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Octavia is finally checking in!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, another N day, though not a particularly good one - I had two small mugs of hot chocolate to get me through, loads of tea and coffee and a bit of juice. I felt hungry and tense a lot, also a bit light headed, though that could be because I hardly slept last night. I had had an annoying meeting at work and couldn’t switch off, feeling angry and anxious, and just couldn’t get comfortable in bed. I was hungry all night, but it was cold and I was too tired to get up and fetch a glass of milk. I hate getting up in the night - I know the insomnia experts advise you to not lie in bed tossing and turning, but I feel so desolate, weird and alone if I go downstairs and sit in the gloom! Today’s food:
B : fried egg on one slice wholemeal toast. Orange juice.
L : three ryvitas with cheese and chutney.
D: a slightly unpleasant beany vegetarian pie thing from Tesco, with mash, broccoli and peas. An apple.

I hate the empty, gnawing, miserable feeling I get, from about 2 and a half hours after a meal onwards. I’m going to go back to stocking the fridge with nice drinks, juices, kefir, milkshakes, the lot. Like I did in my first weeks. I’m not enjoying this grey, gritty feeling. I must remember that it’s order I’m after, more than weight loss - normality and the confidence that comes from knowing I’m not helplessly imposing fatness on myself by virtue of boundless snacks and treats.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hurrah, the scales have shifted downwards a little, and I have edged a little closer to normalsville. Naturally, I now feel motivated to have a slightly less mad S day...always bearing in mind that one must not react to the scale! If you eat less when it goes down, then...well most of us know that other side of that coin very well.

I ‘made’ Danish pastries this morning (from a dough kit! 😊). They are real sugar-bombs. A nice treat though. I’m really loving this sense of treating myself, guilt-free and (more) appropriately on weekends. It is such a bonus of No S. Though I think back to the week and think ‘how did I endure all that hunger, all that tension, waiting and postponing, just for this?’ Either my stomach/hormones will adapt to not eating between meals, or I must try to help myself a bit more on N days. The thing is, I don’t have a big appetite at meal times, and I don’t want to force more food in than I really want. (Is that a bit ‘intuitive eating’?) So I would rather have calorific drinks in between meals, than to train my stomach to accept more solid food. Hey, if anyone out there has a perspective on this, do let me know! Bigger meals on N days, or accept the need for calorific drinks? Or just tolerate the hunger?

One thing I’ve noticed is that I sometimes get distracted half way through a meal. Yesterday, I intended to follow the ryvitas and cheese with an apple and handful of nuts. But I got engrossed in my work at the laptop again, and forgot. Once an hour had passed since the ryvitas, I thought it was too late to have my little dessert, and it would count as a snack.

This is probably sounding like the obsessed ramblings of a lunatic dieter....’OMG! Am I allowed an apple and ten hazelnuts? Help!’ 😱 But I think I need to clock this tendency to let my mind wander back to work when it should be focussed on giving my body the fuel it needs.

Speaking of which....the Danish pastries are calling!

Hope everyone has a good couple of S days.
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milliem



Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 1171

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the distraction is something about trying to work and eat at the same time - I feel the pain of working through lunch but sometimes you just have to down tools (keyboard...) for 10 minutes and eat! I am sometimes so busy at work that I do barely have 10 minutes to sit down and don't manage to eat all my planned lunch. In those situations I might eat anything else I had planned when I get the chance, depending how long it might be until my next meal and how hungry I am.

I'm more at peace with hunger between meals now and it doesn't tend to make me too tense. It's not a disaster to feel hungry, and you can just make sure your next plate is nice and filling. I think there is something in limiting calorific drinks between meals, so your body isn't signalling 'feed me!' every couple of hours.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9357
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that you need anyone else chiming in, it seems to me that the caloric beverage is meant for exactly that kind of situation. (But getting past hunger to sleep may have had good effects, too. )

I agree that No S is so mild in comparison with so many other reduction programs that it can get around the Riley no rules recommendation. Besides, her system has two "rules, " too, which are to choose how much you will eat right when you sit down to your eating event, and to choose the next time eat right at the end of your eating event. Plus no limits on sweets. Then face the desire when it comes as being at the root of the problem. Besides the No S three-meal limit, that sounds pretty close, and freer in side-stepping some of the rebellion because of looking forward to the S events. She seems to me to speak her mind on sugar problems pretty often. She makes no bones about revealing that she eats low carb and includes potatoes in the list of major problems along with flour and all sugar. I have come to agree on the flour stuff for me, but I'm not a purist. It came over time and I think her bringing the issue up right away may be a detriment to the weaning process.

I just can't believe 'taters need to be in the same category as "processed particle foods" (my label) when eaten in the full form, not as a supremely adulterated snack food. Guyenet cites research that showed that plain potatoes were #1 in an experiment on the satiety level of about 50 foods. The most intensely flavored foods (sweet/salt) were the least.

Her main premise is that free choice is crucial from minute one. You can choose to eat, but you can also choose not to, and the power comes in making the choice freely so you aren't bitter later. Plus she reports that brain scans show that the areas of planning and future choice are activated by an active choice rather than a dictated one.
I believe some people are so convinced right away that they want to change that it constitutes that kind of choice without re-deciding every day. We all know of people who get "religion" when they have a health scare, or have such a epiphany about their eating that they turn things around overnight. I believe they are motivated by that level of inner choice so that in most cases, when the urges come, they are so convinced that it's in their best interest that they choose to ignore it without a great deal of resistance.

I suspect that it takes a very long time for her followers to get to eating moderately on a consistent basis. The reward foods are so seductive! Overeaters hate the feelings of any kind of hunger, fake or real, so much that they will do a lot to avoid it, including believing they are damaging themselves but not obeying it when it comes. But it's not personal, I don't think,m meaing it's once again a brain/habit thang. So many people on Spark talk at first about how much they don't feel like eating a certain food and later getting the yen back with little ability to face it down, or those who keep feeling it's oh so hard, which smacks of not really believing holding back is a fair imposition. People rebel against what they consider unfair, or at least resent it, so it's harder for them to magnify the positive effects, which is so useful in solidifying the new habits. I feel for them, and wish they would back off themselves until it seems truly imperative to change and not just after a binge, when the urge cycle is at its lowest ebb. They'll say so"loudly", "This is the day! This must end!" As if that means they can control whether or not they'll get the urge to overeat again. Then be so mad at themselves for being so weak. it's heartless! I think real determination rarely actually happens in that distraught state. It is better to feel calm and just very rational about it. It might start with radical changes or just giving up soda, but a lot less willpower is needed to get it and keep it going under those circumstances. IMHO.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.


Last edited by oolala53 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Imogen Morley



Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 982

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia, I've read your thread with great interest. I can totally relate to so many of your insights! One thing I wanted to mention regarding wild S-days: at my longest vanilla streak, I binged pretty much every weekend, and still lost 10 percent of my body weight without any modifications to the original rules. After some time (a year or so, I think) my NoS habits really did bleed over. Sadly, I walked away from NoS for a couple of years, so now I have to start over again and go through the wild S-days phase - we're pretty much in the same place right now! Anyway, rest assured that S-days DO get better. Don't worry about them at this point, focus on N-days. And that comes from me, a self-confessed cake addict Smile
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automatedeating



Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 2748

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Imogen, I've read your thread with interest!

I still say -- drink the drinks if you need them. You probably won't always need them.

Keep writing -- it's good stuff!
_________________
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18 - 23.8
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Imogen and Auto!

Imogen, thanks for stopping by and leaving those nice comments! I was really reassured to read that your S days were often wild. I have eaten piles of chocolate this past weekend. I hope the same thing will happen to me - that I will still lose 10% of my body weight by doing Vanilla. That would be perfect for me. It’s interesting that you were lured away after a while, but have returned. This is all very encouraging to me! You have definitely helped to firm up my commitment to just carrying on as I am doing. I am succeeding in doing the N day routine (this is miraculous to me, always a failing, half-hearted dieter). There are hints on the scale that weight may be being lost...hard to tell, as it goes up and down, and this morning I was back at my starting point! Though just two days ago I was 3lb down, which believe me was a very novel sight.

Auto, thanks for the drinks advice. Today I’m committed to not making myself suffer. If I need a glass of orange juice, I will have one.

Good luck with your Monday, everyone!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intrigued by the ‘Shop related products’ links that pop up at the bottom of the page. Today, rather than seeing diet books and sugar-free produce, Ive been offered books by great philosophers! Someone must be impressed by my check-in thread! 😂😂😂
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...just looking at my Habitcal, and I see that I’ve done 38 N days since the 9th of December, when I started No S. I’ve had 24 S days (including 2 sick days) and 4 fails. So the Ns are just in the lead. Hurrah! I wonder if there’s some sort of ‘golden ratio’ that ensures weight loss on No S? I’m no mathematician, so I will park that thought right there....😊

Today’s menu:
Breakfast - egg on toast.
Lunch - ham and cheese toastie.
Dinner - cauliflower cheese with tomatoes and a few pasta twirls.

