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oolala53
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 757
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never liked candy corn even when I was kid. It's good that you passed on it. Whatever is available tonight will be better I'm sure.

I'm looking forward to one peanut butter cup. I think that, like you, I just don't need as much food anymore. It's kind of disappointing because I like food.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7760
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been terribly disappointed by a waning appetite! I've not lost my DESIRE to eat, but it's not as much fun as being HUNGRY and then eating. I complain about it a lot... Sad
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
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Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear ya! Sometimes I just want the experience of eating but I don't really want the food - if that makes any sense. I suppose that's a holdover from the days when I ate for reasons other than hunger. If I lost my appetite as well, I'd complain about it too. I feel like some deep rooted source of joy is slowly being eroded. Well, I'll adjust to it in time.

Somewhere you mentioned sleep issues. As you would say, I'd like to gently suggest that an increase in exercise might help smooth out your sleep (I know it helped mine) as well as increase your appetite thereby making your meals a bit more enjoyable. I know exercise isn't your "thing" but the research is pretty conclusive.

Regards,
Virginia
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7760
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been getting regular about N day 'vigor." Up to 8-9 minutes a day. I worked out a lot harder and pretty regularly through some very poor sleep times. But it might help more now that I'm older. I"m working up to it!
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.


Last edited by oolala53 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
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Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slowly, slowly increasing the level of "vigor" in your day is a great strategy. I went from only being able to run for 15-20 second to being able to run a 5k by slowly increasing my time by seconds per week then later 1minute per week. I'm very proud of that accomplishment! Wink Can you tell? I'm not very fast but I've experienced all the positive side effects of physical exercise so I'm very motivated to continue. I hope your able to find just the kind of movement you need.

Have a wonderful movement filled day!

Kind regards,
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7760
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought some half price candy on Sunday. It was fun. Not longing for any more.

I've got classes on Monday and Tuesday nights that I'm having a harder time negotiating dinner around than I thought I would. They don't mess me up completely, but I do feel off-center. I'd like to get a little more flexible about it without feeling like I"m doing a balancing act.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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freegirl



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 159
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala, I want to thank you for these wise words on Clarinetgal's thread:

oolala53 wrote:
I've had many times when I've wondered what the heck is going to get me to stop eating compulsively in some similar situation. Honestly, I don't know why things will change and I start doing it, BUT I will say that I have sometimes gone through a phase, short or long, where I gave up on it. Not went hogwild the other way, but just calmly saw that I was not willing to change it right then, so I didn't try to fight it so hard. I took away some of the underlying feelings of panic or sadness or fear about it while I was doing it, and just calmly engaged. I wouldn't get as excited about a it as I would a meal, but I would force myself to sit and enjoy the food. I don't know if this what was made the difference because I had no epiphanies nor have things change clearly and obviously, but I have suspected it played a part in things getting easier down the line. Given that I had an underlying love for the value of moderation, I don't think it made things worse. It wasn't rebellion as much as just reasonable acceptance of how things were right then.

No matter what, I predict that this will shift. Just don't know when!


It looks like we need to calmly accept that we cannot always control our eating. And at the same time, not give up on our attempts to control it. I know it sounds contradictory, but it seems to me that achieving that fine balance is the key.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It turns out this is one of the paradoxical tenets of Dialectical Behavior Therapy. The client must both accept herself and the troublesome behavior AND accept that It needs to change because it's causing more problems than it's solving. Apparently, that's what the "dialectical" part is. The client AND the therapist hold both concepts at the same time, though of course there is seesawing.

Just before No S, I didn't try to control my eating for months. It got pretty bad, but at .the end, I wasn't panicked, but soberly determined. Now, I may be compulsive for just a few hours on occasional days separated by mostly sane moderation. That's acceptable to me for now. But I have no health concerns, except mental health and I don't believe that food will fix those.

My heart is with you!
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7760
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Failed on sweets rather strongly three days in a row. Geesh. I wish it made me feel worse physically. Not that it feels good. It's kinda funny how it feels familiar and almost comfortable in the familiar mild cruddy feeling. Unfortunately, it's not intense enough to really hate. And NOT failing doesn't feel terrifically better, so the incentive has to be rather psychological. That's more effort.

Ah, poor middle class angst me.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 757
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ah, poor middle class angst me.


I hear ya. I often think a similar thing when I listen to myself talk. Rolling Eyes
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
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Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my Buddhist for mothers book it says we shouldn't feel guilty for having first world problems because the very nature of being human means we will have our struggles. The pain is still very real.

I'm not saying it as well as my book (and am too darn lazy to get out of bed to look for it) but hopefully you get the drift. Once the basics of human survival are covered, new problems will arise because we need struggles/problems in order to continue to grow as a human so maybe we can just learn to embrace them a little instead of feeling guilty for having them at all ?
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 757
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linda,
I don't disagree. Humans clearly need struggle to overcome. Hence the space program, climbing the Himalayas, and an endless list of humanitarian efforts. And, it is good for us to stuggle as individuals. It helps us to grow and mature into responsible adults. We definitely will find something to struggle with internally if there is nothing available externally. I also don't think I need to feel guilty about my own struggles. My life is my life and I'm very happy in it. However, a little honesty is required. Faced with a refrigerator full of food. "Struggling" not to eat too much hardly falls on the same plane as being faced with an empty refrigerator and struggling to fill it. Struggling to keep my kids safe at the mall is hardly on the same plane as struggling to keep them safe in Syria. And Struggling to get the school kids to do their homework hardly falls on same plane as struggling to feed and educate the nearly 2 million homeless kids in the US. (US 2013 figures).Do I think I need to feel guilty? No, guilt is a waste of time and achieves nothing. Do I need to look at my struggles honestly and put them in proper persective? Yes, absolutly.

[/i]
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh of course. Was just trying to show a different way of looking at things. I tend to have a lot of guilt so that helped me in the past but yeah I don't think I'm saying it right. Sorry didn't mean to offend!
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
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Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala, Sorry for high-jacking your thread. I'll try to make it as short as my long-winded self can make it.

Linda, No offense taken. Smile I tend to think of guilt as wake up call. I rarely experience it but if I do, I think it is an indication that there is something a bit "off" about my own behavior or decisions - something doesn't quite sit right with what I believe to be acceptable behavior. I understand though that sometimes we're encouraged to feel guilt about things that we really have no control over. There is no point in it then, guilt I mean. It serves no useful function in that scenario. For example, it doesn't matter in the least how guilty I may or may not feel: there are still going to be 2 million homeless kids in the US. It does serve a useful function though if I suspect that the neighbor kid is hungry and I do nothing about it. In any case, my own relatively minor struggles help give me empathy and the ability to recognize when someone else is struggling with an issue bigger than my own. It is however, important to for me to realize that their struggle really is bigger.

Hope this clarifies my point a bit.

As always, Kind regards.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I understood what you meant ginger but very well put.

Back to you oolala! ☺️
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clarinetgal



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand completely about sweets! I know they're not the best to eat, but I don't feel terribly guilty when I eat them. It makes sense that the need to change has to be psychological.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7760
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All that being said, I've been failing on some sizable portions of sweets pretty regularly lately. Man, it's so easy, even though I remember a day when it felt absolutely weird to reach for any on an N day.

Been on jury duty since Wednesday afternoon. Judge kept promising it would be a short trial, as most are a week to two weeks. Last witness is this morning. I'm hoping we can wrap up today. I wonder how many trials are decided by people on the jury who just want to get it over with?

Well, after this, I won't be called for possible selection for three years.

