Katie's Daily Check-In

MerryKat · Post by **MerryKat** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:35 am

((((((((((Hugs))))))))))

I think you might be pleasantly suprised when you only follow Vanilla No S and don't worry about exactly what is on that plate how free you feel.

Once the habit is down pat you can start worrying about what & why.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:47 am

Thank you, Merry

You're absolutely right, of course.

Friday went well -- I allowed myself some OJ in between meals. The weekend was pretty wild, but that's okay. Let's see what this week brings!

Today was also fine. I took a looong nap between lunch and dinner, so despite having lunch early, I wasn't really hungry until 6:30 pm or so. Also made some brownies and wasn't tempted to try any

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:26 pm

Well, when I cut those brownies into pieces today, the crumbs seemed pretty tempting... but I didn't have any. Dinner was actually an S event because we had a kind of "dessert for dinner" bible study meal with brownies, ice cream and fruit salad. Didn't eat much otherwise (muesli for breakfast, piece of toast and half a kohlrabi for lunch). Drank waaay too much water (like a gallon and a half, that is 6 liters). I think I'll try forcing myself to drink less the next week or so, and if I'm still feeling really thirsty all the time, I'll go see a doctor.

My 5K run is tomorrow, wish me luck!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:46 pm

Oh my God, you guys, I did it! I ran 5 kilometers without ever walking in between! I ended up taking around 32 minutes (which I'm really happy with), but I don't really care about the time, I'm just so proud that I did it all running. No walks, no stops, just consistency.

I've decided to limit my "water intake" to just 3 liters a day (that's about 100 oz) and I'm not feeling very dehydrated (despite that run). I think it may be psychological or actually be kind of a vicious cycle (I read online that thirst/a dry mouth is one of the symptoms of over-hydration... weird, huh), so I'm trying to break that now and see how I feel. Drinking more than my kidneys can master (which is about a liter per hour) is not a good idea, despite all those benefits of drinking lots of water.
And yes, I know thirst is a symptom for diabetes, and I know I'm at risk (because my dad has type 1 and both his parents have type 2 diabetes), but I did a glucose tolerance test a while back and while my blood glucose was slightly higher than it should have been, it wasn't enough for full-on diabetes yet. So that just means I have a higher risk for developing type 2 diabetes.
And if I had type 1, I'd be losing weight fast

(not that I'd mind that part of the disease). I think I'm way too young (20) and not fat enough (BMI 23-24) for type 2. So I'll just be careful to live healthily the next couple of decades (like, until I die) so I don't get type 2. This is actually something I can do something about, unlike type 1, which can strike anytime.
Sorry, kind of went off on a tangent here, but I just wanted to make that clear.

Foodwise, I've had no trouble sticking to No S today. Had muesli for breakfast, went to the cafeteria for lunch, had 1.5 glasses of OJ in the afternoon, and now, after my run, I'm not even very hungry... maybe I'll have some kohlrabi and toast again, before the vegetable goes bad (it's pretty hot here at the moment).

(Sorry for all the parentheses.)

Oh, and by the way, if you read my check-in, feel free to comment! I really don't mind -- on the contrary

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:36 am

My weight is behaving strangely this week. Now, I don't mind weighing 133 lb (for now), or even 135 (which is what I weighed on Tuesday), but I'm confused. How can I gain 6 lbs within two weeks? That's not even... huh.

No, it won't affect my No S compliance, but it's really weird.

Bssh · Post by **Bssh** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:10 am

Is it water weight? Hormones? Are you doing more exercise so water retention due to muscle repair? Time of month? It's always one of these things for me.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:35 pm

My water balance must be pretty messed up nowadays... drinking exactly 3 liters a day should fix that. I'm exercising, but it's just jogging, nothing that would cause the muscles to need lots of repairing. Could be due to the upcoming time of the month... we'll see. Not that it matters. It's just really odd.

So I just found out I ran that 5K in 31 minutes and 37 seconds -- not bad! Food was fine today, but I realized I'm really not looking forward to my standard dinner (you know, the piece of toast with curd cheese and tomatoes, along with an apple). I think I'll have to think of something different... not sure what. Suggestions? It should be quick and vegetarian.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:58 am

Yesterday I had the rest of the kohlrabi and a buttered/salted piece of toast for dinner, but I don't think that's a healthy idea for every day. My weight was down to 130.1 lb today, so that was nice. It sucks to have all these fluctuations, but I guess I gotta live with it.

Went for a run today (was going to do a 4.5 km round, there's a nice path that goes all the way around the inner city that's 4.5 km long), but I had to stop and walk for a while due to cramps (just like I did a month ago... when running for 5 minutes at a time seemed impressive. Crazy how far I've come). My plan re: running is to run this round on N days at least as long as it's warm enough to do so this year. Then I may have to think of something else. I mean... I still don't particularly enjoy it. I'm just not a sports person, it seems.

Looking forward to my S days! Already got a green week (with one S event, but whatever) down -- yay

Tomorrow I'll run that exact round with a group of people from my church. Should be fun!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:34 am

128.7 lb today

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:07 pm

My S days were pretty wild, and I didn't go running today, and made today an S day because my parents came to visit me and we went out for ice cream, then I had some chocolate that they'd brought me... not the best way to start a new week. Anyway, tomorrow's a new day.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:15 pm

Haven't been running all week. Not feeling well due to finals etc. The past two days have been hard -- felt bad about Monday not being green, frustrated about finals and other things, but (!) I didn't give in and snack. Tonight was especially hard. Had a piece of toast with jam on it, and some kohlrabi, for dinner -- didn't hold for long. Got hungry again around 9:30, wanted some OJ -- didn't have anymore OJ. Went to the store to get some, and boy, did those sweets in the grocery store look tempting. But still I stood firm, bought my OJ, my milk, and left. Am currently drinking a cup of milk. Go me!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:38 am

Went for a run yesterday, so the day was green in both aspects. Weighed myself this morning: 129.2 lb.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:11 am

Went running yesterday, too, and weighed 128.5 lb today.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:56 pm

Ate way too much on my S days this weekend. Didn't go for a run Monday & today, but went to an early lecture instead. Today, because of all the stress (finals next week), had about 6 oz of chocolate. I feel awful. I guess it's to be expected, but I'm just so impatient and want to be back at < 120 lb already.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:19 am

In spite of everything, weighed only 129.9 lb today. Not going for a run, but I'll study some more for an hour before I leave for classes. That's more important than general fitness/burning calories right now.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:39 pm

Still not going running. Not sure when I'll start again. Maybe after finals (one exam is next Monday, the other next Wednesday).

Yesterday was fine, S-wise -- I was distracted by my host sister and her friend visiting me, so the day was green and the other chocolate bar I had sitting around didn't tempt me.

