Imogen's Daily Check In

osoniye · Post by **osoniye** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:55 am

Hi, Imogen- I think you're doing great staying on habit, and your N day meals sound yummy! So many different kinds of fish. Do you live near the sea?
I think your choices for S days are 2. Either eat a big sweet thing in place of a meal as automated suggested, or have a pre-planned special sweet as dessert after any number of your 3 meals on S days. It seems to me that snacking and grazing are the big culprits, as they open the door to too many eating events, and the potential for too high a calorie intake in the day overall. Obviously the second option is the more healthy one, but really, why not try it both ways and see how you feel physically and emotionally and make your decision based on that?

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:52 am

Thanks for your suggestions. Although I do agree that snacking is a real killer, even without engaging in it I can gain weight on weekends. You wouldn't believe how much dessert I can eat after a meal without feeling stuffed

But the idea of a "meal replacement" is a good one!
However, I still think that S-days teach me to overvalue sweets, and that's not a good thing.

B: 1/2 cup red lentil/tomato spread, radishes, romaine lettuce, 1/2 whole grain roll, cup of rice milk
L: 1/2 whole grain roll, 3 anchovies, 1/2 tomato, banana, sugar biscuit, 20 pretzel sticks
D: bowl of barley/vegetable soup, 1 T pb, small piece of sunflower halva

osoniye · Post by **osoniye** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:04 pm

Hi, Imogen- yeah, I can put away a LOT of dessert, too. I guess I meant to suggest one serving of a pre-planned special sweet, as dessert after any number of your 3 meals on S days. (That would only equal 2-6 servings, I would guess.)

Imogen Morley wrote:However, I still think that S-days teach me to overvalue sweets, and that's not a good thing.

That is a really an interesting and challenging point! I have in mind to make fast food and crunchy snack foods S day treats as well as sweets, but will that lead to a tendency to overvalue sweets AND those things as well? I wonder what would happen if we restricted something like fruit to the weekends, and then had really good choices picked out to savor and enjoy, and even look forward to.
Thanks for raising that thought about overvaluing sweets... it's something I want to mull over.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:50 pm

I ate a fourth meal

But mom's rhubarb pancakes were certainly fail-worthy! For a moment I was tempted to go ballistic (WTH effect kicking in), but I managed to suppress the urge to stuff myself, because, hello!, binge calories are still calories. So are S-day calories

I plan to stay at home tomorrow, take things easy, maybe only leave the house for a short walk in the evening - depends on the weather. I'm still not feeling well, that nasty little cold is unusually stubborn. I've been dying to get my favourite ice cream on Saturday, but first I need to make that infection go away. So maybe next weekend?
I'm tempted to make next week an S-week. My fiance will be staying here for 6 days (we have a long-distance relationship), and because he knows how much I like trying new foods, we'll be eating out a lot, I suppose, and having a couple of decadent desserts. On the other hand, his visit is a treat in itself, so why do I need to add some other superficial pleasures? Won't be posting here for a while, that's sure.
I always seem to have one major problem with the calorie counting: sooner or later it makes me eat sweets "just because I can" (exactly like S-days!). Or because I have some calories left over. Today was a classic example of this. My lunch was ridiculously small and lacked protein, so I added a biscuit, and then some halva (tiny portions, but still), but that's not quality food that satisfies real hunger. That's why I couldn't resist pancakes in the evening - my body was screaming for more substantial fare.
Saturday/Sunday goals: stick with the usual three meals, one plate each (they can be crowded as long as vegetables/fruit take up half of them), and have ONE serving of sweets after meals, no seconds of dessert whatsoever. And by one I mean one predetermined "unit/serving" - three biscuits, a row of chocolate, a piece of cake, one scoop of ice cream... Size doesn't matter - I set a limit on the number of units, so I'll get a built-in measurement for every size and type of dessert. Feeling nervous!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:25 am

B: scrambled eggs, tomato, 1/2 wholegrain roll/butter, glass of cow's milk/rice milk, apple, 1 row of extra-thick milk chocolate
L: bowl of onion soup, 3 small garlic toasts, 1 plate of rice pudding with strawberries and sweetened sour cream (YESSS!!!) + (small) seconds
S: chunk of cheese with truffles, 1/2 wholegrain roll, tablespoon of olive oil, another row of chocolate

52.7/116
Pretty tame, huh? I looked at my list of S-worthy treats, and nothing was singing my name. Rice pudding with fresh strawberries seemed to be the only thing I genuinely craved and looked forward to. It's been a quite a relaxed, compulsion-free S-day. The chocolate was really mediocre, but I was okay with that. No snacking felt great! Of course I had to make conscious effort to have just one serving of chocolate at a meal and not automatically reach for more, but it was worth it. Also, I decided not to skip the third meal (well, I wasn't legitimately hungry) - it would have felt so "diet-y".

