Is there life after snacks and sweets?

planner lady · Post by **planner lady** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:15 pm

I went back to Weight Watchers last Monday, 8/8/05. I've posted before that I lost 85 pounds in 2002 and have gained back 45. I went back to WW because it's familiar and it allows me to eat snacks and sugar (unfortunately, the very things that are keeping me overweight). However, I did well for the first couple of days, not so good the next couple and then didn't care the rest of the week. I didn't go back this week. You know what . . . I'm sick to death of counting points and weighing and measuring everything I eat. All I do is think about food! But I LOVE sugar and snacks. I can't bear the thought of not being able to eat whenever I want to. And yet my gut feeling is that I need to do the NOS Diet because it helps me get the focus off food; it's simple; it provides much-needed flexibility within structure (how I work best); doesn't cost me a dime; and my husband, who knows me better than I know myself, thinks it would work for me and be easier than WW. But again, the thought of giving up snack time is SO hard!!!

I don't intend to slam WW. I think it's a great program. However, while I did lose weight, I wasn't able to keep it off. I know that NOS Diet, even though you call it "diet", really isn't a diet but a lifestyle and it is certainly something I could do forever. There wouldn't be a maintenance plan to learn because the maintenance is the same as the diet. That's the way it should be. My problem with WW and my re-gain was that after I got to goal, I gradually began eating the way I used to. I didn't truly understand that it was a lifestyle and I had to continue doing the same things. My fault -- not WW.

I guess I'm writing because I need some encouragement. I need to hear from some of you who have also had a love affair with snacks and sugar and survived giving them up as a part of this diet. I need to hear that it really does get easier and that it's worth it.

Thanks for reading my long post.

Patty

emb · Post by **emb** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:55 pm

hey Patty,

Sugar is a addiction, so most people who eat snacks and sweets everyday, cannot imagine going without them. The great part is, once you break the addiction (which I found took 2-3 weeks) you don't crave it anymore. So it really honestly does take the 21 days to form the habbit of eating according to the no s rules and to break the sugar addiction. Plus: you still get to have sweets on the S days.

Try it....the first week is hard (not too hard though) and then it only gets easier....

cvmom · Post by **cvmom** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:00 pm

Hi Patty:

Well I just want to say congratulations for posting and for coming back here. You may already know that I am (was) a lifelong member of WW. I think there is some valuable information to be learned at some of the meetings but seriously, how long can you count points? Most of the people I know who go to WW lose weight and then slowly gain it back. I think it is a temporary solution to a lifelong problem. (For me, anyway.)

I have wanted to post this for some time so I guess now would be the right time. There is a contingant of WW members who do the "Wendy Plan" That variation allows you to eat your allotted points throughout the week and then one or two days a week you deliberately eat over your normal points range. This was developed by some woman named Wendy who realized that when she overdid it every once in a while that her weight would actually drop. No one knows why this is. Perhaps it jump starts the metabolism. Anyway, if you can see where I am leading, it stands to reason that if you are moderate with No S during the week and over do it with S treats on S days that in a way you are tricking your body. I'm not saying that gives us a license to eat a gallon of ice cream two times per week but I think there is some inherent logic to this. Anyone who has an opinion please feel free to share. I could be totally off the mark.

As for your sugar and snack addiction, well I can relate! But, having done No S strictly for almost 3 months I will say that my urge for sweets has gone away. I still like them and I still crave them once in a while but I don't think about them constantly like I used to. Eating real food actually works.

My weight loss has been slow. Maybe 5,6 or 7 pounds. (But I have not been exercising so that could be why). Regardless Patty, I would just jump right back on the band wagon and be strict with yourself, especially during the first 21 days. Post every day. And, don't get discouraged. Every day that you stick to the No S diet you are honoring your body.

Best,
Dru

P.S. Don't worry about knocking WW. They are a multi-national billion dollar company that thrives on people's failures. Why do you think they have a different plan every few years?

