Info re: Genes-Environment-Obesity-Maintenance

[BrightAngel]

Below is a link to a very interesting and informative Thread
which I discovered inside a Maintenance forum.
I think anyone who reviews the comments within it will find them helpful.

http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/living- ... nance.html

[connorcream]

Howdy,
Just a quick thank you for posting this on a topic I have wondered about. After I finish reading, I will respond more fully but not sure when that might be.

[Kathleen]

BrightAngel,

Yes, it is interesting. Since I had already been a successful long-term dieter (until 2002), I really have focused on maintenance rather than success at losing weight. As I once told my father, "The trick isn't getting married. It's staying married!" There are lots of opportunities to get married, just like there are lots of ways to lose weight, but the real trick is who you marry and how you live so that you are happy together! With dieting, my goal has not just been to drop pounds. It's been to find a way to lose weight and maintain that loss without making weight maintenance the focus of my life.

With dieting, what has motivated me to look for a way to lose weight without "portion control" was the book The Obesity Epidemic. Here is an excerpt from page 10:

"Even the most motivated patients have difficulty losing a significant amount of weight and keeping it off. Many people can maintain a loss of ten or twenty pounds by watching what they eat or exercising more; few can sustain a loss of fifty, 100, or more no matter what the technique. The reason for this difficulty lies with the body’s weight-regulating system, which works to keep the body at a certain preferred weight, or set point. If you gain weight much above your set point, the extra fat stores produce more leptin, which acts as a signal to your brain to reduce your appetite and rev up your metabolism until your weight returns to normal. Conversely, if you lose weight much below your set point, your brain responds by increasing appetite and decreasing metabolism…Thus when an obese person loses fifty or 100 pounds, the weight-regulating region of the brain interprets the loss as a sign of a major problem and responds accordingly. The appetite is set on high, the metabolism on low. Doctors who have studied the so-called “reduced obese†– patients who were formerly obese but who have dropped their weight to near-normal levels – find that they share many psychological traits with victims of starvation. They think constantly about food, for instance, and they are deeply hungry in a way that a single big meal cannot assuage. If a fat person is to lose a significant amount of weight and keep it off, he must, in essence, maintain himself on a starvation diet."

Those are the most chilling words I have ever read about weight loss. A shorter version of this excerpt is: "You're doomed!"

I don't believe it. I think there's a way out of the obesity trap, and I think on-off dieting (like No S) is the way out.

Kathleen

[connorcream]

Howdy,
What a treasure trove of information.
Gratis,

[BrightAngel]

With dieting, what has motivated me to look for a way to lose weight without "portion control" was the book The Obesity Epidemic. Here is an excerpt from page 10:

"Even the most motivated patients have difficulty losing a significant amount of weight and keeping it off. Many people can maintain a loss of ten or twenty pounds by watching what they eat or exercising more; few can sustain a loss of fifty, 100, or more no matter what the technique. The reason for this difficulty lies with the body’s weight-regulating system, which works to keep the body at a certain preferred weight, or set point. If you gain weight much above your set point, the extra fat stores produce more leptin, which acts as a signal to your brain to reduce your appetite and rev up your metabolism until your weight returns to normal. Conversely, if you lose weight much below your set point, your brain responds by increasing appetite and decreasing metabolism…Thus when an obese person loses fifty or 100 pounds, the weight-regulating region of the brain interprets the loss as a sign of a major problem and responds accordingly. The appetite is set on high, the metabolism on low. Doctors who have studied the so-called “reduced obese†– patients who were formerly obese but who have dropped their weight to near-normal levels – find that they share many psychological traits with victims of starvation. They think constantly about food, for instance, and they are deeply hungry in a way that a single big meal cannot assuage. If a fat person is to lose a significant amount of weight and keep it off, he must, in essence, maintain himself on a starvation diet."

Those are the most chilling words I have ever read about weight loss. A shorter version of this excerpt is: "You're doomed!"

