Everyday Systems

I teach a writing class for a group of kids around the 11-13 age range. All the kids are great but one girl in particular is a really sweet kid. She loves to bake and creates her own recipes. Last week she brought something quite delicious and when all the moms begged for the recipe she couldn't give it out until after the fair b/c she invented the recipe and will enter it that category for a prize. Well, sweet kid that she is, she brings something almost every week.

She's just such a sweet thing. So today, when she brings some delicious thing for me, how do I say no? The part of me that wants it b/c it will surely be scrumptious is easy to deal with b/c whatever it is can be saved, even if I have to freeze it, and eaten on the weekend. However, the part of me that would rather sacrifice a limb than hurt her feelings is a little harder to deal with.

I'm not willing to count this as a floating S day or S event. We meet weekly and it's just not sustainable.

I'm not willing to do anything that isnt' a kind, loving act.

Last week I took the square (shaped like a brownie but not even like that) and set it aside after saying how lovely and delicious looking it was. I was going to let it stay till she was gone and then save it but she came around b/f they left and wanted to know how I liked it and what I thought.

So, lay it on me. How shall I approach this little problem?

I'd take a small bite after she handed it to me, then set it aside (I'd only recommend this to someone who is really confident that they could stop at one bite). I know its against the vanilla rules, but I think one small taste is worth it if you're concerned about the girl's feelings. And you don't even have to take a bite every time--maybe one week, try it, then the next set it aside and say you're not very hungry right now but will save it for after dinner. If you're really concerned about breaking the rules, you could always have one less bite at lunch or dinner to sort of compensate.

Why, Mary Grace, what an unusual name . . . and as it happens, my darling, darling, daughter's name.

I've never met anyone named Mary Grace. I do meet people who say they know one but we never meet the actual Mary Grace.

Well, I'm not much of a one bite person. I may give it a whirl but I'd rather figure out how to save it, iykwim.

I think you should tell her the truth! "I only eat sweets on weekends, so I'll save it for the weekend." If it's something that wouldn't keep well until the weekend, share it with someone (or more than one someone).

wosnes wrote:I think you should tell her the truth! "I only eat sweets on weekends, so I'll save it for the weekend." If it's something that wouldn't keep well until the weekend, share it with someone (or more than one someone).

Ditto. If the bringing of sweets was a once in a blue moon event, I probably wouldn't worry about it but given that this has become a weekly event, I would definitely tell her the truth in your own kind way.

My opinion is going to be a bit different that the others. If this were me, I would allow myself a 2 bite exception rule. So 2 bites of a yummy dessert, especially one made by such a sweet little girl that probably wants feedback I don't believe will hurt anything. But it can't go more than 2 bites and only for instances such as this. Good luck to you.

Urban Ranger, I wonder, are any of your class yet showing signs of excess weight, and your "problem pupil" in particular? I was thinking, when showing examples of good writing, how about an excerpt from Reinhard's book? Mentioning as an aside that you yourself follow those principles?

It would surely be better in the long run if your young, talented cook turned her genius away from making tasty snack foods towards more wholesome, balanced meals? Her talents and feelings don't exist in a social vacuum, she is in danger of sweetly propelling more people ever faster into America's obesity epidemic if no-one says anything to her about it.

Urban Ranger wrote:
I'm not willing to count this as a floating S day or S event. We meet weekly and it's just not sustainable.

I'm not willing to do anything that isnt' a kind, loving act.

I think you really answered you own question to this dilemma Urban Ranger. Since you meet weekly, this will be a weekly problem...so...

I intend to agree with wosnes and others...tell her the truth. There is nothing unkind about telling her why you are going to save (and look forward to) her goodies until the weekend.