I have gotten some brisk walking in because parking is so expensive near the courthouse. But I got free transit today. Just like free food. I'm probably not going to get off and walk from where I would have parked.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7760
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a semi-wild Saturday. Did not feel good, but I won't whine about it. It's such an old story.

Also won't whine about work.

Went to dance class last night in honor of our teacher, who has surgery for mouth cancer coming up. Felt pretty good to move, though I was sore from lapsing and then going at it too strong with squats this week. There were people there from years ago who told me I look pretty good on the dance floor. Not sure I agree as I saw myself on a short video awhile back. I thought I jumped higher and got my arms in better circles than that! But I said thank you. I do think I do okay for a senior citizen. But it's hard not to compare to what I could do if I would just keep up with my vigorous exercise routine, including some rope jumping! Oh, how the mind tortures us.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 757
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh, how the mind tortures us.

Yes, indeed how it does! Rolling Eyes

I believe myself to be quite coordinated but my kids have given me strict instructions to never dance or give the appearance that I might dance in public. So sad. But I fear that I too am no longer moving with as much grace as I imagine I once did.

They do allow me to run publicly but I think that is because running doesn't really take much grace.

Hope your week goes well.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
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Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just so you know I never feel like you whine and I never get tired of hearing about your struggles. I guess it just helps me to know I'm not alone in experiencing difficulties.

Of course you just may be tired of talking about it but don't feel like you're boring anyone cuz you're not. Smile
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clarinetgal



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's awesome that you dance at all! I have always (sort of) liked to dance, but I'm way too shy to do it in public. Embarassed
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Linda! But it really is because I'm tired of listening to myself say the same stuff.

All children think adults they know look terrible dancing. They don't like to see them kiss, either.

And I think possibly my mother thought I SHOULD be too shy to dance in public.

Been off the wagon. Oh, well. Amazingly, I had a colleague remark yesterday on how thin I am. I said thanks but it always makes me think, how big did she think I was? I weigh about the same as I did a couple of years ago.

But another friend found Christmas pics of us from several years ago and she said I had lost a "lot" of weight. I think she was also feeling it because she, who had had a knockout body up until the last ten years, has put on all the weight I've lost, I think. And she walks, albeit slowly, a few hours a day with her dog. She claims she doesn't overeat that much. It could be true. She has a pretty good idea of what I do. She's known me the whole time. But, I think she's not interested in No S. Despite her unhappiness with her body, she has an even harder time with discipline. And I think she thinks I'm a bit of a slave to my meals, which might be true. She was effortlessly thin for so many years, eating quite a bit and whenever she wanted, full dinners out WITH dessert whenever, that I'd bet she thinks it's somehow going to return. And it might! She's not happy about other stuff, too. Maybe when that sorts out, eating will, too.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.


Last edited by oolala53 on Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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walkerlori



Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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Location: new mexico

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checking in with my No S pals.
Hope you're having a terrific holiday season!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking back at my reporting of others saying I was thin or had lost weight over the years. I didn't mention that I view these statements ambivalently. Our culture glorifies discipline and thinness so much that it's hard not to feel a little gratified. But I still question the emphasis on this as an important measure. Why should it matter so much that we're beautiful? I like the critique of the expectation that all women should somehow be competing with "professional beauties," such as actresses, beauty queens, and models. That's why I love Carrie Fisher's honest complaints about the need and process of weight loss for her part in Star Wars now. (I do have to say, though, that I would be as likely to look critically at an older male general who didn't look fit. So I'm still prejudiced, too.

http://flavorwire.com/554129/carrie-fishers-comments-on-appearance-are-even-more-revolutionary-than-you-think

I know I get some props because I've shown that No S can take weight off a body. But I think most know by now that the real value I believe it has is in being a flexible-enough way to make managing the excess of available food automatic, if we're committed to moderation.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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CDee



Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate your thoughts. I too feel we put too much value on outward appearances. At the end of the day the question we should ask ourselves is "How did I treat others?" not "How much did I weigh?"

I have no dillusions about what I will look like IF I lose 40 pounds. I will never be on the cover of a magazine. At 40, I don't really care. I just want to be a healthly size. I don't want my knees and my back to hurt. I don't want to keep wearing holes in the inner thigh portion of my pants because of thigh rub. I don't want to think about how many grams of this or that is in this or that food. I just want to stop overeating and make sure I don't become a diabetic like my father and my grandmother. I will take any size/weight that can accomplish those things.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CDee wrote:
At the end of the day the question we should ask ourselves is "How did I treat others?" not "How much did I weigh?".


I love that CDee!

I'm so torn on this whole issue of beauty/weight. I really came into Nos just wanting a better relationship with food. I got that in spades but now that I've lost some weight, I do feel SO much better about my appearance and myself but I'm still the same old me at the end of the day. If anything it's forced me to deal with a lot of internal issues that I ignored before.

When you're so focused on your body hatred, you really don't have much time to work on the stuff you really need to face. Plus, there's this belief that everything will be magically wonderful and just kind of fall into place once the weight comes off yet this never happens. You're still just stuck with you and then it's like okay I guess I'm going to just finally have to deal w all this cr*p. That's when the real work begins.

But one thing I do know now that I'm older is that beauty or sexiness or whatever isn't about being a certain size or being in perfect shape or anything like that. It's about taking a little time to put yourself together, it's about embracing your own sexuality, it's about having that little glint in your eye and mischievousness to your smile, it's about being open and interested in other people and excited about life. Those are the things that make people attractive..at least to me. How I wish I'd known this when I was 20. I could have taken over the world instead of fretting about how I looked in a bathing suit. ☺️

Sorry to go in oolala but this is a subject I think about a lot and I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about it all.

Linda
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Strawberry Roan



Joined: 06 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I foremost care about health and fitness but will readily admit that I am pretty vain in a pair of jeans. I want to look as good as I can for as long as I can.

I totally agree with your assessment, Linda. Knowing that I look - and feel - my very best on date night with my good looking husband adds a spark that makes the whole night, let's just say, turn out better. Cool

As Sharon Stone recently said,

Stone isn't shy about revealing her real self. The Basic Instinct star posed nude for Harper's Bazaar's September issue and looked absolutely stunning though she was humble (and self-deprecating) about her striking figure.

"I'm aware that my ass looks like a bag of flapjacks," Stone says. "But I'm not trying to be the best-looking broad in the world. At a certain point you start asking yourself, 'What really is sexy?' It's not just the elevation of your boobs. It's being present and having fun and liking yourself enough to like the person that's with you.

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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharon Stone is right, but she's gotten a LOT more approval in life for her looks even without her newfound wisdom than the average bear. But she's really kind of full of herself, IMHO. She dissed being on Law and Order and I thought she was the worst actor in the whole cast. I think the story line in Basic Instinct was what impressed people, not her acting, though most people won't see the difference. I don't think she'd have gotten so much attention in Hollywood if she weren't so naturally stunning. I gratn she did a decent job in Casino, but I felt that the acting wasn't completely different from her attitude in some ways. She once said in her early fame that the difference was that she got to torture a more successful group of men, in so many words. I doubt she was much of a druggy, but the attitude of entitlement... And my ass should be so flapjacky. But it's all mostly an inside job.

