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oolala53
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7491
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"It's my safe place I can go to when things feel too overwhelming." Ah, you've seen it, too.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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bunsofaluminum



Joined: 15 May 2016
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a quote on my fridge.

Losing weight is hard
Maintaining weight is hard.
Being overweight is hard.
Choose your hard.

Which I'm sure isn't super helpful, but it's realistic. I fought so hard against parts of myself, for years, and finally stopped fighting it in 2012. So so SO tired of fighting, and struggling even with stress based physical ailments that completely exhausted me. When the emotional/mental anguish of hating myself lifted, I had peace FINALLY. Inner calm is so lovely...then I saw my physical self and said DANGIT...even though I didn't want to fight, and I no longer was fighting what I had for so many years, I still had this dang blasted WEIGHT to deal with.

Lo! and behold! there was still a fight in my life. blargh.

And No S, with its miraculous sanity about food, has made a huge difference for me....BUT...every day, I still have mid afternoon stomach nudges and not too long ago, sugar cravings hit out of the blue. IOW, though some fights have receded from my life, there are others that stepped up almost immediately to take their place, and when/if I am able to cease fighting this insane appetite which I have trained well to be a beast, another fight in some other area of my life will try to take my legs out from under me.

I like the wisdom of your spiritual teacher...behind all of it, there can be happiness and joy, even if there is ALWAYS a fight (there always will be)

Carry on, I'm sure it is worth it
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1280

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bunsofaluminum wrote:
I have a quote on my fridge.

Losing weight is hard
Maintaining weight is hard.
Being overweight is hard.
Choose your hard.


So true (and I think the reminder that we are making choices is good too--so often I just sort of "default" and wonder how I got there. Well, I did choose that road, even if I wasn't being very conscious about it--or honest with myself...)
_________________
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of Monday, November 30, 2015.

1 year and counting!

27 lbs. down, 36 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"Surrender to the sensible." - Yellowtulips
"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7491
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Buns Wink and Merry.

Been thinking about the scale. These are not new thoughts, nor original ones, but come from readings in the anti-diet world of 35 years ago, but still ring true. What a shame. I don't know about anyone else, but for me that connection to the number on the scale is so ingrained, so automatic, that it always takes some inner mental gyrations to counterbalance it. It's one of the reasons I didn't weigh for years. I wonder if it can really be undone, irrational as it is.

I've been experimenting with some different mods this whole year and started weighing, not because that was the point, but to see if they did affect my weight. I have to admit that I do feel pleased that doing something I consider good for other reasons results in my being smaller- and I question that and feel some disapproval for myself over it. Why is being smaller better? It's not just because I feel physically better because at this point, it's only a marginal difference and still doesn't match how good I felt on Vanilla three years ago, weighing 20 lbs. more. No, it's about that automatic connection we make to the fear that we will become an object of disapproval, mostly from people we don't even know. I don't like the idea that other people's admiration for something I don't think should be that meaningful has that much influence on me. It means I am caught by this ridiculously narrow arbitrary cultural standard, too. Aren't I better and wiser than that? Why do I have to work so hard over and over to remember it?

This doesn't mean I think it would be a good idea to let the primal tendency to opportunistic overeating run free and completely ignore weight. But I know that lightning fast visceral reaction to the scale does NOT represent anything rational. That kind of reaction is rooted in the very basic biology of fear, fear of loss of status, approval, and under that, fear of actually dying because of a primal desire to belong to the group for safety and pleasure is going to be thwarted. Yes, I know this isn't obvious, but why else would it seem so important? I mean, if people really truly believed that they would be accepted and loved at a higher weight, that their weight would never be a reason others rejected them, i.e., think they aren't attractive enough, would they really get as emotional about it as they do? Would a large percentage of people say ina survey that they would rather get hit by a truck than be obese? If it were really about health, would they really say they'd rather have something so unhealthy happen to them to avoid it? Please!

Nearly all fear can be connected to a basic fear for survival. It used to be for in-the-moment danger but now it's mostly about a sense of status and acceptability because of our innate knowledge that it's very unlikely we can survive on our own.

If I really really believed I was safe in all the meanings that implies, that I could find enough group support to get the necessities of survival and some pleasure beyond that, would it matter what I weighed, unless the weight itself actually did represent a threat to my survival? I don't think so. But that fear of not belonging and thus not living is very deep.

Writing all this, I'm intrigued to think I could undo the connection. It's obviously not undone because the reaction still comes. Could it ever really be "just a number," as the scale proponents often claim? Research shows that those who weigh lose more weight (though it turns out it's not very much more). Can they prove that it doesn't come at the cost of fear and shame? That those people who weigh less aren't driven by a deep fear of not being loved, which turns about to be a lie? That we're driven by a lie?

Is that worth it?
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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BrightAngel



Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 2082
Location: Central California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Scale and size acceptance thoughts Reply with quote

Great Post. Very Happy
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e-lyn



Joined: 23 May 2016
Posts: 198

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala, I very much enjoy reading your thoughtful posts. I agree with your basic premise on this one regarding fear. And I have to add that the ingrained, primal fear we experience around weight gain, although irrational in our modern society, may still be connected to the very real difficulties of being overweight. Let's be honest and this is not meant to be fat-shaming (for the record, I could stand to lose about 50 pounds), being heavy makes life (survival) harder even under the best of circumstances. Being overweight is hard on the body. It can affect a young woman's fertility and desirability. I imagine it's true for men as well. Caloric needs are generally higher. Physical work, even taking care of small children, is more difficult. As we age, the extra weight impacts our health and ability to care for our personal needs and hygiene. So even 'survival' in the modern world is more difficult. Intellectually, we may know and appreciate our intrinsic value as humans. But our survival mechanisms tell us it's just not right to carry around so much extra. How to reconcile the two and make some peace with it? I'm still working on this.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7491
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I can't remember feeling "big" when I was heavier unless I also overate.There were even times I was fitter than I am now. But I knew I was "caught" by food, and that bothered me enough to make changes.

Despite any difficulties we perceive, and they are real, there are cultures in which women would have NO feelings of fear or shame over the scale going up, and I guess they feel the movement problems are worth the benefits of fat. In several middle eastern countries, where fast food is working its magic on an already heavy population, one of the problems doctors have in convincing women to lose weight is that the women fear their husbands won't want them any more. The scale going DOWN engenders the same primal fear we get for the opposite reason. But even if I lived there, I wouldn't want to live with that kind of overeating.

Keep going, e-lyn!
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1280

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thoughts. I think acceptance/rejection is a big part of it, and especially if weight was an issue during childhood. I was usually slightly overweight, but not terribly so, and I think I escaped some of the deeply damaging emotions that some people endure who had more of a childhood struggle.

I like what you said about feeling "caught" by food, because that kind of thing has bothered me as well.
_________________
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of Monday, November 30, 2015.

1 year and counting!

27 lbs. down, 36 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"Surrender to the sensible." - Yellowtulips
"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what it would be like to overeat and not feel one bit bad about it? Much as I imagine rural women may have felt 150 years ago.

I've come to the conclusion that I have to regard myself as having a mild chronic illness. I can't expect to follow NO S feeling the same sense of ease and pleasure. It's not No S's fault. My body just doesn't deal with food the way it used to. I can now eat a perfectly reasonable meal, even a small one, and feel a little nauseous or way too full. My doctor did a blood test for gluten intolerance (somethign I"ve never thought I'd be susceptible to) but I haven't heard any results. She also tested for thyroid. Totally normal.

I have to admit I will not take the news of gluten intolerance gladly. I love my gluten!

My doctor doesn't actually think that's my problem, though. She thinks it's my emotions. But that's even worse, because I've been working on those issues for years to not much avail.

Bu I realize t I'd been straying from No S for analogous reasons to what I used to. I used to think well, if I can't have the love,job, etc. that I want, then I"m just going to eat more. Or previous to that, if I sacrifice but don't get the weight results I want, then I'm just going to eat more. So recently, it's been since I don't get the same pleasure from hunger, savoring, and satiety, I'm just going to eat more. Why should I eat "right' if it doesn't make me feel better?

