And it made it more possible to also bite the bullet and not graze so much on weekends, either.

I also sometimes ate just two meals on weekends. Gave myself permission to eat less volume or less often because I was darn full.

The thing is to figure out what the most impactful habit is and figure out how aggressive you can be. Weaning is acceptable but plunging is an option, too.

I still often feel lost on S days but I've narrowed the grazing window, and it's usually just on one day.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you might be triggered by reading about calorie limits, STOP NOW!

Disclaimer: this is not about weight loss.

I am doing a short stint of calorie reduction. I believe it is doing good things for me, but it doesn't mean it's easy. Tomorrow is my last day. It seems to be a bit tougher than I remember from the last two times I did it. I used some packaged foods because I felt like the meal prep was a little too obsessive, but today, I was missing those prepared meals. However, I've also liked not having dishes and the ease. For my next round in two or three months, I might do half and half.

But, Lordy, I feel for so many people who have stuck to similar plans for months on end. How much stronger they have been than I! And likely only to have the pendulum swing.

Am I kidding myself to think I will be so happy when I can eat more again that I will be grateful for a bit smaller meals, so that I won't feel too full too much of the time? Well, we shall see. But I am thinking a lot more of just my regular fare than diving into pizza or such. Rye berries, beans, vegetables and sauce sound really good, as does a peanut butter sandwich.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7017
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

P. S. I was looking at the profile of a woman on Spark who I've watched a bit. She has never officially been a No S-er, but her eating plan has evolved to just three meals a day. She's a lot thinner than I am, despite teh fact that she eats a lot more than I do, but eats quite a limited range, or it would be for me. However, it's been an evolution, and she says she is very happy with her eating. She's also a runner, and if that's what it would take, it just ain't gonna happen.

One thing that struck me is she says she doesn't have cravings anymore, and that in 2015, she committed to never eat when she had cravings.

Never eat when she had cravings.

That sounds so hard and yet it's so... right. THAT is exactly the time not to eat the craved food. That is the way to break the bond. Never have it when you really want it, only when it's less crucial. I assume it means that she may have had craved foods planned food at meals, not in response to a craving. It sounds like she eventually dropped most of those foods from her diet.

I still have a few things that I eat in a way that I'm not pleased with. Does it mean giving them up completely or determining a situation to limit them to?

Don't have to figure it out tonight.

BTW, for anyone who's interested, here are the reasons I'm "eating low" this week. People who followed this protocol periodically "decreased amounts of the hormone IGF-I, which is required during development to grow, but it is a promoter of aging and has been linked to cancer susceptibility. It also increased the amount of the hormone IGFBP-, and reduced biomarkers/risk factors linked to diabetes and cardiovascular disease, including glucose, trunk fat and C-reactive protein without negatively affecting muscle and bone mass."

I especially like the last point.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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noni



Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala, do you have to count calories on this low-cal diet? And is it a 3-meal structure?

I have an older ex-runner friend whose knees are sometimes braced up. Whenever she e-mails me, she always includes a report on how her knees having been feeling lately, what supplements are working or not working, etc...
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do have to adhere to calorie limits for 5 days. The makeup of each day' calories is also strictly prescribed. The majority of the calories come from fat. The ratios are not meant to be permanent. It's been determined that these limits and ratios are needed to spur the changes mentioned. There is no prescribed meal structure. People can spread the food out however they want, but because of my background, I have not been dribble drabbling it out all day long, unlike some of the suggestions I've seen. The first day has enough food for three distinct meals. On the others, I've chosen to have nothing or almost nothing for breakfast because that's close to my habit now.

Today is the last day. As is so common for me now, I was longing for a bit more food yesterday afternoon and a little in the evening. This morning, I'm feeling things are humming along. It will probably come and go today, but the way I calculate it, I have just three more meal gaps to surf through. Then the body will swing into regeneration of "fresher" cells.

I'm just intrigued by the idea that periodic spurts of this kind of thing can have very similar results to chronic restriction, restriction beyond what most people can happily live with. The body does some incredible things besides get into fat stores when a person does this.

