Help Please!

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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MerryKat
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Help Please!

Post by MerryKat » Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:55 pm

Hi all

Sorry to have been absent for so long - our work server has been playing up (again) and I could not access the boards.

On thursday last week I had been doing No S for 8 weeks. I have loved every minute of it and I actually feel as if I am in control rather than the food (for the first time in memory). I have even found that this feeling of control has extended to my exercising and I have been doing my 8 Minutes in the Morning with impressive regularity.

I have been following the plan 100% for the last 8 weeks - and often my S Days are the same as N Days as I just don't think to snack!!!

However, in the last 8 weeks I have gained 1kg (2.2lb). I am finding this terribly irritating and depressing. After 5 weeks I had lost measurements but not in the last 3 weeks and I am now getting frustrated.

Am I just gaining muscle as I loose fat and water? even though my current measurements are no less than 3 weeks ago?

Or do I need to cut my portion sizes for my 3 meals?

I don't want to do anything drastic which will send me back into the diet spiral, but I was expecting at least a little loss!

I drink between 1.5 and 2 litres of water a day - sometimes more if it is very hot.

I have a little over 10kg (2.2lb) to loose to get to roughly where I was 2 years ago - before baby number 2. Before baby 2 I was well toned thanks to 8MM and WW and at a really comfortable weight.

Any comments or ideas would be appreciated.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

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gratefuldeb67
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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:21 pm

Sorry for your frustration Mo!
I know that if you stick with it and just wait it out, you will lose that back again...
It's probably just some little plateau you are on for some unknown reason..
Unless you have been *increasing* your portions or eating really fattening foods regularly, I would not panic and just stick it out...
I have been on plateaus which have sometimes lasted for a few months...
And, yes it is very, very frustrating....
Be very patient and be content that your the same size...
This may indeed mean that you are gaining muscle! That is a great thing and muscle weighs THREE TIMES AS MUCH AS FAT....
It also helps your resting metabolism...
Are you weight training at all?

When you are in the losing "state", of dieting, it is sometimes a zigzaggy course and often we stop losing for periods of time, and even gain a bit...
THIS IS TOTALLY NORMAL!!! DON'T WORRY....

But that shouldn't be more than a temporary state...

But usually, the body gets the signal, at some point that it's not
1. Starving
or
2. Dying

and then you find that you break through the plateau...

I wouldn't fool with the diet side, but I encourage you to possibly increase your 8 minutes in the morning, to more like 15 or 20....
I bet that will shake you out of your lull...

Just tough it out and focus on how your body is feeling these days!!!
NoS is not fast...
We are all brainwashed to want fast results from diets, but this is the big difference.... No matter how much we say to ourselves, "I'm okay with the speed of loss" the old "evil" diet brain is urging us on to "hurry up!!!!"

Good luck Mo!
Hope this helps...
I am really really proud of you that you have had over sixty days on habit!!!!!!
You rock!!!!
Have a nice one in South Africa!
Peace and Love,
8) Deb

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gj
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Post by gj » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:08 pm

1 kg is not that much ... your body weight can vary a lot depending on water retention, amount of food in the digestive tract, time of measurement.

I would recommend weighing yourself several days in a row, always at the same time (in the morning, before breakfast). Maybe not immediately after S-days, either (I generally weigh 1-2 kg more on monday morning than on Saturday morning ;-), but then I *really* pig out on s-days). Then take the average or median.

If you really gained weight, I guess reducing portion size would be an option. Personally, I would try increasing exercise first, though.

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:10 am

Hi guys
Thanks for the encouragement.

First off I will in no ways stop No S - it really gives the control back to me. It is just annoying to read everyone loosing doing this and after nearly 3 sets of 21 days I am just gaining - slowly but steadily. I weigh myself weekly - first thing in the morning and the only losses I have had have been when I have had gastro (2 bad bouts in the first 4 weeks of No S) and those I have gained back as soon as my body has rebalanced it's fluids.

01/09/05 = -0.9kg (1.98lb) (Gastro)
08/09/05 = +1.0kg (2.2lb) (backlash from Gastro?)
15/09/05 = 0
22/09/05 = -0.3kg (0.66lb) (Gastro)
29/09/05 = + 0.7kg (1.54lb) (backlash from Gastro?)
06/10/05 = 0
13/10/05 = +0.2kg (0.44lb)
20/10/05 = +0.3kg (0.66lb)

They are all small amounts each week, but they add up! I am scared to let them add up too much further or I will end up undoing any losses I have had this year.