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:58 am

52.8/116

B: beans in tomato sauce, 2 slices of bread, orange, glass of vanilla rice milk
D: tomato soup/rice, potatoes, beetroot salad plus some lettuce mix, very small portion of beef stew, grape jelly/dollop of sweetened Greek yogurt, 2 slices of strawberry cheesecake
S: 2 bowls of rice milk/barley "oatmeal", 3 pralines

Not so terrible, but I definitely overate. Next weekend I might actually replace one of my meals with sweets, as auto suggested. Again I was tempted to skip the third meal, but as rice milk would have gone bad soon, I felt obliged to use it all up today. Now it occured to me I could have simply frozen it... On the other hand, I don't think that skipping meals on S-days is something I could live with long-term. First, it breaks the habit. Second, in my case it's less about "I'm not hungry" but more about "I need to skip the supper because I had a two course dinner". That's exactly the kind of bartering/borrowing credit from tomorrow that I associate with diets.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:13 am

B: beans in tomato sauce, slice of bread, orange
cafe au lait
D: tomato soup/pasta, chicken, spicy carrot salad, potatoes, apple
FAIL. Because I wanted to skip my third meal, I binged on sweets latr in the evening. How ironic.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:44 pm

Imogen, did you think you overate on Sunday because of the amount of food, or because of the way your tummy felt? Just curious how you define overeating. I think my definition is changing....

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:32 am

I tallied up my calories. I can eat huge, huge amounts of food before I start feeling too full :/
Back to the game after binging yesterday. I vow to eat three meals today (perhaps not all of them will be square, but still), no skipping. I need to work on meal composition - properly balanced carbs/protein/fat/fiber always make it all easier.

B: hot dog sausage, slice of bread, tomato, mixed veg salad, orange

EDIT: the whole day got crazy, and I ended up having 4 slices of pizza for dinner (instead of the usual two, which counts as an overfilled plate), plus barley porridge with almonds and a piece of cake for lunch. Ugh. Trying to stay positive.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:56 am

Unless I feel sick I don't believe in meal skipping either. It leads me to binge as well. Even when I'm overstuffed I try to eat at least something (even a handful) so my body understands the three meals habit. However, that has only happened three time since I started and usually after a fail.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:06 pm

I can't keep up with the vanilla No S. Going back to my old, and so far the most successful mod - three meals a day, no snacks, no seconds, and one serving of sweets after Wed, Fri, Sun dinner, and after dinner on other special days (holidays, parties etc.). Hope it helps reduce binging episodes, which have been so numerous recently... Rereading entries from my private livejournal was very elightening. The pattern went like this: 2 years of straight vanilla No S, which did help reduce my weight by limiting binging to two days a week instead of the previous seven, then a year of various - more and less successful - mods. I practiced "3 a week" mod for about four to five months, which helped me almost completely eliminate binging and lose even more weight. I was happily maintaining at 50.5/111 when at some point I binged, and consequently abandoned my mod, starting several futile attempts at vanilla and then various modifications. This has continued up to this point in my life.

B: sesame bagel, small piece of camembert, some egg salad, orange, 1/2 red pepper
coffee with regular&rice milk
L: 1/2 bagel with mayo and tomato
D: spinach pasta, strawberries
2 scoops ice cream

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:57 pm

I hope this works for you Imogen!

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Fri May 02, 2014 5:49 am

I think you need to do whatever works for you. I think your mod sounds great, actually. I'm keeping that in the back of my mind as something to try for myself. For now, I am eating 3 meals a day, with a small amount of sweets each day. If that doesn't end up working for me, I may end up doing a similar mod to yours.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Fri May 02, 2014 12:57 pm

clarinetgal - great to hear other people still institute this mod! Mee too

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sat May 03, 2014 5:10 am

Well, no eating plan will result in lasting good habits and possibly weight loss if I don't stick to it long-term. I've been switching back and forth so much that I gained again, not to mention that I overindulged BIG TIME this week, in a truly idiotic fashion. So vanilla it is.

53.8/118 -> my clothes have gotten uncomfortably tight...

B: 6 small meat pierogi, broccoli, 2 huge strawberries
L: burger, potatoes, arugula/tomato salad, 2 pralines
D: oats with homemade coconut milk and strawberries, 2 pralines
a small sample of vegan chocolate cake (3 bites?)

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Sat May 03, 2014 12:44 pm

Good luck, whether or not you stay with vanilla. Conquering sugar addiction is hard! Sinnie, I'm glad you're doing this mod, too! I'm finding that in order to make this mod work, I can't keep a bunch of sweets in my house, and I have to be very strict about not eating after dinner.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun May 04, 2014 8:33 am

Very much enjoying my flexitarian/vegan-ish kick. I'd never have guessed how easy the transition towards plant-based diet would be. Of course, I'm not giving up anything, simply striving to eat more plant foods than anything else. Still had a splash of milk in my coffee, and planning to have an egg for breakfast tomorrow. I just reduced my portions of animal protein (eggs, dairy, meat, fish) to more or less half the usual size, and I choose vegan fare more often. There are plenty of vegan dishes I like, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on something. Win-win!