I don't believe it. I think there's a way out of the obesity trap, and I think on-off dieting (like No S) is the way out.

I also own and have read that book,
and agree completely with the author (David Kessler, MD, former FDA comissioner).
Those who know my history are aware
that I've been dieting since I was 9 years old....which is a 58 year period,
so I am blessed with a great deal of personal experience, and some of it has been quite a Success.
During that time period I've also studied and watched a great many other people re this issue.

On page 1 of the above-listed link, someone known as MrsJim,
made the following post:

I think it's kind of like people who have gone through severe accidents where they have lost an appendage and have to learn to live using artificial aids. Anyone remember that guy, Harold Russell (he played Homer in the classic 1946 film The Best Years of Our Lives - one of my all-time favorites - and won 2 Oscars for his role) - during WWII he got in a training accident where both of his arms were blown off at the elbows - he lost his hands and forearms. The Army fitted him with artificial arms - basically hooks that he had to LEARN through lots of time, trial, and error - to manipulate. He could have spent the rest of his life sitting on his butt, being depressed and feeling sorry for himself...but instead one of the first things he did was star in an Army training film about his rehabilitation...which was seen director William Wyler who cast him in The Best Years of Our Lives. Mr. Russell used his newfound fame to advocate for the disabled and disabled veterans - he just died a few years ago.

Anyway...he didn't sit on his butt and moan about how unfair life was to him. You take the cards you're dealt and do the best you can, with a POSITIVE ATTITUDE.

I think that ATTITUDE is a major 'make or break' factor with maintenance. Accentuate the positive! That's my motto anyway
But ..this is GOOD STUFF!!! And you know, I think that KNOWLEDGE is a huge key. It might not be what people WANT to hear but it's IMPORTANT to know this!!

I aso agree with that statement.
Once I learn the Realities of Life, I need to ACCEPT them and move forward.
The Law of Gravity exists. I can't simply jump off a roof and fly.
Whether or not I agree with the Law or not doesn't change that fact.
However, first I need to learn the existence of a fact,
and then I have the power to choose to ACCEPT a fact
and deal with it in a Positive way.

I think that following the No S Diet is a Positive way that is available to deal with Weight-Realities
... but one needs to understand what the Realities are...
and to put them together with Reinhard's words.
"Sometimes" and "Don't be an Idiot", in essence, involves portion control.

[Kathleen]

Yes, BrightAngel, "Don't be an idiot" is part of Reinhard's program, and I disregard it. I allow myself to be an idiot with the hope, perhaps completely false, that a few stomach aches will cure me of idiocy a lot better than willpower will.

Time will tell. I lost some time because of impatience. Even on this diet, I have tried portion control, and it has backfired in a big way. Like you, I've dieted a long time -- since I was 17, and I'm now 51. I know that overall calorie expenditure must decrease in order for me to lose weight. Time will tell if these very modest rules for eating help me to lose weight. If not, well, at least I've had a relatively calm year. I am so so so sick of the stress of dieting!

Kathleen

[connorcream]

Howdy,
I wonder about the Leptin part of the equation. I take natural Progesterone for hormone balance and Magnesium for sleep both from Standard Processes. They have been so helpful in each instance so I am open to the possibility of Leptin helping as well.

Knowing my calorie limits, as of now, this could change over time, and knowing the menu's coming up, I am choosing today to have a salad at supper and a very low calorie day for me around 807 cal (still haven't portioned out the left overs).

Why, because I know what it is to be thin, it is worth the hassle to get there and I like knowing why it is difficult to stay there. Leptin won't melt the pounds but it might be another help.

BA thanks for your generous posts. For me it has been a Godsend.

[kccc]

This is an interesting post. Thanks, BA. I've always known that I have to pay more attention to eating than some of my friends - overweight and all its associated ills (diabetes, etc.) run in my family. Just how it is...