Graham's idea about sharing the book might not be a bad idea either since it is a writing class. Students of this age can be extremely understanding and supportive as I'm sure you already know.
Good luck!
Mimi

Graham wrote:Urban Ranger, I wonder, are any of your class yet showing signs of excess weight, and your "problem pupil" in particular? I was thinking, when showing examples of good writing, how about an excerpt from Reinhard's book? Mentioning as an aside that you yourself follow those principles?

It would surely be better in the long run if your young, talented cook turned her genius away from making tasty snack foods towards more wholesome, balanced meals? Her talents and feelings don't exist in a social vacuum, she is in danger of sweetly propelling more people ever faster into America's obesity epidemic if no-one says anything to her about it.

My thought on this is that unless there's a specific example of Reinhard's writing that meets the goals of this class, using the No-S book isn't appropriate. Urban Ranger is teaching writing, not life skills or weight control. I also think it's not appropriate to steer this young lady towards "healthy cooking" if that's not her passion.

Here's another vote for the truth. This can be a positive; she will know that you're saving her treat for a Special Day. You may also want to consider writing her a thank you note describing exactly how much you enjoyed what she made for you. That would be something she could save and read over and over again.

I think she's a very lucky girl to have such a thoughtful, caring teacher!

wosnes wrote: My thought on this is that unless there's a specific example of Reinhard's writing that meets the goals of this class, using the No-S book isn't appropriate. Urban Ranger is teaching writing, not life skills or weight control. I also think it's not appropriate to steer this young lady towards "healthy cooking" if that's not her passion.

Agreed--it isn't a health class.

And thanks for the compliment, UrbanRanger! I, too, have heard (a few) people say they know someone named Marygrace, but never met one.

Starla wrote:Here's another vote for the truth. This can be a positive; she will know that you're saving her treat for a Special Day. You may also want to consider writing her a thank you note describing exactly how much you enjoyed what she made for you. That would be something she could save and read over and over again.

I think she's a very lucky girl to have such a thoughtful, caring teacher!

I like this one. A great combination of preserving your own boundaries combined with appreciation and kindness.

And I agree with Starla about what a great teacher you are. I loved your initial problem statement in which you said that you would not consider an alternative that was not kind and loving.

I like the idea of a thank-you note, too.

Speaking of notes...there's a teacher at a school here who sends notes to all of his students (past and present) every year on their birthday. He's been featured on the local news a couple of times because of this. He writes notes every day of the year except one -- there is one day that no one has a birthday!

wosnes wrote:I like the idea of a thank-you note, too.

Speaking of notes...there's a teacher at a school here who sends notes to all of his students (past and present) every year on their birthday. He's been featured on the local news a couple of times because of this. He writes notes every day of the year except one -- there is one day that no one has a birthday!

I just don't even know why I want to know but I can't help wondering what that day is!

Oh, you guys . . . I'm blushing!

This is a really terriffic group of girls (and two little boys) and they really make it easy to be a good teacher.

I do like the idea of letting her know how delighted I am for her that she has this special passion and gift for creating lovely things in the kitchen AND how appreciative I am for her generosity in sharing it with me and with the group. I think I'll then let her know that I'm going to save it and have it as a special treat to myself with my tea and rosary later. I won't necessarily define later but if she asks I'll tell her.

You guys are great! Thank you for the ideas and encouragement!

And it didn't come to pass this week. Their mom isn't well this week so they missed class. I'll put this plan in action next Tues and let you know how it goes.

Urban Ranger wrote:

wosnes wrote:I like the idea of a thank-you note, too.

Speaking of notes...there's a teacher at a school here who sends notes to all of his students (past and present) every year on their birthday. He's been featured on the local news a couple of times because of this. He writes notes every day of the year except one -- there is one day that no one has a birthday!

I just don't even know why I want to know but I can't help wondering what that day is!

I don't remember exactly, but I think it's in November. I tried to find the piece again, but I can't find it.

wosnes wrote:

Graham wrote:Urban Ranger, I wonder, are any of your class yet showing signs of excess weight, and your "problem pupil" in particular? I was thinking, when showing examples of good writing, how about an excerpt from Reinhard's book? Mentioning as an aside that you yourself follow those principles?