B: borscht with mushroom dumplings, orange
L: slice of vegan chocolate cake drizzled with maple syrup and sprinkled with chopped walnuts (WOW!), small cup of cafe au lait
biscuits and milk -> mindless snacking
D: asparagus soup with croutons, herbed pork chop, salad, 2 slices of chocolate cake, homemade strawberry sorbet

I'd planned to stop there, but in the evening I snacked on leftover cake, which led to more snacking - peanut butter, cheese, bread... Two things to keep in mind next weekend:
- snacking ALWAYS begets snacking, so don't even start!
- have breakfast, early dinner, and supper instead of breakfast, lunch, early dinner

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Sun May 04, 2014 12:41 pm

I'm glad that way of eating is working for you!

I have just started experimenting with Flexitarian eating, and I'm hoping I can find some plant-based dishes that work for me.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon May 05, 2014 5:43 am

B: 2 french toasts, tomato, orange
small cup cafe au lait
L: porridge with coconut milk, 1/2 banana, walnuts, 20 pretzel sticks
D: herbed pork chop, potatoes, sauerkraut

Pretty good (and green!) day. Debating over weekly vs. daily weigh-ins.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed May 07, 2014 7:35 am

I binged yesterday, for reasons too numerous to discuss here... Every time I binge, I consume 1000-2000 calories on top of what I've already eaten that day, which sets me way back - both in terms of weight management and habit formation. I'm very disappointed with myself, but not going to give up. Who'd have known how hard would the vanilla No S be the second time?
Been reading a lot about this research (http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/op/weightrhythms). It's been posted somewhere on the general board. Along with many other studies that support no snacking, this one also emphasizes how important weekday strictness is. "Take care of N-days, and S-days will take care of themselves". I wonder if my past failures (including yesterday's binge) were due to "premature optimization" of my weekends.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Wed May 07, 2014 8:48 am

Imogen, I responded on the General Discussion thread that I think it might have been pre-mature optimization.

After reading this now, can I also gently suggest that how you think about your "bingeing" is unhelpful.

I really don't want to offend so please know this all comes from kindness. Your way of thinking about bingeing doesn't leave a lot of room for a humorous, kind way of dealing with it, instead it seems to perpetuate the guilt and "diethead" and therefore the bingeing itself.

I used to binge as well, and sometimes I still do it, but way, way less frequently. What really helped me was to not think about S days as about me having binged but about something on the lines of: Yeah, so that was a bit of being an idiot LoL, but I learned a lot during Ndays and I'm delighted that here they are again."

I was also very proud of myself for ever meal that was an N meal on N days, never forgetting that my pre-NoS self binged nearly every day for about 3 weeks, had a good week or even two on restricted calories, went right back to bingeing and so on. I felt terrible about myself and I was very mean to myself in my mind. Talking about bullying: I bullied myself constantly for my bingeing.

It was a shift in perspective to S days being free and un-failable and N days being there to learn that really made the biggest difference. Far more than anything. I now live with a loving voice inside my mind and whether or not I binge - my happiness and quality of life have improved a lot. As a side effect I barely binge anymore because I have a way of stepping out of that cycle.

I apologize for the long reply. I very much hope you find a more positive way of thinking about your way of eating as it is so that you can step out of the cycle too.

I suggest to give vanilla NoS a go and try because I love it but whether or not you do it's far more important to try take on Reinhard's no-guilt way of thinking about "being an idiot" and failing - mark it and move on. Also, maybe review his strictness podcast. I think it is invaluable when it comes to stepping out of a guilt cycle that leads to WTH.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed May 07, 2014 9:38 am

eschano, I really appreciate your thoughtfulness. That's a lot to ponder on.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri May 09, 2014 8:40 am

Another unhappy experiment with vanilla yielded results which could have been easily predicted - weight gain and binges. I think I shouldn't have forced myself to be square when I am round, so to speak...
I'm getting back to my old mod - three desserts, 300-400 kcal each, after Wed, Fri, Sun dinner. Not having a real one today, because I'm stuck at home with some nasty cold - perhaps I'll just make a small bowl of poppyseed/honey/walnut porridge as dessert after dinner. I ADORE this stuff.

B: graham roll/butter, sprats in tomato sauce, tomato, apple
D: 5 hash browns, a bit of Greek yoghurt
S: porridge with oat milk, vanilla sugar and strawberries, 12 almonds

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Fri May 09, 2014 8:54 am

Sick days are S days.

And you're right: if vanilla isn't your thing, it's just not your thing

Your mod sounds just as moderate as vanilla anyways!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri May 09, 2014 10:55 am

It does to me too, but I can't fool myself: vanilla or mods, nothing will work long-term if you aren't strict about following the rules. No pain, no gain

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sat May 10, 2014 9:46 am

Ummm... found out something interesting. For curiosity's sake, I tallied up calories from some of my flexitarian days, mostly those when I had two vegan meals. Most of the time, my calorie intake was about 1200, and sometimes not even 1000... that seems to explain my binges! If my body was desperate for more food, the simplest and fastest way to deliver more energy was to devour all sweets in sight. It's actually pretty scary. For the last couple of weeks I've been eating way too little, and virtually starving myself! It's so damn hard to meet my calorie needs with three mostly vegan meals... From now on I'm adding a little more animal protein to my plates, and simply fill them with more food. No skimping!

r.jean · Post by **r.jean** » Sat May 10, 2014 1:11 pm

Imogen Morley wrote: If my body was desperate for more food, the simplest and fastest way to deliver more energy was to devour all sweets in sight. !

