What is "Normal" Eating?

[wosnes]

I've not read the whole thing yet, but it's interesting:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/2 ... al-eating/

[kccc]

The actual article is short and sweet, but there are a LOT of comments.

I would LOVE for all of us to write (maybe here, instead of on the blog) what WE think normal eating is.

Accepting, of course, that there will be a LOT of variation as people are at different states in their own journeys and our bodies do function differently.

[reinhard]

I would LOVE for all of us to write (maybe here, instead of on the blog) what WE think normal eating is.

I'd love it too, especially if you mention no-s!

Reinhard

[vmelo]

That brief article reminded me of a book I read a couple of years ago (and still have) called The Rules of Normal Eating by Karen R. Koenig. It was along the lines of several other intuitive eating books that I'd already read, but I really liked how she put things. One specific thing I remember reading is that people who have a weight problem tend to be so in awe of "normal eaters." She put it in perspective, though, by saying that just because someone is a normal eater doesn't mean that everything else in their life is up to par. Perhaps they do a terrible job of managing their finances or perhaps they have a bad track record with relationships. She said that those people just happened to have eating under control. Reading that somehow made me feel so much better.

I think this country really vilifies those who have a weight problem, making us sometimes feel weak and worthless if we have a hard time managing that one issue.

[wosnes]

I think this country really vilifies those who have a weight problem, making us sometimes feel weak and worthless if we have a hard time managing that one issue.

The thing that gets me is that not managing that issue is a relatively new thing here (last 50 years or so) and uncommon in much of the rest of the world. It's not that it hasn't existed previously or doesn't exist elsewhere -- it's that it's unusual -- not the "norm."

[buttercreampillow]

I've been thinking about this today, and I've decided that normal eating, for me, would be to have a relationship with food that was devoid of painful emotions. Pleasure, yes, and interest, but no guilt, no resentment that I can't eat what I like every minute, no fear of not having enough to eat, no shame for wanting to eat fattening foods, no anxiety that I am eating the wrong foods in the wrong amounts. Just calm and enjoyment.

I'm slowly getting there on No S. The anxiety is going away, since I know I'm eating the right way. The guilt is going because I don't binge anymore. Why should I binge when I have the rest of my life to enjoy anything I want? The fear and shame are leaving, too. After years of ignoring that old diet advice about forcing yourself to sit down at the table to eat, away from the t.v., I'm finding myself doing just that because I want to enjoy my meals. At last, there's something worth enjoying. I'm finding out that some of the foods I used to force myself to eat because I "had" to, I actually enjoy if no one's making me eat them. Meanwhile, some things that I thought I liked, like Weight Watchers yogurt, I realize I don't ever want to eat again. The Boca burgers are gathering frost in the freezer.

I have actually gotten to the point that I think I wouldn't care too much if I didn't lose any weight at all. After years of trying to develop a normal relationship with food by eating intuitively, or eating only when hungry, or embracing a "lifestyle" of substance accounting, food has become a source of pleasure. More significantly, it's very slowly becoming less important to me, being put into its rightful place.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, Reinhard.

buttercreampillow

[mimi]

I have actually gotten to the point that I think I wouldn't care too much if I didn't lose any weight at all. After years of trying to develop a normal relationship with food by eating intuitively, or eating only when hungry, or embracing a "lifestyle" of substance accounting, food has become a source of pleasure. More significantly, it's very slowly becoming less important to me, being put into its rightful place.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, Reinhard.

buttercreampillow

Buttercream, I will add my *seconds* to that! (Sorry - bad play on words! )
I believe that my decision to allow my body to decide its optimum weight stems from this newly acquired peaceful relationship with food and eating. It's really no longer important to me what that number on the scale says...healthy habits - physical AND mental - are my focus nowadays!

Mimi

[kccc]

Buttercreampillow, that's beautifully said.

I completely agree. Weight control is now a byproduct, not the main goal. Being able to ENJOY food (which I had not really allowed myself to do for years) is amazing. Like others, I am getting more in touch with what I really like and don't like, and finding that some (really a surprising number) of those things are naturally healthy.

