Too many modifications?

[gk]

Hoping to find some advice from my fellow No-Ser's.....

I've just finished my first week of what seems like my 65th attempt at this diet. Monday through Friday went great. Felt great. No problems. Started my S weekend on strong legs, but by the end of the weekend, I was binging like crazy and feeling like I was at square one again.

I've often had that problem. I just have no control when it comes to the weekends. Once I have the green light, I just feel like I want to have it all, and then when it gets close to the time of being "on the clock" again, I almost feel anxious and eat even more.

I've discovered in my last two attempts at this diet that I do MUCH better during the week if I have a mod of a 4:00 snack. This past week, I've also incorporated (to start out anyway), a small sweet with my supper each night, so I supposedly wouldn't be so wound up from chocolate withdrawal by Friday that I would binge. I did feel much better at the start of the weekend, so I do think that helped. However, it obviously didn't help enough.

SOOOO.....I was pondering the thought of having a small dessert a day (probably split it in half, so I could have it at lunch AND supper) and my 4:00 snack and skip S weekends altogether. That way I wouldn't feel withdrawal, but I wouldn't go off the wagon with too much freedom on the weekends and have to start from square one every Monday.

But then I'm thinking to myself that I'm basically not doing much of a No S diet if I'm having both a snack and sweets every day!!

Just wondered if anyone out there has tried this approach at all or if any of you have any suggestions for me. I'd like to lose 10 lbs., but my focus right now is on controlling my habits. I actually don't think I'd gain with these mods just for the fact that I'd probably be eating LESS with a dessert every day versus the binges I have on the weekend (sad, but true ).

I felt so GREAT during the week....I know I can stick to this....just need to get a handle on these drastic ups and downs over the weekend. Are the S Days necessary? Can you have too many mods??

Help??????

[Who Me?]

I suspect that moderation is the key to success. If you allow small treats, that's probably healthier than gorging yourself.

My father was slim all his life. He never, ever ate snacks. It just wasn't part of his upbringing. But he had a little dessert after dinner, every single night.

[idontknow]

Have you read (or re-read) the 'Phases of No-S' sticky? This can help you to work out if you actually need a mod or if you are in a 'normal phase' - if that makes sense. Good luck

[milliem]

The 'phases of NoS' posts suggests that it's actually normal to binge on S days - at least at first. Habits can take a while to build and this should reduce over the months.

I actually found that the less sweets/sugar I consumed during the week, the less I WANTED during the week. I'm usually totally fine without - although this sometimes depends on not having them 'at hand' as it were, and whether I am sticking to my N day routine. It hasn't stopped me having sweets on the weekend, but what I eat on a weekend is probably no more than I would have previously, while also snacking and having sweets during the week.

There's nothing wrong with having a few mods to help you along - the danger is, adding them before you've really figured out whether you need them long term. Some people do use 'S events' per week rather than 'S days' with some success.

One thing I found helped on S days was to not buy so much food! If I don't HAVE an entire packet of biscuits, I won't eat a whole packet of biscuits! If I go to a nice bakery and get one large cookie, then that's what I'll eat. Yesterday I was in my local shop looking at the baked goods and couldn't quite decide between two pastries. I almost gave in to the thought of 'bugger it I'll just buy both then' but stopped myself just in time and picked one. That's a success for me!

[gratefuldeb67]

for the first year i was on NoS with my son, we made it a ritual to have S day "parties" complete with huge slurpees, nachos and cheese, ice cream etc... i have to say we really did look forward to that.. but, it lost it's appeal after a while.. nowadays, if we have an S on a weekend day, it really feels like too much if we have more than say two servings of whatever...(ice cream, cake etc...) and there's even been times when i've had to remind us to go and pick up a "small s" just so we don't miss our chance to have one.
honestly, let yourself have whatever you really want.. that splurging tendency will get old after a while. i would not suggest having treats every day, in fact i'd suggest being even more strict during the week as the less you have it, the better you will enjoy your treats on the weekend.
don't restrict yourself, but try to plan it a little bit. if you know you tend to binge, don't bring home large portions of stuff. i know certain foods are impossible for me to resist, like chips, and i can easily binge on a 8 portion bag of them... so i only get those as single portions.. also, by the way, i still lost 17 lbs the first year i was on NoS with those "party" weekends, so don't get disheartened. i wouldn't do any mods, but just try to be more conscious of what you'd really enjoy having on S days and make them a special event, not just a mindless binge, because really, it's not enjoyable to binge and you know that.
good luck.

[gk]

Thanks so much to all who replied. Your suggestions really helped me out!

I did go back and review the sticky note on the phases of no-s, which helped also.

I think I will take out my sweets during the week, but leave my optional 4:00 snack for now, trying to skip it when at all possible, hoping to eliminate it completely within the next week or two.

