Everyday Systems

I have been at No S for two weeks, consistently (I added each of the NO S's slowly until I was fully on the diet two weeks ago). I have not had any failures (My HabitCal and Daily Check in are available for observation!).

I weigh in once a week, taking the average of three days' weigh ins.

In the first week of the diet, I gained two pounds.

Now on the second week of the diet, I've gained half a pound.

Pretty discouraging stuff. I know Reinhard says to focus on behaviour, not result, but let's be honest -- I'm on this diet because I want the result of being slimmer!

I don't do the "oh, I'm discouraged, so I'll comfort eat" thing. On the contrary, I tend to batten down the hatches and prepare for bloody war on my wobbly bits.

My natural waist, over belly button, and hip measurements are all down half an inch, so hopefully the weight gain is muscle from my moderate exercise regime.

I really don't want to add any more rules -- I already eat moderately, and I know from MUCH experience that adding more rules means I'll enthusiastically follow them for six weeks, then stop them completely.

Reinhard suggests following the diet for three months, and then if we still don't lose weight, to start tweaking.

But I think I will defenestrate myself if I end up gaining weight steadily over three months.

Has anyone else experienced weight gain when starting the diet?

Signed:

Bad Mood in Birmingham

I would say don't worry about this. There are a number of reasons this could be happening, including that you might be eating significantly more at meals to make up for not snacking.

I think it is possible to gain weight at first. It took me a good month to get in the groove.... and I remember not losing anything at first, but was very pleased that I was not eating as many sweets and snacks. After a month I got up the energy to moderately work out by walking a lot. And then the pounds started dropping quickly. If your clothes are getting looser that's great... it does mean it's working. I am having that problem right now. The scale isn't moving, but I can pull all my pants down without unbuttoning them... I had to go buy more pants!

I didn't lose weight at first. Now I'm losing it very slowly. Is it possible that you're retaining water? Hormonal fluctuations and increased exercise are just two of the things that can cause that.

One thing I have noticed - on other "diets" I'd lose weight much more quickly and the inches would follow. On No-S, I'm losing the inches first and the pounds are following. I'm happy with that.

Try not ahead of time to decide what is going to happen.I know it seems you made quite an investment in time compared to other systems that promise quick weight results, but they work against the logical way that changing habits does. And, like you say, how sustainable are they? All I know is I can't go back to another so-called diet that's stricter and then have to try to figure out how much I can bend it before I go crazy. I may alter my balance of N-day foods or add S-day mods later, but I'm giving this the straight shot until the first day of spring. Maybe it's being 56 and having learned the principles of moderation 28 years ago but never found a reasonable way to implement them that makes me cling to No S. How about trying one more month and not weigh at all but rely only on waist and thigh measurements? anyway, we just don't want to see you leave dejected.

Ragdoll, I always say it's the inches that matter, not the number on the scale. None of us walks around with the scale readout taped to our chest, trying to impress strangers (well, I hope not, anyhow ). What matters is how you look, and how your clothes fit, and losing inches is what it's really about in the end, right? I'd say you're doing really well!

For me it went the other way around: plenty of pounds lost but not much change in the way my clothes fit and look after the first 20 pounds. I'd rather it was backwards...

GEEEZ!!! You just posted my complaint. I'm on my second week and gained all the 2lbs I lost on the 1st week. I only had one slip up on Monday cause I had to go to a monthly meeting from4:30 till 9:00 and snacked when I got home cause I only had a bowl of soup at 4:00 and was really hungry. I'm doing yoga and strength training everyday and a modified shovelglove with a 3lb weight. My meal portions are not huge. Just eating a moderate amount of a balanced meal. So this week I'm bummed also. FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!

love my whippets wrote:GEEEZ!!! You just posted my complaint. I'm on my second week and gained all the 2lbs I lost on the 1st week. I only had one slip up on Monday cause I had to go to a monthly meeting from4:30 till 9:00 and snacked when I got home cause I only had a bowl of soup at 4:00 and was really hungry. I'm doing yoga and strength training everyday and a modified shovelglove with a 3lb weight. My meal portions are not huge. Just eating a moderate amount of a balanced meal. So this week I'm bummed also. FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!

whippets, have you taken your measurements? With all of the strength/resistance training you are doing, I'd be willing to bet that your "gain" is actually muscle that you are building. Which is *awesome*, by the way - you are doing a LOT.

