Yet Another Newbie with S Day Bingeing Questions

[greeneyes53]

I confess I haven't spent enough time on this Forum to figure out how to navigate, which I hope to change. Being the instant gratification type of person I am (have I just figured out my problem?), I'm impatient for feedback about a serious problem with bingeing on S days. I started No S seriously on 9/4 at about 206 lbs. (5'6"). I know some of you will think I'm fibbing, but I have had no problem at all sticking to the three S's on No S days. I can withstand candy and other irresistible food co-workers bring in - something I could only sometimes ignore in the past - or I can be starving when I come home late in the evening from exercise, and I stick to the rules for dinner. I'm not talking about success with managing what I eat (a LOT of carbs to get me to the next meal) or how much I eat as, long as it fits on a plate (not a platter), and I follow the second and third S. Feeling deprived would be absolutely the worse thing I could let happen, especially at this point.

As well as I do on No S days, when the S days come, batten down the hatches!! Here's today's list: grande chai and a spinach wrap; three little jelly donuts (39 cents each or 3 for $1 - an easy choice), an apple fritter, and Swedish fish from 7-11; large bag of movie butter popcorn, piece of Italian bread w/cream cheese, falafel gyro with all the requisite sauces, baklava, about 4 glasses of juice (at least full fruit, no added sugar!); and, a few minutes ago, a can of soda. I may have left a few things off since eating this much puts me into an altered state.

The sad part of all of this - and in spite of the severe physical (heartburn, gas, intestinal problems) and psychological effects of this behavior, I can very easily end up in the kitchen right after this post. (Fortunately tomorrow is grocery day so there is pretty much nothing left to eat!)

If anyone has any words of wisdom or assurances that this behavior will take care of itself over time, that would be terrific. Fortunately I haven't gained any weight. Instead my weight varies by about six pounds during the week - of course the lowest on Sat. a.m. and the highest on Monday morning. My goals is are to get healthy by peeling off a few pounds, to stop bingeing. and to bump up the exercise a bit. (Shovelglove is starting the look good!) P.S. I don't remember bingeing this way in the 500+ diets I've tried, but then your mind thankfully helps you forgot bad things.

Thanks to all.

[wosnes]

If that's meals as well as snacks/treats, I don't think it's too bad. If that's just snacks/treats -- well, it's not at all unusual, especially if you've been on numerous diets.

How to stop it? My way was to give up (most) processed foods. I occasionally indulge (I LOVE potato chips), but not often. My treats are usually sweets and I eat only those I've made or those I've purchased from a high-quality source -- like a bakery or one of the vendor's at the farmer's market. No treats from the grocery or convenience store.

Should you choose to eliminate processed foods, you may find that the digestive issues improve.

[milliem]

It is something that most people find reduces with time. You've been doing NoS for what, a month? 6 weeks? Give yourself a break, and some time to get into the habits! Perhaps focus on getting your N day habits solid (and working on reducing portion size/increasing the health of your food). As you say, feeling deprived would not be good at this point, S days are the 'release valve' from a week of sticking to no sweets, no seconds and no snacks.

I'd say give it at least 3-6 months before worrying about S days. If by then your N days are solid but your S days haven't changed, you could think about doing something differently. If ou add in some exercise that might also help - I've always found that diet and exercise together motivate me in a way that one or other doesn't really do.

On a personal note, I've always struggled with S days - some are better than others, but I eat a lot more on S days than I do on N days, which has resulted in me pretty much maintaining my weight for over a year rather than losing steadily. I have the same lose/gain cycle from Monday to Saturday! However, given that without NoS I would have steadily gained weight, I'm not too unhappy I am finding that in the last couple of months recommitting to NoS after a break, my lowest weight is slowly creeping down as well. Things that I've found helpful on S days are:
- planning treats in advance
- buying single/small portions of things rather than a huge bag of something I'll want to 'use up' before Monday
- keeping to a 3 meal schedule
- planning to do things that will keep me busy!

[r.jean]

I agree that S days get gradually better with time. I also agree that keeping the 3 meal structure helps.

[greeneyes53]

I REALLY appreciate the time you took to reply - with very good suggestions. FYI, the Saturday food I listed was everything I ate that day. I think at this point in time I need to be as gentle as possible with myself and not add in any restrictions (giving up processed foods), but I do like the idea of only eating high-quality sweets (although Swedish Fish fits into that category for me!). I definitely feel my gastro problems would resolve if I stopped bingeing and put more healthy food into my diet.

