Two months and it isnt working

[IslandLover]

I heard about the No S Diet two months ago, immediately got the book and read it from start to finish. I have been struggling with the same 20 pounds for 3 years, I will gain it and then lose it. My goal is to lose a total of 40 pounds. I have tried so many diets out there in the past 3 years and the only way I have really been able to drop the weight is to pretty much starve myself. And of course as soon as I start eating normal again, it all starts coming back. I have no problem with exercise, I could possibly be overworking out actually. I know my problem has to be on the food side.

When I first heard about the No S Diet, it seemed like heaven to me because I am a very picky eater and was so frustrated with obsessing constantly over trying to eat right. I had just stopped a diet where I hate 6-7 small meals every day. I lost about 15 pounds on that the first month and then didnt lose anything for the next 3 months even though I worked out religously. I was really hoping that this diet would solve everyting for me. Honestly, I love the concept, I have never been happier with this process, I still get to eat the things I enjoy every day and still get to enjoy desserts and things on the weekends. I mainly drink water every day, I might have one diet coke a day but not even every day. I am finishing up my 2nd full month on this diet and have not lost a single pound. I probably added an extra S day twice each month due to my birthday and my mothers birthday but other than that, I have been very good at following the rules.

Are there some people out there that this plan just will not work for? Anyone have any suggestions or questions so that I could figure out a way to be more successful? I was really hoping to lose 3-5 pounds a month. I would love to stick with this but need some tips and inspiration please.

[wosnes]

Before I answer:

Are you loading your plates so that you won't be hungry between meals?

If you will, how much do you weigh and how much do you want to weigh -- and how tall are you?

Are you taking any medications that could make weight loss more difficult?

Do you exercise?

Have you been on and off a number of restrictive diets?

[Nicest of the Damned]

Could the problem be that your plates are too big? Do you have trouble fitting them into dishwashers or cabinets? If that's the problem, then donate or sell the oversize plates, or if you can't bear to part with them pack them up and use them only for special occasions. Then get some normal-size (about 10.75 inches or less in diameter) plates for everyday use. Target, Wal-Mart, or an outlet store would have cheap ones, if cost is an issue.

[BrightAngel]

Are there some people out there that this plan just will not work for?
Anyone have any suggestions or questions so that I could figure out a way to be more successful?

I have discussed this matter at length in various posts inside my personal Daily Check-In Thread.
If you read through those 7 online pages,
you might find some helpful information.
Below is a copy of a post I previously made, which is a part of my personal Daily Check-In Thread.

I, personally, think that "total freedom" every weekend
is no way for most obese people to lose or maintain weight.

The NoS restrictions: "sometimes" and "don't be an Idiot" are vague.
Also, if those of us with a long history of obesity, could follow: "sometimes",
and could avoid being "Idots" around unlimited food...even for 2 days every week,
we would not have continual weight-problems.

NoS may bring some people psychological relief,
but the ultimate measure of success of any weight-loss eating plan (diet)
is whether or not it brings physical relief--i.e. weight-loss.

My own observation over a couple of years here on the forum is that
while "Vanilla NoS seems successful for rather disciplined "overweight" people,
most "obese" people, while using it,
can barely maintain their starting body-weight or drop 10% of their body-weight and maintain that loss.
I would rate this kind of maintenance or limited weight-loss for an obese person: "helpful", but not "successful".

[IslandLover]

Wosnes, some of the plates are a little more loaded than others, just depending on the day. It isnt because I am worried about getting hungry, I just really like some foods so if I like it, I do catch myself filling up a little more than usual. I am 5'6", weigh 190 and want to weigh 150. I am not on any medications other than an IUD. I was taking regular birth control for years and wondered if that might play a part in it and had the IUD insertion in February this year. It does still give out small doses of horomones. Yes I exercise for about an hour most days. As mentioned in my original post, I had just got off a diet a dietician made for me to eat 6 or 7 small meals a day. Before that, its been many different attempts and sometimes I would fall completely off the wagon and then get back on a few months later.

Nicest of the Damned, my plates seem to be the normal size, definitely no trouble putting them in the dishwasher or stacking in cabinets.

Thanks for the info BrightAngel, I will check it out.

[wosnes]

Whenever I read that someone has to nearly starve to lose weight, I wonder if there's something else going on. There's some reason that you can't drop the weight. My suggestion is going to be to follow No-S for six months to a year and see what happens. Just eat normal meals, don't go wild on the weekends and indulge on holidays and other truly special days.

I think that if you've been on and off numerous restrictive diets in the last three years, you're stressing about losing the weight. I think removing that stress and just eating real food might jump start the weight loss.

There are some "experts" who believe that if you've been seriously restricting food, your body is in starvation mode. It holds on to weight because it doesn't believe it's going to be fed. It might take time to start losing when you start eating moderately again.

So, as counterintuitive as it sounds, removing the restrictions might be the answer.

[IslandLover]

Thanks again wosnes. I do agree with not "starving" the body and the science behind it. Keep in mind though that before I started the No S Diet, I was eating 6-7 times a day, had been doing that for a good 4 or 5 months so my body should have been over the times that I ate barely anything, it has been well over a year since I have done that.

[BrightAngel]

There are some "experts" who believe that if you've been seriously restricting food,
your body is in starvation mode.
It holds on to weight because it doesn't believe it's going to be fed.

People online tend to throw around the term "starvation mode" quite a bit.
I've done a great deal of research on this issue,
and as a result I agree with the Experts who say that
"starvation mode"...as it is commonly defined...is a Myth.
Starvation mode doesn't happen in a normal person until one is actually starving.
Here is a picture of the men in the famous Keys experiment who were in "Starvation mode"...

Bottom line, if you are a relatively normal person,
AND have MORE body fat than this,
you are not in "starvation mode".
Here is one of my favorite quotes from an expert on the Metabolism issue.

"Unless you have a degree in human biology
…and in many cases even if you do…you do not understand what ‘metabolism’ means.
Eating Less Calories isn't Dangerous for your Metabolism,

This word gets thrown around the fitness and diet media
and is used to scare people into thinking there is a dangerous level of calories
that will destroy their metabolism.
This of course is a false premise considering your ‘metabolism’ isn’t a thing
that can be destroyed or sped up or slowed down (not without drugs).

“Metabolism’ is just the sum of the processes of your body on a cellular/systemic level
…that’s it…that’s all it’s ever been…nothing more.
So what…who cares.
Why do fitness marketers keep talking about it?! I’ll never know.

And there is virtually nothing you can do to change this.
Eating at or below your actual BMR isn’t going to ‘damage’ your metabolism
any more than eating above it.
And speaking of which, why don’t marketers
suggest that there could be ‘metabolic damage’ when people overeat!? …anyone…anyone?
Right, just what I thought, this lie doesn’t lead to lucrative weight loss products.

The following claims are false
and are your best way to know that a person is clueless
about biology and physiology and nutrition if they say:

• Eating too few calories is going to ’slow’ your metabolism
  (unless they’re referring to people who are starving to death…and are in fact about to die)
  
  That there are foods that can ‘damage’ your metabolism
  
  That you can speed up or slow down your metabolism
  (without drugs…and that this would be a good thing in either direction)
  
  That a slow metabolism is responsible for weight gain
  
  That a fast metabolism is responsible for weight loss
  
  That you have any control whatsoever over your metabolic rate
  
  That your meal timing or exercise timing can affect your metabolic rate
  
  …and any other garbage claim you hear from any fitness marketer
  with the word “metabolism†in it…

If you see any of the above claims,
you can be assured that the person who said them
is sorely lacking in their understanding of how the body works.

