Everyday Systems

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:50 pm**

Hi,

I was just wondering if any of you set yourself weight loss objectives -- for example, lose a number of lbs by a certain date, or lose a certain amount of weight per week? I've always had a tendancy to set specific objectives, and more often than not I'm disappointed because I'm not able to attain them. Since starting with No S (about a month ago), I haven't set any weight loss objective. I've only lost about 2 lbs (but that's my fault, because I haven't had too many full green days).

This week-end, I was tempted to, once again, chart a weight loss objective -- but at the same time I hesitate because it's disappointing when it's not achieved.

Do any of you set weight loss objectives, and is it a motivator for you?

Thanks,
Butterfly

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:07 pm**

I set behavioral objectives, because I can control those -- to bring my lunch every day, or to take the stairs instead of the elevator, and of course not to eat snacks, sweets, and seconds during the week!

How much I lose on a particular week or how many pounds by a certain date aren't entirely in my control -- they depend on my metabolism and hormones and all kinds of random stuff. I figue that it's not important that I lose quickly, it's just important that I lose and keep it off. (That doesn't mean I don't get frustrated when it's slow and happy when it's fast, though!)

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:28 pm**

I agree with Thalia. I am trying to change behavior, not lose X pounds by Y date.

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:52 pm**

Oh yeah, I need to have goals and objectives all the time ... The first day I started on my MASTER PLAN I made my first objective : To lose 85 pounds within a year's time ... and I'm on track to do that now ... of course now after nearly 6 months the progress is slower than when I began. I'll be happy to lose 4 to 6 pounds a month in may-june-july. I need an average a bit over 4 pounds a month until nov. 1st to reach my ultimate goal.

Then I made an objective for every month of the year, to get a rough idea how it would go ... I adjust a lil' bit up or down along the way of course.

Here's the latest version :
http://tinyurl.com/cpgsbv

I usually write it down on the first of the month. Then I divide the number of pounds to lose by 4 and that gives me my weekly objectives for the month (more or less) ... of course I adjust everything up or down a lil' bit during the month depending how it is going, etc.

I weigh myself every 4 to 5 days usually and I always have an objective for that day, I know in advance where I am supposed to be and I try to make adjustments depending if I am up or down a particular weigh in ...

The most important objective is the one I made for the whole year, then the monthly objectives are really important too ... the weekly objectives, not so much of course ... I find it's a good way to get motivated.

Cheers !

Marc

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:25 pm**

I'm with Thalia on this one as well. I am working on making it into the 21 (day) club!

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:02 pm**

I've given up on weight loss objectives because weight varies for SO MANY reasons. For most of us, following NoS means a slow but sustainable loss. If, on average, we lose two pounds of fat per month, we can step on the scale and show a higher weight which doesn't accurately reflect fat loss because of 1. water weight or 2. increased muscle weight.

Like others, I have behavioral objectives, some of which I track on habitcal and others which I don't.

Habitcal objectives: Strictly No-S, morning stretches (15 min Core conditioning), exercise (done usually in the afternoons/early evening).

Non-Habitcal objectives: enjoying two servings of fruit per day; getting in 7000 steps per day; using up ALL the veggies bought on Saturday from the fresh produce market before my next shopping trip. This can lead to some unusual meal combinations!

These non-habitcal "habits" are things that I think are worthwhile but not worthy of being "strictly" monitored. I have only so much energy for strictness and choose to expend that energy on NoS and exercise habits.

I do think it is good to have "something" to strive for, and I can more directly control "what I do" vs. "losing x pounds in y weeks."

HTH,

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:16 pm**

I do both, chart an actual weight I hope to achieve by a certain date (always reasonable) and try to be accountable for behaviors.

I always try to do the exercise bike for 14mph for 30 minutes a day (listen to my talk radio and the time flies), do the glider for 60 minutes at night, more for stretching and relaxing - altho it is good exercise. I usually just watch tv that I enjoy as I have the glider in the master bedroom.

I drink about a gallon of water a day (not that much really as I have a 20 oz giant cup that I just refill six times - 128 oz equals a gallon so it's easy to do. I also drink a lot of flavored green tea (and yes, I go to the bathroom A LOT).

Do I always succeed with my plans/goals? No, but I try.