In my addiction to this damn eating topic, I came across a reference to Bright Line Eating. The author said she was saved years ago by the 2003 limitations of OA: no sugar, no flour, meals, and weighed-and-measured portions. OMG! Those worked for her, but they combine Almost both of the failed strategies of Reinhard's Why are other diets so lousy? True, weighed and measured portions isn't quite the same as calorie counting, but still. (My measure of viability is always Can I do it while visiting a village it took two hours on a dirt road to get to? Her version: no) She was incensed when she interpreted that Baumeister in Willpower said that willpower tactics don't work for eating, and has gone on to devote herself to proving him wrong. He didn't say exactly that. He said people cannot eliminate ALL eating the way a person can swear off booze or drugs. He went on to say that situational bright lines are more effective than traditional dieting. She went on to the National Weight Loss Registry for more, but I stopped at that point mostly for time considerations. But something I don't like at the registry is that they don't spend more time trying to understand motivation. Many of the successful people do the stuff most others are never gonna do and things they wouldn't do before they got the motivation. But it takes a tremendous motivation, in my mind, to commit to no sugar and no flour. Doesn't mean people on No S can't eventually decide to eliminate both, but since the failure rate on it is so high, and practically no one in the world lives like that, why push it! Preaching to the choir, I"m sure.

Thank you again, Reinhard, for reminding us of such reasonable bright lines!
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Strawberry Roan



Joined: 06 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps Sharon Stone, like many who have endured serious medical conditions, has matured.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe that's what I need to grow up. Twisted Evil
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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MJ7910



Joined: 12 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've been away for quite a while but glad to see you are still active on here. I am approaching my 3 year anniversary. i'm doing a lot better . still the same weight range. some things have changed but the principles of healthy eating are basically the same! good to "see" you!
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oolala53



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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been avoiding posting because I feel I have a lot to say but don't allot the time. Will just say briefly that I've been grappling with several issues that I have let affect my eating. I THINK I'm coming to some conviction. I was attracted for awhile to Trim Healthy Mama partly because an old member here who could not make No S work adopted the principles and had a lot of success. I felt I was grappling enough again with sugar issues that it merited looking at something to support refining my meal choices and possibly S days. Though THM recommends snacking, I'm pretty sure she said she doesn't much. In the meantime, I also came across some information on a "diet" (MIND) to cut odds of Alzheimer's, which is a much greater concern to me than thinness or other degenerative problems. I also think I've written of a interest I have had for the Blue Zones info. THM was very much clashing with the other two. I started to feel a bit crazy at meal times again. The stakes seem so high! What if I bet wrong? But dickering is even worse.

At this moment, I've come down on the side of MIND/Blue Zones. I do like some of the dessert ideas from THM.

The MIND stuff has really helped just about end the slide back to some sugar bingeing that I was making excuses for. It really does change things when you do something because you really believe it will impact an element of health that is truly important to you. I have easily been able to ignore thoughts of gorging on cookie dough or the like. Before it was just a matter of sometimes being willing to accept the logy feelings for the pleasure of the binge, which was still a pleasure. But now imagining even the pleasure also brings a kind of gag feeling as I equate it with contributing to losing my mental faculties. I realize there are no guarantees. It cuts the odds by half, not down to zero. But I also have had fast food only once since I read about the study, and that is something I didn't really have much of urge to change. I also have opted for cutting down on relying on mochas or lattes out between meals because I just don't enjoy them without some kind of creamer, and I don't feel good anymore about using that much on a regular basis. I'll try to save that for social, special occasions, such as on vacations. It is still involving getting used to, and I do honestly miss my bean and cheese or chile verde burritos and- less frequently- pizza! But as with sugar, I've had plenty in my life, and the suffering is minor. I won't starve without them, and will find pleasure in old and new items, and the thought that I'm doing what I reasonably can to help protect something important to me.

This means I'm much less carefree about eating out, but so far, it feels like it's worth the trade, and not a punishment, as dieting used to feel like, since then I felt I was mostly serving the false idol of thinking my acceptance by others- and to some degree myself- was dependent on my body. I've never been able to bend to that. In fact, THAT always felt like a punishment.

Might post a version of this in testimonials later.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My "mods" but still at meals

Green leafy vegetables (like spinach and salad greens): At least six servings a week M x2
Other vegetables: At least one a day Mx 3
Nuts: Five servings a week Mx2
Berries: Two or more servings a week Mx0
Beans: At least three servings a week Mx.5
Whole grains: Three or more servings a day Myes
Fish: Once a week Myes
Poultry (like chicken or turkey): Two times a week
Olive oil: Use it as your main cooking oil. Myes
Wine: One glass a day M yes

I avoid:

M0-Red meat: Less than four servings a week
M0-Butter and margarine: Less than a tablespoon daily
M0-Cheese: Less than one serving a week
M0-Pastries and sweets: Less than five servings a week
M0-Fried or fast food: Less than one serving a week

Wish I could set these up in a table and be able to just use check marks.
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Queenie



Joined: 17 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala, what do the "M" notes mean in your list? ("Mx2" for example)
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walkerlori



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just stopping by to say hi to my No S friend!
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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good to me! I didn't set out to do it in such a purposeful manner but that's pretty much how I eat (except I don't eat poultry). I'm vegan 90% of the time so naturally gravitate towards beans, nuts, leafy greens, berries etc. I do eat fish when I go out to a sit down restaurant so works out to about once a week. And as for wine... Well I'm trying to go in the other direction with that and hopefully find a happy medium.

Good luck with your new eating plan! I find when my motivation isn't for weight loss it's not a struggle at all. Mine are ethical reasons plus I feel great when I eat this way.

Linda Smile
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Queenie, M was for Monday and the number was for the servings. Not doing so great keeping up the recording and it's now Thursday!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linda, I toy with the idea of leaving out the chicken eventually, but it is interesting that it is one of the foods the researchers found a correlation with in reducing Alzheimer's. Notice that it is in the added column, not the limit column, but I am going to aim for just two times a week, when I ate it much more often before. I might be willing to challenge the odds and leave it out, but not yet.
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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes sense to me!
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osoniye



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a betting woman, but if I were, I'd bet the reason the chicken is rated so highly is that people tend to sub it out for red meat. I kinda doubt it has anything to do with the chicken itself, but I could be wrong.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if they hadn't found it was positively correlated, they wouldn't have included it. But the swap may be the explanation. I don't know if her work included many people who ate no animal flesh at all. They are exceptions in the world near and far. No Blue Zone regions are completely vegetarian.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't put this up on the general board because some might find it too discouraging, BUT

I was reading in a book by a physician (who basically writes as if individuals can't do much in this culture's environment) about a study in which people were delivered meals with the right portions and all for EIGHTEEN months, yet they eventually gained all the lost weight back. So much for 21 days to a new habit. 'Course, we don't know if the dieters actually stuck to eating just the delivered food. And I would be suspicious of any program that didn't make people be able to choose their own meals and be able to cobble some basic meals for themselves.

It just reinforces what we know: overeating is the default setting for most individuals. As Reinhard said in the book, without scarcity or culture, it's the exception to consistently limit food.

Am only on page 65: this woman is going to hammer home the case that the only way to change things is to change the public environment. I'm all for that, but in the mean time, I'll stay here with the tribe, each in our own environs a culture of one.

Oh, I also looked at a vlog on a site called Bright Line Eating. It is by a psychologist who "found food freedom" by sticking to a few prescribed rules- one of which is to weigh and measure all food for meals at home. In the video, she was talking about how disappointed she was in herself on a recent trip on which she felt she ate in restaurants in a way that was not in keeping with her basic principles, and that she was considering instituting weighing her food at restaurants. This after THIRTEEN years of using her plan and maintaining a big loss and now pretty thin body. It made me think about how I, six years in, still fret over some of this. I sure don't want this to be that much of an issue 7 years from now! But maybe that's not realistic, given that we know overeating comes so naturally. Maybe the people who can adopt even No S and get to the point at which they can forget about it are the exception, too.

But I know that a lot of the situations that the first author tried to say make it impossible to keep controlling ourselves in just made me knit my brow. Thank you, No S! And Judith Beck.