I do remember a moment in my first (successful) round of No S......It was Thanksgiving and I hadn't had a "real binge" since before I had started. I remember after I had eaten all that sugar I almost physically felt as if I was drunk. I was actually buzzing from all the sugar!!! Goes to show that my body was adjusting to life without it, and I didn't need near as much to have a good chocolate "fix". Looking forward to being in that place again!

Thanks again everybody!!

[Clarica]

my only question is are you trying to eat "good" food during the week, or do you get to eat what you want, as long as it isn't a sweet, second, or snack?

I only ask because changing two things at once (eating less and "better for you") at the same time is much harder than just one at a time.

If you're enjoying your meals, that's good, but if not, be careful not to tell yourself "I should be eating x" if you really don't enjoy it. Maybe try it a couple of times a year, but don't regularly eat anything you don't actually like. Enjoying your meals during the week is important because then you don't have to catch up on "eating" satisfaction on the weekend, just "sweets".

[gk]

my only question is are you trying to eat "good" food during the week, or do you get to eat what you want, as long as it isn't a sweet, second, or snack?

That's the problem....."what I want" is a sweet. I have learned from past experiences that I shouldn't lean towards the "rabbit food" too much, because that does make my binges worse. Some of my plates have been pretty heavy lately (lasagna, meatloaf/mashed potatoes, etc.) to avoid cheating.

Thanks for your post. I'll get the hang of this someday.

[Sienna]

What about incorporating sweet or fruity type things into your savory meals to help satisfy your sweet cravings without having true super sugary sweets? It usually works for me if I'm having really bad cravings.

Here's one of my favorite sweet savory recipes:

Maple-Chili Glazed Pork Medallions
http://www.eatingwell.com/recipes/maple ... lions.html

[~reneew]

Mods get me in trouble. Period .

[gk]

What about incorporating sweet or fruity type things into your savory meals to help satisfy your sweet cravings without having true super sugary sweets? It usually works for me if I'm having really bad cravings.

Back in November, when I was pretty green all month, I did notice that grapes or an orange at the end of a meal helped with craving that sweet. But I've binged so much since then, I have to work back up to that point of thinking a piece of fruit tastes like a treat. I'll get there....grumbling all the way....but I'll get there again, and then I'll be enjoying them just as much as I used to.

Thanks for your suggestion. And thanks for the recipe idea. I'll have to give it a try!

[Spudd]

I don't know if this will help you but I like to have a mint at the end of my meals. I find it gives a sense of "finishing" and also gives me a bit of sugar. I consider this exempt from the sweets policy because it is so small, and if I don't have it, I want to eat more.

[NoSRocks]

Thanks gk for posting this thread in the first place - gosh you must have been reading my mind since this issue has been bugging me quite a lot recently: should I forgo my S Days and go with a daily treat after dinner in an effort to stop my S Day free for alls????? Everyone's answers have been absolutely excellent by the way so thank you ALL so much!!! I also realized that another 'danger' of having treats after dinner on N Days - for ME anyway - would be that I'll get a taste for having sweets/desserts after dinner on N days AND still binge on S Days !!
This coming weekend my aim was not too have a mad weekend....but already I'm feeling a bit deprived. I guess it pays not to think about it too much as well and just take things as they come. Easier said than done, I know!!!

[r.jean]

I just read this thread for the first time and found it interesting. To put in my 2 cents worth:
--Mods get me in trouble too!
--For me it is Vanilla No S.
--If I feel the urge to splurge on an N day, I eat something that is allowed, like meat, mashed potatoes and gravy, corn and a fruit cocktail.
--My weekends are much more moderate as time goes on.
--The less I eat sweets, the less I crave sweets.

[wosnes]

I don't think there's a thing wrong with modifications. In fact, I think the secret to being able to maintain a way of eating is that it works for you for life. Having said that, I don't think starting out with modifications, except for medical reasons, is wise. I think one should follow vanilla No-S for 6 months to a year (or longer!) before making modifications.* Then it should be because they better suit your lifestyle instead of just wanting more sweets.

I don't think there's anything wrong with adding some sweet to your meals, though, like Sienna's Maple-Chili Glazed Pork Medallions. You can use fruit, honey or maple syrup or even sugar in dishes.

Years ago I read an article about the Chinese diet. The Chinese use a bit of sugar in many dishes as part of the belief that good cooking balances the five elements of taste: sweet, sour, salty, bitter and hot. It was hypothesized that Chinese don't crave sweets because they get a little sweetness throughout their meals.

In the past few days I've seen recipes for simply prepared meats (grilled or pan seared) served with fruit salsas. I've made one that used pineapple and mango and it was delicious.

I make my own salad dressing and the vinaigrette recipe I use includes honey. Using that same basic formula, I've made many variations of the vinaigrette and some have used brown sugar or maple syrup.