This morning, however, I got frustrated studying again and ate that chocolate bar + the chocolates they'd given me... like 7.8 oz total. I'd weighed beforehand and was at exactly 130 lb. Screw this. I'm so frustrated with it all. I've spent more time struggling with No S than actually following it sanely (two years vs. nine months). I didn't have all these food issues before I started No S. What the hell. I feel like I'll never actually get the habit down again. [insert curse words here] I want some more chocolate.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Hey Anoulie,

I don't have any great words of advice, because I often feel precisely the same way. You are NOT alone. However, that doesn't help the issue, does it. You want to have good habits, discipline and a weight you are happy with. I wonder if loosening the rules to work with your current lifestyles and culture might be beneficial? For example, I've never been successful with the one plate rule. If I get too hung up on it, I binge. I have a good enough gauge that I know how much of each course to have so I am not stuffed at the end. Common sense works for me. I also don't see a huge deal if I end a meal with a small sweet here and there. I'm talking like one cookie, small slice of pie etc. I know it's totally not Vanilla, but it's the premise of eating sanely 7 days a week, like a civilized person, and it really doesn't interfere with life at all. My ideal is breakfast, lunch and dinner. No more, no less. That's my personal success ticket. In those meals, I don't have to stick to one plate or no sweets. It works for me, but you may have a different lifestyle that surrounds you, in which Vanilla is best. But if it's not working for you, maybe try to use it as a framework and build around what works for YOU. The idea, in the end, is healthy eating in reasonable amounts that allows you to live normally and find pleasure (especially when eating socially). A lot of people I know roughly follow this and they're all skinny. Sorry for the long ramble!!!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:10 am

This week has been green so far!

Weight: 130.5 lb (Wednesday), 129.4 lb (Thursday), 128.1 lb (today, Friday). Not bad at all!

Sinnie, thanks for your advice

I've actually thought about and even started implementing some of what you talked about, but this is where my perfectionism kicks in. If I say I can have a sweet with lunch, and then have it, I'll feel like I already broke the rules, get unhappy about it, and the WTH effect kicks in. So that doesn't really work for me. I just gotta work on Vanilla No S and especially on staying on track when (not if!) I fail.

Also thanks to oolala for your PM, I'm about to reply to you.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:12 am

Weighed 126.3 lb today... but I'm at my parent's house, and I always lose 2 lb here. S day time!

EDIT: Meaning I don't literally lose 2 lb here, just that the scale measures my weight differently.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:30 pm

Come visit us on No S.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:01 am

I've been having green days since Nov 1 (plus two NWK S days, but those were more like S events -- a roll with jam and butter when we baked stuff together at a friend's party, and on the other day, a pint of coke I had to drink for an experiment where we measured our blood sugar). Probably not losing weight yet, but who cares? Gave away my scale, too. Infrequent weighing at my parents' house is more than enough.
Feeling pretty bloated since Sunday, but it's that time of the month again, so I guess that'll be gone in a week's time.
So far I'm feeling pretty good about this. I just want to keep November green, and December, too, hopefully. The real challenge is gonna be having one of those emotional binge failures, then getting right back on track.
I'll probably post here every now and again. Thanks for reading!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:15 am

Wow! That's really impressive. Hope you'll be posting quick updates here and there, I've always enjoyed lurking around your thread.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:07 pm

Thanks!

I've been in an inexplicably bad mood all day today, it's just 2 pm and I'm already having a hard time staying green, especially since I already bought all the sweets for this weekend

Oh well, I'll pull through. I think I'll take a nap, actually.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:38 pm

Naps are excellent diversions and probably what are needed anyway. Good move.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:05 pm

Indeed they are, and it was. Plus, it's a good way to pass the time before the next meal. I kept busy between that nap and dinner, and after that, it wasn't very difficult for me anymore. Now it's 11 pm and I'm about to go to bed. Success!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:02 pm

Just like in the past couple of years, this is tough. It's difficult for me to resist all those sweets in the stores and everywhere. There's no point in denying it. The difference this time? I just don't give in. I acknowledge that it's hard for me, then I move on and keep No-S-ing.

Thursday will be my 21st day on plan! Only greens and yellows so far! I can do this! November shall be a month without reds!

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:55 pm

Yay--good job! I definitely had to white knuckle it at first and now it's just habit.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:07 pm

Ugh. You guys. Yesterday was tough. Today's easier. Tomorrow's Day 21.

Tomorrow is also another get-together of my friends and me. The purpose of this get-together? Making donuts. Now, I don't know why, but a lot of our meetings seem to revolve around making food (those that don't usually have a few snacks on the table anyway, but I've gotten pretty good at resisting those). For the last one (two weeks ago), I took an S day and had a bread roll with butter and jam (that we baked right then & there). For this one -- I'm not sure. I don't want to appear weird, especially since these donuts won't just be sitting around, but will be the main focus of our little meeting. Then again, that would be the third S event this month (the first being said roll, the second being the pint of coke I had to drink for a blood sugar lab at university). Thoughts?

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:56 pm

If you are going to keep going to these meetings and they are going to keep featuring eating, I think you will have to find a way to avoid the food or make it a meal. You don't want to take an S day if they happen every week. I don't say it will be easy. There are some events at which people don't really notice much if others eat, but it sounds like it might be obvious at this one. I feel for ya!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:59 pm

They happen once or twice a month, I think, and don't always feature eating as the focal point. I'll make it an S day tomorrow, I think (S event, rather, since I won't be having any other Ss that day). Not sure about future events of this kind.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:13 pm

Hm. I'm not too happy with how this evening went. I might have been able to get out of eating donuts, but since I had decided to make this an S day in advance, I didn't even try. And I ate way more than I was socially pressured to eat.

Oh well, it was an S day, so I'll just learn from it and not beat myself up over it.

What I'm quite proud of, though: When I made dinner today, a room-mate of mine (I live in a dorm and share a kitchen with 15 other girls) asked me if I had tried our other room-mate's home-made cookies yet. They were chocolate chip

but surprisingly, even though I was pretty hungry, I didn't even consider taking one. It was like, "It's a week day, and I don't snack on week days." Pretty good!

21 days down, woo

I don't think I've lost any weight, but that's okay with me for now. Heck, even if I didn't lose a single pound on this, I prefer it to what I was doing before.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:12 am

Anoulie, I love this post. Great attitude toward both your struggles and your victories!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:22 pm

Thanks, automatedeating.

White-knuckling it again. I should stop buying treats for the weekend on Fridays. Right now, there is a bunch of my favorite candy about a foot away from my hands (inside my desk) and there's still an hour until dinner.

But I really want this month to stay green/yellow; I've promised to buy myself something nice if I succeed in this

jw · Post by jw » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:57 pm

They are predicting a snow storm tomorrow, so I bought some sweets today (nut rolls and poppy seed rolls) -- I know exactly how you are feeling! I just finished lunch and they are calling my name!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:44 pm

I ate way too much on my S days

But at least I'm limiting that kind of excess to two days in the week now. I think next weekend I'll try a different approach: One treat between breakfast and lunch, one between lunch and dinner etc. Not trying to make any hard and fast rules, but I'd like to enjoy my Ss more.

Kind of impatient for weight gain, but there's no better way to eat that I know of (that works for me), so I'm sticking to this.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:58 pm

Hi guys, negative qualification here

I hosted a bible study group at my dorm tonight, people brought lots of sweets as usual, I resisted as usual, but then they left and didn't take their stuff with them, so I ended up eating a box of cookies all by myself

Another box I put into the kitchen for my room-mates to eat, so that's a minor success

So I had 26 consecutive green/yellow days under my belt, and now I'm off to at least 21 more!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:43 am

Your compliance is really impressive. Congratulations!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:55 pm

Ugh. This is hard. I don't like this at all. But you know what they say... Quitters never win, winners never quit. Wearing my tightest skirt (that fits me) today and it is uncomfortably tight but it was relatively loose in August... way too destroy all my illusions about losing weight, skirt.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:53 pm

Heck yes.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:15 am

Impressive! Well done!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:24 pm

Hi! It's your old friend, negative qualification again!

