Imogen's Daily Check In

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:24 pm

Great job Imogen!!
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by Imogen Morley » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:20 pm

Dammit.
The "sweet Thursday" tradition in my workplace (combined with terrible social pressure to eat) is not making it any easier for me. Countless of times I explained that I didn't eat sweets, that I had blood sugar issues, and I even mentioned my ED history. It's so effing infuriating that eating disorders are not considered real problems. People just laugh or wave their hands dismissively. Comparing their nagging about food to offering a drug addict a nice dose of crack sounds ridiculous to them. And it is me who ends up as weirdo.
I've been reading about wandering S-events, and the idea sounds very tempting - I can partake on social ocassions, and sometimes have a treat when I need it most. I did well when I was having three pre-scheduled desserts every week, and refrained from snacking and seconds. I might give it a shot when I figure out a reliable tracking system for HabitCal... In that case my rules would be:
- 3 plates a day
- no snacks
- no seconds
- 4x a week single moderate serving of sweets after meals (not tiny one, and not humongous either), can't accumulate
- single serving as in: 5 biscuits or 1 XL biscuit, 2 small rectangles of cake, 1 triangle/slice of cake, pudding cup, 1 pastry, 1 ice cream scoop/bar, 1/2 chocolate bar, 3 pralines, 1 candy bar.
Would be great to remember to buy smallest servings possible - if there's more, I'm going to eat it all.
Last edited by Imogen Morley on Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by finallyfull » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:21 pm

I hear ya, but I hate the idea of changing to fit the broken culture! Those people at work probably only have one single model of normalcy, and she's about to give in!

It takes superpowers to walk away from that kind of relentless crap. But you have really been a success story, so I hope that when you say "no thanks" you also feel a sense of satisfaction that you are master of your own domain?

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Post by Imogen Morley » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:01 pm

But the thing is, I WANT the doughnut or whatever they're trying to shove at me ;) That's what it makes refusing so hard. In my case, out of sight = out of mind. But when people are eating something finger-lickin' good in my presence, and urging me to have some, too - failure is my default setting.
Wandering S events would be just like budgeting, and I'm excellent at budgeting. The key is always the same, core concept of No S: strictness. If I devour my weekly allowance in one sitting, it's gone. It's over. No bargaining, no wiggle room.
Today was OK - three super tasty, moderate meals. Tomorrow I'm seeing a (potential new) friend, and we're probably going to grab a cup of coffee somewhere. Next week is going to be abundant with S-opportunities, so I need to keep the boundaries intact, fence around the law, and start being picky about my treats.

finallyfull
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Post by finallyfull » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:53 pm

I will be interested to see how it goes -- S events, if limited, and chosen carefully ahead of time, makes a ton of sense. In many ways, it makes more sense than my current "fill your face" weekend. I also like the idea of having an "s" when I want one, in order to maybe eliminate that subtle but powerful urge to make "sure" I have S'es on the weekends. But it's too soon for me. I need solid, regular N days each week right now to show me what I'm capable of, and to train me to make my meals count. But one day I might take off the training wheels and see if a few alloted "s events" might make more sense.

Keep us posted!

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Post by Imogen Morley » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:32 pm

Yeah, PLEASE, keep checking up on me! It's a huge motivator.
Re HabitCal: red = failure, yellow = contained S event, green = just plain N day

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Post by automatedeating » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:54 am

Hi Imogen,
The discussions of planned treats always reminds me of my Dad's eating habits. He grew up having ice cream on Saturday nights. It was a huge treat, but pretty much the only one of the whole week. I don't aim for anywhere near that kind of strict limit, but i do admire it!

Regarding tempting snacks at work, this is a huge one at my job, too. I have three strategies I notice myself using.
1. I don't look at them if i have to be in that room with them. In fact, I notice I walk as far away from the table as possible and keep averting my eyes.
2. When people pressure me, I imagine actually eating it, and realize how quickly the pleasure would fade and the remorse would set in. I use this strategy a lot.... but I wonder if it might backfire for some people. But it does seem to work for me.
3. If someone is incessant, I actually take the food, walk back to my office and squish it up in a napkin and make it look gross and inedible, then put it a garbage can away from my office. I know, this one makes me sound crazy. I won't deny it. I am a little crazy.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:44 pm

Ha, I remember pouring an entire bottle of nail polish into a jar of nutella!
Feeling fine about the S-events idea. I experimented a bit this morning and had a big bowl of porridge (rolled oats+milk). I ended up rummaging the cupboards three hours later. Nothing beats a protein-rich breakfast in my book!
I've kept today S-free. I know there's a cake to be served tomorrow at family dinner, but it's not my favourite, so I'm going to skip it. On Tuesday and Wednesday I'll be attending birthday parties of close family members, so I save my S-es for the really good stuff.

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Post by Kittykat150 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:25 pm

Automated....you are not crazy. You used an aversion therapy technique by squishing up the food. It is very effective to rid yourself of temptations. I often look at a plate of doughnuts/pastries/muffins at work and visualize that a band of little kids pawed them or sneezed all over them and ran out just before I entered the room. Not appetizing at all after that! Works every time!....(and people think I have willpower. All it takes is a sick imagination.)
:shock:
Kat
"Never give up, for that is just the place and time that the tide will turn." -Harriet Beecher Stowe

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:17 pm

Lol, that is hilarious. Like imagining the audience in their underwear to overcome stage fright. Donuts in underwear?
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:26 am

First week went well. Red Tuesday, yellow Thursday, and today I'm going to indulge in a superb pastry = 2 S events + failure.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:39 pm

Red. Here I go again. I didn't have any big psychological needs, felt pretty fine all day, but in the evening I started stuffing my face. Sheesh!
Not going to give up my plan, though. Tomorrow I'll be attending my sis-in-law b-day party, and the day after tomorrow - my dad's, so I'm not expecting any weight loss this week (less time to exercise, too). Maintenance would be absolutely fine.
The scale hasn't budged even a tiniest bit for the last two weeks - 51,4. I'm pretty much sure it's all been just water/waste weight, but yeah, it's a bit unnerving. We'll see how that goes on Saturday.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:43 am

New day, new start. I'll be trying to focus on three moderate plates a day, without calorie counting if possible. Sometimes counting makes me actually eat more - out of fear of possible undereating, I add nuts or extra bread to reach 500 calories per plate, which most of the time isn't even necessary, as calories tend to even out over the course of the week.

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Post by Sinnie » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:52 pm

It still sounds like you are doing great, but I totally understand the frustration. I have the same problems as you know. I envy your weight though ;) You really have done a great job figuring out how to keep it low while eating delicious things.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:46 pm

I'm SO mad at myself. I went to a birthday party this afternoon, and polished off four pieces of cake instead of the two I'd planned, plus salads. That makes two red days in a row, and I don't mean minor slip-ups - both were spectacular, over 1000 kcal failures.
I'm very conflicted about the whole "wandering S-events" idea right now.