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:27 pm

Hey Planner.... There is a learned appreciation for sweets and snacks when you earn them and you know, in your heart, that you won't get fat from them, when eaten in moderation....
NoS isn't about giving up these things at all... It's about cutting out excessive use of them....

I don't think even Reinhard would be on this diet if it meant never having sweets... He loves them just as much as you...
But they do the most damage... period...
So why not focus on the items that do the most harm, and then free your mind to enjoy the ones that don't....
Most people learn to love and enjoy their sweets ten times more than in the past by looking forward to them on S days...
I think it's nice to have that support group you get to share with at the WW meetings, but the real work is done when you are all by your lonesome.. I don't mean to sound harsh about this, but at least for me, this is the truth... So if you don't actually enjoy, counting points, or whatever dissection/analysis of food you are consuming, then that will be something you eventually lose your zest for... Then you resent it, and yourself for not keeping track.. It's all a big negative setup....
Maybe if you absolutely live for accounting type work, that kind of plan would be enjoyable... I've done weight watchers...
Look.. Food isn't "points" it's food!!!

We are here for you Patti and thank you for sharing your journey!
Losing 85 lbs is a fantastic accomplishment... I lost about 65 and then gained back around 50 in one bad year... Not with Weight Watcher's, though I've been in and out of their establishment a few times since college... Never stuck with it...
It hurts to gain back the weight, I know.. It is a major dissappointment when you had something so great, and then it just slips away...
I can tell you with my heart of hearts, that if you stick with NoS and are patient, not impatient, you will be glad you did!!! You really have to change your perspective if you want to grow.. Keep eating the snacks and sweets every day or even every other day, and watch the other 40 lbs creep back up.... This is what happens...
So you have to choose between your wants and your needs.. I'm sure it's not easy, but easy isn't always best...
Real inner change and growth is "bleepin" hard work!!!!!
I wish you Peace on your journey!
And by the way, I personally feel NoS is definitely a diet, just not a fad or a scam or some bogus *horrible and unmaintainable one*....
Love,

Deb

carolejo · Post by **carolejo** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:03 am

Hi Planner lady.

This sounds faintly Alcoholics Anonymous, but here we go. I think it's time I stood up and said my piece:-

"My name is Carole, and I'm a sugar junkie."

I used to beg my husband to go buy me some sweets, most evenings. He would do this (under protest) because I was horrible to live with otherwise!
I used to eat 2 or 3 large chocolate bars AND some fruity flavoured sweets nearly EVERY DAY. If there was cake or sweets in the office for somebody's birthday, I'd hover around and hoover up most of it in next to no time. I didn't even care that much if people thought me a greedy pig, all that mattered was putting all that lovely sugar into my mouth and feeling the high as my blood sugar level soared.

My first week of NoS was really really hard. Like going cold turkey.
I cannot and will not pretend otherwise. BUT, every day it got easier. Really! I could feel the cravings lessening with each day. As I put it in one of my earliest posts on this board "today I really really want to eat a twix bar... but not as much as I really wanted to eat one yesterday". It does get easier. I don't think I'll ever find it totally trouble-free, but it helps a lot that I know I've only ever got to wait a maximum of 5 days, before I can eat some sweets again. In the event, I often find that I don't even WANT to eat so many sweets on S days, even though I'm allowed to!

I've been doing this now for about 2 months. I haven't seriously wanted to eat any chocolate or sweets (Monday to Friday) for the past 2 weeks. Although I still find it quite a challenge to refuse the birthday cakes and cookies at work, I've so far managed to resist temptation. I say I haven't 'seriously' wanted to eat them, because of course I still sit at my desk and think from time to time "I really fancy eating a crunchie bar". The difference is, I don't feel driven to charge out and get one. I just tell myself "you silly arse! You really don't need to eat that junk! You're just bored, or maybe a little hungry as it's nearly time for dinner. Being hungry will just make your proper food taste all the better and being bored isn't a reason to eat something." My mood is not linked to eating chocolate bars anymore. I don't have that sugar cycle of boom and bust running through my veins. There's no sugar crash to counter with another sugar hit.

