Should I bother to try again.....????

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drswife
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Should I bother to try again.....????

Post by drswife » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:33 pm

Hi All,

I'm really frustrated and in need of advice. Well I was doing fantastic on the NoS and for 8 weeks straight, I only had one red day and only one extra S day. I didn't weigh myself because I tend to get really upset if I don't see results fast enough.

I was feeling great about food and myself. Then I went on vacation to Napa for a week and decided to just not worry take a break from NoS. We ate at amazing restaurants every night and even had one meal w/ 8 courses. Well I decided to weigh myself when I came back and I weighed 3 lbs above what I started on NOS. I wish I had weighed myself before I went to see if any weight was lost before the trip to napa.

Anyway, I'm very discouraged. Why bother with all this if nothing can come of it. I know that it's peace of mind is not nothing but it's still frustrating. I would like to lose about 30-50lbs and nothing is budging. I did just start exercising which I wasn't doing before but still...I just don't know what to do.

I have been on a million diets (mostly self made ones) since I was 10 yrs old and I just can't go back to the old counting calories and/or grams of fat. I just can't live like that but am frustrated that all my hard work didn't really pay off.

Should I just hang in there, keep exercising and let whatever happen happen? Or should just forget it all and live my life?

Confused.....

L

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OrganicGal
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Post by OrganicGal » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:44 pm

I think you should go back to vanilla No S, up your exercise and do it consistantly, stick to No S when you go on holidays except allowing your yourself an extra S day (NWS days as Reinhard calls them) or two while on vacation.
Don't look for perfection, don't look for quick changes and remember this method is slow, but forever! It allows you the time and freedom to learn and grow with yourself and your eating. It builds the foundation for strong lifelong Habits.

At least that's my opinion... :)
Creating and sustaining the No S habits are the only thing that will take me in the direction I want to go!

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BrightAngel
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Re: Should I bother to try again.....????

Post by BrightAngel » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:12 pm

drswife wrote:Should I just hang in there, keep exercising and let whatever happen happen?

Or should just forget it all and live my life?

Confused.....

No S is a great diet, and it might be the one for you.
Only you can know that.

However, as an Option, you gave: "forget it all and live my life?"
That statement in context with the rest of your post indicates to me
that you are very much like me and most other overweight people.
For me, and for many, there is no "forget it all",
What "forget it all" means for me (and others) is eating what I want to eat when I want to eat it,
which causes me to gain 20, 30, 50, and more pounds
until eventually the excess fat becomes such an obvious liability
that it has to be addressed again.

For me, and for many other people, it takes "running in place" just to keep my weight the same.
If I allowed myself to "forget it all and live my life", I would be
at or near 200 lbs by the end of this year.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

Dawn
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Post by Dawn » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:26 pm

I have come to the realization that if I can't do this plan then I surely can't do any of the others that are far harder and more restrictive. Also 20 years of trying and failing those plans pretty much tells me that is true. So it's either keep working at this or be happy with my current weight - yeah right!

First of all don't beat yourself up - it doesn't help, if it did I'd come over to your house and give you a big slap in the face and then have you return the favor.

It's not too hard to see where you went wrong. An entire week of S days? Honey what were you thinking? I think you were thinking with the mind of a "dieter". Being a serial dieter myself from way back I understand this mentality and the harm it does. But you aren't on a diet, you have decided to make a lifestyle change, but you didn't want to change your "vacation style". Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

I hate to be a kill joy but you just can't consume a ton of calories and not gain weight just because you are on vacation. Vacation calories are the same as work day calories (totally unfair!).

Try to think what you could have done differently and still really enjoyed yourself. I am sure you can come up with a plan for next time. I know, why don't you post the question "how did you stay successful on vacation?" Or something like that. I bet others have some strategy advice that you could try out the next time you vacation.

You may want to weigh in every few weeks or monthly so that you can see how you are doing. I do it monthly since I lose so slowly, this way I can see something on the scale. Daily or even weekly would drive me crazy. Also you might want to weigh yourself before a vacation that way if there is a gain you know how it happened and that overall your routine is just fine and isn't to blame. Who knows maybe you hadn't lost anything so far (it took me 10 weeks to see a loss) and in reality you simply gained 3 pounds from your vacation eating - putting it that way I don't think it sounds too bad at all, I mean, it's not great, but 3 pounds in the grand scheme of things is quite manageable rather than going into denial for months on end and acting so surprised that you put back on 10 pounds.

