Neuroscience research shows willpower is a limited resource

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Nicest of the Damned
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Neuroscience research shows willpower is a limited resource

Post by Nicest of the Damned » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:01 pm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... outset-box

This article discusses why it is not a good idea to try to break all your bad food habits at once, as many other diets would have you do (and try is the operative word, there).

IANANeuroscientist, but I'd bet that the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain responsible for willpower as well as short-term memory and solving abstract problems, gets overtaxed by calorie- or substance-accounting diets, and that's why they tend to fail. Quote from the article:

"...willpower is so weak, and the prefrontal cortex is so overtaxed, that all it takes is five extra bits of information before the brain starts to give in to temptation."

kccc
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Post by kccc » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:49 pm

Great article! Thanks for sharing!

I particularly liked:

"The lesson is that the prefrontal cortex can be bulked up, and that practicing mental discipline in one area, such as posture, can also make it easier to resist Christmas cookies."

Thinking about willpower as a muscle is actually pretty useful. Work at your limits, not beyond. Exercise regularly/consistently. Etc. ;)

And when you exercise your willpower enough that it becomes real habit, then it doesn't take all that effort. That's the great underlying premise of No-S (and associated systems). It's hardest AT FIRST, then gets easier.

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BrightAngel
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Re: Neuroscience research shows willpower is a limited resou

Post by BrightAngel » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:09 pm

Nicest of the Damned wrote:I'd bet that the prefrontal cortex,
the part of the brain responsible for willpower
as well as short-term memory and solving abstract problems,
gets overtaxed by calorie- or substance-accounting diets,
and that's why they tend to fail.
It doesn't HAVE to take a lot of brain power, or will power to count calories.
Again, a plug for calorie counting via the use of a software computer program.

It's really easy to remember to walk to my computer,
click the icon that opens my software food journal,
use its search function to find the food I ate,
enter the amount I ate and hit a button.
Calories counted...over and done.
A 1 to 3 minute task.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

connorcream
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Re: Neuroscience research shows willpower is a limited resou

Post by connorcream » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:07 pm

BrightAngel wrote: Calories counted...over and done.
A 1 to 3 minute task
I am amazed at how easy and quick it is concerning something absolutely vital to health. Nothing else I do is this easy and quick while being so critical to my well being.
connorcream
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10/6/2009
start/current
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Maintaining a year

marygrace
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Re: Neuroscience research shows willpower is a limited resou

Post by marygrace » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:25 pm

BrightAngel wrote:It doesn't HAVE to take a lot of brain power, or will power to count calories.
Again, a plug for calorie counting via the use of a software computer program.

It's really easy to remember to walk to my computer,
click the icon that opens my software food journal,
use its search function to find the food I ate,
enter the amount I ate and hit a button.
Calories counted...over and done.
A 1 to 3 minute task.
The act of counting calories itself can be easy, but we're talking about willpower--as in, the willpower to resist dessert or seconds or whatever food you're trying to avoid in an effort to lose weight. I used to try to count calories. Of course, it wasn't difficult to track the food that I ate and add up the numbers, but sometimes my cravings became too strong and I'd eat sweets that I wasn't supposed to. At that point, it didn't matter whether I was counting calories or doing any other kind of weight loss stratgegy--because I'd blew it for the day (or week), I'd forget the plan and just keep eating. After all, what would be the point of tallying calories if they were going to end up being super high?

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BrightAngel
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Re: Neuroscience research shows willpower is a limited resou

Post by BrightAngel » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:17 pm

marygrace wrote:After all, what would be the point of tallying calories
if they were going to end up being super high?
AH !!!
The ongoing necessary WILLPOWER exertion is merely
to get oneself to walk to the computer and input the data.

BUT the above-quote states the crux of the calorie counting issue !

The POINT is ACCOUNTABILITY,
and second POINT is HABIT.

Accountability. All of the food I eat includes calories.
My body uses these calories or stores them as fat.
There is no free ride.
Calories must be counted CONSISTENTLY...
without regard of the fact of whether it is 500 calories or 5,000 calories.
I am Accountable for what I put into my body....ALWAYS,
and therefore, I must input my food into my computer food journal ALWAYS.

Habit. In order to make calorie counting a HABIT,
I have to do it ALL of the TIME...every meal, every bite.
The easy way is to simply input that information into a software food journal..
To establish HABIT, I have to do it always...no matter what I eat..