But it doesn't matter if I feel better from it. It's basically a sane eating pattern. I will still be doing little experiments, but neither letting myself eat a package of pretzels at a time nor permasnacking on S days will be one of them. I will be trying different eating windows and macronutrient ratios. But it's pretty loose. I won't talk much about the changes until after I've implemented them for awhile.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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LifeisaBlessing



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
I wonder what it would be like to overeat and not feel one bit bad about it? Much as I imagine rural women may have felt 150 years ago.

I've come to the conclusion that I have to regard myself as having a mild chronic illness. I can't expect to follow NO S feeling the same sense of ease and pleasure. It's not No S's fault. My body just doesn't deal with food the way it used to. I can now eat a perfectly reasonable meal, even a small one, and feel a little nauseous or way too full. My doctor did a blood test for gluten intolerance (somethign I"ve never thought I'd be susceptible to) but I haven't heard any results. She also tested for thyroid. Totally normal.

I have to admit I will not take the news of gluten intolerance gladly. I love my gluten!

My doctor doesn't actually think that's my problem, though. She thinks it's my emotions. But that's even worse, because I've been working on those issues for years to not much avail.

Bu I realize t I'd been straying from No S for analogous reasons to what I used to. I used to think well, if I can't have the love,job, etc. that I want, then I"m just going to eat more. Or previous to that, if I sacrifice but don't get the weight results I want, then I'm just going to eat more. So recently, it's been since I don't get the same pleasure from hunger, savoring, and satiety, I'm just going to eat more. Why should I eat "right' if it doesn't make me feel better?

But it doesn't matter if I feel better from it. It's basically a sane eating pattern. I will still be doing little experiments, but neither letting myself eat a package of pretzels at a time nor permasnacking on S days will be one of them. I will be trying different eating windows and macronutrient ratios. But it's pretty loose. I won't talk much about the changes until after I've implemented them for awhile.


oolala--this post is gold! Smile Especially the part I bolded--that is absolutely one of the issues I still struggle with, and (what I suspect) is one of the hardest things to deal with during the "maintenance" or "during" phase. It actually could be a major cause for so-called "falling off the wagon," regaining, etc.

I'll be curious to hear about your experiments with macronutrient ratios. That's one of the things I've been working with lately, and I've definitely noticed a difference in how I feel, function, and in satiety levels based on adjusting the amounts of the three macronutrients. I'm guessing that these ratios are highly individualistic form person-to-person, but it's always interesting comparing notes! Smile
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1280

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:

I used to think well, if I can't have the love,job, etc. that I want, then I"m just going to eat more.


Yeah, I have often followed similar thought patterns. Today I really wanted to feed the emotions and had to keep telling myself I didn't *really* want that...and wouldn't you know it, I drove by Culver's and they had my favorite flavor of the day up? I avoided it by reminding myself I've tasted that before, I'll taste it again, but why do I so strongly want to treat myself when the real issue is emotional? I think inside I view it as self-nurture. I've been trying to wrap my brain around what Reinhard means in the book when he says...something like that this is showing self-hatred or that it's really being mean to self. That's not the word he uses...I need to go look it up again. I keep thinking there's a truth in there but I'm missing a couple of connecting dots.

Anyway--sorry you are struggling. I would hope it wasn't gluten too...I'm not sure that would be an easier problem for me to deal with! But emotions are so...messy...unpredictable...not easily "solved." Praying you find some answers.
_________________
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of Monday, November 30, 2015.

1 year and counting!

27 lbs. down, 36 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"Surrender to the sensible." - Yellowtulips
"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7491
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, all! So blessed here.

I chose to eat low today. It's one of the experiments. I said I wasn't going to talk much about them, but want to record. I had chicken soup- homemade broth from a LOT of bones, chicken, and vegetables. That was at lunch time, with only slight hunger. Nothing but tea since then, and still no hunger. If my life were fuller, it might be a real advantage!

A neighbor saw me loading free mulch into the back of my Scion and offered to help me load up the back of his pickup and haul it to my place. We ended up hauling two loads, one for me and one for my next door neighbor. It also turned out the hauler knows my previous tenant! She and his wife when to UCSD together. Boy, howdy.

Even with all that work, no hunger. But desire. Geesh. Why don't I just eat?Because I won't feel physically good if I do. Not worth it.

First world problems...
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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LifeisaBlessing



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting observations on how your hunger levels felt on Monday! Are you doing anything specific with your meals that you think contribute to less hunger during your day? More protein? All homemade food?
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No different from when I didn't have this "problem." I don't think protein or whole food can take away hunger for 8, 12, 20 hours. And I wasn't hungry today after a hunk of sweets at a potluck yesterday. But thanks for thinking of me.

The most annoying part is that the whole issue gets as much attention from me as being on a diet.

Reminds me of John Stuart Mill's observation: Ask yourself if you are happy and you cease to be so. In my case, it's ask myself if I"m hungry and I'm probably not, but I wanna eat, so I cease to be happy!

Waa waa.

Haven't said before that one of the things that worries me a little is that even though I have about the same LBM as I did years ago, since I"ve lost a lot of weight in that time, it also means I lost a fair amount of muscle along with the fat. I am doing more activity now, but that can be tricky when calorie intake is down. I'd rather not lose anymore muscle, but I also don't want to just eat.

Enough! There are other things to think about.

Oh, a food thing but not actually related. I"m going on a retreat for a week, leaving 9/16, starting it 9/17. I've decided I'm going to try to buy NO groceries between now and when I leave. I'm going to just make do with what I have, which is embarrassingly a lot. I'm going to try to get most of it from fridge and freezer. Depending on how low inventory gets, I may cook up some stores, or open a can or two of salmon, but I'd even like to avoid that. And I've got an orange tree in the yard with a fair amount of fruit. There are a lot of people in the world living on a lot less, and a lot less variety.

I MAY break down and buy a few veggies, but that's IT.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.


Last edited by oolala53 on Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like living out of pantry for a few days every once in awhile. Forces me to use stuff I've long forgotten about and helps save money.

It must be nice not wanting to lose more weight or is it ?

I hope your retreat is fun/enlightening!

Linda
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BrightAngel



Joined: 09 Apr 2008
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Location: Central California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to let you know that I always enjoy reading your thoughts. Smile
Thanks for sharing them.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm flattered! Nice to see you, BrightAngel.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's been nearly a month and lots has gone on. A lot of it very uncomfortable and frustrating. I have felt at times just as caught and disgusted as the old days, and almost cried over the idea that it was all back. I don't think I've had a reoccurrence of the epiphany I felt I had before I started No S in earnest nearly 7 years ago, but I had some of the old ability to see how much the neurochemical patterns could produce very compelling thoughts and that my best bet was just holding out for the lovely leftovers I had at home. I actually never used habitcal much before, but today, imagining being able to have four days of green after my red yesterday actually helped.

All I have time for now. Night night.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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RAWCOOKIE



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find those little green squares ridiculously motivating!

Rolling Eyes
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RAWCOOKIE wrote:
I find those little green squares ridiculously motivating!

Rolling Eyes


Me too!

Hang in there, Oolala. We're rooting for you Cool
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Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of Monday, November 30, 2015.

1 year and counting!

27 lbs. down, 36 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"Surrender to the sensible." - Yellowtulips
"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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minimizer



Joined: 05 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw, hang in there. You can and you will! You da best!!
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bunsofaluminum



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merry wrote:
RAWCOOKIE wrote:
I find those little green squares ridiculously motivating!

Rolling Eyes


Me too!

Hang in there, Oolala. We're rooting for you Cool



Me three. Smile
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clarinetgal



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to start using HabitCal again. I'm sure the green squares would be very motivating.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Hoo, boy. I didn't use it. Would it have made the difference?

I gotta say, I admit that I'm tired of the whole thing these days. Perhaps if I get some real rest, I'll feel different. But I'm not actually upset about it, either.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry it's been so difficult lately. Praying you can get some better rest. That makes a big difference for me.
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Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of Monday, November 30, 2015.

1 year and counting!