It's a nice feeling to pass up the ever-present meeting-goodies, and not feel deprived in the slightest because (1) I'm not hungry or (b) the stuff really isn't all that appealing. (I confess I've become tremendously snobby about cookies!) It's a nice feeling to bake for me and my family on weekends, as a treat for us all - in reasonable amounts, much enjoyed, soon gone. Buttercreampillow, I particularly love your line about "why binge when I have the rest of my life to enjoy anything I want? Even in situations where there's a lot of yummy stuff, remembering that "there will be nice food again" means that I can stop when my body has has enough. That's a lovely sense of abundance.

Another byproduct is that food is simply food. It's no longer a means to cover up emotions, or procrastinate on disliked tasks... which leads to some other areas of my life getting better. But that goes far beyond "normal" eating.

[wosnes]

(I confess I've become tremendously snobby about cookies!)

Oh, my goodness! Me, too. Recently I bought some name-brand cookies at the grocery and not only didn't they taste as good as those I make, I found that they weren't as satisfying. Just like other processed food, they leave you wanting more instead of being satisfied with what you eat.

[Blithe Morning]

About the only store bought cookies I've tried that I like anymore are the Pepperidge Farm Chessman. Except for dextrose, the ingredient list is quite recognizable. And chunked up on a dish of Ben and Jerry's... now THAT'S an S day treat worth waiting for.

I wish I had a better chocolate chip cookie recipe though. Mine come out hard. Should I use shortening? I've been using only butter.

[kccc]

Shortening does soften more. When you bake with butter, they "crisp" as they cool. However, I prefer butter b/c of the transfats in shortening and b/c I like the taste better. So... I underbake slightly, and only eat them hot, when they're nice and soft.

The trick I learned from my sister is to drop the dough on a cookie sheet as if you were going to bake them (but closer together), stick the sheet in the freezer for about 10 minutes, then pull off the cookies and put them in a tupperware container in the freezer. Then, you can bake just a few cookies at a time, so they're always nice and hot and soft. (Not to mention that it impresses company no end when you can serve them hot homemade cookies in about 10 minutes...)

[BrightAngel]

I wish I had a better chocolate chip cookie recipe though. Mine come out hard. Should I use shortening? I've been using only butter.

I have an absolutely wonderful Mrs. Fields chocolate chip cookie recipe
that always comes out soft and tasty...it uses "real" butter.
Although I know sweets are okay on "S" days,
most of us are trying to take a bit of weight off so,
I hesitate to share such a high-fat, high-sugar, some-what binge triggering thing here ....
I do count calories and give the following info for those who are interested......
one very small "chessman" size cookie is 100 calories,
a medium sized "subway sandwich" size cookie is about 250 calories,
and a Mrs. Field's normal size cookie is about 375 calories.
......If anyone wants it, let me know and I will private message it to them.

[kccc]

BA, I think there's a recipe thread that you could post it on - most people would know to be careful on that thread if reading recipes is an issue for them.

And I would love the recipe if you want to either post it or PM me.

(One nice thing about cooking at home is that you can make the servings more reasonable.)

[BrightAngel]

BA, I think there's a recipe thread that you could post it on...
...I would love the recipe if you want to either post it or PM me.

I found the Thread and have posted the recipe there.

[Nichole]

I use the Toll House cookie recipe (can be found on back of chocolate chips or online) and my cookies always come out chewy and soft. You can't let them overbake.

[wosnes]

Blithe Morning -- if you think those Chessman are good, try making shortbread. You'll never bother with the Chessman again!

I think the crispness of cookies has a lot to do with the fat/sugar/flour ratios as well as the fat used. Like KCCC I use only butter (though I'm thinking about lard) and I can make cookies that are crisp or soft or chewy. What differs is how much of each is used. Check out Ratio by Michael Ruhlman.

[TunaFishKid]

From the original article -

What’s striking is that our society — particularly mainstream media — promotes habits that reject these healthy principles.