THIS is, of course, the POINT!!!
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

connorcream
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Re: Neuroscience research shows willpower is a limited resou

Post by connorcream » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:54 pm

BrightAngel wrote: The ongoing necessary WILLPOWER exertion is merely
to get oneself to walk to the computer and input the data.


I am Accountable for what I put into my body....ALWAYS,
and therefore, I must input my food into my computer food journal ALWAYS.
Two points that stuck out. 1. I don't even have to remember to go to the computer, as if that is a difficulty of any sort. I always have my itouch/pda with me. I simply record either ahead of time, that moment, or afterwards. Most of my meals are inputted at this point, some as combo of foods, so I do not even input individual items most of the time. Less than 5 sec to record a feta, bean, pepita salad with ginger dressing and a multitude of veggies- raw and roasted, that makes any restaraunt offering pale in comparison. No walking even to a monitor. I sync up with my computer to store the data for later decision processing. Last night was budget night with DH. That took a lot more time, and equally as important to our financial health, as calorie counting is to my physical health.

The act of recording is incredibly powerful. This is why it is essential in business, law, science, religion, etc... It serves a multitude of functions, and perhaps in the area of wl accountabilty as BA succintly and eloquently points out one of the most important.

But, if your method of not counting calories and looking at your foods without knowing the nutritional values brings you the results you are looking for, I say keep on doing that. One can't argue with success.
connorcream
5'8.5"
48 yrs
Started calorie counting
10/6/2009
start/current
192/mid 120's maintaining
Maintaining a year

Nicest of the Damned
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Post by Nicest of the Damned » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:06 pm

I'm glad No S doesn't require me to keep a food journal, or count calories. If that works for you, fine. Having to record what I eat on a lot of diets is a dealbreaker, for me personally. I know I just won't do it. I'd rather spend the willpower on eating less.

marygrace
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Re: Neuroscience research shows willpower is a limited resou

Post by marygrace » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:34 pm

BrightAngel wrote:
marygrace wrote:After all, what would be the point of tallying calories
if they were going to end up being super high?
AH !!!
The ongoing necessary WILLPOWER exertion is merely
to get oneself to walk to the computer and input the data.

BUT the above-quote states the crux of the calorie counting issue !

The POINT is ACCOUNTABILITY,
and second POINT is HABIT.

Accountability. All of the food I eat includes calories.
My body uses these calories or stores them as fat.
There is no free ride.
Calories must be counted CONSISTENTLY...
without regard of the fact of whether it is 500 calories or 5,000 calories.
I am Accountable for what I put into my body....ALWAYS,
and therefore, I must input my food into my computer food journal ALWAYS.

Habit. In order to make calorie counting a HABIT,
I have to do it ALL of the TIME...every meal, every bite.
The easy way is to simply input that information into a software food journal..
To establish HABIT, I have to do it always...no matter what I eat..

THIS is, of course, the POINT!!!
Alright, maybe I didn't explain myself well enough, because of course you're right. The entire point of calorie counting is precise accountability. However, I think some people (like myself) find the idea of calorie counting so restricting that it actually ends up doing damage. It actually erodes my willpower and makes me want to rebel. Once I've rebelled and consumed more calories than my limit, I don't want to be accountable. Looking at the hard numbers is simply too depressing or defeating, and for me, it ends up turning into a vicious cycle. I go over my calories one day, try to make up for it by eating substantially less/exercising more the next day, feel extra virtuous and go over the limit the next day--you see where I'm going with this.

Of course, a person needs to stay within a certain calorie limit, give or take, to lose or maintain weight. For me, though, the simple 3-plate structure of NoS seems to effortlessly put me somewhere in that limit. So I manage my calorie intake without driving myself crazy--some days might be a little higher and some a little lower, but I'm not hyper-aware of it, so it seems to naturally balance out. For instance one night I might be out and have french fries with my dinner on an N day--not something I normally eat, but if it fits on my plate, it's legit. I'm sure those French fries have a ton more calories than I need, and it pushes my calorie count over the limit. But since I'm not tracking that closely, all I know is that I stayed within my N day limit and got to enjoy the food I wanted. Whereas if I had really, really wanted those fries and denied myself because they were maybe too high in calories, I probably would've just ended up really wanting them and stealing a bunch off my husband's plate at the end of the meal anyway.