27 lbs. down, 36 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"Surrender to the sensible." - Yellowtulips
"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've awakened at 2 or 3 the last few nights. Once I corrected papers, but other nights, I've tried to do some meditation techniques. It's the best I can do. But I guess I could also find that paper with the number for a sleep "course" by Kaiser... I guess I don't have a lot of faith that I'll learn something I don't know. But I might change health care providers, so I'd better take advantage of it soon.

Two green days. Amazing that it feels like such a feat. It used to be par for the course! I'd like to think it can be again, but these days, I'm trying to do it and stay distant at the same time. I refuse to feel bad about myself for my eating! But I am using habitcal. I will not dwell on reds, but I will remember and look forward to greens-- in a light and breezy way, I hope.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.


Last edited by oolala53 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you're working through this rough spot with a good attitude! I know you'll come out of this fine.

Best of luck!

Linda
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ModBod



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey oolala53 I am SO with you on not beating yourself up about 'reds' but holding to it lightly. I hope you get better sleep soon, I think it makes all the difference tbh. I can face the same situation completely differently depending on how much sleep I've had...
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel torn about compliments that have to do with weight loss and thinness. In one way, I'm flattered, but I also have such resentment about how strongly women especially are pressured to be slim and even to bond over the effort when there is so much more to be concerned with.

But I'll report one. I overheard some colleagues at lunch discussing something about dieting and weight loss; I think someone new to the group was talking about a diet. One of the women said that I am her hero in regards to this. A few of them know in general what I do and I heard a few murmurs about sweets and snacks on weekends, and also that I eat so healthy. I didn't bother to yell out, "Not all the time!" I just tend to make "healthy" lunches; it's a routine now. Besides, whatever the entree is, I add some greens and a couple of denser veggies and it looks darn healthy! I guess it is, in comparison.

The woman who said I eat healthy is interesting because she has a body most of us would kill for; she eats quite a lot at times, and stresses over it. She mourns loving a big restaurant burger, and said she eats two or three pieces of Costco pizza (I once did an experiment of eating a slice of it at 1 pm and tracking to see how long it took to get hungry- 9 hours before I felt a teeny twinge) at a time. (She's not a permasnacker, I don't think, nor one to binge on sweets.) I don't think I ever hear her say she feels bloated or stuffed afterwards. I know it's not over weight. She worries more about the health effects, but apparently not as much as she worries about the pleasure she thinks she would give up by eating differently.

A pretty green week.

I meant to point out that I corrected a statement that said I didn't want to lose anymore. I meant muscle, but I don't want to aim at losing, either.

I'm actually trying to not wish for ANYTHING to be different, though I do aim at Vanilla. I know it sounds confusing and is. I'm just so tired of feeling I have so many expectations for how I and everyone else should behave and we so often don't. It's just wearing me out, though it's not conscious.

What's it like to live life not feeling that I'm supposed to improve myself?
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Amy3010



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly what I've been thinking a lot about lately, as my 50th birthday approaches: what if I could just let go of that feeling that I need to improve myself? What if I could just accept the weight I am on my birthday and be satisfied with that? Could I go on and live the rest of my life content with my body and moderate eating habits with occasional enjoyable splurges?

The thing is, the feeling of needing to improve myself is so ingrained and has been with me for so long that I have no idea what it would feel like to give it up. Just contemplating it is scary, like looking into a deep abyss. But there is something in me that is becoming very resistant to continually beating myself up for another 10, 20, 30 years...I agree with you - it's exhausting.
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kaalii



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it brings to mind a saying that resonates deeply with me:
"no amount of self-improvement beats self-acceptance!"
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, friends. Wish there was an icon for hugs.
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Strawberry Roan



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi oolala and all,

Haven't been around much, have been practicing 5:2 fasting and have been logging into a daily challenge on their board - but this board will always be home !

oolala, as I just posted I have joined the fasting crowd as that is really how I have eaten most of my life. No breakfast, rarely lunch unless out with friends then a nice healthy dinner with a giant salad.

Three days a week (M, Tu, Wed - just because I work those days and not eating at work is easy) I fast from my dinner at 7 p.m. until my next dinner at 7 p.m. Do I get hungry in between, sure sometimes - briefly - and it feels good to want food and know that in a few hours I will be eating (and enjoying it). This past week I went out to Wendy's with friends and had chili and a Jr. Frostee, one day, had bean/cheese/rice burrito at Taco Bell with hubby one day, date night pizza, chips and a sandwich, another ice cream (shared with hubby), grilled cheese for lunch after church with a few shortbread cookies, etc. Spread out among four non fasting days along with plenty of fresh fruits and veggies. Didn't give any worry to what I was eating as none of the servings were outside the norm, enjoyed it all, exercised daily, drank lots of water, green tea,etc.

On the non fasting days, I really don't worry about what I eat, if I am hungry enough to enjoy something I will eat it. If not, I won't.

Of course, should I feel the physical need to eat - I will. Don't want to get shaky or dizzy or anything. I do think, as a nation and culture worldwide (the 5:2 boards are International) we are in more danger of eating too much, too often as opposed to eating too little, not often enough.

On fasting days, all of my eating is done within a one hour window of time - same 7 to 8 pm. That's it for the day, maybe chamomile tea at bedtime. Tonight I will break the fast with a square of lasagna, one slice of garlic bread and a nice salad.

SOOOOO, if I were you I would not worry so much about not feeling real hunger unless enough hours have passed that it would present a medical problem.

My weight is exactly where I want it to be and like everybody else that I have posted with - always anxious to begin the fasting days. Much like those anxious to be back on the No S days. It is being in control and I am a true control freak. Just ask my husband.

Wishing you well in all aspects of your life and your journey. I always stop and think a bit when I read your threads. Which is, as Martha would say, a good thing.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Lady!

It's not that I worry about not being hungry. It's that I don't like it! And I still feel like eating a lot of the time. It often feels like...being on a diet. Ugh.

But you've found your groove. Hurray!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have often used the term "sane" eating to describe No S-type eating. Just for the heck of it, I googled that and found there is a program called SANE that to me is anything but. It's basically paleo. I guess those people in the Blue Zones, eating bread, beans, rice, corn meal, etc., living into their 80's, 90's and beyond with no degenerative disease, are just insane about their food.
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
I have often used the term "sane" eating to describe No S-type eating. Just for the heck of it, I googled that and found there is a program called SANE that to me is anything but. It's basically paleo. I guess those people in the Blue Zones, eating bread, beans, rice, corn meal, etc., living into their 80's, 90's and beyond with no degenerative disease, are just insane about their food.


Laughing
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAmn, having a tough time. That afternoon time- yecch. I've held out against candy and sweets but it's a struggle. The urges stay pretty strong; can't come up with diversions that stick, so far.

Trying to keep it in perspective. I'm not on a diet!
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RAWCOOKIE



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
I've held out against candy and sweets but it's a struggle


I've just spent an hour or so reading on-line info about nutrition, addiction, stress, cortisol, insulin, meal-spacing, carb-addiction. I didn't manage to hold out against a big bag of left-over candies at work yesterday - felt so fed up with myself about it too!
Rolling Eyes

I'm not going paleo - but this one was quite interesting

http://robbwolf.com/2012/02/15/carb-addiction-cake-is-the-new-crack/

and this one - kind of explains the addictive nature of carbs a different way
http://sigmanutrition.com/episode18/
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was reading research similar to Wolf's report that helped me get serious with No S. I saw that it wasn't just emotions.

But I also knew that complete abstinence permanently was unlikely and likely unnecessary, though it might be beneficial.

A couple I know from my out-of-town Indian philosophy class haven't had sugar for a year and they say they love it. (Ironically, the wife, who is quite petite, looks to me to have put on some weight. A man from the same group who went vegetarian paleo about six months ago- for inflammation issues- lost 15 lbs. He was already pretty thin, so that wasn't his intent. The pain in his back is gone. It does keep me wondering what might change if I could pull it off. But the thought of not eating starchy carbs makes me feel sad.)

I've read a fair amount of Fung's stuff. It's intriguing but there are paradoxes I think he and the rest of the LCHF crowd don't explain very well, like the fact that the Blue Zones folks live long and well on low animal protein.

But I am considering recording my food on S days.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, I forgot about the logging food on S days. I was thinking of it again, but not yet!

