Hey Reinhard, about planning traded S days...

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:53 pm

I was wondering about this, sort of in the back of my mind, for a long time now...
I would appreciate your input my dear leader!

I don't want to mess around with this wonderful system too much, because, even though we all know it is helpful to streamline or tailor NOS to our individual needs, as regards health issues, or cultural stuff, like observing the Sabbath, or just nutritional stuff (like doing a more low carb or vegetarian version, etc...) frankly, I really see, over the long term now, how important it is to keep the basic framework strong and intact.
But as regarding S days which are during the week, like the ones you had last week, and like the one I had yesterday... If we know and plan this ahead of time, and it's not just a "blunder day", okay it's really an S day;
Should we then shave off one of our weekend days?
I feel like maybe I should do this, but then again, I am sad to say, I don't really always trust that I know best for myself as regarding "psychological mind games"....
Without being too finagely with the rules, what's your take on this?
For me, personally, I usually go out once a week, but it's not always on the weekend... I prefer to have an S day for socializing, not just because I have an innate need to eat cheesecake on Saturdays... (hmm did that make any sense? Duh! LOL...)
I believe that my perception of how I apply the rules, is just as important as how I implement them... If I go for even a few months thinking, in the back of my subconscious, that, I am somehow fudging around, I won't feel as good about being disciplined overall...
I guess, your post about S days on N days, last night brought that concern I had floating around in my head, to the forefront...
I eagerly await your "Final Word"...
I need someone like you to put some Fence Laws around my boundary challenged brain! I always did best with teachers who were the strictest and most clear... Left to my own devices, I usually vacillate a lot...
Thank you Rein, and have a great weekend with your clan!

Love,

Deb

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:43 pm

I'm glad you asked about this, Deb, because I'm planning to do this next week. I need for next Friday to be an S-Day, so I am planning ahead...will make this Sunday a No-S instead. I'm eager to read Reinhard's response to your question.

carolejo · Post by **carolejo** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:04 pm

Personally, I'm not going to 'trade' days. I don't think that would work best for me (psychologically) as in the end I might end up resenting the fact that I had an S day on Tuesday therefore I can't eat a small slice of cake on Sunday when my friends come round to visit (for example). I think it'll depend on the person though - ultimately it's Reinhard's system so his is the best input. Far be it for me to second-guess him or anything, but I think he'll say that you don't have to trade S days or anything like that, because if you're having an extra S day every week then you've obviously got the wrong idea of when to take the extra days - if you don't have an extra S day any more than once or twice a month, then in the macro-scale of things it's not going to cause any problems. if, however, you've had a lot of S days in a short space of time (it happens sometimes) then you might not WANT to eat any ess's, just because you *could* eat them on Saturday or Sunday! I never thought it would be possible and that I would want to turn down that slice of yummy chocolate cake, even when it was 'allowed', but it's happened already at least twice since I've been doing No S and my sugar-junkie head has cooled off.

If I'm having additional S days, I'm just going to put that down to 'yeah, I deserve a treat today cos it's really a special day' and not 'punish' myself at the end of the week for the fact it was my birthday / anniversary or somesuch. Provided I keep honest with myself and everyone else about why I'm taking an extra S day, then I think for me that will be a job well done.

I think it's up to you, but personally... well, I made my choice clear.

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:11 pm

This is a great question. But from the NoS website:

Can I take my Sunday Thursday? (etc.).

Not officially.

Pragmatically speaking, however, I sometimes find it useful to swap days. The way I see it, if I end up breaking No-S during the week, I have 2 options: just move on without trying to compensate for it at all, or swap one of my weekend S days, hoping that my total weekly caloric intake will balance out in the end.

I suppose my position is this: I don't mind swapping occasionally, even if it violates the letter of the law. However, I would caution against making this a habit. If I find myself needing to swap more than very occasionally, then something needs to be re-adjusted.