If you want to lose weight…
....EAT LESS than you are currently eating.
End of story."

[Pernetty]

I recently watched a documentary about "Facts about Weight Loss" made by the BBC which I found from a link from a reader here. Sorry, I forgot where it came from.

In the doc, one woman was convinced that her metabolism was slow. She had given up dieting and was eating very healthy food and had given up hope about losing weight.
The doc film-makers followed her as she underwent a very scientific approach to learning about her calorie burn rate.

The result: her metabolism was very average. She was in fact, eating in excess of 3000 calories a day of healthy, non-processed food. She was eating too much food. That's why she was overweight.

Isn't that what we all hope? That our metabolism is dead and that's why we're overweight. This documentary showed me that in MOST cases, we simply are eating too many calories - that's why we weigh more than we should or want to.
P

[marygrace]

I recently watched a documentary about "Facts about Weight Loss" made by the BBC which I found from a link from a reader here. Sorry, I forgot where it came from.

In the doc, one woman was convinced that her metabolism was slow. She had given up dieting and was eating very healthy food and had given up hope about losing weight.
The doc film-makers followed her as she underwent a very scientific approach to learning about her calorie burn rate.

The result: her metabolism was very average. She was in fact, eating in excess of 3000 calories a day of healthy, non-processed food. She was eating too much food. That's why she was overweight.

Isn't that what we all hope? That our metabolism is dead and that's why we're overweight. This documentary showed me that in MOST cases, we simply are eating too many calories - that's why we weigh more than we should or want to.
P

Ha, I think if I were in a situation like this, I'd rather hope that I was just eating too much. Finding out that you just eat too much means you have a really simple problem to fix (eat less), rather than try to solve a super complex medical problem or not be able to solve it at all.

Anyways, this documentary sounds really interesting and I'm definitely going to look for it. Thank you!

[Kathi]

My dieting had become very "overscienced" in the past couple years. Every time I ate, I was conscious of glycemic load and/or carb grams and/or my metabolism in middle age... It has been so freeing to just eat a banana and be done with it!

It's important to know basic facts about healthy eating, but I do think our culture takes everything to excess. Americans just aren't very good at moderation. Some theorize that our increasing obesity problem started just around the time of fat phobia in the late '80s/early '90s, when everyone started eating huge plates of pasta so long as it was without any oil.

[gratefuldeb67]

Here's a thought that hasn't been mentioned in case it helps.
Perhaps you are holding onto fluid due to not drinking enough water?
In the meantime, I would strongly suggest not panicking and continuing to stick with NoS and just let your body adjust a little more. Maybe that little bit of extra food at sittings is not what your body is used to processing anymore.. but what happens over time (usually it seems to take about 6 months) is that you won't need as much food at meals as you did in the initial stages, and it will just happen naturally.
I'd also say that hormones could possibly be interfering with the weight loss from the birth control.. that is common when people take birth control.
NoS is really a slow weight loss plan, so please be patient. It took me a whole year to lose 20 lbs, and that was with fairly little exercise, and I am 43 years old.
Good luck!

[connorcream]

Are there some people out there that this plan just will not work for? Anyone have any suggestions or questions so that I could figure out a way to be more successful?

one year anniversary

If so desired, you can check out my journey over a year using a process that summarizes my efforts with NoS and my alternative personalized approach.

I take a very different tack from other suggestions in that, do not treat this as a ho hum affair HOPING in a few more months the weight will somehow come off. You are heading into one of the most challenging times of the year eating wise (much like myself Oct 6, 2009) and the last thing you want to face in January 2011 is even more weight to lose. Treat it like the crisis it is. Get the weight off while you can. It gets more difficult not less as time moves forward. The body ages, familiy emergencies occur, events, travel, yada, yada, yada. Life is so much more fulfilling being trim and fit. Everything is better. Carrying around extra pounds is not living life to its fullest. Being fat does impact everything one does.

I walked 4 miles this weekend, with various inclines, ramps, stairs at alma mater with DS enrolled at same place. I am heading to the stables this afternoon to canter on the rail. My sleep is excellent, clothes are cute, DH thinks I am the prettiest wife. Sitting in the stadium watching football games is no problem. I am not the one hanging over my seat allottment. I don't complain about how they squeezed too many seats in. I fit nicely in my space. Neighbors commented last night while trick or treating how good I looked. I had no idea how much of my life I was missing being 60# over weight, 5# short of being obese for my height, age, gender.

I look forward to hearing of your success.

[sophiasapientia]

Unless you have a medical condition that prohibits weight loss, it sounds like you just aren't creating enough of a calorie deficit to lose weight with your current habits. Are you exercising at all? How big are your portions? Are your S days out of control? I'd start by looking at one area that you think could be the biggest factor in not losing weight and tweak that a bit and see if it makes a difference. So ... if your portions are large, try using a smaller plate at home. If you aren't exercising, commit to adding movement to your day.

Unfortunately, some of us have to tweak the system a bit to make it work for us by eating a little less and/or exercising a little more. I've found that I need to do both to make No S work for me, especially since I have unrestricted S Days. FWIW, I've lost 27 pounds in the past 10 months and haven't counted a single calorie so, while you may have to tweak, it doesn't mean that you have to count calories, POINTS or carbs or whatever, to lose weight unless you want to do those things.

ETA: I just reread your post and saw that you are already exercising and that the problem is on the food side. In that case, you may want to consider eating smaller portions or look at the quality of food that you are eating. My own trick is to use dietary defaults. I eat a light breakfast by choice -- I'm not a huge breakfast person -- and keep my lunch light and healthy as well. During the colder months, my typical N Day lunch is a huge bowl of homemade veggie-based soup, often with a slice of good bread or some cheese and/or fruit. Then I eat a plate of whatever I make my family for dinner and don't worry about calories. This, combined with daily walking, is enough to create a calorie deficit for me on No S even with 2 S Days a week. The key is to figure out how to create a deficit that works for you given what you like to eat, your schedule, etc.

[clarinetgal]

You could try dropping down to a smaller plate size. If you eat on a 10 inch plate, use a 9 or an 8 inch plate. As long as you don't overload those plates, you should definitely be able to reduce your calorie intake.

[wosnes]

ETA: I just reread your post and saw that you are already exercising and that the problem is on the food side. In that case, you may want to consider eating smaller portions or look at the quality of food that you are eating. My own trick is to use dietary defaults. I eat a light breakfast by choice -- I'm not a huge breakfast person -- and keep my lunch light and healthy as well. During the colder months, my typical N Day lunch is a huge bowl of homemade veggie-based soup, often with a slice of good bread or some cheese and/or fruit. Then I eat a plate of whatever I make my family for dinner and don't worry about calories. This, combined with daily walking, is enough to create a calorie deficit for me on No S even with 2 S Days a week. The key is to figure out how to create a deficit that works for you given what you like to eat, your schedule, etc.

I agree with sophiasapientia about the quality of food. I've found that avoiding processed, ready-to-eat, artificial, anything-reduced foods has increased weight loss.

I eat a lot like she does. Breakfast, if I eat it, is light. Lunch is nearly always soup, bread, sometimes salad or raw vegetables, and fruit. Dinner is whatever I decide to eat. I aim for the dinner plate to be half vegetables, but whatever else is served is determined by what I want to eat. It might be "healthy" or it might be chicken and dumplings, lasagna, or a fried pork chop. Last night was a salad, sauerkraut, mashed potatoes and sausage.

