Death of a Fad Diet??

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

Moderators: Soprano, automatedeating

Post Reply
User avatar
Prodigalsun
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:14 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Death of a Fad Diet??

Post by Prodigalsun » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:06 pm

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industrie ... kins_x.htm

Looks like Atkins may have run its course.
--

Starting Weight: 275
Current: 269
Goal: 190


"I shovel well, I shovel very very well."

Prodigalsun

Samurai
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 2:14 am

Faux-foods

Post by Samurai » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:29 pm

I think the company erred in focusing so much of its resources on the creation and productin of faux-foods. The low-carb diet can be successful and healthy, but without all the fake, processed low-carb chips, muffins, cookies, etc. A cookie is still a cookie by any other name. :lol:
One should not be envious of someone who has prospered by unjust deeds. Nor should he disdain someone who has fallen while adhering to the path of righteousness. - Imagawa Sadayo (1325-1420)

User avatar
reinhard
Site Admin
Posts: 5918
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:38 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA
Contact:

Post by reinhard » Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:14 pm

Good timing for me... hoping to have my book proposal out this month!

I don't think the biggest problems with Atkins were the crass commercialism or the extremism (though these were problems). I think the biggest problem with Atkins and just about every other diet out there is that they treat diet as a biochemical problem rather than a behavioral one. The biochemical picture may be true, in some sense, but it isn't useful. Most of us know, more or less, what we should eat to be healthy and lean. We just don't know how to make ourselves do it.

User avatar
Prodigalsun
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:14 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by Prodigalsun » Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:47 pm

I think Atkins actually worked because it used principles discovered by Natural Hygeine, that holds that food combining makes for more efficient digestion. NH says not to mix high density carbs and protein, so a protein and veggie diet will be very efficient and cause you to loose weight.

Problem is, it is hard to eat that way.

I tried atkins, I bought their recommended 30 day suplement supply...40 bucks.

My folks did atkins and swear by it, but I think it's bunk. Eating all that fat can't be good for you.
--

Starting Weight: 275
Current: 269
Goal: 190


"I shovel well, I shovel very very well."

Prodigalsun

User avatar
gratefuldeb67
Posts: 6256
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Great Neck, NY

Post by gratefuldeb67 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:53 pm

Yay Reinhard!!!!! We are all rooting for you on that proposal!!!!
Love,
8) Deb

I saw some guy sitting miserably at the food counter today at the gym... He was saying how he is dying for a nice slice of pizza, but it's not allowed on his diet...
I just thought to myself.... "Wonder how long that diet will take to self destruct! Poor guy... LOL.."

User avatar
doulachic
Posts: 435
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:02 pm
Location: Idaho

Post by doulachic » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:49 pm

Deb, maybe you should have pitched No-S to him!! :D

Yeah, i did Atkins for awhile and lost weight too, but i couldn't stick to it. It just proved to me that our bodies are meant to have a more balanced, wide variety, diet. I love meat, but after two weeks of atkins i was ready to scream! (yes, i had my veggies too, but i like all of it together between two big ol' slices of full carb bread!! :twisted: )
***GRINS***
Tricia

"When you are in a jam, a good friend will bring a loaf of bread and peanut butter..."

User avatar
snazzybabe
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:44 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post by snazzybabe » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:46 am

I don't think people know what to eat to be healthy and lean. What is a balanced diet anyway - I don't think its the food pyramid.
Its definitely not low fat, see this site: http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/index.html

A Comment that interested me from another site:
"The Food Pyramid was in fact developed by the US Department of Agriculture - yes thats right agriculture, and you might wonder what they know about what is good for the health and well being of humans, and the answer ... is not much!

They do know a bit about how to fatten livestock quickly - and funnily enough they seem to think a very similar macronutrient ratio will help humans lose weight!

Basically the pyramid gets revised from time to time (it has been recently although you would be hard pressed to notice the difference) - and it is the industry bodies with the most clout that get to see their product listed favourably on the pyramid - hence the amount of grain, sugar, corn etc. it is apparently healthy to eat. And as it is the Agriculture Department's job to help their primary producers sell as much crap as possible - they don't see this as a conflict of interest (after all human health is not their job, and if it were, that nice group from the Grain Growers lobby says grain is good for you, right?)"

With Atkins people eliminate all the refined, processed products that are not required in your diet. Why is that bad? If you want bread have whole-grain. A lot of us don't realise that foods that we think are healthy are actually doing us a lot of harm.

Its good that we are learning not to snack and control our eating but we also need to think about the foods that we eat.