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Post by Sinnie » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:50 pm

Same thing happened to me. I love the idea of S events, like 3 a week or whatever. But I abused it. Maybe if I stuck it out more than a day lol I'd learn to use them properly. I just am really starting to wonder about the appropriateness, for me, of S days. I kinda like just sticking to three meals day in day out. Not sure what to do either..

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:26 pm

Yes, definitely!
For quite a long while I weighed 110/50, then I got lazy, and now I can't seem to get below 112/51. I did some maths. 5x1500 kcal (N-days) + 2x2700 kcal (S-days) = that's maintenance. 7xN-days + 4 treats per week (1200) = that's a healthy range of weight loss for me. I realize that 51 is not bad in any case, but I felt best at 50. My vanity is going to kill me one day...
Wandering S-days make habit-building next to impossible. You can't have clear-cut rules while doing it, you just can't. It's not "binary" enough. And randomness is precisely what makes us fall off the wagon, diet-wise. Also, I can't eat "just one" - I want more and more.
Getting ready to take just one S-day per week, Sunday. Most of my food-related socializing falls on Sundays, and there's only so much damage you can do in a single day...

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:04 pm

Sorry you can't seem to find just the right solution for you. Must be frustrating. As for vanity, I notice I care less about that stuff as I get older. I think it's because I realize the periods in my life where I was thinnest didn't necessarily correlate with being happiest.

On the other hand, the periods in my life where I've felt most at peace w food have led to confidence and happiness so that's what I try to focus on most. You may want to get to a certain weight but your body may have other plans for you. Bodies are complicated things and weight is not as straight forward as calories in, calories out.

I know it's difficult but if you can try to focus on habits of moderation while respecting & accepting the wonderful, healthy body you have now it will save you many years of suffering. I don't mean to be preachy but I guess I wish I could tell this to my younger self!

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:35 pm

Thanks a lot for such a thoughtful reply.
My last post made it look as if I cared about the weight/looks alone, but it isn't the whole truth: I'm so very, very tired with constant S-day rollercoaster, N-day strictness followed by wild abandon on weekends, and that's why I originally wanted to replace full-blown S-days with S-events scattered throughout the week. The thing is, even though I've always had excessive S-days, I was able to lose weight anyway, so I never worried that much about being an idiot. But when I have just two meager pounds to lose, wild S-days = no progress. So let's make it just one wild day per week, shall we?
At the very beginning of No S I thoroughly enjoyed my complete, idiotic freedom, that wonderful feeling of being free from ANY rules. Yeah, I finished every weekend bloated, uncomfortable, and stuffed, but never miserable, because hey, N-days were coming, and I was so much looking forward to them! Then the less I weighed, the more I focused solely on weight, not habit, and I became dissatisfied with my S-days, believing I was losing the same three pounds over and over again, week after week.
In my past, thin days were always the happiest (not because of the weight, no, but simply things were going the way I wanted them to go, for some reason), and the assocciation is still incredibly strong in my mind. 2 lbs up shouldn't really matter, but after getting all the way down to my "dream weight" I feel like such a failure for those two pesky pounds I can't get rid of.
Your post, Linda, made me realize that I really tend to focus too much on weight, and that's probably the root of the problem - "what you focus on, grows".
Sorry it's been such an incoherent post, but the sugar fog is clouding my brain. But damn, my sister-in-law makes the best cheesecake in the world, and she served it warm. Yum. If I'd simply called tonight an S-evening, I wouldn't have regretted anything nor felt guilty like I do now. And tomorrow another party's coming - I want to make the afternoon S-ish, and not follow any rules. I can't fail on S-days. Whenever I come up with S-day rules, I end up breaking them all, and then I want to fix my bad mood with more eating.

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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:08 am

Nothing wrong with a little vanity. We all want to look our best. I just think it's important to keep it in perspective and not make it our only goal. I'm certain nobody else notices those two pounds except you. But I totally get it.

All through high school I weighed 128 but my dream weight was 123. I obsessed over these 5 lbs day & night and occasionally I'd reach it. It was if the clouds parted and I felt like a completely new amazing person. Looking back on it, I'm doubtful those 5 lbs made that much of a difference. I acted differently at 123 lbs & therefore was treated differently. It was all in my head and I can't help feeling like I wasted a lot of precious time and energy trying to lose those 5 lbs.

So I hope you don't feel like I'm judging you or anything. I've been there and just hate to see you suffer needlessly. The more I focused on depriving myself in the name if weight loss, the more often I'd binge in rebellion. Once I made having peace with food my priority, it was a piece of cake to follow NoS. I was approaching this from a place of self-love instead of self-hate and therefore there was nothing to rebel against.

Not sure if any of my rambling makes sense or applies to you but just thought I'd put it out there. We all have to follow our individual paths and what is right for one person may be totally wrong for another so in the end you just have to decide was is truly the best path for you.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

finallyfull
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Post by finallyfull » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:07 pm

One thing nice about these boards is we can all conduct "experiments" for each other and maybe save some time & struggles! How your wandering S events turned out is helpful for me to see, because that's why I'm holding on to vanilla. (Vanilla with an emphasis on SOMETIMES -- no more random eating on weekends, just desserts and naturally occurring appetizers, maybe popcorn at the movies). I need structure, because disorganization is what sneaked fat on to me one S event at a time. (I didn't know they were S events then, just though they were grazing or "just this once"ing.

Imogen: you are THERE. You are there. You are THERE. Those two pounds are a mirage created by Satan himself to lure you into the abysmal abyss of diet head. Go put on your nicest outfit, turn up some music and celebrate success. The two pounds are bait. Don't let perfect be the enemy of awesome. Find a new food goal, such as making a new kind of breakfast or buying a pretty cheesecake display plate.

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Post by jw » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:00 pm

Love these last two posts -- love this board!

Imogen, I guess I didn't realize you were so close -- yes, you are as good as there, weight-wise, but you're not as happy as you should be about your great progress and your good habits, as well as your almost ideal weight. Somebody very wise (I forget who) said that perfection is boring -- it's the slight imperfection that makes for great beauty. So assume that the extra two pounds are your slight imperfection, and walk out the door like a great beauty!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by Imogen Morley » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:11 am

B: kefir/banana/cinnamon smoothie, bread/butter
L: 2 slices spinach/cream cheese/salmon roulade, 3 slices homemade pate
D: pasta, small pork chop in cream sauce, clear chicken broth

I'm reducing my fiber intake because of some digestive issues I've had. My impression is that insoluble fiber in my usual (fairly large) quantities doesn't agree with my stomach.
Thank you all for your general awesomeness :) This board is an unbelievably friendly place, and everyone is so respectful! Hope it stays that way for years to come.

