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The Blessings of Simplicity - Fasting for Weight Loss
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

September, 2017: The Blessings of Simplicity starting May 21, 2017

Month 1: May 21, 2017 - 226.0
Month 2: June 1, 2017: 223.2 (month high: 224.8; month low: 221.6)
Month 3: July 6, 2017: 222.0 (month high: 224.4; month low: 219.4)
Month 4: August 1, 2017: 224.2 (month high: 224.2; month low: 221.0)
Month 5: September 6, 2017: 222.6 (month high: 224.4 ; month low: )

Weight Summary
Day 104 – Friday, September 1, 2017:
Day 105 – Saturday, September 2, 2017:
Day 106 – Sunday, September 3, 2017:
Day 107 – Monday, September 4, 2017:
Day 108 – Tuesday, September 5, 2017:
Day 109 – Wednesday, September 6, 2017: 222.6
Day 110 – Thursday, September 7, 2017: 222.2
Day 111 – Friday, September 8, 2017: 222.8
Day 112 – Saturday, September 9, 2017: 223.6
Day 113 – Sunday, September 10, 2017: 223.0
Day 114 – Monday, September 11, 2017: 224.4
Day 115 – Tuesday, September 12, 2017: 224.6
Day 116 – Wednesday, September 13, 2017: 225.0
Day 117 – Thursday, September 14, 2017: 225.2
Day 118 – Friday, September 15, 2017: 223.8
Day 119 – Saturday, September 16, 2017: 223.0
Day 120 – Sunday, September 17, 2017: 223.0
Day 121 – Monday, September 18, 2017: 223.8
Day 122 – Tuesday, September 19, 2017:
Day 123 – Wednesday, September 20, 2017: 224.0
Day 124 – Thursday, September 21, 2017:
Day 125 – Friday, September 22, 2017: 224.4
Day 126 – Saturday, September 23, 2017:
Day 127 – Sunday, September 24, 2017: 223.0
Day 128 – Monday, September 25, 2017: 223.2
Day 129 – Tuesday, September 26, 2017: 221.4
Day 130 – Wednesday, September 27, 2017: 220.8
Day 131 – Thursday, September 28, 2017: 220.2
Day 132 – Friday, September 29, 2017: 221.6
Day 133 – Saturday, September 30, 2017:

Journal
Day 104 – Friday, September 1, 2017:
I am giving up following the SET guidelines as I recognize that they take the focus off fasting. Last night, we got in too late for me to have dinner, and that is OK. I can manage. What I do not want to do is justify having breakfast because I was following the SET guidelines.

Day 108 – Tuesday, September 5, 2017:
Best meal of my life was Sunday night. I was so stuffed I did not eat until 4 pm.

The Wall Street Journal had an interesting article on how to overcome temptation: set up guidelines ahead of time for dealing with temptation. That is what I am doing by eating within an 8 hour window. Yesterday I had one salad at 4 and past of a soft pretzel at close to 7. By 11 today, I was hungry but held off eating until 11. I am learning to not satisfy hunger immediately.

10 PM and home from Boston: I realized that the 8 hour window is necessary for me because my schedule is so variable. Things will settle down now, with Ellie now the only kid at home.

Day 109 – Wednesday, September 6, 2017: 222.6
My weight went up but not very much given that I was at a five day celebration with unbelievably good food -- like steak, crab cake, lobster... I bet my high weight for this month will be no more than 223.0. Progress is slow. I have to be patient.

Day 110 – Thursday, September 7, 2017: 222.8
My weight is up, but I am happy because I woke up feeling physically miserable due to having eaten so much. I do not want to eat that much again today. Why did I eat so much? Stress. A check to the U of M took so long to cash that I stopped payment on it and then it posted. Tom's job is not going well. We are swamped with bills because of Anne's wedding and Tommy's tooth. The house is totally disorganized: I just got the camping equipment from our trip in late August downstairs for Tom to put away. Eating as a sedative is a bad approach. I need to take a deep breath and deal with one issue at a time and let Tom deal with his job. I went to the gym this morning and did three minutes of fast walking plus walked an additional 20 minutes. At not quite 9 AM, I am at 5,000 steps.

Day 111 – Friday, September 8, 2017: 223.6
I was paging through a book by Peter Kreeft on virtues and vices and looked up gluttony. It was interesting what he had to say. He said that the Lord does not recommend dieting. Instead, our faith has always recommended fasting and feasting. Here's the problem: too much feasting. I have too many weekend nights when I eat past 7 and some weekends when I eat before 11. What I think I'm going to do is simply add on weekdays when I fast from dinner to dinner and define dinner as what is in front of me before I take one bite.

Nice try. I'm getting close. It has been so nice to not monitor how much I eat and just eat as much as I want, but I'd also like to lose some weight.

Day 112 – Saturday, September 9, 2017: 223.0
I pulled out the Jason Fung book on fasting, and the recommendation if you are not losing weight is to mix it up: try different lengths of fasts. Today Tom gets on a plane and returns Friday. Ellie is in school all week. This is a good week to try having one meal per day on weekdays like Jason Fung does. I may not last. I may just go to 3. I may just do it on Monday. We'll see.

Day 114 – Monday, September 11, 2017: 224.4
I was in a feeding frenzy all weekend as I prepared for a change in diet. The authors of the book Intuitive Eating call this "Last Supper eating". Stupid. I hope I now see my problem, which is that my body goes into survival mode when I look to diet or even change fasting. I need to be committed to this easy approach. My walking was great up until yesterday, averaging about 12,000 steps per day. Yesterday, I walked under 3,000. Time to commit...

We were in Boston last week because my sister and brother in law had put down deposits on all sorts of activities as part of a wedding celebration but then my niece delayed the wedding. Tickets to a specific ballgame can only be used for that ballgame. My sister invited us out. The parents and grandparents believe this relationship is doomed even though the couple is now on the European cruise that was supposed to be their honeymoon.

At some point, you either stop or commit.

My saga of dieting is not similar, but I would say the same is true for my decision to fast: I must commit or I might as well stop.

I commit.

Day 127 – Sunday, September 24, 2017: 223.0
Our dog is really sick. She normally weight about 10.2 pounds and is down to 7.8 as of this morning. I had her to the vet twice last week and will get the results of testing tomorrow. They think a kidney infection or kidney failure based on preliminary tests.

It is not good to be super busy. You tend to drop the ball on something. Pepper started to lose weight in late August but I was distracted by getting two kids to college and going to Boston. We had not been able to find her regular dog food so I thought that was the cause. By the time I got her to the vet, she was really sick.

Which brings me to thoughts about dieting.... I need habits that are easy to follow. I have developed a habit of fasting but think it is healthy but not sufficient for me to lose weight so I'm going to add the SET guidelines.


Day 129 – Tuesday, September 26, 2017: 221.4
Poor baby. I took her to the vet yesterday, since she has vomited so much since she got her medication. They took another blood test and pumped her with fluid and an antibiotic that lasts 7 days. Last night, the vet called to say she either go immediately to the animal hospital for a fluid IV and get an ultrasound tomorrow or she should be euthanized today.

Then I talked with my sister and concluded that there are two concerns with the animal hospital: one is cost, and one is misery/potential benefit of treatment. Poor little girl would be without family and hooked up to an IV. I decided to call on money and it was $1,000 - $3,000 per night with the vet suggesting a minimum of a 3 night stay. No. We can't do that. I took her into Katie's room and slept with her last night. Tom wants to see if the antibiotics she got yesterday work, since she could not vomit them up.

So today, she wanted to eat, and her weight is up to 8.0 pounds. She is very lethargic. I brought Katie home last night to say her good byes, and she took Pepper for a walk but did not make it very far.

