Interesting short essay on dieting vs. habit change

WouldYouEva · Post by **WouldYouEva** » Wed May 13, 2009 2:39 am

A friend of mine wrote up her thoughts on why dieting isn't sustainable but habit change is that I thought we might find familiar, seeing how NoS is more about the latter than the former. If you want to read it, it's posted at http://nellorat.livejournal.com/387182.html.

mimi · Post by **mimi** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:04 pm

I'd love to read your friend's essay, but for some reason that link wouldn't load for me...it came up as an error. Anyone else having that problem?

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:06 pm

Yup, link wouldn't open for me too. Could you resend?

WouldYouEva · Post by **WouldYouEva** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:10 pm

See if this works:

http://nellorat.livejournal.com/387182.html

or email me at eva@evawhitley.net and I can send an email with a working link.

It's working for me, but then, I'm on her friend's list. If it continues to be wonky, maybe I can get her permission to repost here.

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:20 pm

Yeah, have read it. She's right, it's far more sustainable & logical to work towards habit change & not weight loss (or at least not directly). Weight loss in itself gets you nowhere; you might very easily re-gain the weight (as we all sadly know). But wider habit change makes much more sense, it's the only way to keep the weight off permanently...

la_loser · Post by **la_loser** » Wed May 13, 2009 1:42 pm

I totally agree that No S is all about HABIT not DIET. . . and I believe that is where the emphasis should be.

I was a bit surprised to see the comment below regarding how "full of self-hatred, etc." the No S boards are. I guess I must have blinders on, but these boards seem so positive to me for the most part and are a place where posters are trying to free themselves from that sort of emotional sabotage. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that when someone does post something that puts themselves down, someone quickly jumps in to reassure them to not be so hard on themselves-or in KCCC's words, "Be gentle with yourself." I know I tend to be the cheerleader here and am quite defensive of NO S but hopefully anyone who checks out the No S boards will be able to determine for themselves how they feel about them. It is good to find another source to spread the word of course.

WouldYouEva said on the link posted above:

I'm happy with NoS but their message boards are, not surprisingly, full of a lot of self-hatred, food obsession, and guilt when the weekend rolls around and they can eat "S" food (snacks, sweets, and seconds). Pointing out the push to snack the food industry has reminds me a lot of consciousness raising sessions in the 70s, and seeing the fnords in another context.

And Reinhard's emphasis on no goals other than following the three rules, and talking about "before" and "during" rather than "after" seems a bit like what you're talking about. And making the metric of success "days on habit" rather than "pounds lost" seems more sustainable in the long run. I'd put NoS more in the "habit change" camp than in the "diet" camp.

So--yes--No S IS about habit. . .and getting away from obsessions, etc. --thank goodness!

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:48 pm

but their message boards are, not surprisingly, full of a lot of self-hatred, food obsession, and guilt

Our SOCIETY is full of a lot of self-hatred, food obsession, and guilt, so it would be surprising if this little message board were somehow exempt!

la_loser · Post by **la_loser** » Wed May 13, 2009 4:44 pm

I completely agree about that. . . I'm just grateful that at least here, posters find support that consistently encourages us to have a better self-image and accept ourselves!

That's one of the most refreshing things about No S I think--we tend to disallow ourselves to have pity parties! Mark it and move on! (thanks Vicki)

WouldYouEva · Post by **WouldYouEva** » Sat May 16, 2009 3:39 am

LA_Loser wrote:I totally agree that No S is all about HABIT not DIET. . . and I believe that is where the emphasis should be.

I was a bit surprised to see the comment below regarding how "full of self-hatred, etc." the No S boards are. I guess I must have blinders on, but these boards seem so positive to me for the most part and are a place where posters are trying to free themselves from that sort of emotional sabotage. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that when someone does post something that puts themselves down, someone quickly jumps in to reassure them to not be so hard on themselves-or in KCCC's words, "Be gentle with yourself." I know I tend to be the cheerleader here and am quite defensive of NO S but hopefully anyone who checks out the No S boards will be able to determine for themselves how they feel about them. It is good to find another source to spread the word of course.

So--yes--No S IS about habit. . .and getting away from obsessions, etc. --thank goodness!

