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Octavia is finally checking in!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Octavia is finally checking in! Reply with quote

It's taken me a long time to decide to do a check-in. I already spend a bit too long journaling, so I always feared a check-in could lead to yet more introspection! But here I am. Maybe it will be fun. Helpful, indeed!

So...today was an N day, and I complied, with little effort. That's because my head is in the right place (it doesn't take much to knock it off centre, so all I can do is be grateful for one day of clarity). I ate:
My usual breakfast - a fried egg and tomato on wholemeal toast, plus coffee.

I had orange juice and more coffee to tide me over till lunch.

Lunch was a sandwich, eaten in two instalments, as work intervened. It felt a bit like having two lunches, but I'm counting it as a win.

Dinner was a somewhat minimal prawn stir fry. Somehow, I served all the noodles to husband and daughter, so it felt a bit on the small side....so I had an apple, banana and a few hazelnuts afterwards.

Then went for a rather cold and lonely walk, having had no exercise all day.

I felt a gnawing hunger at around 9pm, so I had a hot chocolate.
Ta-da, I managed a proper N day!

Hoping the calm clarity lasts. My attitude now is different from before. I think I've realised that I want to improve my diet whether I achieve weight loss or not. In fact, expecting weight loss is for me a bit like expecting a unicorn, and I can't attach my eating efforts to this elusive goal. Each disappointment leads to disillusionment with healthy eating. That's bad. So I am doing No S because it will simply improve my diet, help me enjoy my meals more, help me enjoy treats in proper amounts without guilt, encourage me to get more fluids, and teach me to dismiss urges to snack on unhealthy treats: useful willpower training.

Have I given up on vanity? Hell, no! I just realise that for me, weight loss may not be the key to feeling attractive: energy is actually more important. Without energy, I can't be bothered to do my hair, look after my skin, throw together a stylish outfit. Going down a dress size will hardly help. If I lose weight through No S, that's great, but my challenge is actually to look after myself better right now, at the size I am. I can't do any of this unless I'm properly fed.

See, I told you I write too much....😊 I have so much more to say, but I must be strict and not go on and on. It's bed time here, so I'll say night night.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't work out how to use HabitCal. Does it work for iPad? Can't find the SHOW button that Reinhard mentions....can someone talk me through it? Sorry if I am missing something very obvious! 🙄😊
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Low mood today after an almost sleepless night. Couldn't drag myself out of bed. Not a good start! I must try going without coffee. Also, went out for a run, but it was so icy underfoot that I opted to walk. Was overtaken by many fearless runners and cyclists - how they were ignoring the black ice everywhere, I don't know! Felt inadequate.

Now, at half past three, I feel an urge for a snack to lift my morale. But I'll continue to drink plenty of Red bush and herbal tea instead. I'm not really hungry yet, just that gnawing tension. I still have quite a few high-concentration tasks ahead of me this afternoon, and need to find something that I think is lost, so I know that frustration lies ahead! Must not snack...arghhh!
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milliem



Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 1171

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia wrote:
I can't work out how to use HabitCal. Does it work for iPad? Can't find the SHOW button that Reinhard mentions....can someone talk me through it? Sorry if I am missing something very obvious! 🙄😊


I don't know much about iPads sorry are you using a browser to view the website? I access my habitcal just by clicking on the habitcal link at the top of the page, and then 'edit your calendar'.

Hope your teas kept you focused and away from snacking, tea is always my go to at the moment!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Milliem! It worked this time! So, I've clocked up two yellow days and one green so far. Hoping today will be a green. Going for a rehearsal tonight where a very dear friend always plies me with biscuits. That will be a challenge! Right now, I'm struggling to get through to dinner, but I had a bad night and it means I can't concentrate on work. I've gone through tea, decaf coffee and juice, and I'm now having a very small hot chocolate... needs must! As long as I don't eat solid food, I'm counting it as a success.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have just done my daily 'shovel glove'. Actually it's 14 mins of disco dancing, alone in my bedroom. It was fun. Why don't I do this more often? You only need 4 favourite songs. Feels a bit daft, but I need to get over this. I feel in a slightly different state of mind than before: like, hey, I still do have a body, and it can still move...hurrah!
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Larkspur



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 367
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay on the dancing!

Not snacking was really tough for me at first. I ate some big meals and drank homemade lattes to get me through. But I am so, so glad I hung in there. So many benefits and it's so much easier now. The best part is the normalcy and peace around food. Keep up the good work Smile
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're off to a great start! Glad you decided to start a check-in Smile
_________________
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.
2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies, Merry and Larkspur.

I'm certainly finding that milky drinks are helping right now. They're so much better than my old perma snacking.

But what's helping me most right now is this decision that I will commit to NoS regardless of whether I lose weight or not. Before, I'd think 'this can't be helping me lose weight, so what's the point?' I could only do something if I had certainty that it was working. And the absence of that certainty gave me the excuse to just go off the plan and eat whatever I wanted.

Maybe I have finally outwitted my treat-addicted brain! 😃

Just totting up two good N days is for me, a miracle! Hopefully today will go OK.
All the best! X
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to go to two events in London this evening. Planning on having a substantial sandwich in between, but I know I’ll be challenged by hunger and presence of alcohol. Had a bit too much wine last night and slept really badly again. Must be more careful tonight.
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milliem



Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 1171

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always find that my decision making when under the influence of wine (or any booze) is much worse and I can fall easily into snacking for no real reason. The hangover the next day is also a struggle!!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...hey Millie, I managed to get through all the social stuff with just one glass of wine! Phew. It can be ruinous to one's willpower! But I don't feel I ate particularly well yesterday - was too hurried to eat enough, really. But it was an N day, so I'm very pleased.

Had another restless night...I seem to have gone back to my insomnia phase, which I thought would be cured when I changed to a less stressful job. Sadly it seems to be an ingrained habit. I'm waking late every morning after maybe three or four hours' sleep, feeling groggy and immensely grateful that my husband (who sleeps like a log) has got our daughter ready for school, and that I don't have to go anywhere. I have work to do from home, but it's not stressful. I am very lucky in that respect. I suspect that even one glass of wine affects my sleep, but it's probably a whole host of things (even feeling happy and excited about NoS!) Must get out for some exercise today despite long list of stuff to do.

Off topic rant: I hate the term 'sleep hygiene', which experts and doctors are always using here in the UK! It makes us insomniacs feel that we must be somehow dirty, germ-infested and sluttish. Though maybe I am those things....😂😉

Well I've just had bacon and egg for my breakfast with lots of mushrooms and a small piece of toast. It was all a bit greasy and I haven't managed to finish it. But I've got some protein down me, which is good.

Still doing this approach of not waiting for weight loss. I haven't even weighed myself this time round, as I don't want to attach my tentative new habits to the elusive goal of weight loss. The fact is, that without overeating and snacking in treats, I am less bloated, so slimmer already. I already am losing that feeling of being ashamed of my body (knowing I've used it as a dustbin). I never thought I could disregard weight loss - it was always the other side of the bargain: I'll put in this effort in return for losing weight. I had to feel really inspired about a slimmer future self, really believe in it, in order to make the sacrifices. I now realise that this attitude was my Achilles heel. I couldn't stay inspired or optimistic; I couldn't even convince myself that 10-12lb of extra weight was worth worrying about. But I knew my body reflected my poor eating habits. I suddenly realised that I had to stop bargaining with NoS and just do it, for the sake of its immediate benefits - ending my stupid eating, ending the constant prodding of my 'reward centre', losing the bloating, losing the lack of natural appetite. If I stay at this weight, I don't mind, because it will no longer be a reflection of bad habits. 🙂
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I felt a bit icky yesterday, after the cooked breakfast. This made me feel anxious and wan all day. I often get these feelings. But a proper hunger returned in time for dinner, and after cottage pie and veg, I felt better. I am stressed right now - not ready for Christmas etc.. Although I'm an outgoing person, I need lots of time alone to process the world and the goings on in my life. If that time is missing, I feel tense and weird. Like life is running ME.