By the way, low-carb (Atkins) is not a fad diet: http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/banting.html

User avatar
reinhard
Site Admin
Posts: 5918
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:38 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA
Contact:

Post by reinhard » Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:57 pm

Hi Snazzy,

I don't disagree that it's probably better to minimize the amount of highly processed food we eat, but I don't think that's the chief issue from a weight management perspective -- I think it obscures the chief issue. All of the ideal thin cultures pointed out in the diet literature get most of their calories from highly refined carbohydrates (France, Japan, etc). Given that, it seems hard for me to believe that carbs, refined or not, are the problem. I'm not saying fat is the problem either. Too much food and too little exercise are the problem. The solution isn't knowing this, or anything else, the solution is changing your behavior.

Reinhard

User avatar
Prodigalsun
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:14 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Post by Prodigalsun » Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:07 pm

I've heard about Weston Price, isn't he the guy that studied the diets of aboriginal men back around the turn of the century to come up with the ideal diet?

I have to disagree in some respects, atkins is a fad, even if it regurgitates someone elses work. I know you can loose weight on it, but I think glutonous consumption of fats (or any single foodstuffs) is a bad thing. Encouraging people to consume huge amounts of protein puts strain on the kidneys, according to many in the medical profession. There are many good elements of the diet that are not fad, and make sense, but the fad parts I'm really refering too are the shameless profiteering by the Atkins foundation and Atkins Nutritionals. I think it has run its course. If I were to buy all the Atkins brand products that Atkins recommends, I'd increase my monthly grocery bill by 300 dollars.

I agree that eliminating processed foods is bad as well, and I make an effort to eat whole grains. A great book for recipes on this is Feeding the Whole Family.
--

Starting Weight: 275
Current: 269
Goal: 190


"I shovel well, I shovel very very well."

Prodigalsun

User avatar
navin
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:23 pm
Location: Kentucky

Post by navin » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:52 pm

And just my two cents on what "balanced" means... it seems that time has found that eating a wide variety of foods (especially fruits and veggies) is pretty good for you. I don't think there are any foods that are intrinsically bad (except ones that contain poison such as arsenic sandwiches with asbestos sauce), and most have a lot of good qualities. You can't just eat one class of food and expect to be healty. That's another reason Asian, French, etc. diets appear to be healty - they use a lot of different ingredients in their dishes. For instance.. you don't just have fried chicken in a Chinese restaurant - you get stir-fried with 7 different vegetables.

So while I certainly agree that the *overuse* of highly processed foods can be bad, certainly some white rice to go with your stir-fry is not going to kill you.

Kevin
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Atkins and refined flour

Post by Kevin » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:04 pm

While Atkins eliminated the refined, processed grains from people's diet, it introduced tons of refined, processed meat. Bacon, processed lunch meat, even pork rinds (puffed and fried in who knows what) were eaten by Atkins advocates in disproportionate quantities.

My guess is that white bread is better for you than smoked meat.

That said, I still love bacon, especially with peanut butter on white bread toast... ummm.

Eating the right amount of a wide variety of things is probably the healthiest diet, and the best one for weight loss.

And lose the trans fat completely.
Kevin
1/13/2011-189# :: 4/21/2011-177# :: Goal-165#
"Respecting the 4th S: sometimes."

User avatar
doulachic
Posts: 435
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:02 pm
Location: Idaho

Post by doulachic » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:24 pm

With respect to Dr. Atkins himself, i think his original diet (as read in his book) is not totally off the mark. He has different stages of when to eat what (like the starting two week "induction" period). but basically you start out with your meats and a lot of veggies per day, then after the first two weeks you add other low glycemic carbs (like brown rice, etc.) I think the man had good intentions.

however, that said...the problem is that (1) the company saw a chance for a major marketing sell when they saw how popular low-carb had become...it is thier right to try to make money i guess (of course, Dr. A has passed on quite some time ago and is probably turning over in his grave about what has been done to his company!) (2) there are many people out there who DON'T do low-carb correctly! they eat tons of meat and butter, and no veggies or carbs because they "think" that is how it is done. they need to read the book and learn to do it correctly. i think that is part of what has given it a bad name. plus they are eating the processed Atkins brand, simulated carb foods instead of the natural foods that he meant for them to eat.