So, really, I just wanted to say that you can do it. I mean, crikey, if you can stick with counting points long enough to lose so much weight in the first place, you sure can stick to no sweets for 5 little days in a row!

Hang in there. It's tough, but it gets a lot better pretty quickly. Start out your first day today if you like, then you've only got 3 days to get through before Saturday anyway, as it's already Wednesday.

It's so liberating, there's no way I'm going back now.

ClickBeetle · Post by **ClickBeetle** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:49 pm

As a snack-and-sweet lover who has successfully reduced my consumption of them at least 90%, let me suggest the following strategies regarding these pitfalls.

Strategy 1: "No krinkly bags." That's my little rule. (That goes for boxes, too.

The biggest problem with snacks and sweets is that they are calorie-dense and readily overeaten. You can exceed 400 calories or more very quickly with Fritos or chocolate chip cookies, because they (1) go down easy! and (2) they come in boxes, so it's easy to reach for more.

For contrast, try exceeding 400 calories with black beans -- you almost can't do it, because (1) the fiber fills you up too much, and (2) you have to put them in a bowl or prepare them -- not just reach into a box or bag.

What is the implementation method for this rule? - You can have a snack or sweet, but it must be homemade.

This eliminates the "reach into the bag" ease of overeating. If you spend two hours making a pie, it adds to the preparation burden that comes with the eating of it. It also eliminates certain truly unhealthy fried snacks, such as Fritos and potato chips, because they are burdensome if not impossible to make at home.

You may be worried that you'll spend all your time making cookies and pies and cheese straws. Well, I'm willing to bet that will get old. And as we all know, when you spend time making something it is not nearly as appetizing as when cooked by someone else ...

Bottom line, I feel this approach almost eliminates one of the most pernicious factors in our modern diets, the ability to obtain easily almost unlimited quantities of empty-calorie foods

Strategy 2: Fill up on fruits & vegetables first. If you focus on eating 8 or 9 a day, like the Food Pyramid recommends, trust me you won't have any room left.

Plus, as many on No-S have pointed out, if you're truly hungry you'll be willing to eat real food. Otherwise, it's just a snack craving.

"But I LIKE snacks & sweets and would rather eat those first" ... Sorry friend, there's no free ride. Keep doing this, you get to stay fat. Sounds harsh, it is a little harsh, but so is life!

Strategy 3: Whenever the snack urge hits, take a 15-minute walk.

I began by hating exercise, but anyone can manage and enjoy a 15-minute walk. Cuts your craving, cuts your appetite, burns the calories, keeps you happy. A big winner in snack control for me.

These strategies worked extremely well for me. Good luck!

Post by **reinhard** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:06 pm

Lots of good points here... very little to add.

No s diet and weight watchers (from what I understand) are both essentially simple calorie reduction diets. They just use different methods to reach the same ends. No s is really just a shortcut to counting points, it's a "good enough" approximation. That may not sound like a big deal, but it is. Counting is just too onerous for most people to do long term, and it only gets more onerous the longer you do it. You can't turn that much conscious effort into an unconscious habit.

As Deb mentions, I'm not anti-sweet. I love sweets. I love them even more on weekends. Honestly, I've never enjoyed sweets so much in my life as I do now. The no s diet should appeal to you as a lover of sweets.

Hang in there, keep us posted.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:28 pm

While Reinhard sees this as mostly a method for controlling your caloric intake, I believe there is something more important about No-S. And, I think it's something that you can learn to apply to other parts of your life.

It's this: you make yourself a promise not to eat between, meals, and then you keep it. Five or six hours is not to long to keep this promise. It's hard at first, but not too hard. And with every success, you increase you capacity for success. It gets easier. You get to a point where you can change your measure of success.

This is how I looked at this No-S when I started: I can make a six hour promise; then I can make another; then just one more, and the day is over. Repeat daily. Do a little penance when you fail (like a walk, or some situps). Enjoy a well-deserved sabbath. Marvel at your success to failure ratio: it improves with every kept promise.