Yes, I know I need another life. Confused
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Kittson



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
In the video, she was talking about how disappointed she was in herself on a recent trip on which she felt she ate in restaurants in a way that was not in keeping with her basic principles, and that she was considering instituting weighing her food at restaurants. This after THIRTEEN years of using her plan and maintaining a big loss and now pretty thin body.


It would seem quite abnormal to me to see a thin, healthy weight woman weighing her food in a restaurant. IMO I would consider that disordered. At what point does one just live their life and have three meals a day and not demand perfection of themselves? Her blog must be what she makes her living on, so she must hold herself to some strict requirements, but then healthy living blogs are another monster all together. Smile
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think she originally was using guidelines of OA, which, for the short time I went to it back in the mid '80's, was just three moderate meals a day with no eating in between, but which later forbade sugar and flour and started asking for weighing and measuring all food. (I balked at the three meals then!) Let me tell you, OA drew some pretty seriously overweight people even then. I considered myself a binger, but I couldn't imagine eating the amounts of food these people felt helpless to control. I just don't see the eating guidelines being reasonable as a start for a lot of these people. And I think I'm right. I don't think it has much of a success rate, but none of the XA organizations are willing to track their success. They mostly make claims. I don't say it hasn't helped, but as many walk away, just like most people give up diets pretty fast.
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Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

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Merry



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm REALLY glad to not be weighing food any more, but even when I did--I can't imagine doing so at a restaurant! (When I was weighing/calorie counting, I actually thought restaurants made it easy with the posted calories--but maybe this one didn't post calories).
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"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasn't about the calories, but that she felt she had picked at the food too much. I guess she felt like she was acting like a person who is at the effect of food rather than detached. It represents that kind of attitude I want to avoid, namely that I should feel weird or apologetic if I am not breezy about my food. I fight the sense that I ever have anything to apologize for, though I can regret feeling the discomfort of being too full. Though I very much value the concept of moderation, it is not a moral issue to me and thus shame is misplaced.
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osoniye



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really admire my OA friends who are willing to weigh and measure in public. They know that their eyes are a poor judge, and that their "off" button is broken. If that's what they need to do, and do it despite people's reactions, I applaud them.
Rather than weighing food, it is a whole lot easier to use "1 plate" as a measure, but it is a sort of a measure, none the less.
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Kittson



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed Didn't realize weighing food at restaurants was an OA thing. My bad! I guess I am thankful I have never had to experience that myself, and if it is truly what some need to do to get healthy, then good for them that they have the awareness to do that. To each their own, right? Sorry, I hope I didn't offend anyone.
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clarinetgal



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could not imagine weighing my food in a restaurant, but whatever works. I would definitely rather stick with the one plate rule.
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walkerlori



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yikes, I've done some extreme diet behaviors. Weighing food in restaurants isn't one of them!

I've always liked your signature "Count plates, not calories. 3 a day". That's it in a nutshell.
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RAWCOOKIE



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eating just should not be that complicated........... everytime I catch onto some new 'fad' it can take me a while before I realise I'm being obsessive again! I read somewhere that if you are going to be addicted to anything, be addicted to healthy things - I'm kind of obsessed with eating three meals a day right now - and it feels OK!
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Queenie



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RAWCOOKIE wrote:
I'm kind of obsessed with eating three meals a day right now


Bravo!
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RAWCOOKIE



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have mentioned Brad Pilon (?) to me a couple of times and I've just spent an hour or so reading about his IF on-line. I think I saw on SP that you've bought the book now?

I also read a review about the different types of IF and the good thing about Eat Stop Eat seems to be that you can gradually build up the time until you can do 24 hrs. I'm thinking I might try doing a 1pm to 1pm fast......... at least, stop after lunch on the first day, and see how far I can go on the second day! (god, even writing that I start to feel a bit scared of going to bed feeling hungry!)

On his website, I was particularly interested in the information about growth hormones and older people - I expect you've seen it - and how IF can stimulate growth hormones (I think that's the right word for it?) quite dramatically.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case you're interested.
https://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=167785#167785
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RAWCOOKIE



Joined: 18 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon Gabriel has just posted this on YouTube about IF - don't know if you are 'into' Jon Gabriel - but here's the link in case you're curious. (he doesn't recommend 3 meals a day - he's more into snacks)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42esKtZ_I0
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't watch right now, but I have lost a lot of respect for Jon Gabriel. When he started, he was recommending that people take their time, not limit foods until they could let them drop naturally, etc. I could never do the visualization stuff. I joined a group of his on Facebook and all they seemed to talk about was low carb and health stuff, this food and that food. It just sounded like a diet. He seems to all about making dough, though who can blame him, I guess.

But i'm assuming the video is about fasting... or lack of it, if he's into snacks.

IF you're still interested in more Brad stuff, he had videos on youtube, too. But they take a lot longer than reading, and they often have diagrams, so you can't do housework or anything while you listen.

But don't let it mess up No S!


Some people never get to 24 hours of fasting, but they might do it more days of the week.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a weight scale that supposedly also measures body fat. For nearly all the time I've been on No S, it told me my bf was in the high 30's, which was hard to take, but I knew I wasn't willing to do anything much different to change it, so there it stayed. Given that my weight has dropped to almost the lowest it's been in my adult life late, and the percentage wasn't dropping by much, it started to really bug me. It just didn't seem good that it was that high, even if my weight was fine. Well, I finally paid for a DEXA scan, the gold standard for determining body fat and found out that it's about where it was over 20 years ago, and 6% down from the most recent number on the faulty home scale. Not low, but not bad, and within striking distance, though that too will just have to change as a natural outgrowth of habits. I'm in no way ever expecting it to get where it was when I was counting out every calorie and running six days a week. It does mean that I've lost muscle along with fat but given that I have been a mostly couch potato with only short bursts of exercise for all six years, that is understandable and means I have a lot to be gained by getting more consistent! In fact, there had been recent changes on the home scale that would probably have been reflected in the DEXA scan, if I had taken it a few months ago, changes that I think reflect the recent increase in exercise I have been doing. I also found out I carry the fat I do have in parts of my body that don't signal any health risk. Unsightly by media standards, yes, but unhealthy, no. And my bone density is very good heading into more senior years. All in all, it was a good use of my wealth. Shocked I had to drive about 45 minutes to get to the appt. but the business is opening a center right downtown so I will probably get it done again in a year. I think my health care provider won't offer it until I'm 65 and by then, I'll be on Medicare. Fifty-five bucks isn't cheap, but on a yearly basis, not bad. The printout is fun to look at, too!
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minimizer



Joined: 05 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious as to what you think is the reason for your good bone density?
Mine is of concern since I was recently told I'm now in the osteoporotic range
after a DEXA scan last year. I'm refusing the bisphosphonates...most drugs
frighten me quite a lot...I've seen the side-effects in my mother and others
and it is unsettling.
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RAWCOOKIE



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi! Thanks for the lovely comments on my thread - yes, we ARE lucky! I am really lucky to have found that I have the kind of brain that enjoys systems Smile
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minimizer, I don't know why the density is good. I hadn't exercised really consistently, but I did sometimes go through phases and kept up SOME African dance at various times. That's pretty bouncy. I was still able to walk for long distances and sometimes did a two-hour hike. I think of bone density being good from doing weight-bearing movement, but it may have been the luck of the draw. However, I now am even more inspired to move in order to keep it. I will add in some rope-jumping. That'a actually regarded as low impact, but I think it will be enough "irritation" to encourage the body to keep the leg bones solid.