I totally agree. I learned early on that if I feel deprived, I will cycle back and forth between eating too little and eating everything in sight. So, the key for each of us is to find that happy medium. I achieve mine through vanilla No S and being aware of healthy food choices for my plates without any specific rules about my food choices. However vanilla does not work for everyone. Continue to do what works for you!

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Sun May 11, 2014 12:35 pm

I discovered something similar, when I tried Flexitarian eating. I felt like I wasn't getting enough, and I ended up bingeing. As I have said before, I think your mod sounds great, and perfectly moderate.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun May 11, 2014 3:29 pm

Yesterday went well, just a typical N-day. Today I managed to avoid snacks, but I messed up with my scheduled dessert after dinner, and ended up eating way too much of it. Still, it was ONE episode of overeating, and not four or more, as it used to be before on weekends.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Mon May 12, 2014 10:29 am

Hi Imogen, great insight about your flexitarian days.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon May 12, 2014 6:59 pm

I desperately needed a fourth meal today, had one, marked it, and moved on. I'm clearly not cut out to be on a nearly vegan diet. Even cutting back on my animal protein intake, especially at breakfast, leaves me hungry and does weird things to my blood sugar. I'm usually fine with a carby dinner and occasional lunch, but I need my eggs, fish or cheese (or beans&lentils, but their preparation is so time consuming if you don't want to rely on tinned food..) in the morning, no two ways about it. I believe it will help me get my cravings under control, restore energy, and improve adherence to No S, as it did before.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Tue May 13, 2014 7:58 am

I completely understand! Are you switching it to vegetarian + fish rather than vegan?

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue May 13, 2014 10:38 am

I'm reintroducing all animal foods in quantities I used to eat before. I love dairy, eggs, and fish, and have a moderate portion of meat only one or two times a week. I just don't like it that much. Seriously, reading about dangers of animal protein made me freak out a bit, but then... shouldn't the quality of life be more important than longevity itself? Protein-based meals allow me to take my mind off my palate and forget about food until it's time to sit at the table again. Vegan fare (except for beans and lentils, that is) makes me tired, hungry, and slightly food-obsessed. Maybe it's really the healthiest way to eat, at least for the body, but I don't think it's that beneficial for the mind. And maybe not for the body either, in the long run... if I skimp on protein, I end up eating way too much sweet stuff, and eggs, fish, and dairy are my vehicles for mountains of vegetables.
I'm following the thread about wild S-days on the general forum with great interest. I'm somewhat ashamed of my opportunism, switching between vanilla and mods all the time for the past year. I very well know that my indecisiveness is the main factor in my recent weight gain. There's something elegant and sophisticated in pure vanilla No S, that is, if your S-days are not bingefests

I always end up wishing it worked for me as it seems to work for others, but perhaps - the fault is not in vanilla, but in me: the indecisiveness mentioned above, and impatience, and premature optimization, and diet-like approach towards NoS.
Here's the kicker: I've been offered a job in London. No kidding. I still can't wrap my mind around it! My lovely friend who moved to England last year has recommended me in her place, as she's going to move to Scotland in a couple of months. They called me on Skype, we talked for a bit, and today I got an e-mail offering me her position as soon as she leaves for Edinburgh. I've never really considered moving abroad, I'm too attached to my family and friends, and places I know... besides, I've just bought a flat! That's a very tough decision to make. I love my job, I'm appreciated and showered with bonuses and pay rises on a regular basis, and really enjoy my life here. I'm not ready for such a big change! I doubt I'm the type of person who would feel at home in such a busy city - quite the contrary. Of course, all the stress is making me eat, eat, eat with wild abandon, as if sugar biscuits could provide the courage I need. Ugh. I have no idea what to do.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Wed May 14, 2014 9:39 am

Oh Imogen, so much to decide!

If you come to London we can go for coffee and cake (on an S day)

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed May 14, 2014 3:25 pm

Invitation accepted!

I'm still wrestling with my thoughts, weighing pros and cons... but not listening to any advice. It is me who will live with the consequences of my choice.
SUCCESS today. Dinner plate was twice the usual size (I don't know how I managed to squeeze so much food in without taking seconds!), but it's okay. I'm kind of restarting all over again, learning proper habits - still at the stage where I fear being hungry.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu May 15, 2014 6:17 pm

Another SUCCESS - big, protein-filled breakfast, small and light lunch, moderate dinner. Binary, absolute rules seem to work best for my personality type... but give me some freedom and I'm bound to abuse it.
My newest resolution: stop reading about nutrition. It makes my head spin! Apparently all is bad for you.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri May 16, 2014 2:50 pm

SUCCESS. S-day tomorrow!

samosaurus · Post by **samosaurus** » Fri May 16, 2014 4:16 pm

Yes, be careful about going down the nutrition rabbit hole - next thing you know, you're eating gluten free paleo vegan high-fat keto raw food and it all becomes ridiculous! Moderate portions of food you like and makes you feel best is probably best, I liked the point you made earlier about quality of life vs quantity. And there's some people who live to be 100 who smoke and drink and eat only meat and potatoes - so while I'd say diet has a lot to do with longevity, genetics probably have the ultimate say. As long as you're making reasonable food choices I don't think you can go wrong!

