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Not a good idea

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:26 pm
by jessicasuhr
Hello All -

I had apparantly been a No S'er for about 3 years prior to this one. I had done the same exact diet, without ever hearing of this website, and I stumbled upon it today and would like to voice my opinions about it.

The first point I need to make, is that this diet is not as simple and glorious as the creator makes it sound. I know he/she is out there to help people, but I'm not sure 'helping' would be the correct word. First of all, nothing good comes from depriving yourself of things for 5 days, and then gorging yourself with them for two. It sounds simple because you fool yourself into thinking you're not 'starving yourself' or 'depriving yourself' or even 'dieting', b/c you can make up for it during the two days that you allow yourself to eat those things. The TRUTH of of the matter is (and you can ask my doctors which had to help me out of the mess this diet got me into), is that denying yourself food instills a sense of wanting to eat it more in general. When you add the notion of only denying yourself five days, and allowing yourself to have it the other two (and special occassions), this worsens the effects. If you find yourself successful enough to go the five days without much food, most of the time, one or two things will happen. 1) You are so eager to eat on Sat. and Sun. that you completley overdo it, making it harder to then again, not eat much the following five days, or 2) You find yourself not wanting to eat much on Saturday or Sunday either. The MAIN point is that not eating..... followed by a lot of eating..... is as hard on your body as starving yourself. It's a gateway to an eating disorder and it happened to me. It also makes you feel guilty and terrible, when you mess up and eat during the week. You shouldn't be on a diet like that, and a good healthy diet that will last the rest of your life, will not require deprivation of any kind. I know not all of you will take it to a dramatic level... I just want to let you all know the potential long term effects are not the best.
Some of us want to be super-skinny 'like kate moss', but for most of us, b/c of genetics, the only way to do this is to starve ourselves. This diet is basically what appears to be, a healthy take on an eating disorder.
If you are a person that has enough will power to take all of the bad foods out of your diet throughout the week, and then eat sensibly over the week/end, the diet may work. But for most of you overweight people... to bluntly state it... you like to eat a lot. Not eating during the week will kill you, and eating whatever you want on week/ends will be out of control...... For lack of better words, it's binging and purging. Sound familiar? It is called an eating disorder - the only difference is that this diet does not require you to throw up the bad food, or not eat it all, which makes it OK. It's disguised and its not OK.
Thank You.

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:24 pm
by karinatwork
Hi there!

I'm sorry, but I think you should go back and read the suggestions at again. You might have misunderstood something.

I eat. I eat 3 solid (and with SOLID, I mean SOLID) meals a day. I eat whatever I crave with those 3 meals, and I eat as much as I need to feel full. I am not starving myself. I don't really feel deprived (or at least not more deprived then I would feel on any other diet). The restrictions of this diet are:

No sugar/sweets etc.
No snacks between meals
No second servings of those meals.

If I do choose to stuff my face on the weekend with chocolate that certainly doesn't depend on this diet but on my lack of willpower which would be lacking in ANY diet and ANY way of life I'd be choosing, because I DO LIKE CHOCOLATE. There is no diet or way of life that can ever change that, ever. So I either try to build willpower, or I will stay fat forever.

Read it again, carefully. This diet is simple. (Not sure about how glorious it is, though :).

Good luck to you.

Not a good idea

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:33 pm
by Too solid flesh
I am sorry that you have had such a bad experience.

I think it's a case of horses for courses. This eating plan does work for some people, myself included. I have learned to eat moderately during the last year, and the lack of guilt involved in this practical scheme is a great relief.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:50 am
by Jammin' Jan
I have never binged and purged.

I only have a little treat on the weekends, usually a snack or maple syrup on my pancakes.

I have no desire to look like Kate Moss.

I think Reinhard makes more sense than any number of diet gurus or doctors put together.

I'm sorry you don't have a good opinion of no-s, but I am happy to say that many of us find it very satisfying over the long run. I hope you find what works for you.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:01 am
by joasia
I am interested to know what works if not nos? Have you found something that works? If so, please share.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:27 am
by Dasha
you know, this is very interesting to said you did this diet for 3 years before finding out about this site. but how did you find the site? did you search "diet" and this somehow popped up? obviously, you're still out there looking for some form of weight loss.

with that said, i, too, followed a plan such as NOS before i even found out about it. in 6 months, i lost 35 pounds and was happier than ever!

i think you're misinterpretting the concept here. there is nothing here about starvation. it's more an emphasis on portion control, not deprivation. you can have your chips and your pretzels and your burger.....just in moderation!! yes, the problem for most overweight people is portion control, myself included. i love to eat in quanity rather than quality. i cannot have a couple of bites of cheesecake and then stop....i have to eat it all! :twisted:

and the whole weekend thing is ok, i think. it allows your mind and body to NOT feel deprived.