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:31 pm

Thanks Freakwitch... I'm totally aware of that quote from the homepage already, but still, the "Not officially" answer isn't helping me right now, since my reality is such that this year the bulk of my socializing has been either on a Wed or Thursday because of my music jams..
Carolejo, I agree with the "not resenting part"... This is starting to happen for me on a subtle level... I don't feel as great about how I've been handling that basic framework...
Jan, you just "Go girl!!!"
There is a reason for why you aren't overweight like many of us "Adipose challenged" individuals here.... You really are driven to stick to your guns..
I sooooo admire that! Thin people aren't thin by accident or genetic reasons... Especially once they are full grown adults... You are very inspiring in your positive and proactive lifestyle lady!

So Reinhard, please chime in if you have a chance today... I know you are an avid ludditer, so see if you can let us in before the bell tolls midnight!
And heck, if the answer is "not officially" well, I guess I'll have to figure it out myself and see what does best for me.. I know I need some flexibility here, but I don't want flexibility to be a "guise" for being vague with my mind!
Love,

Deb

carolejo · Post by **carolejo** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:47 pm

On swapping days cos I messed up - that's not something I'd personally EVER do, cos for me one of the most powerful things about it all is that I only get one chance to make each day a success. If I fail, I failed that day. I can't take it back by then not taking an S day on Saturday (for example). I failed. People do fail. That's OK. I'm allowed to mess up sometimes, I'm only human. Get back on the horse, have another shot at it. Give it your best effort each and every day, one day at a time. Today is all that matters, yesterday is irrelevant now, tomorrow - well, let's worry about that when we get there, shall we?

I've got the rest of my life to get this right overall, but only 1 day to get it right today. Each day counts, but on the macro-level an occasional stuff-up doesn't matter all that much. By doing anything at all, I'm already doing so much better than before!

navin · Post by **navin** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:11 pm

Deb-

Well, I'm no Reinhard, but I also have some experience in swapping S-days. I've found for me, there is one (and only one!) way to make it actually work. If I know of a day during the week I want to make an S, but don't want to justify taking a whole other S day for it, (say, a potluck at work or something,) I will make sure I make a regular S-day an N-day beforehand. For instance, if the potluck is next Thursday, I'll take either this Saturday or Sunday and make it the N-day. That way it becomes a delayed gratification thing - the new N-day is reasonable becuase I can look forward to the reward of having an S day later on in the week.

Conversly, if I were to make the Thursday an S-day and then take the next Saturday and make it an N-day, then it would feel more like a punishment than a reward, and I'm also more likely to give in and have S-es on my Saturday as well.

I hope some of that makes sense.

I definitely agree with the others who say this should NOT be made into a habit, done only when it's really necessary.
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Blondie · Post by **Blondie** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:42 pm

Yabbut, I think Madame Deb's whole point is that, for her, the useful habit to form would be to have at least one of her S days be during the week because of her schedule--not that she wants to continually and haphazardly buck the S day habit in general.

I understand this, I think. In another life, when I earned my living behind a bar (as opposed to as a member of a bar), I always worked weekends and my days off were typically Monday and Tuesday. All the people I socialized with worked on weekends, etc. So, it would have made sense for my S days, my weekends to be on Mondays and Tuesdays. I think the utility of the habit would be preserved. Deb's schedule, it seems, has to do with live music that happens during the week--her social scene happens then (like many bar and restaurant people who avoid the weekend warriors).

Deb, am I understanding you?

Post by **reinhard** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:52 pm

Swapping is usually more dangerous than it's worth. I wrote "not officially" instead of "No" because I understand that there are times when it makes sense. What might such times be?

1) when there are a whole lot of legitimate and mandatory non-weekend S-days all at once. Example: fathers day, my mother's birthday, and my wife's birthday tend to fall within the same week. I don't even want any S by the end of it.

Hmmm. I wrote "1" but can't think of anything else. If it's a genuinely special day, then take an S day. No need to trade.