One glass of juice, one cappuccino, and the rest of my drinks were just normal tea, coffee, herbal tea.

Wow, I used to eat so much fruit - about 3 pieces a day. I’m now getting about one piece a day, or a glass of juice. It feels like it’s enough. For me, fruit can make me feel a bit empty and gassy, and I always found myself needing a bit of cheese or some nuts to go with it. So I’m not missing it.

I’m sure I felt a bit slimmer today. But although that’s a nice feeling, I’ve learned not to pay too much attention to such things. I can feel how I like. It has nothing to do with reality. I say this because so often I feel fat, and that too is an illusion. The real question is, how’s my eating?

Oh dear, I’ve brushed my teeth and my tummy is rumbling. Dinner was 4 hours ago. Will I sleep, I wonder?
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have added: thanks Oolala for your insights back on Saturday! It is such a relief that I have found a fellow member of the ‘School for Gillian Riley Studies!’ 😉 I would love to get an idea of her success rate. Just imagine if she had a forum like No S! I bet it would be a very busy, interesting place.

Interested in what you said, that managing to get past hunger to get to sleep may have had good effects. When I’ve managed that, it’s amazing that I don’t wake up ravenous...but the stomach seem to pacify itself during the night.

Must turn out the light now...and hopefully this slight hunger will pass.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...also thanks to milliem for stopping by! You’ll be glad to know I am eating a bigger breakfast today, with two rashers of bacon, an egg, and a giant mushroom which I baked in the oven with bit of olive oil...seems to have come out quite well. I feel that I need to eat a little more at meals, not get distracted half way through the meal, and know that the drinks are there in times of real need. Part of the point of No S is that you learn to eat better st meals, knowing that you can’t snack. I mustn’t forget this.

At the moment, I’m switching back to N days with no trouble. I have no cravings for snacks or sweets, preferring to save them for the weekend...it’s like I am really learning that they can’t help me that much, and permanacking is like flogging a dead horse (real pleasure and satisfaction never actually come). Of course, this may change. I am currently in a phase of relative autonomy and low stress, with minimal disruption to my preferred routine. (An angelic choir is singing as I write those rare words!)

Can’t tell whether I’m really losing weight, though. But I’m experiencing other rewards, for sure.
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Imogen Morley



Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 982

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that permasnacking is almost never enjoyable. Wondering why we do it then? Because we're tired with exercising constant control over our eating? I've read some study claiming that we snack when we're bored, as a way to stimulate dopamine production and to break up the feeling of monotony, so it's not even about seeking pleasure.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and relating to that, Imogen, I’ve read that all stimulation is in some way rewarding. So no wonder we keep on grabbing snacks, to feel something - anything rather than the boredom and sameness that seem to offend our brains. The pleasure does end - these last few weekends I’ve found myself thinking ‘well, I’m now well and truly full, and I really don’t want any more food....so what can I do to get my fix?’ The answer at the moment on S days is to wait a while then eat again! Maybe the periods when I wait will get longer, and permasnacking will become ‘frequent snacking’ ....then ‘occasional snacking and finally, forgetting to snack! That would be amazing.

I wonder if the No S idea of fasting between meals gives me a little challenge, that is in itself stimulating and anti-boredom? I feel that something about this routine is motivating me...and it’s certainly not the promise of extreme weight loss! When I was calorie counting, that was my ‘carrot’: I sacrificed the excitement of chocolate in exchange for the excitement of getting slimmer. As I got older and weight loss slowed, motivation became elusive. Even the ‘game’ of hitting the calorie target ceased to counteract the lack of satisfaction that stemmed from eating lots of small meals and snacks every day. At that point, I really felt lost; I didn’t know how else to diet. But the psychological mechanism of No S seems to be working for me. I feel it’s changing me on a cellular level, somehow! I so hope I can keep this up. I’m definitely taking your advice Imogen, and staying Vanilla for now!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

B: big baked mushroom, egg, 2 bacon rashers
L: carrot soup, two slices of bread and butter, banana
D: Prawn stir fry, apple

No juice today, but had glass of milk before bed.

Don’t know why I’m listing my food. It’s just part of the ritual, and feels quite satisfying, now I’m only listing three eating events!

I’ve been entirely sedentary today. I started work in the morning and just ploughed on compulsively until my project was finished. Weather was very cold and wet, so not much incentive to go out. I have lapsed on my running, since the last bad cold stopped me in my tracks back in January, and I’m feeling ambivalent about starting again. I’m not sure what I was really achieving. Probably just a bit of fresh air and exercise, nothing more, nothing less.
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Imogen Morley



Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 982

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know exactly why we choose eating to stimulate ourselves, but the dopamine theory seems plausible. I've read that when boredom strikes and thoughts about food resurface, finding some dopamine-stimulating activity helps. What surprised me was that cleaning was considered one of the best solutions, due to repetitive movements (much like bringing food to mouth, which is also more or less rhythmic) and its effects that are clearly visual. I also remember seeing Tetris, puzzles, listening to music, singing, exercise, and creative work on the list. Now, if I would just practise what I preach...
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s really interesting Imogen - the idea of seeking activities with repetitive movements that create visual results! I must think of some of these. One of my problems is that in those low, food-craving moods, I feel under pressure to ‘do something proper’ - something genuinely meaningful or creative, or perhaps something that really needs to be done, such as sorting paperwork or making a difficult phone call. In fact, snacking is a great way of procrastinating. I remember once reading in The Women’s Comfort Book by a Jennifer Louden how sometimes we eat because it counts as doing something. Laying in a hammock reading romance novels doesn’t count as doing something, as she put it! It really made me think.

Part of my problem, then, is that I’m unwilling to give myself those simple, dopamine-releasing tasks that you describe, being hung up on doing something more important yet lacking the energy and resolve. This ties in with something Oolala has said, about needing to learn how to actually live, as much as how to eat. Apologies to Oolala if I have mis-paraphrased you!

But your words have reminded me that there’s value in those seemingly mundane tasks such as cleaning. I wonder, if I did more of these tasks, my morale would lift enough to get on with the more challenging stuff.

Here’s an example of my occasionally self-defeating behaviour: I’ve often looked longingly at those adult colouring books, but won’t get myself one because art is a serious hobby of mine, and I should be doing it properly. Of course I end up doing neither colouring nor serious art, but eating chocolate!!!! But colouring, like cleaning, or maybe sorting my vast collection of makeup, would be a great dopamine-releasing activity.

Ah well, better get on with my day! Thanks for stopping by, Imogen, hope your day goes well.
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worth it



Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Posts: 441

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Octavia,

Thanks for stopping by my thread earlier. I wanted to tell you that I looked up Trinny and Susannah and realized they hosted a show like we had in the US with Clinton and Stacy called What Not to Wear, which is (sadly) off the air as well. I have ordered the book you recommended (which was only sold as a used copy) and ironically it's shipping from the UK, so will likely take awhile to get here, but I'm still excited. In fact, it's got me looking into other fashion related books to help me get back some of my lost self-esteem in this area. Thanks again!

By the way, interesting topic being discussed by you and Imogen on your thread. Maybe the next time I find myself wanting to eat for boredom's sake, I will play Tetris (a game I LOVE)!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hope you like the book, Worth it! I suppose it’s a few years old now, but Trinny and Susannah were never about ‘fashion’, but shapes and colours, or ‘aesthetics’: I once heard an artist friend admiring them because of that. They are funny and self-effacing, too. You will get your mojo back! I definitely believe these things go up and down. We have never ‘lost it’ ...it just goes dormant at certain times.

I’m having a slightly strange day. Woke up after a rather disturbed night feeling a bit off-colour, and later had some unpleasant digestive disturbances! 🙁 I can’t go into any more detail! But I thought back to my mad S weekend, and wondered if the excess chocolate could be affecting me now. I often get a mild queasy feeling when I’m anxious, but on the other hand, feeling unwell can spark off anxiety. I can never tell which is to blame, physical stuff or mental stuff.

One thing I’ve known about anxiety for many years is that seemingly paradoxical things are often true: for instance, you have to worry about yourself less, yet look after yourself more. And whether symptoms are caused by mental or physical processes, you must look after yourself all the same. In a way it doesn’t matter how symptoms originated, because self-care is the answer to both.

So.... I’ve put a decent dinner in the oven, and hopefully will feel a bit more rosy-cheeked when I’ve eaten properly.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9357
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did and do plenty of un-useful things between meals. I'm pretty sure what I said was something I stole that from a decades -ago OA maxim: three meals a day and life in between. Life in between is MUCH harder than not eating!

I spent many hours watching TV, researching eating habits of traditoinal cultures' eating patterns in support of No S, as well as other topics. I avoided so many activities that others would have thought as much more productive,including me . I guess in a way I traded one obsession for another. Sure, I wish I had the housework or Great American Novel writing obsession instead! But here we are. And in the book 50 Ways to Soothe Yourself Without Food by Susan Albers she lists things like flipping through a magazine. I hope it's not one about food or the perfect body. But whatever works.

