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The trap of the stomach growl diet

 
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3-0-7 girl



Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 122
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: The trap of the stomach growl diet Reply with quote

Wanted to revive this topic for new people and myself and all of us.

How many of you have done the stomach hunger, growl, eat only when hungry,intuitive eating diet/programs/WOE and it didn't work out. Do you find yourself thinking you still want try it? Did you think it was easy, impossible, or unrealistic? Tell us your story and how NO S is better for you.

I will tell my story probably tomorrow nite unless I can get ot it on my cell phone tonight I have internet on that too. Cool
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Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God… (Dt. 11:26-28.)
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TexArk



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
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Location: Foothills of the Ozarks

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3-0-7,

I have been through the non diet, naturally thin, intuitive eating cycle many times. I can see the temptation and the pull to return. I will wait for your story before I share mine. It isn't exciting, but I repeated the cycle many times! I even tried to maintain a large weight loss with the eat when hungry, stop before full philosophy and gained bigtime.
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lbb (Liz)



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 675

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only have access on my phone but am interested in this subject. Was reading a geneen roth book and she's all about eating when hungry. I do prefer the NO s methodology for habit control but constantly revisit the "intuitive eating" lure.
Will post more another time but interested to hear others.
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Sinnie



Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, too, fell into this trap years ago. I really liked the theory behind it but it certainly DID NOT help me lose weight. It's so easy to get stressed and think you feel hungry - where do you draw the line? It's always blurred because for someone like me I can always feel hungry. Huge thumbs down for this plan! I'm not sure many people can teach themselves this - you are either a born instinctive eater, or you are not. I'm sure all of us are born that way, but for some it's gets disrupted along the path of life and if you use food for emotions, I believe you can never get it back.
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r.jean



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree with Sinnie! Eating only after my stomach growls is not for me. My daily meals are scheduled at times when I am naturally starting to feel hunger. If I wait until I feel hunger to react, I then have to prepare the meal and/or find the time to eat. By that time I may be over the top hungry and this leads to overeating for me.

I also agree that you are either an instinctive eater or you are not and most of us on this board probably are not. The structure of No S is a good reasonable way to help us govern our habits.
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lbb (Liz)



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen again to set eating times.
Question, though: when you overeat the night before, and you usually eat breakfast about 8 and are not hungry, do you just jump back on the wagon to normal eating times, or wait it out to feel hungry again?

Those lucky instinctive eaters. Not one of them myself. One of sisters (I have 5!), who I am closest to is totally instinctive and it's really hard hanging with her. She can feel like an ice cream cone at 11am and be done with it. I sometimes fall into the trap thinking I can eat like her when I'm with her, but it backfires. Smile

Another reason No-S rocks!
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r.jean



Joined: 24 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sometimes eat breakfast later on weekends but on weekdays I eat before leaving for work...regardless of what I ate the night before. I might not eat as much but I eat.
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TexArk



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some thoughts from another blogger discussing intuitive eating that I cannot say any better. I think Bright Angel has also quoted from this source.

“The theory behind this is that we lose touch of our built-in biological mechanisms that turn our hunger on and off through dieting and years of poor relationships/attitudes with food, but that this can be retaught if you’re willing to work at it.
It sounds so wonderful in theory. The notion that you can reach the point where you’re always eating whatever you want (after all, if you’re truly zeroed in on your body’s natural appetite, then indeed, that’s what this means) and still maintaining a fit and healthy body…..is almost breathtakingly seductive. And to hear it explained, it MAKES so much SENSE, doesn’t it?”