Why am I not loosing?

I do Jorge Cruise 8 Minutes in the Morning (basic weights) as a definite daily exercise and I do other stuff in the evenings if there is time (things like the Hacker's Diet exercises. Yoga, Tummy exercises, Hindu Squats) - I usually manage 2 / 3 nights a week. I know the 8MM works as that is what I used when I lost all my weight after baby 1 coupled with WW, but I cannot go back to counting points and obsessing over food.

Using the rules of No S I should be able to eat 3 good platefuls of food daily and still loose and I am not. I don't eat fatty foods or sugary foods and I eat a fairly healthy basic diet. My S Days I have treats (generally something I really fancy which I go out and buy) but I have no desire to binge anymore.

Basically I am just frustrated at not loosing.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

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gj
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Post by gj » Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:31 am

I don't know if this will be a consolation, but my weight loss has definitely slowed as I approach healthier body weights. With 25 kg to loose, I could loose 1 kg a week, no problem. Now at 10 kg, the last kg took me over a month. And there are fluctuations.

You never wrote your weight (only deltas), but since you are a woman I assume you are smaller and lighter. For a 60 kg woman, loosing 1 kg is a lot more than for a 90 kg man. You have to see it relative to your current body weight. Also with fashion the way it is, I suspect that your 10kg will be much harder than mine.

Having said all that, if I saw no loss at 8 weeks, I'd be frustrated, too.

You could try eating more salad/vegetables and less refined foods during the week.

Exercise-wise, I've had good results with Shovelglove and my stationary bike. I ride it while watching TV in the evening, 5 days a week if possible. It has a training computer that does the planning for me, but the general idea is to maintain a pulse of 110-130 over 20-60 minutes. Very good for the hearth but boring. TV definitely helps.

Sorry if this seems like I'm pimping my particular brand of No-S, but it's the only brand I know and it works for me.

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:33 am

GJ
Thanks for sharing your brand of No S - every little bit of information helps.

I am 5.3" and currently weigh 75kg (165lb). My aim it get somewhere around the 63kg (138.6lb) mark. For my medium build this is realistic and I have been there comfortably - for many years before children and between the 2 pregnancies. At 63kg (138.6lb) I am not skinny and I feel comfortable with myself.

I know that as I get closer to goal it will take longer to loose a small amount, but I am gaining rather than loosing. I would be quite content to loose 0.5kg (1.1lb) per 2 months. I am not looking for quick losses, I just want to find a healthy plan that will allow me to get to a healthy weight.

Since starting No S I am definitely eating less - no snacks is a big saver for me as I used to eat all day. My N days are basically:

Breakfast - Cereal and LF milk or 2 slices of toast with a thin spread of PB or jam

Lunch - 2 slices of bread with a spread of sorts (often PB as it gives me the protein to make it to dinner - otherwise I battle to make it)

Dinner - Protein (various) / Starch (various) / usually two veggies - the veggies are 1/2 the plate.

My usual S Days the only variation is that I will have chocolate or liquorice (or some kind of sweet) after dinner. I have the odd S Day where we go to friends and over do it - but nothing like in the past.

In the exercise department - I squeeze my 8MM in in the morning and then the day gets going with 2 boys and a full time job. By the time I get home at night and get dinner & clean up, homework and bath parade out of the way it is 8.30pm and all I am up to is a bath and bed. I have no space in my days to squeeze more exercise in at the moment.

thanks again for all your comments.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

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gj
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Post by gj » Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:55 am

For comparison, I typically eat:

- breakfast: 2 slices of full-corn bread, toasted, with 2 eggs (scrambled) and 100 g cottage cheese
- lunch: full-corn spagetti with tomato sauce & kidney beans or tuna, 100g cottage cheese
- dinner: 150g fish, fried in a non-stick pan with a bit of olive oil & half a zuchini, either raw or also fried

I eat cottage cheese or beans with almost every meal because I find that they keep me sated even in small portions.

Also, I count white bread as sugar and only have it on S-days.

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reinhard
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Post by reinhard » Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:43 pm

Merrykat,

I'm sorry to hear this -- it sounds very frustrating.