I know calorie counting works if you can stick with it (and I commend those of you who can, because I think it takes a lot of discipline)--its simple math. However for me, after years of disordered eating behavior, it's one limit too many, and if I can maintain a healthy weight without it, I definitely will.

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Aleria
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Post by Aleria » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:45 pm

I totally agree.
As far as food goes, it takes no willpower for me not to eat snacks or sweets on weekdays, because it's a habit. Seconds aren't even a consideration, I've never eaten seconds except special occasions.
But it does take willpower to resist a matcha latte, iced cappuccino or other caloric drinks, since they aren't habit yet... and I often fail. I'm working on it though!
"I'm not here to decorate your world"
Start: January 2010: 160 pounds, 39" waist
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Nicest of the Damned
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Post by Nicest of the Damned » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:18 pm

Aleria wrote:I totally agree.
As far as food goes, it takes no willpower for me not to eat snacks or sweets on weekdays, because it's a habit.
You weren't walking by the table in the Strip district where they were selling brownies with icing and peanut butter cups on top of them. It took some willpower to resist that, let me tell you.

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Post by Aleria » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:37 pm

Nicest of the Damned wrote:
Aleria wrote:I totally agree.
As far as food goes, it takes no willpower for me not to eat snacks or sweets on weekdays, because it's a habit.
You weren't walking by the table in the Strip district where they were selling brownies with icing and peanut butter cups on top of them. It took some willpower to resist that, let me tell you.
I suppose I haven't mentioned that sweet things tend to make my teeth hurt unless I eat them whilst drinking tea... it definitely helps convince me not to eat things unexpectedly like that!
"I'm not here to decorate your world"
Start: January 2010: 160 pounds, 39" waist
During: December 2010: 152 pounds, 33" waist

TPIMH
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Post by TPIMH » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:20 pm

I'm a newbie to No S, but I have to agree that the thing that enticed me to No S was actually not having to write down every single thing I ate. I've been a Weight Watcher member for as long as I can remember. I get to a certain point, and then I get so annoyed with having to constantly think about food. I get annoyed with having to slip away to the computer to calculate what I can eat; having that constant monologue in my head of "what I have I eaten today, and how many points do I have left?" I think that's why I give up after loosing 30-40 pounds, and the weight comes back on. (but that's just my hang-up!)

I'm still not convinced that No S is completely the answer to my weight issue, but I'm willing to give a shot. I just finished week 1, and I'm down 3.1 pounds, so that's a pretty start. My willpower has been focused on the "No sweets" rule, because that was/is my biggest issue. I'm sticking to the other two rules, but they're not as challenging for me right now, so I can at least channel my willpower to one area. Hopefully, this will all be habit before long, and less willpower will be required overall.
On the road to a healthier me!

http://thepictureinmyhead.wordpress.com/

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Post by Nicest of the Damned » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:05 pm

TPIMH wrote:I'm a newbie to No S, but I have to agree that the thing that enticed me to No S was actually not having to write down every single thing I ate.
Same here. In fact, having to write down what I ate, or calculate anything, was pretty much a deal-breaker for a diet for me. I know myself far too well to think I'll do those things for any length of time.

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reinhard
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Post by reinhard » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:46 pm

Thanks for the link!

A few relevant blurbs from the book:

Page 14:
The No S Diet gives maintenance its proper focus.
It does this by treating weight control as a mental
problem, not a physical one. It focuses on incentives
and enforceability, on leveraging limited reserves of
willpower
to build sustainable habits. The simple, natural,
unobtrusive behaviors it prescribes soon become
automatic.

Page 98:
The divide between normal days (N days) and S
days is a very natural one, and it jives well with the
way society is set up. Most of us work during the week
and not on weekends and holidays. It’s a powerful,
preexisting, externally supported rhythm that the No S
Diet and other good habits can tap into. The No S Diet
asks only that you think of rules and routine when
you are already in that frame of mind, when you’re
also engaged in the rules and routines of working life,
and it lets you relax when you are already relaxing. It
demands that you comply only when you’re best prepared
to comply and doesn’t make any demands of you
when it would be most difficult, a very efficient use of
your limited reserves of willpower
.
Lots more where these came from here: :-)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... aysyste-20

Reinhard

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