Gnawing Appetite

john · Post by **john** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:42 am

I have been following the No-S diet for 3 weeks and the gnawing hunger between meals still makes me very uncomfortable. I have not tried the Black Bread but the oatmeal is like trying to stop a Sherman tank with a pea shooter. The whole milk makes little difference and water no difference at all. I hope somebody can offer some suggestions because I do not think I will continue more than a month or two with my wild, dumb animal called appetite. Probably I have already tried most suggestions but hope I might get one or two new ones with one that will work.

Thank you.
John

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:47 am

Try to have fruit and or salad with your meals to help fill you up.
Also, it's alright to have a small fourth meal as long as it's not a random thing and you are consistent.
As well, are you getting adequate protein in your meals? It doesn't need to be lots, but if you don't have protein for breakfast, it usually catches up on you..
Something tells me, you probably are just not having big enough portions.
Good luck!

Debs

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:50 am

Hi again John.
In addition, you mention the famous black bread Reinhard likes..
Well just so you know, he usually throws stuff on it to make it into a complete breakfast.. cheese, nuts etc... leftovers from dinner the night before..
So,,,,, don't just eat plain oatmeal or plain bread..
I'm sure you will figure something out

funfuture · Post by **funfuture** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:22 am

I find that the cooked oatmeal isn't all that filling. It works better for me if I just soak the oatmeal overnight (or soak several days worth at once) and mix it with seeds and/or nuts and dried fruit, then eat it raw. I prefer the texture, but it also fills me up much better.

I agree with Deb about the protein too. The oatmeal without nuts/seeds doesn't go far! If you aren't vegan, you might be better with cheese on toast or eggs or something to keep you going till lunchtime...

just some thoughts.

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:27 am

I confess that oatmeal doesn't keep me satiated. I've tried it several times; a good, hearty Muesli with nuts, dried fruit and fresh fruit. I eat a decent size portion too. But I am ravenous by lunch, much more hungry than if I have a grocery store sized bagel (not a humongous bagel bakery sized one) with natural peanut butter or a fruit smoothie with protein powder.

Maybe try bigger portions of more protein?

jennyp · Post by **jennyp** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:49 am

I eat oatmeal with blueberries and milk AND 2 scrambled eggs AND a regular 8-12 oz water every morning. But I also drink 2 coffees at work and more water before lunch, so I'm actually not crazy hungry at lunch. Be sure to up you water intake!!! It just helps other things in your body as well as help to keep you full.

So is your hunger the most intense from breakfast to lunch? Or is it more so at a different time of day?

I just started to take this as you will, but I was most afraid of that hungry feeling! I was really worried about it. So I decided to make my meals pretty big at the beginning. I may not finish them but I do eat more as I know it has to get me to my next meal. So eat more if you can.

Heck, screw the oatmeal! Eat a 2 egg + 2 egg white omelet (3 eggs, whatever) with whatever you want to fill it with and some toast and milk! That may just do the trick for you!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:22 am

Oatmeal doesn't hold me for more than 2 hours unless I also have nuts and dried fruit in it. I'd try more protein in your meals.

Merry

la_loser · Post by **la_loser** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:49 am

Reinhard and a lot of other No S-ers do rely on various types of oats or other cereals as a "default" meal. . . but remember that No S simply states "no sweets, no snacks and no seconds. . .except SOMETIMES on days that start with S. . . So have yourself a good sturdy meal for breakfast (and the other meals too) that you know will keep you till the next meal. If you KNOW you've eaten enough, then supplement with milk or juice or other healthy drinks (i.e. not pop/soda/coke, etc. till the next meal.

I didn't mention this before because probably every time a new poster comments about hunger between meals, etc., I tend to bring up my H2Orange solution (no pun intended. . .) and I'm sure the folks who have been around a while are tired of hearing about it!

Also, I often have eggs and bacon and toast for breakfast or a breakfast taquito (tortilla with egg/cheese/ground sausage filling). That with juice and/or milk and coffee hold me a long time. Or I make a filling sandwich and have it for breakfast. As long as it fits on one plate (reasonably), it should be ok. I do now (after about 8 weeks) occasionally have steel cut oats with lots of dried fruits/seeds/nuts-but it's taken me a while to get to that point.