Other tips that might help (from the Today Show):

Eat fat.
Get more sleep.
Add cheese to your diet.
Drink alcohol. Don't start drinking, but if you do drink, enjoy a glass of alcohol daily.
Have sex.

Another tip that I discovered by accident and was suggested to a friend by a dietitian is to consume more calories -- about 200 more daily. In her case it was another meal daily; in my case it was just a little more of more calorie dense foods.

[DaveMc]

I think we need to be pretty cautious about urging anyone to get really "hard core" about their approach to eating, unless that desire comes from them. A lot of people are here looking for a sensible, moderate, long-term approach that won't lead them to drop NoS for the next fad, and the moderate nature of NoS's approach is what makes it possible for people to stick with it for the long haul.

As people have said, weight loss with NoS is generally fairly slow. A lot of us have found that we can largely ignore this, by focusing on the fact that we will (we hope!) be doing this for *decades* -- so what if it takes two or three years to lose the weight we want?

Having said that, there are a lot of small, sensible, moderate changes you can make to the basic plan. If you think you can do that sort of thing without scaring yourself away, then there's no reason why not. One suggestion: you've now got two months of experience with how much you eat on NoS. It sounds absurdly simple, but why not try just eating slightly less than that? I mean, you know by now how much you tend to put on a plate. Put a tetch less than that on there, and see how it goes ... You also know, by now, that you're not going to starve before the next meal, so you might not need to make any official new rules, you might be able to trust yourself to just reduce your portions a little bit.

That knowledge of how much food it takes to carry me to the next meal is one of the most powerful things about NoS, for me, a year and a bit in (and 20-ish pounds down, though I don't weigh regularly).

[marygrace]

Wosnes, I've heard all the tips from the Today show before except the one saying to eat more cheese. What's the reasoning behind that?

[wosnes]

Wosnes, I've heard all the tips from the Today show before except the one saying to eat more cheese. What's the reasoning behind that?

It's a good source of calcium and higher calcium intake is associated with weight loss. Also, it brings a lot of satiety. It is a case, however, of a little goes a long way - about an ounce is all you need.

[BrightAngel]

One suggestion:
you've now got two months of experience with how much you eat on NoS.
It sounds absurdly simple,
but why not try just eating slightly less than that?

I mean, you know by now how much you tend to put on a plate.
Put a tetch less than that on there, and see how it goes.
You might not need to make any official new rules,
You might be able to trust yourself to just reduce your portions a little bit.

Excellent suggestion for two months in.
EATING LESS than one burns will always = successful weight-loss.

[BrightAngel]

Another tip that I discovered by accident
and was suggested to a friend by a dietitian
is to consume more calories -- about 200 more daily.
In her case it was another meal daily;
in my case it was just a little more of more calorie dense foods.

When it comes to Weight-loss issues,
people...including "Nutritional Experts"....
have difficulty distinguishing between ASSOCIATION and CAUSATION.

Increasing calories to lose weight is a commonly repeated Myth.
but even though this is sometimes Associated with weight-loss,
Increasing calories never Causes fat loss.

Dieting people frequently hold onto water,
and fat loss doesn't always show up immediately.
Sometimes during a long period of reducing calories,
one loses fat from fat cells, but those cells repace the lost fat with water.,
This results in an outward show of zero change in both weight and size.

When this occurs, sometimes a slight increase in calories
will shift the body's "balance" and cause the fat cells to release that water.
Since this makes prior weight-loss visible,
people mistakenly believe that eating higher-calories CAUSED lost fat loss,
when in fact this was merely an ASSOCIATION.

[wosnes]

Whatever the reason, we've both consistently lost weight since July while eating a little more.

[levictoria]

Hey there, just thought I'd add my two cents.

Our stats right now are very similar. I'm 5'7'' and 26. Anyway, I've been doing the program for about a month, and have gained weight.

In the very beginning, I actually gained about 5 pounds. Not fun. I was freaking out. That said, I've really had to re-evaluate things for myself. Just recently, I've begun only eating meals the size of what can fit in my two cupped hands, or is the same size as my two fists. Additionally, I was going pretty gungho with the milk/juice rule, and have naturally cut back on those.

Anyway, tomorrow is my weigh in day. I think the idea with this method is it's all about reprogramming your mind first, and then your body. Give it some time still.

[IslandLover]

Thank you for your suggestion gratefuldeb67. I have wondered also about my water intake. That is pretty much all I drink every day is water but I get busy and probably forget to drink as much as I should. One reason that led me to believe water could be a big part of my problem, I have taken phentermine (prescription diet pill) a couple of times over the past years. I would have to say that it really did help me as far as getting me on the right track with exercising and watching what I eat. Last year, I worked out consistently, ate right, and was determined to do it "on my own". Months later, I had an emotional break down, I hadnt gotten anywhere, so decided to try the phentermine again and do exactly what I had been doing. I lost 10 pounds that month. The ONLY difference I could come up with on my part was that I got really dry mouth from the medicine so it caused me to constantly drink. Maybe I should make a conscious effort to try to drink as much water as I did while on the Phen and see what happens?

That is awesome Connnocream, congrats on your achievements. I am not really worried about the holidays coming up as much as the winter season. I am pretty sure I suffer from SAD (seasonal affective disorder), I find myself wanting to sort of hibernate in the winter because the cold weather makes me miserable, and thats normally when I put on the weight. This is the first year I didnt drop the 20 pounds that I normally battle with each year, this is also the first year I didnt get involved with the phentermine. I know the stuff is bad for you, I take it maybe for one month out the year, just to give me a boast and hope it doesnt come back but always seems to in the winter time.

Sophia, I have been trying to tweak systems for the past couple of years. I think I have done really well with the No S diet the past 2 months, not really had any days that just went out of control on the eating, even on the S days, and I have been exercising at least 4 days a week. I am going to keep on tweaking but was getting at the point that I needed some support and looking to see if anyone else was having the same problem as me. Sophia and Wosnes, I am going to try the suggestion of limiting myself more for breakfast and lunch and then just enjoy my dinner and see where that takes me. Something has got to give eventually!!!! I am a pretty determine person, weight loss is the only thing I have not been able to achieve so far in life.

Thanks for your support as well DaveMc. I am a pretty dedicated person when I want something, I have no problem working out hard on a daily basis, I have no problem staying on a diet, as long as its within what I am willing to do. I am a picky eater and if I have alot of limitations on what I can eat, I will begin to undereat to avoid the foods I dont like, or just stop the diet very quickly. And when I fill up my plate, its not at all that I am worried about being "hungry" I fill the plate when its something I really like to eat. I eat so much less when its something I dont particularly care for. maybe I should stop cooking my fav foods

Thanks for all the posts BrightAngel. I have been reading your daily check in

[oolala53]

These suggestions are all based on assuming you don't already do these things. Sorry if you do! I know how frustrating it can be to hear of solutions that aren't solutions.

I know it seems as if this has been wrapped up but I wanted to say to examine your proportion of dense and water-rich foods. About half and half volume for two meals a day works for me. At breakfast, I tend to eat high fiber cereal, so I think that helps make up for not having veggies, so the proportion is a little higher of dense food at that meal. I do have a fat at every meal, but the volume is about that of my two thumbs, give or take a half of one thumb. These meals allow for delicious foods and satisfying portions for me.

Watch sodium and see if you can wean yourself off as much as you're used to.