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Post by automatedeating » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:31 am

Imogen, I have been consistently impressed with the tolerance and encouragement that I see on these boards. I usually consider myself the meanest person on these boards..... ha! :)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm

Post by Imogen Morley » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:43 am

B: 1/2 bread roll/butter/egg salad, broccoli, kefir/banana/cinnamon smoothie
L: buttered and sugared pasta with quark cheese, big mug of cafe au lait with 1/2 t sugar and full-fat milk

Bleh. Another fail.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:50 am

B: 1/2 bread roll/butter, quark cheese/chives/cream, OJ, a couple of grapes, ginger/honey tea

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:45 am

Saturday was very tame. As usual on the weekend, I had just two meals - late breakfast and two course dinner - but made sure I didn't snack between those two meals, and had a big, 600 kcal dessert after dinner (assortment of cookies, pralines, and cakes). It felt GREAT, even though I had to fake being confident and disinterested around sugary stuff. Wish I could stick with it long-term... We'll see. I need to focus on keeping N-days green, being strict about the one plate rule, and not exceeding my self-imposed caloric limit for sweets on S-days.
Sunday went okay, though I had a slightly bigger dessert than I'd planned, and an overfilled dinner plate - gonna mark it as yellow (near miss).

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:43 pm

I need to remember how good it felt to stick to my goals on S-days. That was a really enjoyable, positive feeling, a sense of accomplishment - very different than my usual weekend condition: being physically stuffed, miserable, or desperate.

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Post by Anoulie » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:46 pm

Hey European No S buddy! I was just wondering how tall you are, because at your weight, you must either be really skinny or really short or -- both? :lol:
There's only us, there's only this
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss.
No other road, no other way,
No day but today.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:49 pm

155 cm, pear-shaped, and by no means skinny, although not chubby either thanks to Reinhard and the rest of you :wink:
I've forgotten about food altogether today - went out to see Thor: The Dark World with my friend, and I was too excited to think about dinner, hehe. I'm such a fangirl... But that's one of the secrets of the "naturally slim": they have other, more interesting things to do than just eat. When I'm pleasantly busy and engaged, I rarely think about food before the actual mealtime comes.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:45 am

Already had a little fail today: 4 sugar biscuits right after my lunch. Gonna mark it as yellow and move on.
EDIT: I should've known better. "Innocent" and "insignificant" couple of biscuits morphed into more biscuits plus some chocolate after dinner. That's a honest red day... *sigh* Determined to made the rest of my week green. Sadly, I won't be exercising as much as I used to, so that's certainly something to remember before Saturday weigh-in. Next week should be better, but my full attention has to be on green N-days and contained S-days nonetheless.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:32 pm

Green day under my belt. I was white-knuckling it between lunch and dinner (boredom eating attacks!), but a cup of cafe au lait helped a lot.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:58 pm

Fail: snacking and sweets. I need to eat more nuts with breakfast, and up my protein intake.

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Post by automatedeating » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:34 am

I have been white-knuckling it between lunch and dinner this week, too, Imogen. Do you think the protein would help me, too, or is there another reason you mention needing to up your protein besides filling you up? Does that make any sense, gosh, I'm a zoo today...
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by Imogen Morley » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:19 am

May depend on your bloodtype, but I've noticed that in my case, eating more protein/less carbs makes me satisfied for much, much longer - on days when I include almonds in my breakfast and consume a decent (3 oz.?) portion of protein with every meal, I basically forget about food between meals. Might be physiological as well as psychological. My iron-clad rule is to eat things like eggs/meat/fish/nuts/Greek yogurt for breakfast and lunch. Carb-heavy dinner isn't a problem then.
For the same reason I do my best to stay away from carbs/sugar between meals, as they make me ravenous for HOURS.

EDIT: Success today! Protein rules ;)

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:23 pm

It's barely 1 AM, and I've already failed spectacularly. Failure in the context of S-days means compulsive overeating, mindless snacking, and sugar coma.
I actually LIKE being hungry. Somehow I always imagine how wonderful it's going to be on the weekend, when I can eat everything I want, whenever I want... but it turns out it's not at all satisfying. Without hunger, without craving, there's no real satisfaction.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:41 pm

My scale broke down again, so I wasn't able to weigh myself yesterday.
Sunday's been a lot better - I managed to stay within my limits (so far!) and refrained from snacking, and arrived at the dinner table pleasantly hungry. ("Pleasantly hungry" is the concept I feel only NoSers can grasp ;)). I kept reminding myself that overindulgence doesn't feel as good as I imagine - quite the contrary.
I've already planned my treats for next weekend. I'm such a sucker for pastries!

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Post by lpearlmom » Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:34 pm

Glad today is going better. My Saturday was pretty over the top too so I can relate. Definitely not a great feeling!
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:29 am

Yesterday ended in a spectacular fail eventually :/ It's madness - I regain all the weight I've managed to lose on weekends.
Very discouraged right now.

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Post by jw » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:07 pm

Imogen, I started No S on a weekend and since it seemed crazy to eat snacks and sweets, I treated the days as N days. Someone on the board (wosnes, maybe?) wrote, oh, you should have taken your S days, because on S days you can't fail.
Two days a week, we have this get-out-of-jail free situation -- we can't fail! So don't be hard on yourself -- you overindulged a bit on an S day, but you didn't fail. :wink:
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:19 pm

And I started my NoSing on a weekend and made the most of it! My husband and I kept giggling that I was really into moderating my eating now (not).

Imogen, your body is very small now. It could be that it needs a little extra on the weekends! Maybe maintaining at 110 requires some movie-star like obsession....and that's probably not worth it.

As always when I shoot my mouth off, I apologize ahead of time if I've overstepped my bounds.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by kccc » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:12 pm

Imogen,

You can't fail on S-days...so please don't expend your energy beating yourself up. It wastes your energy and leaves you feeling... well, beaten up. (BTDT... and trying not to go there again.)

I too have always had a tendency to have over-the-top S days (happens when I'm stressed - though No-S contains my "comfort eating," I still do it). Lately, I've been trying to develop "open curiosity" about when/how I eat (rather than judgment), and that's helping me a lot. One question I am now asking on S-days is "am I enjoying this?" and if the answer is "no," I put the food down.

You can't go back, only forward. So look to the future.