I really can't claim much for diet, though I have been eating supposedly high-calcium veggies for decades. But I also ate enough of the foods that supposedly leach calcium that it wouldn't have been surprising if my bones were more porous.

Sorry you're facing this dilemma. I don't know what I would have done if the reading had been different besides go tell my doctor. But my understanding is that even if you eat "right," there has to be some stressor on the bone to make it keep strong, just like it's a stressor on a muscle that makes it tear and repair stronger.

BTW, all, I went back to my regular eating, good stuff, though I did fail yesterday. My weight shot up, which I expected, though not quite as high as it did. I was smiling, though, because it just proves how changeable weight is. There is no way I gained that much fat in a few days. I feel what my "real' weight is the weight I was. I won't weigh again until near the summer solstice.
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Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

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minimizer



Joined: 05 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting. I've been a walker for years, especially in the past 15+ years. I've read that depression can also contribute to low bone density and
I've also had that for year and years--only took antidepressant for less than
a year as I dislike side effects of meds. Anyway much better now though Smile
Good reminder about the bouncy-type exercise...I'll try to add that in.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to dwell on my body, but I found my old DEXA scan. I thought it was from much longer ago. It was in the summer of 2006. I weighed more then, but I put on another 30 lbs. after that before the turnaround with No S at the very end of 2009.

Another luck of the draw is that my body took more fat off the fattest areas. I thought the "formula" was that a person stored fat such that certain areas are the first to gain and the last to lose, but I lost 7% from the thickest layers (low waist and all hip area) and only 2% from less fluffy parts- arms and legs-, which means they now look fluffier! No, I'm not complaining. I know this is rather a repeat but it was interesting to me to see the detail. However, I found I lost a lot more muscle than I thought, though the ratio of muscle loss (16%) to fat loss (28%) was smaller. Man, it sure is easy to get caught up in measurements. But it's a pretty good picture of what's been going on. Diet pretty good, couch sitting also very good.
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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fascinating, Oolala, about your patterns of weight loss.

And I think I'm quite possibly the best weekend-couch warrior that ever lived. It's teaching that does it to us.

Speaking of, when do you get to retire?
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was hoping this June, but it looks like June 2017 will be it. I can't wrap my mind around longer than that, even though I'll be getting only about 40-sumpin'% of my pay. I think I'll just have to take my chances. The stats aren't very promising, and I actually do often go for that, as I did with No S, but I figure I'll have at least some good years before whatever catastrophe befalls me. But only the rich have the dough for catastrophe, anyway, and I can't compete with them. And I'm pretty good at living within my means.

A book I'm reading on retirement says if you have less than a million dollars in worth BESIDES your house and I forget what kind of income, your costs in retirement are likely to go UP. I guess that puts me in good company.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel almost like a traitor talking here about IF but it is my new mod and I am obsessed with it. I am vacillating about what system to use, but I don't feel I have to be too strict yet because I don't feel I am just bombing out on it for convenience. I fear committing to anything with calorie limits, but ended up today eating pretty low cal just because I never got hungry for dinner, and thus ate right in accordance with two of the programs I'm interested in. But I am eating breakfast tomorrow no matter what! I'm back to having to deal with how to fill the time, similarly to how I had to when I gave up snacks. And in my life in general, actually. Otherwise, it actually feels pretty good. I feel some of the lightness and pleasant hunger I did in my first years of No S, which was one of my goals.
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walkerlori



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya oolala!
Fellow traitor here...I've been doing various forms of IF for several years. I think it's a good fit with No S. Currently I'm doing 2 24 hr fasts a week. The remaining days are No S.
Keep calm and IF and No S on!
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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ironchef



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No S works with IF, with calorie counting, with low carb, and no one is a traitor. Reinhard always said he didn't specify 3 meals, just meals:-) I'm always interested in your wisdom here, whether vanilla or not.

On the BF scales vs DEXA scan: women generally read high on BF scales. This is because the test pulse will take the shortest path - up one leg and down the other. For women, who typically carry more fat on hips and thighs, this will give a high %. Men will often read low, due to more likelihood of belly fat and skinny legs. We were always taught to use the scales with other indicators, like hip to waist ratio. I guess you could take a reading doing a handstand on the scales and take an average?
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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey oolala, I say do whatever works for you. I know you've had a lot of frustrations over not feeling hungry so I'm happy to hear that IF has been able to help.

Do you mind sharing details about how often and long you do it for? Also, I know you didn't do it for weightloss but has that been a side effect or no?

I'm just very curious about it all!

Linda
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just going to give a few details even before I saw your post!

Ok, what I've generally been aiming at as a minimum is to do two 16-hour fasts, from dinner to the next day, about every third day. I thought I would work my way up to 24-hour fasts, dinner to dinner. I actually did one one day just because it felt easy. In the meantime, I had been reading about 5:2, on which you limit yourself to about 500 calories on a "fast" day, split into a couple of meals, or another version in which there's just one meal. I found I easily did this this week on one of the days. I had allowed myself on one day to have my morning latte at about 10:30 am, making for a 16-hour fast, and then had lunch at the regular time. I waited and waited to get hungry for dinner, but when I didn't, I just decided to skip it. Another time, I wasn't even hungry at 10:30, so I waited til lunch and again didn't get hungry for dinner, so went overnight. So it was like two 16+-hour fasts back to back. I don't know what I'd do if someone was expecting to eat with me! But I honestly wasn't hungry; the biggest problem was, as always, how to fill my time. Remember, I'm the gal that's so often procrastinating on the tasks of daily life; eating proper meals was always a very good excuse to ignore them. I STILL ignore them, and it's a lot more obvious since I have even more time to do them!

I can't really be sure I'm losing more because I refuse to weigh until the summer solstice, but a few people have commented, and pants that used to fit just about right are actually either rather loose around the waist or bag at the butt. It's funny because right before Christmas, a local thrift store had to close one of its locations and was selling stuff for a DOLLAR each. I bought some pants that were a little tight, something I wouldn't normally do, but for a BUCK... Just about everything fits okay now. I've finally donated some size 10's that had become too loose, and there's a pair I thought must be 10's, also loose, that I saw were 8's. Now, granted, sizes can be arbitrary, but I think there's a pattern.

But I couldn't make myself do it for weight loss nearly two years ago. The 16-hour thing sent me into a tizzy that lasted until the turn of this year. Screwy!

And in my first THREE years, it wasn't an issue in the sense that on N days, I did get hungry for my meals, loved them, and felt pretty happy with the gaps. I wouldn't have minded getting thinner but didn't feel I could reasonably ask myself for anything more. I will admit a little part of me worries about the damage I was doing to my brain during the extended Wild S days, but it just wasn't enough of a focus then, and I really didn't think I was doing any serious damage. It's possible I lucked out and didn't! But I can't go back now.

I also don't know if it's just honeymoon feelings, but I sometimes feel SO GOOD, though there's no pattern yet about when it comes on me. Could it really be true that this process is getting the body to cannibalize the weakest cells, as its posited? Or producing good feeling juice? The reason I think it might be true is because it wasn't an effect I believed would happen. I wasn't even shooting for it: too dangerous! I've been so disappointed before.

MAN, I hope this isn't going to be one of those things where I have to take it all back in two or three months. But I'm hopeful also because this feels authentic in the sense that I'm not forcing myself to starve. It actually feels much more natural to go ahead and wait to eat. I think it might be what....thin people do! If they're not really hungry at dinner, they either pick or even skip it. But I'm not trying to make myself do it every day.

I did do a little compensatory overeating the first few times, but that seems to have subsided. I didn't panic because I had survived it with wild S days and because none of it was on problems foods. I still kept to the MIND diet guidelines.