I hope today will be better. I'm still doing OK with NoS, filling in my habitcal and have almost clocked up a week of compliance! Yesterday I faced temptation when we had visitors, and I offered them luxury biscuits and later icecream. But got through OK! Could his possibly be a breakthrough for me? Although I'm writing in my daily log, I've stopped writing pages and pages in my journal about how to outwit my addictive appetite. I used to have epiphanies galore, none of which made a blind bit of difference! But when one's head goes quiet, that's got to be a good sign!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hurrah, I have done a week of No S! Today was another where I was out at an evening event. Twice, I had to have a substantial drink to get me through. But I'm really enjoying these drinks. They are things I never would have tried before, when I was trying to avoid unwanted calories. The first, around 4pm, was a black currant kefir, like drinking yoghurt, and it really revived me. Then later, at 10pm travelling home, I had a good quality strawberry milk shake - something I never would have had before. It was an absolute delight. Both of these were quite calorific drinks, but I'm in no doubt, I have eaten more healthily than in the old days, and probably fewer calories all round, too. It's so great to really enjoy my food and to be trying new things.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturday and Sunday have been good S days. A few snacks, the odd sweet, nothing too excessive. I've slept appallingly badly though, this week. Probably the stress of Christmas approaching, all the deadlines, and worries connected to work and other stuff. I don't think No S is to blame.

I hope l'll manage to get back to my N day habits tomorrow without too much difficulty. Still focussing in how NoS makes me feel in the moment, not what it might achieve in the future. I can't control my future behaviour. Sounding a bit New Age here...😊 But focussing on the Now really does help! I wonder if Ekhardt Tolle has brought out a book called the Now Diet?!!!
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on your first week!
_________________
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.
2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Merry! I'm so pleased I managed a whole week. Hope you had a good one, too.

Last night, I took a mild, over the counter sleeping pill, basically an anti histamine, and slept for 15 hours!!! The sleep debt had been building all week. I felt like a different person today. So much calmer and less anxious.
Yesterday (Monday), I had:
Egg on toast for breakfast.
Cappuccino later.
Two ryvtas and cheese plus veggie soup for lunch.
Smoothie around 5pm.
Vegetarian shepherd's pie for dinner with green beans.
Hot chocolate before bed.

Wrapped most of the Christmas gifts, and forgot to do my disco shovel glove. It's not part of my routine yet. I keep forgetting. But lots of things get forgotten this time of year.

Trying to remember Reinhard's saying 'nothing is in itself' - I think that's what he says - meaning that when we tell ourselves a small snack can do no harm, well it may indeed be harmless 'in itself', but but 'nothing is in itself'. Must find the quote in the book.


Last edited by Octavia on Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuesday:
B: one piece wholemeal toast with peanut butter
L: boiled egg, toast, apple, handful of hazelnuts
D: more veggie shepherds pie saved from yesterday

Had very busy evening playing in concert, and was hungry when I got home, so decided to have small dish of muesli with milk. It had been about 6 hrs since dinner, so I decided to call this a mod. I'd resisted an entire buffet while out at the concert, so decided the muesli was OK. I don't want to make a habit of having supper, though.
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RAWCOOKIE



Joined: 18 Jun 2015
Posts: 1309
Location: Cornwall, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you started a check-in thread. I started a couple of years' ago, and am so glad I blogged about it here because it's so great to be able to go back and read about my journey, and how I gradually changed.

I now deal with late evening hunger (which is not a frequent thing for me anyway) with a cup of cocoa. That hot, indulgent kind of a drink works well for me. I got home from work at 11.15pm last night, and had 2 tsps cocoa powder with hot water, and topped up with milk - I didn't need any sweetener. Sometimes I add a bit of grated nutmeg. But if I did want something sweet in it - that is within the No S rules.

Keep going - you'll be amazed at how you change.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your encouragement, Rawcookie! I'm really pleased I started a daily check in. NO S has such an amazing community of empathetic, intelligent folk - it's an amazing resource and I value people's comments enormously.

It's so odd how in my more calorie-conscious days, I used to spurn hot chocolate, thinking it was a pointless waste of calories - a pale imitation of real chocolate! So I'd be drinking spartan herbal teas, then enduring hunger and tension, and ending up splurging on huge bars of Tesco milk chocolate with hazelnuts. As for fruit juice, I wouldn't touch it: again, too calorific, and not as healthy as fruit. Well now I find these drinks have a place in my snack-free diet. I'm amazed I've come as far as this - just a week and a half on No S, but it's more than I've managed for years. I so hope that Christmas doesn't derail it all. The biggest challenge of the year awaits! My mum always gives me chocolate biscuits or truffle-type chocolates....as if maintaining an illusion of me as a young, carefree teenager with no health worries. Rather than a 52 year old who's a little on the heavy side. 🙄 Must stay strong!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christmas Eve. It's Sunday, so an S day, though I've lost track of the days of the week.

Just returned home after three days at my mum's. I felt tense and anxious; I don't like being removed from my ecosystem. My No S habits were compromised a bit, but not altogether. I wasn't attracted to permasnacking, though I did have desserts and a few extra chocolates. Not surprisingly I quickly came down with my 'anxious tummy' symptoms - probably a combination of eating the mainly processed diet my elderly mum prefers, and the discomfort I feel at being away from home. I'm already wondering if I can somehow avoid the travelling and visiting next year, but can't quite see how. If we went on holiday at Christmas, we'd just have to do the seasonal visit at another time.

So... I feel more bloated, and I'm thinking of making today an N day, even though it's Christmas Eve. Fortunately we're not entertaining today, so I could eat moderately. I don't want to descend deeply into my former state of helplessness, where I really had no resistance against sweets and snacks. But I can see how quickly and easily the good habits unravel, like a bit of beginner's knitting. But I knew that already. It's laughable how quickly the good work can all be undone.

I feel a bit down. Wistful memories of when Christmas was fun, when we were young...then stuff happens...the old family home starts to hold memories of grief and loss...relationships change and become strained...new responsibilities kick in, and it becomes more and more awkward to pack up one's adult life and go visiting. I'm OK with doing the dinner on Christmas Day (we're hosting my FIL) but preceding it with being away for 3 days is really challenging. My own parents would not have tolerated such stress in a million years! Mum would have been devoted to getting the presents ready and hosting the dinner - she didn't also have a job, and have to transport her family across the country and back! But our generation is expected to do it all: be in charge of the domestic duties AND earn the money, AND play the part of child coming home for the holidays. Two roles I can cope with, three is too many. (And I'm fortunate to have a supportive husband who books the cat sitter, loads the car, and puts up with my infuriating mother.)

Must brainstorm solutions.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 1004
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Octavia,
I'm sorry to hear you're having a bit of a stressful time. I don't have any great advice except to say . . . if your not enjoying it, don't do it. I can tell you from experience that there will be a bit of backlash in tbe beginning but I've found a combination of saying -
out-loud and often, "It's my holiday too and I want to actually enjoy it." and outright demanding help from the visitors(as in. . . "Sure you can come. Can you make the _____? Or bring the _______? Or stop and pick up_____?") and changing my own expectations about what the holiday "should" be has helped me manage the season.

Admittedly, we've simplified to a level others may not be comfortable with but that,along with everything else in life, was a process.

Happy holidays to you and your family,
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much, Gingerpie. These things are indeed a diplomatic minefield. Probably I need to change my mindset, just accept that I'm on duty, and that Christmas doesn't HAVE to be as much fun as when I was a kid. So there's no need to be sad - life just is how it is; nothing is lost, we just move on. However, it clearly is possible to take a bit more control, as you have done. I'm going to brainstorm a few ideas about this with my husband.

Snacked and ate chocolate last night. N habits have definitely been suspended.

Also, hilarious disaster! We thought we'd bought gammon for Xmas dinner, but on closer inspection last night, it's an already-roast ham! Arghhh! We'll have to serve cold meat with the dinner. 😂😭😂
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urgh I am stuffed!
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 1004
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Urgh I am stuffed!


Luckily, we know how to get un-stuffed. Wink 3 nice savory meals and no sweets for us today.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9089
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Octavia! Nice to meet you.