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Sat May 17, 2014 12:45 am

Good job, Imogen!

Samosaurus, I couldn't help but LOL at that description. I've almost been down that road, but I'm trying to be more moderate.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun May 18, 2014 9:36 am

samosaurus (LOVE your screen name!), I'm going to use that phrase every time somebody asks me what I do to lose weight. "Oh, not much, just trying to eat less and better; you know, gluten free paleo vegan high-fat keto raw food". Because when I say I eat three meals a day, one plate each, no snacks, no sweets, no seconds, except for weekends and special days... nobody believes me.
Yesterday was okay, no binges. After a few days of vanilla and normal, moderate, completely non diet-y meals I weigh 51.9/114. I snacked a fair bit, had seconds, liberally sampled food I was cooking, and so on. I ate an entire bag of Lindor white pralines right after breakfast, and felt so sick I vowed to never touch any chocolate again. As far as pleasure is concerned, it wasn't a very enjoyable S-day. I really do feel better physically and mentally, and enjoy myself way more when I eat my typical N-day breakfast sans sweets, and have some homemade cake, ice cream or other dairy-based dessert after lunch and/or dinner. I'll see how that goes today...

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun May 18, 2014 5:50 pm

Too much cake after dinner. But I'm not going to worry about it - N-day compliance is so much more important.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Sun May 18, 2014 8:16 pm

Wow, great attitude Imogen!

samosaurus · Post by **samosaurus** » Mon May 19, 2014 1:45 am

I agree, great perspective to keep on it!

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Mon May 19, 2014 10:29 am

Yay Imogen!

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Mon May 19, 2014 12:00 pm

Great job.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon May 19, 2014 5:38 pm

Thanks for the ecouragement! I'm going to continue No S vanilla style... next weeks are going to be crazy busy, and I don't want to use up my valuable mental resources to fret over meals.
SUCCESS today.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue May 20, 2014 3:19 pm

FAILURE. A cookie with lunch, and some pretzels plus ice cream afterwards. I managed to keep the rest of the day green, though, and didn't binge as I usually do.
Every time I have a little bit of something sweet (either because I genuinely crave it, or because some opportunity to indulge presents itself) and not go bananas afterwards, my mod-head starts rearing its ugly head, begging me for attention. "You've lost all the weight you needed and wanted to lost, now when you're slim, you can eat the damn cake if you want it. You didn't binge the last time you had some, right? Besides, even if you do have something sweet occasionally, over the course of a week you consume the same or even smaller amount than on your typical weekend, so it's basically an even situation" *sigh* It's ENORMOUSLY distracting and draining, because a little of something sweet on a Tuesday leads to a lot of the same on a Friday. Sugar begets sugar. I inevitably succumb to emotional overeating and throw in the towel. When times are good, I can have both my cake and my peace of mind, but when boredom/anger/anxiety strikes, I start rummaging the cupboards. Vanilla No S is therefore an excellent barrier between myself and mindless overeating. Sometimes I keep wishing I could have this or that on a weekday, but in reality, most of the treats rarely live up to my expectations (like the ice cream today). I just hope my S-days will eventually get less wild and less snacky.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Tue May 20, 2014 7:42 pm

Can't remember if we've already discussed this Imogen.
Have you considered committing to something (vanilla or whatever you want) for 12 weeks without tinkering? That kind of fences around the laws of mods, and might ease your mod-head.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue May 20, 2014 8:01 pm

Yes, we have. I'm trying to continue it vanilla-style till July. Not 12 weeks, but let's make it 8, and we'll see how that goes.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Wed May 21, 2014 5:48 am

Imogen, Wow, I could have written your post about sugar! There are times when I can be really sane with sweets, but if I am extra tired, stressed, have a rough day with the kids, etc... I end up bingeing.

While I am not quite ready to commit to Vanilla yet, I am seriously considering it. I love your idea of trying it for 8 weeks.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:25 pm

FAILURE. A handful of pretzels between lunch and dinner. Carby breakfast is never a good idea... I have some special, homemade food planned for the weekend - Eton mess, crepes with vanilla cream cheese and strawberries, onion quiche, and Swedish cinnamon buns. Only two days left!

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:08 am

Imogen, you love your pretzels don't you?

I think they're your most common FAIL!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu May 22, 2014 6:02 am

Haha! No, actually, I don't like the taste that much - but the crunch factor is addictive. Every time I get stressed I crave salty, crunchy foods, and since all employees have access to free snacks - well, go figure.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu May 22, 2014 6:30 pm

SUCCESS.
My boss must have sensed something, because he has announced another pay raise for me (less than a year after the first one!), plus a substantial bonus this month. Yay! I didn't even mean to leave my current job, that offer from London was... well, I never really considered it in a serious way. I have no reasons to leave, neither professional, nor personal, not even financial. I'm staying!