Was already having a semi-hard time yesterday, which I would've gotten over, but then I discovered some chocolate (3.5 oz) in a cupboard that I had forgotten about previously... so I ate that. Wouldn't have mattered, it's just 530 kcal and I hadn't had lunch because I woke up so late, but of course, I bought myself a pastry and then some cookies and a quart of milk and ugh.
And today after lunch, I had these inexplicable cravings again and gave in and got myself another pastry. And it's just 2 pm. Great.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:23 am

I know these days! If at all possible try to remember that you are just one single plate away from being back on track. You can do it!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:39 pm

What the heck. I've just had an almost entirely green month, but this week was entirely red.

Oh well... back in the saddle on Monday, I guess.

bjalda · Post by **bjalda** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:43 pm

Hey Anoulie!

Hm... I'm asking myself if you might be too rigid on your N days?
Your body/mind could feel that you don't enjoy yourself during the week,
which makes it very hard to follow the rules for a longer period of time.

Please enjoy your N days!

That's most of your days (if you are about to do this your whole life)!
They can be soo great! Even better than S days.
Celebrate your breakfast and allow yourself the overloaded plate once in a while! That's fine.
And don't forget to treat yourself to a nice glass of wine/your favourite meal or other N-day legal goodies...

I thought of that because this pattern is just much too familiar to me.
When I don't enjoy my N days enough (because I get over-ambitious and want to see results too quickly) I get exactly this:

Perfect compliance for a while (up to 3 months maybe) and afterwards its all shot to shit againg (sorry).
I have had that so many times now... it really makes me sick just to think about it.

And if this could be the reason that you are having a hard time, I just want to let you know: you are definitely not alone!
But I am learning. The past 3 months have been very peaceful, without any ups and downs.
Just because I let myself have the occasional BIG (!!) meal.
I allow myself any drink I want (except for juices because I don't like them).
Milk, Latte macchiato, GlÃ¼hwein, even hot choclate, because I just love it on cold days and it always makes my tummy feel full and satisfied

I think I can live with that (for a loong time).
Of course, I can't be too sure now, but I feel much more confident than when I was trying to be very strict with my N days (only tea, water and black coffee between meals).
I didn't want this strictness my whole life. So I needed to change something.

And of course, it is slower, the weight loss, if you let yourself have all that. Really.
And it CAN be annoying if all you want is to loose 5kg for your ideal weight (in my case).
But I AM losing the weight! I can see that! (You don't want hot chocolate every day.. after all)
But this little freedom helps me so much to build the habit, because I need to enjoy this system in order to stick with it.

And about your social situations:
Once in a while, when I really can't take the social awkwardness, I give in and eat the stupid 'socializing cookie', even though I don't really want it.
I'll have a red day, it looks stupid on my habitcal, but somehow I don't feel the need to eat more at home then.
Yes, I think its better to resist it.
But if you are like me, it makes more sense to give in to a little bit, than to have those eating sessions at home.
Because I always end up eating more at home (+ when I am alone).
Then I do prefer a red mark on my habitcal (with the knowledge that this wasn't an epic failure).

I hope this helps a little. And if it doesn't: You will find you own way! Don't worry. Even if it takes a lot of time time. But never forget to enjoy yourself (most of the time

). Especially if it is almost christmas!

Have a good week!
bjalda

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:09 pm

This post encouraged me--and i'm sure it encouraged Anoulie too.

I had a latte after lunch today and felt bad about it.....but your post convinced me not to spend any time worrying over it!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:18 pm

Happy New Year, Anoulie!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:26 pm

oolala53 wrote:Happy New Year, Anoulie!

Thank you, oolala! Happy new year to you and everyone else reading this as well!

So you can probably guess by now that me not posting isn't indicative of anything good. I'm in a pretty bad place mood-wise and believe this is due to hypothyroidism (my TSH was 6.93 recently when it's supposed to be 0.27 - 4.2, so that may be the reason) and/or depression. I'm really tired and unable to focus or motivate myself to do things lately (well, it's been that way all through the past semester, so, since October).

This year I wanted to try a more natural approach to losing weight, you know, allowing myself the occasional healthy snack, no S days, etc. but it's so mentally draining. I'd spend so much energy wondering, "Can I have a kiwi? Can I have some frozen yogurt? What do I eat tonight?" and so on. So today I had a full-on binge (lots of toast with nutella and ~ 7 oz of candy bars) and decided to go back to good old No S or at least some version of it. I'll follow No S 7 days of the week, but allow myself one S event on Saturday and one on Sunday. If a family member has a birthday or something, I'll have a slice of cake even if it's during the week, sure.

Recently, I've started to realize I have some serious food/eating/body image issues. I may raise that issue with my GP as well when I see her about m thyroid/possible depression. I cannot have just two pieces of chocolate. I'm probably approaching binge eating disorder here, actually.

So the course of action is: eat three meals a day, no sweets, no snacks, no seconds, except for a (possibly sweet) snack on Saturday and another one on Sunday. Also, get help for my lack of motivation/focus/emotions.

Life is hard, you guys. Listen to me whine while people have cancer or are literally starving or living in a war-ridden country or mourning loved ones.

And by the way, I weighed in at 132.7 lb today (this morning, pre-binge). Heck. Sinnie (who is my height) just had a baby and weighs less than I do. What am I doing to my body.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:21 am

Hi Anoulie,
If something matters to you, it is worth us caring for you and rooting for you. Yesterday I made a casual comment to someone about something that annoyed me, and the lady said, "First-world problem" and rolled her eyes at me. I was a little shocked. Ouch. Anyway, all that to say that if it matters to you, it matters to us!

I am your height and I weigh 137 right now. And I feel like a sexy strong mama! So remember, you can love your body and appreciate what it does for you without being "skinny". In fact, I might be so bold as to say that having a bit more love for your body will be a great impetus for treating it better.

I'm glad you are going to bring up your eating issues with the doctor. I am always posting how much I love counselors, so....... that might be a fun (I'm serious, I think it's fun!) option too.

Happy New Year, glad to see your purple unicorn back!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:03 am

Anoulie, please be careful. That question "what am I doing to my body" and comparing yourself to others is classic eating disorder talk. You are talking like you're obese! you're not, right? (and even obese people have to find a way not to panic about their bodies) Denigrating your body is almost a surefire way to keep the binge cycle going. It is PART of the cycle! Denigrate body- restrict eating- rebel and binge- feel shame and denigrate. Repeat. As night follows day.

The nature of a cycle is that if you can interrupt it at any point, you start wearing down the cycle. Doing it once is not enough, though.

This means all the times you have successful N days without overly restricting your meals, you are interrupting the cycle. Every single S day can also be interrupting the cycle IF you learn to calm yourself afterwards and NOT magnify the feelings of failure and worthlessness if you overeat. It's very much like learning not to give in to WTH effect that's talked about so much on the main board. Thw\e WTH effect is an irrational tactic that often has to be overtly but calmly resisted. Neither eating moderately nor bingeing are reasons to panic.

The overeating part of the binge is not the most damaging part of the cycle. It's the shame and disgust. THEY ARE PART OF THE ADDICTION! THEY ARE ACTUALLY MORE REINFORCING THAN THE ACTUAL FOOD!

Please trust me on this. Sure, i don't have a Ph.D or anything but I have been at this for 40 years and I'm telling you, it is almost impossible to get over a binge disorder while you are actively trying to lose weight. I know that sounds contradictory, but it's true. I have lost while aiming almost solely at reducing bingeing, but it's been slow. Not slower than the 38 years of failure before that.

PLEASE don't try to make your S days so reasonable right off the bat (again) unless in previous bouts you went through the phase of allowing enough free range to feel that you were finally tired of it. Not panicked. Calmly and rationally tired of it. They are very different and the first way rarely has a good outcome.