I'm not sure how old your mother is, or whether you feel she has other qualities you enjoy. I had had some years from adolescence through my 30's in which I felt very far from my family, though less so from my mother. She almost couldn't help offering me food when I wanted not to have to contend with it, and, boy would it tick me off. Thankfully, we were able to get closer and have some fun before she died when I was 53. I don't dwell on it but I do sometimes wish I had been able to handle some things better, or just have been less threatened by her suggestions. Why couldn't I just accept that she could have her opinions and I could have mine? (That's an ongoing personal problem for me, and I know it's a lot to ask with parents and family, but it's that or suffer, it seems.) I don't mean that someone needs to be intensely long-suffering, but parents aren't here forever. However, it doesn't mean you can't look for where you might draw some lines. It's fabulous that you have a husband to ponder it with.

I don't even have kids and I still feel burdened even as a senior citizen with the obligations of adulthood!

It sounds like things went okay, but let me say not to let slips make you think it's all for naught. Acknowledge ANY movement in the right direction and build on it. Vow to have a great last week of 2017.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Oolala. Thanks for sharing your thoughts....it's a time of year when we come face to face with difficult feelings about families and food. Funny how those two difficulties go hand in hand! I often wish I could handle family tensions better. I do pretty well, but I had a time when it was causing me awful anxiety and sadness, and out of respect for myself I have to keep a bit of distance. My mother is what I'd call 'tricky' - mostly kind and loving, sometimes manipulative and passive-aggressive, occasionally spiteful. I've learned to protect myself, but at the expense of closeness.

I meant to eat moderately today but ended up being unable to bear wasting this amazing dessert that my husband had made. And some delicious luxury chocolates which my FIL suddenly produced yesterday (why do they do this? Can't they see I'm not getting any smaller? The paranoid bit of me suspects that the elders enjoy this last bit of control they have over us younger ones!) I can't seem to draw a line under Christmas. Perhaps I feel I've spent the holiday fitting in with other people, and that I haven't had my own Christmas yet, so I can't move on, back to sweetless, snackless 'non festive' eating. But I will! Maybe tonight I'll throw it all away. Or put it all in a bag and take it to a food bank first thing tomorrow.

Wondering if I should announce to my family that I am now officially overweight and could they please not give me food as gifts. It would give them a great shock, as I don't look that big, but I'm sure they are well aware that I'd like to be slimmer. It would hold up a mirror to their behaviour. Ha! Does this sound ungrateful and mean?

Anyway, off to bed now, and tomorrow is another day.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9089
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if you could put off making such a request for now. See if you can start saying things like, "Maybe I'll have some later." Or, "I think I'd like to save that for the weekend." Or as little as possible. Start just choosing to keep to your savory meals without making a big deal. If you have to, "You know, I'm so tired of being so full a lot. I'd rather not eat anymore."

Be as gracious as you can. Try to channel you inner thin person. Ever notice how some thin people cannot be talked into food? They have it in their own sweet time and seem to assume others can handle it.

And I second putting it away, even if you're feeling unmoved now.

But there's no one way to find your rhythm. A lot of it is mindset, IMHO. When the mindset is there, solutions become easier to see and/or implement.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Oolala, you're definitely right about postponing requests till later. I'm wondering about waiting till Easter and saying something kind and gentle to the FIL about not getting me chocolate. I think it gives him a lot of pleasure to buy such gifts, now his wife is not here to spoil. Mind you, she was the only woman I ever knew who disliked chocolate. I could start another grumbling rant here...but no.

Had a good N day yesterday, though it wasn't easy - I had a brief nap in the afternoon, and woke with that shark-smelling-blood type of hunger. I managed not to give in to it, and like a madwoman on speed, I prepared a slightly shambolic tuna pasta and we had dinner. I ate so fast that I felt a bit sick afterwards. But I marked a green on my HabitCal, and that's the whole point. My body does struggle a bit to adjust to a different way of eating. But I'm determined to get back to it. Today will also be challenging as we have to go into London tonight, meaning we will be travelling at our usual dinner time. Must prepare ahead.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please try not to expect your body to take this easily or soon, though I know it's implied its grumblings are minor. It has SO many defenses against reducing the steady stream of food. It thinks it's saving your life! Just keep outlasting it. And typically, though you may very well be a blessed exception, it is not linear, meaning the cycles of ease and difficulty may go on without warning. Just keep thinking, what are my options? Another diet? Permanent overeating?
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Success!

Wow, doing No S today was so hard. I had to really contort my eating. We were on the road at dinner time and stopped at a service station. But as I'd eaten a late lunch, I wasn't hungry. I forced down half a bland toasted sandwich and mandarin orange, called it 'dinner', and bought a fizzy herbal drink ('Purdeys') and a milk shake in case of severe hunger later. Then annoyingly, the concert venue had a fabulous cafe serving delicious, healthy food! I wasn't expecting that. By that time, I was hungry. But I stoically drank my drinks, and here I am at bedtime, able to mark the day as Green. But my stomach feels awfully empty and I'm not sure I'll be able to sleep.

I'm under no delusions that I've eaten healthily today, but I've decided that the habits of no sweets and no snacks are more important in the long run.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a tough call to eat at dinner time when you weren't quite hungry, but I think you made the right choice. You couldn't have known the venue would have good stuff. It might have been an option to take the "dinner" food with you and eat closer to concert time. Then you might not have had to worry about hunger at bedtime. (Not a criticism.)

Kudos on sticking with it on a non-routine day. Even the best of us can get cattywompus (Sp?) when thrown that kind of curve. Very Happy
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SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again Oolala! My body has definitely spent decades on a constant stream of snacks. Cutting them out is a relatively new thing for me and feels quite unpleasant, insane even, at times. But as for the other options... to me there are two: calorie counting, or 'feed on demand' aka permasnacking(my default). Calorie counting, in my experience, means I am tempted to eat too little, whilst never getting to grips with my chocolate/treat/snack addiction - instead, I bargain with them and they eventually get the better of me. I'm glad I have done it, as it's a good education - I remember being shocked to realise that 10 pasta shells add up to around 100 calories. (I do think an attitude of calorie awareness is compatible with No S).

As for food elimination diets - 30 years ago I did the Hip & Thigh diet by Rosemary Conley, a low fat diet, and it quickly taught me how food elimination diets affect the mind. I began to crave previously neutral foods like cheese and eggs, and I think my chocolate fixation also began at this time. I've never done a food elimination diet since then - in fact, I've been very wary of diets altogether. NO S engages with my weaknesses so it's very challenging for me, but I don't think it's damaging to the mind or body - hurrah!

I'm fascinated by this battle we face. Swimming against this tide of food all around us, coping with the stress and habits within us. I'm always coming up with answers, but no matter how subtle my understanding or how determined my attitude, I haven't conquered the beast yet.

I found some Christmas treats tonight, which I failed to throw away. Arghhhh! Don't want to have a mad S day tomorrow. Must stay strong. 🙂
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the kudos! 😊Stomach grumbling a bit now... but glad I stuck to N habits.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I call it managing the excess, and that includes the excess of other people and the excess of diet head.

Being on WW years ago, as well as a few other influences taught me how to create some very satisfying meals at reasonable calorie counts and macronutrient ratios. Those have changed a bit, but still useful. I admit I sometimes do tally a bit when pulling together a meal.

I used to like chocolate soft serve at Costco, thinking it was a reasonable alternative to the denser chocolate offerings I usually ate, and which were hard to eat moderate portions of. I found out they were 400 calories! That's almost two Hershey bars. I didn't swear off them, but unconsciously found I was bypassing them more than I would have before I knew the truth.

BTW, that was after about a year of more on No S. I don't think it would have stopped me before that.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturday: a typical S day with quite a bit of random snacking and treating. All the Christmas stuff left in the house after my supposed clear-up. S days are a great way to be reminded that overeating and overtreating are not so enjoyable. But I knew that anyway...and I still do it, to be rid of the tension of trying not to do it.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good insight about what gets in the way. I think the greatest motivation is coming to the realization that it will probably be LESS painful (not painless) to manage that very human desire to overeat rather than the pain of continuing to do it. But it's also great honesty to see that's not where you're at. I wasn't either for a LOOONG time. The idea then of even cutting back called up a big NOOO!