i think this diet is how you interpret it. the ONLY thing you're really avoiding here is sweets on a daily basis.....which, let's face it, ALL of us (skinny or fat) can benefit from. sweets SHOULD be limited! they are supposed to be thought of as treats and to be in moderation....dessert is not a food group.

i think the eating disorder comes BEFORE the diet, not the other way around. trust, me...been there, done that.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:28 am
by hexagon

Honestly, I don't think No S encourages binging and purging. A lot of folks here do have food issues, so sometimes that happens, but if you read what Reinhard suggests, he doesn't say "yeah, S-days are for going whole hog." Remember, he mentions the word "sometimes" with regards to snacks/seconds/sweets on S-days. People freak out on weekends, especially at first, because they aren't used to allowing themselves any freedom. It's a sort of reactionary thing to all of the crazily restrictive diets out there.

I also don't think that Reinhard makes No S out to be simple/glorious. The deal is that to lose weight, you have to take in less calories than you burn. This usually means eating less and exercising more, which takes work. The No S rules and suggestions about walking/shovelglove are simply some ways to do this. This means modifying one's lifestyle/attitude towards food. Nobody claims that this is simple/easy!

You mentioned "not eating during the week." Um, I *do* eat. I can't deal with starving. What I've found is that I enjoy food more when I *don't* overdo it.

As Reinhard says, this system's rules are a basic crutch for willpower. I personally am not a hardcore stickler for rules and view these more as guidelines. When it comes to No S, I tend to focus on following the "spirit of the law" rather than the "letter of the law." Sticking *exactly* to the N-days/S-days division constantly isn't my thing--I'm interested in generally eating in a moderate way, and No S is a mostly convenient way to do that for me. I think some people tend to lose sight of the general goal of the plan (nothing totally forbidden, just eat the more decadent stuff in moderation, eat less, move more) and simply flip out about the rules, giving themselves a control complex just like they did with every other diet. No S is a handy set of rules, but frankly, I'm just happy if I'm enjoying food and eating in moderation, even if I have a cookie on a Wednesday.

Oh yeah. I've NEVER wanted to look like Kate Moss. Honestly. My body type just doesn't fit that--I mean, I think I'd look STUPID as a waif.


Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:27 am
by kccc

First, let me say that I'm sorry for your past experiences, and I hope you have found something that works for you. You obviously have strong feelings, and spoke from a desire to help.

However, I don't think what you were doing is really No-S. There may be some superficial similarities, but that's all. Your past experience is coloring your perception of this way of eating.

The biggest difference is that there is NO "starving during the week." One plate of food at each meal is not deprivation. In fact, I have found No-S to be the sanest way of eating I've ever followed. I eat good, solid meals that are probably healthier than what I ate before. (Yes, I was a little excessive on weekends at first, but that has eased up over time, as I become accustomed to the idea that treats are treats - best in moderation.)

Bottom line: I enjoy food MORE on this diet - far from feeling "in denial," I feel that by not eating a lot of junk, I am free to actually enjoy what I do eat.

I did used to have a lot of issues with food. With this way of eating, I've made peace with food. It's a good feeling.

I hope that you can see the differences I'm describing. More importantly, I hope you find something that works for you.

Best wishes.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:42 am
by reinhard
Hi Jessica,

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but are you sure the diet you were following was no-s? You say you never saw the home page till now, so maybe it got a bit garbled in transmission. You ate three meals a day? 3 meals a day is not exactly "purging" or "deprivation" or "not eating." And binging doesn't make sense if you don't purge -- there's nothing (much) to react against. A pendulum that stops sort of in the middle isn't going to swing back very far in the opposite direction -- if at all. I do think the home page makes this pretty clear. Have you had a chance to read it though now? The usual problem people have with no-s is that it's too moderate, too slow, they get impatient -- not that it's something that starves them into unsustainable waifdom. It's funny you mention Kate Moss, because I use her as an example on the home page -- of what this diet is NOT intended to do for you.

I am very, very sorry if anything I wrote somehow percolated through the internet and got distorted and served as grist for your eating disorder. And though I guess I was obligated to make some kind of token defense for No-s, I'll stop here. I do not for a second want to encourage you to go against your doctors' advice (though do give them the url so they can evaluate the whole program, I've gotten pretty good responses from the doctors I've shown it to), and for all I know maybe perhaps some people with certain kinds of mentalities might be tempted to abuse No-s. In fact, I'll link to this discussion from the "Kate Moss" section of the home page, if you don't mind, as a warning to people who suspect they might have similar issues. Please let me know if you think there's anything else I can do to minimize the risk for such people.

Thank you for taking the time to post this warning, best wishes in getting over your eating issues, and please feel welcome to post more details here.


Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:59 pm
by florafloraflora
Joining in to back up what others have said: I eat plenty of healthy food, at 3 meals a day, and I don't feel that I'm depriving myself at all. Sometimes those 3 meals aren't even all that healthy: I'm a cheese freak, and there's no way I could stick to a plan that didn't allow some cheese in my diet. But I'm sticking to the plan, I'm losing weight, and I'm feeling a lot better.