My issue was definitely binge eating. I knew enough about it that I saw that No S was a great mix of the letting go of food prejudices but some structure to let your body feel what it's like to get enough good food and heal from the pressure of feeling all the time as if you should be eating less without actually dieting.

I had some very dark times in years one and two fearing that I would never have tame S days, but I could not imagine not having the safety valve of eating way too much chocolate or whatever on them. It paid off. Finally, the contrast between the loveliness of N days and the cruddiness of S days motivated me to institute an appropriate mod for S days that made the most sense and which didn't freak me out, even though it was rather strict. But it came out of calmness, not freaked-ness. Once I was ready, it just made so much sense. I still had to go through a bit of the same issues as instituting N days but the process felt obvious and doable.

I run the Living Binge Free team on Sparkpeople, and we just this week had a woman who posted how she finally feels more calm in her eating and reached New Year's without a goal to lose more weight. (She was at her goal.) This took her more than a year, and she admitted at the beginning she despaired of ever getting control. I asked her what she thought were some of the keys and she said in the beginning, she ate big meals and snacks and did not limit her calories. (She didn't use No S specifically, since it's not specifically an NO S team, but I'm pretty sure now she does not snack much now. ) I still think it's preferable to stick to moderate N days and eat generously ON PURPOSE on the weekends until it feels more natural just to put up with the urges without giving in.

The other thing is to realize that when you are feeling depressed, your body is experiencing a distorted chemical imbalance that can impair your judgment and make self-hating thoughts sound true, but they are not. NEVER BELIEVE THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS ABOUT YOURSELF WHILE YOU ARE IN AN ALTERED CHEMICAL STATE, EITHER FROM BINGEING OR FROM BRAIN IMBALANCES. They just aren't true. In fact, (In fact, chronic negative thoughts of self-evaluation are a symptom of certain brain patterns, not of the truth!)

My heart goes out to you!

I haven't read back over your thread and honestly don't remember everything about your history, so I hope this isn't sounding condescending. It's just my years on No S have me seeing more and clearly all the time how this is all fitting together. It really is unbelievably intuitively smart!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:09 am

I've admitted other places that I've been diagnosed for depression, was on meds for it for a few years -before No s-, and now take meds for anxiety (but not when I'm on break from work. My doctor doesn't like that, but I do it anyway.) My first two years on No S were some of the most stressful of my career, and I got to find out that even stress feels better when I surrender to No s, if that makes any sense at all. In other words, I was still in a lot of mental pain, but I did not eat, and it has made all the difference. I didn't have to wait for things to get easy in life; life got easier when I committed to No S. And we're not talking 100% compliance.

Okay, I'm going on and on.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:23 pm

automatedeating wrote:If something matters to you, it is worth us caring for you and rooting for you. [...] Happy New Year, glad to see your purple unicorn back!

Aww, thank you

It really means a lot.

automatedeating wrote:I am your height and I weigh 137 right now. And I feel like a sexy strong mama!

I believe you, but -- well, I don't feel particularly strong or sexy. I weighed in at 134.7 lb today which is so scary and awful and I know this is disordered thinking but that weight is also just a pound and a half below my boyfriend's (who's 4 or 5 inches taller than me) so *insert a smiley that is freaking out here*

automatedeating wrote:So remember, you can love your body and appreciate what it does for you without being "skinny". In fact, I might be so bold as to say that having a bit more love for your body will be a great impetus for treating it better.

You are absolutely right. I just find it really difficult to love my body at the moment, especially since it got sick on me (nothing major, but nothing for which the cause can be found, either, so that sucks). It's just so frustrating that I've been at this (seriously trying to lose the weight I gained during finals at school and my year volunteering abroad) for a year and a half and I've gotten down to 126 lb, then fluctuated back up and now I'm back where it was and I just see no progress at all except me losing my mind.

automatedeating wrote:I'm glad you are going to bring up your eating issues with the doctor. I am always posting how much I love counselors, so....... that might be a fun (I'm serious, I think it's fun!) option too.

Yeah, I got an appointment for Monday morning, which is good, and we also get free counseling at our university, but I haven't had the courage to make an appointment with the counselor yet.

oolala53 wrote:Anoulie, please be careful. That question "what am I doing to my body" and comparing yourself to others is classic eating disorder talk. You are talking like you're obese! you're not, right? (and even obese people have to find a way not to panic about their bodies)

I know this is harmful, but as I said, it's difficult to not freak out over this. I'm a person who likes to be in control, and there's no moment I feel less in control than when I get sad or frustrated and buy myself a box of cookies. And yeah, I'm just between normal and overweight now with my BMI of 24.5. Oh man. I was happily at 21 for a while...

oolala53 wrote:Denigrating your body is almost a surefire way to keep the binge cycle going. It is PART of the cycle! Denigrate body- restrict eating- rebel and binge- feel shame and denigrate. Repeat. As night follows day.

That sounds very familiar, yes.

oolala53 wrote:The nature of a cycle is that if you can interrupt it at any point, you start wearing down the cycle. Doing it once is not enough, though.

This means all the times you have successful N days without overly restricting your meals, you are interrupting the cycle. Every single S day can also be interrupting the cycle IF you learn to calm yourself afterwards and NOT magnify the feelings of failure and worthlessness if you overeat. It's very much like learning not to give in to WTH effect that's talked about so much on the main board. Thw\e WTH effect is an irrational tactic that often has to be overtly but calmly resisted. Neither eating moderately nor bingeing are reasons to panic.

The overeating part of the binge is not the most damaging part of the cycle. It's the shame and disgust. THEY ARE PART OF THE ADDICTION! THEY ARE ACTUALLY MORE REINFORCING THAN THE ACTUAL FOOD!

Thank you. I really needed to hear (read?) this. I knew I'm stuck in this cycle but had no idea how to get out. I tried to invent new eating plans that were more or less based on No S, but of course I eventually caved and it was time for a new plan. I really should make my New Year's resolution not to lose X pounds, but to stick to No S, keep my S days satisfying and not frustrating, and -- most importantly -- NOT freak out when I have a red day or two or five. Because that's what got me in this mess in the first place.

oolala53 wrote:Please trust me on this. Sure, i don't have a Ph.D or anything but I have been at this for 40 years and I'm telling you, it is almost impossible to get over a binge disorder while you are actively trying to lose weight. I know that sounds contradictory, but it's true. I have lost while aiming almost solely at reducing bingeing, but it's been slow. Not slower than the 38 years of failure before that.

I read this metaphor recently: "People with EDs are trying to solve their mental problem with dieting, but that's like trying to build a brick house by going kayaking. One does not relate to the other. But a couple crossed wires in your brain convince you that if you JUST KAYAK FAR ENOUGH, that house will get built somehow, if you just keep going. People often wonder why an anorexic person can look in the mirror and see skin and bones and not want to stop starving. Haven't they achieved what they want? No, because starving hasn't yet fixed their control issues or family problems or sadness, so clearly they have to keep going. There's no point where you're kayaking down a river and say, "Wait, this isn't working, my house is clearly not getting built." It's always JUST ABOUT TO HAPPEN."
This is so correct and so hard to accept at the same time.

oolala53 wrote:PLEASE don't try to make your S days so reasonable right off the bat (again) unless in previous bouts you went through the phase of allowing enough free range to feel that you were finally tired of it. Not panicked. Calmly and rationally tired of it. They are very different and the first way rarely has a good outcome.