It would surely be better in the long run if your young, talented cook turned her genius away from making tasty snack foods towards more wholesome, balanced meals? Her talents and feelings don't exist in a social vacuum, she is in danger of sweetly propelling more people ever faster into America's obesity epidemic if no-one says anything to her about it.

My thought on this is that unless there's a specific example of Reinhard's writing that meets the goals of this class, using the No-S book isn't appropriate. Urban Ranger is teaching writing, not life skills or weight control.

Not sure what the point of saying something that obvious was. When you study writing, you always study writing about something - encountering ideas beyond the subject of writing is inevitable. I merely suggested the use of the No S book as a way to use that opportunity to address Urban Ranger's problem in an efficient, unobtrusive, non-hurtful way.

wosnes wrote: I also think it's not appropriate to steer this young lady towards "healthy cooking" if that's not her passion.

Why is it inappropriate to steer someone towards a ideas about healthier eating? I just don't know where you are coming from. Having a passion for something isn't sufficient reason to blindly endorse it - what if it was a passion for collecting wild bird's eggs or smoking marijuana?

Our passions occur within a context, and may have undesirable consequences, and sometime, sooner rather than later, educators have to point that out, as kindly as possible.

Why is it inappropriate to steer someone towards a ideas about healthier eating? I just don't know where you are coming from. Having a passion for something isn't sufficient reason to blindly endorse it - what if it was a passion for collecting wild bird's eggs or smoking marijuana?

Our passions occur within a context, and may have undesirable consequences, and sometime, sooner rather than later, educators have to point that out, as kindly as possible.

Yes, because a home baked good from a sweet little girl who has a talent for baking is JUST LIKE doing drugs or poaching bird eggs. That's a little dramatic, don't you think? Why are sweets now the devil? They're fine in moderation, according to the No S diet. As a former little girl myself, I would be crushed if a teacher I admired started preaching at me about healthier eating when I offered them a treat I made. Many girls that age are extremely body conscious (no matter what they weigh) and could take that the wrong way. I think telling the little girl that she will save it for the weekend or having a bite is fine, but diet advice is not appropriate in this situation, in my opinion.

sharkchick wrote: As a former little girl myself, I would be crushed if a teacher I admired started preaching at me about healthier eating when I offered them a treat I made. Many girls that age are extremely body conscious (no matter what they weigh) and could take that the wrong way. I think telling the little girl that she will save it for the weekend or having a bite is fine, but diet advice is not appropriate in this situation, in my opinion.

THIS.

Speaking as a formerly chubby kid, if she is sensitive (as I was/am), it would be a horrible thing to do. Very humiliating and hurtful, coming from a favourite teacher. It could be taken as rejection of a kind act and possibly, the assumed rejection /judgment of the child as well.

The parents might also be very unhappy to hear that someone said something to a little girl who (unbeknownst to the bystander) may already be having health problems or emotional problems.

These kinds of personal comments to children are not harmless.

That's my $0.02.

harpista wrote:

sharkchick wrote: As a former little girl myself, I would be crushed if a teacher I admired started preaching at me about healthier eating when I offered them a treat I made. Many girls that age are extremely body conscious (no matter what they weigh) and could take that the wrong way. I think telling the little girl that she will save it for the weekend or having a bite is fine, but diet advice is not appropriate in this situation, in my opinion.

THIS.

Speaking as a formerly chubby kid, if she is sensitive (as I was/am), it would be a horrible thing to do. Very humiliating and hurtful, coming from a favourite teacher. It could be taken as rejection of a kind act and possibly, the assumed rejection /judgment of the child as well.

The parents might also be very unhappy to hear that someone said something to a little girl who (unbeknownst to the bystander) may already be having health problems or emotional problems.

These kinds of personal comments to children are not harmless.

