Back with her tail between her legs...

[Beth]

So I am back again. Why did I not jump back into this? Guess I feel like it seems to good to be true, or at least too good to actually work for me (shrug)? I half-heartedly attempted some other ways of eating out there- weight watchers, naturally slim, etc did I lose weight- nope. Did I lose my mind- almost! I got so angry with myself for not having the willpower to commit to a diet- I wondered what the heck was wrong with me. The other day, I wrote myself a little note at my desk- I hate having to THINK about it (that was what the note said exactly). So then I started thinking of my "dream weight loss plan"- It would have to be easy (no complicated food combining/calorie counting/blah blah blah). It would have to be flexible (sometimes I could bring a lunch to work, but sometimes I could go out to eat with coworkers whether restaurant or fast food, without having to first "figure out" where I was "allowed to go"). It would have to be something where I could occasionally have goodies (ie sweets). It would have to be a plan where I would not be hungry and witchy at work b/c I was hungry. It would have to be a plan I could maintain as a lifestyle. And finally, it would have to WORK, even if it just meant 1/2 to 1 pound of loss a week or even less, just as long as it would work over the long haul. And oh yeah, I don't want to be working out an hour every day either.
I have to say that No-S is the closest I have seen to this.
I do have some questions though-
1. Must I always eat high quality during the week?
2. What if I find myself very hungry between meals- could I have an apple or something to get me to my next meal?
3. What about lattes? I love an occasional latte during the week- should I just keep it until the weekend? Or have with a meal? What about between meals?
Well, I have to go see my doctor, so I will be back later.
Thanks!

[SilentButDeftly]

I have to say that No-S is the closest I have seen to this.
I do have some questions though-
1. Must I always eat high quality during the week?
2. What if I find myself very hungry between meals- could I have an apple or something to get me to my next meal?
3. What about lattes? I love an occasional latte during the week- should I just keep it until the weekend? Or have with a meal? What about between meals?
Well, I have to go see my doctor, so I will be back later.
Thanks!

1. If by "high quality", you mean "super-healthy", the answer is no! It will certainly help you out if you're not only eating ultra-fatty foods at every meal, but I still eat the usual stuff that I ate before no-S (pizza, pasta, casseroles, subs, etc.) I just eat less of them.
2. Technically, no -- you can't. That's the whole "no snacks" rule. It's a very tough habit to break but it's worth it if you can. Reinhard says it best on the main No-S page:

What about healthy snacks?
Eat healthy meals. If you know you have just three, you'll make them count. I'm perfectly aware that an orange between meals is not going kill you, that, taken in itself, it's perfectly healthy. But the idea is to have the orange instead of, not in addition to, and in justification of, some unhealthy part of your meal. The problem is primarily one of self-discipline, and if you start making all kinds of exceptions, you'll fail.

3. That's a good one, I'm not sure if I would count it as a "sweet" or a "snack" or what. I usually just have a cup of black coffee with (or instead of) breakfast in the morning so I'll wait for someone else to come along with a better answer.

Regardless, I think you'll really like No-S and it really does work. You won't "melt pounds away overnight" but you'll definitely get better eating habits and probably lose weight too!

[gratefuldeb67]

Hi Beth! Good to see you back!
My answers are:

1. No, but why eat low quality? LOL...
2. Yes, that's virtual plating... Just don't go having three in between fruits all day between all meals, and consider it part of one of them..
3. Lattes with one or two spoons of sugar would be okay..
Mocha lattes with two or three pumps of chocolate hazelnut syrup, and chocolate shavings on top would be an S for the weekends...

NoS is your answer... You really know that already!

Just try it out for a good period of time... Give yourself at least a three month commitment to trying this wholeheartedly... Incase it helps to know,,,, *I* didn't eat perfectly all the time, and still don't, but by sticking with this, even only to, say 75% perfectly, and exercising fairly regularly, I have gone down from a 41" waist to a 36.5".... I think I'm down, roughly, 25 lbs from when I started, 15 months ago... I have never ever had any significant gain back, other than the 2 lb monthly cycle fluctuation I always have during pms...

