maintainance

[tobia48]

How does one eat after the weight has been lost?

[wosnes]

The same way you ate while you were losing the weight. You don't do anything different to maintain than you did to lose.

[DaveMc]

The saying around here is "With NoS, you *start* with maintenance". If you've got some excess weight, it'll gradually come off, but really you're trying to establish a moderate eating habit that will keep you at a stable weight indefinitely.

[clarinetgal]

I'm pretty much in maintenance right now. I 'could' lose a few more pounds, but I don't need to, so I'm not actively trying to lose weight. Anyway, I mostly follow No S principles (I'm actually trying out Vanilla NO S again). I eat carefully most days a week, and I do allow myself some treats on the weekend, but I try not to get too excessive about it. My body has reached a set point weight range (127-129), and as long as I'm careful most of the time, I can maintain this weight range with very little effort.

[tobia48]

How does one eat after the weight has been lost?

Thanks for the information. I was just worried that I'd keep losing weight, after I reached my goal, if I continued on the plan.

[BrightAngel]

I was just worried that I'd keep losing weight, after I reached my goal, if I continued on the plan.

Speaking as one in the 5th year of Excessive Effort to maintain my goal weight,
THAT is something I'll never have to worry about.

[wosnes]

How does one eat after the weight has been lost?

Thanks for the information. I was just worried that I'd keep losing weight, after I reached my goal, if I continued on the plan.

I think a lot of people stop losing before they reach what they THINK is their goal weight. You know, close, but maybe 5-10-15 pounds away from what they think is ideal. I think our bodies have a better idea of what ideal is for us than our brains do. You can probably diet down to the weight you think is ideal, but it will always be a struggle to maintain it.

[BrightAngel]

I think our bodies have a better idea of what ideal is for us than our brains do.
You can probably diet down to the weight you think is ideal,
but it will always be a struggle to maintain it.

wosnes,
That SOUNDS like wisdom, and
it may apply to "Normal" people who've just put on a bit of weight.
However, it does not apply to the body of a "Reduced Obese" person,
and there are quite a few Obese people here on this forum.

A "Reduced Obese" person's body will continue to want to be Obese.
Almost every "Reduced Obese" person will always have to struggle
to maintain even a 10% weight loss.
In my own case, both before, and after, my WLS 18 years ago,
it was a struggle for me to maintain my weight even in the 190 lb range.
In fact....although of course I eat less here at my goal weight, than I did at 190....,
the intensity of my struggle with my body to keep from gaining is about the same.

My own viewpoint about ideal goalweight is
that since I'm going to have to intensely struggle with my body to maintain my weight,
in order to weigh less than 200 lbs +,
I might as well be do it from inside the normal weight range for my 5'0" height.

[Kathleen]

Hi BrightAngel,

To your point, here is a quote from the book The Obesity Epidemic by Michael Gard and Jan Wright:

“Even the most motivated of patients have difficulty losing a significant amount of weight and keeping it off. Many people can maintain a loss of ten or twenty pounds by watching what they eat or exercising more; few can sustain a loss of fifty, 100, or more no matter what the technique. The reason for this difficulty lies with the body’s weight-regulating system, which works to keep the body at a certain preferred weight, or set point. If you gain weight much above your set point, the extra fat stores produce more leptin, which acts as a signal to your brain to reduce your appetite and rev up your metabolism until your weight returns to normal. Conversely, if you lose weight much below your set point, your brain interprets the loss as a sign of a major problem and responds accordingly. The appetite is set on high, the metabolism on low. Doctors who have studied the so-called “reduced obese†– patients who were formerly obese but who have dropped their weight to near-normal levels – find that they share many psychological trains with victims of starvation. They think constantly about food, for instance, and they are deeply hungry in a way that a single big meal cannot assuage. If a fat person is to lose a significant amount of weight and keep it off, he must, in essence, maintain himself on a starvation diet.â€

Unlike you, I decided I'd rather be obese than feel like I'm starving all the time, and I set out to find a diet that would allow me to be both thin and comfortable. For me, the rules of The No S Diet are not sufficient for me to be thin, but I am comfortable following them. Now I'm trying to tweak the rules so that I can be thin, too!

What I've done is assume that there is a way and now I'm looking for it. Your observation that the so-called reduced obese will have to choose between discomfort and a normal weight is shared by scientists who study obesity. It seems that the outer edge of comfort is a 10% weight loss which can be achieved with additional exercise and/or mild restriction of food intake.