I never really panicked because of my S days, only N day failures caused that to happen. But I did get pretty sick of them. It was always buying similar candy from the grocery store, then eating because a) it was there, b) it's an S day so I'm allowed, c) I don't want it there to tempt me during the week.
How do you guys do that? I live on my own (in a dorm) so it's pretty difficult to share a big box of whatever or nibble on stuff that's available because someone else in the family bought it.

oolala53 wrote:My issue was definitely binge eating. I knew enough about it that I saw that No S was a great mix of the letting go of food prejudices but some structure to let your body feel what it's like to get enough good food and heal from the pressure of feeling all the time as if you should be eating less without actually dieting.

I don't know. I didn't have any bingeing problems before I started No S in September '09, but I guess it got me in the mentality of "If you're gonna have sweets, have all of them at once", especially once I started failing occasionally and fell victim to the WTH effect.

oolala53 wrote:I had some very dark times in years one and two fearing that I would never have tame S days, but I could not imagine not having the safety valve of eating way too much chocolate or whatever on them. It paid off. Finally, the contrast between the loveliness of N days and the cruddiness of S days motivated me to institute an appropriate mod for S days that made the most sense and which didn't freak me out, even though it was rather strict. But it came out of calmness, not freaked-ness. Once I was ready, it just made so much sense. I still had to go through a bit of the same issues as instituting N days but the process felt obvious and doable.

That really gives me hope. Thank you!

oolala53 wrote:I run the Living Binge Free team on Sparkpeople, and we just this week had a woman who posted how she finally feels more calm in her eating and reached New Year's without a goal to lose more weight. (She was at her goal.) This took her more than a year, and she admitted at the beginning she despaired of ever getting control. I asked her what she thought were some of the keys and she said in the beginning, she ate big meals and snacks and did not limit her calories. (She didn't use No S specifically, since it's not specifically an NO S team, but I'm pretty sure now she does not snack much now. ) I still think it's preferable to stick to moderate N days and eat generously ON PURPOSE on the weekends until it feels more natural just to put up with the urges without giving in.

I will have to check that group out. Thanks for sharing that woman's story. Also, "more than a year" doesn't sound so bad to me anymore now. I just have to accept that it won't happen overnight, but so far, nothing really improved, and slow progress is still progress.

oolala53 wrote:The other thing is to realize that when you are feeling depressed, your body is experiencing a distorted chemical imbalance that can impair your judgment and make self-hating thoughts sound true, but they are not. NEVER BELIEVE THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS ABOUT YOURSELF WHILE YOU ARE IN AN ALTERED CHEMICAL STATE, EITHER FROM BINGEING OR FROM BRAIN IMBALANCES. They just aren't true. In fact, (In fact, chronic negative thoughts of self-evaluation are a symptom of certain brain patterns, not of the truth!)

Rationally, I know this, but -- chemicals. That's why I'm going to the doctor on Monday.

oolala53 wrote:My heart goes out to you!

I haven't read back over your thread and honestly don't remember everything about your history, so I hope this isn't sounding condescending. It's just my years on No S have me seeing more and clearly all the time how this is all fitting together. It really is unbelievably intuitively smart!

It was exactly what I needed to hear and I'm really grateful that you took the time and put all this thought and effort into this for me. You're awesome

I'll report back how things are going.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:35 pm

Ah, maybe I should talk about how my day went, too. I managed to get up at 7 am as I should instead of noon as I did yesterday. I think admitting to myself that I have brain problems that need professional help helped me in a way, so now I have this new mission ("fix brain") which is good.
I still have to study for that stupid biochem exam on January 20 which sucks and evokes bouts of anxiety when I think about it. But I'll slowly get started with the studying.
I woke up not really hungry because of all the stuff I ate yesterday. For breakfast, I had two pieces of toast with hummus, three cocktail tomatoes and a dried plum (I have digestion issues on top of everything else). Wasn't really hungry for lunch either, but I went to the cafeteria with friends and had maybe 2/3 of a cheese pizza.
Also, I realized I should probably stop talking to my one guy friend about food and dieting. We're trying to lose weight together, but he has no body image/food/binge/whatever issues at all (he's just a health nut), which is nice for him and all, but then he makes me feel guilty for eating toast for breakfast (what the heck! it's not even white bread, it's whole wheat) and stuff, which doesn't exactly help my messed-up food attitude. But we have this Google document that we share wherein we enter our weights sporadically. Maybe I can get away with doing that less often. I should probably tell him outright, "This is bad for my psyche, I'm quitting" (~ two weeks in, great) as he already knows I have issues.
I'm also going to a concert with a friend tonight, so I won't be able to lie in bed feeling sorry for myself

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:59 pm

Okay, I feel better, except for one thing. I don't think you're able to see the big picture, and I hope you can trust Aunt Oolala that 10 pounds is not a big deal. I know it feels like a good reason to panic and you could come up with all kinds of what you think are legitimate fears. All of us old ladies when through the same thing. THOSE ARE THE CHEMICALS TALKING! The chemicals that want to keep the binge cycle going. Because one part of your brain LIKES the cycle, perverse though it may seem. It does involve some pleasure that it things is worth it. But when you exercise your prefrontal cortex making decisions and taking actions, calmly and rationally, not omg, if I don't do this right, I'm going to DIE! Those two thoughts are each their own drug, so to speak, and you need to take the right "drug."

I'd bet you'd be surprised to find out here how many people started by panicking over ten pounds and went on to gain twenty, thirty, even more. It's also rather shocking how ineffective hating the weight is.

Don't compare your weight to your boyfriend's weight! That's just freaking you out, and that's not working. Don't LOOK for reasons to be ashamed! That feeds the whole thing! If you want to go on a diet, go on a diet of criticizing your body, or even yourself in general, for now. Try to be objective about things." Oh, I didn't get the report finished." True. "Oh, I didn't finish the report. I'm such a crappy student, I'll never get it all done, people are going to think I'm not smart or that I'm lazy, etc." All subjective and honestly NOT helpful nor even verifiable!

I'll admit I'm a bit disappointed that No S did this to you. I'm curious to know before you started how you thought you were overeating. Small meals and snacks all day long? Breakfast and then big dinner?

Or, just forget all about the details and just get back to basics.

I would suggest that you not talk about trying to lose weight with anyone except a counselor. Do not reinforce the idea that it is a central concern in life. Talking about it is a habit in our culture, often even a bonding between women. But humans can share many other interests. Just keep changing the subject, and if you're finding it's hard to have something else to talk about, well, there's the sign you need to expand your attention to other topics! When it comes to food, try to speak about how delicious something is, but don't make jokes about how fattening it is or how hard it is not to eat a lot of it or any of that. And try not to get caught up in other people's hangups. You don't have to talk them out of it. Just keep responding how you think a very kind French woman would. She doesn't imagine that there's any good reason NOT to enjoy food, but also no reason to gorge on it. Food plays a beautiful place in her life, not an adversarial one. But she doesn't try to convert anyone else. She builds her own foundation.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:29 pm

I love this post! I want to copy it on my thread, and just might, if I remember....

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:15 pm

I know 10 lb aren't that big of a deal (more like 15-20, but even that's not a big deal), my messed-up eating is a big deal. I hate this complusive part of my brain far more than I do my body (although I don't particularly like either at this point). It's like I'm mad at myself for such a lack of discipline. As you described in your post, it's not just, "I ate far more chocolate than I should've eaten", but, "I ate so much and I'm never gonna be able to control my eating and I'm never gonna lose this weight but spiral up and up and get so much deeper in this weird cycle and end up 180 lb or more". (Because yes, I know about this dieting cycle.)

oolala53 wrote:I'll admit I'm a bit disappointed that No S did this to you. I'm curious to know before you started how you thought you were overeating. Small meals and snacks all day long? Breakfast and then big dinner?