They're so right. It's striking because no one seems to notice it. Every time I turn on the morning news shows there's some "expert" telling me how many calories are in this, how many grams of fat are in that and basically promoting disordered eating.

I'm trying now to eat what I like and what makes me feel good, as was mentioned in the article. And I'm slowly getting away from the preoccupation with fat, carbs, and calories, thanks to NoS. Now when the talk turns to "healthy eating" (euphemism for losing weight) I just tune it out.

(I love that this thread has turned into a discussion of cookies, lol. Take that, food police!)

[geekmom]

I think the crispness of cookies has a lot to do with the fat/sugar/flour ratios as well as the fat used. Like KCCC I use only butter (though I'm thinking about lard) and I can make cookies that are crisp or soft or chewy. What differs is how much of each is used.

I agree and would add that the amount of baking time and the type of baking surface used can affect the crispness/softness of your cookie too. The longer you bake the cookie the more crispy it will be. Metal pans also tend to lead to crispier cookies. I have had pretty good luck using a baking stone for my cookies and baking till the cookies are "done" but still quite soft on the stone. I let them cool for at least ten minutes before I try moving them onto a cooling rack so that they will not fall apart when I try to lift them off the baking stone.

Off to find BrightAngel's cookie recipe now...

[kccc]

BA - thanks!

Laura, I'm also amused at the "cookie turn" this thread has taken.

[wosnes]

A few of the people who commented on the blog entry mentioned Michael Pollans "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly Plants."

There's an interview with Michael Pollan in the current (Sept/Oct) issue of Eating Well magazine. The interview doesn't cover anything most of us don't already know if we follow Pollan. However, he's got 3 new books coming out. One is The Omnivore's Dilemma for Kids (due out Oct 15). There's no hint at when the second and third books will be out, but one is a short book of food rules based on In Defense of Food and the other is about cooking. My guess is that the one about cooking will be similar in content to the most recent article in The New York Times "Out of the Kitchen, Onto the Couch" -- encouraging people to start cooking again.

http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5379

My guess is that the book will be based on the last two paragraphs of the article:

Crusty as a fresh baguette, Harry Balzer insists on dealing with the world, and human nature, as it really is, or at least as he finds it in the survey data he has spent the past three decades poring over. But for a brief moment, I was able to engage him in the project of imagining a slightly different reality. This took a little doing. Many of his clients — which include many of the big chain restaurants and food manufacturers — profit handsomely from the decline and fall of cooking in America; indeed, their marketing has contributed to it. Yet Balzer himself made it clear that he recognizes all that the decline of everyday cooking has cost us. So I asked him how, in an ideal world, Americans might begin to undo the damage that the modern diet of industrially prepared food has done to our health.

“Easy. You want Americans to eat less? I have the diet for you. It’s short, and it’s simple. Here’s my diet plan: Cook it yourself. That’s it. Eat anything you want — just as long as you’re willing to cook it yourselfâ€

[wintry]

Here’s my diet plan: Cook it yourself. That’s it.

LOL wosnes - that's really witty advice... but sadly, my worst pig-outs are generally ones I've cooked myself. At what other point in life does one find oneself faced with, say, an entire pan of already-purchased, piping hot brownies baked exactly the way you like them?

[wosnes]

Here’s my diet plan: Cook it yourself. That’s it.

LOL wosnes - that's really witty advice... but sadly, my worst pig-outs are generally ones I've cooked myself. At what other point in life does one find oneself faced with, say, an entire pan of already-purchased, piping hot brownies baked exactly the way you like them?

Well, if you don't eat the pan of brownies every day, maybe it's not such a problem!

Part of the rationale behind cooking from scratch is that some things are time-consuming or messy to make on a daily basis, especially if you work outside the home. It's easy to buy brownies or cookies or cake or ice cream or fried chicken or whatever and enjoy more of them more frequently than if you were to make them from scratch at home. Making them from scratch at home requires, among other things, some advance planning and time.

[wintry]

Ha ha, true... if I spent that much time in the kitchen every day I would be mocked mercilessly