Eat lean proteins at your meals and fewer starchy carbs, but have enough to enjoy several good bites. Eat slowly; savor, savor, savor. (I just read today that naturally slim people start to feel they are getting full after 10 minutes of eating. Heavy people only start feeling they are getting satisfied after 25 minutes.) Give yourself plenty of light vegetables to chew on. Chew your food so that it is liquid before you swallow it. It digests better and it takes longer to eat. And swish all caloric beverages around in your mouth a bit before swallowing.

Experiment with eating only enough so that you are hungry for 1-2 hours before your next meal.

Don't drink anything between meals except plain water unless you are legitimatly HUNGRY, i.e., stomach growling and empty, not just a vague urge to eat; then try 1/2 cup of juice or milk to see if that's enough.

I hate to report this, but I have a friend at work who wears a BodyBug and religiously records her food. She has had several weeks in which she registered a calorie deficit large enough to have lost a pound but lost no weight. It does not seem to be made up for in subsequent weeks.

By the way, I am 5' 6" and started at 185 lbs. I did not ever aim at eating a certain number of calories, but from experience with dieting, I know I eat between 1400 and 1700 calories on most N days. (It's funny: when a diet told me to eat only 1400 calories, I felt I was getting cheated. But I have days when that's plenty of food for me.) My S days have been pretty wild for most of the last 9 months, with some exceptions in the last few months, though I can feel pretty rotten on 2200 calories of junk. I exercise only sporadically. I've lost 17 lbs. this year so far using the principles I wrote about above. My first goal is just to get to 154, a BMI of 24.9. These last 15 lbs. are a bear, but I'm determined to do it with tweaking No S and adding consistant exercise.

I hope you find the right mix for you soon and get some satisfaction for your efforts.

[IslandLover]

Thank you for your examples oolala53. All of it makes sense, however, it seems to be going against the main principals of the No S Diet, or am I wrong? My assumption is you could eat what you wanted, just no snacks, seconds, or sweets. Worrying about types of food at meals will frustrate me enough that I completely give up on this. I also find myself into food routines, eating the same thing for breakfast every morning, rotating lunch a little bit, but never a huge variety.

I did definitely slow down and savor every bite of my dinner tonight, it was very pleasant. I catch myself doing other things while I eat, watching tv, playing on the internet, texting, etc., and I know I am not enjoying my food as much when I do that.

[Pernetty]

Ooh, eat ALL you want is not really the goal here. I'm sure others will chime in, but the goal of No-S is to eat MODERATE amounts, three times a day. If the amount looks like a lot - it probably is a lot.

No piling it high in this club - before you try anything else, perhaps re-examine the basics.

Best of luck!

[wosnes]

Thank you for your examples oolala53. All of it makes sense, however, it seems to be going against the main principals of the No S Diet, or am I wrong? My assumption is you could eat what you wanted, just no snacks, seconds, or sweets. Worrying about types of food at meals will frustrate me enough that I completely give up on this. I also find myself into food routines, eating the same thing for breakfast every morning, rotating lunch a little bit, but never a huge variety.

I did definitely slow down and savor every bite of my dinner tonight, it was very pleasant. I catch myself doing other things while I eat, watching tv, playing on the internet, texting, etc., and I know I am not enjoying my food as much when I do that.

IslandLover -- what kind of food do you eat?

[DaveMc]

My assumption is you could eat what you wanted, just no snacks, seconds, or sweets. Worrying about types of food at meals will frustrate me enough that I completely give up on this.

Well, here's a deep secret about NoS that we were hoping not to need to break to you until later: NoS isn't magical. It represents, in some ways, a very savvy psychological trick to help get people over the hardest part, namely *starting*. It's such a simple set of rules, people tend to think, "Well, I can do *that*!" And soon they're eating regular, moderate meals, with no snacking and limited sweets, and it's a huge improvement over how they were eating, before.

But the thing is, none of this suspends the normal operation of chemistry or physics. You can fit an *unbelievable* number of calories onto a single plate. Think about several Big Macs and a pile of fries: that would fit onto my plate, for well over 2000 calories a plate. If you ate that three times a day, you'd certainly gain weight (unless you are secretly Michael Phelps), despite sticking to the letter of the NoS rules.

A lot of us have found that once we started moderating the quantity of what we ate, and that became automatic, it got much easier to think about the quality of what we were eating. Some people are lucky enough not to have to think about it at all: they find that just eating three meals a day is enough, without having to specifically think about what they're eating.

You may not be one of those lucky people. To put a more positive spin on your experience so far, let me point out the following: you now know what maintenance looks/feels like. You can eat like you've been eating for the past two months, and not gain weight. That's already an accomplishment, given that most people with weight problems are probably *gaining* weight over time. So now you now what kind of eating will let you maintain your weight; that's good information to have! But if you find that your current pattern of eating doesn't lead to weight loss, you'll have to take steps. (You could also give it a few more months and see how it goes; sometimes people report weight loss that starts after quite a long delay.)

If you do want to take steps, your choices are to be a bit more restrictive about how much you eat, or a bit more conscious about what you eat. I don't think either of these requires "worrying" to the point of frustration.

(Your comment about worrying about what to eat at each meal being a deal-breaker is also important information: you've identified for yourself, there, one of your key issues with eating. You said earlier that you're very dedicated about other things, like exercise, so maybe it's worth pondering why food is in a different category than some of the other things in your life that you attack with such dedication? Personally, I can certainly identify with the idea that it can be tiring and irritating to have to make an extra effort to prepare certain types of food, and that was a strong appeal of NoS for me: for my first year or so, I paid no specific attention at all to the contents of my plates, and when I wanted to speed up weight loss when it seemed to be stalled, I did it entirely by focusing on the amount, not the nature, of my food. That approach requires less up-front effort, since you don't have to cook or plan anything differently, you just need to spoon out a bit less onto your plate. Now that I'm well underway, I'm finding it easier to do things like consciously adding more fruit and vegetables to my meals; the basics are under control, so I can spare some attention to improve the quality of what I eat.)

[kccc]

My assumption is you could eat what you wanted, just no snacks, seconds, or sweets. Worrying about types of food at meals will frustrate me enough that I completely give up on this.

Please read what Dave said carefully. Then, if you would, go up to the sticky and read "phases of No-S" (I wrote that, and would re-cap a lot of it here.)

Some points...
1) No-S is moderate, but slow. You said in your post that you expect to lose 3-5 lbs/month. You might, you might not... don't let expectations derail you.
2) If you were gaining before and are now maintaining, then you've made significant progress already. It may not be enough for you, but it IS progress.

If you do need to make changes in order to lose, the best strategy I've found is to make TINY changes that DON'T make you give up in frustration. And once those are solid, you can consider another tiny change. Over time, those tiny changes will add up, but each one will be relatively painless.

So, just look at what you're doing, and see what "jumps out" at you as an obvious thing that you might change. Maybe it's drinking sweet drinks too much. Maybe it's using platters instead of a standard plate. Maybe it's a "gateway food." Maybe it's fudging the rules a bit, and snacking while prepping or putting away food (it's amazing how much you can eat that way!). Whatever it is, it should be at the "oh, duh!" and "oh, I can do THAT" level.

Everyone's choices will be different, because we are all different. No-S makes us take a thoughtful look at our situation and make the best choices for ourselves.

[Nicest of the Damned]

If you do need to make changes in order to lose, the best strategy I've found is to make TINY changes that DON'T make you give up in frustration. And once those are solid, you can consider another tiny change.