So, work in progress.
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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I'm tempted to give it a try but worried it'll cause problems with my reflux. I'm also concerned I'll have some backlash and all my hard work healing my relationship with food will go down the drain.

You've been at this a lot longer than I have though so clearly at different stages. You were ready and you're enjoying it so that's all that matters.

Thanks again for sharing your journey with us. I really enjoy seeing how your thinking develops over time.

Best of luck!

Linda
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though the researchers keep saying that the data show that intermittent fasters don't overcompensate, they also caution that those with an eating disorder not use the tactic. It certainly seems that there could be similarities to the restrict/binge cycle. I waited until I felt I had exhausted more mod options, including S days.

I forgot to mention that I had also pretty much given up any latte/mocha drinking between meals, too, before I tried this. I'm infatuated with the idea that gaps of 5 hours without caloric intake are valuable beyond the discipline, but that could be hokum. I'm fine with that for now.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had my first evening of feeling antsy about having fasted and wishing a bit for the evening to be over, while at the same time thinking, oh, there's just a few hours.

I got unusually impatient to eat lunch, though I had had as decent a breakfast as I usually do with no problem. I know on most IF programs,you're told to eat ad libitum on off days, and I did allow myself to do that a few times, failing on S days. But I don't wanna anymore. I was just barely getting hungry for dinner after lunch right about the time I got out of my class and could go home and eat, so that was very convenient. I feel very full now, which makes the prospect of another down day (I'm doing alternate days for at least two weeks) feel just fine. I'll start at home with tea and make optimized coffee for break and salmon with veggies for my meal. I will do without the coffee if I"m not hungry by break time. So far, the rest of the day has not been a big problem or no more than usual.

Okay, I'm pretty sure these pants are mis-sized but they are size 4. I had been wearing 8's for a couple of years, but also still fit some 10''s but recently gave all those away as they are really too loose. But I doubt just any 4's would fit. I seem to be a 6/8 now. I'm still surprised I'm not still a 10! I'm trying not to dwell on it much as I refuse to eat just to fit those sizes. If my routine stabilizes me where I am or even somehow raises my weight, I want to be fine with it. Sure, it's convenient to fit an image, but I'd trade it in a second for a happy marriage or a job I enjoyed. Those are MUCH harder to find, so I will keep eating sanely! THAT I can do.
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walkerlori



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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just stopping by to say hi and seeing how the IF is going.

Have you heard of Dr Jason Fung? He has written extensively on fasting and has many videos. He's a very entertaining writer.

His website is http://intensivedietarymanagement.com. It's chocked full of information.

PS..Keep eating sanely and I'll do the same.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, WL. I did stumble on Fung. I've listened to some of his stuff on fasting, but I don't know why because I am not close to having diabetes and wasn't considering fasting when I watched his stuff. I've seen later that he is a big proponent of low carb, it seems. I'm saving looking at more of his stuff for next winter, which is the soonest I would consider that, if ever. (I am a little curious about ketosis, and am feeling these days more able to experiment meal variations without sending me into overcompensation. But my spiritual philosophy classes have a vegetarian leaning, so the prospect of eating a lot of dead animals isn't thrilling.


But Fung's work is impressive. I'm amazed that he can get people to adhere to the protocol. It shocks me how much people want to be able to use meds to allow themselves to still eat foods that send their blood sugar soaring. But maybe it's like me keeping my stressful job. The cure looks more stressful than the illness

A male employee, a younger guy who used to work with me, was a little chunky then, and I could tell that he was a bit of a compulsive eater. He went on a diet one year, and you can probably guess what happened. I've seen him gain and gain and gain. He said to me yesterday," I've put on 40 lbs. and you've lost 40. How did you do it?" I was feeling a bit rebellious because I know when people ask that, they are almost always ready to look for the reason it won't work. I know I was that way! I actually said, laughing, "Why ask? You know you probably won't do it!" He laughed, too. Then I said, well, you know this has taken a few years. But I'll tell you the first thing is to eat three meals a day." He nodded, and we dropped it because we were kind of just passing each other. I'll send him a link to the site. I'd love to hold his hand through the process but I doubt he'll ask. It's so rare for a person to be able to apply the principles without help- besides our rational founder- because ANY "healthy" change is working against the cultural impetus, so the new paradigm has to keep getting reinforced. Not to mention the biological impetus for opportunistic eating.
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jackn



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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Oolala.
You seem to hang around less.

All's well?
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I signed on to some other sites and have spread myself a little thin. And I get bothered periodically that this focus is still so strong but my alternatives aren't more lofty.

I listened to an audiobook by a young woman who basically wrote a memoir of her journey from morbidly obese to mid-BMI range. I'd say one of the most important things was that the process to what sounded like a sense of balance took five years. And I know she had a medium relapse after her book was published but got back to moderation. Her odds are better because of how long she's been at it, but there are no guarantees. In reality, we're all at "during."

At a dance class festival waiting for the first one to start. I'll go to 8 classes between now and late Sunday afternoon. And staying at a cabin in da redwoods. Worth selling my soul to the education devil, for now.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this quote as a reality check for those who feel (or are) addicted to overeating, which I don't think Reinhard was. It just means that if we're waiting for something to be as easy and fun and exciting as food, or particular foods and large amounts of them, we will likely be waiting a long time. This is from the movie "Owning Mahowny," based on the true story of an addicted gambler.

Psychologist: How would you rate the thrill you got from gambling, on a scale of one to 100?
Dan Mahowny: Um... hundred.
Psychologist: And what about the biggest thrill you've ever had outside of gambling?
Dan Mahowny: Twenty.

This was after he was caught and served time in jail, I think. They omit the next part of the exchange, in which the shrink asks him how he feels about that. Mahowny says it's okay, meaning he is now willing to live without that thrill. The costs finally outweighed the benefits. As far as the internet knows, he is still living a quiet life away from gambling.

Are there things as fun and exciting as food in my life? A few, but NONE as convenient. Do I still wish I could experience that thrill at will? Yes, but I'm willing to live with that. Maybe things will change and the desire will die out completely, but I'm willing to live without that, too. What this means is that even after six and half years, No S is not completely automatic, nor without its irritating, uncomfortable moments, but the alternatives are even worse. And it's still pretty fun!
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jackn



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, Oolala, poetry.

Helps.

Thank you kindly.
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jackn



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:


You are too kind! Thanks.


Hope you don't mind, thought this belonged here, where originally posted.

Watching the movie.
Will get back.
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jackn



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very glad to have watched it.
Thank you again, oolala.

Some more from and about the movie.
And about all addictions, of course.
And, thus, myself.

Mahowny, the gambling addict, stays by the gambling table even after his girlfriend, having waited for him in their room during their special long weekend on their own, has come over to ask him to join her, and got pulled away by security.

Later:
Mahowny: I never meant to leave you alone. I...
Blin: It's OK, I understand.
Mahowny: You do?
B: You gotta do what you gotta do.
(M looks incredulous at this reprieve)
I know you can't help yourself, Dan.
You got a gambling problem, and we're gonna deal with this `
together.
M: No, Blin, you don't understand.
B: No, I've been reading up about this, and the first thing you gotta do is
admit it to yourself.
M: Blin, you've got things wrong.
B: Just say it, Dan.
If you just say it!
M: I don't have a gambling problem.
B: Do you think I'm an idiot?!
M: I have a... financial problem.
B: You owe money?
M: Yes.
...
B: Did we go to Vegas so you could clear a gambling debt?
(M staring into the air at a loss for words)
'Cause you know why I thought we went there?
I mean when I saw the room and everything...
I mean, what was I supposed to think?
Why do people go to Vegas?
I thought we were gonna get married!
I mean, that's what normal people do in Vegas.
It's not how I'd have planned it, but if you'd asked, I'd have said...
'yes'.
M: I'm sorry.
I'm... sorry.