The visual element can be delightful A made bed, and empty sink. I've had more of those and they are very cool, but they haven't stuck...yet. Okay. off to do both!
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was starving before dinner, and sorted out the two little drawers of makeup I keep in the bathroom. It was distracting and fun, and is definitely a worthwhile thing to do instead of eating!

Wondering what kind of S days I will have. I have an inclination to be less wild this weekend. Perhaps I’ve really started to clock the malaise it can bring, and the way it undermines one’s enjoyment of meals. Maybe my tolerance of sugary stodge has started to diminish! This feels sad in a way! I can no longer enjoy the big dopamine hit of wolfing a huge bar of chocolate! Oh no! It’s as if sort of virtual gastric band has been out in place (hey, has anyone else tried those Hypnotic Gastric Band videos on YouTube? They help you get to sleep, I can say that for them....😂😂).

The ironic thing is, of course, I still yearn for a nice fix of some kind, and if I can’t get it from chocolate, then....I suppose I will have to become a non-addict! 😮 can I tolerate a life of chocolate sobriety? 😭
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your comment on malaise struck home. I don't know if it's accurate or not, but I had some weepy, discouraged, and weary thoughts and feelings last weekend and it occurred to me that they were similar to ones I had after active binging. It seemed very likely that the "chemicals" were a stimulus to those thoughts and feelings. I mean, if psychiatric drugs can help people stop having hallucinations or depressed thoughts, couldn't a substance bring on unpleasant ones? I already knew that they are part of the cycle, so will make the repeat behavior more likely.

I had just added to my list why I want to stay with moderation (and that now means very few S's). If the thoughts/feelings come back as strongly without the S's, well, so be it. I can still ride the waves for now. But if they don't, it will give me even more reasons to stay clear and not be as resentful because I'll see/be reminded a new/former payoff.

I find that some mediations or lectures about meditation or turning on a video of one of the spiritual teachers at night can send me off. I'm always torn because I would like the benefit of the meditation/knowledge but I sleep so little that I'll take what I can!
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 439
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Oolala. I’ve often wondered whether chocolate binges are not just a consequence of low feelings, but an active stimulant of low feelings. Putting it like that, it sounds darn obvious, but what I mean specifically is that the habit ‘knows’ that a depressed mood is the best way it can get you to indulge. I certainly started to feel that these moods were in part an illusion, a function of the ‘addiction’. Immediately after a choc binge, I used to actually feel better - but gradually, a cloud would descend, that I thought was ‘life’. It was probably just part of the cycle of my habit. I still have low moods, but I think something in my mental landscape has changed since I stopped using food treats as a crutch. I don’t feel so hopeless, as if everything is ‘crap’, if you’ll excuse my French. 😊 (it goes without saying that my life is actually one of relative privilege and comfort, and I have no right to complain!!!)

What you experienced last weekend sounds very like the sort of mood that those old bingeing habits can create. It’s certainly a reminder to stick to moderation, which you seem to do incredibly well! Hope this weekend is a more pleasant one for you.

I’m sure part of the reason that New Age meditation videos are great for sleep is that we are generally trying NOT to fall asleep when we listen! Actual sleep tapes seem to spark off a sort of rebellion in me! As the voices go ‘...I will prepare you for a night of deeeeep, refreshing, restoring, peeeeeeeaceful sleeeeep’, I am saying ‘oh no you won’t!’. Good old reverse psychology!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9357
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree completely about the low mood possibly being a reason the brain makes up to get to another binge. Though I had plenty of low moods-generalized anxiety here- my first few years (and beyond) but I saw that it only got worse later with eating, as it was rarely just a nibble. That's why I tell people on my Living Binge Free team on Sparkpeople that it is entirely possible to separate emotions from eating. They are two different issues. I used to think if the situation came up that led to discouragement, and I couldn't change the problem, I had to eat- or I should be able to. I finally saw that I couldn't wait to solve the chronic problems and I couldn't wait not to have the urges. I had to go through the experience without food. It wasn't fun! But it was better than before. It certainly didn't damage me to wait out the urges! I saw that I just had to keep getting past the peak. Giving in before that just makes it willing to get stronger the next time.
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this ties in with your two's deep discussion, but I certainly experienced a weird-ness on my drive home from a big day outing today. It's Friday, I was looking forward to pizza or MdD's or some other comfort-food -- and realizing I shouldn't do that (it's not in my best long-term health interest) sparked a seed of depression in me. It didn't last too long, but I realized my body was looking for the euphoria, and when I reminded it that food wasn't going to be it's Friday night euphoria, it felt sad.

I think refined carbs/fast food serves as my personal addiction cycle, rather than one specific refined carb - chocolate! Laughing
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ladybird30



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rarely eat chocolate, not because I don't like it, but because even a small amount gives me a lift. And of course, that means the down side after the lift is over. I prefer to keep myself on an even keel as much as possible.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ladybird, Auto and Oolala! This is surely one of our major challenges, to separate eating from dealing from our feelings. Often, it does seem as if there’s no other way to reach euphoria (to use your word, Aotomated). Can we reach euphoria another way? Or can we experience a better, deeper satisfaction than our food euphoria?

Like you Oolala, I’m currently taking a music class, but the tiny increments of achievement I experience barely match up to the big, instant, reward of a chocolate binge. I improve so gradually that I can barely feel it happening, and often there’s an unpleasant confusion, or discouragement to use your word, as I probe ahead with the exercises (I’m sure my ego is as tender as yours! 😊 ) But this is how life is, and I need to learn to make more fuss, feel more excited about my progress. Because it’s probably my fault that I downplay my achievement, by focusing on all the stuff I can’t yet do! Perhaps we can indeed learn to gain a greater sense of reward in everyday life? This is taking me back to my first ever self-help book, by Cherie Carter-Scott: ‘Negaholics’. The one thing I took away from that book is that the brain notices and replicates what we make the most fuss of...so when we fail to reward ourselves for making the bed, the behaviour is unlikely to be replicated. When we yell at ourselves for eating the chocolate, our brain somehow enjoys the stimulation, and that behaviour is more likely to be repeated.

I really need to marvel more, at the good things in my life, and even the good things in myself, instead of feeling the constant likelihood of being caught out for all my weaknesses. This is the ‘negative bias’, isn’t it? Just like we’re engineered to overeat, we are engineered to stay safe and believe that a tiger is just around the corner. Perhaps those two attitudes are equally redundant in our modern world (I know there are indeed many dangers out there, but I suspect that I can defy many of the ones I feel apply to me...fear of looking stupid, being a loser, etc etc!!!) I’m going to keep the idea of euphoria, and marvelling, in my mind today, and see if I can reverse my negative bias a bit! I reckon negativity is my way of feeling safe in the world....less likely to be caught out, taken by surprise.

My first step will be to make (a very late) breakfast, and see if I can really relish every bite.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote such a long response that I felt like I was bogarting too much (me! me! me!) and moved the post to my thread. It's certainly a repeat of what i've said there before more than once but long enough ago that it's too much trouble to look back.

Kisses to all!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooh! Am flying over to your thread to read this response. 🙂
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s been a busy Sunday, and it’s salutary to realise that the dormant cravings and capacity for chocolate quickly return, once N day rules are set aside. Just one small snack leads quickly to another. I find myself too full for dinner...so I have another snack. Then I need a boost, so it’s a sweet treat. Snacking truly does lead to chaos. It’s a downward spiral. It doesn’t require a low mood - just a snack can start off the cycle.

Today, I was tucking into a big bar of caramel filled chocolate around 5pm when DH expressed a desire to go for a pizza for dinner. We had both been working and were too tired to cook. So, I thought, shall I save this chocolate as an extra dessert for when we get home? That’s what I’d normally do. But I realised that I was nearing that danger zone, the heart rate going up a bit, the tummy already protesting at the idea of the pizza, let alone pizza plus chocolate. So I wondered whether I should throw the chocolate away: that could be a significant, liberating act! In the event, I decided to keep it in the fridge for next weekend. This is a big test for me! I mean, I could go down and eat it now! It’s still Sunday, still an S day!

But I hated going out, not really being hungry, and I felt really stressed and tired in the restaurant (DD and DH were both annoying me, and I thought the waitress was borderline rude...fortunately I did relax and felt OK as the meal went on). I skipped dessert. And now, well I think eating that half a bar of chocolate could make me feel sick and unable to sleep. I seriously do not intend to eat it. My S day is over. I have treated myself enough. It will have to stay in the fridge all week! I’m hoping it will act as a reminder of how I was able to put my body’s needs first....rather than acting as a willpower-draining temptation all week. We shall see.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm. Weighed myself this morning, and once again I’m back at my starting point, as I am every Monday. Two months and no weight loss! I would never have endured this in my dieting days! Is this normal? During the week I gradually go down 2-3 lb, then on the weekend it comes back up. Well this can’t be true fat gain and loss, can it, as that would mean thousands and thousands of calories being either burned up or ingested. Perhaps this is maintenance! Maybe I will never lose weight on No S, but just stay as I am, a mere few pounds overweight. That’s actually a good outcome, when you consider that I was in a pattern of slow but unstoppable weight gain before. On the other hand, maybe my S days will continue to modify themselves, and my ability to endure hunger on N days will improve, and I will start to lose weight.