Don't try to make too many small changes at once, either. You have a limited supply of willpower, if you spread it too thin, you'll accomplish nothing and feel bad.

Give yourself time. Changes that seem unthinkable now might seem in reach in a few months. You build willpower on this diet, just like weight lifters build muscles. When I started No S, the Half Plate Mod (half the plate taken up by vegetables) seemed like something I could never do in a million years. I'm now doing it, at least when there are separate protein, vegetable, and starch courses making up a meal. You're at least not gaining weight over time right now. You can afford to take it slow. Sustainable weight loss is slow.

Don't overconstrain your diet. If you're picky about which aspects of dieting you are willing to do, you may not be able to also choose what rate of weight loss you want. You may have to pick one of "losing 3-5 pounds per month" and "not worrying about what goes on your plate". An overconstrained diet may just not work, or may be impossible to follow. I know. I'm a picky eater who keeps kosher, so my food selections at restaurants are quite limited to start with, and I tried Eat This, Not That. It didn't work. That's not a diet intended for people who only have a limited number of things they're willing to eat at any given restaurant. (My interpretation of keeping kosher does allow me to eat at non-kosher restaurants, but not to order anything containing meat, poultry, or non-kosher fish at non-kosher restaurants).

How picky an eater are you? There are picky eaters where it's easier to list what they don't eat, and ones where it's easier to list what they do eat. Which one are you? If you're the former, it probably won't be too hard to work around it to create a healthy diet. If you're the latter, it may be more difficult, depending on what you eat. If you only eat fast food, or only eat white food, that's going to be a problem. You may want to work on that. Or you may need some additional food rules modifying No S. One example might be, if you're ordering something that comes in more than one size, never order the largest one, even if it would fit on your plate. You'll need to add these rules gradually, though. If you try to add them all at once, you probably won't be able to keep any of them.

[Sienna]

I agree with pretty much everything in the last 3 posts.

One tiny change that I made (without even knowing I was making it), was to treat a few no-sweet foods as unofficial S foods. It wasn't ever a conscious decision, I just sort of started trying to save some of my worst offenders foods for the weekends. For example french fries. I just tried to avoid french fries, but figured I could have them on S days. This meant instead of ordering fries, I started subbing in baked potatoes (which are filling enough that I would usually end up leaving either the potato or a majority of my entree for the doggy bag) or vegetables (which I don't tend to get enough of). It was a tiny change. And I can still have fries, just not all the time.

For me, I don't worry too much about going overly crazy on weekends - because I usually don't want to anymore. As in my body can't handle a 1/2 lb burger and a pile of greasy fries followed by an entire cartoon of ice cream just for dinner anymore. So being just a *little* more restrictive on N days is a huge help.

[IslandLover]

Pernetty, I wasnt saying I am eating ALL I want, just eating WHAT I want. I do try to be conscious on how much is going on the plate.

Wosnes, my biggest problem is I hate most vegetables. I can eat tons of fruits but will rather not eat at all than have to eat vegetables. When I started the diet, I had oatmeal for breakfast for a while, then started eating cereal, this week I have just been drinking a carnation breakfast drink. For lunch, I may have one slice of pizza, a grilled chicken wrap and small fry from mcdonalds, PB&J sandwich, can of spaghettios, etc. For dinner, I cook in most nights, still eating alot of chicken cooked many different ways, do try to throw in a can of corn or green beans (those are the ONLY veggies I will eat). I cook alot of mexican and italian foods.

DaveMc, I do totally get what you are saying about piling the Big Mac and fries on a plate and do try to behave better than that. I agree that I am probably not one of those lucky people I have been looking at the positive side of this as well, its the first time in a long time that I have been able to eat what I want and actual maintain my weight and I do think its terrific. However, I am wanting to take that a step further and begin to lose as well. Even a couple pounds a month would be great, but like I said, its been two months and no changes what so ever. Overall I do think you have great advice and have definitely given me the support I was looking for here. Would you mind sharing with me a little bit more about yourself, how long you have been on No S, how much have you lost, are you at your goal weight, etc?

KCCC, I was under the impression that 1-2 weeks per week is a good amount to lose to do it right and keep it off, so I felt 3-5 pounds per month would be a good goal for me. I am okay with the fact that I havent lost anything yet, as long as I can find a way to eventually make it happen. This has been the only "diet" that I have ever really been satisfied with and I do want to find a way to make it work. I appreciate everything you said as well, it does make sense and am going to try the "baby steps" theory to this.

Nicest of the Damned, I am in the counseling field so definitely understand the psychology behind forming new habits rather than temporary change. I know I didnt put this weight on overnight and didnt create this habits overnight either, it will take time to form new habits. One book I have read that I really enjoyed is The Beck Diet Solution Plan. You read a page or two a day, it gives you a new skill to work on and it continues to build over a couple month period. it also helped me alot, teaching me how to appreciate about what goes into my body more. Its nice to find someone else out there that is a picky eater such as myself. Its not a matter of preference to me, some foods I refused to eat and will find myself picking out each little piece of it if its mixed in with something I did order. As far as my pickiness, its mainly that I don't like vegetables. I wont eat anything that comes out of a microwave. I love meats, fruits, pastas, etc. I could live on pizza and chicken. alot of times I will order a pizza with extra sauce, very light cheese, grilled chicken and mushrooms, I think its great. A couple of years ago, I was guilty of ordering the bigger size of everything, it was a much better deal after all. However, through the 3 years I have been struggling with my weight and actually putting out effort, I have successfully conditioned myself to understand that I should at least order the small size of something, its all I need. Here lately when I have been ordering food out, I have intentionally been ordering things that I know I can make 2 meals out of. It saves on the pocket book and calories, I love it!

Sienna, I was quite surprised at how many times I have ended up not changing my diet on an S day, not getting 2nds, not having anything sweet the entire day, etc. I have been eating french fries 1-2 times per week maybe, but that is certainly something I could live without also if it would actually make a difference in the long run. After all, I didnt eat french fries on any of my other diets so have pretty much went without them for the past couple of years.

[Sienna]

Wosnes, my biggest problem is I hate most vegetables.

I just wanted to let you know that I also hate most vegetables. With a passion. I even have an inexplicable gag reflex to carrots and some types of lettuce that takes a lot of effort to suppress if I'm at a formal dinner or something where I feel like I *have* to eat it.

And I've lost some weight at NoS. Without intentionally adding any vegetables. So the good news is that being anti-vegi shouldn't make it impossible to lose weight

One little thing I adopted about a year ago that goes well with NoS is the "don't eat it if I don't like it" clause. Honestly, salad may be healthy, but it's still got calories (many dressings even have a lot of calories), and I'm not going to waste my calories (even a few) on something I hate. Especially since, in part because I don't like them, I don't find vegetables or salads very satisfying. So I'm more likely to use them as replacements rather than additions.

I get one plate a day, and on it I put only things I enjoy eating. I'd rather have 3 small plates of tasty (to me) food than 3 (or more) large plates of disgusting (to me) food.

I've also started doing a lot of soup for lunch. It's easy, fast, relatively inexpensive, and pretty healthy. Plus it gives me a little vegetable in my diet (the cooked veggies in dishes like soup or pasta or casseroles don't bother me as much). Also, it's cold outside right now and soup is warm. It's a nice blend of routine and variety for me.

