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Needing Support...increased 5lbs in two weeks!

 
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levictoria



Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 64
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Needing Support...increased 5lbs in two weeks! Reply with quote

Alright, everyone. So, I'm new, and apparently this way of eating hasn't "clicked" with me yet or something. I've been doing Vanilla No S for two weeks, though when I got on the scale today, I saw that I am UP 5 pounds from where I started! And, my pants are getting tighter.

Although I've been following the diet "perfectly", I've started drinking milk and fruit juice more than I did before, and I think I'm over compensating my meal sizes. I've really been trying not to worry about these things, as I just wanted to get the basic pattern of No S down, but 5 pounds REALLY has me concerned!

As I've mentioned before, I used to count calories/points frequently. I'm trying to get out of the obsessive behavior that it forced me into, thus leading to my bad relationship I have with food.

Has anyone else been here? Dealing with forcing yourself to NOT count, and therefore having a warped perception of how much you are eating?
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Victoria
Starting Weight 204.6
Starting Date Aug 24, 2017
Current 200.4
Total: -4.2
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kccc



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 3943

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Questions to start...

- Were you "coming off" a strict diet of some kind? There's often a physical rebound from that.
- Have you REALLY been absolutely compliant? No little cheats around the edges?
- Have your plates been noticeably excessive? Do you feel stuffed after eating? Have you been indulging in ALL the previously-forbidden favorites, all at once?

Thoughts

- My post-S-day weight is always high, in part b/c of salt as well as the actual food. That usually drops off fast, though. Give it a day or so and re-weigh.
- You've already identified two possible causes - overcompensating on meal sizes and too much milk/juice. Examine these more closely. (Juice is usually limited by most people. Better as fruit-on-the-plate.)
- Consider exercise.
- Read your other post - there were some suggestions there that might help you. Take ONE that you think will help, and keep going.

Good luck!
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levictoria



Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 64
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi KCCC, thanks for replying, and thanks for your words of wisdom. Smile

To answer your questions of self reflection, I wasn't coming off of any overly restrictive diet. I was doing WW Simply Filling, but I wouldn't consider it restrictive. I have indeed followed the plan as written, technically.

What I think my biggest problem is, is the meal sizes. Thanks for reminding me of my other post. What I've decided to do for this week, is cut all of my meals down to 2 cupped hands sized (unless it's a clear broth soup!). I really want to lose my calorie/point counting mentality, the more I think about it, and this may be a great way to do so.

You are totally right that this is a bad day to weigh myself. I'm thinking I'm going to switch my weigh in Days to Wednesday to be more "fair." I know Reinhart doesn't really recommend using the scale, but for me, it's those cold, hard numbers that I have to see.

Thanks again!
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Victoria
Starting Weight 204.6
Starting Date Aug 24, 2017
Current 200.4
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clarinetgal



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1648
Location: Western Washington State

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know in Michael Pollan's books, he talks about eating until you're 70-80% full. I interpret that as feeling just full enough, without feeling overly full or stuffed. That rule works pretty well for me.
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wosnes



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4168
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you're experiencing isn't unusual for someone starting No-S.

My advice is contrary to what Reinhard suggests. I'm against the milk and/or juice between meals when you're hungry. I understand the rationale behind it; I just don't agree with it. Here's something I wrote last year:

Quote:
I have to admit that this is something I've had a problem with since reading about No-S. I don't think it's a good idea. A number of the people who commented on Michael Pollan's request for their food rules said "don't drink your calories".

12 ounces orange juice -- 150 calories (26.8 grams carbs/8 ounces)
12 ounces Coke Classic -- 155 calories (27 grams carbs/8 ounces)
12 ounces whole milk -- 225 calories
12 ounces unsweetened apple juice -- 174 calories
12 ounces grape juice -- 255 calories
12 ounces tomato juice -- 60 calories
12 ounces V8 juice -- 75 calories

I threw the Coke Classic in there for comparison. I chose 12 ounce portions (even though 8 ounces is considered a serving) because it's difficult to find 8-ounce glasses anymore and I think most people probably drink from a glass that holds 12-16 ounces and maybe as many as 20 ounces.

These could potentially be significant sources of calories -- especially if you're not extremely active.