And I feel able to because my hunger levels had decreased naturally anyway, but my desire levels hadn't. I'm not saying this will fix that, but it just means that this wasn't torture, even if there has been some discomfort.

I'm finding the reason behind the behavior makes all the difference.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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TexArk



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 660
Location: Foothills of the Ozarks

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You said, "One thing that struck me is she says she doesn't have cravings anymore, and that in 2015, she committed to never eat when she had cravings.

Never eat when she had cravings.

That sounds so hard and yet it's so... right. THAT is exactly the time not to eat the craved food. That is the way to break the bond."

This sounds just like Gillian Riley's argument which first worked for her and others with breaking smoking addiction. And it rings true to Guyenet's new book, The Hungry Brain. They also disagree with the idea of distraction (bubble baths, etc.) saying you can't retrain the brain until you break the loop. You ride out the wave so to speak. I personally think heading out the door and getting some fresh air is a good way for me to ride it out...maybe that's a distraction, but I think they are right that a substitute for a craving isn't the answer. Not giving in to a craving over and over and over is what has to be done.
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noni



Joined: 27 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've taken note of your age, and I find that as I also get older I need more drastic measures, because I still need to lose weight. That's why I went to even smaller plates.

I remember some years ago reading about people on WW that would cycle their calories during the week. The total weekly point count for the individual remained the same all week, but they shook it up some to break a plateau.
It wasn't a WW approved move, though.

Is this the same idea for your program?
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The program is not about losing weight or affecting the metabolism. It's a modified fast to mimic complete water fasting, a practice which triggers first protective and then regenerative mechanisms that counteract internal aging. To do this, the calorie counts need to be pretty low and the nutrient ratios rather precise, or the process can backfire. It is definitely not meant to be continued for more than those five days at a time. It can benefit unhealthy people to do it once a month, but for those in good health, it can be just a few times a year. Any weight lost during the time is usually recovered quickly because it's mostly water and inferior cells that are lost. The water is replenished and newer, better cells are formed.

Had a good first normal day eating.

I was inspired to look at my copy of Eating Less by Gillian Riley. I read it years ago but don't remember it making much of an impression. I kept it anyway because it wasn't a diet or weight loss book. I'm just getting going but a lot of it is reinforcing or expressing what I've though or learned along the way. I agree with her that "weight loss as a principal goal is fundamentally flawed." Another way she says it is "The first step in learning to control your addictive eating is to stop asking how to lose weight." I think Reinhard stumbled on this by targeting moderation as the goal rather than weight loss. If I remember correctly, she recommends no program quite as codified, but she is not just about IE or many of the more commonly known ways of reducing eating. She claims in the introduction that it's also not about unresolved emotional issues but in leafing through, I saw a section on recommending raising self-esteem as a better focus than traditional weight loss methods. I don't disagree completely but I would call not having high enough self-esteem an unresolved emotional issue. Maybe she meant the implication that there were precipitating emotional traumas that resolved would defeat the eating, but she rightly points out that people eat when they're happy, too.

Anyway, it should be interesting, especially when I see how much I've forgotten.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Amy3010



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 972
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have her book, too, and I agree with you - her ideas have a lot in common with the No-S approach. Her "plans" and "times" can almost be seen as a kind "as you go" approach to limiting eating the way we do on N days. It's interesting to see someone else's take on a very similar method. I guess that's why I still have her book, too!

Kathryn Hansen, in the book Brain over Binge, is very formal in the idea that it doesn't help to avoid the craving (what she calls the "impulse to binge") - those impulses can only be diminished by having them and actively dismissing them. Consciously riding them out, so that your brain lays down new neurological pathways of different response to the impulses. Gillian Riley says this, too. Of course, it's simple but not easy, especially when those impulses often arise at a moment when it's hard to be aware enough to let your higher brain take over the reigns, and do something different in response. I think going out for a walk is probably a good response to deflecting a craving - you could say it's distraction, but it's also allowing the impulse to happen without giving into it, which is what has to happen, over and over again, until it calms down.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I mentioned above, Schwartz found that the brain changed in those with OCD when they distracted. Perhaps it's a different change than Riley thinks happens with her process. I believe anything you do that is NOT eating is in effect a replacement, whether it's actively doing something else or just sitting with it. Riley even quotes Schwartz, but I think I understand her worry that a person can then become dependent on the distraction. Yes, it's true that sometimes, a person needs to just ride out the discomfort of desire. Or maybe that's not what she's talking about at all. I'm still reading.

