Everyday Systems

Okay, I'm probably way over-analyzing this, but I've finally been having success with No-S (meaning I've actually been able to follow the rules), so I don't want to blow it over something silly. My question is, does it count as seconds if you're eating dinner with your family, and there is a plate of raw veggies for everyone to share throughout dinner, and you take a few more to put on your plate after you've already made your plate? I wouldn't have done it, but my dad was urging me to eat more vegetables.

Hi Ruamgirl,
Yeah, the idea is to put enough veggies on your plate in the first place, to create a balance of healthy and heavy stuff so that YOU are satisfied with your meal.
Social eating can be a bear, as people will encourage you to go back for seconds, and they think if it's the healthy or delicious stuff they should be able to tell you to do that. Sometimes it is well intentioned so that you enjoy your meal more, or sometimes they just speak without thinking.
I am assuming you are a grown up. I have no idea if your dad is just showing fatherly concern or if he's a big boundary pusher who wants to be in control. Either way, the vanilla NoS way would be for you to have everything you are going to eat on your plate before you start eating. Often just saying "I'm good" is enough for people to back off. Sometimes it helps me to really try to eat more slowly, so that I don't finish way ahead of everyone, even those who will be going back for seconds. Maybe eat your veggies last and dawdle over them so this isn't a problem, and the rest of your food doesn't get too cold.

I think the No Seconds rule is really about having a definite stopping point to a meal and not as much about the amount of food. The veggies, let's face it, made no difference at all, but having more continues a habit that causes weight gain in most people.

People will start to respect your new habits when they are used to them. Just the other day a friend was about to offer me something and then said, "oh yeah, you're not a snacker." I haven't told this person about No S, but she's just used to me refusing snacks.

Thank you, Sonya. That's pretty much what I figured. I'll go ahead and mark that day as red. At least now I'll know for the future.

HappyHiker, that's a very good point. I think you're exactly right. Thank you for your input.

HappyHiker wrote: People will start to respect your new habits when they are used to them. Just the other day a friend was about to offer me something and then said, "oh yeah, you're not a snacker." I haven't told this person about No S, but she's just used to me refusing snacks.

Wow, this is great. Seriously, I haven't had that moment yet... but I'll give it time.

I also agree with the rest HappyHiker said... the strictness will help you imprint the habit faster. It's much clearer - so it might be easier for you to just refuse in those moments.

I however, am wired differently. I have many times (at least 4 times) given up on No S because of a little technicality like that. I used to be the worst perfectionist ever, so cutting myself a little slack in moments like that has really helped. So if you have a tendency to overanalyze, be hard on yourself and react very sensitive to failure (I also abandoned HabitCal because of that)... I'd say - take it easy.
If extra veggies are your problem, you don't have much of a problem. Seriously.

Good luck on your journey!

Bjalda, I'm very much a perfectionist too. I've had a tendency to quit and start over after messing up, but I'm not doing that this time. And you're definitely right; veggies are not that big of a deal.

I love HabitCal, but it frustrates me how the tiniest slip-up can lead to a red day, when the day was so good otherwise. (As in the case in point.) So you don't use it anymore?

I used to be the worst perfectionist ever, so cutting myself a little slack in moments like that has really helped. So if you have a tendency to overanalyze, be hard on yourself and react very sensitive to failure (I also abandoned HabitCal because of that)... I'd say - take it easy.

This is a great thread! I just wanted to pop in and say I'm following and enjoying the insights. And I too, am a perfectionist in the worst way.

Ruamgirl wrote:I love HabitCal, but it frustrates me how the tiniest slip-up can lead to a red day, when the day was so good otherwise. (As in the case in point.) So you don't use it anymore?

Yes, I also love the idea of HabitCal and how simple it is. But it doesn't go well with my No S habit. For me it seems to turn this sensible way of eating into a (restrictive) diet, with success and failure days (or in my head: good and bad days).

This is the first time I started No S without HabitCal (in februrary) and I definitely feel the difference. Whenever I slip up now (way less then before), I can easily tell myself that my day was great anyways - even though it wasn't perfectly green. Still big picture good enough (and pants are feeling looser). And that's what I am aiming for the rest of my life.
And of course, maybe it's just the many attempts at No S which taught me this lesson...

I would still use HabitCal for other habits though. E.g. my fitness routine (www.12minuteathlete.com workout 3x a week), because there you don't have these 'little' failures that might lead to the 'what the hell, I've already screwed it up'-effect. You either workout or you don't. There is no 'what the hell, I haven't worked out today, so I'll just stop moving altogether for today!'-effect

RE: habitcal. Some people got around that issue this way. They had a separate habitcal for what they determined were small failures and big failures. I think they used yellow for small, still red for big. But it meant they could have a whole week with no red, which bolstered them. It was just until the habit took hold.

But be careful about making it too complicated.

I think one way to train people not to push food is to start practicing refraining from any talk about food except what we enjoy! Offer it to others as appropriate, never insist, and drop any comments about how much anyone eats. And get good at changing the subject!

My mother was raised to say "No, thank you" to a food the first time it's offered, then when they ask you again, you may accept. This was considered polite in her house.
But when she dealt with her Italian future mother-in-law, she learned to accept her offering the first time. If she "politely" refused, she would hear, "Okay..... you don't have to say 'no' twice.

I do not consider having more veggies than what's orriginaly on your plate a second.

I generally allow seconds of vegetables, salad or soup (unless prepared in a really calorific way, like fried or smothered in butter).

A trick I do at social meals (which for me are usually buffet style family meals) is choose a small amount of everything as a taster, so if and when seconds are offered I can take more of what I liked best. An added bonus is that people learn that you are not into big portions and won't try to overload you with food.

I've also learned to politely say no to things I don't want or like, if I'm staying with relatives who are really insistent I eat more of their lovingly made pizza/pie/casserole/cake, I often say I'll have more later when I'm hungry again - which often never happens and they forget about it anyway (or it gets eaten by someone else) occasionally this backfires and a few hours later, a plate of whatever it was is presented to me again with "oh you must be hungry again now, here have a snack"