Everyday Systems

I'm curious about how many people found the 21 day thing to be true for them.

For me, I've been No Sing for around seven months and I still don't feel like the habit is really solid. After around 21 days, I had managed to make it reflex to decline office snacks/treats and after around a couple of months I'd also managed to make it habit not to go back for seconds just because it was nice but I still have 2-4 failures every month on my HabitCal.

Mostly, these failures are due to normal routine not applying on that particular day - e.g. work schedule meant eating lunch later so I succumbed to a biscuit or something - but sometimes I just fail because I really want something in the moment. I also still have huge problems with things like going round to friends for dinner and finding that they've cooked three courses. But it all makes me realise that, seven months in, I still haven't built a habit and I'm starting to wonder whether I ever will!

Personally, I think the 21-day thing is way underestimating how long it takes. However, for your purposes, I think you are very close to having the habit. One or two failures a month is not bad. It's not ideal, but goodness what were you doing 8 or 10 months ago? I know the month before I started I was eating a half a gallon of ice cream on more than one day a week. So I think a failure, in my case, of having a piece of bread an hour after dinner, is huge progress.

After nearly 5 months, I don't feel N days are automatic all the time, but they are the norm, though some days take a little more effort than others. I don't have S days down yet. I still way overeat on Saturdays.

I would say gently to look at your problems and try to see them in perspective. You have HUGE problems when dinner is 3 courses? What is the real problem? Who is doing the serving? It is perfectly possible to eat dinner in stages and still consume about the same amount as would have fit on your plate at one time. It's called virtual plating. Just remember, naturally slim people-who are not our perfect models, but they remind us of what is possible- refuse food or don't finish meals all the time. They don't eat for others. In our family's social situations, my slim brother and brother-in-law typically don't have appetizers or don't finish the formal meal. They don't give a crap what anyone says.

Anyway, I'm jumping to conclusions about what the issue is.

In a nut shell, though, people are going to adjust to the pattern they need to for life on different schedules. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you because you still think about it or grapple with the fine points. With your record, you really are down to the fine points. Regard yourself as a 90% success. That's still an A!

Often my friends will plate meals for guests rather than allowing them to help themselves but I have made huge strides in not always finishing what's on my plate. The real issue for me with three course meals is that any sweet - even if it would have fit on a plate with my other food - is a failure. I eat out at friends' houses all the time so taking a special day for them each time is not really an option either.

No S IS habit to me, and I looked back at my check-in thread to see when I first posted something that indicated it was becoming routine.

I began on September 7, 2009, and on October 13, 2009, I posted: "I don't count my days any more because this seems like the natural way to eat..." So I think in my case it was around a month or so.

KCCC posted a link to an article in this thread: http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=6094 that talks about the one deadly sin that can prevent habit change. And the deadly sin? Simply not doing the thing you want to become habit. You may not be doing No S consistently enough to form habit.

Good luck, and congratulations on the big changes you've already made!

Here's an article on habit formation that might be of interest (and it references a study):

http://www.happiness-project.com/happin ... -days.html

A paragraph that struck me:
"The study also showed that if you miss a day here or there when you’re trying to develop a habit, it doesn’t derail the process, so don’t get discouraged if you can’t keep a perfect track record. But the first days seem to make the biggest difference, so it’s worth trying to be particularly diligent at the beginning of the attempted-habit-acquisition process."

With regards to the "three course dinners," you've started framing the problem: How can I enjoy times with my friends and still eat a reasonable amount for me?
Can you...
- Virtual plate the main meal and skip the dessert
- Plan to have the dinners on weekends
- If it's a regular dinner, move an S-day to that day

You can also assess "how much does it matter?" If you're losing weight at a comfortable rate, and don't use your dinner as an excuse for excess the rest of the day, maybe a half-portion of dessert is not an issue. If you're NOT losing, or borderline, maybe it is. Listen to the "mods" podcast trilogy and see if you can identify possible solutions that will help you.

To my mind, the goal of No-S is to build a lifestyle that makes appropriate eating automatic. That means that, in the end, your life and the plan have to mesh. Adapting habits is essential, but so is looking at problem areas carefully, making adjustments, and monitoring the results. Think carefully about what's sustainable. It may be best for you to learn to say "I'm not eating dessert for a while" and have coffee or something while everyone else does (and that does get easier), but if you can't do it, then find a middle ground you CAN do.

And remember, the decision you make today does not have to be the decision you make tomorrow. "Good enough for now" may improve over time.

Good luck!

That is tricky.

Might it be appropriate to take some delicious fruit to contribute to the meals, and eat some fruit as desert?

I'm 4 months in and still havn't gotten it totally down. Most of the time it's no problem, but sometimes I still mess up. I don't take it too hard though, I feel like I'm about 90% there so I'm doing much better then before starting.

If you read my personal thread you will see how much trouble I've been having for over 5 weeks now. 21 days has done absolutely nothing for me. Reinhard said something like, 21 is a completely arbitrary number, with significance applied only by our society. It worked for him so he must think it works for everyone (just like he said something like "giving up sweets is not the problem, it's seconds and snacks" - speak for yourself, because sweets are THE issue for me!) I'm probably going to do 2/3's compliance for a while (no snacks or seconds) because five days of no dessert is too much, even after this many weeks on the plan.

While I don't do strict no-s (I eat planned snacks!!), I think that it took me a few years of research and gradual habit changing to form my current way of (mostly) healthy eating. If you are starting out with really bad habits, I think it takes a major and gradual shift to get where you want to go. Just don't give up, that's key!

Nichole wrote:While I don't do strict no-s (I eat planned snacks!!), I think that it took me a few years of research and gradual habit changing to form my current way of (mostly) healthy eating. If you are starting out with really bad habits, I think it takes a major and gradual shift to get where you want to go. Just don't give up, that's key!

Just curious, what kind of research?

I just realized that when I tried to do No-S as written, it was a constant struggle for me. I managed to do it, but not easily. It was when I adapted it to suit myself that it got easy.

I'm almost a year into doing No S now, and while I have the no snacks and no seconds parts down really well, the no sweets is still a real problem for me. I've decided to take it in baby steps right now. I've managed to go two days in a row this week without eating any sweets, and that is a real triumph for me.
I was also thinking that if it's really important for you to eat dessert while visiting with your friends, can you make sure it fits onto your one plate of food? As long as your breakfast and lunch have been sensible, if you have a dessert that fits onto your dinner plate and isn't an extra thing, I don't think you'd be overeating by too much.
I also agree with Wosnes, you may have to find a way to work at adapting No S so that it fits with your lifestyle and it's something you can do for the rest of your life. I know for me that going without sweets Mon-Fri is too much of a struggle for me right now, so I'm working on a way of incorporating sweets into my life without being too excessive with them.

leafy_greens wrote:

Nichole wrote:While I don't do strict no-s (I eat planned snacks!!), I think that it took me a few years of research and gradual habit changing to form my current way of (mostly) healthy eating. If you are starting out with really bad habits, I think it takes a major and gradual shift to get where you want to go. Just don't give up, that's key!

Just curious, what kind of research?

Just reading tons of articles and stuff online about exercising, healthy eating, etc.