Let’s face it, I am eating about 1,200 extra calories of treats and snacks every weekend (though my actual meals get smaller in response). It’s quite likely that this is indeed cancelling out the calories I work so hard to avoid on N days.

I’m a bit worried that suddenly the thought will pop into my head that No S is insane! Gaining and losing the same 3lb over and over again! Maybe that’s why I didn’t stick it out before. I thought I was using piles of willpower in return for no results. But something has changed in me this time. Rather than using willpower, I feel I’m gaining willpower. And there’s a quality of enjoyment in the routine that I value. The meals taste better and the treats are more valued, even if they’re not quite filling that emotional void as they used to...not working as crutches. But that’s a good thing!

Anyway...bottom line is, I feel really glad to be on an N day, knowing my gut will have a rest before lunch and again before dinner. This surely has got to be the reason I stick with No S... I like doing it!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually went out on a run today. This is the first time since I had my last cold, back in January. Somehow I didn’t get back into exercise for a long time...a bit like my experience of No S, the results of exercise are subtle, and I just couldn’t get fired up about starting again. Media images show transformed lives and bodies. My body has learned to tolerate running, and this is a sort of miracle, but it’s the same old body, same old life.

I do recognise a pattern though, that often I am drawn to do things, then decide that they are ‘pointless’. So this morning, I decided to do it just to prove to myself that I can do things! I said ‘I can and I will.’ It had no more ‘point’ or purpose than that... just to be a person who does stuff, rather than a person with a tendency to inertia. This is a good motto for me - ‘I am a person who does stuff’!!
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milliem



Joined: 20 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia wrote:
Hmmm. Weighed myself this morning, and once again I’m back at my starting point, as I am every Monday. Two months and no weight loss! I would never have endured this in my dieting days! Is this normal? During the week I gradually go down 2-3 lb, then on the weekend it comes back up. Well this can’t be true fat gain and loss, can it, as that would mean thousands and thousands of calories being either burned up or ingested. Perhaps this is maintenance! Maybe I will never lose weight on No S, but just stay as I am, a mere few pounds overweight. That’s actually a good outcome, when you consider that I was in a pattern of slow but unstoppable weight gain before. On the other hand, maybe my S days will continue to modify themselves, and my ability to endure hunger on N days will improve, and I will start to lose weight.



I am in the exact same place in my NoS journey - early ish days, no real weight loss but generally good compliance. What I'm trying to remind myself of is that NoS really is about maintenance. It's the way I want to eat for the rest of my life. Also I'm sure that I read somewhere that naturally thin people eat slightly more on weekends and adjust during the week, so I think the whole gain/lose/gain/lose of a couple of pounds is pretty normal!

I am hoping that S days calm down over the coming weeks and that eventually I won't be reaching for every possible snack and sweet treat and not eating all those extra calories. If it doesn't happen naturally I am prepared to implement some mods on S days but probably not until next month at the earliest. I'm thinking maybe allowing sweets after meals but not snacks between meals could work for me. Or no solitary snacking, something like that. Maybe a mod could work for you but many people here have advised caution in applying them too early, I suppose the danger is that it leads to feeling more restricted, and increasing risk of N day failures.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Milly, it’s good to be your No S buddy! Sounds like we are very much in the same place. Like you, I don’t feel quite ready to implement an S day mod. The N day habits are working too well for me to want to jeopardise them.

I think if I did apply a mod to my weekends, it would be to avoid snacking, and to incorporate treats into my meals. But I’m going to see if that happens naturally - I do suspect that it might.

I’m so glad to have stopped my compulsive snacking and treating, I almost don’t care if I stay this weight!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another Vanilla day. I’m struggling far less to endure the gaps between meals. I’ve been out every evening this week and have just had a small mug of milk or hot chocolate before bed. Vanilla is suiting me so well.

Sad that I didn’t get out for a run today, but I had too much work, then had to scramble to get out to my evening music class - was 20’ late. I’m reminded of Reinhard’s advice, not to hold the crazy expectation that just because you really get into some form of exercise, that time will miraculously open up for you to do it. Maybe we believe that our struggles to find time are just an excuse, because we haven’t truly committed ourselves to exercise. But no, it turns out that really, we don’t have time. I enjoy my runs, slow as I am, and I’ve started to wonder if I can indeed improve in speed and stamina, given time. So I’m motivated. But there still isn’t time. I’m not even finding time for my 14’ of anything. This is because I’ve taken on more work, out of money and career insecurity. I must try to regain my balance.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a funny thought today. I have always spurned cellulite creams and toning gels, as they are all bunkum, as we all know. BUT!!! just imagine if, instead of attempting to diet, I had put my energy into massaging in those creams and gels for a few minutes every day for the past 20 years. I bet they would have had a more positive effect than all the dieting in the world! I would now have lovely soft skin all over, and have done a bit of bending, stretching and rubbing at the same time. Where has dieting got me, except fatter? Bring on the cellulite creams!

I’m half joking of course, but today it occurred to me that it could be a fun part of my ‘14’ of anything’ routine if I rubbed some body lotion into my wobbly arms energetically. I might even go and buy some sort of fancy French toning gel! An expensive ‘creme Minceur ‘ !!! (is this behaviour covered by Reinhard’s motto ‘don’t be an idiot’?? 😂)

Am definitely developing the attitude that superficial, cosmetic instant-fixes are so much more effective (in making us feel and look better) than the hard work of dieting. I still think that vanity can be a healthy impulse - part of a natural pride in our physicality. But weight doesn’t have that much to do with it. It’s more about grooming - in an enjoyable, not oppressive, way.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the first time in two months, I’ve woken up on a Saturday morning with no impulse to eat treats. I have no appetite for them. I wonder if this feeling will last, or whether I’ll still somehow be compelled to get myself something that counts as a treat? I still have a happy, S day feeling, though. Is this part of the mysterious magic of No S?

Haven’t weighed myself, even though today is traditionally the lightest and most gratifying morning. Somehow I can’t be bothered, and it’s certainly not acting as a helpful incentive. The good news is that I don’t feel I need that incentive, as I am reaping such great rewards from the system. Mostly, really enjoying my food, and secondly, not always looking for a fix. This feels like a relief, rather than losing my crutch!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enjoy the effects as they are! There are no guarantees that changes are linear. They usually aren't! It's more about the trends. You can't really see a trend on any one or two days. But it's very good to reflect on and enjoy the pleasures you DO experience.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Oolala!

Had a moderate weekend. Am feeling at the moment that I want to enjoy my meals more than anything, so all the snacks I used to eat just aren’t working any more. I also suspect that my gut is less able to tolerate the piles of sugar and fat I used to put away. I’ve had a few delicate days since starting No S, and I’m sure it’s to do with the five days of abstinence followed by 2 days of excess. This weekend I really didn’t want to risk it!

This all seems weird and unreal to me. Surely the inevitable rebellion must be just around the corner?! Everyone knows I can’t stick to a diet!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You aren't on a diet. You're eating the way you probably would have if you had been born in a slim country. Pretend you're an immigrant holding on to your superior eating culture. Smile
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you my dear! 🙂 That’s the thing - this is not a diet. That’s why/how I am sticking to it. I’m using your motto on a regular basis - there is no S better than Vanilla No S!

In fact I feel I am being quite strict, in the Vanilla sense. No mods, not really doing anything to hurry weight loss along. Vanilla has a special sort of magic. Ive also been encouraged a lot by some of Imogen’s comments on my thread.

Weight was slightly down today, 3 1/2 lb lower than when I started back in December. If I carry on losing a pound a month, that would be absolutely amazing. But I’m trying not to get fixated on weight loss. It’s more a case of just developing a certain pattern of eating which feels like a stabilising, reassuring, sane foundation for life.

Still can’t believe this is working for me....I was always one to bargain with snacks and treats - banning them always backfired, so I used to try feeding them to myself in small measured amounts...which also backfired. But this five N days of abstinence thing has worked some sort of magic.
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Imogen Morley



Joined: 21 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very happy to see you're in this for the long term. Slow and steady wins the race! And of course, there's so much more to NoS than just weight loss. Freedom from any kind of food fixation is enough in itself for everybody who's ever tried substance-accounting diets.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Imogen! I managed to have an entirely compliant February, which tells me that I’m enjoying No S and finding it more a pleasure than a hardship. I so hope things stay like this. It’s been exciting to lose a bit of weight in the past couple of weeks, but I don’t want to let this change my behaviour and give me diet head.