I fell for this siren song several times. Maybe there are some previously obese folks who can really retrain themselves to eat like a normal person and that is what we think we want. I would like to not have to think about food and always be mindful and careful about what I eat. However, my body/mind is just not going to cooperate with me on this. I have read all of Geneen Roth’s books (how nice to carry a chocolate bar in my purse); I have bought most of the other books and programs over the years and joined in discussion boards (I should have picked up that no one was losing any weight at all!). I was part of the original Weigh Down Workshop attending group meetings, listening to cassette tapes and working the workbook. I tried to use Intuitive Eating as a maintenance program after I lost weight and was weary of counting WW points. And I kept gaining and gaining as I tried the Hunger Scale and not restricting any foods and paying attention to my emotions, and on and on.

more quotes from the blogger:

“Here’s the problem (and you knew there was going to be a problem, didn’t you?). Actually, there are several problems.
Firstly, any notion of any accuracy to your body’s “natural” biological signals went out the door the minute society introduced one thing into the mix: processed foods. The playing field is no longer level. If somehow the only foods that were available to eat were “real” .....sure, then I can see how one could make the argument that connecting to the body’s “wisdom” for our nutritional needs could be plausible.
However, this is obviously is not the case. No, instead, these foods are competing against the kind of culinary bombs that tickle the senses almost frighteningly. Let’s be honest, who of us has not taken that first bite of a delicious brownie or some other over-the-top treat and found our head practically swimming in awe-struck delight? There is simply so much MORE to the eating experience than mere biology/nutrition, there’s just no way to allow what you choose to eat to be dictated ONLY by what you “feel” your body wants.”


And she gives more problems, but you get the idea. I think on NoS we have an opportunity to try out the stomach growl or intuitive diet on S Days. Most of us have a terrible time with this and do better on our N Days.
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lbb (Liz)



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GREAT reminder, TexArk. Thanks for that. "Carrying the chocolate bar in the purse!" haha. I loved that when I followed Roth's books! For some reason, though I could never just have a square.
There was SO much mental energy with intuitive eating. I carried a cooler (practically) around with me "just in case". COme on, I'm not a newborn needing her formula!
Loved this and agree No-S is the perfect structure for the lost intuitive eater!
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ziggy



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: The Deep Desire be able to eat Intuitively--A Dangerous oOne Reply with quote

I have struggled with weight and compulsive eating since I was about 10 year old--I am now 70. I've tried every kind of diet, all sorts of workshops, psychotherapy, meditation, Overeaters' Anonymous, Weight Watchers (on and off since 1967) and I even wrote a book about my experiences in OA and how I worked the 12 Steps. I no longer binge (haven't for maybe 15 years). But even though I've maintained a 30 pound weight loss I am still about 20 pounds over the top of my healthy weight range. I have continued to look for some plan, some set of tools that could help me go the rest of the way. And to use the word intuitive, this No S plan feels intuitively right.

If we are really honest with our selves we know we need some kind of external structure. That's why we keep trying diets--WWer's is a good example. But no structure (intuitive eating) and structure we either feel deprived on, makes us feel out of it in social situations, and is too cumbersome will soon be dropped.

And that's why this odd, even crazy sounding approach makes a lot of sense to me. I am giving it a serious try. When we get the impulse to try WWers again or intuitive eating my suggesting is that we have a cup of Green Tea, lie down, until the thought passes away. Smile
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Kathleen



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I called it the Hunger Satisfaction Diet, and I remember once my son saying that what I thought was a stomach growl was really my stomach groaning as it tried to digest all the food in it!
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Rachelocity



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When we get the impulse to try WWers again or intuitive eating my suggesting is that we have a cup of Green Tea, lie down, until the thought passes away.


^^^Quoted for truth! If I knew how to eat intuitively, I'd have eaten that way all along, right? Actually, my intuition predicts famines with amazing accuracy (there's a famine somewhere in the world at any given time, most likely) but it overlooks the fact that downtown Montreal is not a famine zone. And WW is just...Pointless for me. Pun definitely intended. There's much more room in my head for valuable information now that the din of incessant counting, counting, counting is gone.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel I lost DECADES to the attempt to implement IE. It was just as hard as trying to "diet," though I do credit it with helping me get over food prejudices. I think a few people who have been heavy have learned it, but No S is just easier and it fits what several slim cultures do. Millions do No S without a lot of effort (or knowing it), though their culture supports them. We have to be our own little cultures, but thank goodness our habits aren't swimming against the whole current.
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Joy2012



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, I've been on the IE bandwagon. As with all other plans I came away learning something and I take what I learned and try to use it to create my own boundaries and structure so I can discipline myself.