I can look back in shame at how busy this summer was and how I did not realize how sick Pepper had become until it was too late. We changed dog food because we could not find her original dog food, and by the time we found it and thought she was cured, we realized it was not the dog food. Two kids to college, Katie home from camp, Tommy's dental implant, a new car, Boston for a non wedding.... it was one long rush, and I dropped the ball on the dog. She should have gone to the vet in late August.

I don't hold out hope for the antibiotics to kick in, although Tom doe shave a point that she was throwing up the oral antibiotics. I asked the kids to pray to St. Francis.

So I cannot beat myself up, but I can say I'm not focusing on dieting anymore. I'm focusing on life. I am going to continue with the fast (eating window of 11 AM to 7 PM) and that's it. Nothing else. I will work on exercise but nothing else regarding food.

So sad. So terribly sad. This was our dog. We had dogs growing up, and it was very sad when they died, but this one is my responsibility and I blew it. I cannot go back in time. All I can do is what we think is best for her now, and that is to feed her what she wants (not the low protein mix prescribed by the vet but meat) and see if the antibiotics will help. Terribly sad... Such a joyful, cuddly dog. I am grateful for the years we have had with her.

Day 130 – Wednesday, September 27, 2017: 220.8
Ellie got home from school, and she looked at Pepper and said she was worse. Her stomach was growling, and her bladder was full. We took her to her favorite walking path and called to euthanize her. She was scared because we were crying, but she was with us and we were saying "Good girl" and the shot is in a catheter so it is not painful. It was the right decision.

So -- what else have I missed in life? What else am I not grateful for, do I assume I will always have? Tom's 10 PM flight to Omaha got cancelled last night, so he came home after 10 and woke me up at 5:30 to say good bye as he was to catch a 7 AM flight.

I have a different perspective on life. That little dog gave us much, and I never really appreciated it.

Day 131 – Thursday, September 28, 2017: 220.2
I think I'm going to lose weight now that I have given up on doing anything to control my weight except by eating only within the 11 AM -7 PM window when socially feasible.

I miss Pepper. One daughter set up a folder so we all could contribute pictures of her over the years. She has been a big part of our lives for many years. The late, great Kirby Puckett once said, "Tomorrow is not promised to any of us." I expected her to live at least several more years. For a small dog, she was only middle-aged.

Day 132 – Friday, September 29, 2017: 221.6
The house is quiet. It is incredible how painful it is to say good bye to a dog. Now I face a beautiful day but no dog to walk. As a favor to a neighbor, I walked her dog during the day from January until a child moved home in late August. She said to go ahead and walk her dog whenever I wanted during the day. That was kind of her.

I am going to try to fast until noon on Fridays and Wednesdays in October and see if stretching to a later time twice per week is a good idea. I am shamelessly tapping into a Catholic fasting tradition. I grew up hearing the Biblical readings on fasting and thinking they were so outdated and incorrect given our great scientific knowledge. Now I'm thinking it's the scientific knowledge that needs updating.

Day 133 – Saturday, September 30, 2017: 221.2
Sometimes, I eat after 7 PM for social reasons, so I think I am going to just try to fast for 16 hours past when I last ate, if possible. Generally, I will fast 7 PM to 11 AM but that is not always possible.

11:45 AM: Wow. I quickly learned it is easier to fast between two times than it is to fast for a certain length of time. I just ate a ton of food because I had to wait 1/2 hour past 11, and I didn't even make it to the 1/2 hour! No, I am going to stick to a 7 PM to 11 AM fast time and, if I don't make it, well, I don't make it.

Well, well, well... I found the scientific reason for the success of a Catholic fasting schedule that has fasting to 3 PM twice per week and not eating until noon most days. It is from this Website:

https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-hunger-fasting-17/

In short, you eat for two reasons: you condition yourself to eat at certain times (like Pavlov's dogs reacting to a stimulus) and you eat because you are hungry.

Varying the hours of fasting leads to conditioning yourself to only be aware of physical hunger.

I learned from this morning to set hours for fasting, and I think I am going to move to typically 7 PM to 11 AM except on Wednesdays and Fridays when I fast until 3 PM. That was medieval Catholic practice, and I think modern science is just beginning to find wisdom that was in medieval Catholic practice.


Here is the entire article:

"Does fasting increase your hunger to unimaginable and uncontrollable dimensions? This is often how fasting is portrayed, but is it really true? From a purely practical standpoint, it is not. From my personal experience with hundreds of patients, one of the most consistent, yet surprising things reported is the reduction, not an augmentation of hunger. They often say things like, “I thought I would be consumed by hunger, but now I only eat 1/3 of what I used to, because I am full!” That’s great, because now you are working with your body’s hunger signalling to lose weight instead of constantly fighting it.

The number 1, most common misperception of fasting is it will leave us overwhelmed with hunger and therefore prone to severe overeating. Thus you get pronouncements from ‘experts’ like “Don’t even think about fasting, otherwise you will be so hungry that you will stuff your face full of Krispy Kreme donuts”. Funny enough, these ‘experts’ often have zero experience with fasting either personally or with clients. So why does it seem so reasonable?

Approximately 4-8 hours after we eat a meal, we start to feel hunger pangs and may become slightly cranky. Occasionally they are quite strong. So we imagine that fasting for a full 24 hours creates hunger sensations 5 times stronger – and that will be intolerable. But this is exactly what does NOT happen. Why?

Hunger is, in fact, a highly suggestible state. That is, we may not be hungry one second, but after smelling a steak and hearing the sizzle, we may become quite ravenous. Hunger is also a learned phenomenon, as demonstrated by the classic experiments of Pavlov’s dogs – known in psychology as Pavlovian, or classical conditioning.Pavlov2

In the 1890s, Ivan Pavlov was studying salivation in dogs. Dogs will salivate when they see food and expect to eat (unconditioned stimulus – UCS) – that is, this reaction occurs naturally and without teaching. In his experiments, lab assistants would go in to feed the dogs and the dogs soon began to associate lab coats (conditioned stimulus -CS) with eating. There is nothing intrinsically appetizing about a man in a lab coat (yummy!), but the consistent association between the lab coat and food paired these two in the dog’s mind.

Very soon, the dogs began to salivate at the sight of the lab coats alone (having now been conditioned) even if food was not available. Ivan Pavlov, genius that he was, noticed this association and started to work with bells instead and before you know it, he was packing his bags to Stockholm to get his Nobel Prize and taste some of those oh-so-delicious Swedish meatballs. By pairing bells and food, the dogs began to anticipate food (salivate) at hearing bells alone without the food. This was the Conditioned Response

The applicability of this Psychology 101 lesson to hunger is obvious. That is, we can become hungry for many reasons – some of which are natural (smell and sizzle of steak) and others which have become conditioned into us. These conditioned responses can be very powerful and cause great hunger. If we consistently eat breakfast every single morning at 7:00, lunch at 12:00 and dinner at 6:00pm, then the time of day itself becomes a conditioned stimulus for eating. Even if we ate a huge meal at dinner the night before, and would not otherwise be hungry in the morning, we may become ‘hungry’ because it is 7:00. The Conditioned Stimulus (time of 7:00) causes the Conditioned Response (hunger).

Similarly, if we start to pair the act of watching a movie with delicious popcorn and sugary drinks, then the mere thought of a movie may make us hungry even though we have already eaten dinner and would normally not be hungry. The movie is the conditioned stimulus. Food companies, of course, spend billions of dollars trying to increase the number of CS that will make us hungry. The Conditioned Response is hunger – for popcorn, chips, hot dogs, sodas, etc.

