Everyday Systems

[stevecooper]

The original diet, and the one Reinhard speaks about in the podcasts and such, looks like this;

No Snacks, No Sweets, No Seconds, Except (sometimes) on days that start with 'S'

Whereas the book reads;

No Snacks, No Sweets, No Seconds, Except on days that start with 'S'

So what happened to the Sometimes? I thought it was a useful extra wrinkle, and helpful for s-days. But now we have two creeds. Religious war will errupt between us. There will be a sometimesian sect, and an alwaysian sect, and darkness shall be upon the land! ... um. Yeah.

Reinhard -- did you try to dumb down a 14-word diet for popular appeal?

[2poodles]

That's interesting. I didn't realize there had been a *sometimes* in there. I like that, though. I re-committed this past Friday - right before the weekend S days. And on Sunday, for whatever reason, I didn't feel like having any sweets, snacks or seconds. I almost felt guilty for skipping them! I think the whole point of having S days is to prevent binging or feeling deprived on the N days - and so that this can be a forever way of eating. I don't think the point of S days is to force anyone to eat something they don't feel like....
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2poodles

[paulrone]

SOMETIMES Crusaders, now is the time to RISE UP! To all those who believe in the Alwaysian mantras - you are all blasphemers and heretics! There is only one true and living NoS, and it states "except (sometimes) on days that start with 'S'.
Sometimesians, we must unite to fight the infidels! Alwaysians are infiltrating our churches, our synagogues, our schools, our convenience stores and our sweet shops. They are rebels and troublemakers set on ruining society as we know it.
2poodles, don't give in to the power of "always"! You can resist it! Sometimesians will welcome you with open arms (sometimes).
_________________
-Sometimes Fundamentalist and self-appointed King of the S-day Moderates
"As it is (sometimes) written, so let it (sometimes) be done."

[2poodles]

[stevecooper]

Filthy Sometimesian, with your irresolute 'creed,' never able to make up your mind!

Brothers! Sisters! Plant feet firmly on the ground and say "Lo it is Saturday, the day of Saturn, which is round and yellow and red, like unto a pizza, that I may feast upon it. And on sunday also, which is named for the sun, golden and round like unto a danish. But lo, on the coming of Monday, I shall look to the moon, which is like unto a dinner plate, which is a sign to us that we should sew up our gobs, except thrice daily, and no more." Yea, so it is written in the Great Book, on page 72 (page 122 in the large print edition.)

The blessings of the thirteen words of wisdom be upon you all.

[paulrone]

Misguided Alwaysians, hear me! Know ye not that this rebellion can lead you to only one destiny? Do ye not see the error of your ways? You would follow those leaders of Always into the mists of darkness and bloating and the endless need for antacids. But lo, I admonish thee, to emerge on the opposing shores of this dark mist is to spend eternity on the shores of low-carb land, from which your redemption is an unsure path!
Forsake your gluttonous, slothful ways. Repent and rejoin the true flock. Follow the Sometimes creed and find eternal joy.
Wo unto the Alwaysians, for they shall be thrust down into weight loss meetings!
_________________
-Sometimes Fundamentalist and self-appointed King of the S-day Moderates
"As it is (sometimes) written, so let it (sometimes) be done."

[KCCC]

This is too funny... I think I've been aspiring to Sometimesian, but in practice have been an Alwayser. I'm trying to move towards following a more pure Sometimesian doctrine.

But only sometimes.

[milczar]

too funny and clever!
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The destiny of nations depends on the manner in which they feed themselves. Jean-Anthelme Brillat-Savarin

[3aday]

You know, in the beginning (for me) "Sometimes" was not an option!
Now, the longer I am on No S, "Sometimes" is welcoming, inviting, and attainable!
I love "Sometimes" now!

[stevecooper]

I repent! I renounce the ways of always, and embrace the new faith (sometimes).

Which leads me to wonder... has the Grand Poobah lost his way? Do we need to burn Reinhart in the cleansing flame for his deviation from the True Way?

I think there's gonna be a burnin'.

[paulrone]

[reinhard]

Ah, someone noticed

First off, before anyone gets burned at the stake, let it be known that, as far as I'm concerned, both the 13 and 14 word versions are "canonical." The "sometimes" is always there -- it's just implicit in the shorter version. We're all Sometimesians, just explicit or implicit ones. Think of it sort of like the different versions of the Lord's prayer in Luke and Matthew.

Why on earth did I change this?

Well, for one thing, the 13 word version actually preceded the book. It's not a complete innovation. It's been kicking around the website in a number of places for ages -- like the main page of this bulletin board. Like in the listing for the no s diet in the yahoo directory. I'm not sure if this was intentional, I (and they) probably just forgot it --- but that's sort of the point. It's the easiest to forget word, and what really changes if you leave it out?