Ragdoll, maybe we are just hitting bottom before we start bouncing up!!lol I think I'm going to decrease the foods with a lot of salt, we have eaten a few packaged foods and they are loaded with salt. So I'm not eating anything not made from scratch for two weeks and see what happens.
GOOD LUCK!

Never thought of that, I wouldn't even get on a scale but I'm doing my yoga and strength training, and some aerobics on my wii, and it records and lets you know this everyday. They say with less to loose it takes longer and I want to loose about 25lbs would be a god sent. I've been struggling with this since my hormones were changed. On a very low dose which I have tried for the past two years to get off, we tried everything and nothing worked but hormones. I know they are a health risk but I had no quality of life and got terribly depressed an no sleep. Oh well I do have to say I look forward to exercising everyday. Really do feel better.

Hi
Muscle is three times as dense as fat. So, depending on how much exercise you are doing, you may just be gaining enough muscle, to mask your fat loss on the scale... But,,,If you are exercising regularly, and your size is going down, just focus on that and be happy. Isn't that what you want?? Health and a nice shapely and fit body??
The weight gain is probably very temporary. Maybe you are retaining some water. I wouldn't worry about it for at least a few months.
See how your body levels out over time and keep tracking both your weight and your size.
Good luck!
Debs

Very frustrating! I'm up a bit this week as well. Some thoughts:

Extra sodium and/or eating out can also cause weight gain. Even with fairly moderate s days, I'm usually up 1-3 pounds for a couple days afterwards because we like to eat out a couple times during the weekend.

And I always gain 2-3 pounds right before/during TOM.

Also, sometimes not eating enough (skipping meals, etc) can cause your body to go into starvation mode and hold onto weight.

I'll second the post about retaining water when you start a new exercise program. From my understanding, when you start a new exercise program, your muscles swell (I think) and cause the body to retain water. Once your body has gotten used to the new program, then the retained water goes away, and you should lose some inches and some pounds.

I remember reading about this problem in Strong Women Stay Slim - the woman was dieting and exercising and STILL GAINING WEIGHT. She was pregnant.

Probably not the culprit, but an entertaining reminder.

I'd like to point out that you ARE achieving your "result of being slimmer" you just aren't (YET!) achieving a "result of being less weighty."

Unfortunately I can't give you any solid numbers on my early days. I've never been one for weighing in, I don't think I kept any records, and it's been a while so my memory is hazy. I can tell you that I'm still on the diet and very happy with my progress over the years, both weight-wise and attitude-wise.

HunterGatherer, I think it's the "testimonies" of people like yourself that keep me going. EVERY WEEKEND (and I've been doing some form of no S for about two months now) my husband says to me worriedly, "Gosh, sweetheart, are you sure you're actually going to lose any weight? I'm sure you shouldn't be eating oreos or cherry pie. Should we try to go on another, better diet together?"

And while he's trying to be helpful, it does NOTHING to help the tiny dieter's voice in my head saying, "this isn't going to work. no way can you eat full, normal meals and lose weight".

SO I'm focusing on my four month goal of doing the diet and exercise and tracking it in HabitCal. IF after four months of doing so I don't lose weight, I'll have to say goodbye to the NO S diet, or perhaps do it with tweaks.

Focusing on the behaviour, not the result (she repeats doggedly)!

Ragdoll wrote: (and I've been doing some form of no S for about two months now) ...

Focusing on the behaviour, not the result (she repeats doggedly)!

I think you're absolutely right to focus on the behavior.

One thing that raised a red flag for me was the phrase "some form of no-S". I'd suggest being pretty strict starting out. No-S is a moderate diet, and it works, but there's not a lot of wiggle room since it's already close to what you need to maintain at an appropriate weight, if that makes sense.

Good luck!

KCCC wrote:

Ragdoll wrote: (and I've been doing some form of no S for about two months now) ...

Focusing on the behaviour, not the result (she repeats doggedly)!

I think you're absolutely right to focus on the behavior.

One thing that raised a red flag for me was the phrase "some form of no-S". I'd suggest being pretty strict starting out. No-S is a moderate diet, and it works, but there's not a lot of wiggle room since it's already close to what you need to maintain at an appropriate weight, if that makes sense.