That's my $0.02.

Agreed. I used to be a chubby kid, too, and I'd feel the same way (hence my suggestion to take one or two small bites of the treat).

I definitely agree that it isn't a teacher's place to offer unsolicited dietary advice for all the reasons given.

The issue of whether to take 2 bites or save the goodies for the weekend depends on the individual. I think some folks are perfectly OK with just taking 2 bites and for others "Building a fence around the law" is an important part of building habit. If taking 2 bites is going to derail you or make you feel uneasy then I reckon it is best to -- kindly -- tell the truth and save the sweets for an S Day.

I was that sort of little girl, and I'd have been fine if my teachers/bus driver (it was usually the bus driver with me...) said "I'm saving it". I understood that sort of thing - it means you want to wait until you can really savour the deliciousness, rather than just scarfing it down out of habit
Wait, isn't that what No S is all about?

sharkchick wrote:

Why is it inappropriate to steer someone towards a ideas about healthier eating? I just don't know where you are coming from. Having a passion for something isn't sufficient reason to blindly endorse it - what if it was a passion for collecting wild bird's eggs or smoking marijuana?

Our passions occur within a context, and may have undesirable consequences, and sometime, sooner rather than later, educators have to point that out, as kindly as possible.

Yes, because a home baked good from a sweet little girl who has a talent for baking is JUST LIKE doing drugs or poaching bird eggs. That's a little dramatic, don't you think?

Yes, I made a point in dramatic fashion - "it's her passion" doesn't, by itself, place the action concerned beyond criticism or modification.

sharkchick wrote:Why are sweets now the devil? They're fine in moderation, according to the No S diet.

you accuse me here of things I never said.

sharkchick wrote:As a former little girl myself, I would be crushed if a teacher I admired started preaching at me about healthier eating when I offered them a treat I made. Many girls that age are extremely body conscious (no matter what they weigh) and could take that the wrong way. I think telling the little girl that she will save it for the weekend or having a bite is fine, but diet advice is not appropriate in this situation, in my opinion.

Here again, you accuse me of things I never suggested. The whole point of my original suggestion was that it was an indirect way of raising No S, to assist Urban Ranger and perhaps give some No S ideas wider exposure - but no "preaching" or "advice" was ever suggested.

Clearly the style of argument I used in addressing Wosnes' post obscured rather than clarified the points I wanted to address, and I have asked myself "Was my use of such a dramatic example inappropriate?" and it turns out, in this instance, the answer is "No"

As I originally stated, actions, including the production of baked "goods", happen in a context. In this case, the context I'm thinking of is the growing obesity epidemic. If you think comparing that to the issue of hard drugs is "overly dramatic" think on this - according to current U.S. statistics 8 times as many people are killed by conditions directly attributable to obesity than are killed by the use of illicit drugs.

Graham, I'll admit I misunderstood regarding the time when you thought the diet advice should be given. However, I think that giving diet advice in a writing class is inappropriate, no matter when you give it. Health and physical education classes are the perfect time for that, in my opinion.

Graham wrote: As I originally stated, actions, including the production of baked "goods", happen in a context. In this case, the context I'm thinking of is the growing obesity epidemic. If you think comparing that to the issue of hard drugs is "overly dramatic" think on this - according to current U.S. statistics 8 times as many people are killed by conditions directly attributable to obesity than are killed by the use of illicit drugs.

No one could reasonably argue that the obesity epidemic isn't a problem in the U.S., but baked goods themselves aren't directly responsible for obesity, eating more than you can burn off is. You can become overweight without ever eating a baked good and there are people who eat baked goods everyday who manage to maintain a healthy weight. So yes, I think it's overly dramatic, and a little unfair, to say the following about a little girl who enjoys baking:

Her talents and feelings don't exist in a social vacuum, she is in danger of sweetly propelling more people ever faster into America's obesity epidemic if no-one says anything to her about it.