I make my H2Orange drink and it keeps me happy & satisfied between meals.
http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic ... ght=#43079 is my original post but it's mentioned in other topics as well. It might help you along the way. . . but it's important to remember than even drinks with calories (that we've been conditioned to avoid" like juice or milk are ok too.

I'm sure Reinhard will echo this, but it's more important when you're first starting out to establish your habits of No Snacks, Seconds or Sweets for several weeks or even a month, no matter how "full" your plate may be--THEN you can begin to try to modify your portions, if need be. Just omitting the snacks and the sweets might be enough to begin to make a big difference. Patience is your friend! HABITS first--get them ingrained in you!

Good luck.

Midwestern Ranger · Post by **Midwestern Ranger** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:35 am

I make a homemade Chili that I find very filling. Two or three times a month I whip up a big batch of the stuff which has lean ground beef for protein and soaked dry beans for fiber. One batch is good for 6-7 individual meals, I also add fresh bell pepper and onion to every bowl for even more nutritional goodness.

Just for fun I'll put the recipe here:
8-24 hours ahead of time start soaking 1 Cup dry kidney beans in a vessel able to accommodate the beans as they expand in the water, substitute one can drained if time is tight.

On dinner night:
Spray a cooking oil into a 4 quart pot and brown 1 pound lean ground beef or bison meat. Be sure to chop the meat with a spatula as it's cooking until the morsels are fairly small, drain excess fat.

Add can of stewed tomatoes, chop the tomatoes with the spatula.
Add can of finely diced tomatoes and one can tomatoe sauce.
Add chili powder to taste, stirring thoroughly.

Bring to boil and reduce heat to simmer for one hour.

Add 2 cups chopped onion
Add 2 cups chopped celery
Add one finely chopped jalapeno and a couple of garlic gloves if desired.

Recover and simmer for another hour.

Add 1 cup chopped bell pepper and simmer for another 15 minutes or so.

Ladle out a serving into a medium size serving bowl. Add fresh chopped bell pepper and onion to taste and an once of diced cheddar plus some sour cream on the side if desired.

A bowl of this will fill you up with protein and fiber and give you many of the vitamins and minerals you need as well.

ThomsonsPier · Post by **ThomsonsPier** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:53 am

Maybe you just aren't eating enough. What's a typical day's food for you? Are you combining it with exercise?

Betty · Post by **Betty** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:01 pm

Do you LIKE oatmeal? What I mean is, don't think of this as a diet. Just because Reinhard (or anyone else) likes oatmeal or suggests it doesn't mean that you should eat it. If you want lasagne for breakfast, go for that.
Seriously. Eat what makes you happy three times a day.

That said, I do like oatmeal and it does keep me filled. But I add a heaping tablespoon of almond butter to the oats cooked with 2% milk. If I don't add the yummy fat I'm hungry three hours later too.

Post by **reinhard** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:21 pm

John,

1. Give yourself bigger meals. It's ok if it seems like (or actually is) too much. The most important thing up front is to build the habit of sticking to single plate meals. Once you get that down, you can worry about plate size if you want -- though my bet is there mere sight of those enormous plates will be sufficient disincentive in itself.

2. Try fruit juice between meals if milk doesn't cut it.

3. If worse comes to worst, add a fourth mini-meal. There's no shame in this. It's just a question of practicality -- of trading off the danger of excess sneaking in with more meals vs. the danger of failure to comply with overambitious rules.

4. Remember that habit will eventually kick in and make your hunger recede. It takes longer for some people than others, but it will happen. No one used to munch all day long like we do until the obesity epidemic, it's profoundly unnatural. It's just a matter of habit.

Don't worry about oatmeal or mestemacher -- these aren't "miracle foods." Just foods that I happen to like that are reasonably healthy and convenient and filling. The most important thing is that you like your meals and that they are sufficiently generous so you're able to hold out to the next without being miserable.

Hope something here helps -- keep bugging us if not.

Best,

Reinhard

Me Too · Post by **Me Too** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:21 pm

I usually have steel oats, 1 or 2 eggs, a small V8 and a small banana around 9:00 every morning, fills me up nicely till lunch time around 1:00.
I cook steel oats in a pressure cooker, then store the remaining in an 8X8 pan for the rest of the week.
Experiment with different combination of foods to find out what fills you up and also satisfies you.