Best,

KCCC

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:55 pm

You are all just too wonderful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!
I've always been a perfectionist, and I guess it shows. And I've always had such a weird relationship with S-days: enjoyment that soon morphs into displeasure, desperate attempts to eat as much sugar as I can before the weekend is over. I can't help it.
The weird thing is, I CAN eat sweets in a moderate fashion. I can eat mindfully, slowly, enjoying every bite. I can have some sugar and not crave more afterwards. The only problem is, I can't maintain that level of awareness for long. The moment stress/boredom creeps into my life, I'm done. I shift into autopilot mode and overeat or binge. Just as now. But there's hope, too: even though I was determined to eat everything I'd prepared for my binge-fest, I had to stop halfway through because I felt so sick.
The simplest answer to my woes is just to stick to N-day routine no matter what, and eat sweets on weekends veeery slowly. Slow eating works. I'm also not sure about pre-planning treats. I might dream about something particular for days, and when I lay my hands on it on Saturday, it's disappointing and completely unsatisfying... and resentment that my once favourite treat didn't live up to my expectations makes me more likely to binge later.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:18 am

The only remedies for wild S-days that I was able to come up with are the following:
- no rules, no limits regarding the "optimal" amount of S-es, just awareness
- eating whatever the hell I want as long as it tastes delicious and gives me real pleasure
- making eating formal, taking out plates/utensils
- eating really slowly, in tiny bites, savouring
- remembering that I can have it later if I want
- letting go of the N-day structure - if I really want to snack on sweets, OK
- I can't eat mountains of cake in the hope that overeating now will prevent cravings during the week. They WILL appear anyway.

Now, back to basics.
B: quark cheese/Greek yogurt/chives, bread/butter, 12 almonds
whole milk cafe au lait
L: 1/2 camembert, 1/2 bread roll, bell pepper, apple
D: ?

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Post by kccc » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:47 pm

Those rules sound really sensible and useful!

Hope the day goes well for you. One step at a time adds up to the journey!

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Post by automatedeating » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Quark cheese? Is that cheese from a duck? ;)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:01 pm

I definitely needed a good laugh :lol:
That's probably something unique to Central/Eastern Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_%28dairy_product%29
but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm virtually addicted to this stuff. So versatile, both in savoury and sweet dishes, and chock-full of protein.
Dinner was couscous/chicken/veggies, leftovers were put aside for lunch tomorrow. A little evil voice kept whispering all afternoon: "But you know you can eat in moderation. Prohibition fuels desire, the moment you can't have something you start to crave it - have some halva and enjoy it guilt-free". Well, there's a grain of truth in that reasoning. So I gave in, and later consumed some chocolate, too, and another bowl of couscous. Plus some other things. All in industrial quantities and inhaled in under two minutes.
I'm so fed up with myself. It's not even about the weight, just about the habit and all the randomness/craziness. I like structure, I thrive on pedictability. Then why am I doing this to myself?
Guys, I desperately want to reboot after four straight days of binging. Back to basics, three plates per day, no calorie counting, S-days are not my concern, just N-days. 21 days of vanilla start NOW.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:45 am

B: scrambled eggs, bread/butter, 2 slices homemade pate, banana
L: leftover chicken/veggie couscous, apple

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Post by Anoulie » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:32 am

Oooh you have Halva in Poland? Cool 8)

Good idea to stick to Vanilla -- I keep coming back to it, too. It's really the only thing that works long-term.
There's only us, there's only this
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss.
No other road, no other way,
No day but today.

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Post by finallyfull » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:50 pm

I just read your "mountains of cake" line, and I realize that that is part of what I'm doing -- I eat more stuff on the weekends in the hope that it will cure me of any desires during the week, but it does just the opposite.

I too have noticed that paying attention and asking if I really want something has led to the suprise conclusion that I've been eating stuff I don't want. Oops!

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Post by Imogen Morley » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:31 am

I was on the verge of binging yesterday evening. I'd found a sleeve of my favourite biscuits, and the internal debate started.
I've always been torn if it comes to vanilla No S. It was a tremendous help in the first two years of No S journey, no two ways about it. But now it seems like a hindrance, reinforcing binging/dieting mentality.
My fiance, who has witnessed my food struggles for almost 8 years now, is completely opposed to vanilla. While he can't deny its effectiveness at the early stages of No S, he's now afraid it does more harm than good. Well, I kinda share his point of view.
Yesterday I put four biscuits on a plate, poured myself a cup of tea, and started eating in tiny bites, as slowly as possible. Then I busied myself for a moment doing some work on my laptop, and reached for biscuits again, realizing that I was completely satisfied at that point. I ended up eating only two biscuits, and not thinking about them for the rest of the evening.
Whenever I focus on slow and mindful eating, or just alternate between reading a magazine and eating, taking small bites, I'm able to enjoy desserts in a sane, conscious way. But then I forgot, and get back to my dreadful habits (overeating, and fast, mindless gorging), which makes me feel like a failure and revert back to vanilla. And then, inevitably, comes the weekend, when I stuff my face because I can and because I feel deprived. Viscious cycle.
Three meals a day, no snacks is perfect. I like being slightly hungry. Sugar on empty stomach makes me feel yucky and I'm usually ravenous afterwards. Those are the lessons I've learned so far.
wosnes has been doing well with her "one dessert per day" mod. Not sure if that would work for me.
EDIT: smallish breakfast today, a bit junky lunch followed by a very small sample of celebratory cheesecake (boss' birthday). There were other sweets, too, but nothing tasted good enough to take a second bite. Small victory, but no more dessert for today. It's either 0 or 1.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:08 am

Yesterday was another success. Three tasty and moderate meals, no snacks, one small but heavenly dessert.
Today: breakfast as usual, a bit overfilled lunch plate+moderate dessert. Pizza for dinner (2 medium slices, fit perfectly on my plate). Doing pretty well so far. Still not tempted by biscuits in the cupboard or leftover mint truffle bar.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:41 pm

Success. Mostly junk food for my meals (kitchen renovation = no cooking, grrr!), small dessert after lunch.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:33 pm

Red, although not nearly as bad as my previous failures on vanilla. This has been a very, very hectic weekend, and I didn't have enough time to relax and pay attention to my meals/treats, so I definitely overstepped my "1 dessert per day" limit - but not in a binge-ish way. Not like in the past when the hope of better tomorrow ("I'm gonna stick with vanilla no matter what from now on, so I SHOULD "enjoy" and stuff myself to the point of being sick!") made me eat everything in sight. There's more sweet stuff coming my way tomorrow if I want to, so what's the point in compulsive overeating now?

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:54 am

Vanilla makes me feel panicky. Yesterday for the briefest moment I thought about getting back to it, and I ended up overeating. I automatically finished up biscuits and 1/2 of Kit Kat bar, then had some almonds, too. Dehydration didn't help either (another frantic day).
I shared an eclair with friend after lunch. Breakfast and dinner as usual. Feeling great, and my trousers seem to fit a little looser already. I do keep tabs on my calories, though, making sure I'm within my maintenance/slow weight loss range (depends on how the day goes and what dessert opportunities present themselves).

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Post by Imogen Morley » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:00 am

Tuesday went well. Three meals+small dessert. The scale has budged a little. Yay!
EDIT: Wednesday was uneventful. I really like this mod, even though so far I've been taking every opportunity to have my dessert daily. The pressure to consume MORE, MORE, MORE is gone, which is a tremendous relief. One small to moderate dessert is plenty, and tomorrow is never far enough to "justify" binging or compulsive overeating.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:29 pm

Thursday: success!