Walking I would put in the category of being either a pleasurable or productive (Schwartz) distraction. Riley is in favor of exercise, but I think she might still call going for a walk a distraction, if it's not done for its own sake. What happens if a person hurts her leg and can't walk as a distraction? But I'm not against distraction. For me, walking is often delay. I can have the jonesing feeling either during or just under the surface during the walk. But it is a better option than eating before the walk.

Having read some more, I think I see her distinction. I think her premise is that the element of choice is crucial. I make the choice to either eat at meals, and go for a walk if I get the desire to eat outside that structure. I know there are consequences either way, I and I choose because I want a consequence I associate with that action. I don't do either because someone else said to do it or to rebel against their saying not to do it. I do one or the other because I've determined that it's what I choose to do, even if I feel conflicted. I may not be able to choose whether or not I have a desire to eat, but I either believe there is a compelling value in eating at any one moment or not, or I don't. I also have to know there is a consequence that I must accept. Otherwise, I'm in denial.

I like Hansen a lot, too, (haven't read the whole book, mostly her site); I was already using a lot of her outlook. I had read her inspiration, Jack Trimpey, before No S. But I take issue with the idea that it doesn't take willpower. If it takes any effort at all to ignore the urges, that's willpower, and the experience of millions shows it does take effort. Maybe it didn't for her, but it seems a lot to expect for others to have her experience. Hansen to some degree was lucky that her case wasn't more complicated, and it does sound like she didn't have a lot of problems with self-esteem and body hatred, which can jumble the process. I am probably repeating myself but I also think her insistence (at least in later writings) that people eat often and to avoid decreasing calories compromises the efforts and health of a lot of people reading her, many of whom I'd bet are quite overweight or obese. She wasn't even overweight! I don't mean that everyone needs to get thin, but it is absolutely natural and advantageous for the body to eating little enough to drain some of the stores it accumulated through periods of overeating. The ability to store fat and then use it is central to our development as a species. I"m probably preaching to the choir here.

Even slim people show great benefit from periods of eating less than normal for them, but that's another story.

Noni, I meant to add that the cycling you mentioned from WW seems to parallel No S and S days, don't you think? In my case, I often eat even less on one S day a week because less food ends up feeling better. I know it's contributed to my weight loss, but it wasn't the incentive. I also say it wasn't easy, as the desire to eat was often there even when I wasn't hungry. I'm finding now that it was actually a beneficial thing to do. But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone just to speed up weight loss, unless they believe there is a medical reason for it. But I believe the actual loss is never the healing part, but the chemical changes that happen, often simultaneously. Sometimes the healing happens without weight loss and doesn't happen even with it.

I agree with Riley that motivation is crucial to long term adherence AND satisfaction, and for most, that motivation cannot be weight loss for appearance.

I'm thinking, though, that there is a small percentage of people for whom vanity loss actually DOES work, just as there are people who quite peacefully eliminate foods or have no big issue with counting calories. They are muddying the issue for the rest of us!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like to give much attention to body measurements, but I did go for a bodyfat analysis yesterday. The fat and muscle ratios in my arms and legs changed from last year, with fat gaining ground, even though my weight isn't that different. However, my distribution is considered quite healthy, and I even gained some muscle in my torso through no effort of mine. I admit I am in denial about needing more consistent exercise. I definitely could make time for it, but I don't- so far. Perhaps dwelling on these changes, without drama, may help me turn the corner. The problem is that I actually don't feel as terrible when I don't exercise as I used to when I was eating compulsively. Not wanting to feel so yucky was a big incentive for my getting a handle on my eating. With exercise, though I know I will feel somewhat better, most of my motivation will need to be mental. I doubt I'll be able to feel any incremental increases in muscle in my arms and legs. I didn't feel the losses!