Hugs to the kids, take that tail out of your legs, and stop thinking so much!!!
NoS is about simplicity and moderation... it is worth the effort and will work for you!

Good luck on your new attempt!
Peace and Love,
Deb

[carolejo]

Hi Beth,

My take on it (there are about as many answers to your questions as there are people on this board!)

1. It's fine to eat junk food for one of your meals now and then. If what you really want is a whopper burger, then fine. Have the whopper burger. Just put it on a PLATE with the fries (you can even do this mentally after you've done it physically at least once! It's important that you get a real sense of how big it is though), don't get the coke (liquid sugar) and don't supersize. 'Supersize' in this case also includes the whole "Bacon Triple cheese mega whopper" thing. - that's a supersize, it's an S. Save it for Saturday.

2. I bend the rules on this one, and allow myself up to 2 servings of fruit or raw veg inbetween meals if I feel I need it. It usually stops me from running off and eating a bar of chocolate, helps me to balance my blood sugar level properly and stops me from turning into some evil, bad-tempered hungry beastie. At the start, I ate at least one of the fruits most days. Now I hardly ever eat the fruits in addition to the ones I eat at mealtimes. The point is though, if I go and get an apple at 3pm, I don't consider that a failure. I know it's not 100% within the rules, but you're allowed to bend them - just set the limits and stay within them so that it's clear in your own mind what is "breaking the rules". It would be breaking the rules if I ate the fruit when I wasn't hungry and didn't really need to.

3. I'm 100% with Deb on this one. A standard latte with a couple of sugars in it if you like it that way isn't going to do much harm every now and then. Triple mocha mega lattes with additional syrup, sprinklings of chocolate and / or marshmellows... Sorry, that's DEFINATELY an S. Wait till the weekend and then REALLY enjoy it and make it count by having it just so. For me, I like my latte without additional syrup anyway. A latte on an N day is allowed, but the little caramel biscuit that usually comes with it from my favourite cafe here is not! I know that might well be illogical in terms of the calorie content of both items, but that's where my distinction lies and that's the boundary.

Take the framework of NoS, decide where your personal boundaries are, then stick to them. Don't overthink it and don't make it too complicated. Above all, enjoy having control over it and not having to worry about it anymore!

Welcome back!
C.

[Jammin' Jan]

I'm a little stricter about those lattes than Deb or Carolejo, which mostly means that you will have to tweak the plan to suit your own needs. I figure the way to break the sugar habit is to not consume sugar on no-s days. I save my lattes for s-days and then I really enjoy them.

Continuing the tweaking here...

The higher the quality of your food, the healthier and more satisfied you will be. On the other hand, a diet of "health food" will probably be very unsatisfying over the long run if you're not already into that sort of thing. It's best to do all things in moderation. Do the best you can.

Try to eat sufficiently at mealtimes and avoid snacking. Make the fruit a part of your meal. However, if you are absolutely dying and your blood sugar has dropped through the floor, have a little fruit or 100% fruit juice to tide you over to the next meal. But think carefully before you do this. If you are firm with yourself in the beginning, it's hard, but it gets easier and easier and pretty soon the no-snacking habit is formed.

Above all, be patient with yourself, as well as persistent and enthusiastic. If you "mess up" at one meal, just pick up and continue with the space between that meal and the next. One moment of no willpower won't trash the plan for you.

Best advice anyone ever gave me is:

Begin. Continue.

Best wishes for success, and I'm glad you're back!

Jan

[gratefuldeb67]

From the NoS homepage,
Reinhard writes:

What do you mean by "sweets"?
I mean something whose principal source of calories is sugar. Go ahead and put sugar in your coffee or oatmeal; you have my blessing. Of course fruits are fine.

There you go Beth.. From the horses mouth...
Love,
Deb

[Shameless Hussey]

As a clarification, in my humble opinion:

I believe that Reinhard says on the No S homepage that fruits are not sweets, but should also not be considered "snacks".

I believe in three meals a day. No snacks means no snacks. Very very difficult at first. Much easier later. We are strong. We can do difficult things.