Enjoy every bite!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUNDAY - another S day, and I'm eating lots of chocolate again. I remember this is one reason I gave up No S before - I thought it wasn't addressing my chocolate habit. But it is - going 5 days without chocolate is quite significant for me! I'm carrying on.

I'm wondering whether to continue with the running I've been doing for the last 14 months. I've gone from being unable to jog for more than 45 seconds to being able to jog slowly for 30 minutes. Although this is a massive achievement for me, it has had a negligible impact on my health, as far as I can tell! No weight loss/inch loss, no impact on my insomnia, and no improvement in mood - in fact the contrast between my personal experience and the Internet myths on running ('it changed my life!') has made me feel like a real loser.

The thing is, though, because running is so challenging, I was forced to do it regularly - a bit like playing the violin in that respect (so I hear). So 2017 was the first year I exercised three or four times a week. That's why I am still drawn to running. I'm just learning some tough lessons: I was even more unfit than I realised; becoming fluent in running takes longer than you think; jogging for 30' (plus 15' walking to warm up and cool down) doesn't burn that many calories, even if you're using every ounce of willpower and determination you have.

It would be sad to give up after I've come so far. Maybe it's like No S - you have to do it for ages before you get results!?
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I thought about the value of NO S and chocolate/sweets! No matter how much of it I ate on the weekend, it was still less than I used to eat and I had TWENTY sweet-free days a month. That was like a miracle to me. No S alone didn't address my chocolate habit, either, but I didn't have much faith anymore that anything else (going low carb/high fat, doing intense emotional analysis, striving to make other dreams come true, etc.) was going to, either. I hope this time you hang in there.

I'm impressed with your consistency with running!!! You gave it the old college try, at least.

The fact that running didn't solve your problems (by the way, that is my experience with OODLES of solutions to all kinds of problems, and it has at times driven me to a dark night of the soul) might not be enough of a reason to give it up, though I think you could get a very similar bang for your buck with Reinhard's combo- 14 minutes of something intense, and walking, though it might need to be longer than 30 minutes if it's not pretty brisk.

I judge by reports from the study of long-lived residents of the Blue ("Live to 100") Zones. They just about never do anything akin to training for a marathon. They think running sounds silly, but most of them live in hilly environs and probably work similarly hard and long as a 30-minute run getting to and fro on daily walking trips. And they garden and do other functional activity. No couch potatoes.

But the payoff for continuing to run. probably won't be in the areas you want, but in intangibles like overall health down the road. In the now, do you actually feel better overall doing it? Is it pleasant or relaxing or fun? Does it improve you life any other ways valuable to you? I quit decades ago because my knees were starting to hurt and I needed to have a lot more fun doing it for that result. If I'm going to hurt from something, I'd rather dance, even though I don't do that often, either.

So maybe consider doing 14 minutes of ANYTHING to start and then expanding?

Man, I do go on and on . Embarassed

But overall, I think you're right on track.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that sometimes the mood improvement is linked to doing an activity that we enjoy.

For example, I totally am a fan of my morning walks in the woods with my dog. I love the peace that washes over me when I see the little changes in the plants through the seasons, and watch my dog jump in puddles. And btw, I live in suburbia, I just happen to have a **tiny** green space near my house.

I also get that "high" from Zumba dance class, even though it's inside.

But ultra kudos to you for achieving this running goal! Yay for a great year! Oh, and don't forget -- your fasting glucose may be better now, your bp may be better, you are probably more insulin sensitive, your neurons may have cleared out more of those nasty protein tangles, etc. Don't judge your book purely by its cover! Smile
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for your replies! Oolala, you don't go on and on at all. 🙂I found it really interesting, what you said. And incredibly consoling, that you too have never experienced that 'it changed my life' thing that so many people talk about. Actually, if you dig deeper in the internet, you find plenty of people who are running, weight training, eating painfully sensibly, and can't lose weight. So I should hardly be surprised that my own experience with running was not exactly magical. Like you, I've had some very dark moments on contemplating the apparent injustice of this, but in the end I've managed to assert my philosophical side and say 'it is how it is.' Perhaps this year, that would make a good motto for me!

In fact, in my recent jogs - slow but successful ones - I chanted STOP THINKING! and BLANK MIND! to myself, to stop the angry and self-pitying thoughts derailing me.

Automated, thanks for your insights, you've reminded me of the hidden benefits of exercise. Those slow jogs must be doing something for me - I do remember one doctor telling me it was great for bone-strengthening, which is important for me. I had an early menopause after chemo for breast cancer, aged 38, and was told I'd need to protect my bones. I do indeed feel that my joints are stronger. I go very gently so as not to stress them too much, and though that might not be great for weight loss, not being injured and in pain is more important.

A little hungover today after a fun dinner party last night, which ended in a game of Cat Bingo. I can't even explain. 😂

Happy New Year! Here's to another year of No S success and support on this great forum.
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gingerpie



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Octavia,
I get very frustrated when I hear people talk about this or that thing that changed their life and suddenly their goals are achievable - usually accompanied by talk about how great they feel and it's always so easy!! Honestly, I think their "thing" probably is leading them to good insights about themselves and really is working for them. (At least for now) But that doesn't mean it's necessarily my thing. Personally, I started running just like you only at 15 second not 45 and now I run 3-4 miles on hilly terrain 4 days a week. The other 3 days I walk. For me, it helps me feel strong and capable and I have amazing feelings of accomplishment. I do struggle a bit when I feel like I'm not losing weight and my pride suffers when I see everyone else getting faster and better and I'm struggling just to maintain. But the truth is that I'm 56 not 36 and I still eat waaaay too many calories in the evenings. So, my long-winded point? I feel in my gut that you must be getting something good out of running because 14 months is a really long time to stick with a routine with no payoff. But perhaps, like I sometimes do, you're trying to compare your results to someone elses ideal. We can't do that. We have to go inward to know whether or not something is working for us. But, after all that being said . . . if you feel you can get better results with a different routine? Go for it!! We all really do have walk our own path.

Best of luck to you in 2018 and beyond😊
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gingerpie! Thanks for this - and you're right, I WAS getting something out of my running sessions...a sense of accomplishment, and indeed, I learned to stop thinking angry, bitter thoughts about how the Couch to 5K method had lied to me, saying I could run 5K in 9 weeks...or, I wondered, was it just me that was unusually hopeless? All this chimed in with my self-image since childhood...that although I was never one of the few obese children, I felt I had less athletic ability than anyone in the school.! These painful childhood feelings stay with us, and my running really brought me up against it. I learned to blank my mind and just focus in the now, without judgement or commentary. So for me, it brought great awareness of my destructive thinking patterns.

I too find it hard to accept that I am 52, and my results will not be the same as a younger person's. I'm probably harbouring regrets that I didn't become more physically active earlier in life...and refusing to face up to the limitations of age. This stuff is hard.

Onwards! Upwards!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...I still have a hangover from last night. The distraction of the cute kitties in the Cat Bingo game meant I downed too many glasses of wine without realising it. 😂. I only managed a tiny lunch and now have a low-blood-sugar feeling. It's not dinner time yet, so I am having a cuppa soup. Urghhh 😩
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly, today was a fail. Hungover, and grateful to husband for cooking dinner, but he made a protein-free tomato pasta thing which left me a bit unsatisfied. So I headed to my stash of hazelnuts, but there were none left, and PING I remembered the butterscotch mousse in the fridge. Only small, but that's definitely a sweet. Couldn't resist.

Then at the cinema, I resisted all chocolate and crisps. Felt good. But once home, was hungry and couldn't face my usual milky drink. Ate three small biscuits.