A lifestyle change is a huge thing, it's going to take time and we are going to make mistakes, learn from them and move on.
Dawn

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Post by navi » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:51 pm

drswife, the fact that you were "feeling great about food and myself" before going on vacation is not insubstantial! perhaps this feeling of being in control & happy with food is just as important as losing those pounds quickly. that said, just because you are 3 pounds up on the scale does not necessarily mean 3 pounds of fat. it could be water retention, food in your intestines (depends on time of day you weigh yourself), etc. i personally always eat whatever the heck i want on vacations because i tend to walk everywhere & am active all day long; couple that with the fact that i am too busy to be permasnacking all day and i either LOSE weight on vacations or stay the same. so don't be too hard on yourself, get started again, and try to get back that feeling of happiness and control around food - that is what it is all about! If you vacation frequently you may want to rein it in a bit on the excess eating, but if you go on vacation once a year, live it up, enjoy, what's 3 measly pounds in the scheme of things compared to having a wonderful, memorable vacation?

drswife
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Post by drswife » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:21 pm

thanks for the responses.

Just to clarify for this particular vacation I would not have done anything differently. This was a once in a lifetime situation where we went to some of the best restaurants in the world. I just finished culinary school and was not going to pass up on that experience.

I'm not upset about gaining 3 lbs. I'm upset about being perfect for 8 weeks w/out any results.

Also, I'll pass on the slap in the face, but um thanks. Also, I'm not of the opinion that being skinny is the most important thing in the world. So if I could be 200 lbs and at peace w/ myself I'd take it anyday over being 125 lbs and obsessively watching everything that went into my mouth.

I guess I've answered my own question.


thanks again...

kccc
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Post by kccc » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:36 am

drswife wrote: I'm not upset about gaining 3 lbs. I'm upset about being perfect for 8 weeks w/out any results.
1) You don't really KNOW that there were no results, since you didn't weigh before you left. (That must be really frustrating! If you did know, it would be so much easier to decide, wouldn't it?)

2) However...No S results CAN be slow, and that can be very hard.

Only you can decide what's best for you. Do you feel No-S is "obsessively watching everything that goes into your mouth?" If so, perhaps you shouldn't start again, especially if you can accept your current weight and be at peace. (I would struggle with that one, but people are different.)

But the "feeling great" period you describe doesn't sound as if you experienced No-S that way to me... Think back to that.

Whatever you decide, I sincerely hope that it works out well for you. :)

Finnigan
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Post by Finnigan » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:47 pm

I don't see why you even bring up a term like "Start again." It sounds like you never stopped the No-S diet. You just took your vacation as S days. now go back to N days.

Be realistic. The No S Diet is NOT a weight loss diet. It is a lifestyle change that happens to have an overall effect of reducing the practitioner to, and maintaining a reasonable body weight. You do it for life, you don't stop once you hit a "target weight." You also can't expect to take a bunch of S days eating the best foods around and NOT gain weight. That was a part of the vacation experience. If I had the chance to go eat at all the best resturants for a week I'd take it too! Once the vacation is over, it's back to life as normal which includes 3 meals a day, no snack, no sweets, and no seconds except sometimes on S days.

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BrightAngel
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Post by BrightAngel » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:57 pm

Finnigan wrote:Be realistic. The No S Diet is NOT a weight loss diet.
It is a lifestyle change that happens to have an overall effect
of reducing the practitioner to, and maintaining a reasonable body weight.
You make an Excellent point.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
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Betty
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Post by Betty » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:25 pm

Your vacation sounds amazing.

But don't forget, restaurant food is so high in salt. If I go out to eat, I always weigh a kg more the next day. And who knows (sorry guys!) where you are in your cycle.

I suggest getting back to your pre vacation habits, being strict with vanilla no-s for a month, and then weighing yourself. Then you'll know if a) you need to exercise more in order to lose or b) you are doing fine.

Good luck.

Betty

drswife
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Post by drswife » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:32 pm

I think that I am/was pretty realistic. My goal was to lose 50 lbs in 2 years. After vacation, I thought I'd be at where I started or maybe a lb under. Being 3 lbs over was frustrating.

I don't feel that NoS is obsessively watching everything that goes into my mouth, but the person that was horrified I might just go live my life and become 200 lbs *gasp*, I think is a bit obsessive from the posts of read by her so that was in response to her.

I think we waste a lot of precious time focusing on losing weight, and that's why I liked NoS, it was taking that obsessive thinking away but I think any external rules to our eating eventually feels rigid and controlling. By human nature we seek freedom, and many of us will rebel against this. I think that this is the case unless we somehow create in our mind that something is a sort of "religous experience". I think that some of the ppl following this are almost cult like and that is how they convince themselves to follow someone elses random rules.

I want to be healthy and happy and free. That is why I'll find a way to exercise and eat that is personally satisfying to me and not created by someone I don't even know. I will love my body just the way it is today regardless of what society has to say about it.

Life is too short and too beautiful to be wasting energy on hating ourselves... I know that for many of you this diet feels like an act of love for oneselves but clearly for me this is not the case so I'll be moving on and finding my own path.