Don't get me wrong, I agonized a great deal over that "sometimes." But ultimately the arguments against it carried the day -- at least for the book. I didn't want to change anything under the feet of existing website-inspired nosdieters (I just greyed out the sometimes on the homepage to subtly suggest its ambiguous status).

Arguments against explicit "sometimes"

1. Logically unnecessary -- OF COURSE you shouldn't eat snacks, sweets and seconds "all the time" on S days.

2. Less concise.

Arguments for explicit "sometimes"

1. 13 words may be shorter than 14, but it's sort of a creepy number. Not that I'm superstitious about such things, but it makes it harder to emphasize the brevity of the diet by quoting the word count because, well, 13 just doesn't sound quite right, even though it's shorter. It's almost a matter of aesthetics. Also the number 14 has special everyday systems significance -- 14 minutes of schedualistically insignificant time, etc.

2. An extensive body of interpretive literature has build up around the "sometimes" around the years here on the bulletin board. Perhaps precisely because the word didn't clearly add anything in itself, it gave people an valuable opening for their own ideas. It seems like almost every week someone posts a new midrash on "sometimes."

3. While it may not be logically necessary, it can be a helpful reminder. If we were completely logical we wouldn't need this diet to begin with.

It was a pretty close call. But the shorter and fewer nays turned out to be more compelling, as far as the book was concerned. I do mention the "sometimes" version in the book, so book readers who never make it to the site still do have the opportunity to see if that extra reminder resonates with them.

Reinhard

P.S. I had originally intended to announce this change up front to the bulletin board, but I'm glad I waited: this was vastly more amusing -- thank you, Steve (et al.).

[funfuture]

aaawwww....that makes too much sense....and I so luuuuvvv a good burning.

[stevecooper]

Hey, Reinhard.

I think the best reason for 13 words is probably typographical -- try to fit the word 'sometimes' onto the cover, and you'd have to shrink the font right down, and some of the visual impact would be lost. That's fewer sales and fewer people nosing.

Me, I like the sometimes because it makes it explicit to Mungo that constant snacking is bad, and that the weekends are for discrete culinary treats, not a 48-hour sucrathon.

But that's just me an my old-timee religion.

[paulrone]

Check out my new signature below. I think it says it all.

The quote, I borrowed from The Ten Commandments (Thanks to Yul and Mr. DeMille).
_________________
-Sometimes Fundamentalist and self-appointed King of the S-day Moderates
"As it is (sometimes) written, so let it (sometimes) be done."

[reinhard]

You know, funny you should mention it, because there are actually two versions of the ten commandments as well (one in Exodus, one in Deuteronomy) and although everyone seems to agree that there are ten, and what in sum, they are, there is some disagreement about their division:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

As for the typographical argument -- absolutely, that was decisive. That sort of fits under "con" argument #2, but explains why it's of particular relevance to the book.

Reinhard

[stevecooper]

I'm thinking now that the set of words *almost* form a couplet. There's a lot of poetic potential, with all the alliteration. I can't come up with anything metrical with the original, but did manage this in the attempt...

A single plate
Three times a day,
And have a cake
On saturday.

[paulrone]

Sorry to troll you, Steve, but I've modified your poem:

A single plate
Three times a day,
And sometimes cake
On saturday.

Arrgh! I just couldn't resist!
_________________
-Sometimes Fundamentalist and self-appointed King of the S-day Moderates
"As it is (sometimes) written, so let it (sometimes) be done."

[Too solid flesh]

[GLENDA]

YOU ALL ARE TOO MUCH FUN!!!!! And Reinhard, were you a semenary(sp) student? Thou doest refernce THE BOOK a lot-but it is very amusing & I'm impressed. Love all your evil sides!-glenda

[3aday]

Paulrone! I spit tea out of my nose and mouth when I read:

-Sometimes Fundamentalist and self-appointed King of the S-day Moderates
"So it is (sometimes) written. So it is (sometimes) done."


I almost choked to death laughing!

[resting52]

This post was going on just before I joined. What a hoot! The best laugh I've had in days.

Resting

[LA_Loser]

This is great--I had missed it somehow in my "back reading" when I started. It's a great companion thread to go along with Reinhard's "what do YOU mean by SOMETIMES!"

Thanks for bringing it back to the top. Very timely during this season when we have multiple opps to "be idiots!"
_________________
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming on an LA Winner.