From IE I learned:

~Most (not all) people are overweight because they eat too much. Even on the Atkins diet I couldn't lose weight because I was eating too much.
The diet itself isn't bad (in my opinion, if followed properly through all phases) I just couldn't find a way to eat just enough for me.


~It is normal and natural to enjoy food and then to stop eating (this is the part my brain has trouble with)

~It is natural to feel hunger and food does taste much better when you are really hungry.

~It is okay to only eat 2 or 3 meals a day. It broke me out of the mindset that I had to eat 5-6 times a day to lose weight. For most low to moderately active people 2-3 balanced meals is perfectly adequate.


What I didn't like about IE is that I would read a lot of posts on boards about people eating two bites of a carrot and then saying they are full. Yeah right. If you are really hungry there is no way two bites of a carrot or a sandwich or anything is going to fill you up. And I personally have days where I eat and eat and eat and I swear I never feel "full". So, I think the mind can trick you either way. You can starve yourself or still overeat because you can't find that "full" point.

Also, we can kid ourselves too that it doesn't matter what we eat. But we know deep down that even though IE says no foods are bad that is simply not true. There is no way that you can honestly convince yourself that a Twinkie is not a bad food (if we can even call it a food).
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dazygyrl



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugh...i have tried the whole IE, eat *only* when stomach growls. and all that got me was obsession WAITING, WONDERING when my stomach would growl...when would i get to eat again...

one of the most freeing things talked about in the book for me was...when he talked about eating when hungry. he says...don't eat when you are hungry...eat when it's TIME to eat whether you are hungry or not...that WE are in control of appetite and that by eating at the same TIME everyday, your appetite will follow suit. BAM! no more dwelling on when i get to eat b/c i just know i will get to 3 times a day. SUCH freedom for me for which i am so thankful!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to say one of the biggest problems with IE for me was being very hungry at other than normal meal times. When I wasn't working, it wasn't as much of a problem, but it still cut down on my being able to be social with my meals. Not a lot of people to share a meal with at 11 a.m. or 4 p.m. or... And also the idea that I had to decide exactly what to eat when I was hungry. So when does the food get prepared? Thin people bring lunches to work and plan meals many times way before they get hungry. Sure, they sometimes change their plans, but they are not at the mercy of their hunger all the time.
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sarahkay



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all sound like haters!!

This is how I ate when I used to be thin.... it totally works. It's how our bodies are designed to work. However, we lose touch with it. I know I did... now I can't eat that way anymore because I have so many emotional triggers with food that are hard to overcome without some structured plan in mind.

It is too hard for people with any significant amount of weight to lose, but it certainly isn't false or silly. I was my absolute thinnest when I ate like this....

But that was years ago, and I have a different set of situations now. But that's okay. No S is designed to feed you when you get hungry... if you keep following it day after day your hunger will coincide with your meals. It does the work for me hehehe! Smile
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jellybeans01



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have to say that the stomach growl does work well for the peole who do it. I have swayed from no s many tomes to go back to trying IE. It usually stems from my desire for sweets. The I dont want to wait for the weekend, I can have whatever I want feeling. The problem for me is that the waiting for the stomach growl sometimes makes me so anxious. I will have this sort of uncomfortable emptier feeling, but no growl, and I just wait as my family is eating all around me. I hate that and I tend to fold after a couple of days. I fond if i do practice eating from a salad plate, that I am usually really truly hungry and ready for my meal. Plus, i cant get over the idea of eating at someone elses house and asking them after dishes are done if I could now please eat because my stomach is ready.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haters?
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Strawberry Roan