While I agree with Reinhard that drinking between meals differs from eating, I think many of us need to be aware of the calories in these beverages. They could very easily sabotage your weight loss.


Depending on how much you're drinking between meals and how much extra food you're putting on your plate, it wouldn't be difficult to have the equivalent of another meal or two calorie-wise.
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"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
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Sienna



Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 262

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Depending on how much you're drinking between meals and how much extra food you're putting on your plate, it wouldn't be difficult to have the equivalent of another meal or two calorie-wise.


I know that this is something that I've struggled with. Juice especially is problematic for me - it's not hard for me to drink an entire bottle of juice in an afternoon. That's on the order of 1000 calories! And what's worse, is it doesn't feel like eating, so they are really pretty empty calories.

Now I try to treat juice as an S with a glass ceiling of 2. Go figure that for me personally, "problem drinking" has nothing to do with alcohol!

What I've picked up instead is tea/iced tea (unsweetened - and here is a small plug for Teavana http://www.teavana.com/ which has a fantastic selection!) and water with a splash of lemon juice. It's "different" than plain water, but still healthy like water - and I'll drink more of it.
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Kathi



Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Between meals, I drink plain water, tea with milk, and water with a splash of juice. The last two drinks give you the feel of milk or juice but with far fewer calories.

If I'm really hungry, I'll have a glass of tomato juice, which is very filling but with fewer calories than fruit juice.
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jellybeans01



Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 232
Location: San Antonio

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad that you are getting the basics down, but maybe it is time for a modification. Drinking lots of milk and juices as you know has lots of calories. Maybe limiting those, plus using portion control. Or perhaps just giving yourself one s day as I do, that really helps.
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Nicest of the Damned



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 719

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One mod I'm considering, I call the Half Plate Mod. If you're having a separate vegetable dish (as opposed to something like a stir-fry or pasta, where the vegetable, meat, and/or starch are mixed together), the vegetables should take up half of your plate. Corn and potatoes are starches, not vegetables, for the purpose of this mod. Sweet potatoes, though, are vegetables.

One that I basically do but don't have a good name for is "only non-caloric beverages except at meals". Non-caloric beverages include water, coffee (without milk or sugar), tea (likewise, hot or iced), and diet soda (unless you're avoiding artificial sweeteners). If anyone's got a catchier name for this, I'd like to hear it.

I'd say a beverage has to have at least 10 calories in a standard serving to be caloric. I say this because I always thought black coffee and plain tea had 0 calories, but a little Googling told me some sites say they actually might have 2 per cup. There's no counting here- either a beverage is caloric and allowed only at meals, or it isn't and is allowed any time.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9089
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone told me there is no caveat about beverages in the book, so I don't know why I thought this, but I always assumed that drinking anything caloric between meals was only if you were actually hungry, not just because you wanted something. It was to tide you over and yet not reinforce the habit of chewing, since chewing carrots can become chewing potato chips so easily. If you're thirst, drink water. If you're hungry, have one glass of milk or juice. Then shift your attention to something else that is productive or pleasurable, or both.

I guess I would have to second examining how you feel at the end of your meal, and add asking how you feel at the beginning. If you aren't pretty hungry by your next meal, you're probably eating too much. I know on the weekend, if I have a huge piece of pizza for lunch, which I sometimes do, I sometimes don't even have dinner because I never get hungry again by the time I'm supposed to go to bed. Nobody said I wasn't going to get hungry. In fact, one of the beauties of No S is that hunger becomes more tolerable and even pleasant.

If none of these is the issue, I apologize, because I know how hard it can be to listen so someone going on about things that can't be the problem.

Discouraging though it may be, I'd say trying to stick to the structure is going to stand you in good stead even if you find out that you need to curtail your portions or even food choices. And the doctor might be a good idea, too.
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Age 64
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Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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levictoria



Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 64
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually have followed the "don't drink your calories" rule for many years. It was just upon reading this book, that states its okay to drink milk and juice between meals that I started doing it again.