[Boa Vista]

This thread put a smile on my face! In my quest to cast away the ways of the Alwaysians, I have found myself here just in time to prepare for my first three day weekend. Since I'm less than two weeks into this, I fear losing my footing, and falling back into my old ways of snacking mindlessly.

I am trying to learn the way of the Sometimesian, and crave more word of that creed.

[Thalia]

Oh my gosh, this thread is lovely.

[~reneew]

Hillarious! It makes you think! I read it without the (sometimes) and I took it as a ticket to an S-travaganza weekend. I have been acting more like a native Usuallian.. not really a alwaysian and certainly not a sometimesian, which seams the best approach. I need to change my nationality, which may be hard since I come from a long line of alwaysSdaysians.
_________________
The best spice is hunger.
Please pray for me!

[guadopt1997]

What I remember seeing somewhere on the subject of S-days that I just love is "DON"T BE AN IDIOT".

I'm often an idiot on Saturdays but clean up my act on Sundays, what with weighing in on Mondays. Maybe over time I will be less of an idiot (in more weighs than one).

[LA_Loser]

Yeah, I love this thread too--and it directly relates to a lot of the issues that people have noted lately. The SOMETIMES was always a part of the "mantra" until the book was published. It still appears on the NO S home page and within that page is the original comment from Reinhard about not being an idiot.

Even the fridge magnets and coffee mugs have the SOMETIMES included on them.

For those who haven't checked out the No S Glossary page of one-liners and zingers that people have come up with, look at this thread:

http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3883

So enjoy this long weekend. . . and remember that three S days in a row are totally OK--especially if you remember the word SOMETIMES!

Now DON'T BE AN IDIOT!!!
_________________
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming on an LA Winner.

[Nichole]

I have reinstituted sometimes, meaning NEVER (with occasional exceptions), with great success the past two weekends. I don't feel out of control this way. Yay!
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"Anyone can cook." ~ Chef Gusteau, Ratatouille
Trying to slowly GAIN weight for baby! Due 9/6/10.

[Vigilant2010]

Best thread of all time!
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Blogging my way to a healthier lifestyle at http://www.21days-at-a-time.blogspot.com

[~reneew]

This deserved a bump up too!
_________________
The best spice is hunger.
Please pray for me!

[DC++]

I would like to weigh in on the side of the Sometimesians. I think that the "sometimes" adds a lot. It makes clear that although treats are OK on S-days, moderation is still the guiding principle.

[StrawberryRoan]

Great thread,

and I agree that Sometime is sometimes enough.

[bonnieUK]

Love seeing this thread get re-bumped. It reminds me of a Dr Seus story I read as a kid about a war between one group who butter the top of their bread and a group who butter the bottom of their bread

p.s. I'm a sometimesian & a butter side upper

[DC++]

Reminds me of the Big-endians and Little-endians in Gullivers Travels. Which is an excellent book by the way.

[guadopt1997]

I'm an alwaysian at this point but I need to become a sometimesian. This past 3-day weekend was horrible. I was an allthetimesian. I was thinking this morning that my lack of control even kind of sapped me of my enthusiasm for no-S. But if I weren't on no-S, I'd be allthetiming even more!

[reinhard]

I'm fond of this thread, too.

I already see the title for my next book:

"No S Diet II: Return (or Revenge?) of the Sometimesians"

or maybe:

SOMETIMES: the no s diet secret "they" didn't want you to know

Reinahrd

[Bushranger]

^ Second title will sell a million copies. Conspiracies and "they" are money in the bank.

[enmilto]

Hi Reinhard,

Sorry to say this, but I am still struggling with the "sometimes" S days. Last Saturday, just 18 days into the diet I reverted to my pre-nos diet permagrazing - permasnacking ways. It actually scared me as in What was I thinking? I was better on Sunday and yesterday, Monday, I was back with the 3 moderate meals a day.

Thanks for the diet. It's keeping me in line and I think I have the habit down.

Ellie

[LA_Loser]

Ellie,

I certainly wouldn't stress right now about your S days lacking the sometimes label. If I'm reading your posts correctly, you've only been establishing your No S habits 19 days. . .as you will hear from many people probably, the first thing you need to do is to keep your N days green for a significant period of time and don't worry at all about the "quality" of your S days. . . Once you have your N days down really really well, THEN you can begin to concentrate a bit on the S days.

Certainly it may not mean a fast loss and you have to just trust the process and not worry about undoing any progress you have made during the week. The habits eventually kick in and you will find that your S days truly will level off naturally (I know--hard to believe, but I'm living proof).