I can't really see consistently eating much less than I do now, so I can't expect much fat loss. But I could build muscle, and there is real advantage for that at any age, but especially in my senior years.
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noni



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala said,
"Noni, I meant to add that the cycling you mentioned from WW seems to parallel No S and S days, don't you think?"

Yes, I always thought so. But if one is an idiot on S-days...lol
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, being an idiot on the WW carb cycling wouldn't be sanctioned, though calorie theory says that if you wanted to eat 500 calories one day so you could have 2,500 the next, and have them average out to 1,500, it would work. But I tell ya, eating 2,500 calories in a day sounds awful to me now.

I've been experimenting with eating quite lightly on some days and I'm finding something interesting. The next day after the first meal of the day, I feel fantastic. This will usually be after a very early dinner, too, so there has been a longer overnight fast. This is not canonical No S at all, I know. But I really like that feeling. I'm also starting to like the feeling on the light day because I'm not actually hungry later, and it finally feels good not to eat more out of habit. I used to feel resentful because I wouldn't be hungry but would still want to eat, so I'd feel torn. Now I'm not so bothered by the desire, and get a bit of a kick out of choosing not to eat much. I didn't even feel that hungry for breakfast, but ate it anyway, and did feel modest hunger for lunch and dinner, which was great.

Going to a St. Patrick's Day party tomorrow. Starting early! Always way too much food there. I think I brought flowers last year and will again.

I wonder what it would be like to leave not feeling really full. Can't say I'm curious enough to find out.
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Elizabeth50



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
I've been experimenting with eating quite lightly on some days.


I'm going to start practicing this, as well.

I love all the tips from you and others. I hope to follow in the footsteps of those of you who have done this successfully over a long period of time!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope so, too, E50!

Now don't get triggered by this entry.

I have been coming to the conclusion that there is substantial advantage to eating a LOT less food, as long as most of it is very high quality. I think it would still be an advantage even if the body did not lose weight. The loss make s it seem that it's the loss that is the advantage, but I suspect it's not. It's the actual decrease in the processing of food. So thin people who eat a lot might actually be at a disadvantage because their bodies are revving all the time. We are led to believe that being able to burn up a lot of fuel is a good thing. Maybe not. We know underweight people have the same morbidity as the morbid obese and many of them can burn a tremendous number of calories. I wonder if anyone has ever broken down thin groups by their calorie intake and compared the results.

This doesn't mean it's easy to pull off, and may not be worth the trouble for most. Certainly if my hunger was as robust as it was a few years ago, I wouldn't even have considered it.

I don't want to go to work.
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Elizabeth50



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, that would be an interesting study.

Like you, I also have a robust hunger and not sure how much I can cut back for now. I am definitely going to do some trimming back, though. I'm going to make small changes at a time. I know myself, and I will start feeling deprived if I try to cut back too much at once. I do look forward to eating a little healthier for now.

I hope you have a great day at work. Just keep smiling and make them wonder what you're up to!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I HAD robust hunger for a few years, but it ebbed and I have been feeling annoyed at the edges for a couple of years.

I am now doing some rather non No S stuff, and it feels at least temporarily like I've slipped into a higher gear. I have no idea if the other shoe will drop, but this feels the best I've felt in a long time. I hope to hell it's not my metabolism winding down. But it feels like the opposite, like things are humming, and even though I'm not completely forgetting about food, I feel almost as if I'm on an appetite depressant. Could my body be in ketosis while I'm still eating carbs? The feeling is good enough that it is becoming easier to keep the protocol because I'm anticipating the reward. I wouldn't say it's as easy as Vanilla used to be, but I feel even better, which I wasn't anticipating. It feels very similar to the old honeymoon stage of a diet used to feel, except I've been experimenting without the honeymoon for over a year. Yet I can't call it a marriage yet. I'll just enjoy it while it lasts.
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Elizabeth50