While every addiction movie is a grim downward spiral, this one has a nice twist at the end.
From memory:
After the conversation cited above by Oolala, after Dan rated at only twenty the best thrill other than gambling he's ever had...

the shrink: How do you feel about living on a max of twenty for the rest
of your life?
M: OK.

One last bit, from Wikipedia, about Philip Seymour Hoffman, who played he part of Mahowny:
Although friends stated that Hoffman's drug use was under control at the time, on February 2, 2014 he was found dead in the bathroom of his Manhattan apartment by a friend. Hoffman was 46 years old. Detectives searching the apartment found heroin and prescription medications at the scene, and revealed that he was discovered with a syringe in his arm.

The picture is clear.
Less is more.

I've been on my second binge in three days after eighty sober days, namely no binges.
I'm in an especially susceptible mood.

I'm calling it a day.
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jackn



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next day, one more thing, somewhat related.

These days, African colleagues at work, and neighborhood shopkeepers observe the Ramadan fast.
I know from experience that fasting isn't for me, but somehow it does something to me.
'Haunt' would be way too strong, but, as I inquire about their experience, and witness the community around the experience, the isolation from the surrounding, relatively heathen, but culturally Christian, environment, these days given to football idolatry, as I hear about either the relative ease or the privation of not smoking, I can't but feel a pang given my own relationship and obsession with food.
Gives me pause, to say the least.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually did add the part about how Mahowny (in movie) said he as going to be okay with highs of 20 rather than the 100 of gambling. I sometimes imagine eating A LOT Costco cake with frosting, or a tube of cookie dough and actually don't rule it out because goll durn it, it's not heroin. But unlike in the past, I don't have any plan for when. Certainly not in the near future. I feel there's more at stake now. In fact, at this point, it would probably only be if I were diagnosed with a terminal illness. And it would just be a one-day thing. Then I would probably get even more strict in my eating.

Had a scone out with a friend this a.m. and will have dinner out, too. Gonna check the menu before I fix lunch so I can balance things, if I want.
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jackn



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to get into the weeds when we share.

Scone with a friend sounds great to me.
Probably the best occasion to splurge, when in company.

The 20/100 bit I relate to a great deal.

At my age, my biggest belief, to which I've come gradually, and which needs constant upkeep, is that there's no salvation.
And the binges and overeating often have to do with the obstinate refusal of this simple reality.
I'm always lacking, desiring, needing, restless...
It's called life.

And, so, 20 is ok (and I'd say 80) is really the recognition that there's no 100.
Whatever offers the illusion of 100 is fleeting and either a lie or very damaging.

It's all good.
And I'm grateful for the blessings.

Enjoy eating out.
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MaggieMae



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting conversation about the movie oolala and jackn! I've never seen it. I'm guilty of looking at others and saying' why do they keep doing drugs/smoking/drinking, etc' . I keep telling myself that my addiction isn't THAT serious. Even when I see relatives who are diabetic eating a crappy diet and being50 pounds overweight. I think if I were in their position, I could change my diet. But could i? Hmmm, but I'm willing to accept the impact on my self esteem and not able to exercise as much as I could when I was a healthy weight. Thanks for sharing! I'll do some more soul searching on this subject.
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jackn



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why, MaggieMae, how kind and interesting.

What do you think, oolala?

I share your thoughts about addiction, MaggieMae.
I think they're automatic, and I don't feel bad about having them. Yet, for a long while now, I'm all too aware of how I'm exactly like 'them'.

The idea of 'they' and 'me' is exactly my way of not seeing myself.
I turn away from the obese man walking down the street because I can't stand the reminder of what I am.

I try to be compassionate towards others and myself.
I've got some work cut out for me.
I don't mean 'compassionate' in a vague, vacuous kind of way.
I mean remembering that we're creatures of our time, that we're all trying our best and groping in the dark, and that, finally, I'm necessarily and forever fallible and imperfect.
It's by no means depressing or discouraging to me.
It's more like 'it's OK... it's OK, baby, it's OK'.

Thank you, oolala and MaggieMae, for giving rise to this conversation and allowing it.
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kaalii



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jackn wrote:

The idea of 'they' and 'me' is exactly my way of not seeing myself.
I turn away from the obese man walking down the street because I can't stand the reminder of what I am.

I try to be compassionate towards others and myself.
I've got some work cut out for me.
I don't mean 'compassionate' in a vague, vacuous kind of way.
I mean remembering that we're creatures of our time, that we're all trying our best and groping in the dark, and that, finally, I'm necessarily and forever fallible and imperfect.
It's by no means depressing or discouraging to me.
It's more like 'it's OK... it's OK, baby, it's OK'.



so beautiful and resonates with me, too!!!! Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you kindly, Kaali.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMGosh, after what I said, I got overtaken by the thought of cake and had a binge. It scared me. It was on a day that was going fine. I did not think I was going to take that kind of chance on something that can't be measued until it's too late. But it can be a fine line to find the right attitude. Panic and doom doesn't work but neither does minimizing. Well, I had a good day yesterday, and that always feels good. I actually haven't had two good days in a row for awhile. I've got to try to remember what an accomplishment it will feel like if I have one again today.

I know some might think the news I'm going to give right now is the cause, but I've pondered this and really don't see it. My best friend (she's mine; I'm not hers) is leaving town today with 90% of her stuff packed in a Penske truck. Part of me doesn't believe we won't still be seeing each other, even though we'll be 9 hours apart, partly because I think I might be moving myself, though where I go I'll probably still be three hours away, in a few years after I retire. I guess those thoughts are just ways for me to let myself down slowly and hope I'll have other supports in place by the time it gets clear that our time for frequent interaction is over.
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Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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jackn



Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 635
Location: France

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
Well, I had a good day yesterday, and that always feels good.


So, quick rebound, it seems.
And, it's helpful to us all to learn about the nitty-gritty experience of a veteran NoS-er.

Bummer about the best friend.
I don't think anyone knows better than you do the whys and wherefores, and no one can, can they, second guess you.

Every closing door, though, don't you think, is a million others opening.

Thanx for sharing, and good luck.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish I felt the door thing more in my life. Just don't. Or maybe I'm picky about what's behind the doors. Oy vey. I'm aware I have a ton to be grateful for, but it doesn't stop me from still feeling antys below the surface a lot. Been working on that longer than on food. MUCH harder. I often tell people that yes, there are things harder to work on in life than eating! The title of one of Linda Spangle's books often comes to mind: Life is Hard, Food is Easy. (I'm judicious in looking at her works because though she doesn't emphasize "diets," she talks a lot about focusing on losing weight as the goal of the changing thinking and doing. Danger! Danger! at least for me.)

Just as the process of things coming together before I took on No S didn't feel under my control but just a building of knowledge and experience, this will likely get unknotted the same way. But just like I got with diets, I'm cautious these days about the touted cures. At the same time, I see now that if we could take away the sense of dire straits and the equating of failures with self-worth, even a lot of the failing on diets didn't need to be so painful. In the end, I do eat rather similarly to what was overall recommended on previous diets, including the limited amounts. I can't defy physics. Or not so far.