Posted: **Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:15 pm**

I have completed 3 months of No-S, and I am just curious to see where weight will have landed when I have finished an entire year!

Posted: **Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:22 am**

I'll definitely continue to track on HabitCal -- it's easy, not time-consuming and visually very revealing. With regards to setting weight loss objectives, I think I'll just set an overall objective and chart the actuals (without assigning specific dates). I'm hoping that as long as I see the weight decreasing, I'll be encouraged to continue.

Thank you for your input.
Butterfly

Posted: **Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:20 am**

butterfly1000 wrote:Hi,

I was just wondering if any of you set yourself weight loss objectives -- for example, lose a number of lbs by a certain date, or lose a certain amount of weight per week? I've always had a tendancy to set specific objectives, and more often than not I'm disappointed because I'm not able to attain them. Since starting with No S (about a month ago), I haven't set any weight loss objective. I've only lost about 2 lbs (but that's my fault, because I haven't had too many full green days).

This week-end, I was tempted to, once again, chart a weight loss objective -- but at the same time I hesitate because it's disappointing when it's not achieved.

Do any of you set weight loss objectives, and is it a motivator for you?

Thanks,
Butterfly

I think setting goals like that is self-defeating behavior that sets one up to fail. Why? Because, like it or not, you're not in control of how much you actually lose in a week, by a certain date, in total and so on. Actually, to even believe that you're in charge of how much you lose is self-defeating. You're not in charge of that, either. I think a lot of people trying to lose that last 5-10 pounds will always feel like they failed because their bodies won't let go of that weight.

I've been watching Biggest Loser this week and the woman who was voted off last week has consistently had good weight loss, but last week gained a pound in spite of doing everything right.

What you ARE in control of is what you DO to lose weight. So your objectives should be do follow No S and exercise.

No matter what your goal is, weight loss, a new job, whatever...the only thing you're in control of is what you do to achieve it. And even that doesn't mean you'll achieve it, because there are things totally out of your control that influence the end result. Just like the song Susan Boyle sang a couple of weeks ago says, "there are dreams that cannot be." That doesn't mean you're a failure. In fact, you will have accomplished a lot.

Posted: **Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:08 pm**

My logic totally agrees with Wosnes comments, but there is a part of me that has the urge to set an objective -- even if I don't have it on paper, in my head I know what I would like it to be, and when I weigh myself I mentally compare what I see with the objective in my head. I know that my objective should be to stick to the plan (i.e. the No S plan), and the rest should take care of itself.

I've been with No S since the end of March, and April wasn't very good (many many reds)

. I'm writing this

, and I'm thinking that my sole objectives for May should be to try to not have any reds, and not weigh myself until the end of May (which will be very hard for me) -- and see what the results will be. I think I'll add the "not weighing myself until end of month" in my HabitCal.

I'll keep you posted ...

Posted: **Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:54 pm**

butterfly1000 wrote:My logic totally agrees with Wosnes comments, but there is a part of me that has the urge to set an objective -- even if I don't have it on paper, in my head I know what I would like it to be, and when I weigh myself I mentally compare what I see with the objective in my head. I know that my objective should be to stick to the plan (i.e. the No S plan), and the rest should take care of itself.

...

Why not make the objective when you look and feel well? I think the problem with a specific goal weight is that you may say 120, but your body says "no, I'm good at 130" and then you're disappointed or frustrated. So, don't make the objective concrete, make it more flexible.

Posted: **Fri May 08, 2009 7:38 pm**

I've been with No S since the end of March, and April wasn't very good (many many reds) . I'm writing this , and I'm thinking that my sole objectives for May should be to try to not have any reds, and not weigh myself until the end of May (which will be very hard for me) -- and see what the results will be. I think I'll add the "not weighing myself until end of month" in my HabitCal.

This sounds like the right kind of objective: a behavioral objective. Just as concrete as a results objective, but totally within your control.

Good luck!

Reinhard

Posted: **Fri May 08, 2009 9:31 pm**

Yes, I think the ONE thing I've taken away from the No S experience is to focus on the behavior more and the result less. I love that lesson. I think in the long run, I'm going to be the better for it. In the short run, it is more challenging. But I've tried so many short run methods that have ended up yielding great results, in the SHORT TERM, and rather disasterous ones in the long term. I'm ready to do something else.