I guess we see what we expect. I can post specific cites to self-hating and food obsessions, but I'm glad you don't see them. I do find women bemoaning their size who are the weight I would love to be are triggering for my self-hatred.

guadopt1997 · Post by **guadopt1997** » Mon May 18, 2009 1:18 pm

WouldYouEva wrote:[I do find women bemoaning their size who are the weight I would love to be are triggering for my self-hatred.

I have a different reaction to that. I roll my eyes at THEM

and think that they should consider themselves lucky. I think that I should emulate them in not letting my weight get so out of control but check it sooner if I start regaining. But mostly I avoid their check-ins!

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Mon May 18, 2009 2:56 pm

Sorry Eva, but I have to respectfully disagree completely with your comment that these message boards are filled with posts that are filled with self hatred.
Maybe that's a projection of your own feelings?
So far I see, even when people share their frustrations, that most people here are very optimistic and positive in describing their experiences.
That's one of the reasons I love this board and this group of people.

Have a good week.

Debs

WouldYouEva · Post by **WouldYouEva** » Tue May 19, 2009 2:35 am

Sigh. Just forget it.

Mavilu · Post by **Mavilu** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:07 am

A tip: people here isn't like the people you'll find at L.J.; "sigh, forget it" won't add anything positive to the discussion in this forum.

That said, I've gotten out of lurking to add that there is a big difference between "self- criticism" and "self-hatred"; if I say here or anywhere else that I look better without spilling out of my pants at the waist and thus I want to do something about it, it doesn't necessarily mean that I hate myself, rather that I would like a change, either buy new pants or lose some weight; if everytime that we admit to not liking something about ourselves, we are "self-hating", then, we would never improve throughout our lives; imagine: "I didn't do that well in my last report... *gasp* I'm not accepting myself as I am, I hate myself!, I think I'm not good enough as I am!, that's wrong, I'm a beautiful being just as I am" and you continue to perform so-so just as before; you wouldn't get too far in life.
This is the same, you can adopt that healthy attitude in many areas of your life, but not all of us will apply them to the same areas that you do.

Within a healthy range and with a healthy attitude, there are no limits to how much we should weight or what efforts we should do to do so; that some people don't like how they look at a weight that you would kill to be isn't an indication that they are practising "self-hatred", they might be smaller that you, shorter, older, younger, have a medical condition, be from other culture or simply have a different standard as to how they want to look; far too many greys to make it a black or white kind of thing, the self-hatred versus self-acceptance that you seem to believe in.

But, if your view of wanting to lose weight is different and feel like telling us so, by all mean, feel free to share why and how and in turn, we'll either agree or disagree with you and it will turn out into a nice debate, just like the other people that has posted in your thread.
And now, back to lurking.

StrawberryRoan · Post by **StrawberryRoan** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:29 am

Well, as a poster who doesn't have much weight to lose - let me tell you that losing ten or twenty pounds is an important issue if that if the goal one is striving toward.

I have always encouraged others who are trying to lose five pounds or one hundred and five pounds.

Who among us should decide how much weight is enough that we should not "roll our eyes" at a fellow poster?

Not me.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:33 am

I actually went and read the original post/comment, and I think I see the point WouldYouEva was trying to make... here's the line that mentions self-hatred - bold is my addition:

I'm happy with NoS but their message boards are, not surprisingly, full of a lot of self-hatred, food obsession, and guilt when the weekend rolls around and they can eat "S" food (snacks, sweets, and seconds).

The rest of the post was VERY supportive of No-S. This one line, taken out of context, seems to have created a tempest in a teapot.

To me, the critical part is the "S-days" observation. And I see her point. The tone of the board is, IMHO, generally very sane and supportive - just like the No-S plan itself. But the one place where typical diet-neurosis-thinking tends to surface is around S-days. People either don't believe they're a necessary part of the overall plan and try to restrict them, or feel guilty about what they ate... there's a good bit of angst around S-days. (And I've contributed my fair share, though I think I've gotten better over time.)

The post never said that the general tenor of the boards was self-hating. As others have said, noticing room for improvement is not the same as hatred. So, WouldYouEva simply noticed a place where many of us have some room for improvement.

Mark it and move on. And let's all be gentle with ourselves, and with each other.

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:31 pm

The reason the original link wouldn't work is that there is a period at the end of the sentence which is read as being part of the URL.

Everyday Systems

Interesting short essay on dieting vs. habit change

Interesting short essay on dieting vs. habit change

full of self-hatred?

Agreed!

Re: full of self-hatred?

Re: full of self-hatred?