Please feel free to add more advice anytime. In the meantime, I'm going to stop beating myself up, which may make a difference in the bingeing.

Thanks again.

If that's meals as well as snacks/treats, I don't think it's too bad. If that's just snacks/treats -- well, it's not at all unusual, especially if you've been on numerous diets.

How to stop it? My way was to give up (most) processed foods. I occasionally indulge (I LOVE potato chips), but not often. My treats are usually sweets and I eat only those I've made or those I've purchased from a high-quality source -- like a bakery or one of the vendor's at the farmer's market. No treats from the grocery or convenience store.

Should you choose to eliminate processed foods, you may find that the digestive issues improve.

[greeneyes53]

Your response definitely gave me a little bit of peace. Did slightly better today (Sunday). Yes, it will be six weeks this Tuesday that I've been doing No S. I'm going to try and relax more, but not push too much to change anything right now as I feel kind of fragile and feeling deprived would make this feel too much like the 500+ diets I've been on. In fact, I'd like to think that this is NOT a diet.

I may have neglected to mention the swimming and stationary bike riding that I'm doing. I used to try to get in 4 miles of walking every day (usually did at least 2), but I have stress fracture that won't heal. Also the doc gave me the really rotten news that I may not be able to walk for exercise ever again. I LOVE walking so I'm bereft. The swimming and bike are non-weight bearing, the only thing he wants me to do - boring!

I agree with you 100% that despite the problems I'm having, I would be gaining instead of maintaining if I were not on the No S. I did try to plan my "treats" one Saturday and it worked a bit. I'm going to try again.
Staying busy doing things I like to do is definitely a goal. I'd like live by: do one thing that I love everyday, but lots of times I'm not sure what I love.

Thanks again for responding.

It is something that most people find reduces with time. You've been doing NoS for what, a month? 6 weeks? Give yourself a break, and some time to get into the habits! Perhaps focus on getting your N day habits solid (and working on reducing portion size/increasing the health of your food). As you say, feeling deprived would not be good at this point, S days are the 'release valve' from a week of sticking to no sweets, no seconds and no snacks.

I'd say give it at least 3-6 months before worrying about S days. If by then your N days are solid but your S days haven't changed, you could think about doing something differently. If ou add in some exercise that might also help - I've always found that diet and exercise together motivate me in a way that one or other doesn't really do.

On a personal note, I've always struggled with S days - some are better than others, but I eat a lot more on S days than I do on N days, which has resulted in me pretty much maintaining my weight for over a year rather than losing steadily. I have the same lose/gain cycle from Monday to Saturday! However, given that without NoS I would have steadily gained weight, I'm not too unhappy I am finding that in the last couple of months recommitting to NoS after a break, my lowest weight is slowly creeping down as well. Things that I've found helpful on S days are:
- planning treats in advance
- buying single/small portions of things rather than a huge bag of something I'll want to 'use up' before Monday
- keeping to a 3 meal schedule
- planning to do things that will keep me busy!

[greeneyes53]

Hearing this from you and the other two people who replied to my post was very encouraging. I think I'll really have to investigate staying with a 3 meal structure on the S days. Does that mean no snacks and no seconds but sweets are okay? As I told the other two folks who responded, I have to be very, very careful not to do anything that will make me feel deprived. Because I'm now more positive that it will at least partly resolve itself in time, I'm going tol concentrate on being good to myself.

Thank you for your response.

I agree that S days get gradually better with time. I also agree that keeping the 3 meal structure helps.

[wosnes]

Does that mean no snacks and no seconds but sweets are okay?

Yes, that is what it means.

When I started No-S, I didn't realize there was a one plate rule. I thought "no seconds" meant no extra servings. So I ate whatever was being served at a meal, even if more than one plate was involved. It worked! By the time I realized that no seconds meant only one plate of food, I couldn't see a reason to change what I was doing. I still eat one serving of whatever is being served, no matter how many plates are involved and I don't visualize whether or not it would fit on one plate. I've found that most of the time, the second plate (or bowl) is full of vegetables, so I'm not too worried about extra calories. Also, while I've only rarely actually measured portions, I do eyeball them. I try to keep my plates 1/2 vegetables/fruit, 1/4 protein and 1/4 starch. If the main dish is something like a casserole or lasagna, I try to keep it to 1/3 of the plate and fill the rest with vegetables.

I've been at this for about six years and I've recently started eating no snacks most of the time -- even on S days. This started because of reading about the eating habits in both France and Italy where many adults don't snack at all and those that do snack rarely -- usually if the evening meal is going to start after 9 PM. Then the snack is more like a mini-meal, not junk food.