I want to take seriously the observation I've often made that I'm never sorry I didn't fail no matter how hard it was at the time. Seems obvious, but gets murky. I almost always have to grapple with feeling sorry when I do fail, even if it's not by much. I don't like the idea of shaming myself, so I want to avoid that, but Ii'd also like to avoid the whole struggle. Isn't it obvious that the easiest way to avoid it is just to bite the bullet at tough moments and hold out? I want to get back to having it occur very definitively at tough moments that it is crucial RIGHT THEN to "suffer" and wait it out. Suffer now or suffer later.

Okay, I'm modifying up the yin yang this week because I want to do a short modified fast a few times a year for the benefits of decreased risk factors and biomarkers for aging, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and cancer, according to the research of Valter Longo. I admit that the major reason I'm willing to do this is that I don't have to actually face real hunger much when I do this; it actually goes with my hunger better. Not having the option to eat more makes it easier to deal with the pesky fake hunger.

But I will miss my morning coffee for a few days. That's the biggest sacrifice! I think I can do that in exchange for delaying dementia, etc.

The major problem will come afterward. Can't truly face it ahead of time.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see the allure of diets. I had my food all planned for yesterday (actually, the daily allotment is planned for the whole week, although I have discretion how to distribute it) I had so many inklings to deviate yesterday for just the simplest little things. Believing that my food plan would give me something I want that I couldn't get if I followed those urges kept me on track. The truth was that even with the reduced amount of food, it was actually plenty. I felt only slight pangs of hunger before lunch time, though I was very aware of not eating, and none before dinner. But this doesn't mean I'm not thinking about food!

I am certainly not in control of whether I feel the desire for food. And I can't get mad at myself for not being able to easily divert my attention from that desire. Thinking I should easily be able to just put it all to the side just makes me feel worse.

I need also to get clear that letting the pendulum swing beyond what I know is moderate, reasonable eating after this week is also not going to get me something I want even more than the pleasure of that eating at those moments, even on S days. I don't doubt that it might even be worse after I finish my "medicine." But I have to remember that many months of a lot more random eating than I was used to left me feeling pretty crappy. Yet eating well didn't always feel A LOT better. But it does make me feel at least that I am doing my part to support overall good functioning for this body. There is just no way at this point in my journey that I can convince myself that a plate of Cheezits for a meal instead of a "balanced" meal is the way to go even if that's what I'm attracted to AND if the balanced meal doesn't leave me feeling physically better, which these days, it often doesn't. But I want to make balanced meals my default anyway.

I also know that these days, there isn't much satisfaction in small portions of processed foods, as there used to be. I don't want a handful of cheezits; I want the whole box or nothing, so best not to start. It is not at this time an important goal to be able to eat many refined foods I used to include in moderation, so I want to include them less and less often, actually ideally only if they are offered in company. But I don't feel I can wait until they have no appeal for me to limit them.

This does make the whole thing trickier as I'm aware that the more restrictions there are, the dicier compliance can become. But I feel I just can't take the risk as much anymore. This body doesn't have as much time as it used to to recover from mistakes!

It's quite paradoxical that the same rule can lead to rebellion or surrender and ease. I guess it boils down to whether the person really believes the rule serves her total best interests or not.
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Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

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oolala53



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The urges for random food continue despite little true hunger. There is an inkling of amusement at them now rather than pure resentment. It's nice to feel again that less can feel good, too, even though true hunger and satiety play a smaller role.
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Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry it sounds like you're struggling a bit. It must be so weird not to feel true hunger very often (or ever?). The reward from eating after waiting for the next meal is often what keeps me motivated. Food just tastes so dang good when I'm truly hungry for it.

I wish I could offer some advice. I do know I've had my share of struggling too and it eventually passes. Then everything kind of clicks for awhile and I can't imagine every struggling with these issues again. Till it happens again...

Anyway today sounds a bit better ? Hope it continues.

Linda
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Linda. This appetite thing has been the source of most of my problems, IMO. It definitely has interfered with my satisfaction with the lifestyle. It's been the reason I've been willing to try some pretty intense mods. It's amazing and annoying to me that I can still want food even though I'm not hungry. But I can't change it. I can only change my habits.
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ModBod



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing your thought process, oolala53, so much of what you write resonates with me - having that motivation to 'suffer' now because it's better than the suffering that would otherwise come later for not complying. I seem to find it so hard to believe it in the moment, and then it's always the same. Why are our bodies so intent on resisting what is rational?!

It helps me to know it's not straightforward for others either... even though, actually, you've got to the weight goal, haven't you, it's now health? I need to recommit and remind myself that it's the sanity of eating in a stable way that is most beneficial. And the health. I've actually started to realise that diabetes isn't something I can presume will bypass me simply because I'm not enormous, considering how often I snack and eat sugar... Anyway, I really appreciate all your write.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Want to clarify:

Things went so well for a couple of years solid! And mostly well for another couple of years. So this was NOT my main problem when I started.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modbod, one of my colleagues has always been thin, and she has had type 2 diabetes for years. She eats rather well, but frankly, I'm surprised sometimes how she pushes the envelope. I think it might be because she's not overweight and sometimes goes into denial.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calorie talk alert! (I usually avoid calorie discussions. Triggers me! But, it's part of the protocol. Ignore this post if it triggers you. ) Tomorrow is the last day on this regime. It's definitely not torture but I felt like I was chomping at the bit some today. The macronutrient ratio has to be rather precise. It's only 9-10% protein and about equal carbs and fat, except for the first day which was higher fat in the form of madadamia nuts. Boy, was I ready for them, even though I wasn't really hungry.

It sure cuts down on dishes to eat so simply!

What's a little frightening is that it has taken until today to feel anything close to the rumblings of hunger I used to feel every day eating a lot more. This was after a 1st day of about 1000 cal. and three of 750. I choose not to eat like this all the time just to feel real hunger, and it's certainly not necessary for health, but is effective for regeneration. Apparently, after age 70 the benefits of IF decrease, so I better git her done while I can.

OH, meant to say (probably repeating from some other post of mine) that it is so obvious to me that I'm losing mostly water weight that will return. I can see all the metatarsals in my feet. That's a sign of low water retention. Got to admit it looks pretty good! But it's not the point.

I admit that the dumb pumpkin pancakes at Denny's have been looking good on the commercials. I'm hardly ever affected by those things because I tend not to eat in the places they advertise, or if I do, I don't get big orders.

This will probably be one of those things where I tell myself I can have them on Saturday and on Saturday, I won't want them. Fine!
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Quayette



Joined: 03 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just passing by to say hello... I'm also triggered by calorie talk, and exercise, and fat loss, vegan, gluten, whatever topic might give me some information to loose weight..
But, sometimes I feel that my mind is exhausted from all that info. It gets pretty noisy inside my head and sometimes I can't concentrate on other things which at the end are more important.
Sometimes I try to avoid web searches because I usually end up looking for a new diet, nutritional info on some particular food, a new exercise, whatever... it is draining me.
That is why I'm loving No S. Let's keep up with the basics of No S and focus on much more important things! Smile Wish you an excellent No S week!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Quayette! Calorie talk over. Razz


I wonder if my previous week's regime led to some feelings of rebelliousness this week. It hasn't helped that I'm exposed to about 5x the food (at the retreat buffets) I would normally be. The last two days, I've been thinking, damn it, I want to eat more than would make me feel just satisfied. I like feeling a little full. It's very possible it's a pendulum swing, but since Longo's research showed his protocol had pretty much the same beneficial effects no matter what kind of eating his subjects did over the next year, I'm not going to panic. I'm just going to try to get a little more choosy about the food on my plate, keeping the variety down, as I'd often rather skip certain foods than have just a little, and have a little more of the best ones. Besides, the evening's fare gets offered at lunch the next day, usually with one new addition, so I can have anything I skipped, if I decide it actually does look worth it.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is talk on the web of plate size growing over the years, but I have my parents' china and the plates are as big as my modern ones. I don't remember if they seemed bigger than our daily fare. I have some 9" plates I use for lunches sometimes but boy, do they seem small. Anything less than that feels like a saucer or dessert plate. I feel like a child trying to use one for any food, even a piece of toast. Guess I'll never be really skinny.