GL to all!

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reinhard
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Post by reinhard » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:02 pm

drswife,

Sorry about your lack of results -- but it doesn't sound like you're basing your verdict on a whole lot of data points (2 measurements?). I gained (and lost) 10 pounds in a single day, according to my scale.

It sounds like you've decided to move on from no-s -- if so, best of luck. But if you are interested in building on what you've done so far, there are a bunch of things I could suggest...

Let's say, for example, that you weren't losing weight on no-s, just maintaining, and that the week off no-s bumped you up 3 pounds. This doesn't sound like an improbable scenario based on what you've described. Assuming you enjoyed being on no-s those 8 weeks, maintenance isn't nothing. The status quo for most people these days is miserable gaining. And it might only take some slight tweaking/personalization to tip it into active progress. Where do you think the excess was creeping in? Big plates? Excessive weekends? Or maybe you really were eating moderately, and it's time to start moving moderately as well. You don't have to chuck everything out the window and start from scratch to turn maintenance into progress -- you can build on this.

Best wishes whatever you decide and sorry no-s hasn't worked better for you (at least so far),

Reinhard, aka Random Cult Leader :-)

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BrightAngel
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Post by BrightAngel » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:12 pm

drswife wrote:
The person that was horrified I might just go live my life and become 200 lbs *gasp*,
I think is a bit obsessive from the posts of read by her so that was in response to her.

I want to be healthy and happy and free.
I will love my body just the way it is today regardless of what society has to say about it.
Life is too short and too beautiful to be wasting energy on hating ourselves.
Anyone who has read very many of my prior posts should be aware that
I am a 5'0" medium to small boned woman
who spent most of my adult life over 200 lbs, with a high of 271 lbs.

I have gained and lost over 100 lbs three separate times in my life.
Each time this regain happened within about a 6 month time period,
simply by choosing to eat whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted.
Total freedom with food exacts a high price.

There are tall, large-boned women who can be attractive and in good physical health at 200 lbs or more.
However, I am not one of these women.
I learned to accept and love myself, (through many years of therapy)
even when I was extremely obese.
That does not mean that I liked being enormously fat.

It has taken a great deal of very hard work to arrive at my current size,
and it takes a great deal of hard work to stay here.
I am very aware . . .from my own history. . .
that if I decide to allow myself to simply eat what I want whenever I want,
that within 6 months to a year, I again will be 200, 270, or higher.
The only thing that would stop my body's weight ascent, would be a return to controlled eating.
Then, I would have to control what I eat. . . to diet. . .just to stay 200, 250, or 300 lbs.
I know for a fact that there is no limit to how many lbs I can gain.
Therefore, I remain viligent and committed.

Like everyone else, I also want to be happy, healthy and free.
But for me, freedom with food, exacts a price I no longer want to pay.
In order to stay happy and healthy, I have to be willing to limit and control my eating.

All diets, including No S, require limits and controls of food.
In a perfect world, I could eat whatever I want, whenever I want to
and my body would adapt to a reasonable size.
But this is not a perfect world.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
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kccc
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Post by kccc » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:55 pm

BA, given your past history, I think you've made wise choices for yourself.

However, your experience seems quite extreme to me. I don't believe I've known anyone in real life who has gained and lost that much repeatedly. I've never been close to 200, even when I ate "what I wanted." (And yes, I am taller - 5'7").

I was overweight at a couple of points, and have had to monitor my weight in the past. Now that I'm older, I do have real trouble maintaining without some boundaries. No-S provides just enough boundaries for me. In my experience, the simple rules of No-S (if I observe them carefully) are sufficient without any further scrutiny or calorie counting - and at the same time, I genuinely feel that "I'm eating what I want" NOW. (It helps that I do exercise, and actually like a lot of healthy food.)

So we have very, very different experiences.

Probably both of us should be careful about extrapolating from our own experiences too much when advising others. :)

==
Drswife, best wishes. I can see why you might think it's a bit cult-like - there's a lot of enthusiasm from those of us for whom it works. I hope you find something that works for YOU, building on your recent experiences. (And your vacation sounds as if it was just marvelous!)