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Post by automatedeating » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:26 am

Imogen, what is your current mod? I know that generally you have tried to allow a small dessert daily to avoid all-day weekend binges, but then I thought you were going to try pure vanilla. What are you trying right now, and why does vanilla make you feel panicky? fill me in, girl. :)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by Imogen Morley » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:55 am

Your post made me laugh at myself. I'm the queen of mods! No wonder you've got lost.
I'm doing "one S per day" mod, the one invented by wosnes. A sweet treat every day (preferably after dinner) or a snack is an option I can take if I feel like it.
You know what the "Last Supper syndrome" is?
Even if just momentarily, you think of food restriction. You tell yourself, “On Monday I’ll cut back.†And then the Last Supper Phenomenon kicks in.
As soon as you have that thought of restriction, or that thought of possibly-maybe-in-the-misty-uncertain-future restriction, you begin to think about food – specifically, the foods that will soon become forbidden. You want them.
To resolve the tension, you hit on what seems like a brilliant solution – feast now, fast later. You empty the pantry, make a special run to the store, to your favourite pizza place, in anticipation of self-imposed food scarcity. You make what looks for all the world like a valiant effort to EAT ALL THE FOODS!
That's been the case with every single weekend during my 3 (soon 4!) years on vanilla. MUST EAT FOOD NOW LOTS OF IT OMG OMG! The moment I tell myself I can't have something for x days, I get insatiable cravings but having one pre-approved dessert every day takes away the anxiety wchich leads to overeating. And teaches me that I can be satisfied with very small portions.

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Post by jw » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:08 pm

Great description of Last Supper syndrome, Imogen! I have often wondered if we're wired to do this -- eat while you've got it, tomorrow there will be a famine. Bears do it, squirrels do it . . . Our food supply is no longer iffy, but our inborn signals still say, eat, eat, eat!

And look what happened when they took Twinkies off the market -- people were paying fortunes for a box of cheap snack cakes on the premise that they would never be available again. (Then of course they were reintroduced -- brilliant marketing ploy!)

I do like your one S a day mod. If things start leaning that way during the holidays, I may adopt it, too.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:33 am

Saturday was horrid - permasnacking, snacking on sweets, way too much food in general. I went to bed nauseated and stuffed. Restarting today. I'm throwing a belated birthday party this afternoon, but rules will be kept - three plates, no snacking, one dessert.

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Post by automatedeating » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:45 pm

Sorry, Imogen. Keep in mind during the party how you felt last night..... Maybe it'll help today.

This cold month of December seems to have nothing to do but tempt us to overeat!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:23 pm

Pretty sane Sunday (with a birthday party!), although I broke my "one dessert per day" rule - all in all, it looked more like an S-day. Normal breakfast with nuts, ten nothing until dinner - I had time to get properly hungry. One plate of lasagna, one dessert plate of fried bananas, one piece of my requested birthday cake, which I ate slowly and mindfully. I honestly didn't want a second helping when I finished. Small supper - a piece of bread with ham, another piece of cake, about 5 mini choco-covered biscuits, one caramel (I wanted to check how they tasted).
One thing I've been forgetting: I don't like chocolate, I totally hate its yucky aftertaste. Sweet breads, cheesecakes, puddings, and baked goods are divine, though. Or plain tea biscuits dunked in Earl Grey. Mmmm. Deprivation makes some foods look more appealing than they really are.
Sorry it's been such an incoherent post, but I guess I'm just tipsy...

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Post by Imogen Morley » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:29 am

Good question to ponder on before indulging: how will it make me feel, mentally and physically?
I got this idea after re-reading one of Victoria Moran's books. She writes about "the inner epicure" who enjoys the pleasures in life, and her twin, "the inner chaperone" who can guide you to notice the peak of an experience so you will know when to stop before the experience goes downhill.
I know that snacking ruins my appetite, and very often ends up in a massive binge. Same goes for eating on the run or standing in the kitchen with my head in the fridge. I know that chocolate makes my mouth feel yucky unless I wash it down with a generous amount of hot tea or milk. I know that slow and mindful eating works. The only problem is, I usually forget about what I know, and focus completely on what I want now, without thinking about the future.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:00 pm

Seems like (accidentally) I've been doing it vanilla-style this week. I do have intense cravings for sweets, but usually I'm too busy to think or remember about various temptations around me, so any fleeting thoughts about the cheesecake in the office fridge or the chocolate-covered biscuits in the kitchen cupboard pass fairly quickly. If I want something sweet a cup of tea with milk and some sugar does the trick.
Who knows, maybe I'll take two proper S-days this weekend? Might be educational to compare how much I lose on plain vanilla vs. "one dessert per day" mod. And since it's Thursday already anyway...

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:15 pm

*deep breath*

Well, I gained on vanilla without calorie counting - again. For somebody with my - very small - frame, "moderate portion" concept can be very deceiving. What looks normal for an average woman of my age is most definitely too much for a tiny person like me. I need to scale down a bit, but not necessarily count my calories or weigh my food.
I have binged all morning, which was to be expected. Binging on S-days is my habit. Habits are hard, but not impossible to break.
I've managed to lose a fair amount of weight on NoS, but reached a point where I can't deny that my eating habits are still far from healthy. I want and need to stop the N-day restriction/S-day binge cycle. I like having three meals a day and being hungry for them. Milky tea/coffee is perfectly fine as a snack/sweet replacement when cravings hit. But if my S-days stay as they have been for the last 3,5 years, I'm doomed. That's not recovery. That's not health, and most certainly, that's NOT what I call moderation. My S-days have always been planned binges. I WANT TO STOP IT.
Whenever I eat sweets mindfully and slowly, I do it in moderation - no binges, no overeating. But:
- the body can easily be fooled into thinking it needs sugar (lack of sleep, previous sugary/fatty meals etc.)
- emotions play a huge role here
- the constant vigilance and mental checking (do I really want it? Is it something I love? etc.) is so very tiring in the long run
I'll therefore let social occasions be my cue to indulge. All my binges are done in isolation, and to break the habit, I must eliminate the circumstances that allow me to engage in the destructive behaviour. So no solitary S-es. I can have dessert during pre-planned, social events, whether they fall on N- or S-days, and I'm not going to set any limits (like one serving of dessert) for these. If I want three scoops of ice-cream at once, OK. But only with other people, and only if the event and the presence of the sweet stuff was pre-organized. So, for example, a random shopping trip which all of a sudden ends in an ice-cream parlour doesn't count. A date with my girlfriends or anniversary dinner does.
And it doesn't mean I won't ever be able to eat my favourite treats - quite the contrary. I can always pick the occasion and company to share them. The key is to do whatever it takes to stop bingeing, and stop eating excessive amounts of food in solitude. I hadn't got fat because I was overeating on social occasions, I'd got fat because I was binging like there's no tomorrow, locked in the kitchen or my room. And I'm so very, very tired with this pattern. Overeating a little during Christmas or overindulging a bit in exotic foods when travelling is perfectly fine in my book and almost everyone does it occasionally, but the secretive, I'd-be-so-embarrassed-if-someone-saw-me-now thing I do is not.
Wish me luck, dear lurkers! My HabitCal needs some modifications: greens are days without S-es, yellows - days in which I partake in social eating of sweets/snacks, reds - full-blown binges.
Last edited by Imogen Morley on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:07 am