All in all, i am not a fan of this diet. I think it is a fad, and that it is not something that you can OR should do long term. And by balanced diet, i mean that your choices should not lean one way or the other. your plate should consist of protien, carbs, and definately, fruits and veggies. I don't believe in low fat (except for cutting the fattening cookies, candy, etc) because personally i don't eat enough fat to worry about. i don't think butter on my toast once a day will make me gain 20 pounds or something. i think a moderate amount of fat in a diet is healthy.

the main problem is (at the risk of being redundant) OVEREATING!! No matter what diet you choose, if you eat too much of anything not only are you going to gain weight, but you aren't learning the proper amounts of food that your body needs at a given time. even carrots can be fattening if you scarf too many of them...

didn't mean to go on, but felt i should explain that while i don't agree with atkins, i DO believe the rules of the diet itself have been grossly misunderstood..

Peace... :wink:
***GRINS***
Tricia

"When you are in a jam, a good friend will bring a loaf of bread and peanut butter..."

User avatar
gratefuldeb67
Posts: 6256
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Great Neck, NY

Post by gratefuldeb67 » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:13 pm

Sounds of funeral processions for the Death of a Fad Diet....
How about Beethovens "Eroica",,, Second movement..
:wink:
Love,
Deb

User avatar
gratefuldeb67
Posts: 6256
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Great Neck, NY

Post by gratefuldeb67 » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:16 pm

I'll be checking my sandwiches a little more closely now Nathan!!! :lol:
Love,
8) Deb

User avatar
snazzybabe
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:44 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post by snazzybabe » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:16 pm

navin wrote:And just my two cents on what "balanced" means... it seems that time has found that eating a wide variety of foods (especially fruits and veggies) is pretty good for you. I don't think there are any foods that are intrinsically bad (except ones that contain poison such as arsenic sandwiches with asbestos sauce), and most have a lot of good qualities. You can't just eat one class of food and expect to be healty. That's another reason Asian, French, etc. diets appear to be healty - they use a lot of different ingredients in their dishes. For instance.. you don't just have fried chicken in a Chinese restaurant - you get stir-fried with 7 different vegetables.

So while I certainly agree that the *overuse* of highly processed foods can be bad, certainly some white rice to go with your stir-fry is not going to kill you.
Arsenic sandwiches with asbestos sauce - very funny but a bid rude.
I was just putting MY opinion across. If you want to think white bread is good for you then so be it.
You don't eat just one class of food. Check your facts first before you comment. Low-carb is meat, fats, wholegrains, FRUIT AND VEGETABLES minus a few starchy ones.
No white rice isn't going to kill you but if you are headed down the path of diabetes (which we all could easily be headed with over-consumption of high-carbs) then maybe cutting back is not such a bad idea.

I joined this site because I was snacking a lot and used food as an emotional crutch. I like the concept because it stops me snacking. Its just worrisome to me to read what people are eating. Yes no sweets, no snacks or no seconds but quality too.

User avatar
gratefuldeb67
Posts: 6256
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Great Neck, NY

Post by gratefuldeb67 » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:48 pm

Live and let live, and leave my little Navin alone!
I think it's "worrisome", Snazzy, how you are trying to tell people what they should eat....

Waiter...Check please!!!!!!!

Hi Nathan!!!!!!
Love,
Deb

User avatar
navin
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:23 pm
Location: Kentucky

Post by navin » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:34 am

Didn't mean any offense to anybody. IT does seem though like low-carb will be a "niche" diet - helpful for those who have diabetes and the like, and if it works for you or anybody else, then great. But it's probably not practical or beneficial for your average, everyday, run-of-the-mill jerk like Navin R. Johnson.

User avatar
navin
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:23 pm
Location: Kentucky

Post by navin » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:38 am

Also, while I realize not everyone here is from America, the American Diabetes Association has some good info on the subject, including myths about diabetes:

Diabetes Myths

It seems that being obese is much, much more of a risk than eating too much sugar or carbohydrates.

User avatar
gratefuldeb67
Posts: 6256
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Great Neck, NY

Post by gratefuldeb67 » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:45 am

I love Jerks!!!!!
(It's true... Just talk to some of my ex boyfriends!)
Hugs Navin!
I think you are a very funny, intelligent, well spoken, thoughtful and diplomatic guy!
Navin for president!

:wink: Deb...

User avatar
navin
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:23 pm
Location: Kentucky

Post by navin » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:56 am

Heh, and as for "arsenic sandwiches", I was going for the Grinch song reference but totally messed it up. It should have been arsenic sauce...

You're a three decker sauerkraut and toadstool sandwich, with arsenic sauce!