To me, this is the single biggest issue of weight loss. Most people can endure anything for a time, but to endure it for a lifetime is an entirely different story. I appreciate your comments so much because you have, in fact, been able to lose a significant amount of weight for a long period of time.

Meanwhile, I'm still obese and still searching... I'll die obese rather than give up on my goal of a comfortable weight loss program. My husband made a bet with me that he would take me to San Francisco for a weekend class that I want to take on posture if I get down to 140 pounds. He is of the view that I won't find that way, so he was comfortable signing up for that bet!

Kathleen

[sophiasapientia]

My own experience as a "Reduced Obese" person is that I've been able to keep the majority of the loss completely off -- close to 50 lbs -- for over 5 years by being very, very consistent with my exercise routine, etc. It is the last 20+ lbs that have been the constant struggle.

The brillance of No S, for me, has been that I am no longer fighting against my body. Yes, I need to keep up my exercise routine and yes I have to be somewhat mindful of what/how much I'm eating (i.e. I use a 9" plate and don't permasnack on S Days) but there is something so freeing about letting my body settle naturally at a healthy weight range instead of fighting tooth and nail to get there. I eat smaller portions, in large part because I'm a shorter person, but I am by no means starving. I eat perfectly normal food, food that I love, each and every day. And I get to splurge a bit on Days-that-Start-with-S

[connorcream]

You can probably diet down to the weight you think is ideal, but it will always be a struggle to maintain it.

Perhaps and perhaps not. I have continued to lose past my goal without hunger, fatigue, or brittle nails. I hit my first goal back in April, second goal in June and with my upcoming travels, I intend to continue on what I have been doing.

One thing I have been studying is how different calories (Gary Taubes) effect me differently. This is where the perhaps not may come into play. The awesome thing about journaling my food, is that I can conduct my own study of one. Do grains encourage my appetite, does fat make me fat, do I feel as full with complex carbs or just protein or fat, etc... Does my cycle play a part in my journey if so when, how, extenuating circumstances?

I was recently travelling to DC, staying with friends, no control over meals at times. I was served processed carbs (note all food was organic, clean, local, yada, yada, yada) both in type & quantity that I hadn't had in a long time. After the mac & cheese (1 cup) my rosacea flared up. In fact, my skin has been under such great control another plus for this new life style of mine. I don't have wheat allergies but this autoimmune response was quite interesting. I had a 1/2 scone the next day without the flare but I did have elevated temps for awhile.

As I didn't have much control over the menu, I took the occasion to just watch and see what symptoms would present themselves. It was time well spent.

[Kathleen]

sophiasapientia,

That's very interesting! I've always been of the mindset that one doughnut can wipe out the benefit of a morning of exercise, so why bother? I read a book on exercise a few months ago and was convinced that exercise is so important that I needed to give it a priority. Yesterday, I got a pedometer and will try walking. I think that exercise probably impacts weight management in that it affects hunger, which is why about 90% of members of the National Weight Control Registry exercise to maintain a lower weight.

Two questions for you:
1. What is your exercise routine?
2. Are you a member of the National Weight Control Registry?

Thanks!

Kathleen

[sophiasapientia]

1. What is your exercise routine?

I am an avid daily walker and, more recently, a pedometer wearer.

My "bread and butter" exercise for the last several years is that I walk for 45 minutes to an hour every day. Last year I started nordic skiwalking, which I greatly enjoy, and so I often use my poles. I walk indoors, on the treadmill or at the mall, when the weather is bad -- which is a reality here in Michigan during the winter months -- or I pop in an exercise DVD. But I make movement a priority every day. At the moment, I get up early, while my family is still sleeping, and walk. No excuses unless I'm ill.

A few months ago, I came to the conclusion that, even with my daily walk, I probably wasn't getting quite enough movement. I read a book Pedometer Walking by Mark Fenton and he said that most people need a daily average of 12,000-15,000 steps a day -- in combo w/ a moderate diet, of course -- to lose weight or maintain a large loss. With that tidbit in mind, I started wearing my pedometer and challenging myself to increase my steps via normal activity in addition to my daily walk. I average about 14,000 steps a day over the course of a week. This, in combination with NoS, really helped to kick things into gear for me. Plus, I enjoy the challenge of doing my personal best.