Interesting conversation yesterday evening. I was discussing eating habits of different cultures with a friend who had lived in Japan and Denmark (and travelled a lot around the world before establishing a family) and he confirmed my presumptions that in the majority of countries where people are predominantly slim and free of unhealthy food obsession, snacking and eating sweets is a social affair. That's very, very different from a stereotypical picture of girls eating ice-cream straight from the tub while watching TV and moping around after a breakup. J recalled the Swedish custom of taking fika in the afternoon - sort of a social coffee/tea break where people gather to share a cup and a few nibbles of cake, biscuits or some kind of sweet bread. The social aspect of eating is crucial here. He also recalled picnics that his Japanese students used to organize in parks - several people having good time and sharing crisps and beer under cherry blossom trees.
I am fascinated by his observations, which confirm what I've seen in Scandinavia, Italy, Greece, or Croatia, where solitary eating on the run is virtually unknown, but cafes, bars, and restaurants are full of people from morning to night. This is not to say that people in these cultures never overeat or are always slim - it's not that simple. But I'm fairly certain that snacking and having dessert on social occasions creates environment that is not conducive to bingeing or obsessing about food and weight.

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Post by NoSnacker » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:39 am

Hi first I love this last post..just reaffirming we as a cultural have surely let the food industry sell their stuff to us and we bought in on it, the snacking etc.

As for your other post about your weekends as I like to call them "Food Gone Wild", get it :)

Anyhow, I was in the same boat twice, this is my third attempt. I re read the No S boat and decided I was going to put a fence around my S days, sticking to 3 squares and a much desired dessert/treat. What I did with my treat last night was have it right after dinner..this way I was full enough...not that being full EVER stopped me from binging, most of my binging was done on a FULL stomach, hence why I think I have a hiatal hernia..

I think you are very insightful and will find a way to put a fence around your S days so they don't ruin all your N days. I quit in the past because of my N days as "Food Gone Wild".

I did find that yesterday I allowed myself foods that I never would eat -- in moderation..it was very freeing.

I also use 8 1/2 plates..I switched some time ago..helped with the visual..our minds can be tricked into thinking we ate a full plate.

But I might get yelled at for suggesting this...I just know 5 and 6 months in last time was too much for me to bare with the binge days..yup it was my green light to binge..not this time around...

Have a great Sunday...
deb
Age 56: SBMI=30.6 (12/1/13) CBMI 28.9 (2/2/14) GBMI-24.8

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Post by automatedeating » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:35 pm

Hi Imogen.
1. I totally get it that "moderate-looking" plates might actually be too much for a small person. But remember, you are near the bottom of your BMI range, which might very well require more work to maintain than if you were, say, 125.
2. Did you binge last week after you found out you had gained weight (and how much weight, I wonder?). Or are you blaming the weight gain on vanilla even though you had binged? Just want to be sure I am clear about what happened.
3. How do you define "binging"? I read about that so much on these forums, but I'm gradually realizing it is an "ill-defined" word. I am considering posting a general question about this.
4. Do you exercise (walking, or something gentle like that)? If you already do, ouch, that could be doubly frustrating to gain on vanilla. But if you don't, adding in just a smidge of walking (or 14-min of something, etc) could allow you to maintain on vanilla.
5. I think having a 'no sweets alone' is an EXCELLENT mod for a binger. Sort of like "no snacking" it just eliminated the option of overeating on sweets in private. And encourages you to hang out with friends. :)
6. Have you considered seeing a counselor? Or perhaps you are.... or have in the past? Because I am a big fan of counseling for all of us (I love my counselor, although I can only afford to go for a few months a year). It is wonderful to have someone supportive of you, who you are, and someone that has objective and practical advice.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:06 pm

automatedeating wrote: 1. I totally get it that "moderate-looking" plates might actually be too much for a small person. But remember, you are near the bottom of your BMI range, which might very well require more work to maintain than if you were, say, 125.
That's entirely possible. My desire to get back to my lowest weight ever (110/50) is just pure vanity.
automatedeating wrote: 2. Did you binge last week after you found out you had gained weight (and how much weight, I wonder?). Or are you blaming the weight gain on vanilla even though you had binged? Just want to be sure I am clear about what happened.
I binged virtually every weekend since I've started NoS 3+ years ago. If I didn't (can't even remember!), I had to put a lot of conscious effort into it. I've been writing down my meals for several weeks now, without calorie counting, just data to analyze later. It turns out that last (vanilla) week I was eating roughly 1900 calories per day, which is about 150 more than I need... if I'm to believe various TDEE calculators, of course. But you are absolutely right that my past binges (about 1 or 2 a week) are partly to blame for the weight gain. Touche! :)
automatedeating wrote: 3. How do you define "binging"? I read about that so much on these forums, but I'm gradually realizing it is an "ill-defined" word. I am considering posting a general question about this.
Helena has provided an excellent answer to your question on the general board, and I wholeheartedly agree with her (and other posters).
automatedeating wrote: 4. Do you exercise (walking, or something gentle like that)? If you already do, ouch, that could be doubly frustrating to gain on vanilla. But if you don't, adding in just a smidge of walking (or 14-min of something, etc) could allow you to maintain on vanilla.
I walk for about 30-60 minutes every day, and do aerobic workout 5 days a week, about 30-45 minutes each. Doing more wouldn't be sustainable!

automatedeating wrote: 6. Have you considered seeing a counselor? Or perhaps you are.... or have in the past? Because I am a big fan of counseling for all of us (I love my counselor, although I can only afford to go for a few months a year). It is wonderful to have someone supportive of you, who you are, and someone that has objective and practical advice.
That's a luxury I can't afford (it's either having my own flat or a therapist ;)). Thought about it a lot in the past, though.
I'm willing to experiment a bit with vanilla, but there's absolutely no way I could eat whatever I want on S-days and not gain weight. Some common sense/hard limits have to be applied - either the number of treats or their calorific value. Still mulling it over.

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Post by automatedeating » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:04 am

Imogen, thanks for all your answers to my questions (you'll probably not be surprised to learn I almost majored in journalism..... I guess I like interviewing!)