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Thu May 22, 2014 9:59 pm

Wow, that's great. How nice that your qualities are appreciated.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Thu May 22, 2014 11:10 pm

Yay for an unexpected raise and bonus!

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:16 am

Hooray for the raise, and the bonus!

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Fri May 23, 2014 11:09 am

Yay! Well done to decide, brilliant on your bonus and pay rise, and good to have this figured out. If I would love my job I wouldn't leave either!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri May 23, 2014 6:36 pm

FAILURE. Oops. The day started fine, then things went downhill: first my boss brought us some cake (I only took one forkful, just to be polite), then my brother popped in with his family, and we had an early Mother's Day - with obligatory cupcakes. I gave in and had two. Marking it and moving on. Red days WILL happen - the key is to have more greens than reds in the long run!
I'm quite happy with my vanilla experiment - thanks, auto, for suggesting it. As much as I tend to fight the constraints of vanilla No S now when I'm in maintenance phase, I try to keep in mind that it isn't a diet supposed to bring my weight down to some artificial, arbitrary level, but a healthy habit that could eliminate my life-long struggle with food issues. The clear, strict, binary rules are like a wall that shields me from emotional overeating. I have no doubts that I will always be tempted to numb my feelings with food, and No S is a fantastic way to either eliminate or reduce that habit. And I'm getting less worried about S-days, can you believe it? The longer I avoid sweets, the less I crave them. Sure, I'm going to have cake and some other form of dessert tomorrow and on Sunday, certainly way too much of it. The only difference now is the fact that I realize it's not a rational decision to satisfy a craving, but rather an urge stemming from the fear of deprivation. Anyhow, meals are so much more satisfying than desserts.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Sat May 24, 2014 8:01 pm

I think sometimes, life just happens, and it's definitely good to mark it and move on. It sounds like you're doing great with Vanilla No S!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon May 26, 2014 7:04 am

Oh dear. Another over-the-top weekend.
I've gained weight over the last two weeks - some of it due to overfilled plates, but some due to weekend overindulgence. But this time I'm not going to abandon the structure of vanilla No S, I really want to stick with it until July. I'll try to use various precommitment devices on weekends (like not buying large packages of my favourite foods, only taking as much cash as I need to buy one chosen treat etc.), add ONE serving of dessert after lunch and dinner, and watch my portions on N-days, making sure half of my plate consists of fruit and vegetables. The truth is harsh ad uncompromising: I can't eat multiple serving of sweets on weekends, especially in the form of snacks, or pile up food on my weekday plates without gaining weight.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Mon May 26, 2014 11:59 pm

Oh, you are in delicate spot, dear Imogen!! I am not sure exactly how to encourage you, because we never know what is right for another person. Please feel free to throw out whatever I say that doesn't feel right to you, but I REALLY hope you can find a way to stick to your commitment until July, while not gaining a lot of weight. I think your ideas to buy smaller treats for the weekend is really good.
Good luck! I feel your pain, but there is potential here for you to really find some peace---if you ride out the waves of fear and doubt.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue May 27, 2014 6:12 pm

Binge. Trying to understand what's going on. I don't have any big psychological needs/problems right now - or so it seems... Most probable culprits: the fear hiding at the darkest corner of my mind (I rejected a job offer from goddamn LONDON, I must be out of my mind, and I'm going to regret it in a few years), and perhaps feeling like a failure for gaining weight on vanilla No S.
What a bummer.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Wed May 28, 2014 9:11 am

I doubt you'll regret it Imogen. Your job sounds great, your team lovely, your life settled where you are. I love London but it's a big risk to leave such a good situation as you have and I probably would have decided against it as well. If you really really want it: I once rejected and offer and went back to them the week after to see if it's still on the table and it was so sometimes it works out.

As for your binge: maybe there's all these deep, dark reasons but to me it sounds more like a habit you have. I was a big binger before NoS and being really strict with myself got over it. Maybe review Reinhard's podcast on strictness?

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Thu May 29, 2014 12:17 am

I really hope you find a way to make Vanilla No S work for you. I think limiting your sweets on weekends, and buying a smaller amount of sweets is good. Also, I'm sure watching your plates on N days will help.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:09 am

Ups and downs, ups and downs all the time. I've abandoned vanilla No S, and moved on to "three desserts per week". My jeans are getting a little looser, but most importantly, I feel a lot happier and calmer.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:24 am

Whatever works!