See if there is a difference between emotional hunger and physical hunger.
Are you stressed because you fear not having a snack, or are you truly not getting enough food at mealtime. there is a fine line between the two.
If I'm feeling hungry I will have a glass of water, which 9 times out of 10 is what my body needed.
Its a learning experience, what works for one may not work for the other.
Find your own body rhythm.

blueskighs · Post by **blueskighs** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:37 pm

i am one of those that oats, even steel-cut slow cooked doesn't work well for, even with add-ons, i am not sure why they just don't satisfy me,

but i have found that a mix of amanranth, quinoa and buckwheat with 1 or 2 eggs in the morning has amazing staying power !

however when I started no s my breakfast was eggs, tofu sausage, and plain organic yogurt with fresh fruit every single morning ... it a was very full plate but it kept me from getting hungry. Over time my appetite has actually diminished and i have actually had to struggle to reduce my portions.... i.e. i must recently cut back to 1 egg for breakfast when i used to eat 2 and whipping up that one little egg doesnt "feel" quite right yet

the beauty about No S is that you get to adjust according to where you're at as each day goes by, there are times in the past few months i have been amazingly not hungry at times and i just had to figure out how to eat less, but in the beginning i really loaded up my plates. I had nice size breakfast, lunch and dinner for at least a month before my appetite started to shift.

I hope you don't give up NO S and just figure out a way to make it work for you. It is wonderful how in the long run it does become natural and you get better at assessing how much you need to eat for a given meal based on your own personal hunger and "eyeballing"

good luck in figuring it out, but again, i think figuring out what makes it work for you is definitely worth doing!

Blueskighs

jexica · Post by **jexica** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:49 pm

If I'm hungry at night waiting for dinner to be done OR after dinner, I take advantage of liquid calories not counting and have a beer. I've found that I can't even drink beer with food any more because it fills me up so much, I mean it is basically liquid bread. If you look it up, beer generally has fewer calories than juice. This really won't work during the day, at work, but to stave off the evening hunger it works for me.

edit: I took my own advice and "looked it up", most beers actually have comparable calories to the same volume of juice rather than less. If you were to only drink the correct serving size of most juices (8oz) it would probably be fewer calories than in most beers (12oz) but I find it to be less filling.

Mizmc · Post by **Mizmc** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:15 am

Hi John here is my few cents on the oatmeal thing.

I my self have RED RIVER cereal, I prefer the taste to reg oatmeal and it is very filling as it is mainly rye and flax, i know sounds funny but just try it , it is good, you can pick it up in any groc store in the cereal ilse.

I add a handful of rasins (sp) to it and that helps plus with a 1/2 teaspoon of pure maple syrup I know , I know the whole sugar thingy but that is with in the No-S guidlines and milk I am full until lunch.

if you try it let me know what you think

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:31 am

Try eating something different and/or more. "More" doesn't need to be more oatmeal, just more food -- fruit, nuts, eggs -- whatever.

Me Too · Post by **Me Too** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:13 pm

I love this way of eating so much, Reinhard didn't give us a ton of rules to follow, he laid out a simple formula for us to enter our own information into so its designed just for our individual needs.
You will find what works for you and what doesn't, just listen to your body it will tell you.

Micmz, I will have to look for Red River Rye and flax, sounds good to me. I love whole grains.
Right now I have SAMS cereal, good and whole grain cereal.

About oatmeal. I use Splenda Brown Sugar, I remember reading somewhere that Splenda is not counted as sugar, am I right?

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:23 pm

Mizmc wrote:I add a handful of rasins (sp) to it and that helps plus with a 1/2 teaspoon of pure maple syrup I know , I know the whole sugar thingy but that is with in the No-S guidlines and milk I am full until lunch.

Me Too wrote:About oatmeal. I use Splenda Brown Sugar, I remember reading somewhere that Splenda is not counted as sugar, am I right?