As to fries, they may not be an issue for you, but I think for me they made a dent. A small fry at a place like Wendy's is over 300 calories, a large is over 500. A side of fries at Fridays is estimated at like 800 calories. For me personally, that was a lot of calories for only a little enjoyment . Especially since now I don't really miss them (and I say this as someone who will NOT give up burgers, even though they can also have a lot of calories - because to me the burger calories are worth it because of the enjoyment I get).

Also, a lot of my fry consumption was done at sit down restaurants where they came with the meal. I'd eat the fries first because I knew they wouldn't reheat well, but they wouldn't fill me up so I'd still eat a good percent of my entree. But I wasn't eating there for the fries, I was eating there for the entree - so in hindsight, that didn't make sense. So it was a painless, but very helpful cut for me. I figure I may have eaten fries up to 1-3 times a week so at an average of 500 calories/french fry indulgence that was an easy 500 to 1500 calories/week (or 0.14 - 0.43 pounds/week) to cut. For some people it's sweets, or sugary coffee drinks, (which NoS addresses), but for you it may be something else.

One really helpful aspect for me of this diet is all of the self reflection I've done. I've conquered the willpower issue and spent a fair amount of time reflecting on my choices, how I got to where I was when I started NoS (both in terms of the pounds and the mindset), and how I've changed my mindset AND my diet in a way that makes me feel like this is sustainable. And as part of that, I've been really honest with myself about what foods are problematic (fries being one of them) and have found ways to address them. The way I did it was pretty organic though, such that I don't know that I would even term them mods so much as just things I just don't really do anymore.

As you move forward with NoS, you may discover your own personal trouble spots, and can address them on a personal level.

A final thought. I'm not a calorie logger (been there, done that, failed miserably and I love that NoS doesn't make me do that). But I did track (approximating when necessary) my calories when I first started NoS as a way to make sure I wasn't making my meals too large (I didn't trust myself at first - now I do). That's part of how I identified the fry issue. While I know you are hesitant to make lots of restrictions, being aware of how many calories you consume versus burn at least while you are starting might be worthwhile.

Oh, another final thought from a fellow pizza lover. I recently switched to thin crust pizza - and I love it. It saves on the calories, and I actually like it more than the thick crust I used to eat. I get to taste more of the sauce and toppings. Plus if you are making it yourself, you can get twice as much from the same batch of dough (since the dough freezes well this is very convenient).

[Nicest of the Damned]

Its nice to find someone else out there that is a picky eater such as myself. Its not a matter of preference to me, some foods I refused to eat and will find myself picking out each little piece of it if its mixed in with something I did order. As far as my pickiness, its mainly that I don't like vegetables. I wont eat anything that comes out of a microwave. I love meats, fruits, pastas, etc. I could live on pizza and chicken. alot of times I will order a pizza with extra sauce, very light cheese, grilled chicken and mushrooms, I think its great

There are a lot of us out there. Some people feel like it's OK to be judgmental toward picky eaters, but fortunately no one has done that here. People don't always act as mature on another message board I frequent.

I dislike most raw vegetables and fruits. The only raw fruits or vegetables I like are certain kinds of salad greens (not iceberg lettuce). I pick through salads, and with most salads, I end up leaving some things on the plate when I'm done. Obviously, a diet that relies heavily on salads or raw fruit is a non-starter for me. A raw-food diet is totally out of the question- the only raw foods I like are sashimi and a few salad greens. I suspect I'd get some horrible deficiency disease, or maybe mercury poisoning, if that's all I ate for any length of time.

If you don't eat vegetables with your meals, you might want to consider using smaller than usual plates, since you don't have non-calorie-dense vegetables to take up some of that plate space. Or you might consider making fruit a part of your meals, instead.

How often do you eat out? What kind of restaurants do you eat at? One possible mod I'm considering for the future is a limit on the number of times per week that I eat out. From Eat This, Not That, I've learned that some restaurant dishes have truly horrifying levels of calories and sodium. Even dividing the meal in two might not always save you. Sit-down chain restaurants seem, from Eat This Not That, to be particularly prone to have dishes that are very high in calories and sodium, worse even than fast food restaurants.

When you get pizza, is it thick crust or thin? It makes a difference in calories. I have actually added a separate rule for myself for pizza. One slice for breakfast (I love pizza for breakfast) or lunch, two slices for dinner, even if I could fit more on the plate. "Personal pizzas" tend to be high in calories (I suspect this is because they have more outside crust than a couple of slices of a larger pizza) and are probably best avoided, or eaten on S days only. Pizza is a food I find it's easy for me to overeat.

[kccc]

KCCC, I was under the impression that 1-2 weeks per week is a good amount to lose to do it right and keep it off, so I felt 3-5 pounds per month would be a good goal for me. I am okay with the fact that I havent lost anything yet, as long as I can find a way to eventually make it happen. This has been the only "diet" that I have ever really been satisfied with and I do want to find a way to make it work. I appreciate everything you said as well, it does make sense and am going to try the "baby steps" theory to this.

1-2 lbs/week is a "standard" measurement. But that usually is in conjunction with more restrictive diets and as a way to prevent people from having HUGELY unrealistic goals. And some people hit that on No-S, and some don't. In my opinion, there needs to be a balance between being goal-focused and process-focused. And the minute people get locked into "I have to lose this much by this time," the process can get very unsustainable. Which may be okay if you MEAN to crash diet, but if you're trying to build long-term habits, then perhaps the rate of loss will need to be more flexible.

The point I was trying to make is that if you're MAINTAINING (and weren't before), you've already made some important progress! And it may be that you can just continue to eat your three meals and you'll gradually and naturally make the slight adjustments that take you into "loss" category. As Reinhard says, "eat moderately, move moderately, and see what happens."

My core advice is if you do want to make more conscious adjustments, keep them at the "non-frustrating" level. And what that looks like for you will be different than anyone else. (Though certainly you can pick up ideas from what others have done that might work for you - I love Sienna's "don't eat it it if you don't like it" clause!)

[oolala53]

Man, these are some of the longest posts I've ever read--or not read, so again I might be repeating. I just wanted to say on the topic of "I should be able to eat whatever I want," that Reinhard says in one part of the book that the fact that we know we have only three shots each day to get in what we know we need should, after a period of time of going for the gusto of most likely previously forbidden foods, will likely affect what we choose to eat. I don't know what the issue is, but sumpin's gotta give at some point. Only you can know if it's worth more experimentation or if you want to go the traditional route of targeted caloric restriction. What we do know is that even though a great number of people in the registry of those who have lost weight and kept it off did use specific "diets," a great many people who attempt diets never make it to their goal and even fewer to long-term maintenance. But some do. I hope this works for you, but I also hope something does. You deserve to have peace regarding this issue!

[DaveMc]

DaveMc, I do totally get what you are saying about piling the Big Mac and fries on a plate and do try to behave better than that. I agree that I am probably not one of those lucky people I have been looking at the positive side of this as well, its the first time in a long time that I have been able to eat what I want and actual maintain my weight and I do think its terrific. However, I am wanting to take that a step further and begin to lose as well. Even a couple pounds a month would be great, but like I said, its been two months and no changes what so ever. Overall I do think you have great advice and have definitely given me the support I was looking for here. Would you mind sharing with me a little bit more about yourself, how long you have been on No S, how much have you lost, are you at your goal weight, etc?

I'm sure you do behave better than that! I just wanted to point out, by an absurdly extreme example, that it can't possibly be the case that what you put on your plate doesn't matter at all. If you don't like vegetables, your plates are likely rather more calorie-rich than most, so you may have to be a bit more conscious of portion sizes if you want to lose weight.