Feel a bit disappointed - I wasn't experiencing any particular cravings nor ambivalence about No S, yet my lack of organisation and control led to a fail day. And tomorrow is (I've decided) an S day, with not one but two party things to go to! I'd love to seize the reins of control once more, go shopping, make a meal planner, stock up with useful things. But I'll have to wait till Wednesday.
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milliem



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

January 1st is always a tough one! Be kind to yourself Smile

Just wanted to chime in and say that I too have not experienced the magic of running despite many attempts Laughing I've done couch to 5k a few times and even got up to running a 10k, but I can probably count the number of runs I've actually enjoyed on one hand! I also didn't actually run 5k in distance at the end of the first (or second, or third) 9 weeks, although I managed a slow 30 minute plod. I also had varying success with running as part of weight loss - at first I think it did help and was running when I got down to my lowest ever weight, but last time I added running to my exercise regimen it made absolutely no difference at all.

I definitely think that whatever exercise you enjoy is the best one, and if that changes every 2 months then so be it. I go through phases but tend to walk fairly consistently and switch between yoga, weight training and running (not often all at the same time).
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not saying my experience would be yours but several years of decently-compliant No S and extremely intermittent bouts of x-minutes of intense exercise and walking over the years led me to be able to walk nearly 14 miles in a day of trail hiking a year ago in September. The effects can show up quite removed from the actual "anything." Or maybe none of it had anything to do with it and I'm a case in a thousand. I'd bet on small consistencies have similar payoffs for you.

Also, I hope I can good-humoredly remind you that you have been posting seriously for less than a month. Diet head is what leads people to believe that there will be little pain at all and even that will all be over in a few weeks after starting with the new regime. Then again, you did say you were only a bit disappointed, not throwing yourself on the bed crying. Good, that! You'll have many more opportunities to take failures in stride and get better at making supportive choices along the way during your years on plan.

You definitely don't have to wait until Wednesday to be on plan. You really can stick to it for a day or two (or more) even with low protein choices, etc. But whatever you decide, also decide that you're on track!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Millie and Oolala! Your encouragement is very appreciated. Today I succeeded! 😃

I even had the willpower to put work to one side at 4pm and go for a good walk. This feels quite significant for me: normally I will compulsively push on with a project till I finish it, despite dwindling concentration. Today I knew I had to draw a line under work and move on to a new activity. Could this be the start of a new habit? It's certainly a new behaviour for me.

Twice today I was drawn to the luxury chocolates (OH NO! NOT AGAIN!) bought by FIL for husband's birthday. It's not exactly a craving I get, more a feeling of the futility of resistance. A sort of mini-depression and feeling of defeat. But the words of a No S veteran came to me: you never regret not giving in. Who said that? Can't remember....but their words saved me today, so I'd like to thank them!

Mottos like that present water-tight, addiction-proof logic. I need more of these. My habit-addled brain can argue its way out of anything, twist any resolution! This has always been my greatest challenge.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, I'm going to take credit, though I might be wrong you got it from me. But I am very fond of saying it because I finally saw that it was true and it has made a difference so many times. I realize it's a version of one of Beck's "mantras, " as I call them. "I'll be happier if I just stick to my plan." Also another one of hers: "I'll regret it later. " The adaptation is more powerful for me because it uses my experience, which is a great teacher. But I had to get there first!
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It's not exactly a craving I get, more a feeling of the futility of resistance. A sort of mini-depression and feeling of defeat.

I've often felt sad about the "losses" I've experienced on no-s. It takes quite some adjustment to get use to giving up the freedom of eating whatever and whenever. It was something that I associated with youth and when I started setting limits it made me feel old. I'm not saying you have the same feeling. I just mean that eating and even not eating can be linked to all sorts of unexpected emotions. Be kind to yourself but also be firm. This too is part of the learning process.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention that the "lower" brain can come up with all sorts of thought streams to get us to eat. It's not being dastardly about it. It's like a computer. "Eating has reduced. Danger! Danger! Must save organism. Produce sensations and thoughts to get food. Make life very uncomfortable." Prefrontal brain responds "Not on my watch. We're fine. Get over it."
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Oolala, I wondered if it was you, who mentioned that thing about never regretting not giving in. Thanks so much. 🌺 Your words helped me hugely yesterday.

I'm sure I have a couple of Martha Becks on my Kindle. Must return to them! One thing I find very interesting: for me at present, it's more powerful to consider that I will NOT regret NOT giving in, than to consider that I WILL regret giving in. Somehow the lower brain is able to fool me on the second, but not the first, which really brings me back to reality. The thought streams of the lower brain are intriguing. I'm definitely in the process of strengthening the higher brain. On the look out for more mantras. Will be scouring the NoS forum for more ideas.

GIngerpie, that sadness and awareness of ageing you mentioned is certainly an issue for me. Eating freely feels like childhood/youth/normality, which is why the new discipline can feel foreign, unsettling and not to be trusted. Not that I was ever one of those thin kids who could eat anything and stay thin! I was always just as I am now: slightly overweight. Snacking freely and eating sweets was not good for me then ....but in my mind it's linked to a certain freedom from worry. thanks for the solidarity here. It's comforting to know that you have been through the same thing.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you mean Judith Beck? Martha's the one who snuck massive amounts of sweets and snacks into a diet center for a group of people she was working with there. Well, I forget how she was associated but she wasn't in the center. Shocked

It's easier to obey the lower brain because it's on a survival program. It can assert pretty powerful impulses. But those can be trained. I remember reading once of a brain scan done a woman who had previously been obese but had lost and maintained the loss for quite awhile. I think they showed her pictures of palatable foods and parts of her prefrontal cortex "lit up." It showed that a strong network had formed.

And there's a famous story of a guy who worked with machinery who had a steel rod go all the way through his skull and lived. His personality changed and he became belligerent, impulsive, unreliable, and angry, all things his friends and coworkers said were atypical. It destroyed parts of his brain where restraint usually develops.

Makes controlling eating look pretty good, no? There's no food jail, except the one in our minds.

Hey, I just thought of one for not getting caught up in regret: Don't put yourself in food jail just for a slip.


https://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3883
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, of course there are two Becks! 😂 I have a Judith Beck on my Kindle too. Didn't know that story about Martha Beck!

The idea of Food Jail reminds me of the words of Reinhard, when he warns us against taking punitive measures after a fail. He explains that it can lead us to feel that failing is OK, as we can compensate for it later. He has a good point.

I've just bought the NoS book in paperback form, and I think it'll be more helpful that way. I can write in it, store it by the bed, flick through, and be more on top of its overall structure (than on my downloaded copy). I'd forgotten so much of Reinhard's advice.

Had another good day today - still remembering that one never regrets not giving in!
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's time for me to reread Reinhard's book! I haven't read it in years!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's amazing how much good stuff is in that book, Auto! There are subtle insights in every paragraph! Lots of points I'd forgotten.

I got out for a run today, for the first time in a few weeks. I was pleased to find that my body could still tolerate running (well naturally I mean jogging!). I told myself I'd just do a few minutes and then just walk if I had to, but I managed about 25 in the end. I listened to a podcast by Julie Creffield who runs the website, toofattorun. It was encouraging and helpful. I've always found music too tricky - it's always too fast or too slow - but podcasts are wonderfully distracting! Perhaps a should download Reinhard's! They're probably a bit short, though. Anyway, after today I feel sure that I'll continue running.

I'm glad to say that today was a successful N day.
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the podcasts by RadioLab!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooh, must check them out! I haven't heard of RadioLab. Thanks, Automated! (My spellcheck just wrote your name as Auntie Omad. 🙄😂 Glad I spotted that before I posted....)

Glad it's the weekend, though I'm tired and grumpy after one of my bad nights. I have to work from home quite a bit, and yesterday, it just expanded out of my control. I wish I could separate work and life a bit better. Even though I'm lucky enough to have an enjoyable job. Mustn't dwell on this - I have a long journey and a party to go to.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunday: lots of chocolate. Otherwise normal. I must not forget the pointlessness of chocolate. I'm allowed to eat it, as it's as S day, but really, why bother? One positive thing though, is that I quickly realised I was going to spoil my appetite for dinner, and stopped munching the chocs. Previously, I might not have done that.