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I don't practice the stomach growl as a method as much as I do wait until I am truly that hungry to eat often. I am able to eat whenever I want at my job and in my home Very Happy so I often wait until I hear a stomach growl or feel really empty to eat. To me, it signals that my body is using up what I have fed it earlier rather than storing it.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Berry, I think in the first post, it sounds like the same thing, no? Does this mean you end up eating fewer than three meals? I know when I'm not working, it sometimes feels like two meals is enough, esp. if lunch is a bit chunkier than it is during the work week.
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Strawberry Roan



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
Berry, I think in the first post, it sounds like the same thing, no? Does this mean you end up eating fewer than three meals? I know when I'm not working, it sometimes feels like two meals is enough, esp. if lunch is a bit chunkier than it is during the work week.



Yes, it does oolala. I agree that if I eat when truly hungry, I rarely eat breakfast. My first meal would be about 11 or so and I wouldn't eat again until dinner

The only time I probably eat three meals is when we are traveling or dining with others who actually eat normally Very Happy My husband and I rarely even eat the same meals at home, often not at the same time. We are free spirits, I suppose. He knows that most evenings I will be eating a huge salad and that is it.

Too many people question when someone isn't eating, as if missing a meal is a crisis.
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leafy_greens



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-visiting this topic.

This is such a controversial topic, even among No Sers. There is so much misinformation about "feeling hungry" and what that actually FEELS like. Is it mental craving, or the physical stomach growl?

I believe the stomach growl is the physical guideline for "eating when you're hungry." I can only speculate that Roth et. al succeeded in their weight loss by using their physical hunger, but mis-describing it as intuitive/emotional hunger. For those of us who already have emotional eating problems, it can be very misleading to tell us to "eat when we want" with no physical guidelines.

I don't link physical hunger (stomach growling) with IE, but a weight loss tactic to be combined with No S. At my "most successful" (less obsessed with food and losing weight) I've used a combination of No S and feeling a stomach growl. Typically, when I can feel a stomach growl at least once a day, I lose and maintain a significant amount of weight. Whether you want to call this "reducing plate sizes" or just "eating less," I feel like the stomach growl or lack thereof tells you if you have burned off what you ate that day. Consequently, "starting over" on Monday, I usually don't feel that stomach growl for a day or two, if I ate a lot on the weekend. But I try to get back to feeling a growl at least a few times during the week.

If you consider hunger to be a mental craving, then the IE version of eating when you're hungry is not going to work. But if you consider hunger to be stomach growling or other physical manifestations, then eating when you're hungry can be a weight loss tactic. You really can "eat what you want" (IE tactic) as long as it's on 3 plates a day and no sweets (No S tactic.) Making sure you're "hungry" enough at those three meals to lose weight will require some tinkering and experience of what portion size on the plate will get you that physically hungry feeling each day.

On top of this, you have a subset of folks- usually the six-meals-a-day proponents- who think the stomach growling is "slowing the metabolism" and you must keep "stoking the metabolism" by preventing your stomach from growling. I think this has instilled an irrational fear of stomach growling, by insinuating that stomach growling is the same as long-term, intense fasting, which we know does slow the metabolism in those with severe eating disorders. Some people get offended because they are uncomfortable with stomach growling, and say that you're telling them to fast dangerously, which is not the case either.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI, LG!

Each person just has to figure this out on her own and stick with it without much explanation to others. The more my eating can match the core social times of others, and the less obvious I make it to limit myself the way I choose to, the less anyone else pays attention. I don't chime in anymore on these discussions. Other people will likely not be convinced, nor do they need to be. I did have one outburst about it once because I felt the person was giving party-line advice to someone who needed the better information a lot more than the skinny advisor who had never had a weight problem in her life, and actually still didn't', just a bit softer because she was older and wasn't as thin as she was in her 30's. She started reading the diet porn and was telling a heavy person who had in fact already taken off about a third of the advisor's weight before then how to use shakes she was selling to lose more weight! I lost it a little and regretted it because I'm the one who looks like the crazy in those situations, not the people spreading the failing madness. But making money off terrible weight loss plans and using them is deemed normal.