It's not about sugar, it's not no sugar -- it's about sweets where the majority of calories come from sugar. I use maple syrup or brown sugar on my oatmeal. About a tablespoon -- about 50 calories and worth every single one of them! I will say that I don't eat oatmeal daily, maybe twice a week during the winter. Even if I ate it daily, I'd still use the brown sugar or maple syrup.

john · Post by **john** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:22 pm

Many,many thanks to my new friends offering advice for my gnawing hunger dilemma! Hunger times are very predictable midmorning and midafternoon. I usually have a tortilla with greens and cheese before leaving for work(6:30 AM) then high fiber cereal, walnuts,raisens,soymilk when arriving at work( 8:00AM). This seems to work better if I delay that zweite FrÃ¼hstÃ¼ck(second breakfast) until closer to 10:00 AM then lunch at 1 PM.
I will try to incorporate your suggestions of increasing the size of breakfast and lunch while adding more protein.
Again, many thanks. Hopefully I can get over this hurdle and also become more comfortable using this bulletin board. Computers and I usually do not coexist comfortably.

CatholicCajun · Post by **CatholicCajun** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:23 pm

Between meals, hubby and I have a glass of orange juice with whey protein powder mixed in, it seems to help take that edge off between meals. God Bless.

clicklbd · Post by **clicklbd** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:25 am

Between meals, hubby and I have a glass of orange juice with whey protein powder mixed in

I was actually going to recommend this for the oatmeal...

I LOVE clean eating magazine. I don't always eat "clean" but I do find that I really enjoy their recipes. Anyway, they had a recipe in the latest issue for pumpkin oatmeal. You make a serving of steelcut or oldfashioned oatmeal, and add in 2T of canned pumpkin (NOT pumpkin pie filling) with some cinnamon and nutmeg. Heat that up. Then you add chopped raw almonds and a mix of vanilla protein powder (with a little milk and sweetener) drizzled on top. It's delish, and the protein powder keeps you going.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:40 am

john wrote:Many,many thanks to my new friends offering advice for my gnawing hunger dilemma! Hunger times are very predictable midmorning and midafternoon. I usually have a tortilla with greens and cheese before leaving for work(6:30 AM) then high fiber cereal, walnuts,raisens,soymilk when arriving at work( 8:00AM). This seems to work better if I delay that zweite FrÃ¼hstÃ¼ck(second breakfast) until closer to 10:00 AM then lunch at 1 PM.
I will try to incorporate your suggestions of increasing the size of breakfast and lunch while adding more protein.
Again, many thanks. Hopefully I can get over this hurdle and also become more comfortable using this bulletin board. Computers and I usually do not coexist comfortably.

John,

Sounds like you've got some very-established routines, which is why you're getting hungry. I'd approach cutting those extra meals like I'd approach weaning a child... start with the easiest to miss, and let go of it. When that's part of the routine, address the next.

You may find that gradually moving two closer together until they merge works, or limiting what is an option at one of the meals. ("Only a piece of fruit...IF I want it then." <-- that was mine when I was getting rid of my habitual afternoon snack.)

Give yourself time, and while you're doing this, make sure your meals are pleasant and satisfying.

Good luck!

ThomsonsPier · Post by **ThomsonsPier** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:02 am

john wrote:Many,many thanks to my new friends offering advice for my gnawing hunger dilemma! Hunger times are very predictable midmorning and midafternoon. I usually have a tortilla with greens and cheese before leaving for work(6:30 AM) then high fiber cereal, walnuts,raisens,soymilk when arriving at work( 8:00AM). This seems to work better if I delay that zweite FrÃ¼hstÃ¼ck(second breakfast) until closer to 10:00 AM then lunch at 1 PM.
I will try to incorporate your suggestions of increasing the size of breakfast and lunch while adding more protein.
Again, many thanks. Hopefully I can get over this hurdle and also become more comfortable using this bulletin board. Computers and I usually do not coexist comfortably.

What do you do for dinner? You haven't mentioned it here.

Me Too · Post by **Me Too** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:20 pm

Even though I'm doing Nos and loving it, I still eat like I'm on a diet by eating all the food groups. I have a carb, protein, dairy and fruit in the morning. A carb, protein, veggie and fruit for lunch, and a carb, protein, dairy and 2 veggies for dinner. I plan my meals around this combination for every meal, depending on what I want.
The true beauty of this way of eating now is I don't have to limit myself to diet foods and fat free this or that (yuck). I'm done eating like a rabbit 6 times a day. I can have a large salad with real dressing, a baked potato with butter, sour cream, bacon bits and whole grilled chicken breast if I want it or what fits on my 9"plate. I can eat real foods in moderation and even cook some of the old fashion recipes I have. In other words, I'm eating real food, not feeling deprived and enjoying my meals so much more.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:39 pm

