Everyday Systems

Thought this was interesting, especially this:

No snacks, no desserts, no seconds, no big feasts, nothing.

http://www.ecosalon.com/the-poverty-die ... g-country/

Related:

http://onedollardietproject.wordpress.com/

Don't like the vegan slant, but oh well.

http://bradpilon.com/weight-loss/how-to ... -eat-more/

Brad undercuts his argument a little when he says that being poor is correlated with being obese, diabetic, and at risk for cardiovascular disease on his podcast.[/url]

The Guatemalan diet reminds me of what I've read in The Blue Zones about the Nicoyans in the mountains of Costa Rica and about the Tarahumara Indians of the Copper Canyon in Mexico in The Jungle Effect. Very simple and not a lot of variety.

The interesting thing about the Tarahumara is that they were studied because of their low rates of diabetes. Their diet is made up of over 80% carbohydrates, mostly in the form of corn.

The diet of southern Italy is often called la cucina povera. It's been thought that part of the reason Greeks have enjoyed good health is due to the frequent periods of fasting in the Greek Orthodox religion. I think they fast to one degree or another (sometimes it's the omission of certain foods) about 50% of the year.

I'm no fan of the vegan diet, but one thing all the groups have in common is consuming little meat -- though dairy and eggs might be consumed much more frequently. Sometimes it's a spiritual thing, others due to the cost and availability of meat. None totally omit it, but all eat much less of it than we do.

Wow. The report of the meals in Guatemala was a great reminder. I traveled in India, Sri Lanka, and Nepal back in the late 70's. I saw poverty, but never really knew how the local people were eating at home. Even when I was hiking in the Himalayas and staying at family-run lodging for 25 cents a night, I knew the meals tourists were offered were more sumptuous than the family ate, at least until I got to 10,000 ft. Then it was a corn meal patty and some jam for lunch.

We are so privileged.

In the movie Food, Inc. there's a family who are eating mostly fast food because they supposedly can't afford food, especially fresh produce. A lot of viewers have taken issue with this, stating that it could be afforded if they shopped at farmer's markets, etc.

A blogger recently completed a challenge spending only $25 to feed her fiance and herself on that amount for a week. The thing she had problems with? Produce. It was present, but in much smaller amounts than she was used to eating.

I noticed the absence of produce in the article about Guatemala and the couple in the One Dollar Project. If you can grow it or find it wild, it's affordable. If you can't -- it's expensive.

I don't eat at Mickey D's and I don't have a TV. Does McDonald's still do the .99 menu? A meal is gonna run ~$3 for appropriately-sized portions.

It would be a rare meal in my household that ran $3 a plate. And I do eat fresh fruits and veggies.

But, I have a car to get to the "good" (quality and cheap) grocery stores. In my area, the bus doesn't run there. The grocery store within walking distance is slightly more expensive and has lower-quality produce.

Oh, I can afford to buy staples in bulk and have a place to store them

OH! I have a wonderful large refrigerator to store meals I pre-freeze for nights I'm working too hard to have time to cook.

Oh! I own a Kitchen-Aid with a dough hook so I can bake my own bread (which is REALLY cheap).

I have been without these things and boy, howdy, let me tell you what, it's cheaper to be affluent.

Another interesting link:
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0 ... 19,00.html

Yes, I think McDonald's still has a dollar menu. I took DD there on Monday and spent about $6 on lunch for the 2 of us.

Anyway, I'm a big fan of fruality blogs and I'm amazed at how well folks can eat on a small budget. They make stuff from scratch, they buy staples when they are on sale and they stockpile, they garden.

My own family of 3 does many of these things with the exception of having a large garden and, even with eating out on a regular basis, we spend well below what the US government labels as an "economic" food budget. Granted, thankfully, we aren't living anywhere the poverty line but I have relatives -- like my 97 year old grandfather who still gardens and shops the sales -- who do live at the poverty level and they manage to eat a very healthy diet.