There's just one thing bothering me right now: I often sleep very badly, and an uncomfortably empty stomach has not helped the last few nights. I'm often still awake at 2 am, which can be quite a few hours after dinner, so I'm wondering whether to do an insomnia modification, and allow myself a couple of plain biscuits. I don't want to just keep on having milk as I've usually had some earlier in the evening. Some nights, the empty feeling isn't a problem; at other times, it almost hurts. Hopefully my body will adapt to less food.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monday: managed fine. Travelling but not socialising, so I feel in control. Hurrah!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good so far this week. I’m glad I’m no longer prey to random snacking - in the old days I was never sure whether each individual snack was either wise or justified, was always afraid to be empty, in case I really would run out of energy and collapse. I was always sort of feeling my way...aware of the need to ‘not diet’, but not sure what else to do.

We went out for a pizza tonight, and I was truly hungry after a work meeting followed by a busy parents’ evening, but had had a small drink of milk which really helped to get me through. Then was able to resist starter and dessert, and just had about two thirds of a pizza. I hope I can continue like this. Remembering those sayings, ‘you never regret not having the snack’ and ‘I’ll be happier if I stick to my plan’. Thanks to Oolala for passing those on!
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on a victorious day!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Friday. I was tempted by chocolates in the fridge - the ones I was scoffing last weekend. But that simple thing, ‘I’ll feel happier if I stick to my plan’ helped me get past the moment. I’ve had two glasses of milk today, plus two glasses of juice (as well as the usual tea, coffee, herbal tea) to get me through, and meals have been less than ideal, but I’ve stuck to the No S guidelines. I should make a point of not being out at the shops at lunchtime. A cafe lunch is never as healthy as the lunches I make at home.

I wonder if I should weigh myself. I’m too afraid to. I think it would put me off No S. I’m bound to be heavier than I would like, and I might end up getting de-motivated, overwhelmed and helpless. I tried on some clothes today, and my usual size was tight. Also, I didn’t manage to get out for a run today, which annoyed me. Somehow, work and chores took over the day. But I’m not going to let it depress me. I have nearly reached the end of a totally green week, which is amazing. I’m sure all the milk and juice I’ve drunk can’t add up to as much as the solid snacks I used to eat. I used to have a snack with morning coffee - usually one slice of toast with some sort of topping....then in the afternoon, two or three portions of fruit, a bar of chocolate most days, maybe a couple of crispbreads later, and after dinner: ice cream. I MUST be eating less! I just hope I can stick at this and not have a brainstorm.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for cheering me on, Automated! Hope you have a good weekend.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s now Wednesday and after two successful N days, I have gone down with a cold. I really white knuckled my way through the morning, but gave up in the afternoon. I was so tired, weak, hungry, headachey etc....I hate colds! I am calling it an S day. Tomorrow I must make an effort to eat better.

I’ve been reading The Economists’ Diet. It’s similar to No S in some ways, yet very different in others, and probably could represent a danger for many of us fragile beginners. Right now I feel too Blurgh with my cold to explain further, but I want to post more about this soon.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another sick day, and I’ve been randomly snacking to take my mind off the aching head and sore throat. It’s like I have no willpower. All I want to do is sleep.

I know I won’t be better by tomorrow, but I do wonder if I should put all my effort into having a green day. I have a fair bit of laptop work to do, but I suppose I could do it in bed, for comfort! Though that won’t help my aches and pains in the long run!

Blurghhhhh 🤒🤧
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have failed again, already! Ate ice cream half way through the morning. Cold is worse and I’ve just gone to bed. It’s hard to care about anything except feeling better NOW! 🤒
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decided to make Saturday an N day, to try to atone for the three sick days I’ve had this week, where I snacked and ate treats with abandon. That worked quite well. Sunday, I’m back to S behaviour. I wonder what this week will bring...
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Selcazare



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you're feeling better, Octavia. Sick days are the worst. Confused
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much, Selca! I am feeling quite a lot better. I’m terrible when I have a cold - I become quite anxious and depressed when my functioning is impaired. Back on Thursday I even wondered if I’d gone down with the Aussie Flu, which I’ve been reading about! But no, it’s just been a cold. Phew! 😊
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Selcazare



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely better to have a cold than the flu! Even is the cold is a beast. Keep taking gentle care of yourself.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Selca! I’m definitely feeling better.

I feel as if I’ve gone on to the next stage of my No S journey. I really appreciate the N day habits. They are exactly what I needed to learn - no snacks, no sweets (seconds aren’t my issue). Focusing on the habits, just for the sake of learning to eat sensibly and normally, has been my goal. I stopped caring about weight loss: none of my recent attempts had made any difference, and in my disillusionment, I was completely trapped in the habit of following my impulses (the impulse to respond to the first sign of hunger, and the impulse to respond to the urge for a treat).

I’ve learnt two amazing lessons.
1. I CAN go without chocolate/treats for days at a time.
2. I CAN endure hunger; it’s not to be trusted, and my body needs to learn to adapt, instead of becoming light-headed very quickly.

With these two lessons under my belt - or at least, I’m getting there - I’m once more thinking about weight loss, and wondering if it might actually be a possibility, rather than a ‘unicorn’, as I described it a few weeks ago.

So I stepped in the scale. Weight: 155 lb. That is exactly what I expected, no surprises there, as my normal weight for the last couple of years has been around 11 stone. I spent my earlier adult life around 10 stone (eating completely freely). On a diet, I managed to lose half a stone, cutting back a lot. It was always very tough, so I was generally satisfied with my normal weight, as the alternative seemed unsustainable and the benefits of dieting so minimal. I wavered between a large UK size 12 and a moderate size 12!

But obviously, I didn’t stay there, and my snacking and treating habits got worse through my forties. Now I’m a large size 14. So I DO want to lose weight if I possibly can. I’m still bearing in mind the idea of sticking to No S habits come what may, though. I weighed myself this morning after two virtuous N days, and the scale hasn’t shifted. This has affected my mood, and suddenly there’s a subtle, unpleasant tension. A sense of waiting. I need to get out of this and regain my stoicism!

Of course my first month on No S contained way too many calories for me to lose any weight (no idea exactly what I weighed when I started) but I did wonder if the scale would show a slight drop over the last two days (have been discussing the feasibility of this on another thread, the one about the Economists’ Diet).

So I’m still very much in two minds about whether to weigh every day or not. I used to find it motivating, but now the scale doesn’t ‘play ball’ quite so well, I might not bother. I’m determined to do No S even without the scale’s approval!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite tough today...I really do feel ghastly when I get hungry. I felt almost queasy, light headed and borderline distressed roundabout 5pm. But was determined not to snack. I was stressed and busy, and got a meal ready for my daughter before her dance class. When I finally had a small plate of beans on toast (no time to cook properly today) I felt immeasurably better.
So....
Breakfast: egg, mushrooms, crumpet.
Lunch: three ryvitas with cheddar and tomatoes.
Dinner: beans on toast, banana, apple.

Later had medium glass of wine and a cherry flavoured kefir.

Successful day, then, but not particularly pleasant. I had a low mood all day, and I know that snacks and treats would have made me feel better. But I’m training myself not to do that now.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good grief, a miracle! On Thursday morning the scales had budged by a whole pound! I appear to have lost weight. But of course, it will be up again tomorrow- especially as I had quite a filling dinner, a stir fry with rice. But never mind. Any downwards scale movement is welcome.
B - egg, mushrooms, half a piece of toast
L - chicken salad sandwich
d- beef stir fry.

Two glasses of wine. More of that cherry kefir stuff. (Was out at an exhibition till quite late).
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pound loss was quickly regained despite my continued No S compliance. So by the end of the week I was still at square one. No surprises there, considering my age, weight, height etc.. Weight loss is still very elusive for me.

Have spent two mad S days - well not really mad, just free, the way I used to eat. It’s so funny how those old habits are there, waiting for me every weekend. But the surprising thing is how the N day habits are also firming up. I’m looking forward to returning to the rules. How I need those rules.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This month, I’ve had a very similar working routine every week, and this has really helped me. I have a certain journey, I buy certain foods at certain shops. I know when I’ll be eating. It’s made me realise how my routine is often a bit chaotic, working around other people, and then No S becomes more difficult. Other people = eating too early, too late, being faced with unexpected temptation, etc.. anyway, I’m feeling somewhat grateful for my routines this month. Next month things will change, but hopefully I’ll maintain control.