2. Are you a member of the National Weight Control Registry?

No. I hadn't even heard of the National Weight Registry until recently. My highest weight, in 2003, was 193. My BMI was 34.2

[Kathleen]

sophiasapientia,

I'm naturally analytical and am looking to return to work as a business analyst. Walking with a pedometer is very appealing to me because I can measure my walking! Yesterday was my first full day wearing the pedometer, and I was just shy of 9,000 steps. I'll try for 10,000 today. It's interesting to me that you are around 14,000.

By all means, apply for the National Weight Control Registry. I just asked recently, and there are only about 6,000 members. What they are trying to do is figure out the practical ways that people are able to lose 30 poudns and keep it off for at least a year. I remember reading somewhere that a large percent of the group is trying to lose even more weight, so you would qualify for the NWCR even if you aren't at your goal weight.

I'm down 16 pounds from my high almost two years ago. My goal is to be in that group, and I appreciate your reply to help me get there!

Kathleen

[sophiasapientia]

Cool! My professional background is a bit more ethereal -- I have a Master of Divinity degree and worked in professional ministry
capacity before becoming a SAHM -- but I find it very empowering to have my pedometer numbers at hand. Funny because I have *no* interest counting calories and the like. I hope that you enjoy your pedometer!

Thanks for the advice re: the National Weight Control Registry. I just filled out an application and I guess we'll see ..

[Kathleen]

sophiasapientia,
Great! Maybe Reinhard will get attention from the obesity research professionals if enough No Sers end up as participants in the National Weight Control Registry! I fully intend to be part of the group and will give a lot of credit to The No S Diet!
Kathleen

PS. Looking at a number on a pedometer gives a sense of accomplishment. Counting calories creates (at least for me) a sense of dread and almost being on the edge of a cliff. I'd always get within 5 calories of my calorie limit!

[BrightAngel]

I'd always get within 5 calories of my calorie limit!

It is unfortunate that someone with your perseverance and attention to detail
has such an aversion to calorie counting,
because those are the personality traits that makes one successful at it.

I make no secret of the fact that my success has come from counting calories,
via consistently inputing ALL of my food into a computer software program
which responds by telling me all my nutritional values, including calories.
I generally set a daily calorie goal, and use it as a Guideline.
Somedays I'm above that Guideline, and somedays I'm below it.
Just like my weight numbers on the scale, it is the overall Average that matters.

[Kathleen]

Hi BrightAngel,
I'm always interested in reading what you write. I think we do have different personalities. You said that sometimes you are above the calorie count. There's a difference for us right there. One calorie over the limit means off the edge of a cliff and into a binge. That's why I cam up with the idea of Exception Days and "perfect compliance." With the pedometer, I'm right now at 6739 steps when my goal was 10,000 steps. If I can keep the eating at where I am now trying to have it and increase my walking to 10,000 steps, I certainly think there would be a big improvement. Failing to get to 10,000 steps would not result in a backlash like it does for calorie counting. Please do keep commenting. The Good Calories, Bad Calories book gave me more confidence that fasting is a good idea for me, since hunger is more manageable than eating at low calorie levels.
Kathleen

[clarinetgal]

This has turned into a very interesting thread! Connorcream, I like what you said about paying attention to how certain kinds of calories affect you. I'm actually doing an elimination diet for the next few weeks to determine whether I have allergies to wheat, dairy, or soy (since all 3 affect my stomach at various times).
Kathleen, I'll chime in with Sophia on the importance of exercise. Exericse is good for you in SO many other ways besides weight loss (it boosts the immune system, lowers your blood sugar, etc..) That's great that you've started using the pedometer!
Brightangel, very interesting insights, as always. I must say, I'm starting to convert to more of a calorie counter. It really is a good reality check for my food intake for each day.
Sophia, So you have a divinity degree? What kind of ministry did you do? That's great that you do so much walking!

[dmarie710]

Shannon I agree with clarinetgal. How interesting you have a Divinity degree. I'm not quite sure what that is, but it sounds really great. Do tell.

[sophiasapientia]

A Master of Divinity degree is a 3 year, post college, professional degree for clergy and professional ministers. It is like getting a law degree for lawyers or a medical degree for doctors. I graduated from seminary and worked in various capacities -- college chaplaincy, in a church, with a homeless ministry, with a special needs ministry -- and was fully approved to be ordained as a priest but, through a lot of tough, heart wrenching decision making, came to terms that that (being a priest) vocation wasn't my calling. (This was around the time I became obese, actually. The stress of changing my path had a lot to do with it.) I've happily been a homemaker since my kiddo was born. I'm not sure what I'll be doing when I ultimately return to the workforce but my heart and passion lie in the areas that are less traditional/mainline.