Not doing too well with exercise, though. I’m a bit down about some work stresses, and feel heavy and preoccupied. It’s too cold and icy to go out for a good walk, though I did force myself out to the supermarket. I get phases when all I care about is finishing work projects, then collapsing and worrying/moaning to DH. The small amounts of surplus energy are used up in cooking, shopping, and minimal housework. All fun, creative, worthwhile, spiritually important things go down the drain. It’s like the work equivalent of Diet Head. Work Head! 😂 it’s so hard to let go when in this frame of mind. I suppose it’s my prehistoric human instincts protecting me from perceived threats. But instead of a prowling wolf, it’s the lady from the contracts department!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you see the thread on the free one-minute exercise site? I know it's just a minute, but it's so reinforcing to get a streak. There are only three moves that are free, but I'm finding many days, I just throw in a few moves that work similar muscles or ones that I use a weight with and mimic Shovelglove or something. And it keeps track for you.

I'm not even doing much walking these days with my boot/splint, but I'm getting stronger. Maybe I'm kidding myself that there is any significance to this, but it's still fun!

https://www.oneminworkout.com/
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Jan/12-26.8
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The small amounts of surplus energy are used up in cooking, shopping, and minimal housework. All fun, creative, worthwhile, spiritually important things go down the drain. It’s like the work equivalent of Diet Head. Work Head! 😂


Oh my goodness I so relate!!!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you help it if you are a mover and shaker? Cool
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Imogen Morley



Joined: 21 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a big fan of Leslie Sansone's walking workouts. They take 5, 10, 15, 30, 45 minutes, whatever you need at the moment. I'm partial to 1 Mile Happy Walk. Fun music that isn't obnoxious, and the movements are easy to follow. Even my husband joins in from time to time!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve actually got a Leslie Sansone book, Imogen! She is so warm and motivating! I need to learn to lay down my mental burden and just start moving around.

Maybe those one-minute workouts mentioned by Oolala would be a good way to get out of this inertia. Thanks for the link!

Auto, do pass on some tips against Work Head, if you have any! Could there be an Everyday System to help dismantle it?

Another stress inducing work conversation today. (Am trying to negotiate a pay rise and deal with all sorts of other contractual issues within a very large, opaque organisation). I need to learn to stop caring about getting things right, doing things properly, not making a fool of myself, and all those sorts of things. Sometimes, working out the right thing to do or say feels like looking for a black cat in a dark room. Just a load of guess work! I feel like a baby owl with its eyes open very wide, yet still unable to see anything. Enough animal metaphors....goodnight all, and happy S days!
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy S Days, indeed! I think enjoying our S Days in all manner (food, friends, family, hobbies) is probably our best strategy for dealing with our "disordered" work head. haha
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True enjoyment is indeed the key, Auto! At first, allowing myself to be distracted feels like turning my back on a sabre tooth tiger...but as the distraction (hobby/friendship, whatever) takes hold, the tiger is revealed for the phantom beast it is. If I fail in my pay negotiations, and people indeed think I am a greedy, deluded clown, this actually has no bearing on my life whatsoever...!

For the second week running, I haven’t bought myself a chocolate treat for the weekend (I always bought one, then found myself going out to buy another on Sunday...). I might go out to get something, or I might not. But I still woke with the happy feeling of freedom this morning, knowing it’s an S day!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just imagining seeing a clown walking out of pay negotiations and hearing others whisper, "How deluded and greedy can you get?" This while a lot of them have a clown suit in the closet.

I think your attitude is the right one, though. Ultimately, the quality of your life is not determined by one element. I never read of anything in the Blue Zones about those people climbing corporate ladders or having the most successful business in the area, etc. Maybe the observers just left that stuff out. Shocked
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
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Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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RAWCOOKIE



Joined: 18 Jun 2015
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Location: Cornwall, UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia wrote:
I haven’t bought myself a chocolate treat for the weekend (I always bought one, then found myself going out to buy another on Sunday...). I might go out to get something, or I might not. But I still woke with the happy feeling of freedom this morning, knowing it’s an S day!


Laughing

Can't beat that feeling - well done! I have a bar of 85% dark chocolate in the cupboard - it's Saturday evening and I haven't felt the need to open it yet. I used to fill my weekends with chocolate, crisps, sweets, biscuits. No longer.
Very Happy
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala - the image of the clown suit in the closet - fantastic! Laughing

Rawcookie - thanks for dropping by with encouraging words. I’m definitely making progress, in that the N day habits are starting to dominate. Although....I did end up getting some chocolate from the supermarket. Also had crumble and custard after dinner. But no wine or crisps, nor a second breakfast! Hurrah! I also went for a run despite the cold. Managed to keep jogging along for half an hour, plus about half an hour of walking, so that was quite an achievement for me.

Onwards!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A hugely indulgent S day, randomly snacking and eating sweets all day long. So it felt. It’s intriguing to me, how in the absence of N rules, snacking has no natural limits. It just self-perpetuates. Without N rules, it simply cannot be stopped. Or should I use will power to limit it? Would that be old-fashioned dieting? I’m waiting for my S days to tame themselves without any particular intervention. But this weekend, that seems like a very unlikely outcome.

On the other hand, only last weekend I found myself uninterested in sweet treats. So perhaps it is possible!

When Reinhard speaks of the ‘training wheels coming off’ on S days, I’m not sure I’ve quite understood that metaphor. Is he saying that the idea is to eat in the manner of an N day but without the N day rules? In which case, how can S days continue to play their role as tension-releasers, as motivators? Perhaps that will become clear as my No S journey continues...
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...perhaps a good idea for an S day mod would be to decide to use willpower on at least one occasion per day. I can’t imagine that backfiring. But then again, you never know...!
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia said:
Quote:
I’m not sure I’ve quite understood that metaphor. Is he saying that the idea is to eat in the manner of an N day but without the N day rules? In which case, how can S days continue to play their role as tension-releasers, as motivators?


I've been having this same esoteric brain teaser in my head lately too.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite all the rubbish I ate yesterday* my weight (for once) has not gone back to where I started. I’m at least 2 1/2 lb down from back in December. So my overall pattern is still downwards. I seem to be losing about a pound a month, though it’s probably still too early to track patterns.

* OK, let’s be specific about this. I had a normal breakfast. Then I ate a medium sized bag (maybe 60g?) of Cadburys mini eggs on the very delayed train home from work. At home, I joyfully tucked into a bag of cheesy Quavers. Not sure what happened to lunch....I think it was the mini eggs. Later, schlepped round supermarket and then collapsed on bed with cup of tea and a load of cheesy biscuit things (‘Cheese Melts’). A Cadbury’s cream egg then got into my mouth. Dinner was a beef stir fry, followed by some sort of small but rich chocolate mousse thing in a pot. Then, craving salt, I had another bag of Quavers (‘the cheese course’ 😂). Supper was some ginger ice cream, by which time my taste buds had really shut down. Arghhh!!!!


Embarassed
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s interesting, Auto, that you have been contemplating this, too. Maybe I’ll put the question on the general discussion board, and see what others think. Maybe we could invite others to come up with their own metaphors for S days.
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Imogen Morley



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, the fact that you start noticing excess on S-days and are bothered by it is the first step towards "normalisation" - in the sense that, perhaps soon, perhaps later, you'll want to make conscious effort to avoid going overboard. Regarding Reinhard's metaphor... I don't think his message is that the ultimate goal of NoSing is to make every day an N-day, but rather that with enough practise and solid habits in place you'll start making conscious choices whether that particular event or thing is worth abandoning the structure that's serving you so well during the week. In my opinion the ultimate goal of NoS is therefore eating out of choice (establishing a NoS habit is also a choice), not out of compulsion.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Imogen! That’s a good way to look at S days - hoping they’ll be guided by true choice, not compulsion. I think I’m edging closer to that each week. It’s as if you have to practise this cycle over and over...the five N days, the two S days, repeat, repeat, learn, learn.

I do feel quite optimistic that the new brain-wiring will set in, because it already has done on week days. So my weekends must be capable of changing, too. As Oolala has said, it’s not linear, and I’m bound to go up and down a bit. I hope at some point I’ll be able to choose freely to refuse treats on the weekend, because the N routine is simply more to my preference.

So far today....
B: one big slice of brown toast and peanut butter. Two white americanos.
L: boiled egg, one slice toast and butter, a small bowl of All Bran & milk with some chopped apple and a few nuts tossed in.
Herbal tea.

Planning to have haddock for dinner.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long, tiring day, and I feel I’ve eaten a lot.
B: toast and marmite/jam
L: 4 ryvitas with peanut butter/marmite
D 2 corned beef crisp bakes, veg, 1 potato
Plain yog and hazelnuts

Drinks: usual stuff, plus a small hot choc and a fresh orange juice
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thursday was exhausting, working all day and evening, and living off sandwiches. I stayed on-plan, though. Today I’m making an effort to feed myself better.