I wasn't really overeating. I weighed ~ 113 lb when I was 15 and went on an exchange year to the United States. When I came back, I weighed about 120 because of crappy American food (sorry, Americans). But instead of returning to my normal eating habits, I decided to do No S which was in retrospect probably the worst decision of my life. (Am I exaggerating? Maybe. Then again, I haven't made that many bad decisions that had a long-term negative effect on my life.)

Regarding this "not talking to anyone about my weight/diet/eating/etc." -- I don't. Or well, I haven't until a few weeks ago when I figured, "I have not talked about this for such a long time and it didn't help, might as well -- " But nope, that didn't help either. What I've been doing for a long time and should definitely stop is reading so many websites about, "Oh my, isn't it a shame that our culture has such a narrow definition of female beauty nowadays! tsk tsk" and stuff like that when it's still a really sensitive topic to me. So yeah, I'll make sure not to talk about stuff like that to anyone except you guys, my doctor and possibly a counselor, and to not go to any weight-related websites except my check-in. (Even the general questions board on No S is... less than ideal for me to read, as I know.)

Thank you for your post

Now I'll fry myself an egg on toast and have a piece of fruit with it.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:49 pm

Anoulie, it sounds like you'd be better off just going back to your previous lifestyle before bad old America. If you have to drop us to heal yourself, by all means, do it! But it also sounds like you'll benefit from talking to someone else about your tendency (not uncommon and even glorified some places) to let your failures be reasons to evaluate your total self. It's very human and part of the maturation process (still going through it here at 60) to separate our actions from our essence as beings, although even most cultures aren't particularly helpful.

Just try to eat your meals the way you used to. If you find yourself dwelling on this issue, see if you can first let the thought be there, as if it was printed on a large banner held by two members of a marching band passing by. Imagine that someone who doesn't understand English sounds the words out but has no idea what they mean, so it's just sound. It's hard to accept because we take so much of our thinking seriously, but really a lot of it is no more important than a banner at a parade. This takes as much practice as any other habit. It's not as automatic as it is for the mind to constantly produce thoughts and images. But we can't control our minds all the time. Thoughts are continually arising all the time and we can often just let them happen. We can keep doing what we're doing in the moment, and possibly gently bring ourselves back to it. WE feel like we have to get everything settled right now, but it's not usually true.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:47 pm

oolala53 wrote:Anoulie, it sounds like you'd be better off just going back to your previous lifestyle before bad old America. If you have to drop us to heal yourself, by all means, do it!

Ahahaha. Sorry, but if I could, I'd have done that months ago. That was five and a half years ago, though, so I literally do not remember how I used to eat back then. Also: I lived at home, my mom made my food, I still ate meat and I liked a much smaller variety of things back then (no cheese, sauces, condiments or cooked vegetables). Thanks for your mental picture, but that's like telling an alcoholic, "Remember how you used to deal with your problems when you were 15 and didn't drink? Just do that exact same thing again!" Sorry, not gonna happen.

jw · Post by jw » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:41 pm

Anoulie, when I was 15 I had no hips and no breasts -- when I was 16 my hips appeared (my breasts took about 4 more years!) and I suddenly had the illusion I was fat. Don't you think at least some of the weight that caused you to look for a diet may just have been what happens in the early to mid-teens? (Plus all the American junk food, of course!)

Your self-consciousness made you food-conscious in a bad way, which led to dieting, which led to binging, which then led to continued weight gain. I know hindsight is 20/20 and you can't turn back the clock -- but I am really glad you are going to work with someone to try to break that toxic cycle here and now.

It might also be helpful to think about whether you can realistically keep your mid-teen weight as your ideal weight indefinitely without making yourself miserable.

Best of luck -- I hope you will keep us posted!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:08 pm

jw wrote:Anoulie, when I was 15 I had no hips and no breasts -- when I was 16 my hips appeared (my breasts took about 4 more years!) and I suddenly had the illusion I was fat. Don't you think at least some of the weight that caused you to look for a diet may just have been what happens in the early to mid-teens? (Plus all the American junk food, of course!)

Haha, no, I have the worst female figure (just like my mom). All my weight is in my stomach and in September a lady actually asked me if I was pregnant (and I weighed 6 lb less then). Jerk.
But yes, of course everything that followed this (comparatively) tiny weight gain was a complete overreaction which leads me where I am now. And knowing this helps me how?

Also I don't really want to go back to being 113 lb -- that might be nice, but probably not sustainable. 120, even 125 is completely fine. But as everyone's been saying, that doesn't really matter if I keep bingeing/restricting/and so on.

jw · Post by jw » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:45 pm

Anoulie, I misunderstood -- I thought I remembered that you still had 110-115 as goal weight. I am glad you have revised that. Mostly I just wrote to say that I am glad you are going to talk to someone in real life about things and to add my best wishes to the others!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:18 pm

Sorry for snapping at you there, jw. I just found it really frustrating to hear, "This is what you should've done" when it's too late for that now and when there's no real point in figuring out how it all started anymore.

Anyway, my day went well, I had muesli with yogurt this morning and I think this'll continue to be my standard breakfast until I get tired of it. I only stopped because I read that sweet cravings can be lessened by not having anything sweet (not even fruit) before 3 pm. I should stop paying attention to stuff like this.
Lunch was lasagna and a salad (didn't eat much of the latter because of the disgusting sauce); for dinner, I had two sandwiches made with crisp bread (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisp_bread), and I actually felt pretty full after eating the first one (inside which I had put some peanut butter and quark cheese). I still had the other one (same filling) because I could and because I don't like wasting food and I might've regretted it and eaten the stuff I got for my S days today. I also had a banana, a prune and a cup of milk.

So I'm both looking forward to and anxious about my upcoming S days. I bought candy for them as usual, but not as much as usual. My roommate later also gave me a chocolate figurine for helping her with a job application (aka rewriting it on the spot). I'm glad tomorrow's an S day because if she'd given me that on a Monday I would've had a problem.
Anyway, it's 8.16 pm, I'm pleasantly full and ready for my S days!

EDIT: deleted some ED-sounding descriptions of food (how much it weighs and stuff. Away, you destructive mindset!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:22 pm

Anoulie, I have a feeling the healing is happening, and I say that trying not to sound too airy fairy. It can be very hard to see, just like we can't really see what is going on under a scab. I say that as someone very "guilty" of being very entwined in this board and a related one, but I don't claim it's necessary at all. I think people who can get swept away in the flow of their non-eating life as they put the habits in place are as valid of models, if not more so, though I haven't followed their lead. I applaud them for recognizing their own proclivities.

What will we do with our time when we're not eating or worrying about eating? That's a central question. I don't mean we can't look forward to or back on good meals. But in between? I'm still figuring that out. Handling eating hasn't solved that for me. The good news is I didn't have to straighten everything else out first.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:10 pm

That's funny because I always pick at scabs/take them off before they do that by themselves. Not healthy either.