Food at the ballgame! Food with movies! Food with TV! Food in between halves of kids soccer! Food while listening to a lecture! Food at the concerts! You can eat with a goat. You can eat on a boat. You can eat in a house. You can eat with a mouse. Conditioned responses, every one.

How to combat this? Well, intermittent fasting offers a unique solution. By randomly skipping meals and varying the intervals that we eat, we can break our current habit of feeding 3 times a day, come hell or high water. We no longer have a conditioned response of hunger every 3-5 hours. We would no longer become hungry simply because the time is 12:00. Instead, we would still get the unconditioned response of hunger, but not the conditioned one. That is, ‘you get hungry because you are hungry’, rather than ‘you get hungry because it’s noon’."
_________________
Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.


Last edited by Kathleen on Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

October, 2017: The Blessings of Simplicity starting May 21, 2017

Month 1: May 21, 2017 - 226.0
Month 2: June 1, 2017: 223.2
Month 3: July 6, 2017: 222.0
Month 4: August 1, 2017: 224.2
Month 5: September 6, 2017: 222.6
Month 6: October 1, 2017: 222.0

Weight Summary
Day 134 – Sunday, October 1, 2017: 222.0
Day 135 – Monday, October 2, 2017: 224.6
Day 136 – Tuesday, October 3, 2017: 223.6
Day 137 – Wednesday, October 4, 2017:
Day 138 – Thursday, October 5, 2017: 224.0
Day 139 – Friday, October 6, 2017: 223.2
Day 140 – Saturday, October 7, 2017:
Day 141 – Sunday, October 8, 2017: 224.0
Day 142 – Monday, October 9, 2017: 223.6
Day 143 – Tuesday, October 10, 2017: 222.2
Day 144 – Wednesday, October 11, 2017:
Day 145 – Thursday, October 12, 2017: 222.6
Day 146 – Friday, October 13, 2017: 222.0
Day 147 – Saturday, October 14, 2017:
Day 148 – Sunday, October 15, 2017:
Day 149 – Monday, October 16, 2017:
_________________
Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.


Last edited by Kathleen on Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 885
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kathleen,
I somehow missed your posting last month. I'm sorry to hear about your dog. I agree, our four legged friends sure do add a lot to our lives that we don't even realize till their gone. We also are in the kids-off-to-college stage of life. I totally understand how you just didn't realize how sick she was.

Hope the fasting goes well for you this month. I'm working on fasting as well but I'm just fasting between meals and after dinner Wink

Have a nice day,
Virginia
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8159
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've been at this for 11 years. Maybe you've been TOO patient.

There is nearly NOBODY who loses weight without weaning themselves off eating just because they want to or because it's a social situation or they're stressed, or tired, etc. Slim people rarely change their eating for these things, and don't regard it as some terrible deprivation. You say it yourself over and over that you regret nearly every time you don't stick to your plan or eat until you're stuffed. What the Catholics meant as feasting is WAY less than feasting today.

I've seen you wrestle with this so much. I wish you could either really do it or just let it go. What do you think it will take?
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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~reneew



Joined: 02 Oct 2008
Posts: 2183
Location: midwest US

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woah. That was quite harsh!
I see soooooo many similarities between Kathleen's thinking and my own. I have been here that long also and I think it's more of a strong will to not give up. Her strength and perseverance is what it's going to eventually take to beat this.


This noS chat group is meant for encouraging people.
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I guess this doesn't work unless you actually do it.
Please pray for me
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8159
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll let Kathleen decide.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The truth hurts. Maybe I need to focus on eating to satisfaction rather than to stuffed. At any rate, what I've done so far hasn't worked.
Kathleen
_________________
Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8159
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're doing things that aren't part of your plans, then it's hard to say they haven't worked. I don't think any plan you've tried advocates eating to stuffed. (Fast 5 allows it, but that's predicated on keeping exactly to the plan for an extended period of time. Even then, it isn't foolproof.)

What do you think will help you choose NOT to stuff yourself? Are you convinced that doing that is too restrictive? Any body that is used to that feeling isn't likely to naturally be satisfied consistently with less. It would take SOME times of wanting to eat a lot more and just not doing it. Is there anything that would make that worth going through? What pleasure could you get in life by giving up SOME pleasure in eating? Or does it appear to be only sacrifice with no worthy reward?
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53,

It's not a matter of pleasure in eating -- of that I am sure. I do not know why I need to eat to stuffed. It's like having a car in overdrive: you need to do something to get it out of overdrive. I am going to try eating only within a 1 hour window on days that I am able to do so without other noticing.

What I have speculated about eating to stuffed is that satisfaction comes from detecting a change in fullness. If you eat when not hungry, you need to eat to stuffed in order to detect a change. If you eat when hungry, you detect a change when you reach satisfaction.

Kathleen
_________________
Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8159
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kathleen, if you feel my post was too strong and you'd like me to remove it, I'd be glad to.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. It's fine. I feel like I'm on a hamster wheel. Disruption is good. Thanks,
Kathleen
_________________
Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 885
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kathleen,
Quote:
I feel like I'm on a hamster wheel.

A hamster wheel is a circle and a circle can be broken at any point. If you can't break it during the eating event, perhaps it can be broken elsewhere. What do you do after you overeat to the point of pain? Do you behave in a predictable manner afterwards? Do you use the same self-talk over and over? How do you interact with Tom and Elle afterwards? Could it be possible to address the behavior rather than the eating in order to stop the hamster wheel?

I know you've tried many eating plans and each one seems to be more restrictive than the last. Maybe it isn't really the eating that needs to be addressed, perhaps it's some other aspect of your life and the eating is simply the manifestation of that.
Quote:
. I am going to try eating only within a 1 hour window on days that I am able to do so without other noticing.

I kindly recommend that you not do this. It seems painful and punishing and quite frankly, if the other fasting attempts have failed then why would this one succeed? Isn't it easier to fast only between meals? I know the overeating remains a problem for you. I can only suggest that you cook the exact amount you,Tom and Elle need for that one specific meal. You can't overeat eat what's not there.

kind regards and warm wishes to you this week.
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerpie,

I did not last one day with eating within 1 hour. I'm realizing that I can only go so far with a healthy habit and then things fall apart: 10,000 steps as a goal, not 12,000; fast walking 3 times per week, not 5; fasting 16 hours per day, not 18 or 20 or 23...

Any sort of restriction of quantity always leads to binge eating. I am done with trying that. What do I do after I overeat? I go on with my day.

oolala53 asked: "What do you think will help you choose NOT to stuff yourself?" Good question. The answer may be those SET guidelines: sitting down to eat, eating without distraction, and taking hand or utensil away from food while eating. If I had to choose between eating and reading the Wall Street Journal, I may choose the WSJ. Do I know that for a fact? No, and guess why? I don't last very long following them because they are a pain to follow. Maybe that's a clue that they could be effective in having me eat less without actually restricting quantities. I still have a choice, but the choice to overeat comes with a cost of being bored because I am eating less quickly than normal.

This week, we go to Indiana to see Anne in her new home. I'd like to not be concerned about diet. I can just try following this until we get back next Sunday and see how it goes.

In May, we had four kids and a dog at home. Now we have one social daughter (she was dropped off at noon and will be picked up at 9 tonight), my husband is traveling every week, and the dog had to be put down. I am bored. This past week, I painted Katie's room. My life is very different now from even two months ago. Still, my weight is within a range of 219 - 226 with most of the time between 222 and 225. Bored or swamped: it doesn't matter. My weight is steady. How do I get out of this trap? Maybe slowing down eating will allow me to not want as much.

Comments on my thread are always interpreted as ones of concern and care. Thanks.