[carolejo]

Yup. You are quite right, Shameless. I'm aware that I bend the rules sometimes, especially about having fruits in between meals. For me, it's just a fail-safe though. It's better than going on a wild eating spree and consuming anything and everything that isn't nailed down In that respect, I agree with Jan's take on it too.

As I said before, eating the fruit just because I 'allowed' myself to, is NOT acceptable. It has to be a deal-breaker. An "either I go and get an apple / orange / raw carrot, or I'm really going to blow it totally / be totally horrible to live with" thing.

C.

[Shameless Hussey]

O, CaroleJo! And O, everyone else!

I often write emphatically, as I am quite the emotional gal! I often forget to post my disclaimer:

I always and only speak from my own experience.
Everyone has their own experience, and their own needs.
We all must find what works for each of us, individually.

Personally, being strict works for me. Your Millage May Vary

[Dietlife]

Welcome back, Beth. I look forward to getting to know you. Is that your babe in the picture?

I am here because I am looking for a more permanent solution too. I hope you stay.

Lisa

[reinhard]

Beth,

Welcome back, and get your tail out from between your legs. It takes most people several tries to succeed at something this big -- very few get it right the firsts time around.

And as you can see from the responses above, getting it right means something slightly different for different people. There definitely is a range of nos inspired behaviors that has lost people weight. You'll have to do a little experimenting to see what works for you, where your "borders" lie.

I would say:

1) there's nothing in the rules that says you have to eat "quality." Silent is right in that you can with a perfectly clear conscience eat pizza or a burger or whatever, but Deb is also right in asking "why not?" I think you'll find having limited opportunities to eat will make you *want* to eat healthier -- not always, but often enough. It might take a little attention, but not hard rules.

2) I would try 3 meals with nothing in between. There are people here who've successfully added a fourth mini meal, but I'd recommend giving 3 a try first. In any case, settle on something fixed. Replacing the habit of snacking with the habit of "mealing" is the single most important part of the nosdiet. And if you start noshing on fruit all day you're definitely going to have trouble maintaining the quality you ask about in question #1 at meals -- you'll feel you've already eaten plenty of healthy food so why blow a meal on it as well.

That being said, if you're going to slip up, fruit is about as good as it gets. Failing gracefully, stopping with an apple instead of a bag of cookies, is also very important (and hard).

The virtual plating deb mentions is kind of an advanced maneuver. I would recommend saving it for weird situations like buffets and parties.

3) If it's not loaded with sugar, it's technically ok. I personally drink my coffee black, so this isn't an issue for me. If you drink a latte a day with a teaspoon or two of sugar I wouldn't worry about it. If you drink 4 of these a day with several teaspoons of sugar, you might want to consider making it an issue.

Best of luck, wherever you decide to draw your borders, and don't be ashamed to restart another time or two or ten if that's what it takes.

Reinhard

[cvmom]

Hi Beth.

Wecome Back (I am singing the theme to Welcome Back Kotter to you)

I have missed the photo of those adorable babies.

Do what ever it takes to make this work for you. You know yourself. You know when you are "cheating". I personally kept a journal for the first month or two, just so I was accountable to myself. (A little bit of old Weight Watcher mentality.) This helped me see what I was eating. Just be strict until your habits are firmly rooted.

Dru

[Beth]

Thanks for your welcome backs!
Yes, those are my sweet twins in my sig pic! I will have to update that soon though b/c they will be 2 already in April!
Thanks for the answers to my questions. I am thinking that most quality food seems to keep one's tummy satisfied longer between meals, so I will strive for some food quality in most of my meals, but not make a huge issue of it, either. Also, I hid my scale- I am tired of playing the scale lottery and letting a number dictate how the rest of my day goes. I will just take this WOE day by day. As to the lattes, I usually do not put a lot of milk in them- I take a small amount of milk and froth it up (and it REALLY froths up!) and put that in my coffee.
Oh and at my request, hubby gave me an early bday gift- he told me to go ahead and sign up for a 6 week t-tapp clinic. I am very excited about it! Last Saturday we had our first class, I was sore Sunday but it was actually a good feeling!