Anyway, I weighed 130.7 lb this morning (well, I woke up at noon, but anyway). I had some toast, hummus and cocktail tomatoes for "breakfast" and some yogurt and muesli for dinner later. In between, I ate all the snacks I had "in store", which left me feeling uncomfortably full but not "OMG what did I do my belly is going to explode" kind of full as I would sometimes feel on other Saturdays. I don't feel really deprived with the snacks being gone now, either. I'm gonna grab a pastry or so at the bakery tomorrow and maybe have some nutella and it'll be enough Ss for me. Now I'm gonna brush my teeth and be done eating for the day

I did feel really tired/exhausted in the evening (still do) despite not really doing anything. Don't really have the energy/motivation to do any studying even though I have nothing else to do. Looking forward to having my thyroid checked out and possibly get counseling.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:49 pm

Your breakfast sounds similar to breakfast in Iran, where I used to live. They had bread (their breads were all different kinds of flat breads), feta cheese, tomatoes and even cucumber. And tea. Every day! I can't even remember now if I did the same or not.

Be sure to congratulate yourself for ending the day not feeling overfull, even though you may not feel that you had to try very hard to accomplish that. Actively admiring and being pleased with that feeling is a good way to let your brain know that you want it again. Ironically, when we get mad at ourselves for overeating, it does NOT contribute to our reducing overeating. Habit theory says to reward any evidence that the behavior was achieved and move on!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:38 pm

Thank you, Oolala! This weekend was actually pretty awesome food-wise -- sure, I didn't eat only when I was hungry or stop when I was full everytime, but that's what S days are for anyway, right? Not feeling painfully full

In non-No-S news:

Glad I'm seeing my doctor tomorrow. I have an exam in eight days, have essentially not done any studying for that and can't bring myself to care enough to actually get started. And it's that way in many areas of my life -- I just don't care. Seems pretty depression-ish to me, and I hope I can have the guts to tell my GP that tomorrow. I only told the receptionist about my thyroid and I'll mention that as well, but at this point I think it's more likely I need therapy and/or SSRIs (anti-depressants).

Hope everyone had a good weekend, and thanks for putting up with me

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:17 pm

Hang in there Anoulie! Meds are never fun but can definitely help. I've been on them at different times. Never long but enough to kind of help me snap out of it. I know there's a stigma attached to depression but remember it's really a physical manifestation so please don't feel the need to apologize for it.

Glad your weekend is going well!

Linda

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:37 pm

Be brave and tell the doc! S/he wants to know.

I just listened to an online teleclass by a fantastic woman named Barbara Sher, a book of whose I read decades ago. Her specialty is coaching people to get going on important projects to them. She is so down-to-earth! She was talking to someone who was describing similar feelings to yours. She said when a person feels like that, nothing is going to sound good to them to do, and they do need to choose to do some things, for limited times, whether they feel like it or not as "medicine." She recommended volunteering with or helping other people or animals- things that have a heartbeat!- on a consistent (keep it short, if limited by time) basis because in these situations, there is a chance to get appreciation from another being, and isolation is tiring.

Not sure if that would help. Your issue has a time limit because you have a deadline!

Glad you feel you had a reasonable S day. I ate very light yesterday because I didn't really have much hunger (but I still wanted to eat!). It was kind of hard, but I had done it the other way, eating more because I actually felt like eating more even though I wasn't hungry, and hadn't been happy with that. I had to push to give myself the contrast. I have a feeling I'm still going to have to play it by ear. I struggle with having time but not being willing to do many tasks I need to be doing. I still want to eat at those times. It's an ongoing issue which I don't think No S can fix. I can't expect it to show me how to spend the time I'm not eating!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:29 am

Well, I just had my thyroid looked at (ultrasound; looked normal) and blood drawn and I can call in tomorrow for the results. Told the doctor I'd been feeling tired/exhausted/lacking in drive for two weeks or so and about my formerly high TSH, so she did an ultrasound, told an assistant to draw some blood; then I was told to call the office tomorrow for results and wished a nice day. So depression didn't really come up. I mght actually call a counselor anyway.
Re: that exam: I have five topics to be studied, and a presentation to prepare. My plan is to do the presentation today, and one topic per day after that, then do some mock exams on Sunday. I'd better not fail this.

Oh yeah! Food. Had the rest of the hummus on toast with tomatoes and prunes again. Maybe I'll make falafel for lunch, or go to the cafeteria.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:19 pm

Good plan preparing for your test.

I'm puzzled why you didn't bring up depression, telling him of your lethargy. A counselor cannot give you medication, and if you have a serotonin imbalance, it can boost the effectiveness of the talk therapy.

At least you're getting the word on you thyroid. It's good to be able to lay some concerns at rest.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:32 pm

Well, I did mention the lethargy and thought I was going to talk to the doctor again after getting my results, but I guess that'll be handled in a two-minute call tomorrow

If it were me, I'd consider depression as a differential diagnosis anyway, and I'll make it easier for my GP by bringing that up myself should the possibility/need arise.
A normal-looking thyroid doesn't necessarily mean its hormone production is also normal, which is why I had blood drawn. She'll also check for anemia.

Went to sleep at 10 or 11 am, then woke up at 2 pm which isn't a good sign I guess, but I didn't get hungry, either. Had some tortelloni with tomato sauce and an apple for lunch at 3, then a whole wheat bread roll with a fried egg, a banana, three cocktail tomatoes and two prunes for dinner at 6:30. Someone had put cookies in the kitchen for everyone to take, but I resisted

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:27 pm

Had some yogurt with muesli and two prunes this morning, and 3/4 of a cheese pizza for lunch. I like that I weigh in every day (I just write it down in a little pocket calendar) because it gives me more of a sense of control, and I can see the fluctuations and stuff.

Looks like my thyroid is only a little off, but I seem to be pretty anemic

Which would explain me being tired all the time. I will just continue taking my supplements, but filling up my iron storage will take some time (2 or 3 months).

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:08 am

It's good you found out there wasn't something more serious.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:50 am

oolala53 wrote:It's good you found out there wasn't something more serious.

Yes, I'm glad.

Now I probably won't post here every day, but I'll definitely keep you guys updated once a week or so to tell you how things are going. In the meantime, I'll stick to the 14 words, use some intelligent dietary defaults, not be an idiot on weekends and try to enjoy life between meals

(Quark cheese and peanut butter is so good together, you guys.)

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:52 pm

Sounds like a good plan.

Remember that nothing can MAKE us pick up the food and eat it. It can make us WANT to, but that's not the same thing.

Good luck on preparing for your upcoming test.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:47 pm

So, I've got some news, some good, some bad, some neither.

Bad news first: I had a failure on Friday

That'll teach me to buy S foods Friday after lunch. I'll do my shopping on Saturdays after breakfast from now on. But at least I stopped myself and didn't end up eating EVERYTHING I had bought.

Average information: This weekend, I ate more than I did last weekend, but it was still pretty tame compared to the S days I had six months ago.

Good news: I passed my exam

even did pretty well on it. Woo!

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:59 pm

Congrats on test!! Failures will happen and fairly tame S days overall seem like pretty good news to me.

Linda

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:50 pm

I don't see any bad news there, Anoulie.

red days will happen.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:42 pm

Congrats on your test! And for not letting WTH take over.

I used to buy stuff on Friday and wait until midnight to start stuffing. I don't recommend that.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:52 am

oolala53 wrote: I used to buy stuff on Friday and wait until midnight to start stuffing. I don't recommend that.

Hahaha, oolala, that made me laugh out loud.

Anoulie, seems like you are doing well! Congrats! And yes, well done on containing WTH on that Friday.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:25 pm

Thanks, everyone! All green days this week so far! Didn't have any major difficulties on Monday and Tuesday, but today, I woke up late and decided to skip breakfast, which was probably a bad idea, and someone had put some cake in the kitchen to share... but I resisted.