Kathleen
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Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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osoniye



Joined: 22 May 2010
Posts: 1218
Location: Horn of Africa

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kathleen- Maybe this would be a good time to take up a new hobby that would get you more active and around new people? Just an idea.
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No Added Sugar. No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".
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navi



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LONG POST AHEAD ALERT!

Kathleen, I'm a long time NoS lurker, but I rarely post. I first want to say that I admire your openness and honesty as you work through this. I too rebel against restriction - I am not much of a sweets person, but the "no sweets" aspect of NoS ironically had me craving sweets and making sure I crammed in as much as possible on the weekend, to shore up against the coming week without. Thus, one of my first mods was to ditch the No Sweets aspect, as that was not really my problem. Some would say that I could work in steps and add that in future once I got the other aspects down. But if I never had a problem with sweets, why would I do that? Why mess with my instinctive moderation around sweets by adding any restriction at all?

Even without restricting sweets, in the 8-odd years since I discovered NoS, I too have NEVER been able to comply. I, like you, have tried keto, various forms of IF, etc. etc. etc., had moderate success with the dreaded calorie counting, and it always all invariably fell apart. I even tried "instinctive" eating or whatever that is called - FAIL. So I do understand your struggles.

About two months ago I had an epiphany of sorts - I cannot explain how or why it came about, but I wanted to share my story with you so that you can see that things CAN change, by looking at the example of someone so very much like you. Not that you should take my path, but that you can have hope that one day you just might find your own.

BEORN'S KITCHEN:
It seems that I just got tired of thinking about food food food food - what kind, when, how much....and one day, I thought up something I call Beorn's Kitchen (Hobbit reference - the book, not the movie!). Essentially, I imagine myself to be a hobbit on a long journey. I get up, have some toast or other small meal with coffee before heading off into the forest. I must walk long hours until I arrive at Beorn's cottage. I am hungry at this point but have to wait until the meal is served, and can then eat with joy and friendship with my fellow travelers and host - but not too fast or too much, or Beorn will not approve! Then off to do some work for the rest of the day, arriving back in time for dinner. Again, I treat it as a celebration, enjoy it immensely, and am thankful for such a meal after the long day. This is followed by relaxing in front of the fireplace (imaginary - work with me here!), and at some point I enjoy a small dessert before heading to bed. Nothing else though - I do not want to risk the wrath of Beorn by raiding the kitchen between meals! If I feel particularly famished during my long walk through the forest during the day, I allow myself a small snack from my pack or I can gather berries along the way (second breakfast!). Usually I do not do need to do this - I want to preserve what little food I have packed for the journey in case I need it in the days ahead. On celebratory occasions, I can feast! Finally, I am not a vegetarian, but I lean more and more towards fruits, vegetables, and grains with very little oil or meat, as this is the way Beorn eats. As you might have noticed, this is more or less NoS with mods (occasional snacking, dessert in evening), with urban ranger (the journey) thrown in for good measure. I did not intend it to be so - I was not even thinking of NoS when I started on this path!

I realize that all sounds extremely silly, but I HAVE LOST 8 LBS and counting in 7 weeks! More importantly, I have 100% peace around food and eating for the first time in 35 years. I think I came to a point where I was just DONE with the struggle, and approaching nourishment through a fantasy lens allowed me to change my relationship to food in a profound way, that has had real consequences. I now eagerly plan my meals, look forward to eating, and even enjoy the hunger along the journey. I love snack food, so I'll often have a handful of crackers and cheese with my meal. I love starch and for the first time I allow myself to eat it guilt free. I too loved that stuffed feeling - I eat a small breakfast (toast & cream cheese usually), moderate lunch (usually too busy for more), and then a largeish dinner. I eat a lot of salad and vegetables along with the rest of the meal - so I do feel quite stuffed after, without eating excessive calories (I do NOT count calories, or even estimate). I did not intend to stick to one plate of food but for some reason (8 years of lurking here?) I have gravitated towards the one plate. Dessert, once I began the habit, has been getting smaller and smaller, sometimes just sweetened herbal tea. I use habitcal, but as long as I follow the spirit of Beorn's Kitchen the day is GREEN - there is no difference for me from weekday to weekend (if anything, on the weekends I get up late and skip breakfast). If I need second breakfast or a small snack (this is rare), the day is still GREEN as long as I followed the spirit of Beorn in my decisions. As of today I have 7 full weeks of green green green, it is so lovely to look at! Finally, I am often alone as my husband is working in another city, and on those occasions I sometimes imagine Beorn and the Dwarves around me at the table, which somehow makes me feel more relaxed and content during the meal.

Long story short, I feel your struggle. This is the first time I have shared this - no one in my "real" life knows that I am on this journey. I am sharing this here because I thought that my story might give you a bit of hope that normal eating can be achieved, once you find the "key" to what works for you. In my case it was changing my ideas about moderation - moving away from viewing it as something that was imposed on me (the rules), and instead immersing myself in a story line where moderation is part of the role play.
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ironchef



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 1593
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, navi, as a huge Tolkien fan that really spoke to me! Thanks for sharing 😀
A few years ago I used the Eowyn Challenge website to “walk to Rivendell” and re-read the first book of LotR alongside. It really changed my morning walk to imagine myself trotting along with hobbit ponies are racing to keep up with Strider!
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navi



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ironchef, I am going to have to check that out....

Edit to say - that website is fantastic! I'll need to get a pedometer, and find my old copy of the hobbit, but I am definitely in!
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Larkspur



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Posts: 275
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Navi, I love this. Thanks for sharing.
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Navi,

What a fantastic story! I had thought that there was a universal way to lose weight and I was determined to find it and model this approach to my children.

Years and years later, I am humbled to realize that we each have to customize an approach for ourselves.

Today is yet another Day 1 for me -- at 223.0 pounds. I tried following those SET guidelines and succeeded on Monday but failed miserably yesterday. I'm going to really focus on them going forward because I think they will help me to stop binge behavior.

Years ago, I read a post here that was someone's observation that people who follow No S and binge every weekend end up not succeeding. My weight isn't really the problem. It's a symptom. I think the problem may be that I eat a lot in a short period of time (binge behavior) for reasons that are completely unknown to me. Years ago, I read that the best way to overcome a bad habit is to create a different habit incompatible with the bad habit. Well, the SET guidelines make binge behavior impossible. Eating a large quantity of food in a long period of time just does not satisfy whatever need I have to binge eat. So - I'm going to focus on this habit, added to other good habits I have developed which have not resulted in weight loss: fasting 16 hours per day, walking 10,000 steps per day, strengthening exercises, etc.

Thank you for your inspiring story!

Kathleen

Weight
Day 1 – Tuesday, October 17, 2017: 223.0
Day 2 – Wednesday, October 18, 2017: 222.6
Day 3 – Thursday, October 19, 2017:
Day 4 – Friday, October 20, 2017:
Day 5 – Saturday, October 21, 2017:
Day 6 – Sunday, October 22, 2017: 221.8
Day 7 – Monday, October 23, 2017:
Day 8 – Tuesday, October 24, 2017: 220.8
Day 9 – Wednesday, October 25, 2017: 221.4
Day 10 – Thursday, October 26, 2017: 222.4
Day 11 – Friday, October 27, 2017: 221.6
Day 12 – Saturday, October 28, 2017: 221.6
Day 13 – Sunday, October 29, 2017: 220.2
Day 14 – Monday, October 30, 2017:
Day 15 – Tuesday, October 31, 2017:

Journal
Day 6 – Sunday, October 22, 2017: 221.8
We were supposed to visit Anne and Tony in Indiana, but Tom missed his flight and could not come. Ellie and I got in last night at 1:30 AM. Tom had gotten a puppy I had seen online! What a wonderful surprise!