Posted: **Sat May 09, 2009 2:25 am**

apomerantz wrote:Yes, I think the ONE thing I've taken away from the No S experience is to focus on the behavior more and the result less. I love that lesson. I think in the long run, I'm going to be the better for it. In the short run, it is more challenging. But I've tried so many short run methods that have ended up yielding great results, in the SHORT TERM, and rather disasterous ones in the long term. I'm ready to do something else.

I agree, it's a great "take-away" from No-S. And it's a lesson that generalizes to a lot of areas of life.

Posted: **Sat May 09, 2009 2:25 am**

apomerantz wrote:Yes, I think the ONE thing I've taken away from the No S experience is to focus on the behavior more and the result less. I love that lesson. I think in the long run, I'm going to be the better for it. In the short run, it is more challenging. But I've tried so many short run methods that have ended up yielding great results, in the SHORT TERM, and rather disasterous ones in the long term. I'm ready to do something else.

Posted: **Wed May 13, 2009 2:47 am**

StrawberryRoan wrote: I drink about a gallon of water a day (not that much really as I have a 20 oz giant cup that I just refill six times - 128 oz equals a gallon so it's easy to do. I also drink a lot of flavored green tea (and yes, I go to the bathroom A LOT).

If you believe NPR (and a whole raft of medical studies), you run the risk of kidney damage by doing that. I drink a lot of tea and water, but that's because some of the meds I'm on have a side effect of dry mouth. To me drinking water when I'm not thirsty would be like forcing myself to eat food I don't like because it's "healthy."

Drink that much if you want to, but drinking excessive amounts of water is by no means the benign activity you might think it would be.

Posted: **Wed May 13, 2009 12:06 pm**

I agree with 'wouldYouEva'- drinking that much water doesn't really sound like a good idea. I think it's a myth this whole idea of 'a certain number of glasses of water (usually eight per day). Actually it's been debunked that those 8 glasses are necessary; it turns out that this whole idea is based on misunderstandings & inaccurate info. Here's a link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... s-say.html

Also, here's a link to the dangers of excessive water drinking: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6263029.stm

I love drinking water, but I think the 'drink-when-you're-thirsty' rule is absolutely fine.

Posted: **Wed May 13, 2009 2:07 pm**

Strawberry isn't drinking "excessive" amounts of water. That article says several liters over a short period of time is dangerous. 4 liters in 24 hours is not excessive or dangerous. I drink close to a gallon of water a day as well. Is it necessary? No. Can I do without it? Yes, and I sometimes have to if there is not a readily available source - like when I am on vacation. But I think a lot of people would benefit from drinking a lot more water.

To go back to Butterfly's original post, I set weight loss objectives but I don't worry too much about whether or not I reach them. I'm not going to turn my life upside down in order to reach a goal by a certain date. I just keep a number in mind and look forward to the day that I will see it on the scale. The HabitCal has been amazing for me since it really has kept me accountable.

Posted: **Wed May 13, 2009 2:47 pm**

Thanks for the comments all.

No, I am not in danger of water intoxication

If that were the case, I would have perished decades ago.

We own a farm and I work a lot, and work hard. I am also an avid exerciser, doing 30-45 hard minutes on the exercise bike and an hour on the Gazelle (not so hard, more relaxing) a day.

Luckily, we have good clean, cold well water so it is a pleasure to drink.

Again, thanks.

SR

Posted: **Wed May 13, 2009 5:31 pm**

Strawberry, yes I agree that water is a pleasure to drink

In fact, personally I also drink water very often during the day (or herbal teas) when I get hunger pangs. It's interesting, sometimes we feel hungry & in fact we're thirsty actually! In any case, I was just making a general point about excessive water-drinking, which is obviously not what you're referring to

.

Posted: **Wed May 13, 2009 8:29 pm**

Cassie wrote:Strawberry, yes I agree that water is a pleasure to drink In fact, personally I also drink water very often during the day (or herbal teas) when I get hunger pangs. It's interesting, sometimes we feel hungry & in fact we're thirsty actually! In any case, I was just making a general point about excessive water-drinking, which is obviously not what you're referring to .

So true Cassie, sometimes I drink a cold glass of water and realize that I am "full", wasn't really hungry after all. I am also one of those who always drinks with a meal altho they (the experts) say not to. I always have.