Good luck!

By "some form of No S", I meant that over the holiday period, I began by adding each of the No S principles, one by one, over the course of two-three weeks. This was the best way for me to ensure I could stick with it -- which I have, no problems at all!

Sorry I misunderstood!

To explain a bit...I've been on the board a long time. I've seen a number of people come through, tweak No-S to pieces right away, and then be surprised when their now-non-no-S doesn't work. So I tend to advocate "do it as written" for a while first... (even though over time, variances evolve as people figure out what does/doesn't work for them after the basic habits are firmly in place).

If you're sticking to No-S, then do exactly what you described: focus on habits for a set time, then do a "check-in" to see where you are and what you need to address.

Good luck!

You might want to ask yourself how you maintained your weight prior to No S.

For me, it was 1,000 calorie per day diets for 9 days at a time. That worked until my body absolutely revolted.

If you're gaining weight on No S, I suspect you were not a natural eater prior to then. Your body has the freedom to eat what you want on the weekend, and that's wonderful.

My husband was very upset with me after my first successful week on No S. I was with his brother's family and ate so much I got a stomach ache and had to spend the afternoon in bed!

Kathleen

Your husband sounds very supportive (if a little misguided in this case).

Many people here have at one point or another avoided telling people they are on a diet because of this type of "helpful" advice.

Be patient and stick it out!

I gained weight at first - I'm not sure how much, but enough my jeans felt tight. That was very upsetting and if you look you'll find my post where I whined about it here

But I kept at it. After a few weeks, it all fell into place. It was like breaking through the clouds. My hunger diminished, my meals were smaller - not by conscious decision, I just didn't need to eat as much anymore - and my clothes started to hang on me.

I think there is just an inevitable adjustment that our bodies need to make - some are faster at it than others. Mine was a bit slow. But I absolutely believe this is the right way to do it. On other types of diets, you lose quickly in the beginning and then it slows - or even stops, because the body is adjusting - but in a way that promotes further weight gain. I know I'll lose slowly, but I'll keep on losing until my body decides I'm at my correct weight.

Dandelion wrote:I gained weight at first - I'm not sure how much, but enough my jeans felt tight. That was very upsetting and if you look you'll find my post where I whined about it here

But I kept at it. After a few weeks, it all fell into place. It was like breaking through the clouds. My hunger diminished, my meals were smaller - not by conscious decision, I just didn't need to eat as much anymore - and my clothes started to hang on me.

I think there is just an inevitable adjustment that our bodies need to make - some are faster at it than others. Mine was a bit slow. But I absolutely believe this is the right way to do it. On other types of diets, you lose quickly in the beginning and then it slows - or even stops, because the body is adjusting - but in a way that promotes further weight gain. I know I'll lose slowly, but I'll keep on losing until my body decides I'm at my correct weight.

Thanks D. I think I'm going to keep this as my mantra and encouragement -- it really DOES feel like the right way to eat. I know that because, everytime I tell people about it, and when I wrote an article on it, everyone says, "Oh yeah, that sounds really reasonable. Not really a diet, just the way we're SUPPOSED to eat".

Ragdoll wrote:My natural waist, over belly button, and hip measurements are all down half an inch, so hopefully the weight gain is muscle from my moderate exercise regime.

Has anyone else experienced weight gain when starting the diet?

Just to chime in: I agree with those urging you to keep paying attention to things other than the number on your scale. As you say, your goal is to be slimmer, but that's a question of measurements, not weight, isn't it? If you find a few months from now that your weight is unchanged but you're slimmer along every axis, and your clothes are looser, will that be a failure? I think we have such a strong tendency to think that there's a magical "right" weight that we tend to give it too much importance in our goals.

So from that perspective, a few weeks in and already measurably slimmer is a fantastic start, not a failure!

However, I bet you'll find that you do lose some weight, eventually. From all the comments I've seen (and from my own experience), the less weight you're trying to lose, the slower it'll be, and amounts in the few tens of pounds are on the slower side, from what I've seen. It's probably because being relatively slightly overweight (to the extent that this is a meaningful term) means that you haven't been eating *vastly* more than break-even amounts, so NoS won't represent as large a change for you as it might for someone with more weight to lose.