I'm glad you're happier now. I have thought about doing Vanilla, and part of me wants to, but for now, I'm focusing on no snacking, and not eating after dinner. I feel a little calmer about my eating, so I think I'm on the right track.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:37 pm

Things have been good here, and new flat keeps me busy. Nothing has yet been done there, so it's basically just floor and walls, but I'm hapy nonetheless.
I've been allowing myself sweets on my plates, and not beating myself up for sharing pretzels with my colleagues on especially stressful days. No snacking and no seconds are still my default. Also, I gave up measuring my portions, something I've been doing on and off for, gosh, a year? Today I ate a plate LOADED with crepes, five of them, actually, instead of the usual two. No vertical stacking was needed, all fit nicely. The sky won't fall. I feel like I want to shake off the diet mindset for good, and let go of expectations. Three tasty, moderate meals (and occasionally big ones!) that sometimes include a piece of cake or something similar - doesn't it sound great?
I have given vanilla so many chances I'm tired of it.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:11 am

It sounds like you should just move on from vanilla, then. I think the three meals is a great foundation, and no snacks and seconds are also very important. As long as you eat mostly healthy and are at a reasonable weight, you should be fine.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:19 pm

I'm so fed up with myself. Apparently, I have acquired a nasty binge habit in the last 6+ months. Doesn't matter, vanilla or not... I usually binge twice a week. Not good. Not good at all.

B: egg salad, 1/2 multigrain roll, 1/2 huge tomato, 1/2 banana
small cafe au lait with sugar
L: handful of pretzels, 1/2 camembert, 1/2 multigrain roll, 1/2 red pepper, 1/2 apple
D: 2 small cabbage rolls in tomato sauce, slice of graham bread, another slice with cream cheese and forest fruit jam

SUCCESS

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:04 am

B: 3 frankfurters (!), 1 1/2 slice graham bread, 1/2 huge tomato, handful of strawberries
L: 1/2 camembert, 1 slice graham bread, 1/2 red pepper, handful of strawberries
D: rice pudding with strawberry mousse
SUCCESS

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:16 am

B: 1/2 banana, cocoa, kaiser roll with cream cheese and chives
L: curd cheese sweet bread, almonds, handful of pretzels
D: slice of turkey meatloaf, buckwheat, tomato salad

SUCCESS.

Can you guess that I'm giving vanilla yet another shot? It works for so many people, I keep wishing it would work for me too.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:52 am

Drilling myself in: "That's not a diet. Eat enough. Don't skimp". Eating normal, full meals makes it all a lot more doable.

B: 1/2 cup porridge, strawberries, smoked salmon/lettuce sandwich
L: buckwheat with feta and spinach, 1/2 banana, handful of pretzels
D: slice of turkey meatloaf, 2 small potatoes, green salad

>:jess:< · Post by **>:jess:<** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:58 am

Hi Imogen! I'm new to No S and I'm having the exact same issue. I'm so used to "portion control" or eating small meals that I don't eat enough, get super hungry, and do something foolish. We'll get the hang of it, with practice

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:55 am

I really hope you can get Vanilla to work for you.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:51 am

B: semolina pudding with strawberry mousse, slice of graham bread with avocado/feta
cafe au lait with sugar (big mug!)
L: 5 banana pancakes, handful of almonds, handful of pretzels (GRRR!)
D: 5 hash browns, kefir

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:02 am

What is semolina?

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:02 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semolina_pudding

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:39 am

That sounds good!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:20 pm

52.5/115

I snacked and had sweets on Friday - not a full-blown binge, so that's something. But still RED. Had a lightbulb moment just when I was about to go wild and get a pile of biscuits, because I'VE BLOWN IT ANYWAY WHO CARES, but caught myself in the right moment thinking: you're just going to reinforce the old habit. I managed to put down the box. I hope the lesson will stick!
Today I've been permasnacking all day. No sweets, though. I'm feeling yucky. Tomorrow I'm going to get a nice and big (remember, no skimping!) dessert after dinner, and possibly have a sweet snack somewhere... but the thought of purposeful snacking makes my skin crawl. It just feels so wrong.

worth it · Post by **worth it** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:28 am

Imogen,

Thank you for posting the thought about NOT reinforcing your old habit and stopping a binge. This is something that I have been working on and I each time I read about someone else do it, it somehow gives me support too! Who knows about how many times it will take to weaken the neurological pathways that our brains have made, but each time we do it is a step towards breaking that pathway.

Congrats to you for doing it- Speaking from experience, I know how hard it can be!

Enjoy your S days!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:13 am

B: 2 frankfurters, 2 small slices of bread, mixed vegetable salad with mayo, ketchup, bowl of strawberries
sweet snack: scoop of Ferrero Rocher ice cream (so good!)
D: tomato soup, roasted chicken leg, potatoes, cucumber salad, 5 small squares of strawberry cheesecake (!), 3 pralines, cup of grape jelly
S: 2 sandwiches with butter and homemade strawberry jam, milk, barley
handful of almonds

I'm so full. Quite predictably, that was a wild S-day.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:08 am

B: 2 frankfurters, ketchup, mixed vegetables salad with mayo, slice of bread, wild strawberries
L: barley, milk, almonds
D: cauliflower, potatoes, tomato soup
mug of hot cocoa with sugar

SUCCESS

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:17 am

I'm sure you'll have tamer S Days before long. That was great how you stopped yourself before you began bingeing.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:50 am