As for weekends, holidays and other S-days, I find that over time they become self-limiting. The first few weeks I did stuff my face, systematically, with all the things I felt deprived of. Then, as I got used to eating less on weekdays, I found that it didn't take much of the treats on weekends before I'd start feeling unpleasantly stuffed, and it wasn't hard for me to turn down treats that I didn't find absolutely delicious because they weren't worth that unpleasant stuffed feeling.

I'm sorry you're having trouble with eating and I hope things get better for you.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:50 pm
by Bee
Wow, if "No-S" isn't a sane, sensible, HEALTHY way to eat, I don't know what is! It is practically the opposite of disordered eating. It is like the "un-diet".

At least that is the way I interpret it.

I am not sure I see how limiting snacks, sweets, and seconds on most days out of the week can lead to an eating disorder, but I guess everyone is different. For me, it has lead to a MUCH healthier relationship with food and with my body.

just let me say

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:17 pm
by fitchick
I have lost 68 pounds on a diet that was similar to this diet. I have managed for a year now to keep most of it off. You really have to begin somewhere.... :D

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:44 pm
by joasia
Can you describe the diet that helped you lose 68 pounds?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:52 pm
by karinatwork
Oh - I'd like to know that too! :) Please share your experience!

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:00 am
by Kevin
I posted a fairly nasty response to Jessica, then deleted it. Upon re-reading her post, I wish I had left it up.

I have a really difficult time with folks that bend everything to fit their preconceptions and then preach from that vantage point.

What she says is nonsensical. It frustrates me. Moreover, I worry that she has a blog somewhere that she's using as a bullhorn for this mis-information.

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:06 am
by kccc

You did the right thing to delete. Never regret an impulse to be kind rather than nasty. If you must err, err on the side of openness and kindness.

Clearly, Jessica is totally off-base and incorrect in her assessment of No-S. Just as clearly, her ability to evaluate is warped through her own pain. No point in adding to it.

And no need to defend No-S. Anyone who comes here and looks will see the sanity in the process.

So don't second-guess yourself. :) Your judgment was sound.


Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:00 pm
by FarmerHal
I can't agree with the Op, but I also don't know her life situation and what led her to feeling this way.

I am almost 30 years old (in 6 days, eek!). For those 30 years I have suffered with my eating. I was the fat kid through school. I would sneak food as a child and then be punished for it. My mom was clearly embarasssed about my condition and reminded me of it frequently.

My junior/senior year I ate only white rice (plain) for lunch and a baked potato (with butter) for supper. that was it. I went from 179 to 149 in 3 months. I was at a size 12 but everyone still called me fat and teased me daily.
I married, moved far away (thousand + miles from family) and became stressed. My body was fighting (still is) and autoimmune disorder and I slept a lot and ate a lot to deal with the pain and loneliness. I gained 100lbs in 11 years.
Meanwhile I had 2 kids with 2 terrible c/sections and my body is a total wreck. In order to deal with that embarrassment over what happened to my body, I ate. We moved 8 times in 11 years, leaving many good memories and great friends behind. More loneliness and depression and more grazing/permasnacking to dull those feelings.

NoS was mentioned on another board and I checked it out. It made complete sense to me. I started 16 Dec last year. I completed 21 days easily, bombed for nearly 2 months every single day (just couldnt' get over the loneliness and stress of 2 small kids in the afternoon). THen I sucked it up, checked in (still do) daily with Jaxhil (Love ya babe! :)) And we've both seen so many positive changes.

Now I don't want to look like Kate Moss at all, I think that's pretty gross myself. I want to look healthy. I'd be happy with 180lbs at this point.

Things have changed SO much. I even had gone to the doctor about wanting to lose weight but he really did nothing to help me except 'eat less and exercise more.' Of course, this is not what I wanted to hear, and so I ate all day long. I do mean all day long.
Typical day pre nos was: bagel with pb&J with a soy milk. And another bagel with butter. And a bowl of fruit loops. And some crackers. And some coffee.
Lunch was typically leftovers or fast food. If fast food I'd get the mcflurry or frosty.
Shortly after that it'd be snack time so I'd eat a whole box of wheat thins or ritz's and then have an ice cream (probably 4 servings). Another snack of bagel and pb&j about 4pm.
Supper was generally a whole lotta meat, a bit of veggies which I wouldn't eat and soemthing liek a whole potato or a huge blob of rice plus pillsbury breadsticks. Don't forget dessert! Ice cream or cupcake or whatever. And after that I might have an apple with cheese slices because I was 'hungry' and didn't want to go to bed 'hungry.'

My jaw still drops reading that. Every day I ate like that.

Now it's 3 plates a day. I try to make each plate have vegs/fruit, protein and carb (in decending order as listed).