Wow, you are definitely exercising plenty and I agree more wouldn't be sustainable! That definitely must be frustrating to be gaining weight.

I'll look forward to hearing more about how/if you tweak vanilla and your continued to journey to accept your body, your eating habits, etc, etc.

Thanks again for sharing with me. I have learned so much from all you wonderful long-time NoSers.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

Imogen Morley
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm

Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:44 am

Having read my past entries in the private journal (where I also record my NoS successes/failures) I've decided to get back to my previous mod - "dessert after Wed, Fri, and Sun dinner". I'm going to take true and proper S-days on Christmas with absolutely no rules, though.

B: 2 hot dog sausages, red cabbage coleslaw, slice of bread
L: broccoli/feta omelette, banana
1 biscuit
D: rice pudding with cream, T pb

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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm

Post by Imogen Morley » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:01 am

52.2

B: 1/2 bread roll smeared with mayo, small pork cutlet, red bell pepper
L: rice pudding with strawbrries (YEAH!), 10 pretzel sticks
10 pretzel sticks
D: shrimp fried rice (Chinese restaurant)
1 biscuit, 1 caramel, 1 praline, 3 bites marzipan bar


I'm trying to stick to 3 meals a day, and in general, avoid being an idiot. An idiot would consider a small snack a complete failure, and proceed to binging in order to fix the foul mood... or because she wouldn't care anymore. I did break the rules yesterday and today, but tried to perceive those as slip-ups, not fails. No big deal. I have quite an appetite for sweets now (hormones, probably).

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Post by Imogen Morley » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:13 am

B: leftover roasted chicken, pickles, 1/2 bread roll
cafe au lait
L: open-faced kielbasa sandwich, red bell pepper, orange, 2 biscuits, 20 pretzel sticks
black tea/whole milk/sugar
5 pretzel sticks, 1+1/3 muffin (as a gift from the students), 2 more biscuits

Sugar between meals always makes me ravenous - somehow I've forgotten that today :/ Not too proud of myself, but hey, I'm not binging nor succumbing to the WTH effect. Nevertheless, I need to tighten up the rules: three meals, absolutely no snacks, no seconds, sweets three times a week.
Last edited by Imogen Morley on Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:54 pm

Imogen, good job resisting the wth effect! :)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

Imogen Morley
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm

Post by Imogen Morley » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:56 am

Binge yesterday. Ugh. I'm still avoiding responsibility for my weight gain and transferring it to my future self...

B: savoury French toast, 1/2 tomato, 12 almonds
cafe au lait
L: pasta/tomato/basil/mozzarella salad, orange, 1 sugar cookie (eaten slowly and mindfully, so good!)
D: 4 potato latkes, Greek yogurt, 1 t pb

My only focus now: no snacking, especially on sugary stuff. I don't binge as long as I keep up the three-meals-a-day structure, even if I include small treats.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:39 am

51.9

B: pumpkin soup, hard boiled egg, slice of bread with mayo, 2 squares raspberry chocolate
cafe au lait
L: Hungarian goulash soup, bread roll, t pb, 2 squares raspberry chocolate
D (will be): plain porridge with a knob of butter
Last edited by Imogen Morley on Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by NoSnacker » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:11 am

Hi, when I was looking at your reds regarding pretzels/biscuits, what I found eating low GI foods is pretzels and biscuits turn right to glucose which turns to fat quick.

I found other alternatives for my S days, but believe it or not pretzels are the highest GI food. Oh ya, and reminder how they push rice cakes on us as low fat diet food...well terrible just as pretzels.

I love pretzels and really don't miss them..did have them a few weeks ago and within 10-15 minutes my heart was racing...I'm thinking the rush of glucose..who knows.

But some of those foods can trigger your binges and bring on intense cravings for them.

Since I have switch up my foods a bit based on the GI index, I have not had those intense cravings to binge..

My apologies if I overstepped my boundaries here :)
Age 56: SBMI=30.6 (12/1/13) CBMI 28.9 (2/2/14) GBMI-24.8

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:22 am

I absolutely agree. Carby meals and carby snacks/sweets (*gasp*) between meals make me hungry, and that appetite is just insatiable. But KNOWING is not the same as DOING ;)
I feel great when I limit my carbs or even go Paleo-ish for a day or two a week. I've started adding more fats to my meals (black olives, a teaspoon of pb etc.), and I can already see a difference. I'll try to do my best to avoid snacking.

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Post by NoSnacker » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:27 am

Ya I hear ya!!!

It easy to say when not in the trance of the snack :)

Here's to having a great weekend with moderation in mind :mrgreen:
Age 56: SBMI=30.6 (12/1/13) CBMI 28.9 (2/2/14) GBMI-24.8

Imogen Morley
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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:19 pm

Actually, it's been a pretty good day. I refrained from snacking (but had an extra mini-meal), and had moderate portions of sweets only after meals. Funny thing: I wasn't going out of my way to get sweets today, rather accepted them into my life when the opportunities presented themselves. Mostly because I was stuck at home with a mild cold (plus there was a lot to be done before Christmas!), I had limited access to sweets. This is something worth keeping in mind: do not make your weekends revolve around sugar. No S teaches your to put food in its place, somewhere in the background, and stop the obsession - in my honest opinion, S-days should also reinforce that idea. I know I feel much calmer and happier when I go with the flow and not devote way too much of my precious time and attention to planning or obtaining the "perfect" treat. If the promise of reward doesn't live up to my expectations, I'm terribly dissapointed and regretful, and because I don't get the satisfaction I anticipated from my treat, I'm more likely to binge afterwards, compulsively seeking the sensory pleasure I imagine I get from sugar.
EDIT: I'm done with eating for today. It's been a pretty nice weekend. I've had some sweets, not too much, not too little, four meals on Saturday, two on Sunday - though of course, calorie-wise, it could have been better. But I won't let this better be the enemy of good. Eating my treats in a mindful way and only after meals, and avoiding snacking, has helped tremendously. No binging this time!
"I don't think there is much point in having an ideal weight. Have ideal behavior - habits of moderate eating and exertion. Whatever you weigh then is ideal."

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:53 am

B: sardine spread, b/b, 1/2 tomato, 12 almonds
L: green beans/mozzarella panzanella, apple
D: chicken soup/angel hair pasta, small pork chop, potato, mixed salad
:mrgreen:

3 days of Christmas, followed by a regular weekend, and then 2 S-days in the middle of next week... I'm already afraid ;) Not going to pile up any rules this time, I'll just try to eat whatever I want slowly and mindfully.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:36 pm

:wink: S-day!

Not much time to log my meals today. I did snack on sweets, and I'm not happy about it :( I've totally ruined my appetite, I'm already full, and the Christmas Eve dinner begins at 5...
My goal for the next three days: to enjoy my food with mindfulness and pleasure. Happy holidays everyone!