So, maybe, does the rest of your life.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox.

planner lady · Post by **planner lady** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:42 pm

Thank you for your responses. There were several comments made in the posts that really hit me hard, like Grateful Deb's "you have to choose between your wants and your needs." I know that I am eating in a very child-like way right now -- wanting what I want, when I want it and having little regard for what's good for me. I've gotten so that I'm not eating good food but am feasting on junk.

I also liked the comment by Click Beetle about how if I'm truly hungry I'll be willing to eat real food.

I'm going to print out these posts and put them where I can read them when it seems too hard. Thank you each of you for your insights.

Patty

carolejo · Post by **carolejo** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:22 pm

Hi Planner,

Hang in there. You can do it, really!

Do yourself a favour and give this a proper go. You deserve to look and feel better AND to know that it was all down to YOUR OWN EFFORTS.

I wish you every success, and remember, we're all here if you need some additional support.

C.

"you're unique and special, just like everybody else"

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:49 pm

Kevin's post is right on... I remember reading somewhere Reinhard talking about all the ES stuff as being lots of mini-workouts for one's willpower! This is a great analogy, with practiced successes in willpower comes confidence, and therefore strength.

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:50 pm

One thing that I have discovered in the last three months is that snacks and sweets are really over-rated in the satisfaction department. Anticipating is really more fun than consuming, and the regret afterwards just ruins the whole thing. Stick with this and you'll come to the same conclusion.

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:36 pm

Dear Patty, I hope that it didn't hit too hard that it hurt or made you feel judged.. just seemed like you were on that fence.. Maybe I over did it...
If so, I'm real sorry...

I personally found it hard to do NOS perfectly for about the first 4 or 5 months.. It's still not perfect, but back then I would have probably at least one day a week where I just broke down and had a chocolate haagen daaz bar or some other thing... But the great thing was that I *NEVER* gained anything for that whole time... And that was during the Winter months, when my normal trend is to put on 10-15 anyway...

My loss was slow, but it was never a gain... I've got between 40-50 lbs to go, so as I see it, we are very similar in our goals... I would suggest that you eat large portions in the beginning..... Then, if you have an urge for a snack, try and notice if it is because of some specific factor.. (ie: boredom, lonliness, opportunity...) or is is really hunger?..... If you are not hungry, just retrain yourself to walk away from the snack! Freakwitch was mentioning the "mini workouts'... I believe he is referring to Reinhard's mention that each time we succeed at being strict (and even each time we try, and don't succeed) we are doing these "Spiritual pushups".... It will lead you into a happy cycle and away from a vicious cycle... Keep track of all the effort you put into yourself and be your own cheering section for every good thing you do!!!

I truly don't want to see you regain your lost weight from your good work on WW... But if I was a bit harsh, please forgive me!
I mean well.... You are certainly no child... It is a common need for all of us to have sweetness and love in our lives.. Often we translate that need to needing sweet food... It then becomes, really, an addiction...
And a bad habit... You can break this habit if you persevere!!!!!
You will enjoy your treats more on days that are treat days...

Good luck with NOS.. And remember that even if you do this with only 50% success, most likely, you will still be doing better, and having a nice time while doing it.... It's not all or nothing... Try doing the three weeks and see how many days you can survive without snacking in between...
Another tool, I suggest, is to take the snacks that you like so much, even if they aren't the most nutritional things (with the exception of the high sugar stuff) and incorporate them into your meal...
If you are dying for tortilla chips, have that and a whole lot of salsa as a meal, or have a salad with those chips on the plate too....
It's only two more days to the weekend.. Good luck holding out for your treats.... If necessary, just purge them from the house...

Peace and Love,

Deb

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:47 pm

Never a gain, never again.

planner lady · Post by **planner lady** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:58 pm

Grateful Deb, you were not harsh at all. You had some great, thought-provoking things to say and I appreciated every one of them. I am not easily offended so don't give it another thought. I appreciate your comments.