Anyway, I am no longer a slave to food. If I'm feeling sad/mad I don't cover it up with food. One thing I've learned from the other posters is that after I have eaten whatever tasty thing to cover up my issue, the issue will still be there. It's better for me now to say outloud the problem (such as my bad teeth and crowns I need, ugh!) "I AM MAD ABOUT MY STOOPID TEETH!!!!" or "THESE KIDS ARE MAKING ME CRAZY!" you get the idea. I acknowledge the feeling, and then try to come up with a solution and let it pass.

I have fewer cravings and I don't even have the urge to snack between meals most days (aside from the days when DD is having a growth spurt and breastfeeds more frequently). I do allow myself a healthy snack if I am genuinely hungry because of breastfeeding.

A relatively new development in recent weeks is that I don't even like sweets that I used to love (cake, ice cream <blech!>, cookies). A few bites is enough and I begin to feel sick.

Did I mention previous to noS I was insulin resistant? This is a BIG warning sign for diabetes.

I don't starve during the week at all. I pile my one plate pretty good (I like to eat tons of veggies now) and I've become much more conscience of what I put on my plate. I think more about nourishing my body to make it to the next meal than that I might be depriving myself of something. My meals have become much more balanced and healthful.

My clothes are fitting better. My size 20 stuff fits better, not so stinking tight, and my 22's are falling off me! (don't even have to unbutton/unzip my pants, they just pull down lol)

My scale has moved slowly, I've lost abuot 10lbs since dec. But I notice it and dh is noticing it. I feel sad sometiems that the weight isn't flying off but like Hilary said, it took years to put it on...

Moreover, I don't' feel sluggish. I'm not guilty and downtrodden by the end of the day, day after day for having eaten too much. I don't have to make deals w/myself that I'll start a new diet and binge today- day after day.

I'm sorry your experience w/a noS type diet has left you feeling upset and fighting an eating disorder. Not every diet is for everybody.

NoS for me has brought to me freedom, a new outlook on life. Freedom. I am not expecting weight to come flying off me. If nothing else- if I stay at 234 lbs forever, I still have gained freedom from feeling bloated, gassy, going to the bathroom 5-6 times a day, feeling ashamed and guilty. I feel happy, my stomach has a much lighter feeling to it. I have much less chance of developing diabetes and all the woes that come with it.
I am forever thankful that Reinhard put his thoughts online.

Well I could go on, but genuinely, I hope you find peace with your eating.[/b]

My take...

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:54 am
by senanbar
I couldn't disagree more. I have 21 days recovery from disordered eating (10 years diagnosed and treated now) and I have been using No S as my template for a plan of eating and doing very, very well.

Do I follow No S to a T? No. Because I am in (grateful) recovery I keep two of the No S principles on the weekends - no seconds and no snacks, and for me, NO bingeing and no purging. For once I am eating real meals, no grazing on food all day long or bingeing my brains out and trying to compensate.

Can the No S plan be abused? Sure. So can all plans of eating or NO plans of eating. When people are in their disordered eating patterns the rationalizations can come quick and easy.

Everyone works recovery differently, and just about everyone exists in their disordered eating differently. To say that No S, across the board, is an invitation to court and coddle a disease, is not a fair assessment. When I was in my disease I could have used this plan as an excuse for my behavior just as I can now use it as a template for a portion of my recovery - it's all about perspective.

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:26 pm
by franxious
If you have an eating disorder, any diet, whatever its rules are, might just be the exact wrong diet for you and might exacerbate your problem. I have a binging problem, and the last seven diets I've tried (besides this one) did seem to make me want to "break out of prison" and binge more and more.

I actually was starting to feel seriously depressed, like this was a problem with no solution, or that the only solution was never to restrict myself so that I'd be overeating all the time, but not actually binging, which is just so horrible. Talk about "degraded beast."

However, I have to say that this diet seems to have stopped the violent swinging of the pendulum from restriction to binge and back again. It's only been 15 days, true. But the fact that I've gotten through so many S days with so few problems is really encouraging to me. Normally, I'd expect those days to be completely out of control and/or I would expect not to be able to adhere to N days for five days in a row. But for whatever reason, the structure of this particular diet seems to be very "normalizing" for my particular issues. The idea that I am fully entitled to eat my meals, and to eat what I want (except for sweets) is somehow reassuring and calming. The rules don't feel too restrictive; they just feel reasonable. I have very high hopes that I will binge much less if I stick with this way of eating.

Just another point of view!


Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:44 pm
by 3aday
I was a compulsive overeater and binger for years.
In fact, it took me months and months when I started No S to even complete one day of eating 3 moderate meals 3 times a day. Months.
However, it wasn't until I finally became honest with myself was I able to adopt this way of living.
This is normal eating.
This is sane eating.
This is a lifetime eating plan.
This is both diet and maintenance.
But, you have to be honest with yourself.
We can't blame a program for our own compulsions or disordered thinking/eating.
I am not trying to be disrespectful or offensive in anyway but the food is not the problem, we are the ones with the problem AND only if we allow it to be.
We have the strength and capacity within ourselves to decide how we are going to choose to eat that day.
You have to change your thinking.
If you think that a piece of cake or a snack on Saturday and Sunday is going to trigger an uncontrollable binge, that is because you think it will.
For me, abstaining between meals and not eating at night is sanity.
Also, dessert, a snack on weekends prevents deprivation or eating a 3 course dinner on the weekend prevents deprivation.
There is no deprivation.
Food is not the problem, how we eat the food is.
This program works but you have to change your thinking.
Respect your body and allow it to be the best weight for your body not what you think it should be.
Also, just because this program doesn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for other people.
There comes a point in our lives when we have to be accountable for the choices we make and not for others.
If you think this triggers your disordered eating than perhaps you may need to work on your emotional eating from a psychological standpoint.
This is not "a starving yourself during the week and binge uncontrollably on the weekends plan". However, it is ONLY if YOU DECIDE that is how it is.
Change your thinking, change your life.
Please know, I am not minimizing eating disorders. They rob you of your esteem and life....
But, you need to take control, one day at a time.

Senanbar this was great: When I was in my disease I could have used this plan as an excuse for my behavior just as I can now use it as a template for a portion of my recovery - it's all about perspective.

Shamrockmommy this was beautiful:
NoS for me has brought to me freedom, a new outlook on life. Freedom. I am not expecting weight to come flying off me. If nothing else- if I stay at 234 lbs forever, I still have gained freedom from feeling bloated, gassy, going to the bathroom 5-6 times a day, feeling ashamed and guilty. I feel happy, my stomach has a much lighter feeling to it. I have much less chance of developing diabetes and all the woes that come with it.
I am forever thankful that Reinhard put his thoughts online.

How true!

I want to add recovery from eating disorders is absolutely possible but you have to make a conscious decision to do so.
Only we have the ability to control our thoughts, our actions, our decisions.

Choose to be moderate. Moderate living brings a sweetness that no dessert can and can help tide you over on the weekends until normal eating becomes...habit! (Thanks Reinhard!)

I love this lifetime plan and i am LOVING THE CHANGE!

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:14 am
by gratefuldeb67
NoS diet is a great one and it helps one appreciate eating in moderation.
In no way does it promote binging and purging or gorging on the weekends.
I personally found that opening letter really quite hostile in tone and kinda rude.
Frankly I doubt the writer will come back to actually continue this thread, as it seemed just a big old rant..
We have all had bad experiences here and I can't ever recall anyone getting on board NoS with such a negative attitude.

On a side note, I wish to commend our amazing friend and founder here Reinhard for his cordial aplomb and classy reply.
Ever the classy gent :)

Thank you for creating NoS. It has helped me lose about 25 lbs over the past few years and I was just thinking how I enjoy eating sweets and snacks so much more now than I ever did before on S days when they are real treats to me which I can look forward to. Before NoS every day was an opportunity to pig out. Now I no longer enjoy that, and S days are very moderate in indulgence, yet extremely high in enjoyment :)

Now if I could only get my a** moving again and do some exercise already! LOL..

Long live NoS!!!!!!!!!

Peace and Love,
Debs x 8)

Slow and Steady

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:58 pm
by christmas tree
I agree with the majority of thinking here. This is a very sensible diet. There is no deprivation here. Three sensible meals during the week & some pleasure eating on the weekends. The perameters of the 3 no sss does not constict or deprive. I cannot understand why everyone in the whole world is not eating this way.

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:31 pm
by funfuture
I agree with all the other posters. I'm finding No-S liberating and I'm very thankful I found it. Many years ago now I lived in Japan on a work exchange and over a year I lost two stone and became quite fit without trying at all. From time to time since I have been trying to recreate those lifestyle conditions that made me so naturally slim and healthy. I've tried dropping dairy and restricting wheat. I've tried exercising (but never quite found a way to make exercise just a normal part of my day as it was there where I bicycled everywhere - not possible in the busy city where I live). I've tried regular relaxation and yoga (the nightly Japanese baths were wonderful). I've also tried reducing the external stresses - being bombarded with media, etc. Being on No-S has taken me right back to that time in countryside Japan. I also ate whatever I liked there, but it was impossible to snack and seconds and desserts weren't part of the diet, except on weekends when I would meet my friends to go out somewhere. I found that over time in Japan, my appetite decreased without me making any effort or feeling deprived in any way. No-S is the closest I have come to recreating that sensible way of eating - and I'm really happy about it.

The other thing I wanted to mention - and maybe I shouldn't voice this thought - but I wondered how genuine that original post is. This is the cynic in me coming out, but it seems that No-S is begining to really be noticed - what with the book and the national magazine coverage, etc. It occurred to me that the post might be a 'spoiler' - something to plant doubts - something that is perhaps commercially motivated. But then again - it has had such a resoundingly positive response, maybe that's not the case.