I think what it boils down to is: are you eating less than you were before? No s should at least make it easier to answer that question, there are far fewer inputs to consider. If you are eating less, and keep moving (as it sounds like you are) you will loose weight. There's no special magic. It's the same calories-in, calories-out principle as weight watchers, just without all the counting.

But even if you're not eating less now when you add it all up, or if you just want to ramp things up a bit to see progress sooner, you're in a better position than you were before No-s. The habit of regular meals which you've established means it's much easier to monitor and filter what goes into you. It should be very easy to spot excesses you could do without and to filter them out. I'd be cautious about adding additional rules, so pay careful attention before diving into action. But take a look, there may be some obvious low hanging fruit. Run them by us here -- we'll be glad to give them a once over.

Finally, 1 kg of 75 is not a huge amount of weight. Granted, it's in the wrong direction, and that's maddening, but I fluctuate by that much (percentage-wise) almost every day. You might want to get some more data points to put these in perspective (I could easily, by relying on a single weighing a week, have shown a comparable gain, or loss, in that period) . I know, I know, after 8 weeks you want more than some half baked rationalization to show for your efforts, but consider it with the other factors.

So in sum:

1) are you eating less?
2) your meal habits give you a solid platform for improvement
3) your +1 kg is not great, but it's not a disaster. It may not even be real (which is still not great since you want to see loss, but again, no disaster)

Best wishes to you in sorting this out. Keep us posted,

Reinhard

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:16 pm

GJ & Reinhard

Thanks for the answers.

I know all that you have told me, but you know the human mind it starts ifing and buting and you end up doubting yourself. Sometimes I just need some confirmation from my fellow No S junkies!

1) I know I am eating less, as I am eating the meals I was before but I have dropped the snacks.

2) I am definitely feeling better with the 3 meals a day and I know long term it will benefit me. The only thing I can think of is that I drink about 8 cups of instant coffee (more chicory than coffee) per day - no sugar or milk. I am going to try changing to tea on N days and see if that helps. I also drink around 2 litres of water a day.

3) I know 1kg is really not a lot, but I had really hoped that in 8 weeks I would show a loss however small.

Thanks for reconfirming what I know and I will continue on my path and see what happens this week (end of the 3 set of 21 days) and in the next set of 21 days.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

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peetie
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Post by peetie » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:10 pm

Hi Mo,
To me it looks like you may not be eating enough and your metabolism is getting sluggish. The meals, as you describe them, seem awfully light. Atleast breakfast and lunch do. Have you tried adding some protein to breakfast and lunch in the form of eggs, chicken, fish or beef? Just a 4 oz regular serving might get your metabolism humming.

And, 8 minutes in the morning may be good for general fitness, but I doubt that 8 minutes burns as many calories as, say, a half hour walk.

Just keep tweaking the quality of your meals, and at the very least, you will be healthy and not bingeing. Those are two things that are very important. Much more important than a pound or two fluctuation in ANY direction.

Peetie

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Post by Kevin » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:40 pm

I would really, really try to fit in a 20 minute walk. Do it with the boys, if you can, or at lunch. IMHO, walking is the best weight loss exercise that exists.
Kevin
1/13/2011-189# :: 4/21/2011-177# :: Goal-165#
"Respecting the 4th S: sometimes."

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Post by JWL » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:49 am

I have to agree with Kevin. The value of walking was very vividly illustrated to me recently. So, try to squeeze a daily walk in.

But here's a question I haven't seen asked: how do you feel? Not about the number on the scale, but about yourself in-your-body? Do you have more or less energy? Do you get tired? How's your flexibility and endurance? Do you feel strong?

I'd pay more attention to these questions than to your weight....
JWL[.|@]Freakwitch[.]net

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snazzybabe
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Post by snazzybabe » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:26 am

Its been 8 weeks and I think you should have seen a drop in your weight because you started eating 3 regular meals and not snacking.
As Peetie said your breakfast and lunch seems a bit on the light side. I also think you should add some protein to those meals. The best breakfast I feel is bacon and eggs or an omlette and for lunch a nice big salad with tuna or chicken and a yummy dressing.
I feel if you cut out the bread and cereal and replace with protein that you will definitely start to see a loss.
If at all possible the 20 minute walk will help.