By the way, I love herbal tea as well. Have hot tea every night, my current favorites are from the Celestial Seasonings fruit tea sampler - it has raspberry zinger, country peach passion, wild berry zinger, true blue berry, and black cherry berry. They are all caffein free and yummy - especially the peach.

Posted: **Thu May 14, 2009 12:03 pm**

My goal is to lose 10% of my body weight by September 8, the one year anniversary of starting this diet. I started at 215, my goal is under 193.5, and today I weigh 201.

My weight has an overall trend of down, but I am frustrated by the lack of progress in the last few months.

What this goal does is allow me to say -- I am not going to worry about the slow or even nonexistent weight loss. Isntead, I'm telling myself I'm not even going to think about it until I step on the scale on September 8. Today's weight doesn't matter.

For me, having a weight loss goal in the future allows me to focus on behavior in the present.

Kathleen

Posted: **Thu May 14, 2009 12:50 pm**

Kathleen wrote:For me, having a weight loss goal in the future allows me to focus on behavior in the present.
Kathleen

I like that thought, but how can we determine what that weight loss objective should be? - without being too strict, but at the same time if it's too slow, I tend to get discouraged. In the past, I've always set an objective of 2 lbs/week -- so far it hasn't worked. I feel that I need to set an objective, but at the same time it hasn't really motivated me to do better. Also, I have trouble not getting on the scale on a regular basis.

With me I don't think the problem is the objectives, or getting or not getting on the scale -- with me it's that the habits are not changing, which is why I agree with your comment of focusing on present behaviour. I need to focus on changing the habits

. But I also have this great urge to track what's on the scale. This is my lifelong battle that I hope to win some day.

Butterfly

Posted: **Thu May 14, 2009 9:50 pm**

I decided that any effort put towards not stepping on the scale was effort not being put towards following N Day guidelines. As for how I came up with the objective, it was just nice round numbers - 10% in a year.

My March 8 weight was 201.8, a loss of more than 6%. My May 8 weight was 200.0, a loss of 7%. Am I going to drop another 3% before September 8.

Maybe. Maybe not. Having a 1 year objective makes getting on the scale fun and not a trauma.

I tried losing 1/2 pound every week as a way to lose weight slowly. Then I gained 4 pounds on the scale.

It was the end of that diet!

Posted: **Thu May 14, 2009 10:32 pm**

I agree with those who have suggested that a certain weight should not be the end goal because you have little to no control over that. However, I do think that just focusing on behavior changes in and of themselves may not work unless you clearly see the benefits of those behavior changes. One of the reasons I think people like setting weight loss goals is that they can actually "see" the reward by the number changes on the scale.

It might be a good idea to make a list of the non-weight-related rewards that come along with the behavior changes you're making on No-S.

Posted: **Thu May 14, 2009 10:44 pm**

Butterfly, you set the goals you want to reach ...

I know I wanted to set a goal that was not years away but since I had about 85 pounds to lose I thought it should still take at least one year.

I based this on the way I lost weight previously in the early 90's (35 pounds in 100 days) How I was planning to exercise (Intense, one hour, 6 days a week) and diet (Red days kept to a minimum) That sort of thing ...

Seems like I was spot on because I am right where I am supposed to be at this time, a bit over half way through my journey, give or take half a pound.

I think the goals and the timeline depends on all those factors.

- How many pounds do you want to lose ?

- How do you plan to exercise ... daily for an hour ? ... 3 times a week for 20 minutes ?? NEVER !??!

- Strict diet without hardly any S-Days ? Regular No S ?
2 Big Macs at McDonald's 5 times a week, please. !!??

- Previous experience and gender. A young man would lose weight more easily than an older woman and you usually lose more weight when you are beginning, esp. if you are pretty heavy.

...

I knew that I could do it based on all those factors, 85 pounds in a year was not impossible to achieve. I wasn't even that FULL ON, really ... 80% of the time I am really focused and doing everything I am supposed to be doing, there's another 20% of the time that could be improved but 80% of the time being focused is still good enough for me to be in a good position to reach my year long goal in november.

Anyway, good luck and don't be depressed. Takes a lot of hard work and motivation to do this.

Cheers !

Marc

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