AND you are a doll for caring. Such a precious tribe, here!
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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ironchef



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 1459
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear about your friend, be kind to yourself while you mourn this change. My dearest friend moved away many years ago to London. And the truth is, no new activity or friend has ever filled that place. Nor should they.
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jackn



Joined: 16 Mar 2016
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Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
if we could take away the sense of dire straits and the equating of failures with self-worth, even a lot of the failing on diets didn't need to be so painful


Thanx.
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jackn



Joined: 16 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to say hello, oolala.

Hope to hear from you soon.
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catching up--so sorry to hear your friend has moved--that leaves such a void. Praying a new friend comes along who will also be special.
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Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of Monday, November 30, 2015.

1 year and counting!

28 lbs. down, 35 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"Surrender to the sensible." - Yellowtulips
"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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walkerlori



Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 987
Location: new mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just stopping by to say hi.
I'm sorry about the loss of your friend.
You are such a valued member of this community. Your thoughtful response on my thread was the reason I (finally) began to look inward. I'm in a better place because of your wise words.
Have a terrific 4th my No S friend...
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, everyone!

Kept thinking I would sit down and really take time to catch up, which I still might do, but not now...

Just reporting that I lost 4 lbs. overnight! I'm ecstatic!

I'm kidding. About being ecstatic. I am SO aware that it is just a fluctuation of water. Or maybe I really DID burn 14,000 calories more than I ate yesterday. Shocked
Yes, I"m experimenting with weighing, mostly to see if I can unhook from the varying sense of approval and satisfaction or their opposites, but it may be so ingrained into our wiring to want even fake superiority (by the absurd cultural value) that I may eventually let myself off the rollercoaster. Been reading a book called If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Happy? More on that later. (But will say that even though it hasn't been pinpointed in the book yet, in a related interview, the author said educated people and achievers actually often have a harder time feeling happiness. Cold comfort.)
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For various reasons, not all of them laudable, I experimented this week with a LCHF plan, one that required eating only 17 carbs or less a day. I don't think I made it most days because I liberally chewed sugarless gum, which turns out to have 2 carbs a stick. So I don't know if the plan would have had different effects if I had been stricter, but it will be a while before I try it again to find out! I did find that if I were in a situation where I was extremely busy and felt I didn't have time to eat, it would be a very effective way to get eating over with. I even tracked calories- made it easier to add up the carb intake- and I had days I ate less than 900 calories without any hunger. But it didn't stop me from wanting to eat anyway. That can happen to me with any kind of meal, though.

I am SO looking forward to my S day tomorrow! I even purposely planned going with a meetup group to a vegetarian Indian dinner. Two rice dishes, lentils and beans, samosas, roti, and more. Quel difference!
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1396

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
Just reporting that I lost 4 lbs. overnight! I'm ecstatic!

I'm kidding. About being ecstatic. I am SO aware that it is just a fluctuation of water. Or maybe I really DID burn 14,000 calories more than I ate yesterday. Shocked


Laughing LOL, yes! I laugh when the scale does a big drop and when it does a big hike, because I know neither is "real" loss or gain. Helps me not take it all too seriously.

oolala53 wrote:

Yes, I"m experimenting with weighing, mostly to see if I can unhook from the varying sense of approval and satisfaction or their opposites, but it may be so ingrained into our wiring to want even fake superiority (by the absurd cultural value) that I may eventually let myself off the rollercoaster. Been reading a book called If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Happy? More on that later. (But will say that even though it hasn't been pinpointed in the book yet, in a related interview, the author said educated people and achievers actually often have a harder time feeling happiness. Cold comfort.)


It's sad, isn't it? What should be something to rejoice over (being a healthy weight--not abnormally skinny like some of the ads etc...), our culture has made into so many other things (self-absorption, superiority/inferiority, grossly redefining beauty as something purely superficial and often unattainable, etc...)

I think weighing daily for now is something that helps me keep on track overall for my weightloss goals. I hope it helps you "unhook" as you said from the faulty image structures our culture sets up.
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Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of Monday, November 30, 2015.

1 year and counting!

28 lbs. down, 35 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"Surrender to the sensible." - Yellowtulips
"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7760
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Merry!

I've actually been avoiding my thread as I'm in a phase in which I'm experimenting with some pretty non-canonical tactics. I feel a little sad about it because I was so happy for so long on No S and I still believe it's the best first line of defense for at least 80% of people out there. In fact, it continues to be the fall back position, and I still feel good cheering others on.

The following might just be repeating myself, but I can't stand the idea of reading back over my thread right now.

My sadness is over the fact that, like I used to do on S days, I continue to feel preoccupied with wishing I was hungry for more food. Even when I'm not hungry or even when I get full from a meal, I still often long for more, for wanting to get stuffed and eat certain sweets I have to feel pretty full not to want more, and even then, can be ready to have something else after a relatively short hiatus. I just can't seem to find enough to divert myself from this. I do sometimes spontaneously get distracted, but it's unpredictable. I often feel rather helpless to solve this. I've even considered biting the LCHF bullet, as another problem is that my digestion of my beloved fibrous carbs has become increasingly uncomfortable,and because there are so many claims that it kills the sugar desire. But I'm not very confident it will actually take care of the problem.

I may be perpetuating it as well with my use of stevia, but I still love my white coffee with stevia so much that it also makes me sad to think of giving IT up, too. I stopped drinking it between meals, which has magnified the between-meal desire to eat; it's hard to imagine not missing it a lot if I took it away. It's such a good way to "punctuate" ending a meal, or sometimes starting off a very earhly day. (I can easily wake up at 3 or 4 am, and waiting until an approprite time to have breakfast before work can be hard. Coffee can get me through.)


I guess it's a little like knowing your marriage used to be great but finding yourself annoyed with your mate a lot of the time and not having much evidence any more of what made you fall in love in the first place. But you know your odds of finding someone better aren't good, and it's not bad enough to make you think you'd be better off alone.

So I'm trying to get the thrill back, but to keep my cool while I do and it doesn't work. And I'm annoyed that here I am six years later having eating play such a big role in my life. I wanted to be done with this!

I'm experimenting with just thinking of it like having a chronic low-grade illness. My spiritual teacher, who has actually had some serious health problems, surgeries included, says it is possible to have pain and problems and still be happy in life, to still have what he calls a backdrop of peace and happiness. Yes, a tall order, but it's been an intriguing one for me for a long time.

Though I did suspect that there was a possibility I could get back to my high school weight (about 15-20 lbs. heavier than the thin, admired girls), I had gotten to the point at which I said my heavier body might be as good as it gets, and that concentrating on hunger and pleasure would have to be enough. Now I have to find new measures, and it may just be knowing I'm doing the "right" thing, "taking my medicine," and accepting the results, being grateful that things aren't worse! I know that sounds unpleasantly stoic, but really, I've tried a lot, and here I am.

So, for right now, here's to good enough being good enough.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3257
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry you're still having some frustrations oolala. I totally relate to the preoccupation with food. I feel like it's just always going to be apart of my life though.

I've even looked back at journals I kept when I was 10 years old and there lists of foods I ate that day and plans for trying to eat less & exercise more. I found similar lists in my journals from my 20s, 30s and 40s. I think the only difference now is that I know it's just a game I play with myself.

My life really won't be that much better off if I lose another 5, 10 or even 20 lbs. But sometimes I'm grateful for the distraction. Thinking about food & weight is a lot less scary than a lot of other things I could be dwelling on. It's my safe place I can go to when things feel too overwhelming.

Anyway not sure what my point is other than that maybe it's not all bad? As far as the stevia goes. I don't know, I think it's fine. I think you need to allow some pleasures into your life. Btw, do you have other non-food ways to indulge yourself? You deserve happiness so I hope you actively seek it. Smile

Sorry I know I'm not much help but do wish you best of luck on your journey.

Linda
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