(I keep mentioning calories, but I should point out that I don't explicitly count them, personally. But I do acknowledge that they exist, and that they need to be limited somehow, whether you count them or just try to eat a bit less "by eye". I find that NoS is a good mechanism for learning to eat fewer calories without needing to explicitly track them.)

As for my background, here's my one-year "testimonial":

http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=6595

Short version, I started NoS around July of 2009, and lost 20 pounds in the first year. Which is less than *half* a pound a week, but that's fine with me, I'm in no rush, and it's got me back to where I used to be for many years. I don't really have a "goal weight", I'm using the Reinhard definition for that: "Eat moderately, move moderately, and see what you end up weighing."

[wosnes]

Wosnes, my biggest problem is I hate most vegetables. I can eat tons of fruits but will rather not eat at all than have to eat vegetables. When I started the diet, I had oatmeal for breakfast for a while, then started eating cereal, this week I have just been drinking a carnation breakfast drink. For lunch, I may have one slice of pizza, a grilled chicken wrap and small fry from mcdonalds, PB&J sandwich, can of spaghettios, etc. For dinner, I cook in most nights, still eating alot of chicken cooked many different ways, do try to throw in a can of corn or green beans (those are the ONLY veggies I will eat). I cook alot of mexican and italian foods.

Its not a matter of preference to me, some foods I refused to eat and will find myself picking out each little piece of it if its mixed in with something I did order. As far as my pickiness, its mainly that I don't like vegetables. I wont eat anything that comes out of a microwave. I love meats, fruits, pastas, etc. I could live on pizza and chicken. alot of times I will order a pizza with extra sauce, very light cheese, grilled chicken and mushrooms, I think its great.

Well, four things went through my mind when I read that:

1. I once read a book that said you gained weight eating the foods you like, to lose weight you have to eat the foods you don't like. Yea, right.

2. This article.

3. There are several cultures whose diet is mostly meat-based and they are healthy and slim. I don't know exactly what they eat.

4. I think my dislike of whole grains is easier to deal with.

Congratulations on not eating anything that comes out of a microwave. I'm not sure what your reasons are, but most food cooked in a microwave isn't worth eating in my estimation. The packaged food is disgusting and food cooked in a microwave just doesn't compare to traditional methods of cooking for real food. Again, my estimation. I don't own a microwave.

I can see why you said that you pretty much have to starve yourself in order to lose weight. Much of the food you like is more calorie dense. A plate full of the food you like is going to be higher in calories than a plate full of the food I like.

How do you feel about beans? How do you feel about soup? I have a recipe for a crockpot chicken dish that I think uses ingredients you like: chicken, corn, black beans, salsa. It's served on rice or in a tortilla. I discovered that shredding the leftover chicken and adding chicken broth, it makes a great version of tortilla soup. The soup is less calorie dense but yet filling.

I used to have a book called Good Food Tastes Good. The premise was that if you make food taste good you're likely to eat more of it. An example that always comes to mind is the southern habit of cooking greens with pork. The pork makes the greens taste better and you end up eating more of the greens than you would if they weren't cooked with the pork.

Can you envision vegetables being prepared or seasoned in any way that you might like them even a little more? For instance, I like salad greens, but a lot of the other "good for me" greens don't appeal because they taste too bitter to me. They will never be a side dish. But I don't mind them at all in soup. In fact, I very much like them in soup. I also like roasted vegetables. Brussels sprouts aren't one of my favorites, but I like them when they're roasted. By the way, roasted green beans are addictive. Also, Ina Garten (and I think Martha Stewart, too) has a recipe for roasted vegetable soup. The vegetables are roasted then pureed with chicken stock.

I'm totally against pureeing vegetables and adding them to dishes where they don't belong -- brownies for instance or even macaroni and cheese. However, I'm not against pureed vegetables in dishes where they do belong -- soups or stews or other one-dish meals. So, for instance, the soup recipe I posted yesterday uses carrots and celery and I added onion. In the past I've been known to saute these vegetables, then puree them and add them to the soup. I'll eat things in soup that I'm not fond of in other preparations.

I've read that many vegetables taste bitter to some people -- it's a genetic thing, like cilantro tasting like soap to some. But it was found that if the vegetables were seasoned with lemon (or other citrus) juice, vinegar or salt, it made the vegetables more palatable.

I apologize for going on about vegetables, but if you could find a way to consume more, it would make weight loss a little easier.

[Nicest of the Damned]

1. I once read a book that said you gained weight eating the foods you like, to lose weight you have to eat the foods you don't like. Yea, right.

Even if that were true, how many people do you think could stick to that diet, and for how long? My guess is, not many, and not for very long. A diet you can't stick to does you absolutely no good. Worse than that, a diet you can't stick to can make you think "I can't diet". That thought kept me from trying to lose weight for probably about eight years. I knew I should lose weight, but I didn't think I could do it.

[IslandLover]

Sienna, I am so relieved to hear you feel the same way I do about veggies. Most people just dont understand me. I also totally agree with being happier with 3 small plates of good food than 3 large plates of gross food. I cant say enough how much I love the No S Concept The only place I ever really eat fries is McDonalds (probably one of the worst but SOO good) and I always get a small size. As far as sit down restaurants, we do try to limit ourselves to eating out once time per week so that really helps also. Oh and on the pizza, I have always been a thin crust lover

Nicest of the Damned, again its very encouraging to know another person that despises the veggies. I am a fruit lover though so can hopefully make up for part of the deficit there. I do miss eating fruit actually, I was eating it about 3 times a day when I was eating 6 times a day. When I first started No S, I was putting some fruit on my plate for meals, just because I still had it in the house and was so used to eating it. I am going to buy some more now, thanks for suggesting it! I probably get something at a fast food place 2 times a week, its normally a chicken wrap or a kids meal of some time. I have grown to love kids meals, for the price and small portions. My husband and I try to limit ourselves to eating out one time per week at a restaurant. As mentioned above, it is almost always thin crust that I eat, thats always been a preference, having nothing to do with the diet.

DaveMc, thanks for the update on your stats. And congrats on your achievements. Its giving me hope that I really will figure this out somehow. I truly appreciate all of the support and suggestions all of you have been giving me on here You are all I really have to talk to about this, I dont have a good support system here.

KCCC, very good points and I definitely feel better at this point. I am going to stick to this and if anything, at least I am maintaining, and for once I am not miserable. Miserable from either starving myself, completely limiting myself, or falling completely off the wagon and going back to overeating. Every day I feel like I am accomplishing something, even if the scale doesnt reflect that.

Wosnes, I am not just talking about prepackaged foods when it comes to the microwave. I am even talking about reheating leftovers. If I cant figure out a way to reheat it on the stove or in the oven, I am simply not eating it. Speaking of meat-eating diets, I figured that would be right up my alley but I didnt even last a week on that diet. I love meat but couldnt restrict myself to only meat. And I really need to find something long term, and the No S is the only thing I have ever found that really makes sense long term. I like black beans, refried beans and pinto beans. I do like soup as long as they dont have veggies or I am able to pick them out (I do cook with some veggies for the extra flavor). Please do share your recipes with me! Thats a great idea about making food taste better to eat more of it. The only veggies I will eat is corn and green beans. I cant envision making any of the others work. Honestly, I think its the texture that bothers me as much if not more than the flavor. I love spicing up foods with peppers but then I always pick mine out. The only option is grinding them up small so that I dont know they are actually there, I do that sometimes with peppers and onions. Okay and I just went back to finish reading your post to continue the reply and thats where you talked about pureeing the food. Great minds must think alike! I think that is something I could handle, as long as I can avoid the texture.