Today’s stats:
B - 2 ryvitas with butter and low sugar jam
L - small bowl of pasta with broccoli and Parmesan cheese
D - fairly big salad with egg and quinoa. A few pieces of mango and one of those kefir drinks that I’m enjoying at the moment.

Nice to be back in my routines, after that S day ‘insane’ feeling. I’m obviously still in th first phase of No S - or maybe phase one and a half! My N days are going really well, and my S days are just like my weekends used to be. Chocolate, crisps, wine, pudding with dinner....but I’m trying not to worry too much. When I’ve got more N days under my belt, I may feel strong enough to impose more discipline. The N habits are growing. I’m feeling a great aversion to messing up my N days. I’m thinking of myself as someone who doesn’t snack between meals and doesn’t eat sweet treats during the week. This is quite miraculous. And I don’t think my weekends are any worse than they used to be.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s very clever how the No S rules lead to reduced calories. I thought I’d eaten a lot today, and had even had a hot chocolate this evening in response to a low mood and a real need for comfort. But when I totted up my day’s intake, it was under 1500. Just an estimate of course, but I was still surprised and pleased. Its because I didn’t snack, and didn’t eat any solid treats. It works!

Haven’t tried weighing myself for a while, though. If it’s true that a pound of weight is the equivalent of 3,500cals, then I will be waiting a long time to lose that pound. According to my rough estimates, I am creating a very modest calorie deficit each week - maybe as little as 500 cals a week (though these days I’m heavier, so may be burning a bit more than I’ve allowed for!). Still, it adds up. And doing the maths does keep you real. I’m not expecting any miracles.

What is a miracle though, is that I’m not eating chocolate every day! 😃
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B- a couple of tablespoons Greek yoghurt with honey, and a few nuts; a piece of wholemeal toast with peanut butter.
L - Beans on toast (left half of it as realised the bread had gone off - ugh!) enormous banana to take away the taste of the bread, and a few more hazelnuts.
D - cottage pie with big pile of veg, and an apple.

Managed a tiring shopping trip with daughter, while feeling quite hungry - that’s a real achievement for me! Didn’t feel faint or panicky. Just hungry and tired, which is fine.

I’m really pleased with how my N days are going. I feel I’m learning to eat moderately and am genuinely gaining new habits. I no longer feel so addicted and hopeless. I actually seem to have normal willpower. Just served daughter a chocolate pudding with melting centre plus fresh vanilla custard. There were two in the pack. But I’m not bothering with the spare! This is a huge change from how I was. I don’t want to interfere with how it’s working, though I don’t think I will lose any weight until I start controlling my weekend eating. I’d be interested to know how long other people waited before they started controlling their S days.

One thing I’m sure of, though, is that I will need very clear rules. Otherwise I just make things up as I go along, hijacked by my old habits.
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Larkspur



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about the toast. Sounds like a lovely day otherwise.
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Merry



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia wrote:

I’m really pleased with how my N days are going. I feel I’m learning to eat moderately and am genuinely gaining new habits. I no longer feel so addicted and hopeless. I actually seem to have normal willpower. Just served daughter a chocolate pudding with melting centre plus fresh vanilla custard. There were two in the pack. But I’m not bothering with the spare! This is a huge change from how I was. I don’t want to interfere with how it’s working, though I don’t think I will lose any weight until I start controlling my weekend eating. I’d be interested to know how long other people waited before they started controlling their S days.


Wow, great job on the N days!

Honestly, I haven't really tried to control S days much. Mostly I just let N day habits "leak out" into the S days. So, I had wild days as a matter of course every S day for several months. Then I started noticing...I didn't want quite as much sugar. So my days morphed into sorta-wild instead of very wild. Then I noticed I looked forward to Mondays and getting back into habits--and sometimes only one of my S days would be sorta-wild, and the other would be closer to normal with a couple of treats. Sometimes I get snacky but other times I kind of forget I "can" have snacks and just don't. I went to some parties on N days and realized I could say no to brownies...and then sometimes on S days I would think--I don't really need to eat tons of these to be satisfied, one or two is enough.

And so on.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, thanks Merry! Your reply has really clarified things for me. The idea that instead of trying to control my S days and bring them more in line with N days, I should just allow them to settle, allow the N day habits to ‘leak out’! I know exactly what you mean. I’m going to follow your example, because my N day habits are still like young, green shoots. I don’t want to do anything to jeopardise them. They are becoming more and more instinctive, which feels strange, but as know that my old instincts are still there, strong and dangerous. If I mess around with my S days, everything could go wrong for me.

I know I’m not losing any weight as yet, but that’s just how it is for someone of my age and BMI.

I’ll just carry on!

Have bought a Lindt chocolate bunny for tomorrow. 😊❤️🐰
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturday morning, and I’ve eaten the chocolate bunny. I was unsure how to spend my morning (after doing a minimal clean-up operation in the wake of a teen sleepover) and chocolate sure does fill that void of confusion. Shall I do a bit of Proper Work? Go out in the freezing rain for a walk? Finish the clear up? Continue working on the sewing pattern I’ve been doing? Sort my paperwork which is in a mess? Ah, the chocolate bunny.

Confusion, conflicting priorities and indecisiveness are my great challenges in life. But I’m starting to see how the resulting inertia can be tolerated without chocolate. Not on an S day though. That breakthrough is still to come!
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milliem



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having the exact same internal debate/struggle about S days and whether to try and 'control' them. I like the idea that N day habits will bleed over, hopefully that doesn't take too long to happen!
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Merry



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems only fair--after all, you did BUY the bunny for today! Glad you enjoyed it Smile
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2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear, I know it’s an S day but I’ve eaten so much more than the chocolate bunny. I don’t feel particularly stuffed, just sort of ‘normal’, like I used to feel. I’ve really treated myself to whatever I fancied. No willpower whatsoever, as if I’ve learnt nothing from N days! They are still separate, like a different world, a different me. Is it really possible that the N day habits will leak over into the S days without me trying, or making a decision to limit my S days in some way? I feel like I must be the most treat-addicted person in the world.

At the moment, No S feels a bit like going on a diet and coming off a diet...but the phases are more enjoyable. The N days feel intriguing (I can feel them working on my brain wiring) and the S days feel liberating. But will these two states of being ever meld together into something that might produce weight loss? Will I get the urge to rein in my S days? That impulse isn’t there yet.

Anyway, it’s all intriguing. And I am not exactly bingeing on my S days....just eating like I used to do, no more no less. So overall, I must be eating less.

It’s a bit like failing on a diet over and over again...lapsing every weekend....but unlike normal dieting, I see no reason to give up. I keep getting back to the diet.

STOP PRESS! i have just had a terrible wave of nausea and fainted on the bathroom floor! Hot bath after big meal out and nibbling on chocolate all day. This is a sign! The excess must end! 🤢😮
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Lilybug



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my goodness! I hope you're ok! Do you think your blood sugar/pressure got too high after the hot bath?

I know I've felt light headed after a hot bath and chocolate sometimes makes my heart race.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m fine now, thanks Lilybug! I might google it, and find an explanation - probably something to do with blood pressure, and blood being directed to the wrong places after the meal. DH said it once happened to him. I feel a bit shaken up though, as I’ve only ever fainted once before in my life.

I really did eat too much yesterday. I was just snacking all day. I’d been working in the morning, and was too tired to actually do anything positive with the day. I must be more proactive today.
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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you’re okay! S days can be frustrating but they do make it easier to get through N days because you know you’re just delaying sweets and snacks and not cutting them out of your life forever.

For most people the S days calm down after awhile. If they don’t you can always add some structure into them later.