I try not to be too concerned with weight but was a bit distressed today when I put on a pair of jeans that are usually very comfortable and found them tight. What else to do but just be moderate? I'm guessing it's mostly from eating salty and sweet things. A lot less veggies. Well, my work is cut out for me.
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noni



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had china plates passed down to me as well. The dinner plates are 10" and the shallow soup bowls are 8". I put the 8" plate at my place settingon Thanksgiving, then changed my mind, because there were so many sides that even one spoonful of each wouldn't fit. Boy, was I sorry! I only filled my large plate once (salad on the side in a small bowl), but I had to lay down for a while because my heart was racing for the finish line. And that was before dessert! I just hope next year I'll remember to use the smaller soup bowl.
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bunsofaluminum



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
There is talk on the web of plate size growing over the years, but I have my parents' china and the plates are as big as my modern ones.


Yep, I have my mom's china, ca. late 50's...they are all similar sized to my everyday plates, at about 12" ... the one thing I know I can do regardless of plate size is to eat slowly, chew thoroughly, and stop when full.

it's that last that is hardest, eh?

Phooey on plate size. My son does it, so does my sister. When they get full, they simply stop eating EVEN IF there's *gasp* food on their plates. hahahaha I've yet to master that trick.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buns, your relatives are exceptions worldwide. But I have one of those, too. He's what's helped me at times say no to food offers, though he'll often accept the food and then basically let it sit.

I posted this earlier on another check in thread.


Here’s an excerpt from a book review (Fatland) just after an explanation of how serving sizes got so big in restaurants and fast food joints.

Now, you might think people would stop eating and drinking these gargantuan portions as soon as they felt full, but it turns out hunger doesn't work that way. Citing studies in the ''growing field of satiety'' -- the science of human satisfaction -- Critser writes that people presented with larger portions will eat up to 30 percent more than they otherwise would. Human hunger is apparently quite elastic, which makes excellent evolutionary sense: it behooved our hunter-gatherer ancestors to feast whenever the opportunity presented itself, thereby storing reserves of fat against future famine. Researchers call this trait ''the thrifty gene.'' The problem is that in an era of fast-food abundance, the opportunity for feasting now presents itself 24/7.

Three plates! Two of them smaller! (my mod) About half freggies! (another mod) Approximate fist-, palm-, and thumb-sized servings!

OK, that's enough complexity.
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Merry



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:

Now, you might think people would stop eating and drinking these gargantuan portions as soon as they felt full, but it turns out hunger doesn't work that way. Citing studies in the ''growing field of satiety'' -- the science of human satisfaction -- Critser writes that people presented with larger portions will eat up to 30 percent more than they otherwise would. Human hunger is apparently quite elastic, which makes excellent evolutionary sense: it behooved our hunter-gatherer ancestors to feast whenever the opportunity presented itself, thereby storing reserves of fat against future famine. Researchers call this trait ''the thrifty gene.'' The problem is that in an era of fast-food abundance, the opportunity for feasting now presents itself 24/7.

Three plates! Two of them smaller! (my mod) About half freggies! (another mod) Approximate fist-, palm-, and thumb-sized servings!

OK, that's enough complexity.


I can believe that. For one, I don't really notice "full" if there's still food staring at me. I'm *starting* to since doing No-S, but it took several months before I did, and it's subtle so sometimes I forget to watch for it and totally miss it. It's so easy to overeat and not realize until later!

I almost always feel better with medium plates rather than large!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this is interesting. I've been feeling some hunger lately. I can't tell why, but it's been interesting because I've wanted it back but it's taking some getting used to again!

And I still get plenty of the antsy gotta-eat-even without hunger feeling. I had dinner early tonight because I just couldn't concentrate on anything else. Now it's bed time and- I'm a little hungry. It's been YEARS since I felt truly hungry at night. I guess I could have eaten a few more nuts or something. I wouldn't have been comfortable eating much more volume than I did.

I'm thinking about weighing myself on a more regular basis, but just thinking about it. Been reading Brian Wansink. 'Course, he's not the only one advocating for it. On a related note, I think I posted on the big board one of his reports saying that it's normal to gain some weight over the weekend but that those who have a good routine for the week can maintain or even lose over the course of a year. Thus, I'm considering weighing on Saturday mornings and just keeping a trend record.

However, the scale advocates I think always base their recommendations on research on Americans, who are so diet-and-scale oriented. People in slim societies don't know what they weigh nor how many calories are in food. But they do have slim habits.

I just resist these days defining myself by ANY measurement, or even thoughts or actions. It's SO easy to think it all MEANS something, that we have to BE something. I'm trying to reach within and rest on what is absolutely my essence, which I don't believe is affected at all by ANY of the outside stuff, not even my thoughts, good or bad, about myself or the world. So I'm trying to go lightly with any pressures to meet any standards that are not just about the absolute basics.

And I'm still hungry...
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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So much good stuff there. The last part I especially need to hear right now so thanks but mostly wanted to say Yay for hunger!!!
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Merry



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, yay for hunger!
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27 lbs. down, 36 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"Surrender to the sensible." - Yellowtulips
"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TX! Guess what, I feel slightly empty on a Sunday night. Yay again!

I split an absolutely scrumptious flourless chocolate cake piece with ice cream and a mocha drizzle today with an old friend. Boy, did I want more! I even fantasized for a bit of going somewhere to buy something stupid after my friend left, but other obligations got in the way and later it didn't appeal as much anymore.

But I am wondering, will I ever be someone who spends a lot less time thinking about these things? I mean, before I get cancer or hit by a car or something that can really take my mind off it?
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm feeling a bit miffed (first world problem) because I used to have a routine for planning my meals that just used what I'll call building blocks. I've been looking at options for reasons other than weight loss, but the alternatives are not nearly so clear. The one I'm most inspired by is the Blue Zones, partly because it embraces cuisines from all over. But the books to me are all "westernized" versions, depending on recipes alone. Like I'll go to a site and ask for dinner menus, but all I get is a recipe for one dish in a bowl., but it's often either complicated to prepare or it might as well be crudites and dip. I wish I could see the original research, with records of what the meals were for several weeks to see the trends.

What do vegans do? Not saying I'm willing to go vegan, but I'd like to understand what they consider typical lunches and dinners to be like. Do they just eat gargantuan portions of one starch and some veggies plus some fat at a meal? Or do they eat two starches, like potatoes and bread? If I take away the meat and the dairy, I feel like I'm just eating the same thing over and over. And I'm not willing to spend a ton of time at it. I used to be able, with my basics, to assemble a pretty good dinner in about 10 or 15 minutes, one that had a variety of textures. (I used commercial sauces, ones with less crud in them, for flavor.)

AACK! I don't want to depend on what my grandmother recognized. She was obese until she was starved down (successfully) by doctors! And besides, my parents' and grandparents' habits had them all on meds for a decade or two.

But I think it's too late for me to go try to ingratiate myself in a culture with better habits...

Boy, I really don't have society's common moorings for human beings. But I can't be alone in this.

Enough navel-gazing. Off to bother and be bothered by teens.
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wosnes



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are probably as many ways for a vegan to structure a meal as there are vegans to eat them. Some eat a large portion of grains with one or more vegetables dishes on the side; some eat a vegetable/bean/grain stew with a starch and maybe more vegetables; some try to duplicate a standard Western style meal with meat substitutes; some eat a couple of starches with vegetables on the side.

Have you seen the book Ikaria by Diane Kochilas? She gives a brief overview of the meals of the Ikarians. Breakfast was usually liquid -- goat's milk or herbal tea maybe with bread or bread dipped in wine. The midday meal was the main meal of the day and the elders remembered eating lots of beans and maybe some boiled greens. Maybe a savory pie or fritter with foraged greens. Dinner was remembered as being starch-based, maybe a kind of noodle or fried potatoes or potatoes cooked in tomato sauce.