[/i]

User avatar
gratefuldeb67
Posts: 6256
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Great Neck, NY

Post by gratefuldeb67 » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:00 am

That's a great song!!!!!!
"You're a mean one, Mister Grinch...."
See you later Nathonator....
:D Deb

User avatar
doulachic
Posts: 435
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:02 pm
Location: Idaho

Post by doulachic » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:27 am

Navin, I love The Jerk and The Grinch....hhhmmm....maybe i need to update my "friends" list! :lol:
***GRINS***
Tricia

"When you are in a jam, a good friend will bring a loaf of bread and peanut butter..."

User avatar
snazzybabe
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:44 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post by snazzybabe » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:48 am

Yeh, fair enough. Everyone can eat what they want. No point having a reasonable discussion.

User avatar
peetie
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:18 pm

Post by peetie » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:24 am

I guess a reasonable conversation means agreeing with you.

User avatar
JWL
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Post by JWL » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:58 am

snazzybabe wrote:Yeh, fair enough. Everyone can eat what they want. No point having a reasonable discussion.
Well, what do you mean by "reasonable discussion"? Comments like the above don't seem terribly reasonable to me.

As if free will and reason are mutually exclusive....
JWL[.|@]Freakwitch[.]net

User avatar
Justin
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:51 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA

Post by Justin » Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:01 am

Everyone, take a breather on this topic. Relax just a bit. We're here to share experiences, frustrations, ideas, etc. As a moderator, I'll lock this thread if it isn't toned-down just a bit.

Also, take a moment to remember it's another person on the other end of the bulletin board. Feelings can be hurt and people can be offended because the internet isn't always the best medium for communication. So, take a moment to review your post if you're feeling angry or upset.

Thank you,

Justin

User avatar
snazzybabe
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:44 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post by snazzybabe » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:58 am

A reasonable conversation does not mean agreeing with me. I was not rude. The comment about the arsenic sandwiches angered me so I mentioned it. But I misinterpreted it as it had something to do with a song? Deb then started being nasty and I bit back.

Everyone else put their point across why couldn't I?

User avatar
gratefuldeb67
Posts: 6256
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Great Neck, NY

Post by gratefuldeb67 » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:32 pm

Hey Justin! Thanks for stepping in! Wise words from a wise moderator...
You won't hear boo on this anymore from me.... It's bad energy and my goal isn't to hurt peoples feelings.
Love,
Deb
Since you are a farmer now, I'm imagining you running out with a pitchfork saying "You kids get off my land!!!"
That would keep people in line... :wink:

Kevin
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Interesting stuff

Post by Kevin » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:34 pm

I read some of the information on the site you posted and found it interesting. I wish there had been more there about some of the counter claims they made about the studies they refute. One of the things that always seems to be missing in all these discussions is how old age skews the studies: in a population that lives to an average of 45 years of age, I would expect to find much less heart disease, regardless of diet.

I think, though, the diet the authors seems to hold up as exemplary is much more in line with No-S than it is with Atkins. So we're probably all in violent agreement.

I also think that the beating on refined white flour, white rice, etc. as being a cause for diabetes is overblown (and I am an insulin-dependent diabetic, as is my 11 year old boy). Obesity and a sedentary lifestyle are the primary causes of Type II diabetes. A rampant immune response is the primary cause of Type I diabetes.

I suspect the reason that Diabetes is becoming more common is because many more diabetics live to pass it on. My life being a case in point. :0)
Kevin
1/13/2011-189# :: 4/21/2011-177# :: Goal-165#
"Respecting the 4th S: sometimes."

User avatar
Prodigalsun
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:14 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Fad Diets

Post by Prodigalsun » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:12 pm

Atkins folks bristle when their diet is refered to as a "Fad." While there might be sound principles in the diet itself, and may even be based on older observations like Weston Price, it's phenomenon in our american culture has been very fadlike, like pet rocks or polo shirts with turned up collars. And like a fad, it waxes and wanes. A year ago, 9% of americans said they were on a low carb diet (Atkins, Zone, South Beach). Today it is 2.2%.

Sure, there's a problem in what we eat. But there is even a bigger problem in how much we consume. Diets that restrict entire classes of foods, but then don't deal with the overeating itself are only dealing with part of the problem. Same with No S. It restricts portions, but doesn't make any claims about nutrition. But I do believe you tend to make better choices when not ruled by your cravings, which NoS is helping me to whip.
--

Starting Weight: 275
Current: 269
Goal: 190


"I shovel well, I shovel very very well."

Prodigalsun

Post Reply