Gl!
_________________
"Every weakness contains within itself a Strength."
Shūsaku Endō

3/14-210 lbs;
3/15- 202 lbs;
1/16- 172 lbs;
9/17-177 lbs;
1/18-162 lbs;
4/18-157.4 lbs


Current weight: 153.2 lbs






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Octavia



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Linda! I feel that the fainting incident has really added to my determination to look after myself better. I was so tired on Sunday. Well on Monday, I actually decided to fast for the whole morning! It felt very easy, and I’m starting to like the idea of fasting. It’s a more positive way of looking at not eating. I thought of my system settling down and having a nice rest from dealing with food. I’ve actually started wanting to give my system a complete break in between meals, and the milk, juice and hot chocolate I needed in my early weeks now doesn’t seem so necessary. I almost wonder if I’ve moved to the next stage of No S! I do feel that I have more of a chance of starting to lose a bit of weight.

So my current focus is fasting properly between meals....I’m still not ready to restrict my S days. Like you said, Linda, they are so important in helping us deal with the N days.
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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you're doing great! Yes, fasting between meals is really helpful I think. I wish I had known the importance of that when I first started NOS.

Keep up the great work!
_________________
"Every weakness contains within itself a Strength."
Shūsaku Endō

3/14-210 lbs;
3/15- 202 lbs;
1/16- 172 lbs;
9/17-177 lbs;
1/18-162 lbs;
4/18-157.4 lbs


Current weight: 153.2 lbs






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oolala53



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're funny! You think you might be the most addicted person in the world. Look at the world! Every place people get access to more food, especially modern processed foods, there are literally tons of people "addicted" to food. I used to tune out when I'd read someone go on a rampage against Big Food, but the data sure shows that's almost not a fair fight. At least one S day a week was pretty wild for me for-wait for it- two years! I may have had too much patience but I weighed less every year and had little fluctuation. Besides, I felt sad when I thought of curtailing them! Boy, was I seduced. I finally thought, ok, I'm willing to go through the pain of instituting a mod, and the issue has become very managable. Sure, I had relapses but in "addiction" stats that is totally normal. In fact, the slips can be very effective at getting people to recommit because the negative effects become SO obvious that they get "religion."

I think when you're at that point, I mean really at that point and not just wishing you were because you want to lose, you can chance it. You'll feel itss a fair enough trade, and that makes a big difference. That's why so many people with real health crises can suddenly give up the cheesecake or whatever that they never could because, well, it's worth the tradeoff! But some of them never get their and they pay a very high price.

The element of true choice is so important. An obesity doctor I heard once on youtube or something said when his patients complain about how hard it is and how much they miss their industrial food (not their term), he thinks uh oh. Things are going to fall apart, because he's seen it before. They have to feell that their life is better with the new eating.

Gillian Riley says that when you can say, " I could actually eat that and get rid of these uncomfortable feelings, but it's okay. I'll put up with them because not eating is going to get me something I really want- freedom, or the peace of control or feeling better in my clothes, etc., you have a really good chance.

I think you'll know when that time comes, if the habit doesn't fade on its own.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the perspective, Oolala. Interesting to hear that you had a wild S day for quite a long time. I really don’t feel in a hurry to control my S days yet. I think it would backfire on me. What I do feel prepared to do is give up a few calorific drinks on N days, and instead, feel the empty feeling and not worry about it. I did weigh myself this morning....it was a very light eating day yesterday....but once again the scales haven’t shifted. I’m neither disappointed nor surprised. Things really do change as you get into your late 40s, I think. It’s why the long term approach of No S is so valuable to me. I’ve now been on No S longer than I’ve done any diet for years, or possibly ever! Like, two and a half months! 😂😊 I can’t imagine ever coming off it. It is such a relief to just know what to do, with no decision fatigue, and to be able to do it.

Thanks again for your encouragement, Linda!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9089
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if I misunderstood. Didn't mean to blah blah about me. Rolling Eyes

Good for you seeing a change to your S days that you're willing to do. Coffee drinks were my friends longer than needed, prolly, too. But I stand by them in certain situations. Or they might fly away, too.

It sounds beautiful how grounded you seem to feel in this very reasonable and long-"tested" way to live with excess food.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always good to hear from you, Oolala, and you didn’t go blah blah about yourself at all! On the contrary, it’s so helpful to learn about your long term journey. It’s because of No S veterans like you that I am aware of the dangers of premature mods/optimisation. I need all the advice and perspective I can get.

My current view of my No S journey is that even though my S days are filled with chocolate, I am still eating little enough overall to create a very small calorie deficit. So it is possible that I may lose weight very slowly, even if I continue to be uncontrolled and immoderate on S days. This thought makes me feel quite happy. And even if I lose no weight ever, I am certainly eating more normally and enjoying both meals and treats more. I’m also not feeling that creeping sense of despair, which I used to feel, knowing I was just fattening myself up and couldn’t stop. My appetite for treats and snacks had no boundaries - they had somehow been broken, and any I tried to set myself felt arbitrary and pointless.

Was tired and hungry today, but managed OK. I often had that feeling of emptiness and low-level misery that responds well to a good snack. But I just let the feeling stay and accepted feeling crap! Must go, am falling asleep. Not a super low calorie day by any means, but a green day.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9089
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning!

Neuroscientist Stephen Guyenet (and probably others) says the brain definitely has many (don't we know it) mechanisms to get us to eat to prevent starvation, but appears to have none or very subtle ones to limit overages. Good 100,000 years ago; not so good with pizza and chocolate unlimited. Wink
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...He’s definitely onto something, that Stephen Guyenet! I must get round to reading one of his books. The neuroscience of eating less is deeply fascinating to me. Gillian Riley is against rules, as they elicit rebellion, but the No S rules don’t seem to act quite like other diet rules. (Even as I write that, I wonder whether I will suddenly decide that breaking all the No S guidelines would be more fun that complying. Like maybe I’m temporarily sedated or something, and will suddenly wake up! I can quite imagine myself suddenly deciding that complying with some computer programmer’s diet plan (with no proof that it will result in weight loss for me) is an insane act!)

Touch wood, I am still ticking off the green days on my Habitcal.

I was so hungry tonight, before dinner. I’m trying so hard to do without the juice and milk in between meals. Maybe I’m trying too hard, and managing without calorific drinks is a kind of premature mod.

Weight was slightly down this morning, and although I should be relieved and pleased to go down a bit, I know that the old scale will swing up again. I’ve a long way to go before I can really say ‘I’ve lost weight’. Must do Habitcal now. Goodnight all!
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automatedeating



Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 2217

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know we are all different, but I found myself wanting to respond to a couple of your comments.

Quote:
Even as I write that, I wonder whether I will suddenly decide that breaking all the No S guidelines would be more fun that complying. Like maybe I’m temporarily sedated or something, and will suddenly wake up!


Wonderfully, I never feel rebellion against NoS. So thankful for that! Instead, it feels reasonable and fair and always ready for another try. NoS has a personality which doesn't heap shame.

Quote:
I was so hungry tonight, before dinner. I’m trying so hard to do without the juice and milk in between meals. Maybe I’m trying too hard, and managing without calorific drinks is a kind of premature mod.


I find it's really only worth it to hold out if you feel good about it -- not stressed, not trying too hard. So with the way you described it, I'd have the milk to avoid burning out my willpower.
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8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3553
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with auto. Even though I think gloing without anything between meals is a good idea, it can be helpful in the beginning. I drank mochas between meals the entire first year and gradually weaned off of it. Do it of you can but not if it’s too stressful. One thing at a time maybe ?
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Shūsaku Endō

3/14-210 lbs;
3/15- 202 lbs;
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1/18-162 lbs;
4/18-157.4 lbs


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Dalia negra



Joined: 10 Jan 2018
Posts: 198
Location: Barcelona (Spain)

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

automatedeating wrote:


Wonderfully, I never feel rebellion against NoS. So thankful for that! Instead, it feels reasonable and fair and always ready for another try. NoS has a personality which doesn't heap shame.


I totally agree with this. Today I feel hungry, but I do not feel angry with No S nor tempted to rebel, as it has happened to me with other diets.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 319
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dalia, Linda and Auto! Such helpful words - I couldn’t get to sleep last night, and was quite hungry throughout. I will take your advice in future and just get the darn drink of milk!

Weight has gone up despite my suffering yesterday! Never mind. S day tomorrow - and today I will reach for a good drink if I am hungry. I must not burn out my willpower, as Auto put it.

Hope you all have a good day!
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