I am finding that following the SET guidelines is somewhat difficult because binge eating satisfied a need. What it is I do not know, but I am going to stick with these SET guidelines and see what comes of it.

As for the puppy, awww.... It is so soon after Pepper's sudden illness and euthanasia, but maybe it is for the best... Coming home to an empty house was so sad. Pepper will always be special because she was the dog of our kids' childhoods, but sometimes you need to face the end of a chapter in your life. I'm rambling. The SET guidelines are just the means for something else to change in my life, something other than my weight and eating habits. I have some theories but nothing more.

Day 8 – Tuesday, October 24, 2017: 220.8
I have tried following the SET guidelines. What I have not tried doing is combining fasting with following the SET guidelines.

Day 11 – Friday, October 27, 2017: 221.6
I was discouraged yesterday because my weight had gone up to 222.4, over the 222.0 benchmark that I have for a normal weight range of 222.0 - 224.0. I gave up on following the SET guidelines.

Then, as I was raking leaves ahead of this morning's first snow, it occurred to me that I have been trying to avoid eating instead of focusing on what I want. And what did I want? The feeling of lightness. I could give other terms like a feeling of energy but light seemed to fit best what I wanted.

This past week has been both difficult and thrilling for me. I have occasionally awakened with my back hurting but it went away within 15 minutes or so. When I was in Indiana, my back hurt on Friday. By Saturday, it hurt so much I did not walk much and then decided it was the hotel bed and drove straight home despite having a nonrefundable hotel room. We got in at 1:30 in the morning.

This whole week, I've had to bend over because of the puppy, and I've had Aleve for the first time in my life. Tom has been out of town, and Ellie mostly has been in activities or work that kept her after school until dark. It was up to me to rake.

I realized in one moment that losing weight isn't really about losing weight: it's about feeling good. It's about a feeling of lightness and functionality. I felt heavy raking because I had eaten a lot after giving up the SET guidelines and thinking I needed a new plan.

No new plan. I think that fasting has led to this moment. It's occurred to me previously that dieting is about "portion control" which creates a false binary: either you starve and are miserable but thin, or you binge and are fat but not starving. Fasting opens you to the possibility of eating to satisfy. You learn that a little hunger actually is pleasant.

I have a memory of that from childhood -- a memory of a little hunger being a pleasant reminder. "Hunger is the best spice" was a saying I got from a diet book I read years ago, and it's true. I never allow hunger to come but have eaten first. Fasting is getting me over that very bad habit.

Day 12 – Saturday, October 28, 2017: 221.6
osoniye brought up the idea of a new hobby. Yes, well, she's 4.2 pounds, and her name is Pumpkin! It was brilliant on the part of my family to get me a puppy, as I was devastated by Pepper's sudden death. Pumpkin cannot take the place of Pepper. She is a whole different dog. I cannot imagine losing a child. I cannot imagine....

Day 13 – Sunday, October 29, 2017: 220.2
Now that I am online looking for puppy supplies, I'm getting suggestions of dog videos. One was of an abused dog getting love for the first time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WChyGkBPvZI

It is heartbreaking. It is a good emotional equivalent to my body reacting to a "portion control" diet. My body has been abused by constantly shifting rules but the most detrimental one has been to limit portions based on some external measurement, not on how hungry I am.

I am starting to figure out that the effect of an 11 - 7 eating window is cumulative. I didn't stick with it last night and didn't even mark it in any way. As long as I am following it on most days, the impact will accumulate over time to dampen my appetite. Why? I think it is because the French are right that "food creates appetite" and the obverse is also true: "fasting decreases appetite".

It seemed to me a pretty good bet that the findings of the National Weight Control Registry would help me to lose weight, and one of the findings is that you should eat breakfast. Well, that is the path of those who obsess about food 24 X 7.

Day 14 – Monday, October 30, 2017:
I think I'm just going to weigh myself once per week. The daily weigh-in is an opportunity to reconsider my approach to weight loss, and I am set. I may even weigh myself just once per month. Time is what I need.

10 PM: I ate too much today because my body is telling me I ate too much today. Ick. Fasting helps me to realize when I am eating more than what makes me feel good.

Day 15 – Tuesday, October 31, 2017:
I woke up this morning feeling lousy, and there was no need to step on the scale: my body is already telling me I ate too much yesterday. The scale is a distraction. This approach of having an 11 - 7 eating window is similar to intuitive eating, which was a failure for me. The difference, and the reason why I think I will succeed in losing weight with a fasting approach, is that I get to experience what it feels like to not be stuffed -- and it feels better.

6 PM: Wow. First Holloween alone. Last year, Katie, Ellie, Anne, and Tom were all home, and Tommy was at college. Tonight, Tom is in Omaha for work, Anne is in Indiana, Katie and Tommy are away at college, and Ellie is at a band function. I will pick her up at 7. How my life has changed! My weight has stayed stable through many changes.

8 PM: What if I suddenly stopped overeating just like I suddenly stopped drinking coffee?
_________________
Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.


Last edited by Kathleen on Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:54 am; edited 21 times in total
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navi



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kathleen, we're all rooting for you!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8159
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't mean what strategy would make you willing to eat less even when it's hard, I meant what OUTSIDE your eating habits would make it worth it to challenge your fear of "restriction?" Not being a slave to whims and random eating? A comfortable feeling in your stomach instead of feeling stuffed? A vision of yourself playing easily with your grandchildren? A release from the repetitive misery over the issue?

The "why' is usually even more important than the what. Reinhard I think was more motivated by the concept of moderation defeating overconsumption than by weight loss. He just couldn't accept the life of overeating.

What do you want enough in your life to commit to seriously reducing your consistent overeating? If there isn't anything you truly believe you are now or could later miss out on if you continue, it's unlikely any of the plans will work to have you face that there is likely no plan that isn't going to ask you to give up some eating.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

navi,
Thanks. I still have hope that I'll figure out something that works. Your story was very inspiring.
Kathleen

oolala53,
It's not that I am unable to identify motivation to reduce overeating; it's that food restriction leads very quickly to binge behavior. Binge behavior is not something I can control. I have tried. I've even read AA's The Big Book and other addiction books with no sense of how to get off this hamster wheel. The SET guidelines are a pain but they do prevent binge behavior. I need to see if they result in less food intake.
Kathleen
_________________
Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

November, 2017: The Blessings of Simplicity starting May 21, 2017

Weight
Day 16– Wednesday, November 1, 2017:
Day 17 – Thursday, November 2, 2017: 220.8
Day 18 – Friday, November 3, 2017:
Day 19 – Saturday, November 4, 2017:
Day 20 – Sunday, November 5, 2017: 222.0
Day 21 – Monday, November 6, 2017: 220.6
Day 22 – Tuesday, November 7, 2017:

Day 1 – Wednesday, November 8, 2017: 220.0
Day 2 – Thursday, November 9, 2017:
Day 3 – Friday, November 10, 2017:
Day 4 – Saturday, November 11, 2017:
Day 5 – Sunday, November 12, 2017:

Day 177 – Monday, November 13, 2017:
Day 178 – Tuesday, November 14, 2017: 219.6
Day 179 – Wednesday, November 15, 2017:
Day 180 – Thursday, November 16, 2017: 220.8
Day 181 – Friday, November 17, 2017: 220.6
Day 182 – Saturday, November 18, 2017: 221.4
Day 183 – Sunday, November 19, 2017: 221.0
Day 184 – Monday, November 20, 2017: 220.4
Day 185 – Tuesday, November 21, 2017:
Day 186 – Wednesday, November 22, 2017:
Day 187 – Thursday, November 23, 2017:
Day 188 – Friday, November 24, 2017:
Day 189 – Saturday, November 25, 2017:
Day 190 – Sunday, November 26, 2017:
Day 191 – Monday, November 27, 2017:
Day 192 – Tuesday, November 28, 2017:
Day 193 – Wednesday, November 29, 2017:
Day 194 – Thursday, November 30, 2017:

Journal
Day 16– Wednesday, November 1, 2017:
I am going to listen to Jason Fung's Aetology of Obesity lectures on obesity again, this time with a different perspective. I've had so many "got it" moments that I need to wait and see if I actually have gotten it, but this experience now reminds me of suddenly giving up coffee last year. Coffee became not worth it. I figured that out when I was so concerned about getting just the right dose of caffeine at just the right time during our trip to Yellowstone. We stayed at Mammoth Spring Hotel where you cannot have coffee makers in the room because the hotel is so old that you could blow the electrical wiring. There was coffee in the lobby, but that meant I had to shower and dress first before going to get it -- and it wasn't exactly Starbucks quality.