[wosnes]

Wosnes, I am not just talking about prepackaged foods when it comes to the microwave. I am even talking about reheating leftovers. If I cant figure out a way to reheat it on the stove or in the oven, I am simply not eating it. Speaking of meat-eating diets, I figured that would be right up my alley but I didnt even last a week on that diet. I love meat but couldnt restrict myself to only meat. And I really need to find something long term, and the No S is the only thing I have ever found that really makes sense long term. I like black beans, refried beans and pinto beans. I do like soup as long as they dont have veggies or I am able to pick them out (I do cook with some veggies for the extra flavor). Please do share your recipes with me! Thats a great idea about making food taste better to eat more of it. The only veggies I will eat is corn and green beans. I cant envision making any of the others work. Honestly, I think its the texture that bothers me as much if not more than the flavor. I love spicing up foods with peppers but then I always pick mine out. The only option is grinding them up small so that I dont know they are actually there, I do that sometimes with peppers and onions. Okay and I just went back to finish reading your post to continue the reply and thats where you talked about pureeing the food. Great minds must think alike! I think that is something I could handle, as long as I can avoid the texture.

I don't own a microwave -- so I reheat everything stovetop or in the oven. When I did have one, I used it as a breadbox or a place to hide food from a curious, food-loving cat.

The thing that concerns me most about your dislike of vegetables is the fact that they're so nutrient-dense, In our society, with the way our meat is grown (factory farming) it's next to impossible to get the nutrients from any other source.

I started pureeing some vegetables because of one of my daughters. She hated onions - and said it was both taste and texture, but I suspected it was texture alone. She didn't eat stuffing at Thanksgiving because it had onions. One year she decided she might like it -- so I started to make it without onions, but I couldn't imagine it without onions. So, I sauteed them until they were really soft, pureed them, then sauteed the celery in the onion/butter mixture. When she went back for her third serving, I told her what I done. I've grated them for other recipes, especially those that cook for a long time, and the onions break down to being part of the liquid.

Since the recipes take up a lot of space, I'll pm them.

[Nicest of the Damned]

The only place I ever really eat fries is McDonalds (probably one of the worst but SOO good)

Actually, not. At least they don't still use trans fat for frying, as Long John Silvers, Jack in the Box, and White Castle do (or did as of earlier this year).

Honestly, I think its the texture that bothers me as much if not more than the flavor.

I'm sensitive to food textures, too. You're not alone in that. I hope it helps you to know that.

[Nicest of the Damned]

I started pureeing some vegetables because of one of my daughters. She hated onions - and said it was both taste and texture, but I suspected it was texture alone. She didn't eat stuffing at Thanksgiving because it had onions. One year she decided she might like it -- so I started to make it without onions, but I couldn't imagine it without onions.

I make my stuffing with leeks instead of onions, and everybody who tries it says it is really good. Does your daughter eat leeks?

[Nicest of the Damned]

I just did some quick math. If you used a 7 1/2 inch salad plate (my Fiestaware salad plates are that size), it has about half the area of a 10 1/2 inch dinner plate (again, the size of my Fiestaware). Using a 7 1/2 inch salad plate for your meals would mean you were getting the same portion of meat and starch as someone doing the Half Plate Mod and filling up half of their dinner plate with vegetables.

I take a multivitamin every day, to make up for any nutrients I don't get because of my picky eating. You might want to consider doing that, too. I know it may not be as good as getting the nutrients from food, but it's better than nothing.

[wosnes]

I started pureeing some vegetables because of one of my daughters. She hated onions - and said it was both taste and texture, but I suspected it was texture alone. She didn't eat stuffing at Thanksgiving because it had onions. One year she decided she might like it -- so I started to make it without onions, but I couldn't imagine it without onions.

I make my stuffing with leeks instead of onions, and everybody who tries it says it is really good. Does your daughter eat leeks?

No, not if she can see them. They're too close to onions.

I'll have to say, she's improved a lot over the years. But onions and mushrooms are verboten unless she can't see them.

[IslandLover]

Wosnes, cheers to you for not even owning a microwave. I have never found people who understood my dislike of veggies or microwaves. Its nice to have found everyone here! I am like your daughter, never liked dressing either, and it could very well be because of the onions, celery, etc. I think I will just come have Thanksgiving at your house this year, I could never convince my family to puree anything And thank you for the recipes, I am definitely going to give things a try your way!

Nicest of the Damned, we dont even have White Castle or Jack in the Box around here, we do have Long Johns but I only eat there once every year or two. And yes it does help knowing that I am not alone anymore! I have bought multivitamins before but then would forget to take them! I used to just take everything with my birth control pill and when I stopped taking that, I began to forget about all the others

haha Wosnes, the thing is, I LOVE mushrooms, I put them in a lot of things I eat. People things its so weird that I have all these rules on things I wont eat but then love mushrooms.

[Nicest of the Damned]

I'll have to say, she's improved a lot over the years. But onions and mushrooms are verboten unless she can't see them.

Well, I guess I won't invite her over for my leek and mushroom stuffing, then...

[Sienna]

I have bought multivitamins before but then would forget to take them! I used to just take everything with my birth control pill and when I stopped taking that, I began to forget about all the others

I have this problem to. But since vitamins work the best when taken with food, I started keeping them in the kitchen with my food, and I've had much better compliance. Still miss a day here and there, but I'm definitely getting better.

But, be advised that a single multi-vitamin may not have everything you need. One of the most common deficiencies is vitamin D. But most multivitamins only contain 400 units of D, which says it's 100%, but these days they say the average person needs closer to 2000 units daily, especially if they don't get a lot of sun.

[Nicest of the Damned]

But, be advised that a single multi-vitamin may not have everything you need. One of the most common deficiencies is vitamin D. But most multivitamins only contain 400 units of D, which says it's 100%, but these days they say the average person needs closer to 2000 units daily, especially if they don't get a lot of sun.

I'd clear it with a doctor before taking any doses of any vitamin that are significantly higher than 100% of the RDA. Some vitamins can be toxic in large doses (Vitamin A and iron are examples), and it's better to be safe than sorry. All vitamin supplements are not free, and you wouldn't want to waste your money on supplements you don't really need.

This is especially true if you're on other medications. Herbal supplements and vitamins can interact in harmful ways with prescription drugs. Some drugs and conditions can affect how you metabolize vitamins, and might mean you need more or less of them than other people.

[Sienna]

I'd clear it with a doctor before taking any doses of any vitamin that are significantly higher than 100% of the RDA. Some vitamins can be toxic in large doses (Vitamin A and iron are examples), and it's better to be safe than sorry. All vitamin supplements are not free, and you wouldn't want to waste your money on supplements you don't really need.

This is especially true if you're on other medications. Herbal supplements and vitamins can interact in harmful ways with prescription drugs. Some drugs and conditions can affect how you metabolize vitamins, and might mean you need more or less of them than other people.

Thanks Nicest, I should have mentioned that above - I always sort of take it as a given that everyone discusses vitamins/supplements with their doctor.

I just figured it was worth mentioning that if you are using a multivitamin to make up for not eating all of the right vitamin rich foods, it's important to realize that a single one-size fit all multi-vitamin may not be giving you everything you need. Talking with a doctor familiar with your medical history would be the best way to figure out what you actually need. Vitamin D is just one common example.