I recall last July 4 moderation was not a part of my S day celebration! But this last weekend, I realized after that fact that I had not stuffed myself and was not miserable as we walked over to the fireworks! A very happy feeling indeed. I did have dessert and snacks and tiny seconds but it didn't appeal to me at all to be an idiot that day!

So take your time, let your habits take hold and hang in there! And welcome!
_________________
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming on an LA Winner.

[enmilto]

Hi La Loser,

Thanks for the encouragement. Prior to the nos diet, I was on a very strict calorie counting diet. Miserable. I love the nos diet. I will focus on the nons days during the week and not worry about S days. I trust your words that the S days will even out eventually. I'ts a little like I'll believe it when I see it, but I have faith.

Ellie

[LA_Loser]

Yep--it's not like you won't occasionally go off the deep end. . . once you get those N days green for a long stretch of time, you may want to think about your S days in terms of keeping them similar to N days but allowing yourself dessert or appetizers, etc. without eating so much that you feel miserable afterwards.

But for now--just keep your green days green! Keep up the good work!
_________________
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming on an LA Winner.

[~reneew]

Here ya go Carole0003. Bumped up for you!
_________________
The best spice is hunger.
Please pray for me!

[mrsj]

I am a proud Sometimesian! I am also a Vanillasian! I adhere to the original Creed and it works for me.
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Nothing is impossible-only improbable.

[enmilto]

Thanks for your reply many months ago. I left the land of the NOS dieters. You read me exactly right. I kept to the diet for 19 days, almost 3 weeks. On weekends I didn't eat that much extra, maybe 800 calories, but that's just an estimate. Then it would take me most of the next week to undo the damage of the weekend. I just got frustrated and didn't really believe the system would work for me. Maybe I'll give it another try.

Ellie

[Elspeth]

Such a funny thread! Love the "dogma wars."

Aside from the humor, I think the reason it keeps getting bumped up is that it highlights a problem many of us face on No S: namely, weekends. Three months in for me, and I feel like my weekends can still be out of control. They are slowly getting better, however, as permasnacking has come to seem pretty alien to me. Doesn't mean I don't ever do it on S days , of course! It's just that I'm enjoying it less and regretting it more, which I hope will lead to S days that look a lot more like N days, with the occasional treat.

In the beginning it did help assuage my feelings of deprivation to know that weekends were just around the corner. I took comfort in the fact that I could eat anything and any time I wanted during S days. Maybe many of us start out as "Alwaysians" and slowly evolve into "Sometimesians"?

[sophiasapientia]

[KCCC]

Sophiasapienta, I like your questions!

One of my recent "aha" moments is the realization that I have build very good N-day habits... but at the same time, I built some less-desirable S-day habits. They have gradually improved over time on their own. Still, I want to address them directly, but ve-ery gently, so that I don't trip back into "diet-head." (Too many years of dieting makes this a real concern for me.)

Two of the best decisions I've made thus far are (1) stick to the basic 3-meal structure on S-days and (2) PLAN ahead for a treat I'll really enjoy. Those strategies keep me from perma-snacking all day, allow me to enjoy my S-days without "paying" later in terms of discomfort/regret, and just feel good to me.

However, when I haven't planned ahead, I still find myself searching the kitchen for "a treat" and eating a series of things that really don't give me pleasure. I think your questions will address that scenario beautifully. An S-day treat is ALLOWED, but not REQUIRED.

Oh wait... that sounds like Sometimesian doctrine.

[Graham]

I'm new to all this, no track record yet, but after the initial panic over "How will I endure from one meal to the next?" I moved on to coping and accepting the rules, finding comfort and safety in the structure. Then came a new sort of panic: "What will happen on the weekend when I have to decide what to eat?"

The S days are a problem, the "sometimes" bit doesn't seem to help because S days put ME back in charge of the decisions about food, the same ME who eat myself into trouble in the first place. I can't trust me yet.

I can handle the S days as freedom when to eat - but the idea of "I can eat anything I want" seems to trigger a wild hungry child who wants every sweet and buckets of fizzy lemonade, threatening to breach the control I have exerted over the past few years. I always got my "5 a day" and avoided all processed garbage pseudo-foods, except, say for the Christmas Holidays - when I seemed to gain about 1lb a day!

I am hoping, over time, that I too will return to the food sanity No S has brought to many here, and will find the sense in the S days.

(Just now I have this little problem - last Saturday I bought a whole load of sweets and snacks for the child within - and it's Wednesday and I know where they are...)

Oh! - just had a realisation - over all the years when I was a smoker, I think I was using cigarettes to stifle that same wild, hungry child. It seems like that was a problem I never actually solved - and here I am again, with a new chance: might I get it right this time?

Regards, Graham

[NoelFigart]