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, whatever it is you're going through sounds wonderful, Oolala! I hope your body keeps the suppressed appetite. Please update us as things go along! I'm very happy for you! Smile
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noni



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala, is this cycling regime from Jason Fung? I recently viewed something recently online from him, and it sounded something like what your doing. It was for brain power. At least I think it was him.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The regime I've been "regular" with- 3 cycles in a year- is based on the protocol of Valter Longo. I almost feel funny talking about it here because it's so not No S. It's short term, only 5 days at a time and rather extreme. though with my appetite, it's not that hard from a food intake stance. It's just how to fill the time, but that's often my problem anyway. I don't feel weak at all. I wish it would make me want to sleep more, but it doesn't.

But the euphoric feelings have receded. Oh, well. I'm still fine. I eat a bit of a weird diet compared to the average bear, but it's just convenient. Lot of cooking simply in batches and then assembling at meal time.

Did I say I've put a temporary moratorium on buying protein or starches until I use up most of what's in the larder? Just freggies and coffee fixin's. I've been wanting to experiment with eating even less meat. It will be close to Blue Zone eating with a little protein powder thrown, just because I have it around and it's taking up space, in for awhile. I've wanted to see if I'm as satisfied when eating a higher ratio of carbs, though I'm going to adjust the fat slightly upwards, too.

This really doesn't sound like No S. But I just don't eat standard fare anyway or cook much out of standard cookbooks. It's probably all in my head and I'd do fine with grandma fare, but it wouldn't be any less trouble than what I do make now.

Oh, I did soak two different grains for 48 hours. It's supposed to be like a sourdough bread version, to break down some of the supposedly troublesome stuff in the grain. I really like how they turned out. A nice tang! It takes some forethought but other than that, is pretty similar to cook after the soaking except that it takes even less time. I've got days and days worth in the freezer, and still have uncooked grain. You'd think I live on a remote farm and can't get in to town often for supplies, so I had to stock up. But sometimes it's because there are bargains, and I like to think it's part of the reason I can afford a mortgage.
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Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some thoughts on sweeteners in response to a question on another thread . Copied here.

I doubt many people could feel the harmful effects of artificial sweeteners until it was too late. That's the nature of degenerative disease.

Unless you count still feeling caught by sweets. I still feel attracted to them, still sometimes eat more of them than I intend, still have some fond memories of the pleasure of eating A LOT of ice cream or A LOT of Costco chocolate cake with frosting--and still feel that is worth it to put up with it. I know on Spark, a small number of low carbers or people who have completely given up sweeteners of any kind say they don't crave or miss sweets at all.

It's a funny thing. Sometimes, I'll be in a supermarket and will pass by a kryptonite food. I can't say I feel no desire for it, but even as I look at it and feel a little thrill of desire, effortlessly remembering pleasure, it is as if there is an invisible force field, and a vague sense that if I reach for it, I'll get a shock, even though that has never happened. But in the past, I've been in that situation, and also remembered how it was going to lead to the struggle again later; that I would have to go through withdrawal again, so to speak. I think that pairing cancelled out the pleasure memory enough and not choosing the food has become the default.

But I try not to test it much by reaching for the food in that situation. It's a useful delusion!

Maybe I like craving them.

Maybe it's like an unbitter divorce. You know there were good times, and you might even cherish them, but you also know there were other things that just would never work out. You're civil and maybe even friendly at specific events, but beyond that, you keep your distance. (I'm going to double post this on my thread.)
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Larkspur



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
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Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala53, I'm interested in your fasting mimicking protocol. Is there a website? I have been a bit worried about protein intake for a while-- I do use a little whey powder in the morning, about half a serving, because I like what it does for my hair and nails, but I'm not convinced it's the best choice. I still get very hungry, alas. I'm hoping in the summer when I have more time (I work in a school, as well) I will be able to move around more and space my meals more naturally, instead of 7, 12, and 7, which has not been easy and I think I tend to eat too much at meals because of it.
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