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:33 am

Hi guys

After all that guess what - this week I showed a loss of 0.5kg (1.1lb) :lol: So after 9 weeks of No S I have gained 0.5kg (1.1lb) in total. I will see next week if I am following the same trend. I have decided in any case to just keep monitoring on a weekly basis but to stick with my plan until the end of January 2006 without worrying too much and then re-look at things.

On the issue of my meals being light - I was eating more at each meal and 3 weeks ago I decided that I was actually too full after each meal and cut back to what I described. I am full after each meal, but not feeling bloated and I am not battling inbetween (unless dinner is late).

Breakfast - it has to be fast and easy as the mornings are already hectic (I get up at 5.30am and leave the house at 7.15am) - hence the peanut butter on toast or cereal with milk or soya - I try not to have too much dairy as I have an intolerance to it.

Lunch - it has just been easier to make sandwiches and they fill me most days till I get to dinner.

I would love to walk, but it is not possible at the moment. I get home at 5.30pm and it is busy with boys and dinner and so on until 7.30pm by which point it is dark and I am not prepared to walk at night by myself. Until my youngest is a bit older and can wait for dinner and bed the walking will not be happening.

In myself I am feeling good, I am sleeping well (when the boys don't disturb me), I feel mentally alert and capable at work, and I am more than able to run around after all the family hobbies over the weekend with out too much trouble.

I really think that I am on the right track and it is just going to take my body time to adjust to such a normal routine and really believe I won't do anything horrid to it again. I have almost no urge to binge or snack between meals and this in itself is amazing.

I think I just need to be patient - not my strongest suit.

Thanks for your input and I will keep tweaking things. I am going to add a piece of fruit to breakfast and lunch - I miss my fruit snacks and that will help bulk up those meals.

My curiosity with shovelglove has won the battle and I tried it this morning with a broom (don't have a sledge hammer yet - need to save to get one). Even with a broom I can feel lots of muscles that usually don't get too much exercise - I will keep up with the broom for a few weeks and maybe I can persuade my DH to get me a sledge hammer for my birthday in November - he is going to think I have finally lost my marbles - lol!!! Hopefully with 8MM and SG I will get the metabolism moving a bit more.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

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peetie
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Post by peetie » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:15 pm

Mo, I had to laugh when I saw you may ask for a sledgehammer for your birthday. Now THERE'S a romantic gift!

As long as you are feeling so good and not struggling from meal to meal, I'd say that in itself makes NoS a winner for you. We all tend to focus on the weight loss and forget that all the weight loss in the world won't necessarily make us feel healthy and strong and energetic. There's no point in being your dream size if you have to feel lousey to maintain it.

So, keep up the good work, and enjoy feeling so good. I think making the weight loss secondary, and focusing on the fact you aren't starving and bingeing is the way to go. The weight will follow eventually if you continue on your path.

Peetie

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Azathoth
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Post by Azathoth » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:57 pm

WARNING: I'm going to get into some specific numbers and caloric calculations below. This is quite contrary to the whole No-S system but since the discussion is regarding weight loss I'm going to toss in some facts. Feel free to ignore it in whole, but it's here if you want it

I'll just add a few general comments here that will probably touch on things most people have already said, but these are things that you must consider when striving for weight loss of any kind:

First off, no matter how you slice it, weight loss comes down to some pretty simply math: There are 3500 calories in a pound (~7700 calories/kg). If you utilize or "burn" 7700 more calories than you take in you will lose 1kg, if you take in 7700 more calories than you utilize you will gain 1kg. There is no way around this math despite what any quack diet program out there will tell you or any silly thing you read on the internet.

That being said, there are a large number of things that affect how many calories your body will utilize in a given period of time. It seems at a glance by looking at the math that if you cut out 1100 calories per day than you will lose exactly 1kg per week, but this may not be true for you at all (although for people who already eat too much, this formula would work well in their favor). In your case, based on the diet you describe, you are already consuming a very low amount of calories daily and this can lead to several things that have already been mentioned, probably the most important of these being your metabolism. If not receiving proper caloric intake your body will go into a sort of hibernation and will dramatically slow down its normal energy consumption (your basal metabolic rate, or BMR). To ensure this does not become a problem you should not consume less (at least initially) than about 85% of the calories specified by your active metabolic rate (AMR) (in other words, cutting 15% of your needed calories out). Sounds confusing, but I'll be more clear in a second...