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:27 am
by navin
You know, it speaks volumes to Reinhard as well as the No-S community as to how we respond to these types of messages. This type of stuff can easily turn into flamewars, or they could be censored, etc. But instead it turned into interesting and helpful discussion.

I definitely agree with the majority (which is unusual, typically I'm a contrarian) that this is probably the most sustainable diet I'll ever find.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:24 pm
by Dawn
I am a newbie so I don't know how well I will do with but my husband has basically been on the No-S diet his whole life, and he doesn't even know it. That is just the way he eats and his weight is so consistant. If he does pack a bit on around the holidays etc, then he simply cuts back his portions during the week but still has his treats on the weekends. I think if you have issues, you will no matter what plan you try. You will find a way to fail. My only worry is not seeing any progress soon enough. That is where I always get into trouble and crack to the temption.

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:24 am
by kbits
I think a lot of us have issues with going a little nuts on the S-days. I wonder if maybe the S-days should be called "1-s" days? That is, you can indulge one of the S's - snack, sweet or second - once per S day?

Or is that too complicated to remember? What say you?

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:46 am
by kccc
Kbit... this is a very old thread that got pulled to the front.

S-days can be a challenge, and different ways of dealing work with different folks. I tried the "one-S" approach, and it made me feel too deprived... but that reinforced how important the S-days were in general.

Reinhard just did an AWESOME podcast on S-days - there's a sticky thread at the top of this forum that will take you to it. It has an array of ways of dealing with S-days that you may find useful. (I did, anyway.)

Best wishes!

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:34 pm
by fkwan
If you are a person that has enough will power to take all of the bad foods out of your diet throughout the week, and then eat sensibly over the week/end, the diet may work.

This is the fine print.

NO diet will work unless you eat sensibly and cause calories in to be less than calories burned.

The secret of No S is it trains addictive folks to do just that, eat three meals, no snacks, no seconds and limited sweets. If they see results on the weekdays and binge on the weekends, their weight will go up. They will get to the point where they do NOT want this to happen anymore, and THEN they will reduce their eating on weekends to match roughly the caloric intake of weekdays, and weight will continue to be lost.

No S is training to eat like a normal human being.


Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:30 pm
by navi
When I started NoS, I found myself falling into the "binge on sweets" trap on weekends, which was strange, since I have never been a big sweets fan. Sure, I love sweets, but I am usually satisfied with a bite of something sweet after a meal, or a spoon of the best ice cream i can find. The "no sweets" part of NoS actually made me stuff in the sweets on weekends because I felt like I had to get them on S days while i could......In the past 2 weeks I have decided to modify this rule by allowing myself one bite of a dessert if it is available, after a meal, and if I want a full dessert on a weekend, fine. After this tweak, I miraculously stopped stuffing in the sweets on weekends, and during the week, I will eat a bite of dessert maybe once or twice. I have gone back to liking sweets, but i can take them or leave them. My point? This diet has solid principles, but people are individuals with different issues, and you may have to modify the diet a bit to fit your needs. My main problem has been portion size and permasnacking, so I am successfully using noS to reign that in. The sweets simply were not the issue, so i dropped that part. I have also decided that if I am ultra hungry between meals or while fixing dinner i can eat raw veggies or fruit if i feel like it. I am a fruit and veggie lover, and i can't see where popping a few strawberries in my mouth while out picking them, or chomping on a raw cucumber before dinner is such a sin. Again, since allowing this, I am much happier, and i find myself RARELY actually eating a snack, I just like knowing i can eat an apple if i am ravenous. Don't get me wrong, I am truly thankful to noS for bringing me back to rational portions and 3 meals a day. I just figure that Reinhard looked at all the diets out there, did not find a rational one for himself, so made up his own diet. I in turn looked at his diet & modified it to my needs (after trying vanilla noS for a while). Perhaps some of you who may be struggling with noS need to look at it again and see if it needs some tweaks to make it work better for you. It is a great diet, but part of true freedom to eat like a normal person is taking control of whatever diet you are on & making it work for you - following ANY diet to the letter of the law even if that is not quite working to me is part of the problem - reliance on an outside authority with a list of do's and don'ts, and you follow that like a disciple & magically all your problems disappear. NoS only really started working for me when I stepped away from that stance and made some modifications.

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:21 pm
by BrightAngel
This is a really great thread.
I'm glad it advanced again for easy viewing.
It seems to be another one of those threads that I consider "timeless".

Very good stuff here.
I love seeing the different responses that have been made over time,
and the different points of view about our eating difficulties
in connection with the No S Diet Plan.

I recognize some of the names,
and so I know some of the people who previoulsy posted on the thread are still here,
but I don't think that really matters.
What matters is the essential questions, and the discussions of the various problem and individual solutions.
I think it is helpful, and I enjoyed reading it.