EDIT: * This doesn't mean 6 months to a year of following No-S perfectly, but 6 months to a year of consistently working at it.

[hecarte]

I just have no control when it comes to the weekends.

I'm going to qualify what I'm about to say with the information that I am an alcohol counsellor and work with people who are heavily addicted/dependant on alcohol and other drugs. I am not saying I think you're an addict or are dependant on anything, just that I saw some parallels.

You do have control over your eating, you may just feel like you don't. I find that many of my clients mistake cravings for being 'out of control'. Personally, I find that when I am having a craving for a sweet or a biscuit if I can do something else for 30 minutes - take the dogs for a walk, do some gardening, read a book - the craving goes away.

Some of my clients can make a programme of controlled drinking work for them. Others find they need to become abstinent because if they have just one drink it leads to another 20 drinks. Maybe you could figure out if you can do 'controlled' snacking like with your 4pm mod, or if you feel better able to cope if you stop sweet things altogether.

HTH xxx

[BrightAngel]

I don't think there's a thing wrong with modifications.
In fact, I think the secret to being able to maintain a way of eating
is that it works for you for life.

Having said that, I don't think starting out with modifications,
except for medical reasons, is wise.

wosnes, I agree.

[milliem]

I just have no control when it comes to the weekends.

I'm going to qualify what I'm about to say with the information that I am an alcohol counsellor and work with people who are heavily addicted/dependant on alcohol and other drugs. I am not saying I think you're an addict or are dependant on anything, just that I saw some parallels.

You do have control over your eating, you may just feel like you don't. I find that many of my clients mistake cravings for being 'out of control'. Personally, I find that when I am having a craving for a sweet or a biscuit if I can do something else for 30 minutes - take the dogs for a walk, do some gardening, read a book - the craving goes away.

Some of my clients can make a programme of controlled drinking work for them. Others find they need to become abstinent because if they have just one drink it leads to another 20 drinks. Maybe you could figure out if you can do 'controlled' snacking like with your 4pm mod, or if you feel better able to cope if you stop sweet things altogether.

HTH xxx

I'm going to agree with Hecarte here. I work as a psychologist (although not specifically for addictions of any kind) and one of the key principles that we work with is that people are in control of their behaviour. Not to say it isn't tough to change a habit; changing any behaviour that has been a pattern for a time is going to be hard.

A main theory that we work by is Cognitive Behavioural Theory (CBT) which basically states that your thoughts directly control your behaviour. Sometime physical addiction or other influences can get in the way, but most of the time it holds true.

So for example, when I decide to have a failure day, its because I tell myself 'I'm too hungry, I can't possibly hold out until dinner time' or I tell myself 'Ah one failure won't hurt'. It's then a slippery slope to 'Well I'm marking a red day, might as well make it count....' It's hard to take it on the chin that every single action I take that results in a failure is my responsibility, and directly due to what I tell myself. But knowing that is helping me make generally better decisions (most of the time).

[kccc]

CBT can be really effective. And the good thing it, when you change the way you think, the behavior (generally, eventually) follows.

A lot of people here use it (even if they don't know they are). All those "great quotes" that people adopt almost as mantras are ways to change their thinking.

"Mark it and move on" was my personal lifeline - and one that still applies to my life beyond No-S.

[NoelFigart]

milliem: I am an enormous fan of CBT. I've had a problem with depression for a lot of my life, including a hospitalization for suicidal ideation about six years ago.

Of all the medication and various therapies I've been through, CBT was hands-down the very most helpful for me. I know no one therapy works for everyone and that mental illness has a chemical as well as a behavioral component, but MAN, I have ADORED the results of CBT. I still do the worksheets when I get upset. In my own case, I've not needed meds for emotional issues for about five years, and for me the CBT techniques have kept me at least functional through things that might have sent me through depressive tailspins before.

[milliem]

milliem: I am an enormous fan of CBT. I've had a problem with depression for a lot of my life, including a hospitalization for suicidal ideation about six years ago.

Of all the medication and various therapies I've been through, CBT was hands-down the very most helpful for me. I know no one therapy works for everyone and that mental illness has a chemical as well as a behavioral component, but MAN, I have ADORED the results of CBT. I still do the worksheets when I get upset. In my own case, I've not needed meds for emotional issues for about five years, and for me the CBT techniques have kept me at least functional through things that might have sent me through depressive tailspins before.

Wow that's awesome Noel, it's really cool to hear about people who are using the techniques successfully.

I'm a massive fan of a related therapy called 'Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy' http://www.rebt.org/public/rebt.html which adds an emotional component to CBT.

[BrightAngel]

I'm a massive fan of a related therapy called 'Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy'
http://www.rebt.org/public/rebt.html
which adds an emotional component to CBT.

Noel, this is something we both have in common.
I have found REBT very helpful in my own life.