I still maintain that the 3-meal structure was the best training ground for me to respond in a reasonable way to hunger, both "fake" and "real. "

I hope this is happening for you these days, leafy greens!
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistake
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Apprentice1981



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LG!
I wanted to chime in. In my case, I find that if I don't experience either/or any burning sensation/empty gut feeling/growling between my three meals I am either gaining or maintaining. As soon as I "engineer" my meals in a way to experience physical hunger at lunch and/or dinner I am losing. Thank you for voicing your experience!


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oolala53



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to note, my stomach growling is often not accompanied by the sensation of true hunger. It's just a blip along the way.
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Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
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SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Apprentice1981



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my lower abdomen is noisy/growly I know it's food digestion, but when I experience a feeling of a growl/emptiness/ a burning sensation below my breast bone/upper stomach area I know it's true physical hunger. I guess after years of experimentation I know what true physical hunger feels like in my body. I understand though everyone has to figure out what works best for them.

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automatedeating



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I have to be actually hungry every day at some point or I gain weight after a couple weeks.
Over the years, learning to embrace the small time of hunger has helped me adjust to the habits of NoS.
And, I bet that our bodies act physically hungry long before we are in any type of true deficit. It makes sense that our bodies would sound the alarm when we have a reasonable amount of time to respond appropriately.
In fact, that makes me think that when I don't ever get hungry, I am way in storage mode. Hmmm I will ponder over my (delicious) dinner. Very Happy
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Octavia



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is such a great topic.
I have dabbled with IE, and thankfully gave up very quickly. I realised that although having a constant supply of chocolate in the fridge did indeed help me to get bored of it, being bored of chocolate did not actually stop me wanting to eat it. After all, I didn’t know how else to scratch that itch.

I’ve often read IE blogs and concluded that they are selling fairy dust. Having said that, I do wonder if people with extremely disordered eating might benefit from being more aware of their bodies’ signals. For me though, it was just a case of the more you think about hunger, the more hunger you feel. I do think that what you focus on grows. A common platitude!

Also, I often feel a genuine physical discomfort in my stomach, that feels like real hunger, quite soon after eating. I reckon it’s because my body is so used to being constantly fed. It is a sort of hunger, but that doesn’t mean I need food! It’s probably gas! 😊

I wonder if anyone else has discovered Isabel Foxen-Duke’s website, which is IE in all but name. It has articles on topics such as how the only way to avoid falling off the bandwagon is to not be on a bandwagon. She is totally anti diet. But I think we do have to intervene in some way, or we get carried along by our excess food environment and our habits. Either WE assert some control, or we are controlled by those powerful forces.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9212
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was an early proponent of IE and I found it did actually help me see the difference which is why I often refer to fake hunger. There can be tons (ok, that's exaggerated) reasons for us to feel the need to eat, and yes, being full is in the recognized repertoire. The average body likes overeating! The brain has strong mechanisms for preventing starvation, but few to put the brakes on overconsumption. They wouldn't have been very smart 100,000 years ago! Their descendants aren't in the minority for nothin'. Too many died before procreating because they just couldn't hang on to those calories even during the feasting! But knowing didn't stop me, either, and boy, neither did having the food around. Later I was really miffed when I found out how much the brain is hijacked by modern foods and about Brian Wansink's research that virtually EVERYONE eats more when s/he has access to more food.

I get Isabel Foxen Duke's newsletter but I have come to have less faith in her claims, and also have gotten more fearful of the effects of eating the big proportion of refined starch, cruddy fats food that I think a lot of even the successful ones end up eating. Plus, diets are not the only reason people overeat, and some here and in other countries have never been on one and never even thought about it, but still overeat pretty compulsively. They just don't feel bad about it.