Kochilas also wrote "What I discovered was that it wasn't so much what they people ate a generation or two ago on Ikaria, but it was more the fact that they simply did not eat very much at all. Food was not nearly as plentiful then as it is today, so if anything, the dearth, rather than the type, of food defined their diet. Equally important, of course, was and still is the quality of food. On Ikaria, to this day, people eat very little processed food." Their food is mostly organic because that's the way it's always been grown.

I don't think it's too late for you to adopt the cuisine of another culture if you want to do that. What Diane Kochilas wrote reminds me of what Michael Pollan said in In Defense of Food: Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

You can take the principles and adapt them to fit your life.

Is there a particular cuisine you're interested in?
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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi oolala!

Are you saying you're having a hard time planning dinners since you started following the blue zone way of eating? What kinds of food are included?

If I lived alone I think my dinners would look something like this:

1) roasted or steamed seasonal veggies with baked or grilled lean meat or fish
2) veggie chili (make a large batch & freeze some)
3) veggie soup (freeze some) w bread
4) pasta with veggie red sauce & little cheese on top (freeze some sauce)
5) large salad with beans or tofu or chicken in it, bread
6) beans & rice (or other grain) w steamed veggie
7) hot or cold sandwich w pickles or olives or healthier chips & fruit

Not sure if that helps or not. I do find it easier if I make the same 30 or so recipes over & over instead of constantly having to learn new recipes.

Best of luck!

Linda
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Amy3010



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Oolala,
I eat mainly vegan but I feed an omnivore family, so my meals are made more complicated than they'd have to be if I only had to cook for myself. But generally my plates are made up of equal portions of veggies (cooked and raw), starch, and some kind of plant protein (beans, tofu, seitan), or I'll make some vegan casserole or recipe that the whole family will eat (burritos, lasagna, curry). Lunches are either leftovers from dinners, or a soup and sandwich, or a big salad with beans.

Hope this helps!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, thanks for the suggestions. I'm not sure why it's so hard, except that it bugs me that the promoters of Blue Zone don't make it more clear, or don't recognize that there is very likely a pattern the people have for meals. I want to know EVERYTHNG they typically have at lunch, not a recipe for one item that might be eaten at lunch. I wish I could see pictures of all the meals a family would eat in a week. I don't want to try to copy specifics, just the pattern.

I used to have chicken as part of the meal often, with different sauces. Somehow having beans instead as often is just not that satisfying. That's probably partly because beans functioned as my starch often, providing variety in the starch dept. So now it feels like beans are playing double duty. And they don't provide the same texture. To me, beans are "wet" in comparison and don't carry the sauces like a meat does. And they feel more repetitive than chicken or meat did. OH, I don't know, it just all sounds like excuses. I wish I could just let go of wanting to have guidelines, but honestly, I can't justify NOT trying to eat smart for the future. The stakes feel higher now. But I guess if it's important enough to me, I'll make it work. (Just to clarify, this is not about weight loss now.)

And I have never been happy with just a bowl of soup and some bread or just one bowl of anything... except for breakfast.

I guess it's that I miss the way I used to eat but don't have confidence in it anymore. I miss drinking coffee a lot, but I'm more okay with that.
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worth it



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Oolala,

I spent a little time reading through your thread. The theory of confidence in eating is a hot button for me right now, and I was sad to see that you have lost confidence in your old way of eating. I also noticed that you haven't been writing about food with much joy/pleasure lately, but with more trepidation (i.e. the "stakes feel higher," etc. Couldn't help wondering if those two changes were related?
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They absolutely are and I feel I have no control over this at all. I have attempted so much but it has changed only briefly at times. The whole thing remains an area of consuming interest. For awhile when I was "successful" I felt happy with that, but now even it sometimes feels like an unproductive obsession; I attempted to deal with that as well with even less success. It hurts a bit to admit how intractable certain areas of my life are and it intertwines with eating. BUT I am also very aware that in the big scheme of things, these are small issues. I don't mean to demean my problems but put them in perspective. I don't deal with crushing poverty, severe physical limitations, painful terminal illness, outright abuse, unfair litigation, or unsafe living conditions. I'm grateful you wrote so that I could remind myself!

On the consuming interest front, I'm reading a book about using natural instincts to learn to curtail overeating. It (The Instinct Diet, The "I" Diet) was written by a researcher at Tufts, Dr. Susan B. Roberts. I though it MIGHT help, but I don't think it will because I feel I actually haphazardly have used most of the principles in my sojourn here, if not as strictly as she proposes. And I have lost and maintained. Nothing she wrote makes me think getting stricter will solve my present problem, as it was not one even alluded to in her description of common downfalls that her diet addresses. But it's been an interesting read. I think it's rather fascinating to hear how these researchers often didn't even have a clue about what was really making a difference in certain areas until something serendipitious drew their attention to some data. Varady was researching every-other-day eating on mice for other reasons and actually wanted both sets of mice to maintain their weight, hoping the experimental ones would eat enough on "on" days to maintain, but found that they always lost weight. It's not a protocol that helped with my goal, but it was still interesting to read of the development of her process. Same with Johnson and Longo. But these people are way beyond No S. And if I do sometimes experiment with them, it's for the health benefits. I think they did my body good even if they didn't solve the appetite issue or take much weight off. Longo says the body actually rebuilds better cells after temporary careful restriction even if the person doesn't change eating habits much afterwards. I'm counting on it!

If I get my inspiration anywhere these days , I want it to be with principles like Roberts and Wansink proposes, though I'm disappointed that Wansink has jumped on the "let's look at what skinny people do" bandwagon. I think it's as ridiculous as using what diabetics or other severely afflicted people do to heal themselves. Weight loss is just a side effect. I sill like looking at what whole CULTURES do, not individuals. Naturally skinny people stay pretty much like that despite their environment, which means to me they really do have something different going on that reduces their struggle. I guarantee that if I tapped a skinny person on the shoulder and told her to eat as often as I want to, she would either start eating more and gaining weight or be as burdened as many of the population is. I just don't believe they are in control of how stimulated by food they are. And their capacity for the discomfort of being overfull is lower AND they can often eat a LOT more before they do feel it.

Okay, enough defensiveness. I'm just right and my opposition is wrong. Twisted Evil
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RAWCOOKIE



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry I haven't got any actual references for you here, but I went to an exhibition called 'Invisible You' about our microbiological world (the microbes that live in and on us). It was a collaboration of many brilliant minds - science, art, music etc. One of the things I saw repeated over and over was that the microbes form our internal landscape and they can determine whether someone is happy, sad, slim, obese etc. Spooky avenue to start going down - but good nutrition and attention to the quality of food that goes into our bodies, can, it seems, affect what microbes can thrive, or not, in us. Microbes can be good or bad of course - good nutrition and habits support a healthy immune system - so it's always worth giving it your best shot - in my opinion!

I still love my sugar on an S day - but I'm more aware now that I'm 'feeding' those sugar-loving microbes that can trigger inflammation, turn off my immune system, and feed 'bad' microbes. Well, that's my take on the information I got from the exhibition.

It was at The Eden Project, Cornwall, UK - you might be able to find out more if you google it. Lots of research hospitals and universities involved - stunning.
Shocked
I just found this link - you can download the exhibition catalogues
http://www.edenproject.com/visit/whats-here/invisible-you-the-human-microbiome-exhibition
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worth it



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL! By the way, I didn't sense much defensiveness in your post.

I'm also fascinated by naturally skinny cultures and the quest to understand what the "secret" is (that reduces their struggle).

At any rate, I wanted to say that sometimes we just need to "obsess" over the little things in our immediate focus. I figure, at least you are being passionate about something, and you seem to have an insatiable need for knowledge (albeit in this area)- no wonder you are an educator. In fact, I hope you enjoy the info gathering process just as much as you enjoy finding "your answers."

In the meantime, I'm hoping you can at least enjoy some yummy food, within the limits of No S!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I know what the "secrets" are of those cultures. This is from a lot of obsessing. There's not just one secret. There's an attitude and habits that intertwine.

They love food before, during, and after their meals.

They eat mostly discrete meals with little snacking/random/casual eating.

Their meals are rather routine in general make up, meaning they eat very similarly of the amount and kinds of food at particular meals: so much for breakfast, this combo for lunch, that combo for dinner. The particulars of the building blocks of the meals can change, but each meal has its blocks. You don't usually eat three servings of one block and skip the others.