As carolejo mentioned above, I think it's a terrible idea to trade days after the fact, as revenge for a failure. That just gives you license to fail again. Habit is more important that a few extra calories. By trading, you trade habit for calories. It's a bad trade.

It sounds like you might want to permanently trade Wednesday for a weekend S day... you can do that (especially if you work weekends), but again, be careful. My guess is that the weekend S day you traded for will never quite seem like an N day... I know it sounds ruthless and probably not what you want to hear, but I think your best bet would be to think about the precise situations on wednesdays that cause problems and specifically how you can respond to them. Post details here, we'll be glad to help.

The day I had last week was a vacation day, so it wasn't quite a blunder, and in any case I didn't make up for it by trading a weekend day.

Hope something here helps... push back if it doesn't.

Reinhard

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:22 pm

Yeah, I think I'm just going to trade Sunday for Wed...
I'll tell you the truth, I know you said the S days on the weekend won't really end up being like an N day, and that it's tricky, but for me personally, I don't feel the need to have two consecutive S days... One on the weekend would work out fine for me...
I don't make up for "messups" during the week by shaving off an S day in revenge... I don't believe in that at all..
Blondie, yes you got my general drift....
Navin, I really like your idea... I don't always go out to music, just two or three times a month... When I know I will be doing it, I will make the previous Sunday and N day, to "bank on it" ahead of time!
It made total sense how you wrote it.. And it still keeps the "Earn our Ss" ethos in tact...
Thanks Reinhard for your stand on this and getting back to me!
You are the nicest ruthless leader I know!!!! LOL!

The precise problems for that Wednesday night jam are basically, wanting to have an occasional drink or soft drink.. I might even be able to count Wed as an N day, but I don't really wish to be ultra strict on those occasions when I'm at a bar or restaurant... I don't go seven days a week... Well, it's gonna work out...
Thanks guys for batting this around!!! It's really nice to have friends..
Peace and Love,
Deb...

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:41 pm

This was an interesting discussion! What's up with me this coming week is that on Friday, we take the teens from the church to Valley Fair, which is the local MN version of Six Flags. We leave very early, because it's a long trip, then we are there until 9 pm closing, and then the trip home. Food is not great there and very expensive. Trying to bring food into that place is not worth the effort (says one who knows). So I think I'm going to just piece it out throughout the day with what I bring in the van and what I buy there. But, since this is planned ahead of time, I am going to prepare ahead of time by making this Sunday a No-S day. Does that make sense? I don't do much for S days anyway, so I don't think this will be a problem.

I really enjoyed (and will continue to enjoy) this thread, though.

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:51 am

I've been thinking more about this thread today.

To me, there is a relationship between the idea of trading days, and what is perhaps the most important word of the 14: sometimes. This word means that S days are not necessarily any different from N days, it's just that they can be. Some S days are supposed to be indistinguishable from N days, or the word "sometimes" wouldn't be necessary.

So, if I've had some funny stuff during the week, rather than say "that was an S day" I'll just rein in my indulgences on the S days the following weekend.

Put another way, the flexibility of No-S comes in the nature of an "S day" rather than in swapping days.

I think I'm going to try thinking this way for a while, rather than in terms of swapping days, to see what happens.

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:17 pm

Reinhard, I am just sticking with your plan as originally intended....

Check out Jammin Jan's Thread for details from todays posts....
Love,

Overly Cerebral Deb

Post by **reinhard** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:55 pm

Freakwitch, you're absolutely right. If you're having trouble making it through the week, the last thing you want to do is give yourself an extra opportunity for failure on the weekend. By keeping it officially S, you can't fail, you can just be extra virtuous.

I'll check it out, Deb.

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:11 pm

We all love Reinhard!!!
NoS Hugs!

Deb

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:27 pm

Well, Jammin' Jan didn't succeed at swapping Sunday for Friday, but I posted my thoughts about that on my daily check-in. It will all work out for Friday, I think. The moral of my story is:

LET NO-S DAYS BE NO-S DAYS AND LET S-DAYS BE S-DAYS.