What? In the middle of this beautiful scenery, with elk literally right on the lawn outside the hotel, I'm most concerned about my coffee? Maybe it was there I started to figure out drinking coffee just isn't worth it.

Overeating just isn't worth it.

Day 17 – Thursday, November 2, 2017: 220.8
I was thinking that there would be some dramatic change like there was when I went from having coffee every single day to never having coffee, and so I think I was preparing myself for that cliff by eating everything in sight, including Holloween candy. When I stepped on the scale this morning, it was with the decision to go over that cliff. I was shocked, literally shocked, that my weight was at 220.8 instead of somewhere in the 224 to 225 range. Why? Well, I think I know why. I may decide to eat until stuffed, but stuffed comes sooner. Fasting limits how much I can overeat.

I had my monthly personal training session with Kayla yesterday and told her I think this will be like losing coffee. She said it looks like you will gradually lose weight over a long period of time. Yeah... reality check... I did not like that and ate more after I got home from personal training.

Now, this morning, I'm thinking weight loss as a goal could use some benign neglect. It is actually counterproductive to try anything in addition to fasting, at least for me, at least for now.

A second coat of paint needs to go up in the laundry room, and the puppy needs play time. I like the idea of benign neglect for a weight loss goal!

Day 18 – Friday, November 3, 2017:
Over the past couple of days, I have listened to the first two of Jason Fung's Youtube videos "The Aetology of Obesity". I went to bed last night feeling somewhat sick. While I have listened to these videos previously, the message didn't really sink in. Now the message has sunk in because I can understand with the experience of fasting. Basically, the drive to eat has to do with insulin levels in the body. Fasting lowers insulin levels. I am realizing that I still eat to stuffed, bu the experience of stuffed itself has changed.

Day 21 – Monday, November 6, 2017: 220.6
I was wrong. It is not fasting and only fasting. In fact, it is really just ending overeating and fasting helps.

oolala53, I don't fast with rigor. If I eat past 7 PM, that is OK by me especially on the weekend. Yesterday, for example, I just didn't eat right at 11. I'm not even tracking when I start and stop. Instead, it is just a guideline.

The real problem is I overeat, and the solution is to not overeat. The problem is how I measure that. That is what I need to figure out.


Day 1 – Wednesday, November 8, 2017: 220.0
I couldn't walk much for a time because my back started hurting when I was in Indiana. Last week, I told Tom I am not sleeping in that bed until we get a new mattress. The mattress was a wedding gift from my parents 24 1/2 years ago. My back has gradually been feeling better to such an extent I am thrilled to be out raking leaves. In the meantime, I managed to lose my pedometer.

I've also been somewhat housebound trying to get that puppy to be housebroken. I've been watching Fung's Youtube videos on The Aetiology of Obesity and almost through the fifth one. Yesterday, I resolved to let the exercise go and just focus on fasting. For the moment, there is enough exercise in my life with raking, painting, and training a puppy.

Fung's theory is that people overeat because their insulin levels have become elevated, often from eating a carbohydrate-rich diet. Fasting is the cure. I do feel better not eating breakfast, but my weight is somewhat stubbornly in the obese range. What to do? I think I'm going to step back from exercise and take it easy and just eat one meal per day when it is not noticeable to others. That should be rather easy to do during the week. I'm also going to drink one tablespoon of apple cider vinegar diluted in one cup of water as the last thing I have around 7 PM at night.

I think fasting is going to be easier than 10,000 steps per day.

12:30 PM: Ugh. I've long maintained that obese people are gullible rule-followers, but I didn't know why. After slogging through all six Youtube videos on Aetology of Obesity by Jason Fung, I now know that that is true. We fatties have followed the elites' advice to cut calories, eat several meals per day, go low fat... I heard "Fat makes you fat" and "You cannot deny the second law of thermodynamics" by my father.

It never works for me to make dramatic changes in lifestyle. I found my pedometer and am putting it back on. I'm going to fast until 11:30 instead of 11. It turns out it is much more effective to have 18 hours of fasting with 6 hours of eating rather than 16 hours of fasting with 8 hours of eating. I'll try to move towards that.

Day 2 – Thursday, November 9, 2017:
The other day, I bought Trader Joe's coffee ice cream, which I have come to think of as being my favorite food. I had some, and it didn't taste all that great.

Why? I've been thinking about what I learned in the Fung Youtube videos, and I think I may know why. If the body is not in a fasted state, then glycogen is being used for fuel. That's sugar. If the body is in a fasted state, then fat is being used for fuel. Is it possible that the body starts to prefer fat if there are periods of fasting?

I don't know. I'm going to stick with no food restrictions whatsoever during my eating window and see what happens. Through the end of this month, I'm only going to try for an 11:30 AM - 7 PM eating window.

If I don't stay within that window, that's OK. It can happen. I'll just do my best.

Day 4 – Saturday, November 11, 2017:
I got invited to join the Dr. Jason Fung Fan Club on Facebook, and there is a lot of good information there. One person was asked if she just fasted to lose weight or needed to control calories when she was not fasting. She replied that she was as likely to lose weight by just fasting as she was to win the lottery.

Well, that is my theory -- that all I have to do is fast, and my food choices will switch naturally. The fact that Trader Joe's coffee ice cream did not taste so great was encouraging to me. Maybe my taste in food is changing with fasting.

I do feel impatient and so am thinking I will switch to a 1 - 7 PM eating window from an 11 AM - 7 PM eating window immediately.

Day 5 – Sunday, November 12, 2017:
I'm somewhat disgusted this morning, having read some more on fasting and how insulin levels drop most precipitously when you fast 18 -24 hours. Why am I disgusted? Well, what did Catholics in the medieval period do? They generally did not eat breakfast and fasted twice per week, on Wednesdays and Fridays. I've been following bad medical advice (eat low fat, eat frequently, count calories) for 40 years when the answer was in my faith, although my faith has abandoned the practice of fasting except twice per year, on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Fasting until 1 every day makes eating lunch with others difficult. I think I'm going to shoot for a 12 - 7 PM eating window on most days and then gradually work my way towards a 6 - 7 PM eating window on Wednesdays and Fridays.

There is still a commitment to not restrict my eating when I do eat, and I am encouraged by changing tastes. I had almonds the other day that tasted great. For years, I avoided nuts because of their high calories, high fat, and low volume. It turns out nuts are really good for you.

Bad advice. My problem has not been low willpower or some sort of emotional response to life. It simply has been that I have followed bad advice.

Day 177 – Monday, November 13, 2017:
Ellie made Toll House cookies yesterday, and I had a couple and thought: yuk! My taste in food has changed. I didn't lose much weight since May 21, but I think that was the start of this diet because that is when I started fasting consistently, and I bet it was the consistent fasting that led to my change in taste.