Weight hasn’t gone down this week so far. But I’m consistently at least 2 1/2 pounds down from when I started. Have done Vanilla for 3 months. This to me is a good result. I wonder if I’ll lose any more? Trying not to think about it. I still like the No S plan for the way it seems to pacify my brain. I suppose there are fewer decisions to make...and my head isn’t busy trying to justify and defend how I eat! That was quite tiring!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DD and DH are eating ice cream and strawberry Lindor truffles. I’ve brushed my teeth. 🙁

Thinking about how it feels to give up the illusion of rapid weight loss (in my experience, the ‘healthy’ 1-2 lb a week is rapid!) and the delusion of life being great if only one could go around in a bikini. I’ve come to the conclusion that even if I had that body, I would still be too tired and preoccupied to go around basking in wellbeing and radiating beauty.

Feeling a bit low. I don’t like it when I feel that life is running me, and I’m not on top of things. I think there’s a book called Behind with the laundry and living off chocolate - we’ll at least now I’m on No S, I am not actually living off chocolate. 😊 But I don’t feel I’m able to look after myself very well right now.

On the other hand, this busy phase only serves to remind me how unrealistic dieting was: keeping motivating images in my mind, valuing my appearance at all times...when energy goes, vanity becomes a lower priority, and there goes the diet, out the window. On No S, on the other hand, there’s very little mental work to do. I can stay on it without being particularly motivated or excited. Though it would be nice to have the energy to engage with the plan a bit more - dream up some nice treats, plan some nice weekday dinners, plan some enjoyable exercise, and yes, use a little willpower to perhaps make my plates smaller on occasion. None of that is happening right now. But I’m so grateful that I can do No S on autopilot when life gets busy.
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worth it



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Octavia,

Just wanted to say that I totally agree “the standard” for losing a pound to 2 pounds per week has always seemed very rapid to me as well. I think that while the weight-loss is a great bonus for you, the sanity and confidence you have built by continuing the No S habit over and over again is likely a better reward for you at this time. I know that probably doesn’t feel great when you were feeling down, however you are showing yourself a great deal of respect and self-care by continuing to do what you said you would do.

I hope this weekend goes great for you and that your mood lifts tremendously! Very Happy
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much, Worth it! I needed that bit of encouragement. 🙂 No S habits are really becoming second nature to me - I actually feel like it would be quite hard not to do them. And this is despite the lack of weight loss ‘encouragement’! I’m still down almost 3 lb from mid Jan (didn’t actually weigh myself at the start, in December). It would be great to lose more, but I don’t want to use mods as yet. It’s still early days for me, relatively speaking.

A nerves-inducing lunch requiring travel tomorrow has been cancelled, and suddenly the day feels different - I can take care of myself a bit more, and indeed, the recent busy period seems to be coming to an end. Hurrah!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm amazed that so many people actually do seem to be able to take care of most of "it." My older sister is one of them. Or maybe I never heard about her overwhelmed times. She worked full time as the head nurse of a county hospital while raising her kids (along with her husband) and keeping a pretty tidy, clean house. Then got a promotion and did an MBA program simultaneously and somewhere in there survived two breast cancer surgeries and chemotherapy.

Take heart-I am not she! And apparently, many women aren't, as the unhappiness level of many working mothers is statistically high. I would imagine it is not low for us singles, either. Our lives are complicated and the "Oprah" expectations are high, no matter how many times she has Brene Brown on. It's a crazy-making message.

On Spark, there used to be a woman on the No S team who would post about how she felt unsuccessful when she brought home fast food for dinner. I felt bad for her and kept telling her just to let herself have the plate of whatever and give herself time to build up a better routine for having better food available later. I know she dropped out but I'm pretty sure she didn't find anything easier, at least not in the first years after she left. I'd visit her page and see posts of similar problems.

But nearly everyone has to try almost anything that has to do with eating changes several times. Stats show it takes most smokers eight attempts before they finally quit.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Oolala! It amazes me how some people don’t seem to get overwhelmed. Maybe their lives just fit their personalities very well. I’m a sort of outgoing introvert and get tired very quickly. I need lots of down time in order to recalibrate, which is hard to explain to people, as I don’t fit the stereotype of the shy, retiring introvert. I have trouble understanding it myself!

But one thing’s for sure, I’m no longer grabbing snacks and treats to gain energy. I have to find other ways of looking after myself.

Was really pleased to see that my weight has dropped a bit more today. I know it’ll go up again, but still, the figure on the scale today was 5lb lower than my January weight. Good old Vanilla No S! I can’t tell you how grateful I am to the folks on this board who have helped me to understand the No S process and stick with it. Smile
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...meant to add, Oolala, that I too probably give the impression of never being overwhelmed, and of being a super-high functioning, always-genial career Mum. Hahaha! Only the No Sers know the truth!!! Laughing
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ladybird30



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eating for energy was one of the reasons I used to overeat. However, with No S my energy is more even, one of the benefits.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia, I did a little dance after a few months on No S. too! but I almost always kept a concept of what it would be like to be at it for one year, two years, five years. It was the only thing that I could ever think in those terms about. And I knew I had to be able to think in those terms. But I also knew I could not get there ahead of time! I had to live it out!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. The time has to pass. I’m very aware of the weeks going by. The sense of long-term commitment is nothing like my old diets. It’s sort of boring, in a way - I’m filling in green square after green square at the moment, no drama, nothing to have to grapple with, or have insights about. My journal is empty of diet talk.

I’m really aware of the moments when I would have eaten for energy. It’s still an issue - I still get a low-blood-sugar feeling, like I’m running on empty, and wonder if I ate too little for breakfast or lunch. But the feelings aren’t quite as bad as before, they’re certainly not what I’d call cravings. I hope my energy ends up being more stable, like yours, Ladybird.

I also suspect these feelings of emptiness are to do with the mild depression and anxiety I get. I get very frustrated with life and work, and helplessness sets in. But I’m more likely to deal with my problems now I’m not medicating myself with big bars of chocolate and other treats. (Though when my energy gets very low, I will have a glass of orange juice).

This is reminding me of some of the awful logic I used to employ in my days as a failed dieter: I used to think that real fulfilment was impossible to attain, so I might as well enjoy fake pleasure. That’s the voice of despair! I hope I don’t go down that rabbit hole again.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the same thing for decades. If I couldn't have the job, the man, the XYZ, the good feelings, then I might as well have the pleasurable food I wanted. I'm convinced that is a thinking pattern manufactured by the brain's desire to have access to easy calories masquerading as weak character. It's not weak character; it's strong survival drive. It's just a misinterpretation of the conditions. All addictions are basically a drive for pleasure the person either feels she can't get another way or feels is worth any painful consequences. Until they're not.

I never found the job or the man. Less overeating and being thinner doesn't solve much else. But it does solve something.

I just read a blurb by a science=y guy who said when he decided to eat less, he became willing to feel hunger and eventually came to prize it so much that it's kept him at maintenance. He eats a bit more than he did while losing but never lost his "taste" for the feeling of running on fumes, which he said isn't far from the truth since burning fat does result in a gas being released in exhaling (NOT the other kind!) I still think it takes some prefrontal cortex power to continue to value it. I'm enjoying it these days.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running on fumes - a brilliant phrase!

Yes, those ‘logical’ arguments we use...they are terrible. My thoughts were definitely similar to yours. I felt I had no access to real fulfilment, and never would, so I had to make do with the addictive cycle, its promises and rewards. I was very good at avoiding the bit where you get to feel bad - I rarely felt the guilt some people speak of, when they’ve eaten badly. I just felt relief! And yet I started to suspect that my feelings of unfulfilment were, at least in part, a function of the addiction. Sometimes, realising that fact was enough to keep me off chocolate for a while, but without the structure of No S I was still pretty helpless against the cravings. In fact the chocolate would be in my mouth before I even registered the craving.

Was just standing in the queue at the local supermarket, looking at the store’s wholesome magazine. Headlines exploring the theme of ‘Eat healthily’ ...while the whole shop is crammed with gorgeous chocolate Easter bunnies, eggs, chicks...hot cross buns...I felt a certain smugness, knowing that with No S on my side, I actually have a chance of eating healthily. Most people reading those headlines will be like I used to be, thinking ‘what a nice idea, I’ll eat more healthily’ but not actually having much of a chance. And not being able to figure out why. I feel so lucky to have got into No S!

I did buy some hot cross buns for the weekend!

Smile
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve had two big portions of chocolate today. I intended them to last the whole weekend, but couldn’t resist. I find it interesting how in the absence of boundaries, nothing will stop me getting my fix. Pre-No S, I used to think that my boundaries were completely broken - I felt almost like someone who’d got away with shop lifting once, so kept on doing it again and again - I’d broken through the barrier from normal behaviour to a sort of subversiveness that couldn’t be reversed. (NB I have never actually shop lifted...just using it as a metaphor for rule-breaking behaviour! No S has magically put my boundaries back, so i can act like a ‘respectable’ person again, regarding food...but that’s only on N days. Take those rules away on S days, and I’m a law-breaking, shameless food criminal once more. I ate the chocolate DESPITE wanting to enjoy my meals, despite not wanting to feel ill tomorrow, despite the fact that tomorrow is another S day and i could have saved the Ritter Sport chocolate peppermint bar till then....despite all those good attitudes I’ve learned over the last three months. It’s as if rules are more important to me than I ever realised. But I can’t just randomly add more rules to my life- it won’t work. It has taken such fortitude to learn to obey the simple N day rules. I know how much seriousness and commitment I’d need to make more boundaries, more fences. Changing one’s behaviour is like waiting for drips of water to erode stone. I’ve seen what it takes and I’m excited that it’s possible, but oh, how hard it is, how long it takes!