Patty

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:51 pm

Cool Patty!!!!
Love,

Deb

snazzybabe · Post by **snazzybabe** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:58 am

If you are truly hungry between meals have a healthy snack.

carolejo · Post by **carolejo** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:03 am

I'd like to add to Snazzy's post, though, that if you're eating enough proper nutritious food for your main meals, you probably WON'T be feeling truly hungry.

C.

peetie · Post by **peetie** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:42 pm

I agree both with Carolejo and Snazzy Babe in that if you eat the right amount, you won't be truly hungry, but if you DO screw up and didn't eat enough, a healthy snack is better than letting yourself get famished to the point where you are ready to eat your way through the kitchen. That can have dastardly results too.

I know that I "experimented" with a lunch that included a soup with nothing solid in it, and I felt full at the time, but an hour before dinner was so ravenous......I'm not talking a good, healthy hunger, but ready to lick the paint off the walls hunger, and I hung on through it and ended up eating dinner and needing a snack before bed also because I could still feel that hollow feeling and didn't think I could sleep. Had I had a small snack before dinner, I think I would have been fine the rest of the night.

But it was a learning experience for me in which I know now know that this particular lunch would not be enough to sustain me to another meal. And I didn't do a whole lot of damage in this learning process.....not a full on binge like in the old days. Just a little make up eating.

Peetie

ClickBeetle · Post by **ClickBeetle** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:03 pm

You all know I've said it so many times that I think it must sound tiresome, but I find that fiber is one key to staying filled up between meals. It slows down the release of energy in your system so that you're getting a more even blood sugar level for several hours, which in turn prevents hunger pangs.

Whole grains and beans have been a key part of my strategy. Not for everyone, but it seems to work for me.

carolejo · Post by **carolejo** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:14 pm

I second the comment about fibre, but personally find that it's most effective if the meal has a good-sized amount of protein too. Clicky's beans do it for me as well (if you'll pardon the expression!) but then again, they're also pretty high in Vegetable proteins.

The best thing is to experiment and don't be afraid to load your plate pretty high at the start - it's more useful at this stage to build the habit of only 3 meals and remember, you're in it for THE LONG TERM. This is a plan for how to eat for the rest of your life!

...Can you imagine counting WW points for the rest of your life like you're supposed to on maintainance? I certainly can't.

C.

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:23 am

I find if I balance my plate with 1/2 veggies/fruit/salad, 1/4 starch, and 1/4 protein, that I am able to make it from one meal to the next. This has become really important to me recently, since daughter got a job and dinner is often delayed until she gets home. If I really am ready to "lick the paint off the walls", though, and especially if I have to get on the highway to go pick her up, then I've found a glass of orange juice really does the trick to tide me over. Have only needed to do this once.

Post by **reinhard** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:48 pm

Kevin, you're right. By "essentially the same" I meant the just the common physical mechanism. The props that hold this mechanism in place, and the powerful, postitive side effects of these props, are far more interesting and ultimately even more important.

MerryKat · Post by **MerryKat** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:10 pm

cvmom wrote: I have wanted to post this for some time so I guess now would be the right time. There is a contingant of WW members who do the "Wendy Plan" That variation allows you to eat your allotted points throughout the week and then one or two days a week you deliberately eat over your normal points range. This was developed by some woman named Wendy who realized that when she overdid it every once in a while that her weight would actually drop. No one knows why this is. Perhaps it jump starts the metabolism. Anyway, if you can see where I am leading, it stands to reason that if you are moderate with No S during the week and over do it with S treats on S days that in a way you are tricking your body. I'm not saying that gives us a license to eat a gallon of ice cream two times per week but I think there is some inherent logic to this. Anyone who has an opinion please feel free to share. I could be totally off the mark.