Using some rough calculations based on the height/weight information you gave your BMR is probably somewhere in the range of 1400 to 1500 calories per day; this is the number of calories your body uses to sustain itself. Throwing in the "light activity" you do daily and you probably utilize 1820 to 1950 calories per day. This means that you absolutely should NOT be eating less than about 1550 to 1658 per day, and doing so would not only be hazardous to your health but would also begin to slow down your metabolism.

That being said, you certainly do not need to cut out that many calories, and I do not suggest counting calories as this can lead to very dangerous dieting habits which is EXACTLY what No-S is trying to save you from. Just keep this in the back of your head, and be aware that without increasing your activity levels you are going to find it very difficult to lose weight.

(End dietary rant here)

No-S is an EXCELLENT tool for building good eating habits backed with sustainability. However this alone is NOT the weight loss tool of the gods unless paired with good exercise habits. I understand that you feel you do not have time to add more walking in your day but I strongly urge you to do so. Even a 20-minute walk a day would boost your metabolism and allow you to be able to burn more calories throughout the entire day than you would otherwise. Increase that walk to an hour, or split it into two 30-minute sessions and you've increased your bodies need to burn calories even more.

I will wrap up this ridiculously long diatribe by saying that exercise is the link to weight loss, there is no way around this. People have and will continue to make money on diet fads, exercise machines that take all the work out of it for the user (and are therefore useless), pills that claim miracles, and other nonsense but there is NO true substitute for exercise. Your body expects it, you eat food to prepare for it, and the longer it is avoided the more your body will attempt to store to be ready for it. No-S is a perfect system for regaining control of your eating life. It is a tool, and in combination with other tools it can be a powerful one.

Good luck on your quest, you are doing excellent so far and I wish you nothing but the best of luck as you continue to make a conscious effort to better yourself and your lifestyle. It is exactly this kind of effort that leads to success, and you are on the right track. Don't let a little fluctuation in your weight fool you, getting a handle on your lifestyle habits is the first step, and you've made that step gracefully. This is something you should be proud of and should also serve as a base to build from as you continue to strive towards your goals.

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gratefuldeb67
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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:19 pm

Hi Mo!
Glad you dropped that little gain... I had a dream about your problem last night...
It occurred to me that you had been having problems with your Gastrointeritis (booooo! tummy stuff stinks!!!) and, not to minimize your nos and exercise efforts, in retrospect I realized that you may have lost a lot of water during that time... No one ever keeps off "sick" weight loss...
It always comes back on... This is your body getting back into balance and homeostasis...
So, anyway...
There's what I took away from that dream... It's a moot point now, anyway because you have lost it again! Yay!!!! But keep it in mind for the future...
Hope you don't have any more stomach disorders in the near future to beging with! :wink:

Peace and Love,
8) Deb

Who always has the most interesting dreams, about the most interesting people!!!!
(Ala Bugs Bunny!)

Have a nice night with your fam!

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:37 pm

Thanks for all the great responses to my posts

Peetie - Lol - we gave up on romatic gifts a long time ago - we rather buy each other what we want (I usually get books - Yippee!) I am feeling good - it is more just the fact that this seems to work wonders for everyone doing it, so why not me??? But that is foolish I know we are all different and my body has always lost slowly. The size I am aiming for would still be considered too padded for the ideal, but I like me there.

Azathoth - Thanks for refreshing that info for me. I don't think I am starving my body as even on S days I don't end up eating terribly much more. I hear you on the exercise but from a purely practical point of view - there are only so many hours in the day and currently there are no spare 1/2 hours floating around. Unfortunately with small children basics like food, bath and bed are not negotiable! I am hopeful that as they get older I will have more time to me and then I will manage some form of walking / riding / swimming.

Debs - I hope it was not too much of a nightmare. I know that the 2 losses I had and the following weeks gains were purely due to gastro and that the liquid balance takes time to recoup, but when I kept gaining I was getting fed up.

I am feeling better this week and once again am not bothered what the scale says - I feel healthy, I know I am eating well and that is what counts.

Thanks for all the support
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

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gratefuldeb67
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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:59 pm

Mo! It wasn't a nightmare at all... LOL..
It was just like I had one of those "Note to self" moments while I was sleeping, so I thought I should pass it on to you...

Hope you have a great week!
Do people celebrate Halloween in South Africa?
Love,
8) Deb

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