Anyway, I’ve just had a mad S day....I suppose that’s pretty normal!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...the thing is, though, I don’t feel discouraged by this chocolate fest. I actually feel I’ve learned something important - that instincts, insights and attitudes cannot be relied upon to change behaviour. Well not mine, anyway. I need rules and boundaries, and where these have been broken, they must be re-erected. My entire lifestyle is governed by a lack of discipline, a craving for freedom...it’s a miracle I get as much done as I do...I badly need rules, and to struggle to keep them, until they become habits.

I sometimes suspect that I worked too hard in my 20’s and 30’s, and put myself under too much stress, trying to achieve things that didn’t come easy to me. I suffered from anxiety a lot, then was seriously ill in my late 30s...and somewhere along the line I came to mistrust the idea of putting myself under pressure. I wanted fun, and an easy, flowing life. But now, I’m returning to the idea that I need to put myself under a little pressure - like learning the N day habits - in order to achieve anything worthwhile. Perhaps begin a new everyday system with a traffic light Habitcal. This might not be a new S day mod - I’m still not too concerned about my S days - it might be an exercise habit, or sleep, or water, or a creative activity. I feel excited about the idea of trying this.

But I mustn’t get excited in a diet-head sort of way.

Was reading some of Chotzinoff’s thread recently, and finding much to relate to.

Anyway, speaking of sleep, I have to get to bed! Goodnight all.
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MaggieMae



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia, I just caught up on your thread and we have soooo much in common! I'm doing better this time because I'm not worried about weight loss. Your first post about finding weight loss being like finding a unicorn cracked me up! That's how I feel. My son also suffers from insomnia, and he's5 years old, so when he's up I'm up . hope that gets straightened out for you. I know it really affects my mood and resolve.
So many great conversations on here! Keep up the good work.!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's any consolation, and not that you were actually thinking this, but continuing to have the desire for ultra seductive foods is a very natural biological drive, or so claimed by neuroscientist Stephen Guyenet and some others in the past 10 years of so who have written on the manufactured food industries' intense research on the exact combinations that will exploit the brain's predilection for nearly effortless calorie consumption. It's a total hijack.

S days could stay rather wild until it looks more painful to put up with them than to use taming mods. It's hard to force that readiness. Health scares are the most common ones to work fast. Sometimes a super relevant factoid can work. I called them epiphanies, and epiphanies are serendipitous, i.e., unsystematic, by nature, though calm observation and scanning for relevant information can support their emergence. But I suspect that sometimes less "gnawing" on the topic can be helpful, too. I think N days are a subset of less gnawing.
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Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for dropping by, MaggieMae and Oolala! Today has been a bit less wild. No chocolate (as yet...it’s freezing cold outside and I ate my supplies yesterday!!). I think my S days will stay wild till I instigate a mod: processed foods are indeed designed to cause gluttonous madness. Only an intervention will stop me eating them. But I’m afraid to dabble with the magic formula of No S, which is working so well for me. I’m eating less rubbish across the course of the week; the insane, out of control feeling has gone, and weight loss is no longer a complete unicorn! (Glad my unicorn metaphor made you laugh, Maggie!)
I would now compare weight loss to a wren...tiny, shy, fleeting, coming and going! Not something i can control...it’s nice to see, but there are other, significant rewards from No S compliance. I’ve certainly given up my former position ‘I will eat healthily as long as it makes me lose weight.’ That was another example of really damaging logic. When I realised I had to eat better REGARDLESS, I made a big step forward.

Insomnia is hideous - I really sympathise with your current situation, M. I’m doing better right now, but it comes and goes. I’m drinking camomile tea during the day, which seems to calm me and have a knock-on effect for the night. In fact I’m quite a convert to this yellowish, weak and vaguely unpleasant beverage! Hey, I can see I’m selling it to you here... Laughing
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ladybird30



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia wrote:
My entire lifestyle is governed by a lack of discipline, a craving for freedom.



Octavia, I've never liked being told what to do, so the thought of handing over control of my eating and my health to food manufacturers who care nothing for me personally sparks those rebellious feelings. That's one reason for me to stay away from highly processed food.
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MaggieMae



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That tea sounds sooo tempting. Lol. I've never been a big fan of tea but I can tolerate peppermint tea or cinnamon apple tea. The problem is I drank so much of it when I hadthe flu a few months ago that I now cant stand the thought!
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Larkspur



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading about your struggles with anxiety. It's funny, that what got me into the pool and to Zumba this week-- not because it's Good for Me, but because it helps so much with my free floating anxiety.

Sleep well!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Larkspur! I slept well, thanks! Anxiety, what a beast it is. I started with it quite suddenly in my teens, after a nasty stomach bug and disruption to my periods, and have limped on and off with it throughout my life. I think mine began as randomly strange brain wiring, in the wake of being weak, ill and hormonally off kilter, but it’s not long before confidence is lost, and then other troubles begin. Once you realise that strange things keep happening to you, and you quite naturally dread them, then the vicious cycle is in place....tension, adrenaline, strange symptoms, rinse, repeat. Bewildered parents who just want you to get better already don’t help: fear of rejection sets in. But I’ve educated myself, and I deal with it quite well. Not many people know I suffer, and if I mention it, people are quite often very surprised. They imagine that anxiety sufferers must be mouse-like, or perhaps chicken-licken-like, creatures. I try to help other people whenever I can, and that makes me feel better!

And you’re right, exercise does help.

Today I’ve been really aware of how I used food to self-medicate (not for anxiety, but just feeling low). I’ve had a few low moments today when I just knew that a hearty snack would give me the lift I needed. I’ve no doubt that it’s true. But I can’t do that now.

Basically I just had a day when I couldn’t get going. But I did eventually: did a bit of household stuff, sent a painful email (invoicing someone for a job that didn’t actually happen cos it was cancelled at the last minute), then began a work project. And now, I want to think of more Everyday Systems to help me with my various challenges. Now that I know what rigorous training it takes to acquire a good habit, I feel better armed. Previously, I was always having bright ideas about life improvement, but none of them ever came to anything. Using No S as a ‘paradigm’, to use that wonderfully academic word, I feel I can now achieve much more.

Hurrah, it’s dinner time - I have survived!
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really enjoyed using Reinhard's ideas for walking, and his system for keeping track of daily and longer-term to-dos, etc.

Now I use Google Keep in a similar way to the index cards he used.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Google Keep - must check that out. Thanks, Automated!
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worth it



Joined: 01 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia,

I love how you said that “rigorous training is required to build a habit.” I have been thinking about that topic so much lately and realize that wasn’t always so obvious to me. It’s almost as if I’ve discovered some kind of secret and use the examples I hear about on this board as a kind of a pep-talk when I feel like quitting something new I’ve started.

On another note, I’m sorry to hear you also suffer from anxiety and agree exercise is so helpful.
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Worth it!

I’m still working on a document with a list of the new habits I need to cultivate. It’s quite a long list, though many of the habits are related and could be linked together. But I know that I must be absolutely committed to trying each one, and that I will have to overcome major resistance...new habits will feel as inconvenient and insane as delaying meals/avoiding snacks felt on No S for a long time. But as you say, Worth it, the deep challenge of habit-forming wasn’t obvious to me for a long time - I used to think that habits should be formed quite easily, and if I didn’t manage to do it, then perhaps it wasn’t the right habit....or I’d just got distracted. Realising the truth has been quite revolutionary to me, too! At least now, I’ve a small chance of success, as opposed to being set up for guaranteed failure! I’m massively grateful to Reinhard for teaching me this life lesson.

Oh dear, I wish my weight would shift a little. After briefly dipping last week, I’ve returned to the set point of the week before. I’m stubbornly doing Vanilla, feeling I’m not ready to introduce mods, though I’m more tempted to do so. Inventing mods has a nice creative appeal....but it takes more than creativity to establish a new habit, as we all know...

I don’t want to sacrifice the non-weight loss benefits I’ve gained so far.. The feeling of regaining a sense of much-missed routine. The cessation of exhausting, self-respect-sapping food bargaining, denial and self-justification!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have I already recommended that you look at Reinhard's podcasts? Some of them are more devoted to habit formation in general. At least one deals with how many habits to target, and another is called Chain of Command- intriguing idea.

I think how long it takes depends on the habit and how many smaller opposing habits we may not by aware of are affected that may be complicating things.