Day 178 – Tuesday, November 14, 2017: 219.6
I have been eating everything I want, including those Toll House cookies. I think that fasting impacts appetite and that is why it works. I am gong to be very relaxed in how I approach fasting in that I don't worry too much about not actually sticking to my eating window. Instead, I'm expanding the fasting period to noon most days and 6 PM Wednesdays and Fridays so that I can still lose weight even if I routinely eat outside that window. Last Friday, for example, I ate at 9:30 PM and had breakfast fairly early. Since then, I've followed the window.

I've also joined a couple of Facebook groups on fasting. In one, the question was whether you should focus on the eating window or the fasting period. One person insisted the key to success is to focus on the hours that you fast. I tried that and found that it just gave me the excuse to open the eating window earlier because I could just close it earlier. That did not work for me!

What I find works for me is to focus on the eating window. Every single day, I can eat as much as I want of anything I want but just for a limited period of time. Today that window is 12 - 7 PM. That is a long time. I can shove whatever I want into my gullet. My gullet wants less.

Weighing myself every day turned out to be a daily opportunity to change what I am doing. I think it best now to weigh myself infrequently so that I don't see the natural ups and downs of weight.

7 PM: I forgot to mention that I have a retractable measuring tape, and my waist is down from 44" to 42". I have a long way to go to get to a normal waist size. When I was single, it was irritating to wear dresses with belts because I always had to use a safety pin to pin the belt way over since my waist size was 24". What happened? What happened? Yes, 4 pregnancies, but could it be that fasting will get my body back toward a small waste?

Day 179 – Wednesday, November 15, 2017:
I just plain feel good today! It is my first day of trying to fast until 6 PM. Over the last week, I've come to realize that there is a definite changing in my taste in food, and maybe that means that the long slog of eating 11 AM - 7 PM only has finally paid off. I did just need to be patient!

I am not sure if a daily fast with eating only 12 - 7 PM would result in weight loss. It may be that this fast is a daily maintenance routine. My guess is that I need the longer fasts to lose weight, and I hope that I get comfortable with them quickly.

Brad Pilon of Eat Stop Eat recommends one or two 24 hour fasts per week. I figure I can shoot for two and hope to have at least one.

I'm going to use the old Catholic way of fasting as mostly my guide because I suspect it is the most reliable. That may mean I fast more in Advent and Lent but probably not this year since I am just now working myself up to the weekly fast schedule during "ordinary" time. What I will allow myself is no fasting at all on Sundays or the time between Christmas and New Years or the time between Easter and what is now Divine Mercy Sunday.

The scientific pros got it wrong: eat low fat, count calories, restrict portion size, etc. BUNK. I'm not trading one scientific pro for another.

7 PM: I lasted not eating until 5:20 and then there was a feeding frenzy until Tom got home about 6:15. Salad. Peanut butter sandwich. Cheese. Toaster strudel. Soup. Cottage cheese. Yogurt. Basically anything that I could eat that was within reach and most of it was stuff I did not have to cook.

Lesson learned. I need to gradually increase the fast time on Wednesdays and Fridays. Maybe I will just fast until 12:15 on this Friday.

Day 180 – Thursday, November 16, 2017: 220.8
Tom worked from home yesterday, so he noticed that I had engaged in a feeding frenzy when he was gone. He teased me about it last night and this morning. Well, I decided to take a look at my weight and was relieved that it had not gone up all that much.

Day 181 – Friday, November 17, 2017: 220.6
I have my plan in place, so I think I can go back to daily weigh-ins. I was to fast until 12:15 today but actually fasted until closer to 1. It is so nice to not have to track when I actually eat or to count the hours from one time of eating to another. Instead, I just shoot for an eating window. This is ultimate simplicity.

Day 182 – Saturday, November 18, 2017: 221.4
The results from six months of fasting are not encouraging; however, there are promising indications that this diet will work in the long run. Yesterday, I was gone all day, and last night Ellie was out with friends, so Tom and I just got Chinese take-out at the grocery store. It was not very good. I got about 1/3 of the way through and realized I was full. I considered putting the food in the refrigerator but thought it would taste worse tomorrow, so I soldiered on and finished it. I am starting to realize when I am full rather than stuffed. Now I need to start honoring that. The rest of the dinner belonged in the garbage, not in my stomach!

Day 183 – Sunday, November 19, 2017: 221.0
At just shy of 6 months of fasting, I have lost a grand total of 5 pounds. Let's see what I weigh in another 6 months. I am going to increase the amount of fasting by 15 minutes on every Wednesday and Friday until I am fasting until 6 PM on those days. I will also work on exercise and believe my focus will be yoga. There are Monday, Wednesday and Friday yoga classes at the Y that I can take.

Day 184 – Monday, November 20, 2017: 220.4
I felt a little bummed yesterday by the very slow weight loss, but today I am feeling more optimistic. There will be ups and downs on the scale, but the general trend is down. Yesterday, we continued discussing spending a week on a houseboat next summer. That was my favorite vacation when I was a kid, even though we spent almost a month in Europe when I was in middle school. Now, looking forward, I think I'm not going to be comfortable in a swimsuit. I had to take a deep breath and remind myself that fasting is for good health in the long haul. I cannot be getting off track shooting for a lower weight by a specific time. Instead, I need to put my body in charge of weight loss and just focus on sticking with eating only within the window of time selected.

Last night, I did not finish eating until 8 PM. That is life. Things come up. I don't beat myself up if things come up that result in a later or earlier eating time, but I try to stick within the window if I can.

8 PM: Tonight, Ellie and I finished eating around 5:30 PM because there was a band meeting at 6 PM. That means I was done eating at 5:30 but still will aim for not eating again until noon tomorrow. It is so nice just to look at the clock one time to see if I can eat or not and not worry about how many hours it has been since I last ate.

Day 185 – Tuesday, November 21, 2017:
Day 186 – Wednesday, November 22, 2017:
Day 187 – Thursday, November 23, 2017:
Day 188 – Friday, November 24, 2017:
Day 189 – Saturday, November 25, 2017:
Day 190 – Sunday, November 26, 2017:
Day 191 – Monday, November 27, 2017:
Day 192 – Tuesday, November 28, 2017:
Day 193 – Wednesday, November 29, 2017:
Day 194 – Thursday, November 30, 2017:
Day 195 – Friday, December 1, 2017:
Day 196 – Saturday, December 2, 2017:
Day 197 – Sunday, December 3, 2017:
Day 198– Monday, December 4, 2017:
Day 199 – Tuesday, December 5, 2017:
Day 200 – Wednesday, December 6, 2017:
Day 201 – Thursday, December 7, 2017:
Day 202 – Friday, December 8, 2017:
Day 203 – Saturday, December 9, 2017:
Day 204 – Sunday, December 10, 2017:
Day 205 – Monday, December 11, 2017:
Day 206 – Tuesday, December 12, 2017:
Day 207 – Wednesday, December 13, 2017:
Day 208 – Thursday, December 14, 2017:
Day 209 – Friday, December 15, 2017:
Day 210 – Saturday, December 16, 2017:
Day 211 – Sunday, December 17, 2017:
Day 212 – Monday, December 18, 2017:
Day 213 – Tuesday, December 19, 2017:
Day 214 – Wednesday, December 20, 2017:
Day 215 – Thursday, December 21, 2017:
Day 216 – Friday, December 22, 2017:
Day 217 – Saturday, December 23, 2017:
Day 218 – Sunday, December 24, 2017:
Day 219 – Monday, December 25, 2017:
Day 220 – Tuesday, December 26, 2017:
Day 221 – Wednesday, December 27, 2017:
Day 222 – Thursday, December 28, 2017:
Day 223 – Friday, December 29, 2017:
Day 224 – Saturday, December 30, 2017:
Day 225 – Sunday, December 31, 2017:
_________________
Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.