navi
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Post by navi » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:23 pm

kccc, yes, we are all different. I am 5'4", pretty active but not excessively so (i just like to walk & bike alot), and at most i have been only 30pounds above ideal weight, even when eating all i want, when i want (doesn't hurt that i LOVE fruit & veggies & always have). at this point i am dealing with a combination of dissertation writing (lots of sitting + boredom + stress!) & peri-menopause, so i seem to have stalled out at the top of my range (25-30 lbs over). noS is good for me because it allows me to tweak a few things & get it under control WITHOUT counting calories or eating tasteless lowfat food (fage total yogurt (full fat) is heaven), or gagging down tons of gross meat (sorry atkins, i just can't do it). That said, i am a weakling nos-er - like drswife my very nature rebels against following random cult leaders, so i do it my way & it is working for me (a bite of dessert after meals during week, regular noS on weekend - i love a little bite of sweetness to "finish" a meal, & no way will i give that up). Reinhard, in all his wisdom, figured out a great system that worked for him, but that does not mean i have to slavishly follow every one of his rules in order for it to work for me. From reading this forum it seems that many other successful noSers have tweaked the diet one way or another, which is as it should be. it is NOT magic, you have to try it & then decide what your issues are, & work on that. The main thing I have gotten from noS is freedom from permasnacking. I love being hungry for my meals! Guess after all that rambling, i suggest that drswife perhaps take my somewhat rebellious route, figure out what she LIKED about noS when she was doing it, and modify a bit.....i am sure all you cult fanatics (just kidding!) may disagree, but one shoe does not fit all!

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BrightAngel
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Post by BrightAngel » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:48 pm

KCCC wrote:BA, given your past history, I think you've made wise choices for yourself.

However, your experience seems quite extreme to me. I don't believe I've known anyone in real life who has gained and lost that much repeatedly. So we have very, very different experiences.

Probably both of us should be careful about extrapolating from our own experiences too much when advising others.
Thanks KCCC.

The way my experience is extreme is that over many years,
I continued to struggle, seeking every bit of help available,
and did not give up.

Because of that I've had extreme success along with my extreme failure.
There are many, many very obese short women around,
and you can find several of them in every diet, online or otherwise.
I've found most of them to be relatively quiet about their situation.
I've also met and shared time with literally hundreds of other women
of all sizes and weights concerning this,
and have come to understand that all of us share a basic problem.

I learned a great deal of self-acceptance in my life,
and have been quite successful in the legal profession, which is very verbal.
Therefore I am also unusual in that I have the ability to voice
some of the important issues of this common problem.

Thank you for sharing your own experience.
Although your symptoms are less severe than mine,
our problem is the same.
Last edited by BrightAngel on Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ThomsonsPier
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Re: Should I bother to try again.....????

Post by ThomsonsPier » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:58 pm

drswife wrote:Should I just hang in there, keep exercising and let whatever happen happen? Or should just forget it all and live my life?
Aren't those the same thing?

You state that you'll find your own way to exercise and eat. That way will end up being some combination of eating less and moving more, and will still be based on a set of those rules you seem to abhor. I follow (vaguely) the No-S guidelines because I happen to agree with the reasoning behind them, not through any form of faith or inferred importance on a religious scale (yes, I know you said 'some' of the people).

Why are you trying to lose weight if you're happy with your body? You did a lot of what you refer to as 'hard work', then undid it all and wondered why you saw no results. I, for one, am here partially because this way of eating doesn't require any hard work, and doesn't take up any of the precious time you seem to think we waste on losing weight.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing, anyway Enjoy it! In my experience, with happiness comes health.
ThomsonsPier

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drswife
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Post by drswife » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:06 pm

Thanks everyone. I expected to be truly flamed for my post but you all were very generous and very uncult like d*mmit!

I am frustrated and I do need to find my own way and I do think some of it will include what I've learned from this experience. Mainly that I like to be hungry when I eat and I don't like to get overly stuffed. Basic stuff that involves pleasure and self love and all that good stuff.

so thank you and good luck to everyone as well!

:)

kccc
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Post by kccc » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:10 pm

drswife wrote:Thanks everyone. I expected to be truly flamed for my post but you all were very generous and very uncult like d*mmit!

:)
That made me laugh out loud, for real.

Please don't feel that you have to leave the forum to "find your own way." I think we all tweak a bit eventually, even though we do urge new people to give "Vanilla No-S" a shot first. (For a host of good reasons that are too long for this particular post.)

So come and go here, as is helpful for you. Just take what you can use, and let the rest go by.

:)

joasia
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Post by joasia » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:26 pm

I say celebrate what is great in your life. Even though you have 50 pounds to lose (which may make you a stick which is almost impossible to do, but I don't know that), You have a husband who is a dr. and takes you to Napa. You are so lucky! =)
The destiny of nations depends on the manner in which they feed themselves. Jean-Anthelme Brillat-Savarin

funfuture
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Post by funfuture » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:48 am

You have a husband who is a dr. and takes you to Napa. You are so lucky! =)
As a single (but happy) mum juggling this fortnight's impossible budget, that made me laugh out loud. :D

funfuture
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Post by funfuture » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:19 am

And I meant to add (I keep pressing the submit button too darn quickly) that yes...do hang in there, keep exercising and continue to live your life. No S is meant to be about finding a way of moderate eating and exercise that can be manageable within your own personal lifestyle. That's the point really. :)
Good luck with it.

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