Along with her, I am also critical of the emphasis on appearance for women- it was one of the major blocks for me to surrender to limiting my eating-, but also fear for the ones who actually either have or at risk for health problems associated with obesity. I believe they will resist or resent a doctor's recommendation that they rein in their eating or try to lose weight. They are then often forced to use meds, and for diabetes, it is well-known that insulin loses its ability over time to rectify the situation. What a person may not ever have problems associated with weight, but ones who develop them are at risk by believing they shouldn't be asked to change their eating. Plus, we are now seeing problems senior citizens have that are associated with overeating in middle age.

I do believe there is some reason to consider that concerns with beauty divert women from seeing much more important areas of concern, but I just don't know what kind of voice is effective for that.

And the beat goes on. What's for dinner? Smile
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Apprentice1981



Joined: 17 Sep 2016
Posts: 56
Location: California

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to share this in hopes that this might be of help to someone here. I highly recommend that we as unique individuals do a study of 1. N=1 experiment. After 15+ of searching for THE answer I realized most of my troubles came from researching and looking at studies. I read studies, read blogs, bought books, listened to podcasts on IE, food reward, etc. My highest lifetime BMI was around 33.5 and currently I am around low 19s. I've tried "clean" eating, Weston A. Price Foundation diet, no sugar, no refined anything, etc. and I came to the conclusion that if you tell me not to eat something I enjoy I rebel at some point and binge on "forbidden" food. IE was helpful in helping me to discover what I truly enjoy eating and the way food makes me feel. For example, I used to not eat a carby breakfast without balancing it with plenty of protein. I gave it a fair trial by tuning out all of my "nutrition knowledge". I found out that I feel energized all morning after having a bowl of cereal or granola. Toast is delicious with all kinds of different toppings. Biscuits, pancakes, waffles, etc are very good with different toppings as well. My husband, who is slim and 4 slim children eat this way. Now I do too! I found out that I feel good after I eat a sandwich made with white bread and maybe a few chips if I feel like it. I feel good when I finish that type of meal with a few bites of something sweet. I've been indoctrinated that I was powerless over highly palatable foods. I found it not to be true in my case. I indeed can be trusted with ANY food and be slim. I am completely in control of how much I eat. NoS is awesome by establishing the habit of discrete meals in moderate amounts. Moderation is key! I don't need to dwell on what I was. That takes a lot of practice. I am a work in progress. Again, this is my experience and might not work for everyone.
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Octavia



Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 360
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Apprentice! That’s a great testimony, and a reminder of the true role of our own intuition. It’s not necessarily all about going through the day constantly grading our hunger on a scale of 1 to 10 (which I guess is what 3-0-7 girl was referring to by the Stomach Growl Diet, when she started this very interesting thread) but noticing which foods delight and satisfy us. And those foods are not necessarily what the researchers/experts recommend.

Oolala’s mention of the dangers of being diverted from more important areas of concern by chasing after beauty is a huge issue. I have often asked myself if it’s un-feminist to want to be slimmer. My basic guideline is that if I’m spending money, ie. consuming, then I’m probably being a victim to someone else’s manipulation, and therefore not feminist. But No S is all about simply eating less (this takes me back to my discussion about the Economists’ Diet! Can’t remember which thread it was on.). So No S is less consumerist/sheep-like. But does it still rely on us feeling bad about not reaching accepted levels of beauty? The Intuitive Eating bloggers do address this, to their credit. Though I’ve wasted just as much time on their websites as No S, instead of planning the revolution! 😉
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9212
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think some people bring the emphasis on thinness to the "table" here, but it's the excess eating that it seems to me Reinhard emphasizes. Sure, on his first main page, before the book, he talked in very plain terms about the origins of fatness, but it really seemed like moderation was the goal whether thinness followed or not. He trusted it would.