The only problem is, I binged later on Sunday... you can't fail on S-days, right? I think my brain interprets it as a license to binge. But then, perhaps my weekend binges are caused by blood sugar rollercoaster. Small portions of sweets do not seem to lead to compulsive snacking later on, but big ones - ouch. My next S-day will be on Thursday (Corpus Christi), and I'm going to experiment a little with eating small portions of sweets after my meals, and observing how it affects my hunger levels. Or perhaps I just need to institute a rule about not having seconds of dessert - one piece of cake or one scoop of ice cream, and that's it, no multiple servings.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:08 am

B: 2 open-faced sandwiches with sprats in tomato sauce, tomato, bowl of strawberries
L: cauliflower/potato salad, strawberries
big cafe au lait
D: 5 strawberry pancakes, handful of broad beans

SUCCESS

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:47 pm

You may be on to something, with small vs. big portions of sweets. I'm sure eating bigger portions of sweets does have a greater effect on blood sugar. It would be an interesting experiment.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:56 am

B: strawberries, 2 open-faced sandwiches with sprats, 1/2 tomato
L: 3 strawberry pancakes, almonds
D (restaurant): spaghetti with shrimp and clams

FAIL. I bought some biscuits for tomorrow (my S-day), and failed miserably in the evening, eating 3/4 of the box. Plus savoury snack afterwards, to balance my crazy blood sugar. Two things that always end up badly: buying large quantities of sweets in advance, and eating desserts on empty stomach.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:03 am

Ooh, spaghetti with shrimp and clams sounds delicious!

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:51 pm

Yummy menu Imogen! How are you doing?

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:23 pm

I'm doing quite bad at the moment

But not giving up on NoS! Another wild S-day under my belt, and I failed/binged yesterday.
My personal weekend rules:
- for gods' sake, DON'T EAT ANY SUGAR ON EMPTY STOMACH
- always have protein- and fiber-packed breakfast
- don't bring any S-es home before the actual S-day
- take only as much CASH as you need to buy the one chosen thing
- don't buy sweet stuff that comes in multiple servings (exception: biscuits sold per piece)
- put aside two small pieces of homemade cake, and eat them after supper, when the rest is already gone, DON'T TOUCH IT when there's still a lot of it at home

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:11 am

Boy, I can relate to all of those rules! Yes, don't give up!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:47 pm

B: kefir/strawberry/raspberry smoothie, scrambled eggs, green beans, slice of bread/butter
L: cherries, pickle, ww pasta/cherries/quark, small cafe au lait
D: quark dumplings with butter and sugar, 3 cherries, T of pb

SUCCESS

I've made a deal with myself: 21 days of green days (N-days + sane S-days), and I'll raid The Body Shop.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:50 am

That sounds like a good plan.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:06 pm

S-DAY

52.6/115

B: 1/2 tomato, 1/2 pumpkin seed roll, sausage (not happy about so much processed meat I've been eating lately, but with my crazy schedule in the last couple of days I just grab whatever is in the fridge...), 2 slices of yeast bundt cake with raisins, sweet cherries
L (on the road): sausage, 1/2 tomato, 1/2 pumpkin seed roll, cappuccino, insanely good apple pie
D: potatoes with caramelized onion, kefir, sweet cherries, strawberries, another slice of cake

All in all, that was a pretty tame S-day. We went to see an arboretum nearby, and had a looong and pleasant walk there, which was awesome! I felt really, really good, mentally and physically - energized and refreshed. This reminded me about how much I love microtrips. For a homebody like me (well, I seem to love either very short or very long trips), that's the best of two worlds: sightseeing, and sleeping in my own bed at night. Also, being pleasantly occupied on weekends helps me eat moderately.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:07 pm

I can totally relate! I know I tend to eat better, when I'm busy doing something fun, because I'm distracted.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:06 pm

Not doing well at the moment, but not giving up either. A string of red days. I need to be constantly reminding myself that regular exercise feels great, and so does no snacking. I feel lighter, more energetic, my productivity levels go through the roof when my body is not occupied with digesting and processing food. My clothes no longer feel uncomfortably tight. I wholeheartedly agree with Kevin from everydaysystems.com: it's snacking that will kill you. I'll make it a rule to avoid snacking also on weekends. Sweets and seconds after Saturday and Sunday meals (as much as I want, because portion control in the sweet department always ends up in resentment and binges) shouldn't make so much damage in the long run. I'm also toying with the idea of downsizing my work lunches, so that I feel legitimately hungry before dinner, but we'll see how that goes. It might backfire, because weekday skimping always makes me more prone to binges and snacking. I need to eat enough to forget about food for the next 4-5 hours.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:45 pm

Two meals followed by LOTS of sweet stuff, but no snacking in between. 2 hours of brisk walking. Hunger is the best sauce. Yay!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:50 am

Moderate breakfast, small lunch, moderate dinner yesterday. Some milk and cafe au lait between meals. 14 minutes of bodyweight exercises in the morning, 40 min brisk walk in the park. SUCCESS.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:05 am

Great job!