I have never, ever bought the idea that, for poor people, it "costs too much" to eat healthy, and that/s why they are fat. I myself, though not starving on the street, am disabled and living on a fixed income. I know for a fact that only is it not more expensive to eat healthy, it's less.

I check out the sales at the store, and stock up on veggies when they are cheap. I got 3 potatoes for a dollar, 3 bananas for 49 cents, a big tub of berries for 3 dollars, and they bunches of asparagus were on sale, too. In the canned and frozen section, you can get even better deals. Cans of beans were 49 cents. I got some frozen broccoli and carrots for a dollar. Lean ground beef was on sale for 2.49 a pound. Boxes of spaghetti were on sale for 10/10 dollars.

It would be very, very easy to cook a meal for a family of 5 for under 5 dollars, using a mix of the things above. You could make spaghetti, and make a sauce with veggies and ground beef, for cheap. You could make baked potatoes with roast veggies, and use the beef to make meatloaf. You could do lots of things. Compare that to fast food, where to get a real "meal" would cost at LEAST 4 dollars a person, and would leave no leftovers.

No, I think the real reason the obesity rates are so high among the poor is not due to the cost of veggies, but to lack of education, convenience (it's must faster to grab a burger, usually, than to cook something from scratch) and the same unfortunate tendency everyone has to overeat and gobble large amounts of low-quality food. I would like to see more educational materials targeted at lower income families, showing them that it is indeed possibly to eat both healthy AND cheap.

RJLupin wrote: No, I think the real reason the obesity rates are so high among the poor is not due to the cost of veggies, but to lack of education, convenience (it's must faster to grab a burger, usually, than to cook something from scratch) and the same unfortunate tendency everyone has to overeat and gobble large amounts of low-quality food. I would like to see more educational materials targeted at lower income families, showing them that it is indeed possibly to eat both healthy AND cheap.

It sounds as if you are doing a good job managing on a limited budget. I agree it's possible... just hard. It takes information/time/attention. (For me, the semi-comparable situation is eating reasonably with lack of time as a factor - working mom with long commute. Do-able, but takes planning/attention.)

A friend of mine says "you can have time or money, but not both." I think that to eat reasonably, you NEED one or the other. Money can let you buy foods that can be fixed quickly, provide freezer/larder space, kitchen tools that make things easier (slow cooker, etc.). Time allows you to look for bargains and make the most of them. It's the old "quality triangle" - good, fast, cheap, pick any two.

I do think those in poverty lack both the knowledge they need, but I also think they're also time-constrained. I remember reading a study where someone created a project for grad students (social work, I think - not sure) where one assignment was to go through the process of meeting all the paperwork requirements to get aid in various places without a car. The travel time on buses and the time to wait on workers, fill out forms, etc., was amazing, and tremendously draining.

And it can take more effort to get to where the cost IS reasonable. Also, I remember vividly being in a hotel for a training seminar I was leading nearby, and deciding to go to the name-brand grocery close by to pick up something from the deli instead of eating out by myself. It was an eye-opener... I was definitely in a poorer part of town, and the grocery store reflected that. Higher prices, fewer options, and the deli area consisted of rather icky (and not healthy!) pre-packaged sandwiches. It was a challenge finding a meal, when I know that in my own local grocery (same chain), I could have sushi, made-to order sandwiches, pre-packaged salads to go, etc.

All in all, it's complex. And it takes energy/attention to address the issue. (More than I think it ought, if our culture/environment were more health-oriented.)

I think it depends on where you live as well. I don't only mean metropolitan areas as compared to smaller towns, but also what state or area/region of the country.

The gal who did the $25/wk thing lives in Brooklyn, NY (I think -- I know it's one of the boroughs of NYC). Nearly all of the things she found were cheaper than I could find here in central IN.

Another blogger from CA mentioned that produce is cheaper there than in much of the rest of the country because so much of it is "local." She mentioned avocados often being 3/99¢. A really good bargain on avocados here is 99¢ each.

This is appropriate for this discussion: How Oranges Cost More than Coke