Apprentice, I may have commented on it before and mean no malice in saying that I think I would have to have cancer or something else major to have a BMI of 19anything. That is a stunning and extremely atypical transformation. Were you slim in high school? Maybe I've asked before, and you are welcome to say that you'd rather not say.

Thankfully, it's not necessary to go that low! It seems you've found your happy balance and I'd wager you wouldn't eat too differently if the weight loss had stopped in the 20's somewhere.

I think No S can be a first step in the revolution! That and staying quiet, then pleasantly changing the subject when the female ritual talk of dieting and body dysmorphia arises. Going on a media diet is a good step, too. Human evolution does show that women are prized for looking good- good meant descendants-, but the range of good was pretty darn wide! The modern media's ability to take advantage of that to promote a narrower and narrower view of attractiveness is in addition a perversion of of our desire for acceptance by the tribe a perverson (gawd, I wish this site had spell-check! I'd pay a dime for it for every word) of free speech. Just like I've come to believe that the marketing industry's ability to promote in an egregiously magnified image of the snack food industry's ability to pervert the natural desire for sugar/salt/fat. Talk about fools or rogues!

I'd better get off the couch and do the dishes pretty soon. It's a feminist act in my house because only a woman benefits: me!
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Apprentice1981



Joined: 17 Sep 2016
Posts: 56
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oolala, I understand your concern about media's influence on women and their quest for thinness. I am by no means chasing after that. My goal is to be a good example of moderation to my 4 children and have a satisfying and joyful "relationship" with food. I also value "feeling" comfortable in my clothes and bathing suit. You asked if I was a thin teenager. I was at my heaviest ( peaking at ~33.5 BMI) when I was 15-17. Looong story short, at this point in my journey, I am turning 37 this year, my body is comfortable @ ~19 BMI. I am small framed, pear-shaped femme and by no means look gaunt or sickly and still have plenty of reserve 😊

P.S. my "Lifeisablessing" mod (no food is off limits on my 3 plates)has helped tremendously with becoming a woman of moderation. It truly is a blessing and has brought a profound healing element to my "relationship" with the gift of food.
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If you want to avoid wrongdoing, stay out of temptation

~Dallas Willard
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missywilde70



Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apprentice - I too am on the "Lifeisablessing mod" 3 meals a day anything on my plate non-vanilla No'ser! (and sometimes split breakfast into two parts if I am up extra early)

So good to know of your success with this mod too!

I too, have been on the IE/non-diet/stomach growl train... which always ended in a train WRECK! However, the positive thing was, temporarily it relieved the stress from all the other restrictive diets I tried. It was like a sabbatical, but when my pants got tight it was much more stressful than when I started knowing that yet again I had not found the right plan to lose weight.

No S (in my case with the mod we both use, apprentice), is to me a structured, controlled form of IE, eat whatever you want in moderation, but only at mealtime - and I am hungry before meals 80% of the time.
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Missy
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Apprentice1981



Joined: 17 Sep 2016
Posts: 56
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Missy, glad to hear that Life's mod has brought food peace in your journey as well! I like how you word it... "controlled and structured IE".
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If you want to avoid wrongdoing, stay out of temptation

~Dallas Willard
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LifeisaBlessing



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi missy and Apprentice! Smile

So glad to know that my NoS mod is working well for both of you! Smile I'm still utilizing it, and it's worked fantastically to maintain my results. I did take a brief haitus from it around the holidays, but I'm back on track, moving in the right direction. Smile

Ironically, the thread starter, 3-0-7 girl, is who I got my NoS mod idea from. She no longer actively posts, but I've often wondered if she stuck with her approach over the years. Here is her short post where she talks about it.

And as always, feel free to ask me any questions, either on here or by PM--I'm happy to help! Smile
_________________
I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination.
~Jimmy Dean

The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective.
~El Fug, on the NoS Diet
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