Last edited by Kathleen on Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:58 am; edited 25 times in total
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 885
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Overeating just isn't worth it.

Now this is as true a statement as I've ever seen.

Quote:
I like the idea of benign neglect for a weight loss goal!

So do I. Just do the work and let the scale fall where it may.

I've been thinking a lot lately about the importance of focusing on behavior and don't worry about a goal. The behavior is the goal.

Best of luck to you.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8159
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's only one way to show that overeating isn't worth it and that's to NOT do it. If a person does it, it means she is still not convinced. She thinks the discomfort of not overeating ISN"T worth it. The pleasure or ease or urgency (even if it isn't pleasant) is more important. That is not a crime, but it actually helps to see the issue as it is. When I saw that I kept up behaviors that seemed like they might not be worth it, I had to recognize that I thought something else was even more compelling and worth giving into.

If you really think an item isn't worth it, you don't buy it. If you think a place isn't worth it to visit, you don't go there. Etc.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.


Last edited by oolala53 on Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The behavior is the goal." I like that idea. Overeating is not something that can easily be measured, but fasting 16 hours out of 24 is something that can be measured.
Kathleen
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Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you say overeating is not worth it if it can't be measured? You must have had to experience it to say it's not worth it. Why not add not overeating during weekday 8-hour eating windows to your behavior goals? It will be unlikely you'll experience any reinforcing benefits from fasting 16 hours if you consistently overeat during them.

Where will you record the measuring of it? Since behavior will be your goal this month, why not drop recording weight?
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
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Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I missed what is your specific behavior goal? Is it fasting or not overeating? I know that ultimately you want both but what is the focus this month? For me it works best to focus on one tiny thing at a time and keep adding behaviors as I gain success. I also tend to start with the easer steps first. But it's absolutely vital to know what the actual goal behavior is. Otherwise, it's easy to get muddled.

Hope your weekend goes well.
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerpie,
It is fasting and only fasting. I think it might be counterproductive to add behaviors. Fasting alone will lead to weight loss over time. I sense it already: I eat less to get to a feeling of fullness. With overeating, how are you supposed to know the bite that qualifies as overeating? I put your words "behavior is the goal" in my profile. It perfectly describes what I am trying to do: focus on behavior. Thanks!
Kathleen
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Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8159
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's important to think ahead to what obstacles you may encounter. What reasons/thoughts might come up to eat outside the window? How will you refute them? I feel sad when I see how many times in the past so many situations can sway you from your stated intentions, leaving you whirling in thoughts that don't lead to the changes you wanted. The excuses all seem reasonable at the time except that they have kept you in nearly the same unhappy eating patterns for years. The reasons are not going to go away. The responses have to change if you are going to heal your insulin response. I know you will be so joyful to change that.

I put my reasons to stick to No S on index cards and on my desktop and read them hundreds of times over the first three months. I included some of my refuting thoughts on the cards. They came to my rescue many times, and I was never sorry I waited past the urges. I knew I was always kidding myself when I believed the extra food was necessary when I had plenty of reserves in my body to draw from.

For example, one of yours might be, "This social situation might seem important enough to eat, but my body's insulin response doesn't know the difference. It will overproduce insulin no matter what. If I'm serious about reducing the insulin response, I'll stick to my 8-hour window. I want those benefits!"

Similar for eating pressure from others. "My body will not alter its insulin response to make someone else feel better by my eating outside my window. I can kindly thank them but not eat. Better to be uncomfortable for a time from their reaction than to keep subjecting my body to the inner discomfort of insulin for so many hours of the day."

"I feel so glad at my first meal each day that I kept my 16-hour fast overnight."

"I feel so proud each night that I kept to my eating window."

"I can more than adequately fulfill all of life's obligations while keeping to my 8-hour window. My relatives and friends respect my new habits even if they don't completely understand yet, just as I love them regardless."

"My body is adequately fed all day by my food and by drawing on its stores during my fast. I am not fooled by fake feelings of deprivation. I deprive myself more by eating outside my window than sticking to it."

Looking forward to a joyful report in December!
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 885
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I put your words "behavior is the goal" in my profile. It perfectly describes what I am trying to do: focus on behavior. Thanks!

I'm glad something I said makes sense to you. It's always hard finding the right way to phrase something.
Quote:

It is fasting and only fasting. I think it might be counterproductive to add behaviors.

I'm a bit concerned that you might find yourself overeating even inside your window and thereby become discouraged. Please do try some of the wonderful ideas that oolala suggested and . . . remember to celebrate any success you have. Even if they seem tiny and insignificant they are the stepping stones to bigger successes. I hope you come back often during the month to let us know so we can celebrate with you.

Best of luck to you this month. I'll be thinking of you often.
Kind regards,
Virginia
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
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Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, gingerpie. I think I'm headed in the right direction. It may be that I need more of a fasting period of 18 hours per day rather than 16, so I'll work towards that, starting with a fasting period of 16.5 hours per day.
Kathleen
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Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 885
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kathleen,

How's the fasting going? I've been thinking of you. I'm still struggling with evening snacks but I think it's as oolala said, I just have to learn to sit with the discomfort. Perhaps I could learn to embrace it as it's only by stretching into the unfamiliar that we grow.

Hope you're well,
Virginia
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
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Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Virginia,
Evening snacking isn't an issue for me; it's more being able to eat in the afternoon, so an 11 AM - 7 PM eating window is actually really easy. I'm not quite settled on when to fast, but I'm convinced fasting is the way to go! Thanks for asking --
Kathleen
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Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3409
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another Intermittent Faster here. Doing 19/5 and really loving it. I may shorten my window later if weight loss stalls but so far this seems to be a good window for me.

Best of luck with it all!

Linda
_________________
"Every weakness contains within itself a Strength."
Shūsaku Endō

3/14-210 lbs; 3/15- 202 lbs; 1/16- 172 lbs; 9/17-177 lbs; 11/10- 167.8 lbs

Current weight: 165.4 lbs






Instagram "lpearlmom"
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic, lpearmom! NoS Diet is a fasting diet in that you fast between dinner and breakfast (about 12 hours) five days per week. I'm looking back and thinking it does work for some people, but my insulin resistance required stronger medicine.
Kathleen
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Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3409
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I think I'm better prepared for IF because of NoS. However now that I know what a clean fast is, I realize I should have been doing that between meals w/ NoS. It does make such a difference!

Gl!

Linda


PS. Here's the link to the IF Facebook group if you're interested.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1813271035601148?ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_comment_mention
_________________
"Every weakness contains within itself a Strength."
Shūsaku Endō

3/14-210 lbs; 3/15- 202 lbs; 1/16- 172 lbs; 9/17-177 lbs; 11/10- 167.8 lbs

Current weight: 165.4 lbs






Instagram "lpearlmom"
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Kathleen



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1509
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lpearlmom,
I requested to join. Thank you! There always was something right but not quite enough about No S for me, and now I think I know why: I needed to fast more in order to lower insulin levels.
Kathleen
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Day 1 - May 21, 2017: 226.0
The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3409
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yay!! I can see that. I did well on NoS and lost 40 lbs but I could see it wasn't going to go any further than that and I need to lose 20-40 lbs more. The scale is starting to move with IF though so I feel like I'm on the right track.
_________________
"Every weakness contains within itself a Strength."
Shūsaku Endō

3/14-210 lbs; 3/15- 202 lbs; 1/16- 172 lbs; 9/17-177 lbs; 11/10- 167.8 lbs

Current weight: 165.4 lbs






Instagram "lpearlmom"
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