[dmarie710]

I love the things we find out about each other. Shannon isn't life interested how things turn out. There is still so much you can do once you feel free to pursue work again. My friend works in hospice and just loves it.

[Cassie]

BrightAngel, one thing I always wonder about calorie counting: how do you account for cooked foods / whole meals? For example, an apple is easy: it's so & so calories. However if (like we did today for dinner) your meal consists of a) potato salad b) cucumber salad and c) cheese pie how would you go about counting all that? Would you have to input all recipes & divide by helpings to know what you've eaten? Just seems too complicated for me... but no doubt it works for many people!

Second question: any recommendation about pedometers? I bought one last year but found that it counted steps with no accuracy at all, even counted steps when I was moving very very little, e.g. moving while sitting on sofa! Is that normal or was the particular pedometer problematic? Or was I doing something wrong? Are they THAT sensitive to movement?

[BrightAngel]

BrightAngel, one thing I always wonder about calorie counting:
how do you account for cooked foods / whole meals?
For example, an apple is easy: it's so & so calories.
However if (like we did today for dinner) your meal consists of
a) potato salad b) cucumber salad and c) cheese pie
how would you go about counting all that?
Would you have to input all recipes & divide by helpings
to know what you've eaten?

Cassie,
Since you ask.....

The software food journal I use, has a simple function that allows me
to input label info from new foods into its food dictionary.
It also has a simple function that allows me to input new recipes,
using foods that are in its food dictionary.

I would use its search function in its food dictionary,
and find potato salad,
then input how much I ate (1/2 cup?)
Same thing with cucmber salad and cheese pie.
Each of the 3 specialized foods could be as easy for me to input as an apple.

During the past 6 years, the program has been extremely helpful to me.
Once one has input a food or a recipe once,
it is part of the program and is forever in my software dictionary.

As part of the process of entering a recipe the first time,
I have to determine how many servings are in it.
The program then immediately responds with correct nutritional values, including calories.

When I first started using the program,
I'd put in one of my favorite recipes
and divide it so that one serving was the amount I usually ate.
SURPRISE... sometimes I found that serving was TWO or THREE times
more than the calories I thought I was eating....
so then (during the initial input process) I adjusted the recipe
to a more reasonable number of servings
such as 12 servings, not 6 servings.
This taught me how much I should be eating, and
served as a Forever reminder as to just what size
my serving of that particular food should be.

When I log my food for each day, I just use the program's search function
Up comes my food or recipe,
I put whether I had 1 serving, or 1/2 serving or whatever,
and instantly I have all the nutritional values of what I ate...
or what I PLAN to eat...
....sometimes when I see the total values, I alter my plan.

I've been using it a long time now so all my standard recipes are in the Dictionary.
When I cook a new recipe, I just add it in.
I also enter as a Recipe,
frequent combinations of foods I eat,
such as a particular Sandwich or even a complete standard meal.
That way I am able to log an entire meal as easily as an apple.

If I am going to eat in a restaurant,
I plan approximately what I will eat in advance.
Look online and find that item or a similiar item,
and input the restaurant nutritional info for that food item.
Then, after my meal, I make minor changes to reflect what I actually ate.

Anytime I eat something I haven't prepared, I can always find
something similiar in the food dictionary,
or find the nutritional values of a similiar food somewhere online.
Once I put that food into the dictionary, it is there for future use.

Most people eat about the same foods month after month,
so once the initial work is done, tracking food is very easy,
and takes only a few minutes each day.
I find doing this a very enjoyable and extremely valuable HABIT.

Any Skill or Habit takes work to estabish in the beginning,
but the payoff can be remarkable.

[sophiasapientia]

Cassie -- I use an Omron pedometer and have been very pleased with it. I think I paid around $20 for it on Amazon. (ETA: Mine is an Omron walking style pocket pedometer.)

Denise -- There are certainly an interesting/neat bunch of folks here on the forums! That's so cool about your friend. I have a tremendous respect for hospice workers and ministers. Such an important and noble calling ...

[clarinetgal]

Shannon, That's very interesting about your background! Good for you on backing out of the ministry when you felt it wasn't part of your calling. I'm sure that wherever you end up once you start working again will be exactly where you're meant to be.
Bright Angel, What is the name of your software program?