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:14 pm
by Jesseco
I love senanbar's and gionta's replies on this thread. Since we are all individuals and are all a bit different, it makes sense to individualize the diet to be what we need.

Like senanbar, I've had an eating disorder (mild, but bothersome enough to me), and I cannot allow myself to binge on S days.

Like gionta, I think that eating a fruit or veggie between meals is o.k., although I am still trying to keep the 3 meals a day only rule. I may not always keep it. I also agree with her that it is not wise to rely 100% on an outside authority, no matter how terrific he is. We must maintain control over what and how we feed ourselves. I give great credit to Reinhard, though, and have been helped tremendously by his common-sense approach.

And I do love the general structure of the diet--3 meals a day except on special days.

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:00 pm
by feelgood
If you are a person that has enough will power to take all of the bad foods out of your diet throughout the week, and then eat sensibly over the week/end, the diet may work. But for most of you overweight people... to bluntly state it... you like to eat a lot. Not eating during the week will kill you, and eating whatever you want on week/ends will be out of control

Well, I have to disagree here with the OP. I'm convinced that when you consider foods good or bad that it leads to binging. You deny yourself the "bad" foods, and when you can no longer white-knuckle it, you binge on them.
On no-s, I eat anything I want, but not all at the same time. It truly works because I now can keep foods in the house and eat them a little bit at a time instead of eating the whole bag of chips or cashews, or deciding that I'm on a diet and throwing them out. I also really look forward to a home-baked dessert after dinner on weekends.
Nowhere was gorging encouraged on no-s. It's moderation all the way.

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:56 am
by Jessies Daughter

First, thank you for your post. This is truly a non-judgmental site; all discussions welcome and open as long as we keep it civil!

What I get from your post is that the program you followed must have had restrictions which caused you to deprive yourself of certain foods during the week. Those restrictions were lifted on weekends and like a kid in a candy shop, you could run wild.

No S is far from that. No S is about habits and choices.
I used to skip breakfast have a snack at 9:00am, and GRAZE from then until lunch at 1:30, then GRAZE until my snack at 3:00 then GRAZE until dinner anytime between 7:00 and 9:00 then have a snack before bed.

The 21 Day club allowed me to establish the habit of eating three meals a day. Sticking strictly to three plates of food a day, on weekdays, with no snacks, no sweets and no seconds has allowed me to discern when I am really hungry from when I am eating just to be eating. I am learning how to eat to fuel my body, not to soothe my mind. I am getting into the habit of recognizing when I am hungry and eating when I am hungry. My body has worked out its own time schedule. I eat breakfast around 6:30am, lunch around 12:00pm and dinner between 7:00 and 8:00.

No S is allowing me to be in control of the food I eat, rather than the food I eat controlling me. I made the choices as to what I had on my 3 plates of food. At first I piled the food high, but soon I realized that I was choosing too much food so I chose to stop. The longer I keep the No S rules the more I learn to listen to my body when it comes to my food choices. The funny thing about my body, is that it really seems to work better on three meals a day.

For me the S days are just days that are a little more relaxed. I feel so much better that I choose not to binge. Sometimes, on weekends, I choose to give in to that urge and snack, but I know that I am snacking by choice. The recognition that I am eating because I want to and not because I am not hungry is what has kept me from binging so far.
Changing your eating habits is how you lose weight. There are a lot of satisfied eaters here that are learning how to do that with No sweets, No seconds, No snacks. I can appreciate your feelings but I do encourage you to read more about this :No S Thingy" and then come back and talk to us some more.

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:08 am
by blueskighs
funfuture wrote:
I found that over time in Japan, my appetite decreased without me making any effort or feeling deprived in any way. No-S is the closest I have come to recreating that sensible way of eating - and I'm really happy about it.
this is what is happening for me right now, my appetite is decreasing "without me making any effort or feeling deprived in any way." The other thing is that my focus on food itself is also diminishing.

I have not binged in over 10 weeks now. For me that is nothing short of a miracle.


Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:01 pm
by Freckles
I have an eating disorder.

IMHO, eating disorders are like alcoholism. One is always recovering. So I can't ever say I was bulemic, or I'm an ex-bulemic.

Some folks might think this is slapping some unecessary guilt or label on myself. Not at all. It's a guard against hubris, and an acknowledgement that recovery is a process, not binary.

I've just started the No S diet this week. We'll see how it does with the bulemia. 8)

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:40 pm
by blueskighs

I have binge eating disorder, pernicious for years. I am just completing eight months on the No S diet and have 21 plus years of sobriety from alcohol.

Although people often think anorexia, bulimia, binge eating and just plain old overeating are the "same thing" my experience is they are not ... exactly. There are differences ... some of them subtle, some of them perhaps not so subtle so I cannot speak directly to bulimia.