To answer your other question, though: yes, many people do find that their initial weight loss is slow, non-existent, or actually negative. It does take a while!

Very, very sensible Dave! All common sense. Biologically, it makes sense. The closer an organism's fat content gets to the bone, the harder the body holds onto it, because it needs it more!

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. This is the kind of right thinking I need to help me stick with it.

So far, I'm nearing Day 21, and have had no failures, so something to celebrate!

DaveMc wrote:

Ragdoll wrote:My natural waist, over belly button, and hip measurements are all down half an inch, so hopefully the weight gain is muscle from my moderate exercise regime.

Has anyone else experienced weight gain when starting the diet?

Just to chime in: I agree with those urging you to keep paying attention to things other than the number on your scale. As you say, your goal is to be slimmer, but that's a question of measurements, not weight, isn't it? If you find a few months from now that your weight is unchanged but you're slimmer along every axis, and your clothes are looser, will that be a failure? I think we have such a strong tendency to think that there's a magical "right" weight that we tend to give it too much importance in our goals.

So from that perspective, a few weeks in and already measurably slimmer is a fantastic start, not a failure!

However, I bet you'll find that you do lose some weight, eventually. From all the comments I've seen (and from my own experience), the less weight you're trying to lose, the slower it'll be, and amounts in the few tens of pounds are on the slower side, from what I've seen. It's probably because being relatively slightly overweight (to the extent that this is a meaningful term) means that you haven't been eating *vastly* more than break-even amounts, so NoS won't represent as large a change for you as it might for someone with more weight to lose.

To answer your other question, though: yes, many people do find that their initial weight loss is slow, non-existent, or actually negative. It does take a while!

I've also observed that people who want to lose 5-10 pounds or even slightly more might actually be at a near-ideal weight but think they should weigh less.

Congrats with your >21 days of success. That's fantastic. It may be that you would feel healthier and lose weight if you experimented with your "intelligent defaults".

I've experimented for years with the foods that are best with me, and I have learned through painful experience that I need to be conscious of glycemic index (rarely eat "white" foods or dried fruit or alcohol, never drink fruit juice, and have most fruits be the less-sugary ones), eat protein with every meal, measure three foods that I might otherwise overeat (1 oz cheese, 2 oz pasta, 1 t oil for frying an egg and 1 T oil for frying veggies), and fill 1/3-1/2 of my plate with a veggie dish. If I'm strength training, I need to make sure that I get enough protein. These are guidelines rather than rules, but incredibly important for me to feel good. And empirically it's how I've lost weight.

You may have similar rules for yourself, or entirely different ones. Now that you have the "when" to eat down, you can work on the "what", what makes you feel best.

I'm still working on this for myself.

Cantab wrote:Congrats with your >21 days of success. That's fantastic. It may be that you would feel healthier and lose weight if you experimented with your "intelligent defaults".

I've experimented for years with the foods that are best with me, and I have learned through painful experience that I need to be conscious of glycemic index (rarely eat "white" foods or dried fruit or alcohol, never drink fruit juice, and have most fruits be the less-sugary ones), eat protein with every meal, measure three foods that I might otherwise overeat (1 oz cheese, 2 oz pasta, 1 t oil for frying an egg and 1 T oil for frying veggies), and fill 1/3-1/2 of my plate with a veggie dish. If I'm strength training, I need to make sure that I get enough protein. These are guidelines rather than rules, but incredibly important for me to feel good. And empirically it's how I've lost weight.

You may have similar rules for yourself, or entirely different ones. Now that you have the "when" to eat down, you can work on the "what", what makes you feel best.

I'm still working on this for myself.

Cantab, those all sound like good intelligent defaults. For now, I'm trying to get four "21 Day" periods under my belt, and then going to focus on the "stuff". Like you said, I have to get the "when" down first, then move onto "what".

That said, I do some "stuff" regulating -- usually a bowl of cereal or bagel in the morning, and my default lunch is a can of some vegetable-based soup and a piece of bread. For dinner, when I'm hungriest (post-workout), I'm not regulating at all, except to make sure my veggies cover at least a third of my plate -- though it's usually more like half.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Stay the course, you cannot do right and go wrong.

Any weight gain will either be temporary (sodium, etc) or muscle gain.

Berry