I've found this very easy mostly because I can have snack foods (chips, etc) at meals. When I have sweets, they're with a meal.

[milliem]

Does that mean no snacks and no seconds but sweets are okay?

Yes, that is what it means.

When I try to stick to a three meal rule on weekends I'm more flexible than on N days - usually it's one 'eating event' if that makes sense - so it might be one meal, with a side plate or a second helping, and/or a dessert afterwards. It's more to stop me perma-snacking all day and grazing on this and that. Not that I find it particularly easy, my brain says 'you can eat what you want on S days' so I have real trouble saying no to food (or myself!) Work in progress

[NERunner]

I started No S in January, and my S days were pretty much like yours until last month. I was great on N days, although my dinner plate was pretty full most nights. I started at 160 and only lost 4 pounds in 9 months. I don't have a lot to lose, so I wasn't too worried and I had stopped the gradual increase on the scale I've been battling for years. I started slowing down on my S days in September, and I lost 6 pounds in a month. My dinners are smaller and my S days are pretty much the same as N days but I do allow myself a treat or two each day. My advice, don't worry about it too much until you've been at it for a while, or you will feel deprived and may fail. I wanted to change habits so the weight loss would be permanent, and I feel more confident than I ever have before. Good luck!

[r.jean]

The three meal structure for me means I start out S days like any other day, and I indulge in S events throughout the day if it is something I really want. I might only have one S event during the day, but it can be any S. Other times, I indulge in several S events, but that has become rare.

[ironchef]

FYI, the Saturday food I listed was everything I ate that day.

I agree with wosnes, that list isn't that out of the ordinary, and certainly I've had S days along those lines. I've had several S days since I started this (in July) where I felt ill or had indigestion by the end of the day, or slept badly that night. A few times I've had what I think are sugar headaches. I've slowed somewhat (I think my stomach has shrunk in what it can actually take!), but by no means toned it down the way some other posters have.

For me, the key is not to get too worried about the S day, and avoid the label "binge". The stress of worrying about it is almost worse than the day. Also a binge to me implies a certain head space and lack of agency that I don't really relate to.

Why not take the physical ill effects as a learning experience? Instead of getting hung up on the whys and wherefores and putting new rules in place, just let your body lead the way. These days I'm more likely to I think "hey, when I eat this way, I feel sick and headache-y".

[oolala53]

I want to say again that I think it's too early to worry about it. Adding the pressure of curing everything in a month or two I believe interrupts the process. However, do gently and with curiosity, not condemnation, really register the crappy feelings you get from overeating and the light and lively feelings you have between meals during the week. Try to keep the rhetoric out of it, and just concentrate on the experience, i.e, try not to entertain thoughts like "Ugh, I feel awful. Why do I do this to myself? When will I ever learn?" Unless you are very sure you never eat in response to emotions, avoid these. They just complicate the process for now. Much later you can start paying attention to satiety issues.

[Nicest of the Damned]

It's too early to worry about what happens on S days. One problem with restricting your S days now is that you've only got a fixed amount of willpower. If you try to make yourself follow too many rules at once, what's likely to happen is that you'll end up actually sticking to none of them. And no diet can possibly work if you don't stick to it.

Right now, you should be working on getting your N days right. That's it. Nothing else. Once that doesn't require too much effort, then you can start working on other things.

You might be seeing an extinction burst:

http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic ... tion+burst

Eventually, your habits from N days will start to carry over to S days. I found that it just didn't occur to me to snack on S days, because I was so used to not doing it on N days. It would be Sunday, and I would realize that I hadn't eaten any snacks on Saturday, and didn't feel like I was missing out by not doing so. But that isn't going to happen until your N day habits are well established, and that just takes time. There's no way to rush that.

If you do start to restrict S days, to paraphrase a well-known saying, restricting S days is like cooking a small fish- it takes a very light touch. You want to make sure your restrictions don't leave you feeling deprived. Changes to where or how you eat might work better than changes to what you eat. For example, I had a mod that, even on S days, I didn't eat in any position other than sitting. I had another mod that I couldn't eat directly from packages (except for single-serving packages)- I had to put the food on a plate first, and put the package away, before I could eat. Those mods didn't restrict what I could eat, but they did make it less likely that I would eat something like a whole bag of chips. If I felt deprived, I could have what I wanted, when I wanted, as much as I wanted, but not standing up, and not directly from the package.