It looks like I may have just needed to get this over indulgence out of my system. Originally, I was going through a 1/2 a gallon of milk in two days, but just yesterday, I realized that it took me six days to finish the last 1/2 gallon. This was both a mental decision, and a simple unconscious development. I've been figuring out I need to cut back, and I've been starting to focus on drinking more tea and water, as I used to before. The only time I can say that I have a glass or two of milk/juice every day now is around 3PM. My body gets really, really hungry, every day around that time, and tea and water just don't cut it. The other time I find myself drinking it, is juice at breakfast, and also a glass at night. My hubby and I used to drink during the week, but we've decided to primarily limit our drinking to the weekends, so right now, I'm replacing our wine with juice...in our wine glasses. lol.

It appears that I may be starting to "get it." I just got on the scale and finally saw the scale starting to go in the opposite direction.
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Starting Weight 204.6
Starting Date Aug 24, 2017
Current 200.4
Total: -4.2
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wosnes



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4168
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It takes me at least two weeks to finish a half-gallon of milk, but I don't normally drink milk. It's an ingredient. This is because I can't stand drinking milk.

I like juice, but almost never drink it. It's also an ingredient.
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"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
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Aleria



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 208
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest checking out Reinhard's podcasts - especially Episode 24: Put the Scale in Perspective
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TPIMH



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victoria- Congrats on starting to see the benefits of what you are doing! Everyday is one step closer to being the healthy people we want to be!!!
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FarmerHal



Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 1013

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome, Victoria,
(I’m not new to NoS, but newly back again)

Milk/juice is just as bad as a snack IMO. It still has calories.

The panic about time between meals will settle, and you will eventually decrease portion size, because in the end that is what it’s going to take.
Simply less food. For me, limiting carbs is important, too.

I use hot tea, peppermint is just perfect for my tastes, or black coffee when I’m feeing particularly hungry between meals. It helps the feeling pass.

I have also realized I won’t starve, and I remind myself it’s simply not time to eat.
HOpe this helps, you can do it Smile
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ironchef



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 1630
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding of the milk thing was for those rare situations where you were so hungry you were about to break down and snack anyway. I only ever really used it when doing night feeds for my babies, when I was so hungry I actually could not fall back to sleep after settling them. So, to reinforce the whole "I don't prepare and eat food between meals" I would have a caloric drink instead, knowing that on balance it was the same amount of energy, but it was building the non-snacking habit.

I never heard "drink unlimited caloric beverages" on here at all. That, as I understand it, is a big part of our problem with overeating in today's world - drinking calories.

Also, I never heard juice recommended at all. Reinhard talks about juicing one orange yourself and serving the resulting tiny amount of juice in a wine glass with your breakfast. Hardly an exhortation to drink juice between meals? Certainly a small (100ml) glass of milk was all I ever used as a back up over nights when my kids were little.

Anyway, I wouldn't discourage a newbie from using milk or milky coffee as a "tide over" tool, but I also wouldn't give the advice "drink whatever, it's vanilla".
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Zoid



Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 86
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP is from 2010.

I enjoy the discussion though and it could help someone else who is new.
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Imogen Morley



Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, not a newbie here, but that's exactly what I needed to read tonight.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9089
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Reinhard talked about a small glass of juice and having that be possibly sobering because you would see how many oranges it took. but there may be one on an orange alone, too. He also was discussing whether orange juice was a sweet. Not unless it leads to more and more. And it also seemed he was talking about people having juice with meals.

I'm glad you brought up the limitations, ironchef. I'm usually the balloon popper here. Crying or Very sad

Juice is fifth in line of the between-meal beverages. Yes, it is on the list on page 57; no mention of only one orange. If someone finds herself guzzling any of the caloric ones, off to N -day meals or S land for those, depending if they're sweet or not. That said, stevia decaf mochas were my crutch for years. NOT canonical, I realize now When I was finally honest about whether I was just giving in to jonesing or true hunger, I let them go and lost another five pounds over a few months after having maintained at a higher weight for a few years. but I didn't do it for the weight loss. Just the sober respect for moderation. But you might need the longer timeline. Don't get too drastic and end up resenting the gaps- for now. If you feel completely non-plussed hearing this, maybe you can give yourself a break for a bit.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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ironchef



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 1630
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
I'm glad you brought up the limitations, ironchef. I'm usually the balloon popper here. Crying or Very sad


Haha! I'm sometimes a balloon popper too! I guess we all have to walk the line between being positive and encouraging while not indulging in magical thinking.
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