There is usually only one largish meal of the day, and one of the others is probably pretty small. Breakfast is most likely the small one, and can be coffee, bread and jam or the like most days, no problem.

Most meals are shared in company, though modern work life is taking its toll on that. But there is usually a hold out for the largest meal even if it means changing the time. The conversation is a big focus. (France has had a BIG decline in the main meal as a leisurely lunch at a restaurant.)

They value savoring the quality food at a meal and do not value eating a lot of any one food just because it tastes good, nor of getting super full. The savoring is interspersed with the conversation.

Sweet plays a treasured but rather minor role in the flavor palette of a day. Servings small and only one. And they usually don't have sweets sitting around. Big baked dessert shared in small portions among a group and no leftovers only once a week or so.

There are probably others, but I think these cover what makes the difference. I guess if you boiled it down, the rock bottom is that they don't VALUE overeating. In fact, they think that gets in the way of their love and enjoyment of good food. Less is better because more will ruin your enjoyment of something else at the meal they love, too. So maybe there is a secret, but it still takes supportive habits to play it out.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala,

All of your research has paid off. I think you are right on the mark with this one. At times in my life, I ate this way and was 50lbs lighter. Food was so enjoyable and was special (especially dinner) and hunger didn't seem like a big deal because I knew what I had waiting for my next meal would be sooooo good. It WAS a heavenly way of eating.

Thank you for helping me to make this connection. It will be something I continue to contemplate and explore through my No S journey.

p.s. Didn't mean to steal your thread!


Shocked
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steal it! You gave me another reason to pontificate on it! I'm humbled to be of service to anyone.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went to a small gathering last night and elected to bring Pepperidge Farm mint milanos (the Xmas version, with a little red icing in the middle.) I still love them.

Just ate a bowl of hot cereal with some protein powder, walnuts and a bit of a thickener, which was awesome. Yet I feel I didn't eat a thing. Yeah, I know it will feel different in a few minutes, but it used to feel like more sooner.

Am considering actually paying for exercise instruction. Toying with the idea of kettlebells. Wondering if I can learn on the trainer's equipment and supplement with my regular weights at home. I detest the idea of buying something extra, but I'm intrigued by the concept. It would be only for three months, a kind of winter thing. Am I being silly? I have this idea that kb's are very efficient at building muscle, and yes, burning fat, and more natural than traditional weight lifting. I like the idea of setting back the clock a bit, since I know I've lost more muscle than I would have. I"m not convinced I'll stay motivated enough on my own.

Or should I just try the cheap $10 a month, no contract gym that's on the way home for a few months? Will I go or blow it off?

Dicker dicker while there are gifts to wrap, or put in booze gift bags...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Just wanted to say that I LOVE Kettlebell workouts, I just can no longer do them due to a back problem. I never used a trainer, but have a video that was for beginners that I use to really enjoy. It's called Ultimate Kettlebell Workouts for beginners by Paul Katami.

https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Kettlebell-Workouts-Beginners-DVD/dp/B00ARJM22S

It was very easy to follow and the workouts were on the shorter end (15-20 mins) and it provides 3 separate workouts, if I remember correctly. I have two sizes of kettle bells, the smallest one (which I think is 5lbs) and the next size up at maybe 10lbs. I definitely got a great workout from the 5lb kettle bell.

Anyway, good luck whatever you decide!
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lpearlmom



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vote for a home routine only because I personally find it so much more doable!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The home routine is absolutely the long-term plan. I just haven't been able to make it happen.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, went into joyless snacking after the school luncheon on Thursday, though it took until Friday, last day of work, with tons of flour-based stuff in the office I worked in more hours (I had end-of-semester work to do that is just easier to do there. Got a copy machine right there, et al.) to really kick it up. It lasted until yesterday afternoon. I can't say I toughed it out after that. The desires finally subsided. I sat on my ass nearly the whole time. I do not want to do much else. Tired of the effort. It feels like effort so much of the time! When I really look, I'm not miserable, though.

I was supposed to get together with an old work mate tomorrow, but she had to put it off, so it's Thursday now. I look at all the stuff I "should" be doing and I just go back to my reading, though I did empty two big bags of stuff while I watched a disappointing comedy. However, some of the stuff from the bags that doesn't belong in trash/recycling is now sitting out. Some of it will be relatively easy to take care of but some NOT. At least for me. Tired of paying people to help me with it and tired of asking friends who don't want to do it or keep up with it.

Just stating facts. Not even trying to change it right now. It's Sunday!
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Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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walkerlori



Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 987
Location: new mexico

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can do whatever we want on Sunday!
No rules!
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7491
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to report that with our talk of kettlebells, even though I haven't gone to the link mentioned, an ad for two kettlebell DVDs has appeared at the bottom of my thread. Oh, the marketing, the marketing! At least it's not food.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
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Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That always weird me out too!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm feeling torn this week, having a "good" week because I'm eating quite "clean" most of the time, but feeling annoyed, too, about why I have such a need to be "good," or to have such narrow parameters for good. But I'm not letting it take over.

I lucked out so incredibly yesterday. I had decided relatively last minute that I need a new pair of pants in the red range, not just for Christmas but ideally for tomorrow night. I left a visit to a friend a bit later than expected and hit a lot of traffic that I thought might keep me from getting to the thrift store, the ONLY place I was willing to shop, while it was . The store was nearly empty and the very first pair of pants I tried on were pretty darn good, plus they were half off! I refused to let myself spend any more time seeing if I could find an even better pair. And I also found a sleeveless top almost the same shade to go under the dolman-sleeved sheer top I wanted to wear with the top and slacks. It all took about 15 minutes. I tried the ensemble on and admit I liked it! The red shade is a little maroonish so it's not just Christmasy, but it the top has some sparkles, so all together it looks festive. I got the sheer top at a thrift store last year so the whole outfit was under 10 bucks! I wonder sometimes if I',m not really getting away with anything and people can tell, but I'm too cheap to actually do much about it.

This is kind of funny because my family has dressed up less and less over the years. My mother always dressed special for these events and joked about being lace-curtain Irish, even though we weren't truly fancy. My obese niece is kind of the exception. She always manages to find nice-looking outfits.

My sister 'warned" me that she has put on weight again. I feel for her so much. She was always the petite one but gained A LOT later. I won't go into all the details. I keep trying to gently tell her to stop using the WW ethic and stop thinking of having to lose weight and more to think about how to reasonably reduce eating. I know she still doesn't get it and will probably be influenced by my size to want to "take the weight off." Her son did do it by fierce dieting and has managed to keep it off, so I've got that competition. (He's all worried about "looking fat." It's not about his health or even vigor. Not fun.) I would so like to be able to make a positive contribution on this to her AND to feel I have an ally in the family, but it probably won't happen.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
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Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My grandmother who was quite wealthy & im sure attended lots of fancy gatherings always shopped at thrift stores. She was an artist and wore berets and funky jewelry but she always looked fantastic.

I enjoy shopping in nice stores but I'm probably wasting a lot of money. More power to you!

And families want to listen even less than friends about this weight stuff in my opinion.

Linda
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I think about it, I did a lot of complaining before I was willing to do anything. And I probably wouldn't listen to their advice, either.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.


Last edited by oolala53 on Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1280

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOVE a good thrift-store bargain! Enjoy!

Yeah, I think it's hard to communicate to family or even friends--I think you really have to be in the right mindset to accept No-S. It's so obvious...and yet so radical, all at the same time! I do get wanting to "take that weight off now!" I have to fight that mindset in myself often. That mindset has never led me to long-term success, but it sure is hard to let go.
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1 year and counting!

27 lbs. down, 36 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"Surrender to the sensible." - Yellowtulips
"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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Amy3010



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 977
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice find at the thrift store! I have found some of my favorite wardrobe items at a secondhand store in Brussels - I guess you just have to have a little luck when you go in, which you did!