I read a book recently on substance abuse that reported an interesting distinction between having a global /future outlook vs. a local/right now outlook in behavior change. Local behaviors are the ones that give immediate satisfaction. They may or may serve us in the long run (global outlook), but as long as we think they are doing that, we keep doing them. They may start to get in the way of important global desires we have, such as disrupting family life, or getting more serious about career, etc things that take behaviors that the drug blocks. (Family, career, and avoiding problems with the law were the most common global concerns that got the drug abusers to quit. And most did it all on their own.) The author said that the problem when we decide to change local behaviors is that commonly, it's more unpleasant up front to give up the ingrained habit than to just keep doing it. Many people want the global stuff, but since they usually haven't experienced the pleasant results of it yet, and it becomes unpleasant, sometimes very unpleasant to not get the upfront pleasure (otherwise known as immediate gratification, which in my mind doesn't get across the truth that we get real pleasure, ingrained as a brain pattern that we will MISS), they cave when the new behavior is a drag.

This is all a way of saying that most habit changes will take effort up front. We have to really believe that the new global condition is something we really want, something that makes the unpleasant times worth it. Not all habit changes are going to be worth it. We may find that the problem doesn't actually bother us as much as we thought and it's too uncomfortable to get to it. I say I'd like to do my dishes (no dishwasher) every day, which I believe will bring me the global result of the pleasure of seeing a clean sink, but at this point, it's worth the comfort of not doing them and seeing themin the sink in the morning. I think once I get more of my decluttering done, doing them will go up in value.

The struggle comes when we keep torturing ourselves because we don't want to admit that some supposedly desirable global is not worth the unpleasantness. We forget to think, "Am I going to get value out of this a little/lot later? Is it really so terrible? Is it really too much to ask right now in exchange for what I want?"

That's a lot of thinking, but if we can't just do the behavior we say we want to do, it's likely thoughts of it being too hard are underneath.
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There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have been listening to Reinhard’s podcasts! Went back to the earliest ones, where he talks about habit-building. Really inspirational. Thanks for the reminder, Oolala.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I’d be more moderate today, but no, it’s been a typically festive S day with chocolate as a snack, and two desserts, one after lunch and one after dinner. It’s possible that I haven’t snacked quite as much as I used to do, though: no nuts, crisps, wine or biscuits. Possibly a step in the right direction!

One good thing is that I’m thinking of doing Weekend Luddite. I tend to think in terms of trying to DO creative things, rather than avoiding doing pointless things. I always thought of internet browsing as relaxing and informative, but have I really benefited much from it? Well I found No S, so it’s not all bad! But perhaps if I stayed away from the iPad as much as possible, I’d get on with better things more easily. Today I have read more of a novel (usually I’m too twitchy and keen to solve my problems to settle into a novel...it’s become harder and harder to relax and focus). I’ve also started a creative project. So I think I will pursue this, and resist my urges to go searching online for ‘solutions’!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve had a nine week streak of total compliance! Today was a red, though. DH and DD wanted to go out for a meal. I was starving so relinquished my plan of having two poached eggs for dinner! We had a lovely meal in our favourite restaurant. I had a starter and main plus two glasses of wine. But I didn’t have dessert, which is quite unusual for me! I was genuinely stuffed, in fact I didn’t eat all my main. But it was a fail. I was too hungry to stick to a single plate in the restaurant - the others were having starters and I was practically eating the table cloth. Anyway, I note that Reinhardt says two fails a month is OK!

I am four pounds down from my first weigh-in, back in January. I feel as if my body is made of stone, and No S is a drip of water....making an impact with painful slowness. But the calorie deficit I’m creating is pretty small. In fact I guess that I’m eating 1700 cals on an N day and 2,300 on an S day, so about 1900 on average per day. That strikes me as a fairly ‘moderate’ number of calories, though I don’t know how much lower it can take my weight. Unless I eat less, I may be stuck at this point. Hard to tell. I’ll just have to continue in the same vein, doing Vanilla, and maybe reassess when I reach 6 months.

I had to have my photo taken for work today, and couldn’t believe how fat I looked. Quite depressing. But then, I’m probably brainwashed by magazine images. Or am I remembering my former self? (I used to be about a stone lighter, and a curvy UK 12). There was a stylish younger woman at the photo shoot who described herself (in passing) as a UK size 18. I was surprised - she looked mainstream-attractive and I would have guessed she was no heavier than me, a size 14. For a moment, I thought ‘why am I bothering with this?’ when a woman can clearly be heavy and beautiful. But weight on me is not the same as weight on her. And besides, No S is a system of enhanced food enjoyment, not just a weight loss method!
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff, Octavia. This is one of those posts you'll probably want to reread from time to time!
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Friyay



Joined: 23 Mar 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia wrote:
I am four pounds down from my first weigh-in, back in January. I feel as if my body is made of stone, and No S is a drip of water....making an impact with painful slowness.


Still making an impact though, and that makes it worth it. Better than gaining!

It must be a comfort to be sure that your weight will travel downward. I'm only on day 8, and sort of nervous to see where I am a month, two, three months from now.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Friyay and Auto! I’ve been looking back over my whole thread recently, and it is encouraging to see how I have changed, and my weight has indeed gone down. I’ve learned so much about habit building! I now want to put this learning to further use and build better sleeping, waking and exercising habits. A phrase stuck out for me in Reinhard’s book - where he said how some people don’t even have their basic habits sorted, eating and sleeping, then they wonder why they have difficulty with more sophisticated stuff. Ouch! That hit home! I needed to read it! I am that person - I can’t get to sleep, can’t wake up. Though the eating thing is now sorted, in that I seem to be a successful No S-er, happily sticking to the habit. So, sleeping and waking are next. Linked to these are internet browsing - I’m doing Weekend Luddite, but I am becoming aware of how my browsing habit impacts my settling down to sleep, and then during the day stops me actually taking action about things. I’m always looking for better solutions and greater insights. Even now, when I’ve written this post, I’m going to put the iPad down and go and do something else.

Good luck with your No S journey, Friyay!
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worth it



Joined: 01 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octavia, that is so awesome about using a No S system to work on your sleep habits! I’m looking forward to hearing about it.

You and auto will have me motivated to start trying out some other ones myself!

Wink
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...here I am, on the internet again! But learning to stay off it more.

Already gaining feedback about my new habit ideas. Trying to get up earlier and do a longish run or walk first thing is not quite working. The exercise yesterday made me late with some work, then hurried and stressed, and I had one of my stressed-tummy incidents, which bring on anxiety attacks. It wasn’t anything major, but I felt a bit unpleasant for a couple of hours. So today, I have not done my morning exercise thing. I was overdoing it. It wasn’t moderate enough: Reinhard is always right!

I didn’t eat a proper dinner, and today my weight is significantly lower! The scale says I have lost 6lb since Jan. Of course that’s not really true, but it was nice to see that low figure this morning! A bit of a boost after I felt low yesterday.
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worth it



Joined: 01 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay Octavia! A six lb loss, whether temporary or not is awesome to see! How motivating to keep you going on No S!
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve has a more cheerful day - didn’t feel like eating much, and to my amazement my weight has dropped to half a stone less than my starting point! This is miraculous. When you consider how much chocolate I’ve put away in the last three months, on S days! I’ve had as much as I could wish for! And yet, my weight has been dropping. I wore a new dress tonight, in a wrap style, and felt I had some of my former curviness back.

Vanilla No S has a magical power. But I think if I were to modify it in any way, I would go for IF. Now I’ve trained my body and mind to go without food for a few hours, that can easily be extended, on days like today when I’m not very hungry. I’ll consider including that in my routine in the future. For now though I just feel amazed that No S has worked for me!

My getting up, going to bed and exercise plans need rethinking. It’s back to the drawing board...to come up with something more subtle and moderate.

For the first time in years, I enjoyed choosing an Easter egg for myself the other day, and proudly sitting it on the kitchen worktop, waiting for Easter Day. This felt like the innocent enjoyment of childhood. For years I have dreaded Easter and tried to ignore all the eggs. It’s wonderful knowing I don’t have to ignore them or eat them ‘by mistake’!!! I might crack it open tomorrow! It’s pretty big though, so I won’t be eating it all at once. Indeed I might share it. Surprised
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Worth it, for cheering me on! Have a great weekend.
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automatedeating



Joined: 31 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy Easter Octavia! Enjoy that egg!
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Auto! Hope you have a great Easter too.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had my egg. It wasn’t quite as enormous as it first appeared - the box was massive! Have enjoyed my usual treat-filled S days.

Slightly worried that I’m going away for three days - one of them includes a big family meal, our Easter get-together...so I’m calling it an S day. The question is, can i keep the other days green? Answer: no. My mum is already talking about making desserts to go with the other meals. She is tiny and frail, and will use the last of her strength to make these highly-processed sweet concoctions. So maybe the REAL question is, will I succumb to WTH!!?? And eat chocolate biscuits in between these enforced desserts?

If I just eat the desserts, I won’t actually be overeating very much. They won’t be big, luxurious desserts. But I won’t be green, either.

No point getting frustrated about this - it’s a normal part of life.
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