Here's a bit more of my story:
I followed the Wendie Plan after WW stopped working for me no matter how well I followed the plan and it REALLY worked for me. The thought is that by eating a different number of points everyday and having one day where you eat a higher number of points (ie. more food or extra treats) in the week you prevent your body from adjusting to the food intake. So yes it is similar in you have a bit more freedom over the weekend (or your special days).

I loved it and the support from Wendie and her boards is great (I have a lot of super friends there) but I just cannot bear to count another point. I found that WW & WP really taught me a lot about quality food versus quantity and I have learned to make healthier choices. But I ate too many healthy snacks and that is why my weight is a problem again. I never learned how to apply the moderation rule with WW and that is why the minute I stop counting points I gain weight.

My three weeks doing No S have been so freeing and so enjoyable. I have finally stopped obsessing about food and my sugar cravings are nearly zero - and any time they pop up all I do is promise myself it over the weekend (by which time I have generally lost the taste!)

Here's to us all persevering through the sugar cravings and the snack monster calling on No S days so that we really enjoy our S days.

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Thu May 22, 2008 1:59 pm

I found this to be an interesting thread.

I suppose I should be ashamed to say it,
with all my great relationships with people around me,
and the many wonderful and interesting things I have,
but...............
Sweets and Snacks ARE my life.

fkwan · Post by **fkwan** » Thu May 22, 2008 3:08 pm

BrightAngel wrote:I found this to be an interesting thread.

I suppose I should be ashamed to say it,
with all my great relationships with people around me,
and the many wonderful and interesting things I have,
but...............
Sweets and Snacks ARE my life.

It takes a lot to admit something like that. Personally, words can not express politely what I'd like to do to whomever or whatever it was that in Tom Petty's immortal words, must have "kicked you around some" to result in such a statement.

f

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Thu May 22, 2008 3:21 pm

fkwan wrote: It takes a lot to admit something like that.

This is one of the types of Truth that is usually viewed as negative.
But I think that positive or negative depends on point of view.
and is almost always....essentially...just a value judgment.

Thank you for being kind.
Some people have had a harder time than others,
I have had an easier life than many.
In fact, I shudder as I read of you living with your mother-in-law.

We all do the best we can with what we have and where we are.

blueskighs · Post by **blueskighs** » Thu May 22, 2008 4:26 pm

Bright Angel,

thank you for pulling up this thread! It is a real gem, I pulled out some of my favorite of the insights and comments ....

I'm sick to death of counting points and weighing and measuring everything I eat. All I do is think about food! But I LOVE sugar and snacks. I can't bear the thought of not being able to eat whenever I want to. And yet my gut feeling is that I need to do the NOS Diet because it helps me get the focus off food;

this has been one of the many wonderful bennies of No S!

The great part is, once you break the addiction (which I found took 2-3 weeks) you don't crave it anymore.

another incredibly surreal bennie for those of us who were brainwashed into total sugar abstincence as the only solution!

This was developed by some woman named Wendy who realized that when she overdid it every once in a while that her weight would actually drop. No one knows why this is.

I wonder if this is because being so rigid with food and eating is so darn STRESSFUL in the long run, so that hormonally you create cortisol which stops weight loss? Of couse No S days prevent this!

There is a learned appreciation for sweets and snacks when you earn them and you know, in your heart, that you won't get fat from them, when eaten in moderation.... NoS isn't about giving up these things at all... It's about cutting out excessive use of them....

I just love that!

there is something more important about No-S. And, I think it's something that you can learn to apply to other parts of your life.

It's this: you make yourself a promise not to eat between, meals, and then you keep it. Five or six hours is not to long to keep this promise. It's hard at first, but not too hard. And with every success, you increase you capacity for success. It gets easier. You get to a point where you can change your measure of success.

This is how I looked at this No-S when I started: I can make a six hour promise; then I can make another; then just one more, and the day is over. Repeat daily.

Beautiful!

Blueskighs

Everyday Systems

Is there life after snacks and sweets?

Is there life after snacks and sweets?

Confessions of a sugar junkie.

Don't sell yourself short!