Thanks for stopping by my thread - I really appreciate your advice!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7491
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as I 'bout never completely accept any one person's recommendations on anything, I have my reservations about the gal (she is from the "unrestrained eating recommended/don't be on ANY diet crowd), but I do love a lot of her honesty, especially when it comes to being realistic about possible weight loss. I know that though many people here do not like the idea that No S will not provide everyone here the way to get to their proposed goal weight, I have big doubts and consider No S to have far greater value than that.

Isabel is about body acceptance. Sounds like she was never THAT overweight. I still think there is value in her stance, though I can imagine in our society of fat-shaming and insults that it can be hard to swallow. I certainly believe that trying to avoid being shamed is an unfortunate motivation that some have used successfully, but I wish they had never had to suffer it. There are other reasons I believe are even better to use No S, ones that don't have much to do with weight loss.

I'll probably write of tidbits from Isabel at various times, but here is her website, which of course starts off with one of the ideas I disagree with!
http://isabelfoxenduke.com
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7491
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe how hard it is for me to find someone I like and who likes me to go to a movie I'd like to see. I've been to over 30 movies with local meetup groups in an attempt to find that, but they feel like auditioning for friendship all the time. The same people don't always go, so it isn't as if it's a dependable way to see and get used to new people (and have them get used to me). We tend to show up about 20 minutes early, have cursory conversations, watch the films and all go home. I'm not saying I'm raring to go out afterwards, but I doubt it would be a routine even if I were.

With the people I do know, their tastes are so different. Shoot me at dawn, I like mostly art films. There are a few mainstream ones that sometimes appeal but they aren't usually my first choice, often because I know they'll come out on DVD and only some are really worthy of the big screen. Now, I admit I don't always see the theaters showing films I do want to see full full full, so I guess my taste is unusual. But you'd think in a city of 2 million, I could have a few friends with similar taste. Waa Waa.

I guess I just have to go by myself, which I've also done countless times. I've done more things alone than any woman I personally know.

I've belonged to tons of meetups and used to go quite regularly, but the experience was similar to the movie one.

Just whining. Isn't going to get solved today. And not worth eating over...

Well, I did get a dinner invitation for tonight. Grateful! And a good reason to hold out during the "witching hours."
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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worth it



Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi oolala,

Just checking in with you. I have just been catching up on your thread. Great thrift store finds! I laughed at comment that you "refused to let myself spend any more time seeing if I could find a better pair"- I WANT to do this all the time to make sure I'm getting the best deal, and have been quasi successful when shopping at a physical location, but still do it when I'm shopping on the internet. I get obsessive about it... it's scary.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I hope you enjoy dinner tonight!
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3210
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh...those are the types of movies I like to see too but I'm not brave enough to go alone.

If only we lived closer to each other all our social problems could be solved. ☺️
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like a nut, I'm looking at The Obesity Code by Jason Fung. I stumbled on his videos while researching IF last spring. It took until now to get his book at my library because there were so many holds on it. I felt I HAD to look at it since it's so precious!

On video, he sometimes sounds absolutely unprofessional, but he has had such interesting results. (I do wonder what will happen with all the protein recommendations since Valter Longo, longtime cancer and longevity researchers is so against it. but I divert. )

I came here now because I jumped to the Solutions chapter where Fung admits that the causes of obesity are multifactoral. He also has some critique for the idea of moderation. He asks if we should consider eating ice cream moderately to be equal to eating broccoli moderately and says they are not equal.

From The Obesity Code "The obvious truth is that certain foods must be severely restricted, including sugar-sweetened beverages and candy." p. 218 "Step 1. Reduce your consumption of added sugars." p. 219 published 2016

From the No S site (I believe put up sometimes between 2001 and 2004)
"What do you mean by "sweets"?

I mean something whose principal source of calories is sugar. I guess this covers candy. Italics mine. Go ahead and put sugar in your coffee or oatmeal; you have my blessing. Of course fruits are fine.

But beware of soda and corn syrup "juice" drinks. I'm not just being a killjoy; adolescent Americans get an estimated 13% of their total calories from such nutritionally bankrupt 'liquid carbohydrates.'"

Once again, level-headed Reinhard was ahead of his time without doing extensive nutritional research.

I have to say that I was never a big soda drinker. I did it all with sweets, sweets and more sweets.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7491
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a little shocking how much I can preach No S and still fail so often! Two fails this week. But I think what's important is that No S still keeps me moderate in my eating, and it's the years of a high degree of compliance that I think made that possible. I do some non-canonical balancing that I wouldn't have felt was ok in my first couple of years, but the basic habit has been instilled.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3210
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are they just little fails or full on binges?

I wrote on my thread recently that I have little fails almost every day but my overall eating is still very moderate. In the beginning I was obsessed with perfect green days which I think was good because it help establish my habit. But maybe this is the natural progression of being on NoS for a long time?

Do you think Reinhard still follows it to the letter most days or just the spirit of it? It would be nice to relax a little bit eventually but of course I could also see it being a slippery slope so not sure if that could work?

Anyway I appreciate your honesty. It's important to know even long timers like you stil struggle sometimes. The important thing is that you still hang In There instead of running off to try the latest fad diet.

Linda
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're pretty small fails. I think my relative relapse period on that is over. I'd rather keep even the little experiences for S days, and even then not just because I can, but since they don't have me really careening on weekdays, I just have to let it be.

I do think Reinhard is probably pretty strict. Fence around the law. He does know that slim cultures aren't completely rigid about not snacking, ever. But the underlying ethic is one that it is NOT the default habit, nor is eating large amounts nor is food available for that all the time. In a culture where there are no outer restrictions, it gets trickier for individuals to manage it on their own, I'd guess. Only 1 in three is managing it in America now.

But I shouldn't be talking about him as if I know. Wanna ask?
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7491
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea of having a No Regrets New Year on the decluttering front sounds even more outlandish than it did years ago about eating. It involves so much more doing! rather than just not doing, i.e., not eating.

I have to start reminding myself to think about what life might be like not to have these decluttering projects hanging over my head, year after year.

Thinking about this, I'd bet the stats are pretty similar. About a third of the country manages possessions quite adequately, another third have some struggles, and the last third just have too much stuff too disorganized. The hoarders are the morbidly obese of the organizing world.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3210
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess we could ask but actually I think I just need to be stricter with myself. In the end it's easier.

Decluttering ugh!! When you come in my house it's very clean and organized looking. But just do not look in our office (specially my desk) or my kid's rooms or my husbands closet or our garage! I think many ppl struggle with this issue. Some of us are better at hiding it than others?
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, probably if I bought some furniture that didn't look like it belongs in a dorm room or first apartment, it might inspire me. (I still have a buffet I bought in 1985. I painted it gold 14 years ago in preparation for sponging another color over it. In the mean time, some of the veneer on the sliding doors has puckered. But it has stuff in it! I"m afraid if I dumped it, I'd end up with boxes of the stuff from inside it sitting in my living room. That's happened before.)

But prettying up the place is no guarantee of anything.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 7491
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crap. Just noticed something. I have more posts here than Reinhard does. And his are usually just a few lines. How can I be spending more time here than the founder?
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Bluebell



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 318
Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala all of your posts are valuable and valued! Very Happy
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are too kind!
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 63 SBMI Jan/10-30.8 Jan/12-26.8 Mar/13-24.9 Dec/15 24.8 held steady +/- 8-lb. for two years Mar/17 22.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Bluebell



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 318
Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It mean it sincerely. Smile Since I began NoS at the beginning of October this year, I have had so much support on this forum, and so many of your posts have either resonated with me or helped show me the way to go. This has been a whole new way of thinking for me, and the fact that seasoned and experienced NoSers like yourself still take the time to offer support is indeed valued. So thank you! Very Happy
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1280

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
Crap. Just noticed something. I have more posts here than Reinhard does. And his are usually just a few lines. How can I be spending more time here than the founder?


Laughing Ha! Too funny! But I agree, you often have very helpful things to say and I'm glad you're here. Your long-term perspective has a lot of value. You have different roles, and I wouldn't worry about it at all Smile.
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Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of Monday, November 30, 2015.

1 year and counting!

27 lbs. down, 36 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"Surrender to the sensible." - Yellowtulips
"Believe conquering sweets is doable." - Oolala
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