My personal experience with my eating disorder and alcoholism has shown them to be very different creatures and require completely different solutions and attitudes. The recovery from alcoholism did seem to require a certain amount of "surrender" and "humility".

The recovery for binge eating has seemed to call for different psychological tasks, a "growing up" if you will, into the self-confidence and self-reliance that mature adulthood requires in a certain measure. It is interesting for me to see in retrospect, that trying to apply the same principles of recovery for alcoholism to my binge eating disorder while healing my alcoholism, exacerbated a certain "passivity" (refusal to "grow up"?) that fueled my eating disorder.

I am not sure how this will play out for you specifically, as I said I acknowledge the differences between bulimia and BED. However, following the No S Diet allows for a completely different mental and emotional paradigm with food and eating that amazingly can bleed out into other areas of your life,

I hope it works well for you,


Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:47 pm
by gratefuldeb67
Freckles wrote:I have an eating disorder.

IMHO, eating disorders are like alcoholism. One is always recovering. So I can't ever say I was bulemic, or I'm an ex-bulemic.

Some folks might think this is slapping some unecessary guilt or label on myself. Not at all. It's a guard against hubris, and an acknowledgement that recovery is a process, not binary.

I've just started the No S diet this week. We'll see how it does with the bulemia. 8)
Good luck Freckles!
I think you will do great!!
8) Debs

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:00 am
by gratefuldeb67 the way Freckles, the original poster here, to my knowledge, hadn't ever posted on NoS and I don't think has yet again posted, since this thread was started.. Don't let it scare you off. It's definitely *not* representative of the diet at all.
Again, best of luck to you!
8) Debs

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:16 pm
by MJ7910
Freckles wrote:I have an eating disorder.

IMHO, eating disorders are like alcoholism. One is always recovering. So I can't ever say I was bulemic, or I'm an ex-bulemic.

Some folks might think this is slapping some unecessary guilt or label on myself. Not at all. It's a guard against hubris, and an acknowledgement that recovery is a process, not binary.

I've just started the No S diet this week. We'll see how it does with the bulemia. 8)
I see I am resurrecting a very old post. but i wanted to say this: Yes, eating disorders and disordered thinking can hang around for quite a long time. But NoS is the closest thing I have ever seen to ending the endless thought about food. After a while you just eat your meals instead of obsessing over them. After a while you wake up and realize it's an Sday and have something you really like, not binging or overeating at all. It can start to become the way to recover. I don't think NoS would encourage eating disordered thinking, rather it is freedom from diethead and disordered thinking. Stop modifying it and just make it what it is in its simplest form. at that point that you reach a long amount of time on NoS, maybe then think about changing it up a bit. you will find in time, as i suspect (but have not experienced personally) that this is a sane way to eat that takes you away from those behaviors if you let it. If you want to cling to those behaviors it will be more tough. but it seems like freedom to me so far.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:57 pm
by heatherhikes
MJ, really good post. NoS is freedom...a 40+ years diet veteran here. :wink:

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:14 am
by Over43
Someone really dug deep for this thread. Looks like the original poster was a one and done. Possibly a spy from Low Carb Friends. 8) That there was funny, I don't care who you are.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:18 am
by MJ7910
yep i resurrected it because i found something interesting about it and i wanted to say that eating disorders are all too common, the key is making it not be about thinking about food every minute of every day! I'm hoping that over time NoS will be so much easier for me when i get the structure down.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:01 am
by jellybeans01
oh he he he a little drama on the no s thread. Made for some interesting reading... well, when I do have a problem with overdoing it on s days, it is not the diet but ME that has the problem. I love you no s diet!

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:18 am
by Blithe Morning
Wow. So many familiar names from years past. Hope they are all doing well.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:40 am
by oolala53
No S about not eating? Oh, my.

I didn't notice the dates of the posts until after I saw how many responses there were. Had me going.

Oh, the irony of feeling that No S saved me from binging, even with my many wild S days. Hey, 5 days a week was a huge improvement! And the horses are basically in the corral now.

So, if you're new and you happen to get this far, check out my testimonial.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:14 pm
by leafy_greens
My response to the OP's idea - I definitely see how depriving yourself for 5 days in a row can "make you want it more;" and I definitely want sweets as much as always. But there is a choice of: inevitable weekday binging if I allow myself to eat what I want, versus the contained (and hopefully temporary) binging of doing it on the weekend only.

I suspect that there are No S Conquerors, that can subconsciously limit their sweets, number of plates, or have a moderate snack on the weekday and snap right back into normal eating patterns. But this stage is a long way off for most of us, because of our deep-seeded(?) food issues.

This is the most normal "diet" I've heard of. I sure don't want to keep searching in vain for anything else. Maybe after a few years No S has sunk in as more normal to people than back then? One can hope.

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:55 pm
by SugarFreebie
Consider the starting post for this thread as spoken by the voice of a mental illness, which is what eating disorders are.