Me Too wrote:Even though I'm doing Nos and loving it, I still eat like I'm on a diet by eating all the food groups. I have a carb, protein, dairy and fruit in the morning. A carb, protein, veggie and fruit for lunch, and a carb, protein, dairy and 2 veggies for dinner. I plan my meals around this combination for every meal, depending on what I want.
The true beauty of this way of eating now is I don't have to limit myself to diet foods and fat free this or that (yuck). I'm done eating like a rabbit 6 times a day. I can have a large salad with real dressing, a baked potato with butter, sour cream, bacon bits and whole grilled chicken breast if I want it or what fits on my 9"plate. I can eat real foods in moderation and even cook some of the old fashion recipes I have. In other words, I'm eating real food, not feeling deprived and enjoying my meals so much more.

The true beauty of this is that we can eat the way we like or are comfortable with and NOT have to eat like we're on a diet or follow a specific eating plan. I eat a variety of foods throughout the day, and while I have a general meal plan, it's not written in stone. I think variety is more important than "balance."

I usually eat very little animal protein until dinner and then have one small serving, concentrating more on fruits, veggies and beans. I eat very little dairy. I'm not big on grains, except bread, which I eat with 2 out of 3 meals.

ThomsonsPier · Post by **ThomsonsPier** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:31 pm

Me Too wrote:I still eat like I'm on a diet by eating all the food groups.

That's not 'eating like you're on a diet'. That's just 'eating'.

jexica · Post by **jexica** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:53 pm

I just wanted to share a couple of things I've discovered recently that have kept me not-hungry. I've been getting ready for some canning so there are jars floating around my kitchen. One morning I decided to do a take on the oatmeal lunch and fill about a third of a 2 cup jar with thick oats, pour on some boiling water (which cooks the oats more than coffee spigot water) and then top it with a scoop of the applesauce I made over the weekend (just mushed up apples, cooked) I think I may have added about a third of a pat of butter as well. Then I threw the top on the jar and put it in my bag and went to work. When I got there the jar was completely packed with oats and apples, it's really good. I ran out of applesauce and the butter dish has been empty in the morning so I've also made a version with frozen blueberries (from trader joe's, no added anything) and a few spoonfuls of yogurt for fat and depth. I haven't been starting to feel hungry until after 11 (eating at

and a few days I could barely finish.

I also tried an authentic Mexican restaurant near my house and work. A combo plate is a main item (mostly something on a fresh cooked corn masa base) plus beans, rice and an agua fresca (lighter than a regular fountain drink and in different flavors). Whether I finish the meal or not I don't get hungry for about twice as long as usual. It's 7:30 or 8 before I'm even thinking about food again after lunch there. I don't know if that place in particular is magical or if real mexican food is always that filling but I find it to be a real value.

Too solid flesh · Post by **Too solid flesh** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:14 pm

blueskighs wrote:the beauty about No S is that you get to adjust according to where you're at as each day goes by, there are times in the past few months i have been amazingly not hungry at times and i just had to figure out how to eat less
Blueskighs

Thank you for this, blueskighs. I have been stuck on a plateau for a while, going down a bit and up a bit. Although I have known that I need to eat a bit less and exercise a bit more, seeing your comment brought it home to me that the amount I need to eat now is less than it was when I started NoSing two and a half years ago. I have been more careful about portion control, and feel as though I am starting to make progress again.

With a lot to lose over a long time, periodic reassessment will be a good thing.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:30 am

john,
Allow yourself to eat as much as you want on S Days. You can't have gnawing hunger if you are so stufed you have to lie down. The fullness you experience on an S Day will carry over at least into the first N Day after an S Day. The beauty of this diet is that you can look forward to S Days, which are when you are guaranteed no feeling of hunger.
Kathleen

bizzybee · Post by **bizzybee** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:20 pm

I also find oatmeal just does not hold me unless its oatmeal pudding cooked with milk and one egg tempered.

I also eat a whole grain english muffin with a poached egg and canadian bacon and find I can get 4 hours out of it.

Everyday Systems

Gnawing Appetite

Gnawing Appetite

Re: Gnawing Appetite

Tame that gnawing beast within you!