I like looking at all the "scientific evidence" together. The one that I found most hopeful was this one, discussed earlier. To me, it says that the structure of No-S actually affects your hunger to make maintenance easier.
http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5515

And then there's this, which I take to mean that No-S also changes your brain in ways that help with maintenance: http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic ... scientific

Overall, these studies really speak to what a complex topic this is! I think there's so much different advice on weight loss/maintenance because different things work best for different people - our bodies/history are not all identical. (Which brings us right back to the point of the original article BA cited, of course!)

[masher]

KCCC
Huge thank you for highlighting these two posts! Great to see support for this way of eating.

Always wonderful to see articles that stress the positive - keeps me motivated!

Masher

[osoniye]

BA- Thanks for posting this wonderful information!! It is a little bit discouraging, but validates what so many of us have observed. I want to bump this thread up so other newcomers don't miss it!!

[connorcream]

Glad to see the bump.

I have been wondering about this study and if tendancy is in part due to the body being insulin sensitive in a way those who have not have large weights would have. I am watching this with my own body and realize that small amounts of processed carbs effect my weight much more than the calorie count would indicate.

I do not know if this effect is temporary or long lasting. But it doesn't matter because it is what it is. All I need to know is how my body reacts and respect that. I am an experiment of 1.

[osoniye]

Yeah, CC, that's the attitude to have, work with what we have.
It's so interesting to me that our bodies can respond differently to carbs not only based on the calories they represent/contribute. It makes me want to get back to my lower carb eating, especially at least on N days. I think it makes a big difference. I seem to be at a plateau for around 6 months, and I think it's from letting carbs back in, playing too big a role in my diet, even the less processed things, but things made with flour are the worst!!

[BrightAngel]

I think one of the biggest and most common mistakes people make
re: food plans, diets, weight-loss or weight-gain etc,
is our general tendency to think we are all the same...
i.e. if that specific behavior works for her/him, it should work for me.

All of the "scientific rules" written by Experts are merely Averages.
We are not only two different sexes, we are also different heights,
different weights, different ages, and different activity levels.

On top of that,
each of us has a different and unique Genetic imprint.
Strong Evidence exists indicating that some people "handle"
or "process" various foods differently than other people.

At times it seems like the body defies the "rules of science"
with regard to weight-loss.
However, there are still many unknowns and variations between individual bodies,
and many hormones and other inner workings of the body have still not yet been discovered.

Science can't prove what is True,
it can only prove that a specific isolated fact in a specific isolated situation is Untrue.
The current "rules" are based on conclusions from past Research studies,
and are not the "ULTIMATE TRUTH"
because:

"The purpose of Science is not to reveal the Truth
but to eliminate error.
We can only approximate truth
by getting rid of as many wrong conclusions as we can."

[Cassie]

This is very interesting but also very disheartening, in a way. Although of course it makes so much sense...

Here's some anecdotal evidence: Last year, after 2-3 months on NoS, I lost quite a bit of weight (from July 2009 until November 2009) on an Atkins style diet. I also did a lot of exercise during that period. Then 2 things changed (in december 2009):

1) I stopped exercising for time/work reasons
2) I 'gradually' added carbs back to my diet, with the intention to gently go back on NoS.

Result? You can guess. I was nowhere NEAR NoS-ing properly. I just piled on the weight, all 8 kilos, at such a quick pace that it was scary. And now here I am again, having learnt my lesson in a very bitter way, back to NoS.

I'm absolutely convinced that maintaining is really really hard. This thread 'proves' it but then most of us sadly don't need proof: we know this truth about maintainance & how hard it is in our bones.

There are also added difficulties that I personally have: I have polycystic ovaries, another proven factor that slows down weight loss.

So here I am, a month of NoS down the line (with no reds!!), still going overboard on S days, with a feeling that this is bound to be a long, long, LONG process....

Not a very happy thought for a sunday night .