EDIT: UGH. So much for mindfulness! :lol:

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Post by Imogen Morley » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:50 am

:wink: S-day!

I went to bed yesterday so full I couldn't fall asleep.
Started this morning with a short workout and a walk after (moderate) breakfast. It still amazes me how much I've grown to love exercise, walking especially. If I miss a day, I feel gross, so I never skip two days in a row, unless I'm sick and feverish. Sometimes I crave that endorphine kick so much I work out multiple times a day. That's a HUGE change for me.
I plan to have lunch and dinner today, one plate each (including sweets). I did not eat mindfully enough yesterday, so that's also something I'd like to pay attention to.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:06 am

:wink: S-day!

I'm not being an idiot, but I certainly eat a lot - which was to be expected during Christmas time. And I'm not feeling guilty or remorseful, thank goodness! Overeating on holidays is not the end of the world, but rather a normal reaction to overabundance of special food that is accessible only once a year. I know I'll lose all the excess weight soon enough.
I refrain from snacking because I don't want to feel too full, so some lessons are definitely getting ingrained! That's my small No S success :)

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Post by automatedeating » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:46 pm

Great attitude, Imogen! It seems that you have become more gentle with yourself..... Good job!

Oh, and I love your smiley to mark an S day!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

Imogen Morley
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm

Post by Imogen Morley » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:29 pm

Thanks for the encouragement, automated :) You and other posters have successfully convinced me that: "(...) you're better off with something sub-optimal but sustainable than something optimal but temporary". And eating without any self-imposed restrictions or limits does indeed feel great! At some point it may lead to overeating, sure, but I've realized that as long as it does not become a habit, everything balances out over a longer period of time. And some N-day habits (like no snacking in my case) do spill over to S-days!
It would be great to say that I'm free from my "vanity weight" obsession, and I don't care if I ever go all the way down to the mythical 50 kilos... Well, I still want that, but if my scale gets stuck at 51, I'm good, as long as it's my "happy weight" - shaped by weekday simplicity and moderation, and highly pleasurable weekend indulgence, not misery and compulsion.

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Location: Arizona

Post by lpearlmom » Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:32 pm

Yay--Imogen! What a great, healthy perspective!
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

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Post by Imogen Morley » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:44 pm

B: 3 slices pork loin roast stuffed with prunes, mixed veggie salad, 1/2 slice bread, glass of watered down OJ
L (will be): tomato soup/pasta
D (will be): roast goose, potatoes, carrot salad, orange
cafe au lait

:mrgreen:
Last edited by Imogen Morley on Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Imogen Morley
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Dec 28th

Post by Imogen Morley » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:45 pm

Long train journey ahead of me. I've already planned my meals, so if nothing goes awry, my Saturday is going to be a regular N-day (I need a break after the holidays!).

B (will be): pan-fried salmon, 2 slices challah bread, cafe au lait
L (will be): fried salmon/bok choy sandwich, apple
D (most probably): pierogi with sour cream

:mrgreen:

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Post by jw » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:55 pm

My "happy weight" - shaped by weekday simplicity and moderation, and highly pleasurable weekend indulgence, not misery and compulsion

I love this! This is liveable! And your meals are sounding particularly nice the last few days, too, Imogen. Enjoy your travels!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:20 pm

Hi there, I'm back after a longish holiday break (no internet where I was! - can you believe that such places still exist?).
Oooooh boy. So I DID try keeping up with the vanilla No S during the last 7 days, and I had one not-so-terrible-bust-still-red-day, two decidedly excessive and idiotic S-days, plus four... well, pinks. Because I was on holidays and surrounded with delicious, one of a kind food that I couldn't eat at home, I was putting whatever the hell I wanted on my three daily plates, even sweets, but I refrained from snacking and taking seconds. For that short period of time it definitely worked. Weigh-in tomorrow.

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Post by automatedeating » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:22 pm

Welcome back from your travels! Sounds delicious. :)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

Imogen Morley
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm

Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:58 pm

Quick update: I feel incredibly privileged to be a part of such a respectful, friendly community.
automated, can you see my next mod coming? ;)

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Post by Diligence » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:49 pm

Welcome back! Good for you to keep from snacks and seconds while you were away! :D

Imogen Morley
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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm

Post by Imogen Morley » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:00 pm

52,7. Wow, the pounds really have crept up on me in the last three months! Mostly due to numerous binges and idiotic S-days... which is entirely my responsibility.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:14 am

B: turkey and red pepper sandwich, 2 pieces of poppyseed roll, 1 large square of dark chocolate with caramel chunks
D: borscht with egg, breaded pork cutlet with sage, mashed potato, cabbage salad, 1 piece of poppyseed roll, 1 square of dark chocolate

All of the above fitted on my single meal plates. Yay!

EDIT: ... and Sunday ended up in a binge. Woohoo.
I've just read all my entries here, plus my Livejournal and Memiary stuff. Looking back at my eating habits (thank goodness for all the data I've been collecting, weigh-ins and food journal!), I fared best when I modified vanilla to have three pre-planned S-events a week: a moderate dessert after Wed, Fri, and Sun dinner. Unrestricted S-days and less than perfect N-days have made me gain weight, BUT even if I had been strict about N-days, calorie is still a calorie, no matter how you look at it. I counted. It looks like every week with unrestricted S-days I was gaining about quarter of a pound - enough to gradually get heavier and heavier.
Time to plan really delicious meals.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:34 am

B: open-faced sandwich with quark cheese, poppyseed noodles, 12 almonds
L: pasta/green beans/tuna salad, kiwifruit
D (will be): mashed potato, 1/2 breaded pork cutlet, cabbage salad, Greek yogurt with strawberries

:mrgreen:
Last edited by Imogen Morley on Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Imogen Morley » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:54 pm

Minor red day (two cookies with my lunch, and a handful of pretzels at work). Otherwise three fairly healthy and moderate meals. I've splurged on vanilla rice milk - oooh tasty!

:oops:

Still debating over planned vs. unplanned treats on S-days. If I plan to eat something or even buy it in advance, I feel obliged to eat it, even if I don't really want that treat. Reinhard has warned us against unplanned S-days, but I don't think they're that bad in my case - they allow me to go with the flow and get something that I really, soulfully want right in that moment. I'm also a bit unsure about snacking. I know, it's the devil here, I've said that many times myself - but if I know I have ONLY THREE CHANCES (that is, three meals) to get my sugar fix, I panic, and start cramming stuff into my mouth with downright desperation.

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Post by automatedeating » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:25 am

Imogen, I'm sorry if I've asked you this ten times, but what is the longest you've toughed out wild S days without a mod? I feel sure you've answered this for me before......

Would you be willing (if you haven't already tried this) to consider something like 3 full months of free S days? I wonder, worst case scenario, how much you could gain in that amount of time?! :twisted:
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0; 9/20-23.6
4/21 - 25.2

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