Everyday Systems: everydaysystems: message 35 of 74

Note: This is an archived message from our old discussion software. Join the current discussion here.

    
--- In , Reinhard Engels 
<beautiful_idiot@y...> wrote:
> I have to admit, I created this group mostly just to
> prevent yahoo group squatters from grabbing it (are
> there such creatures? 

D..."yahoo group squatters? LOL...I am so anti-computer-saavy that 

the image is not registering, but it sounds really funny anyway...I 
still don't know what the heck BLOG is, sounds like clotted cream, 
but I know it's not edible.."

> But eventually the idea is that this is the place to
> discuss everyday systems macro issues: how the
> component systems interact, ideas for new systems, how
> I can pay my bills, etc. So join up if this prospect
> even mildly interests you (or merely out of pity, to
> relieve my embarrassment at being the only member of
> this group)

Hi Reinhard : ) this letter is so long, forgive me! It comes from a 
place of love and friendship...As usual, please feel more than happy 
to rebuke, and reject it all and I will in future mind my own 
biz'nes.

I think that a major everyday problem for most is how to make enough 
money to live on...So thats what I am writing about, specifically 
how YOU can make more...
You said it yourself in the description of your trickle down revenue 
sheet, which was indeed pathetic, lol, that you are a 
rotten "businessman". Basically you are just hoping for "found 

money" but I will suggest to think in a different way. Considering 

how much really worthwhile time you have put into these sites, 
especially No S, which has gathered quite a formidable following, 
you might want to be less wishy-washy about asking for 
compensation...Okay, understand that I really believe that the 
business "competative edge" usually doesn't go hand in hand with 

people like you (ie, thoughtful, polite, somewhat worried to offend, 
and just plain nice...) but you deserve something...Whether or not 
these people will stick with it, you have unselfishly put it out 
there for all to use, and there are probably scads of people who are 
lurking and reading the posts, benefitting from a free service 
which, unless you decide to shut down the site, is unlimited..This 
is a great great program you created, OKAY,,,just GREAT !
Asking for money, when you don't necessarily realize the worth of 
what you have to offer, usually is weird or maybe just feels 
wrong...Obviously, you are a small businessman with a great product 
and chat group amidst a sea of overcommercialized diets, but I feel 
you wouldn't be besmirching your benevolent heart, by politely 
requesting a NO S contribution. There is not one person who could 
accuse you of being a "evil mega corporation" LOL.
You have only asked for this fee in such a polite, and almost timid 
manner (you know all the very adorable, semi self depricating 
comments regarding the "obnoxious little mastercard emblem"), but by 

using this approach, the message you are sending out there, is 
pretty much saying to the world...I don't deserve your money...This 
year when I had to start charging people for massage, I felt very 
weird about it...I have never had an affinity for money and also, 
have never had much around, even at Passover when I was seven, and I 
found the affikomen, which would allow me to ask for a really nice 
present like a bike or some nice dolls, whatever, what did I ask 
for? One dollar! So I too began life as a bad businesswoman, 
lol : ) This year once the practice massage period ended in March 
and I had my license, I had to change my mind set...This is business 
and I do a great massage so I just decided to be very fair, and even 
undercharge for my first few years, often giving great first timer 
discounts as incentive to try me, but in no way would I be happy 
with myself if I didn't get what I thought I was worth....
So, my friend, with your baby here now, and you are probably 
spending close to 100 a month just on diapers, you probably really 
need to see some residual stuff from No S and maybe even 
Shovelglove. I propose to you that you muster up your courage and be 
a bit more aggressive about asking for that donation on the 
webpage...This would be in the style of say, public radio 
fundraisers, or public television...Tastefully and nicely done, of 
course in your polite and charming own language, but with the 
presumption, on YOUR part that your site has a great worth and 
deserves some form of financial "thanks" for putting it out for all 

to use.
Perhaps mention that, if after trying No S for three weeks and 
finding it is something which will benefit a new visitors life, and 
maybe create some sort of computer program within the site to send a 
three week reminder to the persons inbox of their email, just to 
keep on top of it all, you ask that there be a one time fee of $15 
dollars...I pick 15 but you may want to ask for more or less...
Somehow, 20 is a mental stretch, but doable, 10 just seems like you 
are selling yourself short. Maybe only *20 percent* of the people 
who visit your site will do this, okay that would be around $750, 
not a bad thank you...You will get what you ask for eventually, from 
the people who really love and respect and value your great No S 
stuff...You will get nothing, if you meekly, ask for nothing....I 
hope that I haven't hurt or offended you by making these judgements 
about how you are handling things...I have had to grapple with these 
issues constantly, but I will give you one last scenario which may 
be useful...
Remember Reinhard, you are just trying to make a living, and asking 
for your due is not being greedy (maybe if you asked for repeated 
donations or really high ones...)
When I started doing childrens birthday music with my guitar, I 
couldn't believe that my friend was suggesting to me that I charge 
$200 for one hours work...After all, it's just singing and 
playing "old mac donald" how hard could that be? She told me that 

if a parent wanted to rent a person in an Elmo costume for an hour 
that the going rate was around $250, and that private entertainment 
was just one of those fields where people *expected* to shell out 
big bucks...I still felt uneasy, so I started with asking for 150 
per party...then I had a few experiences where I had to drive almost 
an hour to get there, the parents were really loud while I was 
trying desperately to entertain, and losing my voice, too 
boot...this work was actually hard and took up a whole morning or 
afternoon, scheduling wise...In the end my guitar playing friend 
Dan, put it in a way that really changed my "meek" perspective.
I was providing these "non talented" families with something that 

they would never be able to do themselves, and as easy, and 
pleasurable, as it was for me to sing and play, it was still 
something of unusual "worth" to them. He really encouraged me to 

stand my ground and ask for market value compensation without guilt 
(just because it was easy work for me, that's not to be confused 
with being unworthy of payment) I now ask for my full 200...If the 
person has a little resistance to this I mention that I could give a 
small discount if this price is a hardship for them...I think that 
you will find that if you ask for some compensation, in a nice, but 
convicted way you will see some good results...Whats the worst that 
could happen....things staying the same?
All my prayers and hopes that you do well and reap the fruits of 
your efforts. As soon as I pay my car insurance I am going to put 
in my $20 one time fee using that obnoxious little icon :) 
Love and Peace,
Your Grateful friend,
Debbie