Feeling pretty good about myself, haha.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:42 am

Yesterday was easy, but this morning someone had left a chocolate Santa Claus in the kitchen to give away, and -- I ate it. Not planning on having any other Ss today, though, and it was only 2 oz, so ... it could've been worse. Fridays suck

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:43 am

hahahaha! Well, you know what: congrats on containing that red and I guess leaving a chocolate santa out on a friday is especially tempting!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:33 am

Thanks! I briefly contamplated getting some sort of pastry at the bakery on my way home, but it would have felt like failure #2, so I didn't. I'm also going to weigh in tomorrow and would hate to see I've gained another pound before the weekend even started.

What I also realized today: In the past, it wasn't my red days that made me gain weight. Not the fact that I had an S on a weekday without planning for it.
What made me gain weight was giving in to the WTH effect when I had failed, and giving myself "unconditional permission to eat" on days that were already red without even feeling good about it. If I don't give in to the WTF effect anymore, I can lose weight even if I have a couple of failures a month.

Edited to add: My weight was 131.6 lb this morning. I'd like to get under 130 relatively soon, but I'm just letting No S take its course now.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:31 am

Now look at that. I actually lost a little bit of weight (weighed in at 131.2 lb this morning). Just think what would've happened had I started eating everything in sight just because, "Oh well, I failed already, I'll start fresh on Monday."

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:17 pm

Exactly! A little bit of snacking is not going to ruin the benefits of NoS.

. The WTH effect can!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:10 pm

Now that I can resist the WTH effect, I seem to find it more difficult to resist Ss -- yesterday, there was cake in the kitchen, and chocolates because it was someone's birthday. I had some of the cake, and some chocolates, but then I brushed my teeth and it was as if it had never happened. Still lost a pound overnight, but that's probably just the S day weight.
Anyway, even though it's nice that I don't eat all the things after one small failure, these small failures add up as well. That's why I'm committing to 21 N and S days today (no F days). Incidentally, my boyfriend is visiting in 21 days (we're long-distance), so that gives me an exact timeframe.
Hoping to weigh 130 lb or less on Saturday

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:02 pm

What are F days?

Consider just hoping to be Vanilla compliant by Saturday. If you are looking for the scale to be the reward, you will be on shifting ground. Facing down those urges to make the small fails will be the best prep for adjusting your meals downwards, if needed. Lay the FOUNDATION for losing.

On another board I'm on, we sometimes come online after a meal and commit to Vanilla until the next meal. It's more complicated than habitcal, but sometimes, it feels necessary. And it helps!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:53 pm

oolala53 wrote:What are F days?

I always write a letter in my planner - an N for N days, an S for S days, and an F for failures.

Regarding the scale vs. habit issue: I think it's a semantics thing. I don't like to say, "I hope I will stick to Vanilla No S" or "I hope I will study all day tomorrow" because that makes it sound like it's out of my control and based on luck. My weight isn't really controlled by me (well, it is, but not predictably down to a tenth of a pound), so I feel like I can say I hope to be at a certain weight at a certain point -- but if I'm not, I'm not gonna beat myself up over it.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:57 am

Today might be an NWK S day -- my friends and I are going out to a cafÃ© to celebrate our passed test.

Things are going well otherwise

Yesterday was an easy N day.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:41 pm

Regarding "hoping," got it. Commit to Vanilla and hope for the best.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:32 am

Well, almost a month of No S is over and it looks like I lost about a pound (132.06 to 130.95 lb). To be honest, though, I don't really care about the speed of weight loss at the moment... of course, I'm impatient, but I'm also so happy with being successful at basic plain Vanilla No S right now that I don't want to endanger that with any extra mods that'll just make me fall off the wagon. Right now I just want to focus on keeping the next 18 days green.

lpearlmom · Post by **lpearlmom** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:13 pm

Absolutely! I think you have your priorities straight. Peace with food before weight loss. Not that you have to completely give up your desire to lose a few pounds but just not at the cost of a positive relationship with food. With nos we can have the both but yes does require some patience. So worth it though.

Keep up the good work. You're doing awesome!

Linda

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:42 pm

Kudos!

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:28 pm

Thanks, guys!

It's now almost 3:30 pm and my S day has been rather tame so far. I had a chocolate bar and a piece of cake after breakfast (it was someone's birthday again), then didn't eat anything until I had lunch at the cafeteria (veggie burger, fries and some sort of pudding), and only then did I go grocery shopping and bought my usual sweets. Not too many, either

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:36 am

The week's been green so far and my weight was 129.6 lb this morning!

and it's only Friday.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44 pm

The weekend was okay, so were Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, but this evening I went to a gathering of some friends, there were snacks on the table, definitely not S worty, but I took two candy bars and half a pancake. Not too bad, except then I got home and submitted to the WTH effect (three sugar cookies, two PB&J sandwiches, two pieces of crisp bread with honey). Ugh, I suck.
Ah well. Mark it and move on.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:54 am

Your post is a charming combination of self-hate and self-support. You went back and forth in your last two sentences. I am proud of you for saying, Ah well. mark it and move on!

Also.....the food you described--much of it was just your dinner, right? That doesn't sound like much of a WTH effect. it sounds like you overate for dinner. it happens.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:28 am

automatedeating wrote:Your post is a charming combination of self-hate and self-support.

Yeah, I tried to stop the self-hate and start the self-support at the end. I did mark it -- now I have to move on. Good thing is I'll be at school all day and presumably without many temptations. Bad thing is I weighed in today and I gained a pound since yesterday which puts me 2.2 lb over what I weighed last Friday and almost back to my starting weight of the beginning of January. Now I just have to keep calm and carry on. Could I freak out, restrict and/or binge as a reaction to this? Sure. Would it be helpful in any shape or form? Quite the contrary. So: Keep calm and No S on.

automatedeating wrote:Also.....the food you described--much of it was just your dinner, right? That doesn't sound like much of a WTH effect. it sounds like you overate for dinner. it happens.

Nah, not really. I had dinner before I went to that gathering, than had a few snacks there, then I got home at 11 pm and started WTHing. And I don't eat jelly or honey on N days (let alone sugar cookies).

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:20 pm

Hey Anoulie,

Kind of a random thought, but what about reading your old threads/checkins for motivation? Yours were always a source of inspiration for me because you did Vanilla like a star. I actually used your meals as a guideline for what someone our height needs to eat to be at a certain weight. I think I might re-start vanilla...I say that hesitantly because I never stick to it...but it reminded me of your old check-in and how much guidance it provided to me back then. You are doing great - don't let a slip up determine anything - keep going.

Anoulie · Post by **Anoulie** » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:27 am

I don't know, Sinnie... I really don't want to spend too much time thinking about No S. I either stay on track (which is most of the time) or I don't, and when I don't I just mark it and move on. Thinking about dieting too much is just what I don't want to do, which is why I'm doing No S.

Speaking of marking it and moving on, that worked well yesterday. I actually managed to refuse a few snacks that were offered/lying around at church. And I didn't have dinner for some reason... but not because I wanted to restrict to compensate for Thursday. My friends and I met at a cafÃ© at 6 pm to have dinner and just hang out together, but for some reason the waitress never came back after bringing us our drinks, and the conversation was mostly about another mutual friend of ours and all his problems and how he needs professional help and that really upset me and my stomach so I don't think I could've eaten much anyway. Then I went to my church's Prayer Night where a few snacks were around, but they were all sweets and I still wasn't that hungry (I'd had a big lunch), so I just stayed there and prayed and sang etc. until 11 pm, when I went home and it was too late for food anyway (and I still wasn't that hungry).
So today my weight was at 129.85 lb.